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[M][N]Holy Guardians Chapter 1 - Page 36

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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milo109
Profile Joined May 2015
466 Posts
June 04 2015 16:14 GMT
#701
On June 04 2015 16:30 scott31337 wrote:
Milo -


This looks like a "I solved the game" post which can come from either alignment, although unsure how serious he is. I saw Shining do this and got scummed for it hard when he was town though.

Unless this is a smurf, I do not see this read coming so early by his posts.


Showing anger and emotion - Mafia 101?


He doesn't quote the interesting Fidei's post but he quotes every other post from his filter above and below this. hmmm

This looks like a really wishy washy reply about Milo- And i'm not town-reading Tictock yet.

I had Milo townread yesterday by his defense to the pressure though.

Still worries me no one defending GG much.

Going to sleep now I think.


I'm still having problem with formatting which is why you see me quoting some posts and not others. Anyway.

1) That was half joking, half I solved the game. I feel like an important part of playing mafia is having confidence in yourself.

2)Not a smurf. But it's logic that I've used in video mafia before, and as VE is/used to be a video mafia player before...

3) I was angry. VE's method of accusation is uniquely frustrating.

4)Already half responded to this. My post was more of a reaction post than an analytical one.

5) Tictock: I have no idea where this kid is coming from. I disagree with most of his reads, but he seemed to have his own point of view that is consistent enough he might be town. Not my fault he can't get a hard read on me either.

Thoughts on the lynches today:

Chocolate/Templar I both believe to be town. Lynching them is a mistake. So let's look at alternate options.

My favorite is VE. He has a town circle that includes everybody except those he is OMGUSing and people already under pressure. He's done nothing this game that seems unique aside from attempts to bury me, and when that failed, Chocolate.

I wouldn't mind a Damdred or Kickstart lynch either. These two have both been saying quite a bit, but are careful not to do anything that might seem radical. I can't believe that this game is so cut and dried that you don't find any scum in people that haven't been under pressure.
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
June 04 2015 16:16 GMT
#702
Its pretty annoying half of the people keep throwing my name out for lynch but won't actually push me or try to lynch me.

So lets go if you think I'm scum male a case push me instead of half pushing
NydusHerMain
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada492 Posts
June 04 2015 16:20 GMT
#703
On June 05 2015 01:16 Damdred wrote:
Its pretty annoying half of the people keep throwing my name out for lynch but won't actually push me or try to lynch me.

So lets go if you think I'm scum male a case push me instead of half pushing


I think people are just unsure... Though I am currently voting on Templar, I'm not particularly sure who I want my final vote to be on... Everyone just seems angry and I naturally read passion as town (except Templar) so it's kinda hard.
milo109
Profile Joined May 2015
466 Posts
June 04 2015 16:28 GMT
#704
Sure.


On June 03 2015 08:05 Damdred wrote:
Firstly I don't think I have a town read on Milo, he's still null for me at this point but he is on the upper level of null.

I kinda going to put kick towards the bottom of null here.
.


This whole... upper/lower levels of null thing seem to make it easy to pressure or defend people without actually committing to a read.

On June 04 2015 01:39 Damdred wrote:
Actually there is a very large difference to you making a bad point that I'm not responding to you whip I'm not here or you are still posting. To me saying you ignored my post since it was three hours after my initial post and you decided to interact with another post on a superficial level and now you are only making a show because you got called out.


I really don't like the tone of this post. Unless you truly think your question is gamebreakingly clever, move on.


On June 04 2015 05:25 Damdred wrote:
So basically almost 24 hours in game you only have a strong opinion that 2 people are town one lean and the rest is null. Meh that post just irks me, it says a lot without actually doing much bah.


The only reads in your filter before this are the upper level null and lower level null stuff and your 'god' townread on Ritoky. By your own reasoning, you should have more.

On June 04 2015 10:27 Damdred wrote:

I'm leaving of fi now because his post was...interesting.


This is exactly what I said. -_-

On June 04 2015 10:27 Damdred wrote:
kick
templars
chocolate


Low hanging fruit of the game.

GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
June 04 2015 16:34 GMT
#705
To address a few concerns in Kickstarts accusation that actually merit me addressing, I don't know if this post didn't show up in the filter or not but it explains my townreads of both milo and fideu -

On June 03 2015 18:32 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2015 08:16 Fidei86 wrote:
On June 03 2015 07:18 milo109 wrote:
I'm not exactly sure how to defend myself here. I decided to vote because I didn't like ritoky's play style. I made it clear that it was not for reasons of reads. I cannot justify my vote in terms of reads, as I've already said. If you lynch me for that, it's fine. Actual reads so far that I can justify:
I don't like the use of the word 'Unfortunately' in Kickstart's accusation of me. It seems to be an attempt to come from the point of view of a paternal town, who only sadly pronounces judgement. It's possible that he actually feels that way, but it feels scummy to me.
I'll read Damdred town for now just based off his questioning of me. He caught my mistake of logic, while Ritoky and Kickstart both seem to just dislike my vote.
Ritoky is still null for me. Still don't like the playstyle. Still keeping my vote.
No idea on the others.


Hi all

I've read through the thread just now. I only have one thought immediately off the bat, which is that I find it suspicious that milo comes out with the "if you lynch me for XXX, that's fine". The only thing that regular townies know is that we are not mafia, and that means that the one thing we cannot do is let ourselves be lynched without giving everything first. It's possible milo just felt a bit band-wagoned, but I thought I'd point that out. @milo - I'd like to hear your reasoning for why you said that.


I also find your suspicion of milo to be very townie. I disagree with the read, but respect where it is coming from and think you are town for it.


With regards to me not putting Ritoky on my list after townreading him, it was merely a mistake. Ritoky should have been on that list of 4 town reads, bringing it to a total of 5. I find the large majority of the rest of your accusation (including these points actually which I don't consider strong even if they were correct) to be very weak.

This coupled with the fact that both you and Ticktock have both gone against me after pushing on you leads me to the conclusion that I am merely wrong on one of you.

I believe you both are still scum but doubt both of you, as a mafia team, would press back against me together. One of you is probably town and just mafia-siding with the other. I will apply the 'Chezinu rule' which scott brought up (more on this later) to determine that the more likely mafia between Kickstart and Tictock is

On June 03 2015 06:24 Tictock wrote:
@ ritoky

Ok, I'll bite

##Vote ritoky


For spamming graphics and one liners. Not even trying to push people yet, such scum.



Granted, I still think Kickstart's push on Ritoky is just as scummy. Now granted Ritoky isn't Chezinu, he has acted as a proxy 'Chezinu' this game.

My push against both Kickstart and Ritocky could be tl;dr'd as basically an intuitive 'Chezinu rule' read for their early push against Ritoky for just posting gifs.

That makes this post from Scott very interesting because I very much do not see either Kickstarts or Tictocky's play as resonant of 'Chezinu' but rather Ritoky's trolly gif-posting earlygame baited them both to scummily push against him.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486008-holy-guardians-chapter-1?page=33#644

I'm not sure how to read into Scott's alignment from this, what I believe to be a mis-analysis of the game at this point that is almost 'backwards' if you will.

I'm not really going to change my milo/nydus reads in spite of them being suspicious of me because I don't really see it as alignment indicative at all. In all of my forum-games with people I play video mafia with, there has been A LOT of 'this is completely different from his video mafia play as either alignment' so I don't really fault them for their reasons for thinking I am scummy but I don't necessarily townread them more for it either. I'm just going to stick to my initial townread on them for reasons I stated in previous posts.

More to come.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
June 04 2015 16:36 GMT
#706
On June 04 2015 15:04 ritoky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2015 14:52 scott31337 wrote:
What do you like about GG I may have missed Ritoky?
I'll re-read his filter.


The only warning sign for me was his last post where he put milo and fid in town and dropped me out of it and didn't explain why any of that really occurred. Outside of that I don't see why people are "disappointed in him" or find anything he has done particularly scummy.


I didn't drop you out of it, I merely forgot you on the tl;dr list.. Yes, milo and fid both made it on the list as well though.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
June 04 2015 16:39 GMT
#707
On June 04 2015 15:30 Kickstart wrote:
The post you just quoted was the one all of us found most suspicious, I pointed out how he just put random people in his town list without ever mentioning them before, check his filter. Also note how he just calls this and that person town based on what seems to be very little. All of that is odd to me and why my vote is on him atm, not sure how I feel about the votes stacking up on him though, makes me uneasy that people see him as an easy target, will see how it develops.


I quoted the post where I townread Milo/Fideu. It was not random, it just isn't showing up in my filter for some reason you have to manually search the thread for it.

Again honestly the only thing that is keeping me from thinking you are mafia is that I doubt both you and tictocky both push back on me like this as a team. I strongly believe one of you is mafia though because I think you are both playing extremely scummy and pushing on peopel for very weak, drawn-out reasons that spend too much time focusing on unimportant details. I encourage you if you are town to re-evaluate on the other and on myself because you're both townreading each other. I know I am town, I sincerely believe there is no way we are all 3 town. One of you is siding with a mafia pushing against another town who is pushing on you both for initially pushing on a town (ritoky).
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
June 04 2015 16:41 GMT
#708
Kick isn't low hanging fruit, chocolate is borderline depending, template maybe. But going after people who did scummy things isn't alignment indicative as you seem to infer.

not sure why me not wanting to lynch fi because you said it before makes me scum?

Totally a misrepresentation of what's going on in the thread at this point in time. In fact pretty sure I have more wouldn't lynch reads, but that's not the point. The point is that kick was giving everyone hard times about giving reads and not doing so himself and when pressed didn't even answer the questions applied to him. So how does this make me scum?

Not sure why someone ignoring questions getting called on it and only responding when he's pinged out makes me scum rather it makes me someone who cares about if his questions are followed up on.

Not sure what more you want in the first few hours of the game?

None of this makes me scum a majority of it makes me town and you neither state why it males me scum or any conclusion you bring yourself on the matter.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
June 04 2015 16:46 GMT
#709
On June 04 2015 17:37 Tictock wrote:
@ scott

My read on you had changed even before you posted your little quote + picture thing. Your a weak town lean for me atm.

My initial read on you was actually kinda null. I mentioned you might be scum since I was noticing a similarity in your posts this game to last game where you were mafia. The whole thing was a pretty weak meta read tbh. In fact having reviewed some of the post game stuff from NSM X I see that you went inactive that game due to internet issues, not anything to do with alignment.

Given that, I do need to give you a fresh read, so here I go.

First I notice you've mentioned this a couple times...
Show nested quote +
Still worries me no one defending GG much.

I kinda like your thought process here. Your saying that since nobody is even trying to defend him it suggests to you that he is Town yes?

I see one flaw in that thinking and would like to use last game as evidence. Whats to stop scum from bussing their partner? That's what your team did last game when you fell under suspicion and were not around to defend yourself.

Besides, there is one person who has been pretty outspoken about defending GG, and you just spent the last page interacting with him. Not sure how you missed ritoky saying this...
Show nested quote +
As for what I like, look at his filter. To me he highlights all but maybe 1 or 2 of what I thought were the most important posts in the first 20 pages and gives an opinion/read on them. He comments on kickstart's opening, he comments on SL/TT interactions, he properly reads me town, he comments on kickstart being bullish, he comments on nydus' entry, and then he addresses the questions posed to him after he catches up. It just reads as town reading the thread and commenting on stuff he finds relevant.

The bolded part is just me picking at Nits again. I find it odd that ritoky throws in a subtle "I'm town" in the middle of his read on GG. Still his overall points aren't too bad, and even has me rethinking my own position a little.

I'd still like to hear from GG himself though. It really does bug me that he'd scum me early on then ignore my reactions to it. Him asking me to restate my response didn't help, kus it also tells me that he isn't willing to do his own reading + Show Spoiler +
this is a trend I've noticed in this community that REALLY bugs me. Reading is super important in forum based Mafia, if you can't be bothered to do it, imho, you shouldn't be here. It looks like GG might be new here, so maybe I'm overreacting.


This has me questioning just how much you yourself are paying attn to this game. I'm not going to scum you for not having 100% perfect reading retention or comprehension though.

Actually the whole interaction I saw between you and ritoky looked pretty good. This question to Kick was great,
Show nested quote +
Who would you be willing to lynch beyond GG, Kickstart?

That tells me that even though you're scumming GG you are looking beyond him as well. That is great town thinking imo, scum would just focus w/e target they pick and try to get others to do the same no?

I also like how you pointed out that my "read" on milo there was kinda bad. I don't really like the term "wishy washy" I think it's one of those political terms that attacks indecisiveness, but w/e you have a point. I was giving milo some benefit of the doubt for being new here and was mostly saying I need to see more from him to get a solid read.

Thus far I'm not super impressed with him. He's a slight scum lean to me. I poked him a little when I was interacting with ritoky to see what he would do. Mostly I saw him deflecting and not wanting to get pulled into the discussion there. I did find it interesting how me mentions that he doesn't agree with GG being a good lynch.

Actually...
@milo
Care to expand on your thoughts on GG?


I really hate Kickstart's play this game if he is town because I think it's like super scummy, but just based on how the game has gone I think there is no way you can both be mafia and this post you made right here reads scummier than Kickstart's which i would have to attribute to misguided town at this point.

You already have Kickstart's support at this point and both want to kill me. Why openly start doubting him now as a town? I think you are worried about losing the 'pocket' you have on him so you are intentionally expressing fake 'distrust' in an attempt to continue projecting town.

You end your post simply concluding again that you continue to like your 'ally' though and think he is town for 'looking elsewhere in the game besides templar' for pushing scum on milo. I think it was all just very fake.

Plus it lines up with the Chezinu Rule (which, again, I feel Scott misused here as Ritoky noted, but that it can be used as an accusation against Ticktock more accurately)
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
June 04 2015 16:47 GMT
#710
Town:
Ritoky
Fideu
Milo
Nydus
Suckslywhateverhisnameis
Kickstarter

Mafia:
Tictock

##Vote: Ticktock
milo109
Profile Joined May 2015
466 Posts
June 04 2015 16:48 GMT
#711
On June 05 2015 01:41 Damdred wrote:
not sure why me not wanting to lynch fi because you said it before makes me scum?


You used the -exact- same wording. Just weird.

On June 05 2015 01:41 Damdred wrote:
The point is that kick was giving everyone hard times about giving reads and not doing so himself and when pressed didn't even answer the questions applied to him. So how does this make me scum?


The point is that you were doing the same. Hypocrisy is often scummy.

On June 05 2015 01:41 Damdred wrote:
None of this makes me scum a majority of it makes me town and you neither state why it males me scum or any conclusion you bring yourself on the matter.


My conclusion is that you're third on my lynch list. You could be wishywashy town, or you could be mafia.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
June 04 2015 16:50 GMT
#712
I would like Scott's thoughts on my analysis of why the 'Chezinu rule' which he spent a great deal of thought on this game applies and points to 'Tictock' as scum pushing on Ritoky-Chezinu, not myself as scum pushing on Tictock-Chezinu.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
June 04 2015 16:51 GMT
#713
I am now officially caught up to the thread and it is the weekend for me and I died in my other forum game so I will have more time to contribute to this one.
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
June 04 2015 16:52 GMT
#714
There's actually not much wishy washy in my play?

Its not hypocrisy when I'm not screaming at people and demanding reads.... Making an observation on someone doing that isn't the same thing.

I don't actually believe you believe anything you say
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
June 04 2015 16:54 GMT
#715
GG postings aren't horrible hrm.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
June 04 2015 16:54 GMT
#716
Also, the main reason I don't really have a read on VE/chocolate is I just don't find their interaction very meaningful or useful at all with regards to solving their alignment. In reading the thread it just didn't stick or to me or seem interesting at all. I would like to see their thoughts on myself/tictock/kickstart interaction and of damdred's vs scott's analysis of it.

While I was unable to really discern either damdred's or scott's analysis from their content regarding me/tictock/kickstart, I believe they have spent a lot of time focusing on it. One of them is probably mafia as well tbh.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
June 04 2015 16:55 GMT
#717
Although I am much less sure of one of them being mafia than I am that Tictock is probably mafia.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
June 04 2015 16:56 GMT
#718
Rather I should say, I am much more confident that there is one mafia in Tictock/Kickstarter (which I determined to be Tictock and towncleared Kickstarter as a result) than I am that there is one mafia between Scott/Damdred. I wouldn't really be surprised if they were both town but I refuse to believe both Tictock/Kickstarter are town).
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
June 04 2015 16:57 GMT
#719
Anyways the content has stopped I will stop rambling now.
GGTeMpLaR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States7226 Posts
June 04 2015 16:58 GMT
#720
You should all vote on Tictock though.
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