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marvellosity (filter) is co-hosting this game. Questions can be directed towards either of us.
Promethelax will be coaching scum GMarshal and Iamperfection will be coaching town Please feel free to use your coaches, they'd love to help you and make you better!
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXVI + Show Spoiler [Important Posts] +
Introduction: Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play.
Rules: Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to):
- Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information.
- Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town or literally claim scum.
- Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role.
- Posting screenshots of anything.
- Posting any PM you received in connection to this game.
- Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip.
- Signing up more than once using smurf accounts.
- Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits.
- Sharing accounts with other players unless cleared by the host in advance. Otherwise, only you may post on your account.
Posting: Activity: You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be warned or modkilled at host's discretion.
Mod Font: This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Question Font: This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. If you don't want to ask your question in the thread then feel free to PM host/cohost and then you don't have to use this font. If you ask about something that's already in the thread then expect snide remarks to accompany your answer.
Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason ever. Editing will result in a warning or a modkill at host's discretion. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again if you really have to edit anything.
Spam: Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here. This also means you should condense your posts when possible. 15 one-liners in 30 minutes is unacceptable.
Inappropriate posts: If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Flamewheel, or Mig before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally.
I'm going to warn you if you're being excessively unpleasant towards other players. If you disregard my warning then I'm going to modkill you. This is not DotA2.
Reporting posts: The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, cohost, flamewheel, or Mig before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions: Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Smurfs: No smurfs.
Play to win. This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM your host if you need to leave the game.
You have been warned.
Out of thread communication: It is common for mafia to use a medium outside of TL such as QuickTopics or IRC or Skype to communicate during the game. Please be mindful that other players may be more tech savvy than you and they may attempt impersonate members of your team or attempt to infiltrate your chat. You use these media at your own risk.
Voting rules:
- Voting is done in this thread. You cannot PM me your vote.
- Please vote in the following format: ##Vote: Qatol. Votes not done in the correct fashion may not be counted. Vote counts will be updated whenever intermittently.
- No conditional voting.
- You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game.
- In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins (or loses).
- You may vote for a No Lynch in the format: ##Vote: No Lynch
- Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
Signups: This game is open to players with 3 or fewer games on this forum.. Signups will remain open until the game is full. I might let you join if you have more than three games but they were played a very long time ago. Type /in to play.
Game-specific rules: Modkills: This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM flamewheel or post in the Ban List.
Replacements This game uses replacements. If a player is modkilled then they will be replaced by a player on the replacement list if possible.
Clues: There are no clues anywhere.
PMs PMs are not allowed in this game.
Time Cycle: This game will follow a 48 hour day/24 hour night cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark (that is any votes after 00:00 GMT (+00:00)) will not count. Currently the deadline is 01:00 GMT (+00:00), but that may be subject to change. Actions/votes will be accepted up to the posted time, but not after. (00:59 GMT (+00:00) is fine but not 01:00 GMT (+00:00)).
Credits: Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer. Thanks to everyone who helped balance this game. Thanks to cohost. Thanks to coaches. Thanks to players.
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I will not compensate for ignorance!
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Setup Information
Overview This game is using 2of4.The setup is a semi-open setup for 9 players; that is, all the possible roles are given but the number of each is not known. Not all of the roles will necessarily be present. The game is inherently balanced for both sides depending on the types and numbers of roles that appear. The maifa win when they outnumber the town or they reach a scenario when this becomes inevitable. Town wins by eliminating all mafia members. Mafia kill power is always 1. All role PMs are samples and may not be the actual wording you receive.
ALL FLAVOR IS MEANINGLESS, EXCEPT FOR FUN! If you find the role PM you receive ambiguous, PM Marv or myself or check the Mafiascum link above for the roles and their descriptions.
Town Roles
Vanilla Town + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] +You only have one power, although it is the most powerful of all! You vote and win with town, by eliminating any threat to the town
Harry Lockhart (Cop) + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] +You are a private investigator in training (Cop) who happened to get hired as an actor through chance. Once per night you follow someone around as "practice" (once per night/every night) and will receive back either guilty or innocent.. You vote and win with town, by eliminating any threat to the town
"Gay" Perry (Jailkeeper) + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] +You're a seasoned private investigator (Jailkeeper) who is constantly getting clients. As such you may choose one person to follow and question (once per night/every night, excluding yourself) and you will protect them from 1 KP and prevent them using any role they might have. Neither you nor your target will be informed of successful saves. You vote and win with town, by eliminating any threat to the town
Harmony Lane (Doctor) + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] +You might not be a PI, but that doesn't mean you don't try to help! Unfortunately, when you try to help people get hurt. As such you've taken to just driving hurt people to the hospital(Doctor). You may choose one person to protect other than yourself (once per night/every night) and you will protect them from 1 KP. Neither you nor your target will be informed of successful saves. You vote and win with town, by eliminating any threat to the town
Mafia Roles
Mustard (Mafia Goon) + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] +You are Mustard (Mafia Goon)!. There's really nothing special about you, except that you do the dirty work for your boss, since he doesn't like to get his hands dirty. Your team can kill one person per night by choosing one of you to carry out the deed. You win when the mafia outnumbers the town. You may talk to each other at any time in private by any means you wish; for your convenience, a QT has been provided at (link)
Mr. Frying Pan (Mafia Rolecop) + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] + You're Mr. Frying Pan(Rolecop)!. You're Harlan Dexter's right hand man. You do all the kidnapping. As such you may target one person per night, revealing the role of whoever you target (vanilla town, cop, doctor, jailkeeper).Your team can kill one person per night by choosing one of you to carry out the deed. You win when the mafia outnumbers the town. You may talk to each other at any time in private by any means you wish; for your convenience, a QT has been provided at (link)
If there are any questions about the setup, they may either be PMed to me or posted in the thread in bold green text
+ Show Spoiler [Setup Notes] +
One person on the mafia team may carry out the kill each night. The mafia can choose not to kill. The mafia can kill each other. If the mafia member chosen to kill on a particular night is roleblocked, no kill will occur. A mafia member may use his ability and kill in the same night.
There are no hit notifications in this game.
All roleblocks will result in the target being notified.
VT's will not receive flavor names in their role pms.
The Players
- cDgCorazon (Filter)
- Warbaby (Filter)
- AFKing(Filter)
- Slayalot(Filter)
- SkaPunk(Filter)
- Sn0_Man(Filter)
- acid~(Filter)
- zarepath(Filter)
- glurio(Filter
+ Show Spoiler [Flips] +SkaPunk the Vanilla Townie was lynched D1 Warbaby the Doctor was lynched D2 Zarepath the Vanilla Townie was shot N2 Glurio the Mafia Rolecop was lynched D3 Slashdot the Mafia Goon was modkilled D3 for failing to vote Sn0-Man the Cop survived AFKing/Cakepie, Acid~, and cDgCorazon the Vanilla Townies survived until endgame
Town Wins!.
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Newbie-specific stuff
- It's already in the rules, but remember, no editing. If you feel you must correct your post, please make a second post to clarify your statements. You may put EBWOP ("Edit by way of post," a handy acronym invented by semioldguy) at the beginning of your post to indicate that you are clearing up a point you made. If your EBWOP post is several posts after your original, please quote your original post in your EBWOP post for the sake of clarity.
- Only sign up if you know you will have the time available to properly play the game. It is essential that players remain active in a newbie game, so only /in if you are able to play to your fullest.
- If there is any sort of issue, you are unsure about some mechanic, or you are just wondering if your devilish scheme is even allowed, feel free to PM me, or ask in-thread with green text. Don't feel shy; these games are meant to be a place to learn and be open.
- Behave as gentlemen (or ladies). Things get heated here, but personal attacks will not be acceptable, and will be dealt with accordingly. Remember, this is a game; have fun and happy scumhunting!
- Please do not talk about any ongoing games either in-game or pre-game. This can affect other games and is unacceptable. Please do not refer to outside-of- thread activity of players in this thread.
- If you receive coaching, don't tell town about it.
- glhf!
Useful Guides
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Game Status/Updates
None yet.
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you need coach? Me coach real good.
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Sure do you want scum or town?
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let him coach scum i coach town
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Phone posting so I don't really want to edit it with all the code but done, I'll update it after work.
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fuck yeah! Imp you going down!
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Are smurf allowed in this game ? I'd like to play in a newbie for a change ^^
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On January 15 2013 11:18 Djodref wrote: Are smurf allowed in this game ? I'd like to play in a newbie for a change ^^
Wouldn't playing around in the pregame satisfy those trolly urges and be probably more rules compliant? With less drastic consequences when obvious bound to happen happens.
Ohhhh, right ..... sry. oops. my bad. wrong tab honest injun.
+ Show Spoiler +Who said that.... Who said what? Eeek! Fuck No...... Which who said, "who said that", because it wasn't the me that said, "Who said what?". Nope being smurf would make me go actually antecedent batty. FYI That was me impersonating a Kush smurf impersonating a noob in XXXIV. For your viewing pleasure the original unravelling starts here, where the string starts to unravel fast. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17518507
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Lol.. does this mean the infamous Axle was also "le smurf"?
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Pretty sure axle is just axle, no smurf there ^^ He does speak a bit clearer these days though... hrm
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/in
Haven't been active on TL lately (or much at all really) but I'm really interested in trying Mafia.
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my punishment is to be demoted to newbie games again oh no /in
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On January 15 2013 13:05 Mocsta wrote: Lol.. does this mean the infamous Axle was also "le smurf"?
NO
This is very very focussed specific question
Please be very very careful as I will now reference an ongoing game. But the specific words in it are about me a non participant in the game so i think its OK. Please think very hard about any ramifications before replying before that game ends. If someone else knows the answer feel free to say. (by PM if required)
In that game Newb XXXV you use the words "famous AxleGreaser."
What leads you now to use the words infamous. Note i am not offended. I want to know what exactly when why you changed your mind on that status.
Depending on the information source you may need to answer after your game. I will WAIT... I do want an answer so I ask while these words are fresh in your mind.
At the risk of splattering yet more crap around this rumor ...
No I am not smurf. of any experienced player here. I am also not smurf with/of player here but that is technically more challenging question for hosts or GM that might require R1CH level skills. That meaning of that latter technical difficulty is why I was so careful how i said hello tot he hosts when I signed up. That may concern you so just so go with I AM NOT A SMURF there is no unfairness in the games I play ever. The games are fun cheating is just fucking Lame. and the hosts of your games know it trust them to have your best interests and my RL privacy at heart. If they dont know it they can PM me and I will explain it individually.
its cool, its(yours) a real question, this is the answer.
edit: fixed some plurals and antecedents.
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On January 15 2013 18:14 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 13:05 Mocsta wrote: Lol.. does this mean the infamous Axle was also "le smurf"? NOThis is very very focussed specific question Please be very very careful as I will now reference an ongoing game. But the specific word in it are about me anon participant in the game so i think its OK. Please think very hard about any ramifications before replying before that game ends. If someone else knows the answer feel free to say. (by PM if required) In that game Newb XXXV you use the words " famous AxleGreaser." What leads you now to use the words infamous. Note i am not offended. I want to know what exactly when why you changed your mind on that status. Depending on the information source you may need to answer after your game. I will WAIT... I do want an answer so I ask while these words are fresh in your mind. At the risk of splattering yet more crap around this rumor ... No I am not smurf. of any experienced player here. I am also not smurf with/of player here but that is technically more challenging question for hosts or GM that might require R1CH level skills. That meaning of that latter technical difficulty is why I was so careful how i said hello tot he hosts when I signed up. That may concern you so just so go with I AM NOT A SMURF there is no unfairness in the games I play ever. The games are fun cheating is just fucking Lame. and the hosts of your games know it trust them to have your best interests and my RL privacy at heart. If they dont know it they can PM me and I will explain it individually. its cool, its a real question, that is the answer. LOL.. .is this must be generated from a English -> Chinglish -> English Google translator.
P.S. Congrats on recognising the (in)famous distinctions.. Thats impressive haha
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I have this theory that axle is really fucking smart and just laughs at us as we carry on being not smart.
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Mocsta: LOL.. .is this must be generated from a English -> Chinglish -> English Google translator.
Well thats pleasant distraction of an insult, followed up by a complement. Good play..?
Mocsta: P.S. Congrats on recognising the (in)famous distinctions.. Thats impressive haha
@mocsta So when and why did you change the subtle distinction from Famous to (in)famous, and based on what new information?
That is the question, is this English simple enough?
+ Show Spoiler + BTW apologies tot he community for the impudence of this question, it twanged a recognition nerve. it is probably nothing, but I am going to shake the tree and see what falls out. So far evasion.
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On January 15 2013 18:37 DarthPunk wrote: I have this theory that axle is really fucking smart and just laughs at us as we carry on being not smart.
I found a quote on here recently that is seemingly highly appropriate.
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
I suspect you have an hypothesis (not a theory), based on incomplete data, and even that is incongruous with the reality of my win rate or the accuracy of my recent reads.
[edit this para a fair bit.] I do laugh a lot but way more often at me, cos to me I am funnier(more peculiar) than you, but that is probably because i know more about me than you. Besides laughing at people who or because they are less than you is mean. :P I am not mean.
If you tell me more about yourself I will try to laugh at you more often. Fair? edit: actually it wasnt fair what I meant its tricky little sucker of a thought. If you tell me more about yourself I will try to laugh with you, at you, more often. Fair?
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
I love that Axle is grilling someone pre-game ^^
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On January 15 2013 14:36 kushm4sta wrote: my punishment is to be demoted to newbie games again oh no /in
Not funny.
Welcome to TL mafia warbaby. If you have any questions about rules or anything feel free to ask. Don't be afraid to use our lovely coaches
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On January 15 2013 21:25 marvellosity wrote: I love that Axle is grilling someone pre-game ^^
Shut up and get your archon back
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Thank you Stutters! I do have some minor questions about the setup. The ms C9++ wiki includes the possibility of a single mason (innocent child). Is that true for this game? I'm also a little confused since the wiki does not include JK and miller in C9++. Can JK be 1-shot like cop/doctor/vig?
I realize I have a lot more basic stuff to learn before worrying about minutiae like this. After reading the OP and a few guides/game analyses, these are the only points that aren't 100% clear.
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On January 16 2013 05:04 warbaby wrote: Thank you Stutters! I do have some minor questions about the setup. The ms C9++ wiki includes the possibility of a single mason (innocent child). Is that true for this game? I'm also a little confused since the wiki does not include JK and miller in C9++. Can JK be 1-shot like cop/doctor/vig?
I realize I have a lot more basic stuff to learn before worrying about minutiae like this. After reading the OP and a few guides/game analyses, these are the only points that aren't 100% clear.
I'm not the host, but the op says:
"all the possible roles are given but the number of each is not known. Not all of the roles will necessarily be present."
So all the roles in the game come from the list provided in the OP. You just know which ones or how many of each there may be.
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On TL we use miller instead so innocent child. This set up doesn't use one shot roles besides vig.
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On January 16 2013 05:35 Promethelax wrote: On TL we use miller instead so innocent child. This set up doesn't use one shot roles besides vig.
OK, but...
On January 15 2013 05:35 Stutters695 wrote: Some of the roles may have limits on the number of times they may be used.
"Some" indicates more than one... If what you say is correct, then the OP should be changed to specify that only vig may be 1-shot, especially since standard C9++ can have 1-shot cop, doctor, and roleblocker.
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Edit: Oh and Warraby please dont let this pre game banter be worrying, the game does and can get a bit in your face while playing and in some sense, seeing the good humor of it all now, may make that actually easier to understand. If in the game the headlights/spotlight /focus of discussion come on and you feel like you are getting grilled be calm, and that is an excellent time to talk to your coach... again because you already had spoken to your coach several times.... but meh dont listen to me I am noob too, so who should you listen to....ding!!! I know ask your coach who you should ask .... seriously. Pls?
Oh sweet, its cool you're not virgin noob like i was. Still talk to your coach anyway.
I might :| now.
On January 15 2013 21:25 marvellosity wrote: I love that Axle is grilling someone pre-game ^^
Yeah time to get out my old sig....
but, but, He trolled me first.... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17532669 :{
I was just flopping around on the beach.. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17532589 + Show Spoiler +if anything iw as rubbing salt in the smurfs wounds?
It is not my fault he didnt know he would "need a bigger boat" ooh look more infamy.... go me. sigh.
Ahhh but i do see a point this pre game of game I am technically eligible to play in.... (as i am not smurf :) + Show Spoiler +(honest injun, BTW is that racial slur (or even non PC) in the US?)( this telling the truth thing, is seriously powerful where most people apparently start at nah thats WIFOM)
/obs
+ Show Spoiler + Sorry Mocsta that was not pre game maneuvering for "control" of town.
it was a question. Just a question.... do you have an answer? I understand it may be hard to remember I only just remembered what you said a few days ago was different to what you just did and the discrepancy is in some sens slight even if it reverses in some sense the meaning. Is it for instance your contention you dont know why you said either? (If so word of advice, being sure you know the intention of what you say, is a good thing in Mafia,... )
In the past you described me as Famous, and just recently as (in)famous
What new insights or information lead to this change of status. + Show Spoiler + Do note i did the math this is positive sum game out here. Approx 9/16 of the time if we are in the same game we are both town, and 1/16 we are both scum (rough in that I did the math with replacement using 75% town as a guess) Whatever its is more than 50/50 we would be on the same team so you helping me get better out of game is explicitly in your best interests in game.... even purely from a greedy point of view. personally Id like my opponents to get better even more as it is the challenge not the winning that is fun.
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Thanks Axle, I will definitely try to use my coach as much as possible. I feel like I have a decent grasp on the rules and mechanics, but that's far from being able to actually play skillfully.
The only thing I'm worried about right now is that it could take a while for this game to fill up!
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On January 16 2013 06:52 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 05:35 Promethelax wrote: On TL we use miller instead so innocent child. This set up doesn't use one shot roles besides vig.
OK, but... Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 05:35 Stutters695 wrote: Some of the roles may have limits on the number of times they may be used.
"Some" indicates more than one... If what you say is correct, then the OP should be changed to specify that only vig may be 1-shot, especially since standard C9++ can have 1-shot cop, doctor, and roleblocker.
You are right actually and I am wrong. There can be one shot uses of other roles. This is based on a more standard c9++ than we usually use.
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On January 16 2013 08:36 warbaby wrote: Thanks Axle, I will definitely try to use my coach as much as possible. I feel like I have a decent grasp on the rules and mechanics, but that's far from being able to actually play skillfully.
The only thing I'm worried about right now is that it could take a while for this game to fill up!
it will probably get a significant boost when the previous nooby ends. Quite a few of those are still low game count players.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX GAK: deletia on ongoing game status info. So mmmmm on anything you see Ok?
However a quick check by yourself that you keep to to yourself... will let you determine when that one may or may not ever end. (yeah never end is a not a likely outcome... but as its an ongoing game I am Sergeant Shultz and so "I know nuffink" + Show Spoiler [for the younguns, who also cant use go…] +
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axle, why haven't you joined this game? I really wanna see you play again. You have done a pretty good job of figuring out how mafia works and I would love to see it first hand!
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
he's going to play in LIX
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I know that, doesn't stop him playing here too. I want the joy of Axle back in my life!
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On January 16 2013 05:04 warbaby wrote: Thank you Stutters! I do have some minor questions about the setup. The ms C9++ wiki includes the possibility of a single mason (innocent child). Is that true for this game? I'm also a little confused since the wiki does not include JK and miller in C9++. Can JK be 1-shot like cop/doctor/vig?
I realize I have a lot more basic stuff to learn before worrying about minutiae like this. After reading the OP and a few guides/game analyses, these are the only points that aren't 100% clear.
I like this guy already ^^
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On January 16 2013 09:35 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 05:04 warbaby wrote: Thank you Stutters! I do have some minor questions about the setup. The ms C9++ wiki includes the possibility of a single mason (innocent child). Is that true for this game? I'm also a little confused since the wiki does not include JK and miller in C9++. Can JK be 1-shot like cop/doctor/vig?
I realize I have a lot more basic stuff to learn before worrying about minutiae like this. After reading the OP and a few guides/game analyses, these are the only points that aren't 100% clear. I like this guy already ^^ Personal coach Djo will take care of this one.
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On January 16 2013 09:19 Promethelax wrote: axle, why haven't you joined this game? I really wanna see you play again. You have done a pretty good job of figuring out how mafia works and I would love to see it first hand!
So Sign up for LIX.... I have been working on my campaign speech to not be elected mayor for several days.
yes i have (Axle'ized) policies (I think, they still need polish) and a speech with the express intention of being sure I am not mayor. (Being mayor (the three votes bit) directly contradicts the probable effectiveness of the policies... So I should not be!) (you had better have your reason not to be mayor lined up or I am gunna vote you, or marv or whoever does not step back far enough.) yes I have tldr versions of the policies for those that cant or wont read.
Are you sure about this estimate? "You have done a pretty good job of figuring out how mafia works"
I thought I was still much closer to figuring out exactly how Mafia does not work... Soon as I can achieve 100% inaccuracy with my reads where upon i plan to invert my Meta and pwn.
Finally a moral my father told me... about false senses of security, be careful when I ask questions... the first two are fine... watch out for the third. (except as this is now advanced mafia it might be the fourth... depends how deep a hole i think I need you to dig before I fill it in on top of you. Mwahh <3 & XX
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On January 16 2013 10:29 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 09:35 Djodref wrote:On January 16 2013 05:04 warbaby wrote: Thank you Stutters! I do have some minor questions about the setup. The ms C9++ wiki includes the possibility of a single mason (innocent child). Is that true for this game? I'm also a little confused since the wiki does not include JK and miller in C9++. Can JK be 1-shot like cop/doctor/vig?
I realize I have a lot more basic stuff to learn before worrying about minutiae like this. After reading the OP and a few guides/game analyses, these are the only points that aren't 100% clear. I like this guy already ^^ Personal coach Djo will take care of this one.
If he rolls mafia, I'm going to teach him how to flood the thread with setup speculation
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On January 16 2013 09:26 Promethelax wrote: I know that, doesn't stop him playing here too. I want the joy of Axle back in my life!
yeah yeah?, fap fap?, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Joy_of_Sex get a room?
Re: "I know that, doesn't stop him playing here too." This does tho... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17495931 "lest we forget" CC, who died that we might learn from his mistakes...
hey LIX has one spot left you wann see me play up close and personal.... go go go
Remember i learned how not to play by learning from the history of others mistakes. I wasn't just funning around when I said that.
I am still in for galaxy AND LIX I am hoping to able to pull out of what doesnt start first Caller games are caller games, they seem to start on the never never and stall perhaps for months. but if you don't in early you might well sleep through the start... hence I in'd for LIX but, not really, two games at once... Even if LIX promises not to be super trolly. It sill wont be small, as with fewer trollies there would be more posts that need reading for reals?
besides what the hell would noob make of me if I now with an extra 100+ hours reading of games and went in full bore. 1 noob was justifiable, I had no frickin clue... but if I played another now I think I'd feel like Kush should. I am happy to play in LIX and get pwned. Do me good. perhaps If still have no idea in LIX I will come back for some coaching... I still theoretically have two noob ins after LIX if *I* decide *I* need them. So it seems like plan to me. Especially the LIX first bit. besides no more peeking, you wanna see my game, play....
LIX meh shit will happen townies will lynch things, usually themselves, and mayhem will ensue through just and unjust recriminations and reprisals, and thus a good time will be had by all.
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I just don't have the time or the energy to deal with another big axle. At one point in the last one it was me and half the scum team talking and no one else. I'm taking a break from playing after mtg. I just don't need to get all riled up over a game. With stutters in YAN it was all in good fun but I am quite mad at some of the players in lviii and the fact that they did not get even one game bans makes me want to sit out a few myself for my own sanity.
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/coach coach I will coach all the coaches on how to coach
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Axle is a wise man. He should coach life.
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On January 16 2013 11:40 Promethelax wrote: I just don't have the time or the energy to deal with another big axle. At one point in the last one it was me and half the scum team talking and no one else. I'm taking a break from playing after mtg. I just don't need to get all riled up over a game. With stutters in YAN it was all in good fun but I am quite mad at some of the players in lviii and the fact that they did not get even one game bans makes me want to sit out a few myself for my own sanity.
Cool, its sentiment i can sympathize with and i was not playing, but the urge to lynch some of them was so strong I nearly voted anyway... nah but geez i wanted to. Half the people I wanted to Lynch so bad flipped townies, but that felt like a pretty good rate and i was never sad when someone i had wanted to lynch flipped townie.
sit in obs drink a few, margaritas and watch me try to get even for LVIII.... well maybe not... just try not to drown in troll gizzards. I have a vorpral +6 defender trolls are easy pickins. (oops wrong tab)
I "will play one for the Gipper" and at the very least try to win a moral victory from the high ground...
Rules and bans just mean the too clever people skate the lines and moral people speak the truth and eat it.
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On January 16 2013 08:59 Promethelax wrote: This is based on a more standard c9++ than we usually use. Got it. I like this setup. No offence to the setup you usually use.
On January 16 2013 09:35 Djodref wrote: I like this guy already ^^ BFFs?
Thanks for the warm welcome, folks. I can't believe I was ignorant of this sub-forum for so long. That Twitch video Palmar made where he calls people dumb for 1h40m has to be one of the most awesomely stupid things I've ever seen (two thumbs up).
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On January 16 2013 15:19 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 08:59 Promethelax wrote: This is based on a more standard c9++ than we usually use. Got it. I like this setup. No offence to the setup you usually use. BFFs? Thanks for the warm welcome, folks. I can't believe I was ignorant of this sub-forum for so long. That Twitch video Palmar made where he calls people dumb for 1h40m has to be one of the most awesomely stupid things I've ever seen (two thumbs up).
Wait can I get a link to that?
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11589 Posts
Acro posted it in one of the stickies as the last post in the thread.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On January 16 2013 15:19 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 08:59 Promethelax wrote: This is based on a more standard c9++ than we usually use. Got it. I like this setup. No offence to the setup you usually use. BFFs? Thanks for the warm welcome, folks. I can't believe I was ignorant of this sub-forum for so long. That Twitch video Palmar made where he calls people dumb for 1h40m has to be one of the most awesomely stupid things I've ever seen (two thumbs up).
And he caught scum with it, and forced me to bus my scumbuddy... very effective :>
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On January 16 2013 20:16 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 15:19 warbaby wrote:On January 16 2013 08:59 Promethelax wrote: This is based on a more standard c9++ than we usually use. Got it. I like this setup. No offence to the setup you usually use. On January 16 2013 09:35 Djodref wrote: I like this guy already ^^ BFFs? Thanks for the warm welcome, folks. I can't believe I was ignorant of this sub-forum for so long. That Twitch video Palmar made where he calls people dumb for 1h40m has to be one of the most awesomely stupid things I've ever seen (two thumbs up). Wait can I get a link to that?
http://www.twitch.tv/palmarlol/b/346981846
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On January 16 2013 23:26 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 20:16 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On January 16 2013 15:19 warbaby wrote:On January 16 2013 08:59 Promethelax wrote: This is based on a more standard c9++ than we usually use. Got it. I like this setup. No offence to the setup you usually use. On January 16 2013 09:35 Djodref wrote: I like this guy already ^^ BFFs? Thanks for the warm welcome, folks. I can't believe I was ignorant of this sub-forum for so long. That Twitch video Palmar made where he calls people dumb for 1h40m has to be one of the most awesomely stupid things I've ever seen (two thumbs up). Wait can I get a link to that? http://www.twitch.tv/palmarlol/b/346981846
That was actually pretty insightful to watch someone who knows what they're doing discuss their reads like that. I'd probably watch more of that sort of thing if it existed.
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Hapa promised to make some videos in the past. I'm not sure if anything came of them though.
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On January 17 2013 04:53 Promethelax wrote: Hapa promised to make some videos in the past. I'm not sure if anything came of them though. He said that in XXXV iirc. Nothing came of it. (Nothing I'm aware of, anyways.)
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Yeah, that is what I'm talking about. I'll send him a pm and ask about it.
Edit: town newbies, totes never use you coach. That is actually considered cheating and he is a meanie poopoo head. + Show Spoiler +by which I obviously mean you should use your coach or coaches, they are invaluable and you'll never get a better chance to talk to someone who cares about you personally. Make sure to call iamperfection 'Imp' its his pet name
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/in (First game ever)
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On January 18 2013 05:23 Slayalot wrote:/in (First game ever)
Use your coach!
Did you sign up on tl just to play mafia?
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On January 18 2013 05:47 Clarity_nl wrote:Use your coach! Did you sign up on tl just to play mafia?
Well. I've been on TL since they started uploading broodwar replays. But never made a profile.
I'm a teacher, and I've thought about playing mafia with my 9th grade. So Im here to try the internet version out, thus gaining exprtience
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forum and irl mafia are vastly different. Not to dissuade you, I just think you should be aware of that fact.
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On January 18 2013 23:57 Slayalot wrote:I'm a teacher, and I've thought about playing mafia with my 9th grade. So Im here to try the internet version out, thus gaining exprtience
I played Mafia at summer camp, around 6th grade age IIRC. It was an absolute blast.
However, I seem to recall seeing an article about a teacher that got in some hot water for playing Mafia with their class. The parents assumed it was a gang-violence-glorifying game invented by Griselda Blanco or something. I hope the parents in your district aren't this obnoxious; just something to keep in mind if you're going to play a game that has students "lynching" each other
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I too played once irl, though I was in grade eight if memory serves, I think it would be a great game to bring to a school room with some minor changes. Probably go for the alien invasion name with abductions Instead of deaths. No one can argue with abductions.
I hope you all utilize your coaches to our fullest. We are donating our time to make you all good players. Feel free to pm your coach about any and everything, at worst he will tell you that he can't answer you. Get out and use the guys who know what they are doing who want you to know what you are doing.
Best of luck one and all. I hope you have tons of fun. If you have questions in the pregame feel free to pm your hosts or the coaches and we'll do what we can to help.
<3
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On January 19 2013 06:49 Dandel Ion wrote:With coaching, you too, could be as good as Prome! OH BABY + Show Spoiler +
They too could get mislynched day one. TT
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Welcome Slay/Ska. I'll edit you guys into the op when I get off work.
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What is the different names of the irl "mafia" games?
I would like to read about the rules there aswell.
I think Ill end up with a hybrid game. Because all our pupils have ipads, so they could vote through that.. Also. That would avoid the game "stopping" for the town people, every time it's night time. (And prevent the peeking/cheating)
Could this be done? I know which app to use for voting, and annonymous communication.. But I dont know enough about the game itself
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I'm in my third mafia game right now, and I'm wondering if I can /in this one. My first mafia game was Newbie Mini Mafia III, and took place almost exactly one year ago. I didn't play again until Newbie Mini Mafias XXXIV and XXXV. Can I /in, or should I just /obs?
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On January 23 2013 00:51 zarepath wrote:I'm in my third mafia game right now, and I'm wondering if I can /in this one. My first mafia game was Newbie Mini Mafia III, and took place almost exactly one year ago. I didn't play again until Newbie Mini Mafias XXXIV and XXXV. Can I /in, or should I just /obs?
you're quite welcome to /in this game.
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more than halfway full!
Greetings SkaPunk, Sn0_Man, Acid~, and zarepath. I've enjoyed observing your play in Newbie XXXV (excepting SkaPunk of course). Hopefully this game won't have any smurf replacement/modkill drama!
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/in
Don't think I've played mafia in over a year... Excitd to play again!
Edit: Just checked my PM's, and my last mafia game was TL Mafia LII: JubJub mafia
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On January 23 2013 06:11 warbaby wrote:more than halfway full! Greetings SkaPunk, Sn0_Man, Acid~, and zarepath. I've enjoyed observing your play in Newbie XXXV (excepting SkaPunk of course). Hopefully this game won't have any smurf replacement/modkill drama! Modkills are up to your activity levels but I'm going to get IP checks before we start.
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On January 23 2013 06:11 warbaby wrote:more than halfway full! Greetings SkaPunk, Sn0_Man, Acid~, and zarepath. I've enjoyed observing your play in Newbie XXXV (excepting SkaPunk of course). Hopefully this game won't have any smurf replacement/modkill drama!
I now realize that all this time, we'd been playing in the spotlight. If I had known, I would've kept my pants on.
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Updated. Four more to go. Welcome everyone.
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filters bro, add their filters.
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3 of them are not in bold.
So bias
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I'm phone posting 75% of the time. Waiting til closer to the start to knock it all out at once and add some flavor.
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United States22154 Posts
Throw me in as a town coach.
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Oh god. My boys are fucked.
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On January 24 2013 09:41 Stutters695 wrote: I'm phone posting 75% of the time. Waiting til closer to the start to knock it all out at once and add some flavor.
How do you phone post? I can't find TL Mafia on my iPhone, both on the internet and the TL app.
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Umm..
i normally acccess it by going to teamliquid.net -> forum -> other gams -> TL Mafia
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Wow, #'s are real short.
I can /in if you need a player, otherwise /obs (not fussed)
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Aren't you in your 4th now moc? If not you can join. Unless we get some sign-ups before 5pm I'm going to switch this to a 2 of 4 setup and we'll get this going today or tomorrow. I'll add you as a coach when I get home from school Marsh.
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On January 25 2013 01:54 Stutters695 wrote: Aren't you in your 4th now moc? If not you can join. Unless we get some sign-ups before 5pm I'm going to switch this to a 2 of 4 setup and we'll get this going today or tomorrow. I'll add you as a coach when I get home from school Marsh.
What is a "2 of 4 setup"?
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I was postponing my signup since I'm still going to be fairly busy for the next week or so and the roster wasn't filling up, but if you guys are moving to a 9P setup then I'll just /replacement
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Added some flavor. If I don't hear back from everyone by 7:00 KST (17:00 EST, 23:00 CET) tomorrow (26 hours from time of this post) we'll switch back to a c9++ if there is interest. S
We need one more player if anyone wants to join
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I am in my 4th now. Its cool I only offered because #'s were short to help out
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Bump, we need one more newbie to start!
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I'd play if you have me. /in
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well everyone else has confirmed for starting today and you're obviously here so roll pms will go out soon and the day post will be up at 8pm est.
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On January 26 2013 08:49 Stutters695 wrote: well everyone else has confirmed for starting today and you're obviously here so roll pms will go out soon and the day post will be up at 8pm est.
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role pms are out. If you did not get one for some reason pm me asap. Game will be starting in thirty minutes. If you haven't already posted for the obs qt and want it pm me.
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Day 1
Day 1 has begun! You have 48 hours until the lynch.
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I'd like to get this flawless town victory started by suggesting some ideas to promote a healthy town atmosphere:
- No lurking! Personally I'm not yet decided on Lynch All Lurkers, but it sounds like a decent idea.
- Post succinctly. Don't ramble about your personal life. Don't post a stream of consciousness... coalesce your ideas before you post.
- Don't be needlessly aggressive. Pressuring scum to get information is great, being a jerk for no reason is not.
GLHF everyone
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I never quite know what to say at the beginning of a game of mafia. So some things I've learned from my last two games are:
- Have a clear, consolidated vote on Day 1 so you can more easily pressure and read mafia participation - Don't be lazy in your analysis, and take the effort to examine the people you're NOT certain are mafia, not just the ones you think you ARE certain about
I'm going to a coworker's wedding tomorrow evening and then Sundays I'm barely available at all. So my Day 1 participation is not going to be great, all told; apologies in advance. Hopefully I'll be able to participate enough, and productively enough, to persuade I'm pro-town. It's typical of my meta that I start off slow for the first day or so and then pick up once the data starts rolling in.
I don't find anything wrong with warbaby's post. I personally really dislike needless aggression, and I think that hurts the town environment far too often.
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On January 26 2013 11:16 warbaby wrote:I'd like to get this flawless town victory started by suggesting some ideas to promote a healthy town atmosphere: - No lurking! Personally I'm not yet decided on Lynch All Lurkers, but it sounds like a decent idea.
- Post succinctly. Don't ramble about your personal life. Don't post a stream of consciousness... coalesce your ideas before you post.
- Don't be needlessly aggressive. Pressuring scum to get information is great, being a jerk for no reason is not.
GLHF everyone
I like your points warbaby, they're right on the spot of things we don't want to do.
I would like one more to those:
Don't get confirmation bias. Explore all possible options before voting, and make sure your vote is serious. In my opinion, a vote should not be used to get information about someone unless they have been called out for lack of activity before. A FoS (finger of suspicion) is sufficient enough when first pressuring someone for information. I'm all fine with pressure voting for someone after you've given them the FoS or some other sort of warning, but if you are going to vote, make sure you mean it. It will show the town that your vote means business, instead of trivial matters that could be solved without voting.
That was really long, but you get the picture.
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On January 26 2013 11:16 warbaby wrote:- Don't be needlessly aggressive. Pressuring scum to get information is great, being a jerk for no reason is not.
Dunno, aggressive behaviour is important IMO so long as its not too confirmation biased blah blah.
Gotta put pressure on scum, make em crack.
Either way, I won't be around for the first lynch since I'm gonna be out of town at a concert, so I'll make sure to have a vote in before it comes to that.
Currently, my plan is to lynch a lurker, but in a smaller 9-person game this might be less of an issue (not sure).
GLHF
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It's a fine line to walk, but I'd rather be too mean and lynch scum than too nice and lose. Sometimes being a "jerk" is the perfect way to extract information, because they way the person reacts can be a tell of their alignment.
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You're both right that aggression is useful for scumhunting when applied logically. It's also useful for crapping up the thread and distracting attention away from scumbuddies. We can deal with that when/if it happens.
Acid~, your first post in XXXV was a lot more useful.
On January 26 2013 14:31 Acid~ wrote: It's a fine line to walk, but I'd rather be too mean and lynch scum than too nice and lose. Sometimes being a "jerk" is the perfect way to extract information, because they way the person reacts can be a tell of their alignment.
My original post said "being a jerk for no reason"; scumhunting is a good reason. Snoman already made this exact point. Is there a good reason you made this rather pointless post?
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See, I wanted to make a similar post warbaby, but I wondered if maybe letting him dig a deeper hole wouldn't make more sense, as opposed to letting him know that he sounds scummy. However, I suppose if everybody just hung back and observed other's play we would end up with... nobody playing.
Either way, I expect substantially higher quality posts from Acid, and that particular one sounded a LOT like "hey look at me I'm getting in my post, hopefully I sound generically townie" from a scum perspective. Something about the post just sounds hollow.
Eh, its not enough to make judgements at this stage. To be fair to acid, his methods were pretty aggressive (and rightly so) last game, so defending that method of play makes sense.
Meanwhile: We need more posts overnight if I am to have any chance of making an informed vote before I disappear. I probably won't be able to post much later than 8-10 hours pre-lynch so posts and content PLEASE. There are only 9 people so it's pretty easy to see who is and isn't lurking.
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On January 26 2013 11:16 warbaby wrote:I'd like to get this flawless town victory started by suggesting some ideas to promote a healthy town atmosphere: - No lurking! Personally I'm not yet decided on Lynch All Lurkers, but it sounds like a decent idea.
- Post succinctly. Don't ramble about your personal life. Don't post a stream of consciousness... coalesce your ideas before you post.
- Don't be needlessly aggressive. Pressuring scum to get information is great, being a jerk for no reason is not.
I'm not sure what to write in these games yet. But as a few people have also said. The above "guidelines" from warbaby is a really good idea. Lurkers will most likely get my vote. And furthermore I think that writing nonsense to fill up the chat (really mean online trick btw) is just as bad as lurking, and I will be watching out for that aswell.
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On January 26 2013 15:03 warbaby wrote: You're both right that aggression is useful for scumhunting when applied logically. It's also useful for crapping up the thread and distracting attention away from scumbuddies. We can deal with that when/if it happens.
Acid~, your first post in XXXV was a lot more useful.
I also had four or five pages of thread to analyze, it's illogical to expect the same kind of post when there's not even half a page yet. Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 14:31 Acid~ wrote: It's a fine line to walk, but I'd rather be too mean and lynch scum than too nice and lose. Sometimes being a "jerk" is the perfect way to extract information, because they way the person reacts can be a tell of their alignment. My original post said "being a jerk for no reason"; scumhunting is a good reason. Snoman already made this exact point. Is there a good reason you made this rather pointless post?
Why would you assume I automatically agree with Snoman, especially without knowing either of our alignments?
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EBWOP: four or five pages more of thread to analyze, obviously.
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On January 26 2013 20:59 Acid~ wrote: I also had four or five pages of thread to analyze, it's illogical to expect the same kind of post when there's not even half a page yet.
Why didn't you wait until there were 5 pages to review in this game before posting, then? Nobody forced you to make a 2 sentence post that sounds like a scum trying to blend in. Your assertion here is appears reasonable, but in fact this is a lame excuse.
On January 26 2013 20:59 Acid~ wrote: Why would you assume I automatically agree with Snoman, especially without knowing either of our alignments?
I assumed you agreed with snoman because you literally made the same point as snoman, just worded differently. Snoman also said some more stuff, which I feel contributed to the thread. What I think about your alignment is irrelevant to whether you made a quality first post, so I interpret this as a strawman.
I'm still willing to believe I'm misinterpreting your posts. Please explain how you were contributing to the thread or why you felt the need to make such an effort-lacking first post (breaking with your recent town meta). If you were literally just being lazy, and felt the need to post something, then say so. If you felt you actually did contribute something that hadn't been said already, then I'll just have to take your world for it.
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Eh, I don't think his post is that big of a deal -- perhaps after seeing how he behaves the rest of the day, the post will mean something.
How do you feel about LAL, Acid?
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EBWOP: Remove the first occurrence of "is" in my 3rd sentence. Replace "world" with "word" in the last sentence.
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Hey new game first post from me. Lots of old faces, ill definitely will try to be more active this time around.
My stance to LAL is: that we should first try to lynch scumreads -> scummy lurkers -> lurkers.
Is it possible to move the deadline to 8:00 KST? 10:00 KST is 2 AM here if my timezone converter didn't lie to me. Will be pretty hard for the europeans to be here i think.
I'll be on a big birthday party later this evening so don't expect me to be active. Sunday evening i should have a lot of time on my hands though. Till then ill try my best to squeeze some playing time in!
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Glurio, I agree with your stance on lynching lurkers. While a non-contributing town is essentially playing for scum (and as such may be modkilled), lynching a lurker is better than no-lynch. At least that's what the coaches told me.
I also agree with Zarepath, to an extent. Acid's first post was not a big deal blatant scumslip or anything (I don't dispute his original point). I found Acid's second post was unsatisfactory, though, which casts even more doubt on him in my eyes.
I'm really displeased with the level of activity so far. Every time zone has had a reasonable chance to post, game start time was not a surprise. There's no excuse to lurk.
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Just make sure you guys don't use metas from old games too much. Mocsta wasted half a day in NMMXXXV by voting for me just because he could not tell whether my scum play or my town play are the same or different. (I feel like they are the same on the outside, but if you look hard enough than you could probably find a lot more holes in my logic if I was scum than town).
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For the record, we still haven't heard anything from:
Skapunk Abenson AFKing (fitting name)
These three need to start posting before I (and perhaps to a greater extent, we) write you off as not needed by the town.
Lurkers don't help our cause, and if we can't find anyone scummy D1, I'd be totally down for LAL.
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On January 27 2013 01:27 cDgCorazon wrote: Just make sure you guys don't use metas from old games too much. Mocsta wasted half a day in NMMXXXV by voting for me just because he could not tell whether my scum play or my town play are the same or different. (I feel like they are the same on the outside, but if you look hard enough than you could probably find a lot more holes in my logic if I was scum than town).
EBWOP: It was NMM XXXIV, sorry.
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On January 26 2013 22:31 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 20:59 Acid~ wrote: I also had four or five pages of thread to analyze, it's illogical to expect the same kind of post when there's not even half a page yet. Why didn't you wait until there were 5 pages to review in this game before posting, then? Nobody forced you to make a 2 sentence post that sounds like a scum trying to blend in. Your assertion here is appears reasonable, but in fact this is a lame excuse.
Because there was a discussion going on where two people had stated their opinion on an issue and I wanted to chime in with mine. I feel that's a perfectly valid reason to post.
Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 20:59 Acid~ wrote: Why would you assume I automatically agree with Snoman, especially without knowing either of our alignments? I assumed you agreed with snoman because you literally made the same point as snoman, just worded differently. Snoman also said some more stuff, which I feel contributed to the thread. What I think about your alignment is irrelevant to whether you made a quality first post, so I interpret this as a strawman.
Are you dense or just vomiting words for the sake of it? You couldn't know my position until I mentioned it. If you think it's not valuable to know where people stand on issues, why the fuck would you make your first post specifically about issues?
I'm still willing to believe I'm misinterpreting your posts. Please explain how you were contributing to the thread or why you felt the need to make such an effort-lacking first post (breaking with your recent town meta). If you were literally just being lazy, and felt the need to post something, then say so. If you felt you actually did contribute something that hadn't been said already, then I'll just have to take your world for it.
And I'm not willing to believe you're doing anything but cluttering the thread with nonsense at this point, whether it's intentional or not.
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Acid~, I take your response to mean you do feel that your posts were productive so far. I think it's interesting that you defend yourself by attacking me personally. I'm not the only one making this case against you.
You're right, though. I'm done discussing this if you are.
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I'm here ready for this awesome game. Acid is mad already!
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On January 27 2013 02:30 warbaby wrote: Acid~, I take your response to mean you do feel that your posts were productive so far. I think it's interesting that you defend yourself by attacking me personally. I'm not the only one making this case against you.
You're right, though. I'm done discussing this if you are.
After reading pages 5,6,7 over a few times - I can't find anyone els who is "making a case against him". So what exactly do you mean? From my perspective, you are the only one attacking Acid. And in a kind of aggressive way.
I'm not saying that makes you a scum, but I don't think it's wise to make people afraid to post. If you can extract that much information from what Acid has written so far, you are either damn good at this game, or just very interested in pointing a finger at someone.
Also. SkaPunk. your post doesn't count as a real post to me . You're still a lurker in my eyes. You're gonna have to write some more. What are you going to contribute with, for day 1 ?
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On January 27 2013 03:16 SkaPunk wrote: I'm here ready for this awesome game. Acid is mad already!
Big first post...
Assuming you are new, I'll let you know that there are some expectations regarding the content and volume of posts that you contribute. That one doesn't really qualify under content considerations.
However, this is the Acid I'd much rather play with, to be honest. He is a bit heavy on the personal insults in his arguments but the emotion is tough to fake and his analysis (once there is something to analyze) is pretty spot on.
At the moment I can draw a LOT of parallels between warbaby and mocsta last game (and that coach claim looked really scummy WB. Really scummy).
I'd like other peoples thoughts on WB's town/coach claim.
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On January 27 2013 04:17 Slayalot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 02:30 warbaby wrote: Acid~, I take your response to mean you do feel that your posts were productive so far. I think it's interesting that you defend yourself by attacking me personally. I'm not the only one making this case against you.
You're right, though. I'm done discussing this if you are. After reading pages 5,6,7 over a few times - I can't find anyone els who is "making a case against him". So what exactly do you mean? From my perspective, you are the only one attacking Acid. And in a kind of aggressive way. I'm not saying that makes you a scum, but I don't think it's wise to make people afraid to post. If you can extract that much information from what Acid has written so far, you are either damn good at this game, or just very interested in pointing a finger at someone. Also. SkaPunk. your post doesn't count as a real post to me . You're still a lurker in my eyes. You're gonna have to write some more. What are you going to contribute with, for day 1 ?
I mentioned I thought acid's first post was a low-contribution one that a scum could make if they wanted to LOOK like they were doing stuff.
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Snoman, I was trying to scumhunt. Mocsta tried to look like he was scumhunting in XXXV. It makes sense that there would be parallels. And yeah, Acid~ seems to be acting much more himself now
You're right that me mentioning coaching like that could look scummy. This was a indirect way of saying "I am town". I don't think claiming town is scummy D1 -- it basically means nothing -- but doing it indirectly could be interpreted as an attempt to be sneaky and implant suggestions or something. I promise you I am not that sneaky.
I think my (stupid) coach claim is a valid point of scumhunting discussion, though. So please have at it. Maybe it will give the remaining lurkers something to talk about.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
Hi everyone. Please don't mention any coaching you may or may not receive. This means I'd rather no-one talks about the fact that someone has done so either. Thanks!
On January 15 2013 05:36 Stutters695 wrote:Newbie-specific stuff [*] If you receive coaching, don't tell town about it.
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On January 27 2013 04:17 Slayalot wrote: I don't think it's wise to make people afraid to post. If you can extract that much information from what Acid has written so far, you are either damn good at this game, or just very interested in pointing a finger at someone.
I wanted to point a finger at someone, I would have done so, by declaring FoS. I did not because my case against Acid~ was weak. I was surprised by his initial roundabout answer, so I followed up with some pressure. He then furnished the answer I was looking for, so I backed off.
I want to make it clear that I never once claimed Acid~ was actually scum. Making this claim in a newbie game based on meta over a single post would be ridiculous.
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On January 27 2013 04:17 Slayalot wrote: I'm not saying that makes you a scum, but I don't think it's wise to make people afraid to post.
I don't think Warbaby has done that. It take a lot of work to create an environment where people are afraid to post. Attacking one person does not create such an environment. What happened with Acid is just friendly sparring on D1.
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EBWOP: If I wanted to point a finger
I'm really sorry, for breaking the guidelines. I'll do my best to follow them properly going forward.
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Well this is really moving along...
On January 27 2013 04:52 warbaby wrote:Snoman, I was trying to scumhunt. Mocsta tried to look like he was scumhunting in XXXV. It makes sense that there would be parallels. And yeah, Acid~ seems to be acting much more himself now I don't think claiming town is scummy D1 -- it basically means nothing -- but doing it indirectly could be interpreted as an attempt to be sneaky and implant suggestions or something. I promise you I am not that sneaky.
A) "trying to scumhunt" is a bit rich at this stage. You are/were both trying to take control of town. And you are using the same methods. Additionally, trying to scumhunt and trying to look like you are scumhunting are 2 very different things, and should be reasonably distinct.
B) Overt town-claims are scummy as hell. Real town doesn't need to claim, their actions speak louder than their words.
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On January 27 2013 10:20 Sn0_Man wrote:trying to scumhunt and trying to look like you are scumhunting are 2 very different things, and should be reasonably distinct.
I don't agree. If someone pretends to scumhunt convincingly, they should appear to be the same as someone who is actually scumhunting. Just because Mocsta pretended effectively (for a while) in XXXV does not mean I'm doing the same thing.
The way I see it, the only thing I can do to further address your other concerns is to play solid town, without being overly aggressive and feeding into your criticism. This seems reasonable so I'll give it a shot, unless you have a better suggestion, or some direct questions for me.
Your point B is not possible for me to address further. You've made your point here, I gave my explanation before I realized I had broken the rules. Can we leave it at that?
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On January 27 2013 10:45 warbaby wrote: I don't agree. If someone pretends to scumhunt convincingly, they should appear to be the same as someone who is actually scumhunting. Just because Mocsta pretended effectively (for a while) in XXXV does not mean I'm doing the same thing.
Playing aggressive is Mocsta's style. He did the same aggressive town play in XXXIV. That is a read on his meta, and doesn't mean that it is a scum or town tell.
So yes, you are right. On both points.
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On January 27 2013 01:30 cDgCorazon wrote: For the record, we still haven't heard anything from:
Skapunk Abenson AFKing (fitting name)
These three need to start posting before I (and perhaps to a greater extent, we) write you off as not needed by the town.
Lurkers don't help our cause, and if we can't find anyone scummy D1, I'd be totally down for LAL.
Well. 23 hours later, and these three still have not made a single useful post.
Damn lurkers...
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Sn0man can you explain in more detail what's scummy about me claiming town? I believe claiming town is at worst a null read. I think we can discuss this without breaking the rules.
Why are you attacking me because I claim to be scum hunting? Trying to discourage scumhunting is scummy.
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Town has no need to claim town, they ARE town. Actions speak louder than words. Town claims only make sense from a scum perspective, because scum need to look townie and/or not get lynched.
I'm not attacking you, and I'm not discouraging scumhunting. I'm discouraging town-claims (HI GUYS I"M TOWN CUZ I SAID SO. THAT MEANS YOU SHOULDN'T LYNCH ME), and I'm discouraging attempts to take over town by people who I don't have a town read on yet.
Either way, I'm also posting in the hopes that my posts will spark any kind of input whatsoever from the people who have yet to pipe up. If its like this ~12 hours from now I'll be forced to vote a lurker.
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[B]On January 27 2013 04:18 Sn0_Man wrote: At the moment I can draw a LOT of parallels between warbaby and mocsta last game (and that coach town claim looked really scummy WB. Really scummy).
I'd like other peoples thoughts on WB's town/coach claim.
Mocsta never straight up claimed town, so could I assume the parallel you're now drawing is that my trying to control town makes me scum because Mocsta did it, and he was scum in XXXV?
I think that's a totally legitimate point, although if I was trying to control town it was not really on purpose. Nobody should be controlling town unless there is a mayor power role, and then you should lynch the mayor immediately. Every town should be thinking for themselves.
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Btw, I'm also noting how you guys haven't payed attention to anyone else's posts and are only focusing on your little "who has a larger penis" competition.
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Corazon, nobody but you, SkaPunk, Slayalot and Sn0man and myself have been posting for the last 13 hours. If you go back 18 hours, you could include glurio and Acid, whom I both responded to. SlayAlot and Sn0man both posted implying I could be scum, so I focused on responding to them.
SkaPunk has posted basically nothing, as Sn0man pointed out. You have posted useful lists of lurkers that I'd also love to see contribute. But there's not a lot one can say in response to a list of lurkers or a single sentence post that was called out by someone else already.
Implying I've been tunneling people is not accurate. I've responded to or commented on everyone who posted anything of substance in the thread, as of now.
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In response to your two posts that weren't lists, Corazon, I agree. Confirmation bias is bad and using meta is iffy at best, especially in a newbie game. Thank you for these contributions.
Unless anyone has any questions for me, I'll try to shut up for a while.
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The problem is that while you and SnO were having your back and forth, I made comments about both sides of the arguments, and they were basically ignored.
I'm most likely not going to vote either of you unless something really incriminating comes out, so perhaps we should vote for a lurker D1. Thoughts?
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My suspicion of you has slightly faded warbaby. I just wanted to put a little pressure on you, since you already had your nose stuck out.
Im partly writing this to let new players know, that just because 2 people are implying that someone could be scum, they shouldn't make this cloud their jugdement. (That's called jumping on the wagon/bandwagon, and it's a dangerous thing to do - cause the wagon could just as easily have been started by scum). At least that's my understanding of the word / theory.
To the less active people: Start posting. The longer you wait, the more you start to look like scum. If no scum gives themself away for the next xx hours, we will be forced to kill the guy who hasn't posted anything (or the guy that only has made 1 welcome post).
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While i really didn't like warbabys town claim thingie, i doubt it's inherently scummy. His pointing fingers in every direction does remind me of mocsta in the last game, though. And i kinda fell for it so i'll be a bit more suspicious this time around!
Right now i agree with corazon, lets focus on other people:
On January 27 2013 03:16 SkaPunk wrote: I'm here ready for this awesome game. Acid is mad already!
I'd like to put this a bit more into the spotlight, yea slayalot and sn0 already said he should contribute a bit more, i agree. He really needs to put something forth. Since hes here and ready for this awesome game...
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I'm surprised everyone's forgotten about how little I'm contributing!
Warbaby, Mocsta did claim town when he said something like, "How do you think I can contribute so much and so freely? Because I'm town and have nothing to hide." That was Day 1, BTW.
Don't "shut up for a while." That's not town-motivated. Think about who else you'd like to pressure. If you shut up every time somebody criticizes you for pressuring them, that's not going to go super well.
Yes, SkaPunk, Acid is "mad" already. Last game I assumed that meant he was scum, because his first posts were blazing guns posts, but I think he just likes to throw his weight around to see how others respond. (He was town btw.) But metas don't necessarily mean everything so feel free to keep looking for scumminess there; I don't see it yet.
Corazon, I very much think we should vote for a lurker Day 1. There's little reason to vote for an active player, IMO, on such a small amount of data. My reads are all very close to null at this point on everyone.
As I mentioned earlier, Sundays are by far my busiest days. I will check in on the thread here and there, but I feel like I need to put a vote down now in case I can't. So I am going to LAL today, and pick the one with the most lurker name:
##Vote: AFKing
Should he contribute by the time I next check back in, I'll re-evaluate.
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On January 27 2013 21:17 zarepath wrote: Don't "shut up for a while." That's not town-motivated. Think about who else you'd like to pressure. If you shut up every time somebody criticizes you for pressuring them, that's not going to go super well.
Great point. I'm offering to cool my jets (for now) because I think sn0man has a legitimate complaint about controlling town. I totally don't agree with sn0man that scum hunting D1 is "rich", though. Would he prefer scum get a free pass D1? I would like others' take on this. Maybe there's someone else that sn0man would allow to scumhunt, without accusing them of being a Mocsta doppelganger?
I didn't forget about you. You were manner enough to explain why your contributions were going to be thin D1. And the posts you are making are good.
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Also, I'm with Glurio.
##Vote: SkaPunk
SkaPunk has demonstrated that he is in fact capable of using the post box. Maybe if we pressure him some more, he'll actually contribute.
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Alright, well I'm leaving in about 5 minutes and won't be back before lynch deadline, so I have to vote now.
Clearly AFKing and SkaPunk are the 2 least active players by a wide margin, and while SkaPunk did make a post, it really doesn't count as such. I'll vote for him in the hopes that AFKing's first post is worth something... or doesn't happen if you get my drift.
##Vote: SkaPunk
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Don't forget about abenson. I will be around for lynch, so my vote is by no means permanent.
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I'll cover that base WB.
##Vote: Abenson
If these are the three mafia their coach must be ridiculously annoyed.
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To keep the discussion going along:
Do you guys think that town/scum claims (not blue claims) have any effect on your opinion of the person whatsoever?
To me, claiming town/scum is a null point. Anyone can do it.
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On January 28 2013 03:59 cDgCorazon wrote: I'll cover that base WB.
##Vote: Abenson
If these are the three mafia their coach must be ridiculously annoyed.
I will certainly not be annoyed if we lynch a lurker and they flip scum. I don't think this will happen D1 though, due to the scum team's information advantage. Going by statistics it's most probable one of the 3 lurkers is scum, if one assumes lurkers are evenly distributed.
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Is it just me, or is this game going to end very badly, with 2-4 modkills on day 1? There are 5 hours left, before day 1 ends? Im not good at time-zones but the game started the 26th at around 10:00.. Now it's 28th and 4:42... Yes?
And if I'm not mistaking there are 2 afk people. And skapunk's oneliner. Furthermore it's bedtime now, in europe..
Or maybe people wait till the end with their post/vote???
Anyway.. I don't think I will have the chance to change my vote, so I will have to vote on the information so far.
##Vote: Skapunk
At the time you made your first post, you knew our stands on lurking and writing pointless posts, yet you wrote 1 line. That is either the most stupid thing ever done, or you simply dont care about this game. Either way, I dont see how you can contribute to finding scum. If you write within the next 5 hours, and clear your name, I wont have the option to change my vote ( as I will be asleep )
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Well there's a 1/3rd chance that we lynch the right player if we LAL today. So there's not much to lose on a lurker lynch.
I really hope that all three of them aren't mafia, because if they do not vote and get modkilled (I hope I'm not breaking a rule by saying that) there are some scary players waiting in the replacement section if they're all mafia.
Just theorycrafting. Hosts let me know if I broke any rules by speculating about it.
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Hey i'm at work now (i work nights). I'm usually able to play, but there are some nights when the wifi doesn't work or i'll have my hands full. So i'll cast my vote just to be sure.
##Vote: SkaPunk
He posted but his post was useless, could have at least said if he thought LAL is a good idea and that he's busy rest of the day.
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I'm considering switching my vote to AFKing or abenson. SkaPunk did at least post once. And it appears that the idea of pressuring him into posting more is not working, so far.
I will be so happy if SkaPunk, AFKing, or abenson would post something. You could pick something someone said, that you agree or disagree with, and add a few sentences explaining why you feel that way. I promise I won't attack you (at least not today, and not at all if your posts are good).
On January 28 2013 05:08 cDgCorazon wrote: Well there's a 1/3rd chance that we lynch the right player if we LAL today. So there's not much to lose on a lurker lynch.
I really hope that all three of them aren't mafia, because if they do not vote and get modkilled (I hope I'm not breaking a rule by saying that) there are some scary players waiting in the replacement section if they're all mafia.
Just theorycrafting. Hosts let me know if I broke any rules by speculating about it.
There is a 1/3rd chance, if you assume scum is evenly distributed among the lurkers. I'm not sure this is a totally valid assumption, although it probably makes more sense than all of the lurkers being scum.
Who are the replacements? The only one I could find is cakepie.
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Well Mocsta might be interested too...and that would be scary as well.
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Please stop discussing modkills/replacements. If they break the activity rule I'll look for replacements, in the meantime play like normal. Thanks.
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I think that it's out of character for Corazon to be speculating so severely as to the hypothetical spread of mafia among lurkers and the possibilities of replacements. And to knowingly break rules and ask for mods to tell him he's breaking a rule instead of just looking it up when he's unsure if he's breaking the rule or not.
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Vote count!
AFKing (1) Zarepath SkaPunk (4) Warbaby, Sn0-man, Slayalot, glurio Abenson (1) cDgCorazon
SkaPunk is set to be lynched! You have two hours to the deadline and voting is MANDATORY.
Sorry about the formatting, phone posting.
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##Unvote: SkaPunk ##Vote: abenson
By glurio's metric, we should lynch scum, then scummy lurkers, then lurkers. If SkaPunk's single post was a scum trying to blend in then he's the worst scum ever. My (very weak) read on him is that he's town, but playing with extremely little effort so far. Pressure is apparently not getting a rise from him. Maybe he's not reading the thread, but one would really expect scum to put up some kind of defense when they're 2 hours (is that right?) from being lynched. So I'm going to vote for an actual 100% lurker.
I like that Corazon didn't vote for SkaPunk. If Cora was scum, there's a chance he would have just bandwagoned SkaPunk right off the bat. So I'm voting with Cora. The same applies to Zarepath, but Zare's been less active than Cora so I feel it's a bit riskier voting with Zare (in case AFKing suddenly steps up his game).
Speaking of pressuring people to get a rise from them, what the heck happened to Acid~? He defended himself from my bullshit aggression, then ignored Zare's question about LAL and peaced out.
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Someone being obviously scummy Day 1 in a newbie game and yet still being scummy is not unheard of; in my last two newbie games, the two most scummy lurkers were scum all along, but we jumped off of them both times because we were sure they couldn't be THAT scummy on purpose.
Just saying.
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important PSA: Should have caught this sooner so it's my fault. Abenson isn't playing. He was replaced with Glurio. As such any vote for Abenson that remains at the deadline will be treated as a vote for a no lynch. Sorry about that, fixed the filter so it is glurios now
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##Unvote: abenson/glurio ##Vote: AFKing
Zare you do have a point. SkaPunk's still going to be lynched as it is, though.
I don't think Cora being unsure about the rules was odd. The rules state "Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game." but don't mention discussing replacements. Anyway, I won't argue with stutter's request to not discuss this stuff.
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##Unvote ##Vote: SkaPunk
Well now that we have been advised that the guy I just voted for isn't playing, I really think that there isn't much choice between the three candidates for lynching. However, posting one random post and then not posting at all is slightly more scummier to me than not posting at all. A scum would be more likely to post and then take advantage of 2 other people not posting to fly under the radar than they would be to not post anything at all.
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On January 28 2013 09:20 zarepath wrote: Someone being obviously scummy Day 1 in a newbie game and yet still being scummy is not unheard of; in my last two newbie games, the two most scummy lurkers were scum all along, but we jumped off of them both times because we were sure they couldn't be THAT scummy on purpose.
Just saying.
Exactly what i thought about. Won't let myself get swayed this time and will stick to Ska.
He clearly knew he was in the game, and we gave him enough time to post again.
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Times up! (Flavor to be edited in later)
SkaPunk, the Vanilla Town has been lynched.
It is now night one. You have 24 hours. Please send night actions to both Marvellosity and myself.
I'm working on what to do with the no-voters.
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Well, the chances of us getting a scum D1 were zero. I'm gonna relook over the day's events and let you all know if I find anything of importance.
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Acid~ made one post out of three that was characteristic of his normal play, and his final lack of action is very surprising. I think this is important.
Sn0man and SlayAlot didn't waste much time voting for SkaPunk after I did. SlayAlot called me out for over aggression one minute before Sn0man called me out for playing like scum Mocsta and claiming town. Does anybody think these sequences of events are important?
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On January 28 2013 10:22 warbaby wrote: Sn0man and SlayAlot didn't waste much time voting for SkaPunk after I did.
I'd also like to point out that Sn0, SlayAlot, and Glurio all voted after you and cited that they wouldn't be at the deadline. They voted for the person who looked like was going to be lynched.
I would like to say that you really did blow things with Sn0 out of proportion. It wasn't tunneling, but you got very aggressive with him just because he disagreed with you. I'm just curious why you decided to argue with him just because he disagreed with you.
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Well, I disagreed with Sn0 that claiming town is "really scummy WB, really scummy". IIRC you actually backed me up on my assertion that claiming town is a null point, Corazon. Breaking the rules is scummy, and I can only take the stupid newbie defense on that.
I pressured him because I felt that he was trying to discourage scumhunting (with the statement that scumhunting D1 is "rich"). I'm a little disappointed nobody else commented on this. I don't think he's addressed all of my concerns, but he does at least claim to not be discouraging scumhunting, and backed off trying to frame me as Mocsta in XXXV (for now at least).
You're right, that I didn't respond to your posts during my spat with Sn0. I even overlooked them later when we were discussing tunelling at the top of page 8. I felt like you were backing me up, and me just agreeing with you wouldn't really mean anything.
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EBWOP: remove "You're right, that". I'm getting tired, and for some reason I mixed up what you said in your last post with our top-o-page 8 discussion.
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On January 28 2013 10:59 warbaby wrote: I pressured him because I felt that he was trying to discourage scumhunting (with the statement that scumhunting D1 is "rich"). I'm a little disappointed nobody else commented on this. I don't think he's addressed all of my concerns, but he does at least claim to not be discouraging scumhunting, and backed off trying to frame me as Mocsta in XXXV (for now at least).
I wouldn't have a problem with you pressuring him, but the fact that he (Acid~) disagreed with you and then you just went berserk on him over that one point. He said that he felt like being a jerk was ok if it was in the name of scum-hunting and then you went on him for saying that and calling it a "useless post". I don't feel like it was very useless at all. He was giving his opinion on one of your points, trying to create discussion. There was no reason for you to hammer him for it. I think you did a good job of making discussion, but I disagree with your methods.
Blasting someone for their opinion is one of things that creates a hostile town environment. You haven't done that yet, but I just feel like you could have gone a different way in pressuring Acid.
However, one thing I would like to bring up:
On January 26 2013 20:59 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 14:31 warbaby wrote: My original post said "being a jerk for no reason"; scumhunting is a good reason. Snoman already made this exact point. Is there a good reason you made this rather pointless post? Why would you assume I automatically agree with Snoman, especially without knowing either of our alignments?
What is curious to me is that he would not automatically assume that scumhunting is a good reason to be a jerk. There are a myriad of reasons why.
My two guesses are: He assumed that "being a jerk for no reason" meant "being a jerk at all". OR Freudian scum slip?
When you (WB) pushed him on this part of his response (indirectly, I feel like you should have pushed this more, and I wish I would've caught it as well), he replied with:
On January 27 2013 01:59 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +warbabyOn January 26 2013 20:59 Acid~ wrote: Why would you assume I automatically agree with Snoman, especially without knowing either of our alignments? I assumed you agreed with snoman because you literally made the same point as snoman, just worded differently. Snoman also said some more stuff, which I feel contributed to the thread. What I think about your alignment is irrelevant to whether you made a quality first post, so I interpret this as a strawman. Are you dense or just vomiting words for the sake of it? You couldn't know my position until I mentioned it. If you think it's not valuable to know where people stand on issues, why the fuck would you make your first post specifically about issues?
He makes a very emotional defence and personally attacks you (which you did call out). Once again, the question of why isn't scumhunting obviously a good reason to become a jerk come to play.
I would like to hear Acid's response to this.
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Ok my shift is over. I'd like to summarize the votes: first vote of the game zare votes Afking (lurker) warbaby votes skapunk (oneliner) sn0 also votes skapunk cora votes abenson (lurker) slayalot votes skapunk glurio votes skapunk warbaby unvotes skapunk, votes abenson abenson isnt in the game -> warbaby votes afking cora votes skapunk skapunk dies flips VT
With 3 people not voting there is less then ideal information but i think we can get something out of those votes. What strikes me as odd is warbabys voting pattern: first one voting for skapunk, then jumping off to another lurker? Why? And why did you not go back to skapunk after abenson was out?
I'll leave you with this question and will go to sleep. Probably gonna sleep long so don't expect me to respond till the evening, good night.
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I explained both of my votes in detail when I made them. If you want I can quote my own posts, glurio, but I'd rather not repeat myself. I didn't change my vote back to SkaPunk after the abenson revelation because I still didn't think I was going to get anywhere pressuring SkaPunk, and I wanted to see if it might work on AFKing.
Basically, I was voting lurkers to try to pressure them into contributing, falling back on the assumption that lynching someone who failed to contribute D1 would't be the worst possible result for town.
Since it might not be obvious: It's not my fault abenson was still listed as a player in the OP 41.5 hours into D1. I would have never voted for abenson if I had known he wasn't playing the whole time.
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Glurio, you failed to list Zare's vote, and the fact that Cora was also forced to unvote abenson. I'm not offering this as reasoning for my own votes, I just find it noteworthy that you edited out certain events from your summary.
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EBWOP: nevermind, I see now that you mentioned Zare's vote. I'm going to bed now, it's clearly too late for me to be posting coherently. Good night.
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Wow. I go to sleep for 7 hours and absolutely zero people have posted. This is sad, and it makes me believe that a majority of the 6 semi-active people in this game are scum. As town, we can't afford to sit around and say nothing. We need to bounce ideas off of each other and give different viewpoints of D1 issues. If we sit around and not talk at all, we will never find scum and town will lose 100%.
I'm still waiting for Acid's response to my long post above. If anyone has something to say, they should bring it up before the deadline (10 hours left). An inactive town is a pathetic one.
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Well ummm... I'm back.
Nice game of mafia we have going here
For those who were curious, I voted when the vote was 1-1 SkaPunk and AFKing. I had noticed that Abenson was in fact glurio, and that he had at least made a post worth more than the other 2, so I had narrowed down my vote to those two at this point. I gave my reason for SkaPunk over AFKing, and while obviously SkaPunk flipped town, I'm with Cora on this lynch: we had no chance of hitting scum beyond a pure shot in the dark.
I'd like to say that Cora's overt comments about 3 scum seem pretty dirty. The setup explicitly says that there are always 2 mafia, and Cora's last game (NMM XXXIV) was another 9 person 2-scum setup much like this one. Cora also co-hosted NMM 35 so he should understand the setup better than that. It sounds a lot to me like "Oh I can't possibly be scum, scum would know how many scum there are". Of course, I may be giving him too much credit, that plan actually sounds pretty hard to come up with on your own, but I suppose scum have a QT for ideas like that.
I'll re-read what little there is to read analytically and make more posts tonight I guess.
The game is going to be pretty awkward with the amount of lurking/not contributing going on right now though.
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Sn0 you can chalk it up to me not looking at the link to the set-up. Once the game starts, I don't look at the pregame posts too much. I made another mistake of not reading when I said Mocsta was a replacement when he actually isn't. I'm asking you to call it a mistake based off of ignorance, nothing more.
I would like to see a last will from Sn0, WB, Acid, and whoever else feels like they need to make one. I'm going to be very busy today, but I'll post some thoughts closer to the deadline.
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That's a good point about the setup Sn0. I didn't catch this when I was discussing it with Cora. Thank you for pointing it out.
I'm not sure what I could say in a last will that wouldn't just be repeating myself. If I am night killed, you should look at the two people I've had any serious debate with. But that should be obvious, right?
I'd like to see contributions from Slayalot and Zarepath as well. They both made a few good posts D1. I'm especially looking forward to Zarepath stepping it up, since he should now be free from his IRL obligations.
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On January 29 2013 00:49 cDgCorazon wrote: Sn0 you can chalk it up to me not looking at the link to the set-up. Once the game starts, I don't look at the pregame posts too much. I made another mistake of not reading when I said Mocsta was a replacement when he actually isn't. I'm asking you to call it a mistake based off of ignorance, nothing more.
I just gave a bunch of reasons why I don't think that ignorance is a real excuse for that particular mistake. That being said, it is obviously POSSIBLE for you to be ignorant, I just find it unlikely that YOU of all people would actually make a setup mistake that basic.
@Town: I'd like to hear thoughts on this. He already played a 2scum9player setup just like this one (his last game), and he co-hosted a game. Plus I gather he has a history of being very well informed/inquisitive regarding setup etc.
On January 29 2013 00:49 cDgCorazon wrote: I would like to see a last will from Sn0, WB, Acid, and whoever else feels like they need to make one. I'm going to be very busy today, but I'll post some thoughts closer to the deadline.
I'll be dropping something akin to a last will near the night deadline, and while I encourage the others to as well, I find it somewhat hard to believe that somebody not named Sn0_Man, cDgCorazon or Warbaby might get NK'd. Take that for what you will.
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The two games you were referring to were games in which I co-hosted and died N1. That doesn't imply that I was paying attention to the game. Sn0 if you want to make a case that I am scum, you're gonna need to find more than me being ignorant and miscounting the number of mafia. There's way too much WIFOM in your accusations to merit anything.
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I dunno Sn0, if scum is in such a great position as Cora seems to think, they could kill one of the less active towns and still be completely dominating.
I think the more interesting point will be who doesn't get NK'd out of that list. I simply cannot believe both of the scum are lurkers.
On January 28 2013 23:45 cDgCorazon wrote:This is sad, and it makes me believe that a majority of the 6 semi-active people in this game are scum. That kind of defeatist attitude doesn't help town one bit.
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That wasn't defeatist, that was me being pissed off that you guys wasted half of the night and didn't post anything. Of course now that I know there are only 2 mafia, there can't be a majority.
Anyways, my little pep talk has gotten some response out of you guys. So well done.
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On January 27 2013 05:52 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 04:17 Slayalot wrote: I'm not saying that makes you a scum, but I don't think it's wise to make people afraid to post.
I don't think Warbaby has done that. It take a lot of work to create an environment where people are afraid to post. Attacking one person does not create such an environment. What happened with Acid is just friendly sparring on D1.
On January 27 2013 15:03 cDgCorazon wrote: Btw, I'm also noting how you guys haven't payed attention to anyone else's posts and are only focusing on your little "who has a larger penis" competition.
On January 28 2013 11:18 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 10:59 warbaby wrote: I pressured him because I felt that he was trying to discourage scumhunting (with the statement that scumhunting D1 is "rich"). I'm a little disappointed nobody else commented on this. I don't think he's addressed all of my concerns, but he does at least claim to not be discouraging scumhunting, and backed off trying to frame me as Mocsta in XXXV (for now at least).
I wouldn't have a problem with you pressuring him, but the fact that he (Acid~) disagreed with you and then you just went berserk on him over that one point.
Corazon has shifted dramatically from calling the Warbaby/acid interaction "friendly sparring" to a "who has a larger penis competition" and "you just went berserk on him." Inconsistency in his opinions.
His others posts are pretty fluffy. First game post is about avoiding confirmation bias and how we should use FoS instead of voting if we're just trying to pressure someone (unsure why), telling us not to rely too much on old metas, more on metas, condemning the 3 lurkers, voting for the only lurker nobody else has voted for, Mocsta as a potential replacement, the 1/3 chance of getting someone via LAL (which he later refers to as us having had ZERO chance; another inconsistency), talking about warbaby's pressure on acid, which he condemns but also talks about how defensive acid was...
I don't know, I don't see clear direction in his analysis/play. Acid's meta, in my experience, has been a little abrasive, and Cora knows that because he modded that game I played with Acid. I find it odd for him to call Acid out on being emotional during N1 when during D1 he ignored it as friendly sparring.
His reason for voting for SkaPunk doesn't seem very good:
On January 28 2013 09:55 cDgCorazon wrote: A scum would be more likely to post and then take advantage of 2 other people not posting to fly under the radar than they would be to not post anything at all.
Wouldn't scum more likely take advantage of that scenario by just posting MORE? If he can distance himself more than just a single post, especially with people beginning to vote on him, he would have done it, I think. Not necessarily scummy, but bad logic.
We have a lot of inactive players who need to be pressured and need to contribute, but in such an inactive thread, the person who seems scummiest to me right now is Corazon.
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Sno, I don't know that being wrong about the setup numbers is necessarily a scum read. Spag did crap like that all the time in XXXIV, and he was cop.
More scummy, to me, is his hypothetical replacement talk with all these Q's to the mods he could've found out easily from reading the OP. It read a lot as angsty fluff to me.
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That was an awesome post Zare. I will review the thread with what you've said in mind.
On January 29 2013 00:30 Sn0_Man wrote:I had noticed that Abenson was in fact glurio
How could you possibly have known this? Before stutter's PSA, there was not a single post in the entire thread indicating that abenson was glurio. Did someone tell you in the scum QT?
And if you did know this as you claim, why the fuck didn't you point it out as soon as Corazon voted for abenson? Ambiguity like this is only going to hurt town, if you're town you should be trying to clear stuff like this up, ASAP. Not pulling it out 12 hours later like it's evidence in a case.
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On January 29 2013 01:42 warbaby wrote:That was an awesome post Zare. I will review the thread with what you've said in mind. Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 00:30 Sn0_Man wrote:I had noticed that Abenson was in fact glurio How could you possibly have known this? Before stutter's PSA, there was not a single post in the entire thread indicating that abenson was glurio. Did someone tell you in the scum QT? And if you did know this as you claim, why the fuck didn't you point it out as soon as Corazon voted for abenson? Ambiguity like this is only going to hurt town, if you're town you should be trying to clear stuff like this up, ASAP. Not pulling it out 12 hours later like it's evidence in a case.
A) you know full well I was away when Cora posted his vote.
B) I wasn't using it as evidence in a case I was merely explaining my vote in detail
C) I knew abenson was out for glurio because I was looking through the filter list for glurio and couldn't find him. Admittedly this was a logical fallacy because it could have been AFKing who glurio replaced, and I would have been none the wiser, but I assumed it was abenson because his was the last name on the list and I hadn't seen him post. Either way, I had him discounted as glurio.
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On January 29 2013 01:42 warbaby wrote:That was an awesome post Zare. I will review the thread with what you've said in mind. Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 00:30 Sn0_Man wrote:I had noticed that Abenson was in fact glurio How could you possibly have known this? Before stutter's PSA, there was not a single post in the entire thread indicating that abenson was glurio. Did someone tell you in the scum QT? And if you did know this as you claim, why the fuck didn't you point it out as soon as Corazon voted for abenson? Ambiguity like this is only going to hurt town, if you're town you should be trying to clear stuff like this up, ASAP. Not pulling it out 12 hours later like it's evidence in a case.
Do you even read the thread before making baseless accusations? He was gone before cora voted for abenson.
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To expound, my vote post clearly indicates that I have abenson tagged as glurio. It doesn't make any sense any other way.
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Sorry, you're right. I'll go re-read the thread now.
However, even given your point, I do not think my accusation are baseless at all. I'd still love to know how sn0man knew abenson was glurio. And why he didn't bring this up in the thread before he left.
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On January 29 2013 01:53 Sn0_Man wrote:C) I knew abenson was out for glurio because I was looking through the filter list for glurio and couldn't find him. Admittedly this was a logical fallacy because it could have been AFKing who glurio replaced, and I would have been none the wiser, but I assumed it was abenson because his was the last name on the list and I hadn't seen him post. Either way, I had him discounted as glurio.
OK, that answers one of my questions, although as you admit your answer has a logical fallacy.
I'd still like to know why you didn't bring this point up in the thread. Corazon posted mentioning abenson being a lurker multiple times. Right after your vote for SkaPunk, before you left, I mentioned abenson. If you were town, shouldn't you have corrected us on this? Why did you just sit on the information, instead?
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On January 29 2013 02:03 warbaby wrote:Right after your vote for SkaPunk, before you left, I mentioned abenson.
I pressed Post, then I pressed Shut Down. I was unaware that I needed to explain to you that glurio was part of the game.
@Glurio: Care to post some analysis? in 9-person games (with now 8 living people of which not all have posted) voting summaries are somewhat self-evident, and in any game they don't really earn you townie points. Your last game you didn't get much chance to play, so I'd like to get a feel for your game. What do you think of Slayalot (his filter should be pretty easy to go through), and which parts of Zarepath's analysis of Cora strike you as best/worst?
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I'd like to have some thoughts from acid and slayalot on the situation.
And i still want to highlight warbabys vote switching to afking instead of skapunk, isn't it basically the same thing with coras voting for the only lurker who nobody so far voted for zarepath? His reason is he wanted to draw an reaction, since it didn't work with skapunk. He wanted to draw an reaction from someone who never posted in the thread, probably forgot about the game as soon as he registered himself for it. So now that he's sure skapunk dies he can make an easy switch. Well shame for him abenson wasn't in the game. Why not vote for Skapunk again few minutes before the lynch? The chance of drawing an reaction in that time span is really non-existant. I just want everyones opinion on this.
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I think that's a valid point. If Sno knew abenson as glurio, there was absolutely no town motivation for letting everyone else believe that he was one of the three lurkers (which at least Corazon had pointed him out as a lurker earlier on).
HOWEVER, in his vote post, he only describes the other two lurkers as lurkers, so it's easy to see how he'd already calculated Abenson out, I suppose.
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On January 29 2013 01:32 zarepath wrote: Corazon has shifted dramatically from calling the Warbaby/acid interaction "friendly sparring" to a "who has a larger penis competition" and "you just went berserk on him." Inconsistency in his opinions.
I believe the penis comment was about my interaction with Sn0man, not Acid~.
I don't know, I don't see clear direction in his analysis/play. Acid's meta, in my experience, has been a little abrasive, and Cora knows that because he modded that game I played with Acid. I find it odd for him to call Acid out on being emotional during N1 when during D1 he ignored it as friendly sparring.
Did he actually call Acid~ out? I think he just confirmed that Acid~'s third post was more consistent with his previous town meta.
His reason for voting for SkaPunk doesn't seem very good: Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 09:55 cDgCorazon wrote: A scum would be more likely to post and then take advantage of 2 other people not posting to fly under the radar than they would be to not post anything at all.
Wouldn't scum more likely take advantage of that scenario by just posting MORE? If he can distance himself more than just a single post, especially with people beginning to vote on him, he would have done it, I think. Not necessarily scummy, but bad logic. We have a lot of inactive players who need to be pressured and need to contribute, but in such an inactive thread, the person who seems scummiest to me right now is Corazon.
His reasoning on the vote is a bit weak, but it's a D1 vote in a game with 3 lurkers.
I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion, just because I think you got mixed up about his interactions with Acid~. However, you are not the only one looking at Corazon critically, right now. If you and Sn0 want to pursue Corazon more, I'll certainly keep an open mind.
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@glurio: I suppose there is a certain gesture to making sure that there's a vote on all three of the lurkers, so Cora voting for abenson instead of one of the other two lurkers doesn't seem particularly scummy.
But now that I re-read your question, you're actually asking me about warbaby. Now that I look at it, his vote-switching was REALLY odd. He started the wagon on Skapunk, then ditched it for Abenson, and when he realized Abenson wasn't a real vote, he switched to AFKing. Now that Skapunk's flipped town, his vote-switching could be seen as scum motivated to avoid credit for the mislynch.
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On January 29 2013 02:18 glurio wrote: And i still want to highlight warbabys vote switching to afking instead of skapunk, isn't it basically the same thing with coras voting for the only lurker who nobody so far voted for zarepath? His reason is he wanted to draw an reaction, since it didn't work with skapunk. He wanted to draw an reaction from someone who never posted in the thread, probably forgot about the game as soon as he registered himself for it. So now that he's sure skapunk dies he can make an easy switch. Well shame for him abenson wasn't in the game. Why not vote for Skapunk again few minutes before the lynch? The chance of drawing an reaction in that time span is really non-existant. I just want everyones opinion on this.
At least I tried to draw a reaction, instead of just bandwagoning on SkaPunk. It's obvious I voted for SkaPunk in the first place. Why don't you also criticize this action, instead of focusing on the confusion around abenson?
I already explained to you why I didn't switch back to SkaPunk:
On January 28 2013 15:26 warbaby wrote:I didn't change my vote back to SkaPunk after the abenson revelation because I still didn't think I was going to get anywhere pressuring SkaPunk, and I wanted to see if it might work on AFKing.
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Yeah, I really don't mind Cora's vote on abenson, even though he wasn't part of the game. It was intended to pressure a lurker, and I can live with that, although it doesn't really follow his posted theory on FoS vs Vote.
Warbaby's vote switching is odd, and is mildly reminiscent of scum jumping around, but with a crummy day 1 like we had I'm not sure we can read too much into anybody's vote. I mean, I can see a town motive of merely doing anything possible to try and trigger posts, but it is a lot easier to see the scum player overthinking the votes and trying to not be identified with the obviously wrong bandwagon. Then again, if I'm scum I'm holding firm with my vote on a indefensible lurker, because it's horrendously safe. Then again, so were his abenson/afking votes so... Yeah maybe this looks worse than I thought.
I would like to hear zare's thoughts on the vote given that he asked for a clearly consolidated vote, and then was *not* part of the consensus SkaPunk vote.
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Sn0: few comments on coras case
I really like that he called him out on his inconsistencies. (friendly sparring -> going berserk, 1/3 chance -> no chance) But all in all most of zares analysis is just that, calling out inconcistencies. While i believe this is good information, some stuff is probably just overblown to get a point across. (the friendly sparring to going berserk, i think cora just wanted to make a point)
What i found really striking was this though:
On January 28 2013 08:05 zarepath wrote: I think that it's out of character for Corazon to be speculating so severely as to the hypothetical spread of mafia among lurkers and the possibilities of replacements. And to knowingly break rules and ask for mods to tell him he's breaking a rule instead of just looking it up when he's unsure if he's breaking the rule or not.
and i really didn't like the vote post of cora especially the last sentence:
On January 28 2013 03:59 cDgCorazon wrote: I'll cover that base WB.
##Vote: Abenson
If these are the three mafia their coach must be ridiculously annoyed.
Can't put my finger on it, but it really sounds scummy to me.
I'll try to post more after cooking and eating dinner.
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On January 29 2013 02:39 Sn0_Man wrote: Yeah, I really don't mind Cora's vote on abenson, even though he wasn't part of the game. It was intended to pressure a lurker, and I can live with that, although it doesn't really follow his posted theory on FoS vs Vote.
You don't mind that Corazon voted for someone you knew wasn't in the game? That really makes it sound like your true motivation was not actually to help pressure lurkers.
Thanks for answering my questions. I've had my say on this, and the open questions on my voting pattern. I'll shut up about it for now. I agree that we need to hear more about this from everyone else.
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Sn0, I asked for consolidation early in the day, before any votes were out. I was the first person to vote on anyone, so it's not as if I was dodging Skapunk, and was basically AFK for the rest of the day, save the two small comments I made.
Warbaby's jump is justified by the fact that scum would want to bus Skapunk, and therefore anyone NOT voting for Skapunk cannot be mafia, and therefore Warbaby should vote with Cora or Zarepath. But then in the end, he still ends up voting for Skapunk??? I think Sn0's right that day 1 pretty much sucked for providing analysis material, but this is the most significant vote behavior we have to look at right now, and it's worth examining.
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On January 29 2013 02:47 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 02:39 Sn0_Man wrote: Yeah, I really don't mind Cora's vote on abenson, even though he wasn't part of the game. It was intended to pressure a lurker, and I can live with that, although it doesn't really follow his posted theory on FoS vs Vote. You don't mind that Corazon voted for someone you knew wasn't in the game? That really makes it sound like your true motivation was not actually to help pressure lurkers. Thanks for answering my questions. I've had my say on this, and the open questions on my voting pattern. I'll shut up about it for now. I agree that we need to hear more about this from everyone else.
I, Currently, don't mind that Cora voted for somebody that he thought was in the game. Complex? no.
The fact that I believed abenson wasn't a part of the game is immaterial.
I suppose you could say that Cora seems to have been acting fairly ignorant of, well, a lot of aspects of this game that I would expect him to be on top of. I'm not calling that scummy yet, but it isn't helping my read on him overall.
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On January 29 2013 02:46 glurio wrote:and i really didn't like the vote post of cora especially the last sentence: Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 03:59 cDgCorazon wrote: I'll cover that base WB.
##Vote: Abenson
If these are the three mafia their coach must be ridiculously annoyed. Can't put my finger on it, but it really sounds scummy to me. I'll try to post more after cooking and eating dinner.
That last sentence is weird.
First of all is the setup error. Failing to understand the rules/setup is scummy. I'm also guilty of this. Second, why is he thinking about the mafia coach, and why is he even using the word coach after I got bonked by marv for mentioning coaching. Third, the sentence really doesn't help explain his vote at all, so it's a little odd that he included it in the first place. Finally, it looks like he was trying to spark setup speculation (and succeeding at it), which can be a way for scum to smokescreen/prevent more important discussion from taking place.
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On January 29 2013 03:11 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 02:46 glurio wrote:and i really didn't like the vote post of cora especially the last sentence: On January 28 2013 03:59 cDgCorazon wrote: I'll cover that base WB.
##Vote: Abenson
If these are the three mafia their coach must be ridiculously annoyed. Can't put my finger on it, but it really sounds scummy to me. I'll try to post more after cooking and eating dinner. That last sentence is weird. First of all is the setup error. Failing to understand the rules/setup is scummy. I'm also guilty of this. Second, why is he thinking about the mafia coach, and why is he even using the word coach after I got bonked by marv for mentioning coaching. Third, the sentence really doesn't help explain his vote at all, so it's a little odd that he included it in the first place. Finally, it looks like he was trying to spark setup speculation (and succeeding at it), which can be a way for scum to smokescreen/prevent more important discussion from taking place.
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Setup and rules misunderstandings are townie. Scum are in close contact with a scum coach who clears most of that stuff up for them, especially the number of scum rofl. What was scummy was Cora's blatant misrepresentation of the setup.
I'll admit it was kinda like he was trying to spark off topic speculation and discussion, but FWIW the setup in the 2of4 game is really really simple so there isn't much speculation room.
@glurio: There you go. More posts like that please. I'd rather not have to prompt you all the time, but that was a great start.
@Slayalot (and Acid): JUST MAKE POSTS PLEASE
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I swear I read in a guide somewhere that rule/setup mistakes can be seen as scummy since town should be taking the time to actually verify this stuff, while scum can use confusion around it to their advantage.
On January 29 2013 03:23 Sn0_Man wrote: @Slayalot (and Acid): JUST MAKE POSTS PLEASE
A thousand times this.
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Acid has been warned for not voting. AFKing is modkilled, looking for a replacement.
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I'm really sorry for missing the vote, lot of work stuff going on and still on for the next 24 hours or so. I'm re-reading the thread right now, will post before the end of N1.
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Finally done with the reading part! (and looking up several words like LAL, bus, FOS and so on.)
Guys I'm sorry.. This game was much more time demanding than I thought. I thought this was like a lunch break game. Pre-game / day 1 I didn't mind. Now there are page 9,10,11 since I last read - and in that time space I've been asked to post by almost all of you.
I'm not gonna abandon the game, I'll play it through to the end (cause I hate leavers) - but not nearly as actively as I know you guys want me to be.
The points that I had, around page 9 (I think), seem so ancient now! And there are now 20 things that I have not yet commented on. I don't even remember the questions.
I'm going to give you my thoughts, but they are no way near as deep or well thought out as what you guys are writing about. (And you are even reading "meta" which I can understand is text from previous games) I take my hat of to everyone that does this - It's pretty pro
Anyway. My thought are: Thought 1:
On January 29 2013 01:53 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 01:42 warbaby wrote:That was an awesome post Zare. I will review the thread with what you've said in mind. On January 29 2013 00:30 Sn0_Man wrote:I had noticed that Abenson was in fact glurio How could you possibly have known this? Before stutter's PSA, there was not a single post in the entire thread indicating that abenson was glurio. Did someone tell you in the scum QT? And if you did know this as you claim, why the fuck didn't you point it out as soon as Corazon voted for abenson? Ambiguity like this is only going to hurt town, if you're town you should be trying to clear stuff like this up, ASAP. Not pulling it out 12 hours later like it's evidence in a case. A) you know full well I was away when Cora posted his vote. B) I wasn't using it as evidence in a case I was merely explaining my vote in detail C) I knew abenson was out for glurio because I was looking through the filter list for glurio and couldn't find him. Admittedly this was a logical fallacy because it could have been AFKing who glurio replaced, and I would have been none the wiser, but I assumed it was abenson because his was the last name on the list and I hadn't seen him post. Either way, I had him discounted as glurio.
The part I highlighted just seems like a straight up lie. Why would you assume the last person on any list?
Thought 2: Right after we lynched a townie, warbaby seemed very nervous. Triple posting. Being too tired and misunderstanding stuff. And right after - pointing fingers at the people who voted for skapunk. (me, sn0 and glurio) You seemed very scummy to me, right there and then. Reading the thread today, I was hoping that there would be more talk about this. But I just have the feeling that you are one step ahread, always redirecting the thread to other people. What does everyone els think on this subject?
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On January 29 2013 05:27 Slayalot wrote: Why would you assume the last person on any list?
So I'm looking through the list in the OP for glurio's filter, to judge his contributions. I get to the end, and he isn't there. "hey, where did glurio go?" I glance at the list again and I see this abenson guy, sitting right at the end (glurio was the last guy to /in), whose name I don't recognize and who hasn't posted a word since start. "oh, that must be glurio I remember something about him replacing in". Host hadn't updated the "important posts" part of the OP at that point so it was reasonable to assume that he hadn't updated the filter list either. People need to calm down about this.
On January 29 2013 05:27 Slayalot wrote: Thought 2: Right after we lynched a townie, warbaby seemed very nervous. Triple posting. Being too tired and misunderstanding stuff. And right after - pointing fingers at the people who voted for skapunk. (me, sn0 and glurio) You seemed very scummy to me, right there and then. Reading the thread today, I was hoping that there would be more talk about this. But I just have the feeling that you are one step ahread, always redirecting the thread to other people. What does everyone els think on this subject?
Again, warbaby has played this game almost line for line like mocsta did last game (except moc was better at coming up with BS cases, something that WB hasn't grown into yet). I've indicated that I find that scummy, but there quite simply hasn't been enough people posting for there to have been legitimate discussion regarding that. I'm glad you bring it up though.
Posting anything helped your cause a lot, because your first post yesterday really smacked of scum putting in the mandatory 1 post + vote without contributing ANYTHING to the hunt for scum. At this point, however, you are still pretty high up on the lynch list, so keep posting
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So snoman, if you see Warbaby played exactly like Mocsta did last time, but not as well, that means he's your number one scum read, right?
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Cakepie is replacing AFKing. Effective immediately.
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Hi Cakepie.
@Zare: he reminds me a lot of mocsta, but you will notice that It wasn't me who really outed mocsta. I'm bad at seeing through play like this to real motives. I'll say more around deadline.
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On January 29 2013 05:27 Slayalot wrote: Guys I'm sorry.. This game was much more time demanding than I thought. I thought this was like a lunch break game. Pre-game / day 1 I didn't mind. Now there are page 9,10,11 since I last read - and in that time space I've been asked to post by almost all of you.
I'm not gonna abandon the game, I'll play it through to the end (cause I hate leavers) - but not nearly as actively as I know you guys want me to be.
I'm totally fine with this. If you can make a few quality posts a day, like you have been so far, then in my opinion you're doing a decent job playing the game.
Don't worry about making a point way after the fact. Everything in the game is always open to discussion IMO.
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I think it's also important to distinguish "trying to run town" with "behaving exactly like Mocsta literally, Hitler." (Exaggerated to make a point.) I've certainly gotten a Mocsta vibe but it's important to separate Alpha Town personality from Very Active Scum behavior.
Heading out soon for the night, look forward to seeing night actions and what people's wills are. I'll try to post a will-ish thing before deadline but no promises.
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warbaby
On January 26 2013 11:16 warbaby wrote:I'd like to get this flawless town victory started by suggesting some ideas to promote a healthy town atmosphere: - No lurking! Personally I'm not yet decided on Lynch All Lurkers, but it sounds like a decent idea.
- Post succinctly. Don't ramble about your personal life. Don't post a stream of consciousness... coalesce your ideas before you post.
- Don't be needlessly aggressive. Pressuring scum to get information is great, being a jerk for no reason is not.
GLHF everyone
This reads a lot to me like a combination of Mocsta and Spag from XXXV: trying hard to look town ("flawless town victory"), pushing for LAL, and claiming a desire to promote a "healthy" town atmosphere, notably by discouraging agression.
On January 27 2013 10:45 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 10:20 Sn0_Man wrote:trying to scumhunt and trying to look like you are scumhunting are 2 very different things, and should be reasonably distinct. I don't agree. If someone pretends to scumhunt convincingly, they should appear to be the same as someone who is actually scumhunting. Just because Mocsta pretended effectively (for a while) in XXXV does not mean I'm doing the same thing. The way I see it, the only thing I can do to further address your other concerns is to play solid town, without being overly aggressive and feeding into your criticism. This seems reasonable so I'll give it a shot, unless you have a better suggestion, or some direct questions for me. Your point B is not possible for me to address further. You've made your point here, I gave my explanation before I realized I had broken the rules. Can we leave it at that?
It seems like warbaby is trying really hard to be everybody's friend. He also claims he's trying to scumhunt, whereas Mocsta was only pretending, but where is the actual scumhunting? I see a lot of theoreticals, of talking about scumhunting and also a whole lot of defending his play trying to point out how he's not like Mocsta.
If you are town and actually scumhuting, you don't need to claim it, it will show through your actions. And one of the ways it will show is you will not be afraid to pressure people. Warbaby has poked left and right at several different people, but it's been lukewarm. I don't see him inhabited by the righteous fire someone in his position should have. Except when he's talking about lurkers and urging people to post more.
This is interesting because in a game where scum are active, targetting lurkers is a win-win strategy as you get to appear town while setting up a safe vote (you have plausible deniability - "hey sure he flipped town but he was a lurker, so essentially playing for scum!"
On January 28 2013 00:28 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 21:17 zarepath wrote: Don't "shut up for a while." That's not town-motivated. Think about who else you'd like to pressure. If you shut up every time somebody criticizes you for pressuring them, that's not going to go super well.
Great point. I'm offering to cool my jets (for now) because I think sn0man has a legitimate complaint about controlling town. I totally don't agree with sn0man that scum hunting D1 is "rich", though. Would he prefer scum get a free pass D1? I would like others' take on this. Maybe there's someone else that sn0man would allow to scumhunt, without accusing them of being a Mocsta doppelganger? I didn't forget about you. You were manner enough to explain why your contributions were going to be thin D1. And the posts you are making are good.
I don't like this because, again, it seems like trying too hard to be really friendly, on top of that he acts like he has a good excuse to stop being active and if anyone calls him on it, he can just say "weeell, snoman said I was too controlling so I'm just trying to be nice, you know, I'm a really nice guy really, I'm so nice I couldn't possibly be a scummy scum scum."
On January 28 2013 00:39 warbaby wrote: Also, I'm with Glurio.
##Vote: SkaPunk
SkaPunk has demonstrated that he is in fact capable of using the post box. Maybe if we pressure him some more, he'll actually contribute.
But you're NOT pressuring him. Just making a vote is not pressure. You didn't ask him anything. You just parked your vote on a lurker. Safe play.
On January 28 2013 04:53 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 03:59 cDgCorazon wrote: I'll cover that base WB.
##Vote: Abenson
If these are the three mafia their coach must be ridiculously annoyed. I will certainly not be annoyed if we lynch a lurker and they flip scum. I don't think this will happen D1 though, due to the scum team's information advantage. Going by statistics it's most probable one of the 3 lurkers is scum, if one assumes lurkers are evenly distributed.
There is a 1/3rd chance, if you assume scum is evenly distributed among the lurkers. I'm not sure this is a totally valid assumption, although it probably makes more sense than all of the lurkers being scum.
This is wrong. In a 9 player setup with 2 scum and 3 lurkers, assuming even distribution, then we have 2/9 chances of lynching scum by choosing a player at random, whether we lynch a lurker or not. Lynching a lurker is only advantageous if you know that scum are more likely to lurk than to be active. But you can't know that. Well, not if you're town. If you're scum and you *know* that both scum are active, then it's statistically advantageous for you to lynch a lurker, obviously.
Math warning:+ Show Spoiler +
Assuming even distribution, there is a 6/9 chance of the first scum player being an active player, and then a 5/8 chance of the second scum also being active, this makes it 5/12 chance of both scum being active. Then you have a 6/9 chance of first scum being active, plus 3/8 chance of 2nd scum being lurker, coming down to 1/4 chance. Double it for the other way around, makes 1/2 chance (6/12) of having scum being split between actives and lurkers Finally, you have a 3/9 * 2/8 chance of both scum being lurker (1/12) Total 12/12
If you lynch a random active, you have the following chances of hitting scum:
2/6 out of 5/12 (case where both scum are active) 1/6 out of 1/4 (case one where scum are split) 1/6 out of 1/4 (case two where scum are split) 0 out of 1/12 (case where scum are both lurkers)
2/6 * 5/12 + 1/6 * 1/4 + 1/6 * 1/4 + 0 = 2/9
2/9 chances
If you lynch a random lurker, I'll directly simplify but it comes basically to 1/3 * 1/2 + 2/3 * 1/12 which is also 2/9
Why do I insist on this? Because I think warbaby is deliberately misleading us and pushing us into a lurker lynch when he knows scum aren't lurking, trying to back it up with numbers that are wrong.
Again, for the cheap seats: there is no statistical advantage to lynching a lurker, however if you make it seem like there is one and you direct your scumbuddies to not lurk, then you can fool town into a guaranteed mislynch while appearing perfectly reasonable.
On January 28 2013 08:35 warbaby wrote: ##Unvote: SkaPunk ##Vote: abenson
By glurio's metric, we should lynch scum, then scummy lurkers, then lurkers. If SkaPunk's single post was a scum trying to blend in then he's the worst scum ever. My (very weak) read on him is that he's town, but playing with extremely little effort so far. Pressure is apparently not getting a rise from him. Maybe he's not reading the thread, but one would really expect scum to put up some kind of defense when they're 2 hours (is that right?) from being lynched. So I'm going to vote for an actual 100% lurker.
I like that Corazon didn't vote for SkaPunk. If Cora was scum, there's a chance he would have just bandwagoned SkaPunk right off the bat. So I'm voting with Cora. The same applies to Zarepath, but Zare's been less active than Cora so I feel it's a bit riskier voting with Zare (in case AFKing suddenly steps up his game).
Speaking of pressuring people to get a rise from them, what the heck happened to Acid~? He defended himself from my bullshit aggression, then ignored Zare's question about LAL and peaced out.
Now that the lynch on SkaPunk seems guaranteed, you hop off the wagon claiming a (small) townread but you don't push for your next target. You're perfectly content to let town lynch someone on which you have a town read.
I'm going to stop the quotes here because there isn't much more to add. I still don't see you actually scumhunting like you claimed before. Just defending yourself, explaining your vote and discussing rules and theories and setups.
No strong lead on who you think is scum, not even a FoS, just a vague notion that you "don't believe both scum are lurkers". A pretty easy assumption to make since now the probability of having 2 scum amongst 2 lurkers in an 8 player game is ~3.6%
Anyway, I have to go back to work, will be back in >24hours but until then:
##FoS: warbaby
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Well you join with a bang acid.
I want to add some stuff before the night is over:
I think warbaby tries to take advantage of the Mocsta situation. He said he observed the last game, so he knows how mocsta played. Also a lot of people from this game are playing again. What i thought about was this post:
On January 28 2013 09:20 zarepath wrote: Someone being obviously scummy Day 1 in a newbie game and yet still being scummy is not unheard of; in my last two newbie games, the two most scummy lurkers were scum all along, but we jumped off of them both times because we were sure they couldn't be THAT scummy on purpose.
Just saying.
warbaby is well aware of that, so he tries to emulate mocstas style, because who would think scum actually emulates a scum player from the game before it, with lots of the same players who would all recognize it? I hope i get my point across.
This will be all for me today have to sleep.
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Yeah, acid has it right.
Apart from having the most posts, the biggest parallel between warbaby and mocsta is their desperate need to be perceived as scumhunting, and their penchant for counter-attacking those who dare question their posts or motives.
Warbaby trumpets his scumhunting, without doing any. It is all about him, and any questioning of that results in "YOU DISAGREE WITH ME, THEREFORE YOU HATE SCUMHUNTING AND LOVE SCUM".
I still find it somehow believable that he is a poor, misguided townie. As I did with mocsta. I'm certifiably awful at this game
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just a friendly reminder, the deadline is in two hours for the day flip. If you have not already done so, please PM Marv and I with your night actions. If there is no PM it will be treated as no action.
Thanks
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I think I've already defended myself on most of the points being brought against me, so I won't post some big rebuttal.
The one item I guess I haven't addressed is how I can claim to be scumhunting (eg, what have I done that qualifies as such). My methods are to apply pressure, like I did to Acid and Sn0man. I also try to encourage discussion as best I can by responding to people when I have something worthwhile to say, either when they post about me, or post about someone else.
I like that you bring back up my accusation that you were trying to discourage scumhunting, Sn0man.
On January 27 2013 10:20 Sn0_Man wrote: A) "trying to scumhunt" is a bit rich at this stage.
You backed off most of the other assertions in that post. But I honestly think this small quote stands on it's own as a scummy thing to say. Go ahead and push a mislynch on me, when I flip town you and Acid are going to look really bad.
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Why would town talk about how awful they are
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I'm not feeling well, and am probably going to take a nap. Since I might not be around for deadline, here's my will. I'm going to keep it simple, refer to my filter if you want more details.
Corazon - He hasn't contributed a whole ton (lists are cool but I don't really count them as significant contributions). He seems to be very careful about what he says, and I think he's only really said one thing that can really be criticized as scummy (the last sentence in his SkaPunk post). I take a null read from his setup confusion. So if he's scum blending is a town, he's doing a good job. I'd like him to be more aggressive because I think he'd be good at it.
AFKing/Cakepie - Still waiting to see a single post from them. Expecting lots D2 or he's a candidate to lynch as a lurker.
Slayalot - I hope he can find time to contribute because I think he'd be good at the game. The posts he's made are ok, but we really need more from him to make any kind of read.
Sn0man - My #1 scum candidate. I think he's said a number of things that are scummy. He jumped right on lynching town SkaPunk. See my filter for details Basically most of his posts look to me like scum throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. But he could also be trying to apply the same methods I claim to be using -- pressuring into a scumslip, posting decently to encourage discussion, etc.
Acid~ - I like that acid is sticking to his guns. I hate that acid has made 4 posts and failed to vote. I'd like to hear what he thinks of something other than me, and a better excuse for his extremely poor play so far. My 3rd ranked scum candidate currently, but very weak since I can't draw much from a half dozen posts.
Zarepath - A step above acid and Slayalot in the present but not contributing a whole lot category. I still can't make much of a read on him, but I'm leaning town because he seems to be putting some thought into his posts.
Glurio - My #2 scum candidate, but this is weak. Glurio posts stuff that generally blends in. He pressures people already under pressure, but never really puts forward his own case. He votes for Ska only after Ska is already set to be lynched. Very blendy play, but he has made contributions that are beneficial to town in my eyes. So my read on him is pretty weak.
I am pointing some fingers here, but that's how the game of mafia is played. Getting on my case because I've been critical of several different players is bullshit and anti-town.
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EBWOP: acid has made 5 posts since the game started, not including EBWOP's
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Just to be formal, FoS: Sn0_man
Acid, I'm glad you're back swinging, but I also think it's slightly ridiculous for you to just blow back in here and drop an FoS after failing to vote and only commenting on one player.
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Not ridiculous at all. Would you rather that a lurkers first post were fluff or hard analysis?
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Oh well, I can't sleep. Acid making a hard analysis is not what's ridiculous. Failing to vote day 1, and then swooping in with an FoS is what I find slightly ridiculous. If Acid won't post his opinions about anybody else, then how are we supposed to get reads on him? And what's the point of making an FoS if you don't give other players enough content to make a read on you?
Has Acid~ put in the effort to analyze anyone's play but my own? We don't have a single shred of evidence to the contrary.
Why didn't Acid~ post a will before leaving N1? This makes it seem like he's very sure there's no chance of him being night killed.
I encourage you guys to look at the case Acid~ and Sn0_man are making against me. But I also encourage you to look at their play objectively, with special attention at how much effort they've put into doing anything else.
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day 2
No one was killed (flavor to come)
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Hey guys, just popping in to ack that I'm replacing in. I'm still busy with work for a few more hours, haven't read anything yet so ya'll gotta give me some time to catch up -- will try to get something together before I go to bed tonight hopefully. (PST, GMT-8)
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On January 29 2013 10:16 warbaby wrote: Oh well, I can't sleep. Acid making a hard analysis is not what's ridiculous. Failing to vote day 1, and then swooping in with an FoS is what I find slightly ridiculous. If Acid won't post his opinions about anybody else, then how are we supposed to get reads on him? And what's the point of making an FoS if you don't give other players enough content to make a read on you?
Has Acid~ put in the effort to analyze anyone's play but my own? We don't have a single shred of evidence to the contrary.
Why didn't Acid~ post a will before leaving N1? This makes it seem like he's very sure there's no chance of him being night killed.
I encourage you guys to look at the case Acid~ and Sn0_man are making against me. But I also encourage you to look at their play objectively, with special attention at how much effort they've put into doing anything else.
While it is my fault that I didn't warn about this, I don't think I can be blamed for my real-life job interfering with mafia.
I analyzed only you because I didn't have time after I finished with you and I started with you because you were the first to attract my attention.
I notice that you conveniently avoided to reply to what I think is your scummiest action so far: you took your vote off SkaPunk claiming you had a town read on him, yet despite your willingness to lead town you did not lead town away from a possible mislynch.
Explain what happened with the stats on day 1.
Option 1: you didn't check your math (it's retardedly simple math and you were way off), which makes you lazy, which as town is simply helping scum - aka treason.
Option 2: you deliberately misled us in order to make a LAL vote more attractive than it should've been, so that we wouldn't lynch scum.
Which is it?
Also, you did not "scumhunt" by your interaction with Snoman and me. You talked and you were meek in your accusations.
Explain the situations described above.
Explain, or die.
##Vote: warbaby
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I'm really sorry that I couldn't post my last thoughts, my phone died and I just got home. However, I would like to make a general answer to the accusations made against me.
Being inconsistent: You're right Zare, my focus just has not been here over the first day. I'm making a promise to all of you now that I'm going to read the thread again before saying anything. No more inconsistencies. If you're expecting a defense to this point, you're not gonna get one. I've been wasting my time.
Voting for Ska: At the point in time I was going to vote for Ska, it was already going to be him lynched, with 3 people voting for him who wouldn't be able to change their votes before the deadline. I voted Abenson to make sure all of the lurkers knew that we would not allow for lurking. Once I was notified that Abenson didn't exist, I just decided to consolidate our vote for Ska. Glurio's comment that something in my post was fishy (without actually saying which part was fishy) is scummy in itself, trying to distract the town by getting them to find a deeper meaning in everything that I post.
Not knowing set-up/being ignorant: I've already stated this, it's a massive WIFOM bomb. Stop distracting town with it.
Me not playing to my "usual standard" (whatever that is): In the past two games I've played, I spent 6 Days as scum and 1 day as town. So perhaps me not playing like I did in XXXIII means I'm town?
Now to the scumhunting part. The problem I'm having with Acid right now is that all he has done the whole game is tunneled Warbaby. I know he's going after his scum read, but most of his posts have been in his argument with WB and attacking WB. I made an argument against him asking for a reply, and it has completely ignored in his pursuit to have Warbaby lynched at all costs. Ignoring an argument is an automatic FoS for me. If he was town, why would he ignore an argument made against him. If he is truly innocent, he can explain his behavior, not ignore me and hope it blows over.
FoS: Acid~
I'm gonna go through the thread again just to make sure I didn't miss anything.
Last note for this long post: Zare, I'm glad you got your RL stuff out of the way. Your case against me was the most solid of the multiple arguments (I really can't call any of the rest cases) against me. It's going a long way for me to believe that you are town. Keep it up.
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Oh, hey Acid~, good of you to drop in. Thought you weren't going to be back for another ">24 hours".
I'm not going to explain my D1 actions any more. I already explained them enough. Anyone who wants answers to Acid~'s questions are invited to review my filter. If anyone (other than Acid~ and Sn0man) are still not satisfied, I will answer their specific questions.
On January 29 2013 10:46 Acid~ wrote: Also, you did not "scumhunt" by your interaction with Snoman and me. You talked and you were meek in your accusations. ##Vote: warbaby
If my was so meek, why did you get so pissed off at me in your second post of the thread, when I pressured you?
##Vote: Acid~
I still have my suspicions about Sn0man, but I can't see a town motivation in Acid~ voting me right now. Town is in good shape aftering dodging N1 kill, anyone throwing around votes right now should have put in enough effort to analyze D1 in it's totality, which Acid~ admits he has not even bothered to do.
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Warbaby, you are not playing for town right now. OMGUSing is awful, refusing to answer questions is awful, criticizing people for making analytic posts is awful. Address content not people.
And what the heck is this about criticizing someone for throwing around their vote too early D2, and therefore, you immediately vote for them? You have hardly any consistency in your stances or opinions.
If you truly suspected Acid to be scum, you would encourage him to post more and welcome his analysis so you could scour it for evidence, not lash out at him while refusing to defend yourself in any way. Town can be confident in their defense; it costs little to make because you don't have to lie.
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On January 29 2013 11:29 zarepath wrote: And what the heck is this about criticizing someone for throwing around their vote too early D2, and therefore, you immediately vote for them? You have hardly any consistency in your stances or opinions.
I criticize Acid~ for doing nothing but tunnel me and not even bothering to read the whole thread before voting. You seriously think it's good for a town to vote without reading the whole thread first?
On January 29 2013 10:46 Acid~ wrote: I didn't have time after I finished with you and I started with you because you were the first to attract my attention.
Making an FoS on me without reading the whole thread - OK fine. Voting for anybody before reading the whole thread - not OK.
Your rejection of my response to Acid~ is valid. I'll review the thread and if I can find anything he's posted that I don't feel was already addressed in my filter, I'll explain it. I'm happy to answer questions, just not from Acid~ or Sn0man on their case against me, because I think it's a waste of time to defend myself further.
Again, if anybody wants answers to the questions Acid~ is asking, they're right there in my filter. You just gotta take the time to read.
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On January 29 2013 11:29 zarepath wrote:Town can be confident in their defense; it costs little to make because you don't have to lie.
I am confident in my already existing defence to Sn0man's attack's against me. As far as I can tell, Acid~ is attacking me for the same exact reasons, so by association I've defended myself against Acid~'s attack already.
Zare, you're a smart guy. Can you point out anything in Acid~'s attack that differs from the attacks Sn0man made against me earlier? I looked, but I didn't see anything.
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I think you are both being ridiculously hasty in your votes.
Remember this? Or was it lost in the "absolute chaos" of D1?
On January 26 2013 12:39 cDgCorazon wrote: Don't get confirmation bias. Explore all possible options before voting, and make sure your vote is serious. In my opinion, a vote should not be used to get information about someone unless they have been called out for lack of activity before. A FoS (finger of suspicion) is sufficient enough when first pressuring someone for information. I'm all fine with pressure voting for someone after you've given them the FoS or some other sort of warning, but if you are going to vote, make sure you mean it. It will show the town that your vote means business, instead of trivial matters that could be solved without voting.
So please, make serious arguments on each other instead of pressure voting and OMGUSing...
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I'm voting for Acid~ because I think his extreme lack of effort is either useless for town, or indicative of scum. Read Acid~'s filter. Read the thread. Tell me how he's contributing anything original.
I honestly don't care that he voted for me. I'll probably care more if more people vote for me, but right now I'm not very impressed with anything Acid~ has for this entire game.
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No FoS? No type of warning? No asking him for opinions on others? No asking him how he feels about this or that event? Zare summed it up nicely:
On January 29 2013 11:29 zarepath wrote: If you truly suspected Acid to be scum, you would encourage him to post more and welcome his analysis so you could scour it for evidence, not lash out at him while refusing to defend yourself in any way. Town can be confident in their defense; it costs little to make because you don't have to lie.
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Gah, his case against me is such bullshit I want to break it down for you.
Acid~ complains that I'm not actually scumhunting. This is an old complaint from his 3rd post in D1 that I've done my best to address. If he thinks my scumhunting is so bad, well, I'll just do my best to get better. Other than that, why is he trying to discourage me from scum hunting? What possible motive could that have?
Acid~ rumbles about numbers that aren't even relevant anymore, since D1 was already over. This is what happened: I responded to Corazon's mistake and extrapolated on top of it. Corazon made a mistake, I didn't catch it and made some comments based on a false assumption. I believe Corazon shares the blame with me on this, so you can refer to his defense for more details. Maybe Acid~ with his amazing math skills could have helped clear things up AT THE TIME, but he didn't. There is no excuse is for this useless behavior.
Acid~ says that he now has a strong scum read on me because using responding to someone else's faulty math is treason. I guess Corazon is a traitor too, then.
Acid~ complains about my votes, but he didn't even vote D1, and then he voted D2 after admitting he hadn't read the thread.
I told myself I wasn't going to defend Acid~'s aggression any more. But his case is such horse crap that it makes him look scummy. He was already 3rd on my list of scum, but now he's #1.
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On January 29 2013 12:23 cDgCorazon wrote:No FoS? No type of warning? No asking him for opinions on others? No asking him how he feels about this or that event? Zare summed it up nicely: Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 11:29 zarepath wrote: If you truly suspected Acid to be scum, you would encourage him to post more and welcome his analysis so you could scour it for evidence, not lash out at him while refusing to defend yourself in any way. Town can be confident in their defense; it costs little to make because you don't have to lie.
I have asked EVERYONE multiple times for several opinions on others, and very few people have responded. Guess who always failed to respond? Acid~.
I have directly called Acid~ out the fact that he hasn't commented on anyone else. I've been waiting 72+ hours for Acid~ to make useful comments and so far he has failed. How much longer do I have to wait?
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Hey look, justification! Now maybe if you did that before the vote we could take you seriously...
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He said he has analysis on others forthcoming -- at least, that's the assumption I got based off the fact that he started with you first and is going down the line.
I am not going to get into this anymore. I will ignore everything you say about Acid now so you'd better start analyzing elsewhere.
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On January 29 2013 11:02 warbaby wrote: ##Vote: Acid~
I still have my suspicions about Sn0man, but I can't see a town motivation in Acid~ voting me right now. Town is in good shape aftering dodging N1 kill, anyone throwing around votes right now should have put in enough effort to analyze D1 in it's totality, which Acid~ admits he has not even bothered to do.
I'm just fucking repeating myself, Corazon, and pointing out shit that should be obvious to anyone who actually read Acid~'s filter, or god forbid, the thread.
Fuck off and do some work for a change. It's extremely hard for me to scumhunt when you all sit around with your thumbs up your ass expecting me to hand everything to you on a fucking silver platter.
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Once again WB, if you're gonna claim that I'm not doing any work, please read the thread again. YOU wasted the first half of the day having a spat with Sn0 and Acid and YOU are the one wasting our time with these silly votes now. You think you're doing work when in fact you're just distracting us from the real scumhunt.
Now before you say I'm defending Acid, I'm waiting for his response to my FoS.
You've given a reason for voting, but it's nothing that and FoS can solve. Did you read any of my early posts?
You're expecting me to find scum without giving a chance for them to explain yourselves. How is that good scum hunting? Your emotional defense is terribly uncalled for, and the fact that you and Acid are trying to tunnel the shit out of each other is just closing off other options that could be explored is ridiculously scummy behavior. I really can't tell which one of you is scum. Prove to me that you can give us alternate scum besides Acid.
FoS: Warbaby
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I don't accusing you of defending Acid~. I accuse you of not bothering to connect the dots and think for yourself. Of course I read your early posts because I've actually commented on them. In my filter. Which is there for you to read.
I thought about it some more, and there is one town motivation Acid~ could have for voting me, which is to pressure me because he needs a better read.
If that's his reasoning, I would have to rethink my case on him. I'm not saying I'll unvote him if, in 24 hours when he gets back from work (who works for 24 hours? isn't that illegal in germany?) he just says, "Yes warbaby I was pressuring you to get a better read." He needs think up some way to make actions that demonstrate this motive.
He needs to literally make up for the fact that he blatantly broke the rules, and spat in town's face, by failing to vote D1. And so far he has not done that.
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Warbaby's case against Acid~ 1) He plays like shit day one and fails to vote. 2) He comes back day 2, with a completely unacceptable excuse. If he has 24 hour work shifts, he should not be signing up for mafia games. 3) He admits he didn't even read the whole thread, and pops a gigantic case (that largely echoes stuff Sn0man already said, so it's not like he even made that much effort -- mostly the math stuff is original, but I'm not even the one who fucked up the math in the first place). 4) The case is largely bullshit. I've also made a bullshit cases, to pressure people, but... 5) If he's trying to pressure me, it's a shitty way to do it, because he'll be gone for 24 hours.
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All I want you to do Warbaby, is make a case on someone other than Acid. Unvote him, and if he says something stupid or makes a scummy move (which I am on the watch for as well) then you can capitalize on that and use that to justify your arguments.
I'm asking you to do this to turn the question from D2 from "should we lynch Acid or not" for the majority of the day to "how can we find the other scum ("the other scum" for you because you think Acid is scum) and get them lynched as well?"
You're getting tunnel syndrome, it's dangerous for town. If you're town, you'll drop this now and either bring it up closer to the lynch or bring it up another day.
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That's the most sensible thing you've said in a while, Corazon. I have already and will continue to make cases against other players. But right now I'm really pissed at Acid~ for playing so poorly.
Did you fail to note the fact that I've already named 2 other players I suspect of being scum?
Do you want me to make some bullshit case against you? Feeling left out?
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On January 27 2013 15:58 warbaby wrote: In response to your two posts that weren't lists, Corazon, I agree.
I thought you didn't like lists?
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I don't, and I've made exactly one list in this game, which was the will I linked.
Why did you ignore my scumreads from that will and accuse me of tunelling Acid~? Explain this.
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On January 29 2013 08:35 warbaby wrote: (lists are cool but I don't really count them as significant contributions)
This seems to support my last post. It's also hypocritical to say that you don't like lists and then make a long list post. Care to explain?
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On January 29 2013 08:35 warbaby wrote: (lists are cool but I don't really count them as significant contributions) [/QUOTE]
This is called being facetious. Who the fuck cares what I think about lists (no really, someone else comment on this accusation please). Why did you make shit up about my scumreads?
I'd love to hear what others think of Cora either not reading my will, or choosing to ignore it until I brought it up.
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On January 29 2013 13:56 warbaby wrote: I don't, and I've made exactly one list in this game, which was the will I linked.
Why did you ignore my scumreads from that will and accuse me of tunelling Acid~? Explain this.
You didn't make scum reads, you made a whole bunch of null reads and some "maybe scum reads". You, Sn0, and Acid spent half of Day 1 arguing with each other. Acid has been tunneling you the whole game. I know its tempting to just OMGUS and vote for him, but that's just throwing in the towel for D2. Maybe if you didn't spend so much time talking about how Acid is scum, you could pursue your other "leads"?
If you make two comments about why you don't like lists, why do you make one? It's so fucking hypocritical.
You're acting like a cross the little boy who stands on the corner selling newspapers and 6 girls gossiping at a sleepover... "Extra! Extra! Corazon accused me of doing something! OMG, like what do you think about this guys? OMG, that totally looks bad! Do you all think we should tunnel Corazon?"
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Just like when you argued with Acid the first time: I like the idea, I just disagree with the execution. The difference is the first time the execution was not detrimental to town because we had 2 lurkers. This time, it is being detrimental to town.
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I'm not throwing the towel in for D2. I never said I wouldn't unvote Acid~. Why are you implying I said these things?
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Because you voted him instead of FoS-ing, which is what you really should have done. By voting, you are saying you want to lynch him today. Saying it 10 minutes into D2 is throwing in the towel.
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It's fine if you want to pressure me Cora, but your case is so shitty it doesn't even make sense. How am I supposed to make a will without listing my thoughts?
Zarepath suggested we write wills, although I was then the only one to do so. Maybe you should jump on Zare now for being a hypocrite too.
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On January 29 2013 14:09 cDgCorazon wrote: Because you voted him instead of FoS-ing, which is what you really should have done. By voting, you are saying you want to lynch him today. Saying it 10 minutes into D2 is throwing in the towel.
How many minutes exactly must I wait before casting my vote, then? And why don't you criticize Acid~ for casting a vote immediately as well.
Again, your case is so bad it doesn't even make sense. Please try harder.
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On January 29 2013 14:04 cDgCorazon wrote: You didn't make scum reads, you made a whole bunch of null reads and some "maybe scum reads".
How is calling Sn0man "my #1 scum candidate" not a scum read. I even FoS'd him. Why has nobody responded to my FoS on Sn0man? It still stands.
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I am going to spell it out one more time for you. If you can't understand after this, then I'm done arguing with you.
First off, this is not a case against you. It's a plea to stop wasting our time.
You and Acid have been tunneling each other all game. Sure you have made other posts (whereas Acid has not), but the majority of your game has been preaching to us how Acid is an infidel and needs to be slain (you can tell how not agitated I am with you?).
If you were town, you would realize that you're either risking to not be taken seriously by unvoting for Acid after you've tunneled him so hard, or you're throwing in the towel for D2. Neither are good.
All I have asked for is for you to let things develop more in D2, and save your vote until you are sure you cannot find any stronger leads than Acid after seeing the events of D2. Imagine if everyone just sheeped with you when you voted Acid, this day would basically be useless for discussion.
I said with my very first post in the game that voting should be taken seriously, and pressure voting should be used after an FoS. You're obviously not listening to me, which has become a common theme in this game.
If you want to play the town fool, go ahead. You're just dragging us down.
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On January 29 2013 14:23 warbaby wrote: Why has nobody responded to my FoS on Sn0man? It still stands.
"Extra! Extra! I'm suspicious Sn0man is scum! OMG, like what do you think about this guys? OMG, that totally looks bad! Do you all think we should vote for Sn0?"
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On January 29 2013 14:30 cDgCorazon wrote:Sure you have made other posts (whereas Acid has not), but the majority of your game has been preaching to us how Acid is an infidel and needs to be slain (you can tell how not agitated I am with you?).
If anyone other than Corazon is reading this, look at my will again: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17656568
If I thought Acid~ was an "infidel and needs to be slain" for "the majority of the game" then why didn't I say so, for the majority of the game?
Corazon is clearly making shit up, and he is dodging my other accusations that his case FoS on me is also factually incorrect.
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"Extra! Extra! Corazon asking me to do something! OMG, like what do you think about this guys? OMG, Corazon is totally scum! I'm totally not overreacting, am I?"
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Whatever, man. Glad I got you to pick up your post rate for a while. You sure I didn't get a rise?
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I think your contributions would be more worthwhile if you made lists.
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I'll take that into consideration, thanks.
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On January 29 2013 14:09 cDgCorazon wrote:By voting, you are saying you want to lynch him today. Saying it 10 minutes into D2 is throwing in the towel.
OK, fine. I can't come up with any reason you're wrong about this. I don't currently think Zare is scum, and he's telling me to do this as well.
[b]##Unvote: Acid~ ##FoS: Acid~
By my own logic I find Acid~ scummier than Sn0man, currently. So I'm switching my middle finger of suspicion to Acid~.
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On January 29 2013 15:30 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 14:09 cDgCorazon wrote:By voting, you are saying you want to lynch him today. Saying it 10 minutes into D2 is throwing in the towel. OK, fine. I can't come up with any reason you're wrong about this. I don't currently think Zare is scum, and he's telling me to do this as well.
Noted....
I'll be looking through filters today between tasks at work, everybody's filter but warbaby for now. We are very focused on him right now as a town (not necessarily undeservedly) and I worry that too many are getting by without contributing because of that.
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On January 29 2013 20:15 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 15:30 warbaby wrote:On January 29 2013 14:09 cDgCorazon wrote:By voting, you are saying you want to lynch him today. Saying it 10 minutes into D2 is throwing in the towel. OK, fine. I can't come up with any reason you're wrong about this. I don't currently think Zare is scum, and he's telling me to do this as well. Noted.... I'll be looking through filters today between tasks at work, everybody's filter but warbaby for now. We are very focused on him right now as a town (not necessarily undeservedly) and I worry that too many are getting by without contributing because of that.
Sure, but in the main they haven't contributed anyway. At this point, I've pretty much decided, we are lynching warbaby if I can make it happen today. I'm sure I can be convinced otherwise but at this point I don't see what evidence is really gonna come up that is worse than warbaby's play.
What I would like to discuss right now is the night action. Remember that NOBODY DIED last night. The scenarios that I can think of for that are:
A) Mafia shit the bed (pretty unlikely given that they have a coach), B) Both mafia members are/were inactive (Cakepie... ) C) Town has a JailKeeper/Doctor who is a clairvoyant (this one seems the most likely).
In the case of C, however, there is an interesting distinction between having a JK and a Doc. If we have a Doc, they have a confirmed townie on their hands, although that isn't necessarily that helpful. If we have a JK, then they know that their target is EITHER mafia OR the mafia target last night. But they can't be certain which. That again is interesting.
I don't think B) could happen either, since Cakepie is the only TRULY afk player over the course of all of Night 1... although if anybody can come up with a plausible scumteam that was simply afk all night 1 I'm listening.
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And warbaby's case against Acid basically comes down to "He isn't checking back every hour posting pointless responses to my inane accusations. CLEARLY SCUM"
Admittedly, it would be nice to see consistent contribution with wide-ranging analysis from, well, everybody, but some people have other obligations.
Still kinda waiting on the big "I'm here" post from Cakepie. Having 0 posts (worth mentioning) between you and your predecessor is not a good pedigree.
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On January 30 2013 00:34 Sn0_Man wrote: Admittedly, it would be nice to see consistent contribution with wide-ranging analysis from, well, everybody, but some people have other obligations.
Having other obligations (SlayAlot) is different from being warned for playing the game improperly (Acid~). Acid~ has still not explained why he signed up for this game knowing he had 24 hour work shifts coming up, or why he thinks this is OK.
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Does signing up for a game you don't necessarily have the time to play a scum tell, Warbaby?
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On January 30 2013 01:55 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 00:34 Sn0_Man wrote: Admittedly, it would be nice to see consistent contribution with wide-ranging analysis from, well, everybody, but some people have other obligations. Having other obligations (SlayAlot) is different from being warned for playing the game improperly (Acid~). Acid~ has still not explained why he signed up for this game knowing he had 24 hour work shifts coming up, or why he thinks this is OK.
Apart from the fallacy of your logic,
What does that have to do with being scum? Pretend that Acid is this horrible guy that you make him out to be. He signed up without sufficient time to really participate. What makes that scummy? Keep in mind that he certainly didn't know alignment before he signed up...
You just need ways to attack the guys you don't like, the guys who are willing to challenge you.
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EBWOP:
Is signing up for a game you don't necessarily have the time to play a scum tell, warbaby?
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On January 30 2013 00:23 Sn0_Man wrote: C) Town has a JailKeeper/Doctor who is a clairvoyant (this one seems the most likely).
In the case of C, however, there is an interesting distinction between having a JK and a Doc. If we have a Doc, they have a confirmed townie on their hands, although that isn't necessarily that helpful. If we have a JK, then they know that their target is EITHER mafia OR the mafia target last night. But they can't be certain which. That again is interesting.
I don't think B) could happen either, since Cakepie is the only TRULY afk player over the course of all of Night 1... although if anybody can come up with a plausible scumteam that was simply afk all night 1 I'm listening.
I'd love to discuss what actually happened N1, which I see as a great win for town.
Note that there is one variation of the setup that allows for both JK and Doc (if I'm not reading the wiki wrong here -- love to see our authority on math and statistics, Acid~, to contribute on this point, but he's probably won't bother responding to this post, assuming he ever reads it).
If the blue is doc, should they claim? I don't think it was clairvoyant that nobody died N1 (and I think you sound like a sadscum by saying this), I think it was just damned lucky. Probably won't happen again, and there's a chance the Doc (if there is one) will be killed before they can do anything more useful.
If the doc exists and claims, and scum kills them, we end up with a 100% confirmed town and a no kill on Night 1. Is this good for town?
I'm not sure if this makes sense. I haven't put a lot of thought into reasons and possible results around town power role claims.
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On January 30 2013 02:00 zarepath wrote: EBWOP:
Is signing up for a game you don't necessarily have the time to play a scum tell, warbaby?
No, but I think the only reason he could have voted for me as town is to pressure me, and I don't know how he plans to effectively pressure me if he's not here. I think that's somewhat scummy. He also admitted to not reading the whole thread before voting, which is super scummy. Both you, Zare, and Corazon called me out for voting rashly. At least I read the whole thread first =_=
If Acid~ was just modkilled N1 for breaking the rules I wouldn't be making this argument. I think it sucks that he's still in this game and STILL RIGHT NOW AT THIS VERY MINUTE failing to contribute, without any acceptable explanation. I also think he lied when he said he had to go to work for 24 hours. A) He posted again like an hour later. B) I assume working for 24 hours straight in Germany is illegal because they have strict labor laws.
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On January 30 2013 02:04 warbaby wrote: If the blue is doc, should they claim? I believe accepted theory in these games is that blues only claim when they are a) up for mislynch or b) in a MYLO/LYLO situation. I'm not sure I 100% agree with the theory, but I believe that is it.
On January 30 2013 02:04 warbaby wrote: I don't think it was clairvoyant that nobody died N1 (and I think you sound like a sadscum by saying this), I think it was just damned lucky. Probably won't happen again, and there's a chance the Doc (if there is one) will be killed before they can do anything more useful.
Clairvoyant, as a term, has its roots in french. Clair = clear, Voyant = seeing. Together, they are "Clear-seeing". The connotation is generally associated with future-sight. I'd say clairvoyant is a pretty good way to describe our Doc/JK after they successfully saved a townie (or blocked the mafia performing the KP, either or). They saw through the situation clearly, and predicted who was gonna get hit (or in the case of a JK, they may have predicted who is mafia). Obviously the chances of pulling it off again are not that high, but everybody knows that.
Baseless accusations that I "sound like sadscum" are somewhat interesting, but they only help town by demonstrating your scumminess really.
Either way, I really wish PM's were allowed in this game
Still waiting on something (anything) from Cakepie
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At face value your points about blue claims make a lot of sense, Sn0man, thank you. I'll think about this some more and let you know if I have any more questions or comments on this point.
I don't believe in the supernatural, so I simply can't accept your claim of clairvoyance.
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Wouldn't an amazingly clairvoyant doctor be much more valuable alive than role-claimed and dead? An unclaimed doctor can continue to save lives, while a roleclaimed doctor (this super-early in the game) only confirms one town, and in a situation where one confirmed town does nothing but give free targets to mafia after they kill the doctor.
I think what Sn0_Man said about blue claim theory makes the most sense for now -- wait until you're going to get mislynched or you're in a MYLO/LYLO situation, or at least near one.
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Warbaby, why are you all over Acid for not contributing more, but not all over Slayalot? From what I can tell, the entire extent of your case on Acid comes from him not posting as much as you'd like, and Slayalot is definitely within the same realm and never produced as rigorous a case as Acid did on you.
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On January 30 2013 02:26 warbaby wrote: I don't believe in the supernatural, so I simply can't accept your claim of clairvoyance. ???
I didn't say the blue did some voodoo ritual to divine who they should target...
I said the blue had "clear view", that they saw through the situation and acted accordingly.
Please tell me you guys see this shit he's pulling as scummy? Trying to associate my arguments with belief in the supernatural, saying that being impressed with the save makes me sound like sadscum, I mean come on.
##Vote: warbaby
I want this vote down and ready. As of now, the onus is on YOU (warbaby) to either a) prove your innocence or b) demonstrate extremely convincingly why somebody who is NOT you is scum.
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Zare, I'm holding off on SlayAlot now because I feel like he gave a decent excuse for why he's not playing up to par. And he actually voted D1, which Acid~ did not.
Sn0_man, I misunderstood what you were getting at, and I was also just making a silly joke. So far my scum reads are on Acid~, you, and glurio. I tried to make a case on Cora while we were sparring last night, but I don't think it makes sense to pursue him any more right now. I think he was very town in his sparring with me.
You're asking me to make a case against someone other than Acid~. Since I will immediately be accused of OMGUS if I make a case on you, Sn0_man (who I currently claim is my #2 scum read), I guess that leaves Glurio.
I'll review the thread and see if I can make a case on Glurio, or someone else other than Sn0_man and Acid~. That's a totally reasonable request to make of me given my play so far.
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On January 30 2013 03:44 warbaby wrote: You're asking me to make a case against someone other than Acid~. Since I will immediately be accused of OMGUS if I make a case on you, Sn0_man (who I currently claim is my #2 scum read), I guess that leaves Glurio.
Not quite true but OK. All you have to do is convince me to vote for somebody else. I've heard your arguments on your "#1 scum read" Acid. Feel free to keep banging away but so far it isn't convincing me of anything beyond your scumminess. If you wish to attempt to convince me that I am scum, feel free. I expect it would be about as effective as anything else you are gonna try.
On January 30 2013 02:38 Sn0_Man wrote: As of now, the onus is on YOU (warbaby) to ... demonstrate extremely convincingly why somebody who is NOT you is scum.
I'm interested to hear your take on glurio though. I thought that his play this game is much like his play last game: lurky, low contribution, but kinda excited to be playing and just not too familiar with how he should act. Seemed pretty townie to me in that light, but by all means show me what he has done that is scum-motivated.
One thing to clear up, and this is directed at ALL PLAYERS: just because somebody hasn't posted as much as you want them to, doesn't make them scum. It isn't "scummy" to disappear for 12+ hours. Admittedly, it isn't helping town, but this is a newbie game and there are many players that simply won't put the time in. If you wish to argue that "person X" is abusing this fact, demonstrate exactly how their actions are scum motivated and how the answers that they HAVE provided are crafted from a scum perspective.
Lynching lurkers incessantly is not at all a surefire way to get scum.
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In list form due to popular demand. (That "popular demand" bit was also a joke, in case you got confused, Sn0. Let me know if you need help tying your shoes or anything.).
Warbaby's case on Glurio 1) Most of glurio's posts are backing up someone else's stated opinion, although he does add some of his own analysis. First he backed me on Acid~, then he backed Sn0_man against me. I think this makes it look like he's not doing his best to think for himself. 1.a) A majority of glurio's posts are backing up sn0_man and tunneling me, but he never explains why he thinks sn0 is town (assuming they are collaborating as town, not scum). Does glurio think sn0_man is town, and what evidence is that based on? I'd like Glurio to respond to this. 2) Glurio's D1 vote on SkaPunk was kind of pointless, and could be seen as bussing Ska. Ska was already set to be lynched when glurio voted Ska, so I'm not sure if glurio was really helping us pressure Ska, or just voting to make sure town Ska got lynched. 3) We're well into D2, and glurio's filter is less than a page long. This level of contribution is not going to hinder other towns from making a read on glurio.
Now that I've made a case on someone other than Sn0 and Acid~, maybe Sn0 and Acid~ can make a case on someone other than me.
They're tunneling me hardcore, it's hypocritical for Sn0 criticize me for tunneling at the same time.
Also, Sn0 I agree with your last paragraph there. That's exactly why I think what Slayalot is doing is not scummy. But Acid~ failed to vote D1. That's against the rules and anti-town. 12 hours is ok like you say. 24 is not.
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EBWOP: Glurio's level of contribution is ONLY going to hinder other towns from making a read on glurio.
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On January 30 2013 04:15 warbaby wrote: EBWOP: Glurio's level of contribution is ONLY going to hinder other towns from making a read on glurio.
Scumslip. You know he's town, proven by the phrase "other towns". The fact that you a) have this info and b) are still making an argument against him... yeah.
Nice one.
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What? It was a hypothetical. Imagine Glurio is town. Imagine you are town. How is his level of contribution going to help you identify him as town?
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On January 30 2013 04:13 warbaby wrote:it's hypocritical for Sn0 criticize me for tunneling at the same time.
I also don't think I've ever even mentioned you tunnelling, much less criticized you for it, so putting that in your post was pretty unnecessary.
Either way, all this flailing about isn't helping you.
I just wish we had more people around posting.
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On January 30 2013 04:40 Sn0_Man wrote: Either way, all this flailing about isn't helping you.
You ask me to make a case. I make a case. You accuse me of "flailing about". I'm sticking to one of my earlier scumreads, and making the case you asked for. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
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On January 30 2013 04:40 Sn0_Man wrote: I also don't think I've ever even mentioned you tunnelling, much less criticized you for it, so putting that in your post was pretty unnecessary.
I thought the whole reason you asked me to make a case on someone else, was because you thought I was tunneling Acid~. Sorry if I misunderstood your motive.
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Okay guys, yesterday's work took longer than I expected and left me too exhausted to properly devote to the game, so I've only just started catching up this morning. Just got up to speed (Pg 15) on my notes but not ready with solid cases yet, plus I really need to dash out real soon. I will post more when I get back later tonight, but for now I want to point out a few things briefly:
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1. I count N1 as a qualified success in that no one died. Sn0 discussed:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 00:23 Sn0_Man wrote:What I would like to discuss right now is the night action. Remember that NOBODY DIED last night. The scenarios that I can think of for that are: A) Mafia shit the bed (pretty unlikely given that they have a coach), B) Both mafia members are/were inactive (Cakepie... ) C) Town has a JailKeeper/Doctor who is a clairvoyant (this one seems the most likely). In the case of C, however, there is an interesting distinction between having a JK and a Doc. If we have a Doc, they have a confirmed townie on their hands, although that isn't necessarily that helpful. If we have a JK, then they know that their target is EITHER mafia OR the mafia target last night. But they can't be certain which. That again is interesting.
As warbaby also pointed out, there is a possibility of both JK and Doc being present, so you must not discount that.
This takes me to the next point:
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2. Nobody has made any claim of being roleblocked. (All roleblocked targets are notified if they were blocked successfully).
Hence, either: a. there is no jailkeeper, or b. someone is hiding something, and the j/k knows this.
Note that (b) is reliable even if there are both doc and j/k in the game. A doc, if present in this game, cannot assume that the nokill is due to a successful save by them -- it may be due to success by a possible jk. Whereas the j/k at this point can conclude that their N1 target has chosen to not reveal that they got roleblocked. And in a newbie game, that is equivalent to a lie.
However I don't think that this information is valuable enough to be worth a roleclaim so early in the game. Careful crumbing might be useful. (likewise with the doc's possible confirmed townie)
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3. Guys, remember that the bad guys have a rolecop as well.
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4.
On January 30 2013 00:23 Sn0_Man wrote: [...] Cakepie is the only TRULY afk player over the course of all of Night 1... I replaced into the game with 2h remaining in N1 phase, in the middle of my workday. Be reasonable about it.
In fact, you'll have to bear with a couple days of reduced participation from me as I was not expecting to have to replace in this early:
On January 25 2013 03:09 cakepie wrote: I was postponing my signup since I'm still going to be fairly busy for the next week or so and the roster wasn't filling up, but if you guys are moving to a 9P setup then I'll just /replacement I have to teach a 90 min lecture in an hour from now and another one in two days, the prep work for that has been keeping me fairly busy. I'll try to devote as much of my free time as possible, but my schedule really only starts to open up toward the end of the week.
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Yay a post.
First off, I'm 90% sure that jailkeeping never results in notifications of any sort, (that includes roleblock notifications) but I could be wrong. It isn't too specific in the OP.
Next, a scum role-cop isn't really affecting our play at all. They may hit, they may miss, we can't do much about it. Honestly, I think that its in their best interest to just NK anybody they suspect of being blue over role-copping them so...
I wasn't blaming you for being AFK, I was merely going over the possibility of the scum team actually just not being present as an explanation of the no-kill night. And then asserting that since only one person wasn't here, at least one scum was present to submit a night action.
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Not just a post, but a good one. Two in a row, even!
I'm not using this in a case against him, but just because Acid~ didn't post during N1 doesn't mean he didn't submit a night action. I would kind of expect a scum who both fails to vote D1 and fails to submit a night action N1 would be modkilled, not just warned. If both Acid~ and cake were scum, he should have been modkilled as well (unless he submitted a night action without bothering to post for the majority of D2 and all of N1).
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On January 30 2013 04:13 warbaby wrote: 2) Glurio's D1 vote on SkaPunk was kind of pointless, and could be seen as bussing Ska.
EBWOP: bandwagoning Ska, not bussing him. Obviously Ska is not scum so he can't be bussed.
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Acid posted a seriously long post N1. I find it hard to believe that he could write all that post and not bother submitting an action. Which doesn't rule him out as scum, but it rather rules out the "2 afk scum" theory that was fairly unlikely in the first place.
Looking forward to reads from Cakepie and his fresh eyes, although I understand he is busy.
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At around page 14, I made up my mind, that I would explain why warbaby was back on my radar, and why. But several people have already made cases against warbaby.
The only thing I see, that hasn't been touched on, is the fact that he is really being very nice to me. (Sorry for not finding the quotes) But first he said that he thought I could have been a good player, if I just had more time on my hands. (But is that actually what you guys are getting from reading my filter??) And secondly. He totally thinks it's ok that I suddenly haven't got the same amount of time to read/post. It makes me wonder why he is suddenly being so nice to me.
But. That being said. I think we're making a huge mistake not exploring / hunting other people. I see you guys are talking about tunneling this and that. From what I see, we're all tunneling warbaby too much. More posts about him won't help change anything. And that means wasting time. Also It's a free pass for the other scum (or 2 other scum). So for the remaining time of day 2 - Let's explore everyone els. I'm willing to even say, that I find further tunneling on warbaby as a scummy sign.
And I will be the first to try and exit "the tunnel"
Besides warbaby, I think Acid is looking scummy.
Poor activity day 1 First "real post" had a #FOS on warbaby Seeing as this got the response he was looking for He posts a very aggressive second post. With words like "treason" and "Explain or die!" Which seems overly aggressive to me. If you wanted to be heard, why not keep your cool? You know how warbaby is very very active, and tries to anwser everything he is acussed of, so was it nessecary to write "Explain or die"?
Scum-radar: #1 - Warbaby #2 - Acid
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Yeah, you're right. I messed up the chronology. I'm getting really tired and will probably head out now. I should be back by 9am (EST) tomorrow.
Thanks for posting a bunch more, Sn0_man. I still don't agree with a number of things you've said, but if you're town and pushing me to get a better read, then you're being decent about it and I appreciate that. I really don't like how Acid~ just took off after his rather fast vote on me =/
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EBWOP: Sn0 was right about Acid posting a big post during N1, that is.
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On January 30 2013 06:31 warbaby wrote: Yeah, you're right. I messed up the chronology. I'm getting really tired and will probably head out now. I should be back by 9am (EST) tomorrow.
Thanks for posting a bunch more, Sn0_man. I still don't agree with a number of things you've said, but if you're town and pushing me to get a better read, then you're being decent about it and I appreciate that. I really don't like how Acid~ just took off after his rather fast vote on me =/
There we go. This is the kind of post that Mocsta could never bring himself to. It is still way too much of a flip-flop from previous to make me really believe that you are town, but this is serious progress.
@Slayalot: I'll go through acid's filter again, but I hope you are aware that it is fairly unlikely that BOTH your top two reads are scum due to their interaction so far. Some consideration of that may be in order.
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On January 30 2013 06:27 Slayalot wrote: The only thing I see, that hasn't been touched on, is the fact that he is really being very nice to me. (Sorry for not finding the quotes) But first he said that he thought I could have been a good player, if I just had more time on my hands. (But is that actually what you guys are getting from reading my filter??)
Before, I head out, I'll explain my logic here: you claim to be a school teacher (a claim I accept, why would you lie about it pre-game?). School teachers have to teach a whole class children/teenagers, who can be incredibly hard to control when in groups of 5 or more unless you use psychological tricks and word play. So I think your profession makes you well suited for playing this game, because this is a game of word play and psychology. I hope that makes sense. tl;dr I'm bias for teachers.
I was also just trying to keep you interested in the game, because I feel that when you do make posts, they're pretty good.
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On January 30 2013 05:25 Sn0_Man wrote: I'm 90% sure that jailkeeping never results in notifications of any sort, (that includes roleblock notifications) but I could be wrong. It isn't too specific in the OP.
Turns out I was WRONG.
Pursuant to PM's with the host, any player who was jailkept would recieve a roleblock notification.
So either:
A) we don't have a jailkeeper. Eminently possible.
B) our Jailkeeper JK'd scum, who didn't wish to claim (somewhat understandable).
C) our JailKeeper JK'd town, who for some unknown reason didn't claim.
Just so we are on the same page, and since this is a newbie mafia, I'll remind everybody that it is common in mafia to immediately notify town if you were roleblocked during the night, regardless of your role (including VT). Feel free to ask coaches about this.
As such, any townie who recieved a RoleBlock notification should claim it ASAP (it isn't too late).
After a bit of time has passed and everybody has read the thread, we can start working on which option it is.
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On January 29 2013 10:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
Now to the scumhunting part. The problem I'm having with Acid right now is that all he has done the whole game is tunneled Warbaby. I know he's going after his scum read, but most of his posts have been in his argument with WB and attacking WB. I made an argument against him asking for a reply, and it has completely ignored in his pursuit to have Warbaby lynched at all costs. Ignoring an argument is an automatic FoS for me. If he was town, why would he ignore an argument made against him. If he is truly innocent, he can explain his behavior, not ignore me and hope it blows over.
FoS: Acid~
I didn't reply to your argument because it doesn't make any sense.
Of course I automatically assume scumhunting is a good reason to be a jerk, that's exactly the point I was making. What is there to discuss?
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On January 29 2013 11:02 warbaby wrote:Oh, hey Acid~, good of you to drop in. Thought you weren't going to be back for another ">24 hours". I'm not going to explain my D1 actions any more. I already explained them enough. Anyone who wants answers to Acid~'s questions are invited to review my filter. If anyone (other than Acid~ and Sn0man) are still not satisfied, I will answer their specific questions. Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 10:46 Acid~ wrote: Also, you did not "scumhunt" by your interaction with Snoman and me. You talked and you were meek in your accusations. ##Vote: warbaby
If my was so meek, why did you get so pissed off at me in your second post of the thread, when I pressured you? ##Vote: Acid~I still have my suspicions about Sn0man, but I can't see a town motivation in Acid~ voting me right now. Town is in good shape aftering dodging N1 kill, anyone throwing around votes right now should have put in enough effort to analyze D1 in it's totality, which Acid~ admits he has not even bothered to do.
I managed to check the thread before going to bed, am I allowed to do this? Can I please have your permission to live my life how I see fit?
My town motivation in voting you is because I think you are scum, I posted a big case against you and I want to see you talk and I want to see how other people respond to the case, because this gives me information on their and your alignment.
This is pretty basic stuff, even for a newbie game.
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On January 29 2013 11:44 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 11:29 zarepath wrote: And what the heck is this about criticizing someone for throwing around their vote too early D2, and therefore, you immediately vote for them? You have hardly any consistency in your stances or opinions. I criticize Acid~ for doing nothing but tunnel me and not even bothering to read the whole thread before voting. You seriously think it's good for a town to vote without reading the whole thread first?Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 10:46 Acid~ wrote: I didn't have time after I finished with you and I started with you because you were the first to attract my attention.
Making an FoS on me without reading the whole thread - OK fine. Voting for anybody before reading the whole thread - not OK. Your rejection of my response to Acid~ is valid. I'll review the thread and if I can find anything he's posted that I don't feel was already addressed in my filter, I'll explain it. I'm happy to answer questions, just not from Acid~ or Sn0man on their case against me, because I think it's a waste of time to defend myself further. Again, if anybody wants answers to the questions Acid~ is asking, they're right there in my filter. You just gotta take the time to read.
I never said I didn't read the whole thread, you are lying again warbaby and it's not a good thing to do in your position.
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EBWOP: also, no you did not answer my questions in your filter, otherwise I wouldn't have fucking asked them.
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@Acid: There are 2 scum this game. Who is scum 2.0? we are well aware of your prime scum read, who is asleep atm anyways.
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On January 29 2013 12:31 warbaby wrote:Gah, his case against me is such bullshit I want to break it down for you. Acid~ complains that I'm not actually scumhunting. This is an old complaint from his 3rd post in D1 that I've done my best to address. If he thinks my scumhunting is so bad, well, I'll just do my best to get better. Other than that, why is he trying to discourage me from scum hunting? What possible motive could that have?
I'm not trying to discourage you from scumhunting, I'm asking you to cut the bullshit and scumhunt. This is not the first time that you misrepresent what I say.
Acid~ rumbles about numbers that aren't even relevant anymore, since D1 was already over. This is what happened: I responded to Corazon's mistake and extrapolated on top of it. Corazon made a mistake, I didn't catch it and made some comments based on a false assumption. I believe Corazon shares the blame with me on this, so you can refer to his defense for more details. Maybe Acid~ with his amazing math skills could have helped clear things up AT THE TIME, but he didn't. There is no excuse is for this useless behavior.
The numbers are relevant because they show that you (and corazon) made a "mistake". A mistake so bad that I caught it. I don't have "amazing" math skills, I'm a lit major. It was two Google searches to check the statistics claim: "calculating probabilities" and "how to multiply fractions". 15 minutes of work. Would take 5 for someone with a high school level in math. If you can't be assed to do that, then don't fucking call me useless. I was not around at the time because I was working and I'm not going to apologize to YOU for working.
There's a reason I wasn't modkilled, so think about that for a second before bringing it up again.
Acid~ says that he now has a strong scum read on me because using responding to someone else's faulty math is treason. I guess Corazon is a traitor too, then.
Maybe he is and I'll look into that.
Acid~ complains about my votes, but he didn't even vote D1, and then he voted D2 after admitting he hadn't read the thread.
You're lying again. I never said I didn't read the thread. I did read the thread. In fact, you can see from the timestamps in my posts "re-reading the thread right now" (when you RE something, what does it mean, Einstein?) and then posting again 2 hours laters, after I finished RE-reading. Do you even logic? At all? Have you ever?
I told myself I wasn't going to defend Acid~'s aggression any more. But his case is such horse crap that it makes him look scummy. He was already 3rd on my list of scum, but now he's #1.
Sorry, but everything you say is bullshit from start to finish. You lie, you misrepresent and you attack me because you know that for a long time I'm not going to be able to defend myself. You're the most obvious scum there ever was, even worse than Spag last game. There is literally nothing you have ever said or done in this thread that was productive in any way.
You still haven't responded to my case, btw.
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Alright, so after taking Acid's response into account, here is my action for D2 (barring something crazy).
To me, this day has come down to "Should we lynch WB or Acid?". I believe that it has come down to this question for most others as it regards to the lynch.
Warbaby's erratic behavior made me very suspicious at first, I must admit. However, his brashness and unwilling to unvote Acid (even though voting for him early is a terrible idea) actually gave me a better feeling that he was town. The biggest thing that a scum has to worry about is their reputation with the rest of the town. A scum knows that he has to make sure no one else thinks he is scum so he can push his agenda forward and not be under suspicion. A town player would not care how others think about them because he knows he is town and has nothing to hide. Warbaby's behavior has seemed to follow these ideals. If he was scum, he would've listened to me and halted his aggression way before he did. The FoS definitely would've been enough for him to listen to me. Scum are afraid of getting lynched, so even threatening a vote would be enough to shut a scum down. Since it didn't phase WB, I believe that he is town not being afraid of his image in order to get the scum lynched. On top of that, scum would not tunnel a town so hard because once the town flipped, the mislynch would be on the scum's head and the scum would be the next likely to go.
On the other hand, Acid has been ridiculously dodgy the entire game. In a town where inactivity has been a problem, he has been part of the inactivity problem. He dodges my argument, and only after he is pressured about it does he say that it wasn't relevant. The timing of his defense is ridiculously shady, almost 2 days after the original pressure. If he wanted to call my argument out as BS, he should've done so at his first opportunity, not chosen to ignore it. Telling me that my idea is stupid is how town bounces ideas off of each other and becomes more efficient as a scumhunting machine. By ignoring it until pressured, it's basically him saying that he's dodging it still.
The final straw is the voting history. Scum do not care who gets voted off as long as it's not one of them. WB voted, Acid didn't. There's no way Acid could not have spared 5 minutes to vote, even if he knew he was going to be working for a long shift. I don't buy the work stuff. At least jump on a wagon or vote no-lynch if you don't have time to vote. It's not being busy, it's disinterest in the vote. It's scummy.
At the end of the day, would I rather vote for the town jester or the shady guy on the corner asking people if they want to have fun?
For these reasons:
##Vote: Acid~
If anyone has any questions, feel free to let me know.
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On January 29 2013 13:33 warbaby wrote: I don't accusing you of defending Acid~. I accuse you of not bothering to connect the dots and think for yourself. Of course I read your early posts because I've actually commented on them. In my filter. Which is there for you to read.
I thought about it some more, and there is one town motivation Acid~ could have for voting me, which is to pressure me because he needs a better read.
If that's his reasoning, I would have to rethink my case on him. I'm not saying I'll unvote him if, in 24 hours when he gets back from work (who works for 24 hours? isn't that illegal in germany?) he just says, "Yes warbaby I was pressuring you to get a better read." He needs think up some way to make actions that demonstrate this motive.
He needs to literally make up for the fact that he blatantly broke the rules, and spat in town's face, by failing to vote D1. And so far he has not done that.
Obviously in the last 24 hours I've slept for 8 of them, like a normal human being. I have work, and I have work-related obligations. This is not the place to discuss my personal life, I apologized for missing the vote and I won't do it again so just drop it.
Also, you can try to goad me into a shitstorm but you're so transparent it's laughable. You can keep calling my country "Germany" if you want, it just makes me smile. I'm not 15.
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On January 30 2013 07:57 cDgCorazon wrote: Alright, so after taking Acid's response into account, here is my action for D2 (barring something crazy). ##Vote: Acid~
If anyone has any questions, feel free to let me know.
Keep in mind its a 48 hour day cycle so we have ~26 more hours to discuss/consider.
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If scum were JK'd last night, preventing their kill from going out, you'd think they would claim they were JK'd so that they could take credit for the option of just having been SAVED from mafia.
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Hmm, well that post I just made sounded bad. Basically I'm informing you that the deadline is NOT in 2 hours, but a day in 2 hours. You may already know that but your post sounded like you forgot about the long days.
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On January 30 2013 08:02 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 07:57 cDgCorazon wrote: Alright, so after taking Acid's response into account, here is my action for D2 (barring something crazy). ##Vote: Acid~
If anyone has any questions, feel free to let me know. Keep in mind its a 48 hour day cycle so we have ~26 more hours to discuss/consider.
Well I did not want to spring the case on Acid too late. Perhaps I did do it too early.
I was thinking about making the case about 7 hours from now, but I wasn't sure if Acid was going to have personal stuff or be sleeping or anything like that. I'm just giving him the time to respond. Plus he's here now so it seemed like a good time as well.
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On January 30 2013 08:03 zarepath wrote: If scum were JK'd last night, preventing their kill from going out, you'd think they would claim they were JK'd so that they could take credit for the option of just having been SAVED from mafia.
Maybe, especially since somebody knows who was roleblocked in that case.
This makes me think we have a doctor and no JK.
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On January 30 2013 08:05 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 08:03 zarepath wrote: If scum were JK'd last night, preventing their kill from going out, you'd think they would claim they were JK'd so that they could take credit for the option of just having been SAVED from mafia. Maybe, especially since somebody knows who was roleblocked in that case. This makes me think we have a doctor and no JK.
I agree with this. I think if JK saved us from the NK, then we would have a case by the JK out of the blue. The cases made today don't give off that vibe to me.
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On January 30 2013 08:05 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 08:02 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 30 2013 07:57 cDgCorazon wrote: Alright, so after taking Acid's response into account, here is my action for D2 (barring something crazy). ##Vote: Acid~
If anyone has any questions, feel free to let me know. Keep in mind its a 48 hour day cycle so we have ~26 more hours to discuss/consider. Well I did not want to spring the case on Acid too late. Perhaps I did do it too early. I was thinking about making the case about 7 hours from now, but I wasn't sure if Acid was going to have personal stuff or be sleeping or anything like that. I'm just giving him the time to respond. Plus he's here now so it seemed like a good time as well.
Your post included something about not changing unless something drastic happened. Made me think you thought deadline was coming up.
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On January 30 2013 08:11 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 08:05 cDgCorazon wrote:On January 30 2013 08:02 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 30 2013 07:57 cDgCorazon wrote: Alright, so after taking Acid's response into account, here is my action for D2 (barring something crazy). ##Vote: Acid~
If anyone has any questions, feel free to let me know. Keep in mind its a 48 hour day cycle so we have ~26 more hours to discuss/consider. Well I did not want to spring the case on Acid too late. Perhaps I did do it too early. I was thinking about making the case about 7 hours from now, but I wasn't sure if Acid was going to have personal stuff or be sleeping or anything like that. I'm just giving him the time to respond. Plus he's here now so it seemed like a good time as well. Your post included something about not changing unless something drastic happened. Made me think you thought deadline was coming up.
Yeah I mismanaged the time. However, I do mean that I will stick to Acid unless he provides a solid defense and stops tunneling WB.
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On January 30 2013 07:57 cDgCorazon wrote: Alright, so after taking Acid's response into account, here is my action for D2 (barring something crazy).
To me, this day has come down to "Should we lynch WB or Acid?". I believe that it has come down to this question for most others as it regards to the lynch.
Warbaby's erratic behavior made me very suspicious at first, I must admit. However, his brashness and unwilling to unvote Acid (even though voting for him early is a terrible idea) actually gave me a better feeling that he was town. The biggest thing that a scum has to worry about is their reputation with the rest of the town. A scum knows that he has to make sure no one else thinks he is scum so he can push his agenda forward and not be under suspicion. A town player would not care how others think about them because he knows he is town and has nothing to hide. Warbaby's behavior has seemed to follow these ideals. If he was scum, he would've listened to me and halted his aggression way before he did. The FoS definitely would've been enough for him to listen to me. Scum are afraid of getting lynched, so even threatening a vote would be enough to shut a scum down. Since it didn't phase WB, I believe that he is town not being afraid of his image in order to get the scum lynched. On top of that, scum would not tunnel a town so hard because once the town flipped, the mislynch would be on the scum's head and the scum would be the next likely to go.
On the other hand, Acid has been ridiculously dodgy the entire game. In a town where inactivity has been a problem, he has been part of the inactivity problem. He dodges my argument, and only after he is pressured about it does he say that it wasn't relevant. The timing of his defense is ridiculously shady, almost 2 days after the original pressure. If he wanted to call my argument out as BS, he should've done so at his first opportunity, not chosen to ignore it. Telling me that my idea is stupid is how town bounces ideas off of each other and becomes more efficient as a scumhunting machine. By ignoring it until pressured, it's basically him saying that he's dodging it still.
The final straw is the voting history. Scum do not care who gets voted off as long as it's not one of them. WB voted, Acid didn't. There's no way Acid could not have spared 5 minutes to vote, even if he knew he was going to be working for a long shift. I don't buy the work stuff. At least jump on a wagon or vote no-lynch if you don't have time to vote. It's not being busy, it's disinterest in the vote. It's scummy.
At the end of the day, would I rather vote for the town jester or the shady guy on the corner asking people if they want to have fun?
For these reasons:
##Vote: Acid~
If anyone has any questions, feel free to let me know.
This is getting ridiculous. First of all, I never said your argument wasn't relevant, I said it didn't make sense. And AGAIN, like I said, I didn't respond to it at first because I dismissed it. On the basis of it not making sense. I only replied to it just now because it seems you were about to use it as a justification for a vote and that was just silly.
Second, I did not know I was going to be working that long when I got called and my work is more important than your mafia. That's just the way it is.
If you really think inactivity is more of a scumtell than obviously scummy behavior, you're terrible at this game. And from I gather, you're not terrible at this game. Interesting.
Just to sum it up:
warbaby lies, twists my words in order to vote me AFTER I expose his scummy actions warbaby has a TOWN read on someone and lets that someone get lynched without a fight warbaby posts a LOT of posts with no content, only speculation and CLAIMS to scumhunt while never scumhunting
Acid posts a case against warbaby explaining, WITH QUOTES AND PROOF, how warbaby is acting scummy Acid misses a vote because of work
Can you, honestly, with a straight face, claim that you are town and believe Acid is the scummier player?
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On January 30 2013 07:43 Sn0_Man wrote: @Acid: There are 2 scum this game. Who is scum 2.0? we are well aware of your prime scum read, who is asleep atm anyways.
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On January 30 2013 07:43 Sn0_Man wrote: @Acid: There are 2 scum this game. Who is scum 2.0? we are well aware of your prime scum read, who is asleep atm anyways.
Then where are we on the lynching of the first scum? I'm not going to get off warbaby's case until he flips or someone presents a stronger case on someone else. I have other scumreads but they're not as strong.
There's no value in discussing them right now. IF I'm right about warbaby then I have a solid lead on the second one. If I'm wrong, then I have a different lead.
Just going to leave this here for you:
Corazon thinks warbaby's unwillingness to unvote me is a town tell. He also thinks the same thing from me is a scum tell. Why is that, in your opinion?
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On January 29 2013 13:42 warbaby wrote: Warbaby's case against Acid~ 1) He plays like shit day one
If this is a scum tell, you really need to be the first to go.
and fails to vote.
2) He comes back day 2, with a completely unacceptable excuse. If he has 24 hour work shifts, he should not be signing up for mafia games.
Again, you are lying. That is not what I said, nor implied. Why are you lying so much? Who the fuck has 24 hour "shifts"? Do you not ever sleep? Or do you play mafia in your sleep? Actually, that would explain a lot.
3) He admits he didn't even read the whole thread,
No, I didn't. Again, more lying.
and pops a gigantic case (that largely echoes stuff Sn0man already said, so it's not like he even made that much effort And MORE lying
-- mostly the math stuff is original, but I'm not even the one who fucked up the math in the first place). 4) The case is largely bullshit. I've also made a bullshit cases, to pressure people, but... 5) If he's trying to pressure me, it's a shitty way to do it, because he'll be gone for 24 hours.
My goal was to get people talking about the case, that's what people do. But, I have to give you credit: your conveniently timed "argument" with Corazon managed to pull attention away from the case and bury it behind five pages of useless bullshit.
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On January 30 2013 08:23 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 07:43 Sn0_Man wrote: @Acid: There are 2 scum this game. Who is scum 2.0? we are well aware of your prime scum read, who is asleep atm anyways. Corazon thinks warbaby's unwillingness to unvote me is a town tell. He also thinks the same thing from me is a scum tell. Why is that, in your opinion?
Where in my case against you did I say you not unvoting for WB was a scum tell?
The difference between your tunneling and WB's tunneling is that Warbaby has at least joined in the discussion about other players and other things. You've had two posts that did not have anything to deal with WB, and they are the two posts answering me.
You also dodged my argument. If you thought it didn't make sense you would've said so. No one else said it was BS, so why didn't you say it?
I told you both that if you were town, you would stop tunneling each other for the majority of D2. You insist on Warbaby being lynched, but how can we be sure of your town credibility if your scumhunting has only consisted of telling us why WB is so much scum?
You both have been completely useless to us, and you guys tunneling each other 10 minutes into D2 is hurting the town. You've brought nothing to the table, and you dodged my argument. When it comes to you and WB being on the chopping block, I'd rather pick someone who has shown at least a slight flash of actual scum hunting more than one person, and is not afraid to call out BS on my arguments and does not act shady.
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On January 30 2013 02:04 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 00:23 Sn0_Man wrote: C) Town has a JailKeeper/Doctor who is a clairvoyant (this one seems the most likely).
In the case of C, however, there is an interesting distinction between having a JK and a Doc. If we have a Doc, they have a confirmed townie on their hands, although that isn't necessarily that helpful. If we have a JK, then they know that their target is EITHER mafia OR the mafia target last night. But they can't be certain which. That again is interesting.
I don't think B) could happen either, since Cakepie is the only TRULY afk player over the course of all of Night 1... although if anybody can come up with a plausible scumteam that was simply afk all night 1 I'm listening. I'd love to discuss what actually happened N1, which I see as a great win for town. Note that there is one variation of the setup that allows for both JK and Doc (if I'm not reading the wiki wrong here -- love to see our authority on math and statistics, Acid~, to contribute on this point, but he's probably won't bother responding to this post, assuming he ever reads it). If the blue is doc, should they claim? I don't think it was clairvoyant that nobody died N1 (and I think you sound like a sadscum by saying this), I think it was just damned lucky. Probably won't happen again, and there's a chance the Doc (if there is one) will be killed before they can do anything more useful. If the doc exists and claims, and scum kills them, we end up with a 100% confirmed town and a no kill on Night 1. Is this good for town? I'm not sure if this makes sense. I haven't put a lot of thought into reasons and possible results around town power role claims.
Oh please stop with your incessant town-claiming bullshit. What is this post, aside from a feeble attempt to extract a blue claim so you have a target for tonight?
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TLDR: Shut the fuck up about why WB is scum and give us some other reads if you don't want to die today.
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On January 30 2013 08:31 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 08:23 Acid~ wrote:On January 30 2013 07:43 Sn0_Man wrote: @Acid: There are 2 scum this game. Who is scum 2.0? we are well aware of your prime scum read, who is asleep atm anyways. Corazon thinks warbaby's unwillingness to unvote me is a town tell. He also thinks the same thing from me is a scum tell. Why is that, in your opinion? Where in my case against you did I say you not unvoting for WB was a scum tell? The difference between your tunneling and WB's tunneling is that Warbaby has at least joined in the discussion about other players and other things. You've had two posts that did not have anything to deal with WB, and they are the two posts answering me. You also dodged my argument. If you thought it didn't make sense you would've said so. No one else said it was BS, so why didn't you say it? I told you both that if you were town, you would stop tunneling each other for the majority of D2. You insist on Warbaby being lynched, but how can we be sure of your town credibility if your scumhunting has only consisted of telling us why WB is so much scum? You both have been completely useless to us, and you guys tunneling each other 10 minutes into D2 is hurting the town. You've brought nothing to the table, and you dodged my argument. When it comes to you and WB being on the chopping block, I'd rather pick someone who has shown at least a slight flash of actual scum hunting more than one person, and is not afraid to call out BS on my arguments and does not act shady.
I've already explained to you why I didn't respond to your argument. Why would I waste time on something that doesn't make sense? Why would any of the players?
None of them said it was nonsense but none of them backed it up either, so...?
I made a case against warbaby that was based on evidence. He made an OMGUS. Why should I be the one to establish town cred? Because I missed a vote? Like the lurker thing, this is hiding behind policy. If policy votes is all you care about, good for you. I want to actually play the game.
If you can't see the value in my case, then fine. You go be clueless in your corner until I decide whether you're scum or retarded.
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On January 30 2013 08:31 cDgCorazon wrote: TLDR: Shut the fuck up about why WB is scum and give us some other reads if you don't want to die today.
And I suggest you don't be an asshole to someone who is making a case against you if you want them to un-vote you somewhere down the road.
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On January 30 2013 08:31 cDgCorazon wrote: TLDR: Shut the fuck up about why WB is scum and give us some other reads if you don't want to die today.
No. My other reads will change based on warbaby's flip and the votes and discussions leading up to it. WB is my strongest read, he goes first - unless someone makes a better case against anyone else.
So far, I don't see one. I see a bullshit OMGUS on me and your nonsense about me not responding to your original nonsense. I could maybe buy the policy vote based on me not voting day 1, but I gave a reason for that, both to the mod who decided to let me off with a warning and to the town. You don't buy it? Fuck you, I'm not selling.
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On January 30 2013 08:41 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 08:31 cDgCorazon wrote: TLDR: Shut the fuck up about why WB is scum and give us some other reads if you don't want to die today. Fuck you, I'm not selling.
Well then, my vote will remain on you.
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On January 30 2013 08:41 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 08:31 cDgCorazon wrote: TLDR: Shut the fuck up about why WB is scum and give us some other reads if you don't want to die today. And I suggest you don't be an asshole to someone who is making a case against you if you want them to un-vote you somewhere down the road.
Why? Is this a fucking popularity contest? If you're too stupid to make your decisions based on logic and just vote/unvote based on who's the nice guy, why the fuck would I want anything to do with you?
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On January 30 2013 08:43 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 08:41 cDgCorazon wrote:On January 30 2013 08:31 cDgCorazon wrote: TLDR: Shut the fuck up about why WB is scum and give us some other reads if you don't want to die today. And I suggest you don't be an asshole to someone who is making a case against you if you want them to un-vote you somewhere down the road. Why? Is this a fucking popularity contest? If you're too stupid to make your decisions based on logic and just vote/unvote based on who's the nice guy, why the fuck would I want anything to do with you?
The problem is, the logic is not there. If I give you a way to earn town cred by investigating other people and then you just act like a child and say "fuck you", I'm not going to un-vote you.
The reason you want to have something to do with me is because I hold a vote. Perhaps there is one vote separating you from being in this game and being dead. Would you rather not be an asshole to people so they might listen to you, or would you rather be an abrasive douche? Which one will be more likely to save your sorry ass?
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Sorry about me being not here. Had a really busy day.
My response to warbaby:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 04:13 warbaby wrote: In list form due to popular demand. (That "popular demand" bit was also a joke, in case you got confused, Sn0. Let me know if you need help tying your shoes or anything.).
Warbaby's case on Glurio 1) Most of glurio's posts are backing up someone else's stated opinion, although he does add some of his own analysis. First he backed me on Acid~, then he backed Sn0_man against me. I think this makes it look like he's not doing his best to think for himself. 1.a) A majority of glurio's posts are backing up sn0_man and tunneling me, but he never explains why he thinks sn0 is town (assuming they are collaborating as town, not scum). Does glurio think sn0_man is town, and what evidence is that based on? I'd like Glurio to respond to this. 2) Glurio's D1 vote on SkaPunk was kind of pointless, and could be seen as bussing Ska. Ska was already set to be lynched when glurio voted Ska, so I'm not sure if glurio was really helping us pressure Ska, or just voting to make sure town Ska got lynched. 3) We're well into D2, and glurio's filter is less than a page long. This level of contribution is not going to hinder other towns from making a read on glurio.
Now that I've made a case on someone other than Sn0 and Acid~, maybe Sn0 and Acid~ can make a case on someone other than me.
They're tunneling me hardcore, it's hypocritical for Sn0 criticize me for tunneling at the same time.
Also, Sn0 I agree with your last paragraph there. That's exactly why I think what Slayalot is doing is not scummy. But Acid~ failed to vote D1. That's against the rules and anti-town. 12 hours is ok like you say. 24 is not.
1) I never backed you on acid. Never backed sn0s case against you, he might have had some similar points, but most of my stuff i found myself. While i did later use some stuff zare and acid brought up, this was much later in the game.
1a) Yes, i actually believe sn0 to be town. His posts look like solid scumhunting. He never went on a personal level, got too emotional. Also he seems to have the same read on you as i do. Scum btw. He was in the last game with mocsta and draws the same parallel between your play and his.
2) For this point i'll first quote you. + Show Spoiler +On January 28 2013 00:39 warbaby wrote: Also, I'm with Glurio.
##Vote: SkaPunk
SkaPunk has demonstrated that he is in fact capable of using the post box. Maybe if we pressure him some more, he'll actually contribute. Remember my first post: scumread -> scummy lurker -> lurker. He classified as scummy lurker, so i voted for him.
3) You are right, i really should step up and post more.
As i see it right now there are two major suspects: Acid and warbaby.
##FoS: warbaby
He doesn't seem to put in the effort to actually read before accusing. He has already multiple posts of "oh well too tired to read clearly" "oh i didn't catch that" "got the time mixed up" as soon as someone calls him out on his mistakes. Then theres the whole mocsta meta kinda thing i think he has going on. Although he copies mocsta not very good, he seems to try. He now trys to earn town cred by suddenly being nice to his no. 1 scumread, sn0. Whilst discrediting acid.
Since i'm pretty tired right now ill promise to look at acid tomorrow.
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On January 30 2013 08:48 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 08:43 Acid~ wrote:On January 30 2013 08:41 cDgCorazon wrote:On January 30 2013 08:31 cDgCorazon wrote: TLDR: Shut the fuck up about why WB is scum and give us some other reads if you don't want to die today. And I suggest you don't be an asshole to someone who is making a case against you if you want them to un-vote you somewhere down the road. Why? Is this a fucking popularity contest? If you're too stupid to make your decisions based on logic and just vote/unvote based on who's the nice guy, why the fuck would I want anything to do with you? The problem is, the logic is not there.
It is there. You have not made an analysis of my case to tell me why it was wrong. You have not responded to my valid concerns about warbaby's play. You have just dismissed them saying "meh, I don't buy it" without giving reason. And now you want to discuss other people and let warbaby off the hook?
If I give you a way to earn town cred by investigating other people and then you just act like a child and say "fuck you", I'm not going to un-vote you.
The reason you want to have something to do with me is because I hold a vote. Perhaps there is one vote separating you from being in this game and being dead. Would you rather not be an asshole to people so they might listen to you, or would you rather be an abrasive douche? Which one will be more likely to save your sorry ass?
I don't care about saving my "sorry" ass, I care about finding scum. If I die today and the vote pattern or discussion reveals warbaby's scumbuddy I'm fine with it. I still win if I'm dead.
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On January 30 2013 09:01 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 08:48 cDgCorazon wrote:On January 30 2013 08:43 Acid~ wrote:On January 30 2013 08:41 cDgCorazon wrote:On January 30 2013 08:31 cDgCorazon wrote: TLDR: Shut the fuck up about why WB is scum and give us some other reads if you don't want to die today. And I suggest you don't be an asshole to someone who is making a case against you if you want them to un-vote you somewhere down the road. Why? Is this a fucking popularity contest? If you're too stupid to make your decisions based on logic and just vote/unvote based on who's the nice guy, why the fuck would I want anything to do with you? The problem is, the logic is not there. It is there. You have not made an analysis of my case to tell me why it was wrong. You have not responded to my valid concerns about warbaby's play. You have just dismissed them saying "meh, I don't buy it" without giving reason. And now you want to discuss other people and let warbaby off the hook? Show nested quote +
If I give you a way to earn town cred by investigating other people and then you just act like a child and say "fuck you", I'm not going to un-vote you.
The reason you want to have something to do with me is because I hold a vote. Perhaps there is one vote separating you from being in this game and being dead. Would you rather not be an asshole to people so they might listen to you, or would you rather be an abrasive douche? Which one will be more likely to save your sorry ass?
I don't care about saving my "sorry" ass, I care about finding scum. If I die today and the vote pattern or discussion reveals warbaby's scumbuddy I'm fine with it. I still win if I'm dead.
You're not listening to me, are you? It's the fact that you refuse to even contemplate investigating the actions of someone else besides WB. If you're town, your play has been next to useless. It doesn't take a genius to call out the faults of Warbaby. However, his contribution to the scum hunt has been 100x more than yours has been. Of course, it's not hard to be 100x more than nothing.
You don't want to die. Dying sucks. You can't trust the town to hunt the targets and use the same arguments as you. You want to be alive personally so you can scumhunt and do your part to help the town win. You can't do that if you're town. Your final contribution to town (if you stay this path) right now is your flip, which would only make the percentages of us getting them the next day go down. We can't take you seriously. You've only tunneled WB. Sure it would put him under the spotlight, but that's not enough to make me lynch him if you flipped town. If you're town, you need to make your contribution greater if you gave us more than one option.
You dodged my argument, and you're playing to the quietness of D1 (going AFK and not letting anyone know. We would understand if you had said something) and now the discussion-filled D2. You've only tunneled WB all game, and have basically contributed nothing to town. You've been asked multiple times to focus on someone other than WB at least temporarily, and you have not done so. If you have the town's best interests in mind, you would have hunted someone other than WB. Your failure to do so, along with the other reasons and you just acting like a general douchebag, are why I'm voting for you. Understand, or do I need to simplify more?
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On January 30 2013 08:55 glurio wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Sorry about me being not here. Had a really busy day. My response to warbaby: + Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 04:13 warbaby wrote: In list form due to popular demand. (That "popular demand" bit was also a joke, in case you got confused, Sn0. Let me know if you need help tying your shoes or anything.).
Warbaby's case on Glurio 1) Most of glurio's posts are backing up someone else's stated opinion, although he does add some of his own analysis. First he backed me on Acid~, then he backed Sn0_man against me. I think this makes it look like he's not doing his best to think for himself. 1.a) A majority of glurio's posts are backing up sn0_man and tunneling me, but he never explains why he thinks sn0 is town (assuming they are collaborating as town, not scum). Does glurio think sn0_man is town, and what evidence is that based on? I'd like Glurio to respond to this. 2) Glurio's D1 vote on SkaPunk was kind of pointless, and could be seen as bussing Ska. Ska was already set to be lynched when glurio voted Ska, so I'm not sure if glurio was really helping us pressure Ska, or just voting to make sure town Ska got lynched. 3) We're well into D2, and glurio's filter is less than a page long. This level of contribution is not going to hinder other towns from making a read on glurio.
Now that I've made a case on someone other than Sn0 and Acid~, maybe Sn0 and Acid~ can make a case on someone other than me.
They're tunneling me hardcore, it's hypocritical for Sn0 criticize me for tunneling at the same time.
Also, Sn0 I agree with your last paragraph there. That's exactly why I think what Slayalot is doing is not scummy. But Acid~ failed to vote D1. That's against the rules and anti-town. 12 hours is ok like you say. 24 is not. 1) I never backed you on acid. Never backed sn0s case against you, he might have had some similar points, but most of my stuff i found myself. While i did later use some stuff zare and acid brought up, this was much later in the game. 1a) Yes, i actually believe sn0 to be town. His posts look like solid scumhunting. He never went on a personal level, got too emotional. Also he seems to have the same read on you as i do. Scum btw. He was in the last game with mocsta and draws the same parallel between your play and his. 2) For this point i'll first quote you. + Show Spoiler +On January 28 2013 00:39 warbaby wrote: Also, I'm with Glurio.
##Vote: SkaPunk
SkaPunk has demonstrated that he is in fact capable of using the post box. Maybe if we pressure him some more, he'll actually contribute. Remember my first post: scumread -> scummy lurker -> lurker. He classified as scummy lurker, so i voted for him. 3) You are right, i really should step up and post more. As i see it right now there are two major suspects: Acid and warbaby. ##FoS: warbaby
He doesn't seem to put in the effort to actually read before accusing. He has already multiple posts of "oh well too tired to read clearly" "oh i didn't catch that" "got the time mixed up" as soon as someone calls him out on his mistakes. Then theres the whole mocsta meta kinda thing i think he has going on. Although he copies mocsta not very good, he seems to try. He now trys to earn town cred by suddenly being nice to his no. 1 scumread, sn0. Whilst discrediting acid. Since i'm pretty tired right now ill promise to look at acid tomorrow.
Thank you for this very reasonable response. I'd like to hear your thoughts on people other than Acid~, too.
Apparently I can no longer sleep more than a few hours at a time since starting to play forum Mafia. I'm not sure, but that might be exacerbated by the fact that I'm coming down with the flu. I'll try to step up my contributions in terms of not maing stupid mistakes and errors, but I'm not sure that will happen in the span of 1 game.
On January 30 2013 07:34 Acid~ wrote: I managed to check the thread before going to bed, am I allowed to do this? Can I please have your permission to live my life how I see fit?
I'm not telling you how to live your life. If you can only post once every 24 hours, that means we have 2 chances per day cycle and 1 per night to actually get input from you. I really don't feel that's appropriate for a mafia game. I will drop this now, since I've already made my point, and you did finally respond.
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In case it's not 100% clear: FoS'ing me based on the case Glurio is making, is reasonable if he is town and trying to pressure me. Voting me immediately on D2 and then taking off for 24h is not reasonable (sorry, I can't drop it -- this just pisses me off too much).
In case it's also not clear, my position is as stands:
##FoS: Acid~
And my vote rests on nobody at the moment.
Zarepath make posts please.
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On January 30 2013 02:31 zarepath wrote: Warbaby, why are you all over Acid for not contributing more, but not all over Slayalot?
Because Slayalot's contributions are not anti-town, although they are far too sparse. He voted D1 and Acid~ didn't.
I like the few small posts you've made recently, Zarepath. But I want you to make more posts about people other than me and Acid~.
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Acid. Now that I see you writing more. Please start to create a better town atmosphere. You are still tunneling warbaby. And you are going emotional in almost every post. Lets say warbaby isn't scum, but he gets lynched. What have you contributed with??
Someone wrote (forgot who) that warbaby AND acid can't both be scum. You are right! So In a way. It doesn't make sense for me to have them as #1 and #2. So I've thought about who should replace who. And I wanted to find someone to be #2 instead of acid. But since my last post - he has done exactly what I told him not to do. He keeps tunneling Warbaby and keeps going emo all the time.
I can't make up my mind if that makes him more scummy or less scummy.
To glurio. You say that you are going to bed, and that you will "look at acid tomorrow" I'm going to hold you to your word. And that means, that I want to hear your thoughts on him before day 2 ends. If you don't do this, I will consider it a scummy move.
To zare. We need more of your analysis. I have a strong town read on you so far - and I agree with alot of your posts.
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Zarepath's Review of Corazon's Filter by Zarepath
[spoiler: I think he's scummy]
On January 28 2013 05:08 cDgCorazon wrote: Well there's a 1/3rd chance that we lynch the right player if we LAL today. So there's not much to lose on a lurker lynch.
I really hope that all three of them aren't mafia, because if they do not vote and get modkilled (I hope I'm not breaking a rule by saying that) there are some scary players waiting in the replacement section if they're all mafia.
Just theorycrafting. Hosts let me know if I broke any rules by speculating about it.
One of the game's scummiest posts, IMO. Theorycrafting and blatant rule-breaking and no real drive to hunt for scum; this post characterizes Corazon's D1 participation pretty well.
On January 28 2013 10:06 cDgCorazon wrote: Well, the chances of us getting a scum D1 were zero. I'm gonna relook over the day's events and let you all know if I find anything of importance. I mentioned earlier how this contradicts his earlier post about the chances of finding scum D1. He's obviously not very consistent with his desire/town's ability to find scum.
On January 29 2013 10:57 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm really sorry that I couldn't post my last thoughts, my phone died and I just got home. However, I would like to make a general answer to the accusations made against me.
Being inconsistent: You're right Zare, my focus just has not been here over the first day. I'm making a promise to all of you now that I'm going to read the thread again before saying anything. No more inconsistencies. If you're expecting a defense to this point, you're not gonna get one. I've been wasting my time.
Voting for Ska: At the point in time I was going to vote for Ska, it was already going to be him lynched, with 3 people voting for him who wouldn't be able to change their votes before the deadline. I voted Abenson to make sure all of the lurkers knew that we would not allow for lurking. Once I was notified that Abenson didn't exist, I just decided to consolidate our vote for Ska. Glurio's comment that something in my post was fishy (without actually saying which part was fishy) is scummy in itself, trying to distract the town by getting them to find a deeper meaning in everything that I post.
Not knowing set-up/being ignorant: I've already stated this, it's a massive WIFOM bomb. Stop distracting town with it.
Me not playing to my "usual standard" (whatever that is): In the past two games I've played, I spent 6 Days as scum and 1 day as town. So perhaps me not playing like I did in XXXIII means I'm town?
Now to the scumhunting part. The problem I'm having with Acid right now is that all he has done the whole game is tunneled Warbaby. I know he's going after his scum read, but most of his posts have been in his argument with WB and attacking WB. I made an argument against him asking for a reply, and it has completely ignored in his pursuit to have Warbaby lynched at all costs. Ignoring an argument is an automatic FoS for me. If he was town, why would he ignore an argument made against him. If he is truly innocent, he can explain his behavior, not ignore me and hope it blows over.
FoS: Acid~
I'm gonna go through the thread again just to make sure I didn't miss anything.
Last note for this long post: Zare, I'm glad you got your RL stuff out of the way. Your case against me was the most solid of the multiple arguments (I really can't call any of the rest cases) against me. It's going a long way for me to believe that you are town. Keep it up.
In his long post, he calls Glurio, Acid, and whoever it is he calls out for the "massive WIFOM bomb" of saying it's scummy that he didn't know the setup, was ignorant, etc; scummy. At the end, he goes way out of his way to compliment the person who put a case on him; "Keep it up buddy! You're helping town so much by analyzing me! Good work!" This smells a little of overcompensation, a Congratulating the Medic deal. Town would not go out of their way to compliment the people going after them; town doesn't want to waste town's time by being analyzed, they want to go after scum. But Corazon doesn't really attempt to confirm his towniness except by throwing barbs at three different people and FoSing Acid for "tunneling" the game's scummiest player, warbaby.
Here's a thing about tunneling, people -- it's only tunneling if your analysis is loaded with confirmation bias and you refuse to see evidence in anything else. If you have a scum read on someone, it's totally appropriate to pressure that person continually for more information. If you're sure they'll be lynched, it's STILL appropriate to pressure them for more information because they're going to be dead soon and unable to give up any more details. Let's quit using the term "tunneling" to mean anytime somebody focuses on a single player, okay? It's more about being blind to other possibilities and having confirmation bias than it is focusing on a single player.
Cora requotes himself, then quotes me to say I summed it up nicely, then puts some pressure on WB, calling him out along with the rest of us, which does seem fairly town but he did put the FoS on Acid first.
But in his continual pressure on WB, he doesn't make a case for his scumminess; he just pleads with him to stop dragging town down. It's his "execution" that's the problem, not the case itself. He's doing work here to suggest that WB is simply bad town, not active scum.
When it comes down to his ultimatum on the fact that it's between Acid and WB, he chooses Acid because WB is the town jester, a persona that Cora has crafted for him over all of his facetious posts ("extra, extra!").
He requotes Sn0 without any additional content.
He condemns Acid so severely for tunneling WB -- in fact, it's the core of his case on him. But I don't see a cohesive scum case or clear direction in Corazon's play, or even a modicum of contemplation, or for seeking relevant new information.
Corazon looks scummy to me.
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As promised my thoughts on acid:
Most of his recent posts are discrediting his attackers (cora/warbaby). He likes to lash out and tries to draw reactions with it. And it works. His case against warbaby seems solid, although it wasn't warbabys math that was off, it was coras. He does get quite emotional in his defense. I do find his reason for not giving a second scum candidate off quite shady, though. You could just tell us what would change in case he flips what. His prime target is warbaby always was and he really wants to kill him. Which is in my opinion totally understandable. It's also pretty obvious who his second scumread is at the moment. I'll quote it for convenience sake: + Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 08:23 Acid~ wrote: Corazon thinks warbaby's unwillingness to unvote me is a town tell. He also thinks the same thing from me is a scum tell. Why is that, in your opinion? + Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 08:29 Acid~ wrote: My goal was to get people talking about the case, that's what people do. But, I have to give you credit: your conveniently timed "argument" with Corazon managed to pull attention away from the case and bury it behind five pages of useless bullshit. Right now he seems to have the same read as myself on both those guys. So all in all i've got a town read on acid. His unwillingness to unvote or budge an inch on his opinion gives me a town vibe. For the unlikely event that warbaby actually flips town the spotlight will no doubt switch to himself.
Now I wanna change to a different person: zarepath.
What I found really odd was that his contributions really are much different from the last game we played, he used to do really long cases or lists so far we haven’t seen anything like this apart from a minor case on cora N1 he really didn’t contribute much so far. If it’s due to RL obligations or not I don’t know. I just wanna highlight it in hope he’ll contribute more to it.
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On January 30 2013 23:53 zarepath wrote:Zarepath's Review of Corazon's Filterby Zarepath+ Show Spoiler +On January 28 2013 05:08 cDgCorazon wrote: Well there's a 1/3rd chance that we lynch the right player if we LAL today. So there's not much to lose on a lurker lynch.
I really hope that all three of them aren't mafia, because if they do not vote and get modkilled (I hope I'm not breaking a rule by saying that) there are some scary players waiting in the replacement section if they're all mafia.
Just theorycrafting. Hosts let me know if I broke any rules by speculating about it.
One of the game's scummiest posts, IMO. Theorycrafting and blatant rule-breaking and no real drive to hunt for scum; this post characterizes Corazon's D1 participation pretty well. On January 28 2013 10:06 cDgCorazon wrote: Well, the chances of us getting a scum D1 were zero. I'm gonna relook over the day's events and let you all know if I find anything of importance. I mentioned earlier how this contradicts his earlier post about the chances of finding scum D1. He's obviously not very consistent with his desire/town's ability to find scum. On January 29 2013 10:57 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm really sorry that I couldn't post my last thoughts, my phone died and I just got home. However, I would like to make a general answer to the accusations made against me.
Being inconsistent: You're right Zare, my focus just has not been here over the first day. I'm making a promise to all of you now that I'm going to read the thread again before saying anything. No more inconsistencies. If you're expecting a defense to this point, you're not gonna get one. I've been wasting my time.
Voting for Ska: At the point in time I was going to vote for Ska, it was already going to be him lynched, with 3 people voting for him who wouldn't be able to change their votes before the deadline. I voted Abenson to make sure all of the lurkers knew that we would not allow for lurking. Once I was notified that Abenson didn't exist, I just decided to consolidate our vote for Ska. Glurio's comment that something in my post was fishy (without actually saying which part was fishy) is scummy in itself, trying to distract the town by getting them to find a deeper meaning in everything that I post.
Not knowing set-up/being ignorant: I've already stated this, it's a massive WIFOM bomb. Stop distracting town with it.
Me not playing to my "usual standard" (whatever that is): In the past two games I've played, I spent 6 Days as scum and 1 day as town. So perhaps me not playing like I did in XXXIII means I'm town?
Now to the scumhunting part. The problem I'm having with Acid right now is that all he has done the whole game is tunneled Warbaby. I know he's going after his scum read, but most of his posts have been in his argument with WB and attacking WB. I made an argument against him asking for a reply, and it has completely ignored in his pursuit to have Warbaby lynched at all costs. Ignoring an argument is an automatic FoS for me. If he was town, why would he ignore an argument made against him. If he is truly innocent, he can explain his behavior, not ignore me and hope it blows over.
FoS: Acid~
I'm gonna go through the thread again just to make sure I didn't miss anything.
Last note for this long post: Zare, I'm glad you got your RL stuff out of the way. Your case against me was the most solid of the multiple arguments (I really can't call any of the rest cases) against me. It's going a long way for me to believe that you are town. Keep it up. In his long post, he calls Glurio, Acid, and whoever it is he calls out for the "massive WIFOM bomb" of saying it's scummy that he didn't know the setup, was ignorant, etc; scummy. At the end, he goes way out of his way to compliment the person who put a case on him; "Keep it up buddy! You're helping town so much by analyzing me! Good work!" This smells a little of overcompensation, a Congratulating the Medic deal. Town would not go out of their way to compliment the people going after them; town doesn't want to waste town's time by being analyzed, they want to go after scum. But Corazon doesn't really attempt to confirm his towniness except by throwing barbs at three different people and FoSing Acid for "tunneling" the game's scummiest player, warbaby. Here's a thing about tunneling, people -- it's only tunneling if your analysis is loaded with confirmation bias and you refuse to see evidence in anything else. If you have a scum read on someone, it's totally appropriate to pressure that person continually for more information. If you're sure they'll be lynched, it's STILL appropriate to pressure them for more information because they're going to be dead soon and unable to give up any more details. Let's quit using the term "tunneling" to mean anytime somebody focuses on a single player, okay? It's more about being blind to other possibilities and having confirmation bias than it is focusing on a single player. Cora requotes himself, then quotes me to say I summed it up nicely, then puts some pressure on WB, calling him out along with the rest of us, which does seem fairly town but he did put the FoS on Acid first. But in his continual pressure on WB, he doesn't make a case for his scumminess; he just pleads with him to stop dragging town down. It's his "execution" that's the problem, not the case itself. He's doing work here to suggest that WB is simply bad town, not active scum. When it comes down to his ultimatum on the fact that it's between Acid and WB, he chooses Acid because WB is the town jester, a persona that Cora has crafted for him over all of his facetious posts ("extra, extra!"). He requotes Sn0 without any additional content. He condemns Acid so severely for tunneling WB -- in fact, it's the core of his case on him. But I don't see a cohesive scum case or clear direction in Corazon's play, or even a modicum of contemplation, or for seeking relevant new information. Corazon looks scummy to me.
Pro Tip: We aren't lynching Cora today.
To be honest, his day 1/ night 1 play didn't impress me much either (pretty sure I wrote a post about that somewhere), but his more recent interactions are enough for me to give him a ride today.
@Acid: I know you can be effective, you know I don't mind a bit of vitriol in the arguments, but can you please be semi-reasonable. I really want to lynch warbaby right now, but you are begging me to call that off and nail you with your play. I get that you can't play all the time, I'm not hating your for your missed vote, but please be aware that excuses can be made up by scum to give them a free-ride for minimal contribution (which is why I'm still not sold on slayalot). This again is something that looks bad for you.
Also from the OP:
I'm going to warn you if you're being excessively unpleasant towards other players
Lets try to avoid that shall we?
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Zarepath's Review of warbaby's Filter by Zarepath
[spoiler: he also looks scummy, but moreso imo]
A lot has been said about warbaby, much of which I agree with. He was wildly emotional, defensive, and irrational for the first half of D2, and his most level-headed tone was used to ask if the medic should role-claim (on day 2???). Here are a few other posts from his filter that I believe show a few things that add to the overall case for WB's scumminess:
On January 29 2013 15:30 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 14:09 cDgCorazon wrote:By voting, you are saying you want to lynch him today. Saying it 10 minutes into D2 is throwing in the towel. OK, fine. I can't come up with any reason you're wrong about this. I don't currently think Zare is scum, and he's telling me to do this as well. ##Unvote: Acid~ ##FoS: Acid~
By my own logic I find Acid~ scummier than Sn0man, currently. So I'm switching my middle finger of suspicion to Acid~.
This does not seem like a very town-motivated thing to do. Town's number one role is to lynch scum, and their vote is their most powerful tool. A townie with a case on someone as being scum should have enough confidence in their case that they don't unvote just because somebody else thinks it's a bad policy; they defend their case and develop it throughout the day. I don't see a problem with voting early D2 as long as the case gets developed; it certainly puts pressure on scum if they're a recipient of an early vote.
(Note that he claims he's doing it because I told him to; if I recall correctly, my main concern was that he built literally zero case before voting Acid back, not that I think he should unvote.)
However, scum is paranoid about being seen as a Member of the Town, and is more likely to buckle under policy pressure instead of sticking to their guns so that they can be seen as part of the group.
More scummy in this post is something that he also did on Day 1 -- couch his decisions with town reads on other people. He's not just unvoting because Corazon thinks it's bad policy, but because Zarepath also told him to, and Zarepath is town. I don't know how much I like someone constantly doing things just because their town reads tell them to do so. Town has no reason to entrust their analysis and activity to ANYONE else, even if they think they're town; and they certainly have no reason to go out of their way to justify their actions by saying "Look, this guy told me to, and he's town." Scum, however, would not mind creating associations with players that most people have a town read on (I get the sense that most people have a town read on me).
On Day 1, this was how he justified jumping off of the inevitable Skapunk lynch -- scum would want to bandwagon it, therefore anyone not voting for Skapunk is NOT scum, therefore if he votes with them he's not voting with scum. Again, he's justifying his decisions by relying on the towniness of others, making all of his faults and decisions not just HIS faults and decisions, but a product of other players' decisions.
In total, warbaby seems oddly concerned with how others in town perceive him and, while active, doesn't contribute to a pro-town environment.
On January 30 2013 04:15 warbaby wrote: EBWOP: Glurio's level of contribution is ONLY going to hinder other towns from making a read on glurio. This could be a scum slip -- "other towns" implies that Glurio is town, but it could be argued that that implication is only within the hypothetical scenario that warbaby is exploring wherein Glurio needs to prove that he's town. Null. Just thought I'd bring this up.
On January 30 2013 14:41 warbaby wrote: In case it's not 100% clear: FoS'ing me based on the case Glurio is making, is reasonable if he is town and trying to pressure me. Voting me immediately on D2 and then taking off for 24h is not reasonable (sorry, I can't drop it -- this just pisses me off too much).
In case it's also not clear, my position is as stands:
##FoS: Acid~
And my vote rests on nobody at the moment.
Zarepath make posts please.
This is one of the latest posts by warbaby. He is concerned with illustrating his current status. Telling others to make posts is an easy "town-motivated" thing for scum to do, and I like to think that town would ideally do it with a little more nuance (specific questions, reasons why this person in particular should post more, suspicious things they need to answer for, certain cases that need to be looked into, etc.).
I still have issues with warbaby's core case on Acid being based around his "outrage" at the fact that Acid has 24-hr work commitments. It's the point that I remember most from all of warbaby's analysis of him. What happened to his AFKing/cakepie concern, that cakepie would need to post some good stuff D2 or else we should lynch him? No, now he's just too "pissed off" at Acid.
And really, this doesn't even get into his frantic leap off of the Skapunk train D1. I think that warbaby is the best lynch candidate we have right now.
[b]##Vote: warbaby
Also, a reminder to everyone to avoid association cases (I think I may have a few association cases in my Corazon read, actually) until after the flip. Individual reads are more valuable now, and I'll continue to do some individual reads through more filter work as I have time between tasks at work.
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Excellent. You may wish to fix your vote though as you broke the bold tag.
I agree though, warbaby's primary goal through all the posts he makes seems to be looking like he is town, not actually contributing to town. Sure, he has some good points, but everything he does just seems so... contrived to look townie.
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Alright Zare, since you obviously don't like the fact that I'm enjoying your scum hunting (it's good that you're hunting other people and exploring other options for the town), I won't "Congratulate the Medic" on this one.
I don't believe I contradicted myself when I said that 33% (it's actually 2/9, which I believe is around 22%. Don't quote me on that though) was still a low percentage. I'm guessing you believe differently. If we are going to argue about that, I think it would be pretty pointless. Splitting hairs is a distraction.
The points I made at the end of my first rebuttal were mostly out of annoyance that out of all of the comments made against me in that short span. Glurio and Sn0 basically made comments that were massive WIFOM bombs.
Glurio: + Show Spoiler +On January 29 2013 02:46 glurio wrote:and i really didn't like the vote post of cora especially the last sentence: Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 03:59 cDgCorazon wrote: I'll cover that base WB.
##Vote: Abenson
If these are the three mafia their coach must be ridiculously annoyed. Can't put my finger on it, but it really sounds scummy to me. I'll try to post more after cooking and eating dinner.
Sn0: + Show Spoiler +On January 29 2013 00:30 Sn0_Man wrote: I'd like to say that Cora's overt comments about 3 scum seem pretty dirty. The setup explicitly says that there are always 2 mafia, and Cora's last game (NMM XXXIV) was another 9 person 2-scum setup much like this one. Cora also co-hosted NMM 35 so he should understand the setup better than that. It sounds a lot to me like "Oh I can't possibly be scum, scum would know how many scum there are". Of course, I may be giving him too much credit, that plan actually sounds pretty hard to come up with on your own, but I suppose scum have a QT for ideas like that.
I'd also like to point out that Sn0 basically called me scum:
...but I suppose scum have a QT for ideas like that. Without pursuing it further. Weird...
Anyways, I digress. The choice is obviously between Warbaby and Acid today. I've already said all of this before. However, I guess I will add a new part to my decision that I guess wasn't very obvious before.
My decision between Warbaby and Acid did not put the merit of the cases into effect. In all honesty, both cases are terrible. They don't need to be good: Both players have acted stupidly scummy over the course of the game. That part is not deniable. We need to pick lynch who we think is scum and not lynch who we think is bad town.
Why I'm voting for Acid: + Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 07:57 cDgCorazon wrote: On the other hand, Acid has been ridiculously dodgy the entire game. In a town where inactivity has been a problem, he has been part of the inactivity problem. He dodges my argument, and only after he is pressured about it does he say that it wasn't relevant. The timing of his defense is ridiculously shady, almost 2 days after the original pressure. If he wanted to call my argument out as BS, he should've done so at his first opportunity, not chosen to ignore it. Telling me that my idea is stupid is how town bounces ideas off of each other and becomes more efficient as a scumhunting machine. By ignoring it until pressured, it's basically him saying that he's dodging it still.
The final straw is the voting history. Scum do not care who gets voted off as long as it's not one of them. WB voted, Acid didn't. There's no way Acid could not have spared 5 minutes to vote, even if he knew he was going to be working for a long shift. I don't buy the work stuff. At least jump on a wagon or vote no-lynch if you don't have time to vote. It's not being busy, it's disinterest in the vote. It's scummy.
-He dodged my argument -Only called it BS when I called him out for dodging me (if he was town he would have said it was BS a lot earlier) -He has been disinterested in the voting (and which alignment cares more about the lynch?) -He has been tunneling, both by my definition and by Zare's -Refuses to give us any other scum reads and insists on us lynching WB
Why I'm not voting for Warbaby: + Show Spoiler +Warbaby's erratic behavior made me very suspicious at first, I must admit. However, his brashness and unwilling to unvote Acid (even though voting for him early is a terrible idea) actually gave me a better feeling that he was town. The biggest thing that a scum has to worry about is their reputation with the rest of the town. A scum knows that he has to make sure no one else thinks he is scum so he can push his agenda forward and not be under suspicion. A town player would not care how others think about them because he knows he is town and has nothing to hide. Warbaby's behavior has seemed to follow these ideals. If he was scum, he would've listened to me and halted his aggression way before he did. The FoS definitely would've been enough for him to listen to me. Scum are afraid of getting lynched, so even threatening a vote would be enough to shut a scum down. Since it didn't phase WB, I believe that he is town not being afraid of his image in order to get the scum lynched. On top of that, scum would not tunnel a town so hard because once the town flipped, the mislynch would be on the scum's head and the scum would be the next likely to go.
-Not caring about his image, refused to listen to me even after he got FoS'd -Has given us his other reads -Has shown a willingness to look at other players
The only thing going for both of then is that they are tunneling so hard that if the other person flips town they will be lynched. I'm not so sure scum is willing to do that.
The core of my case is not because Acid is tunneling WB. I've said this before. I asked both of them that if they were town, they wouldn't distract us with this nonsense 10 minutes into D2. WB obliged, but Acid insists on not looking at any other scum possibilities.
The rest of your case goes on to say that I've made scummy posts my quoting others. Would you rather I just repeat what they say?
The problem is neither of them is going after scum 2.0. None of us, really. You know why that is? It is because WB and Acid basically stole the spotlight D2 with their little fight. Do you see what the problem is with it now? We're spending all of D2 deciding between WB and Acid instead of spending time actually scum hunting. This is why I asked both of them to unvote and pursue other leads. Now do you see this scum hunt is distracting town, and why I tried to stop it so we could pursue other leads? That request was not biased towards WB or Acid, it's biased towards town. I warned that this would basically take over D2, and it has. Good job guys.
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On January 31 2013 00:24 zarepath wrote: More scummy in this post is something that he also did on Day 1 -- couch his decisions with town reads on other people. He's not just unvoting because Corazon thinks it's bad policy, but because Zarepath also told him to, and Zarepath is town.
I just want to highlight the third-person town claim by Zare.
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On January 31 2013 00:37 cDgCorazon wrote: I warned that this would basically take over D2, and it has. Good job guys.
If we lynch scum day 2, then it was a very worthwhile day...
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On January 31 2013 00:40 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 00:24 zarepath wrote: More scummy in this post is something that he also did on Day 1 -- couch his decisions with town reads on other people. He's not just unvoting because Corazon thinks it's bad policy, but because Zarepath also told him to, and Zarepath is town.
I just want to highlight the third-person town claim by Zare.
Not really, he was outlining the decision process and specifying that WB's decision hinged on WB's perception of zare as town
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See, I don't think that a scum warbaby would have backed off of Acid and said, "You know what, you're right, guys -- this is hurting town. I'm so pro-town so I'll stop." I think that he's presented us an OMGUS, not a daring case he's sticking his neck out for, but one that can easily be chalked up to "well, he's a crappy townie anyway." And Acid is kind of an easy target in that he knows that Acid didn't vote Day 1, and will be gone for the next 24 hours (when he'll be under potential scrutiny).
Cora is right that we do need to look outside of just Acid/warbaby, and I think that cakepie (I honestly forgot the name, it's not in the filters in the OP), glurio, and Slayalot are low enough in contribution that they deserve some scrutiny. Cakepie especially I'm interested in hearing more from.
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Also, Cora, you predicted that we would become too focused on Acid/warbaby, and yet you yourself entangled DRAMATICALLY with warbaby with sarcasm and facetiousness. And voted for Acid. So, pot and kettle.
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On January 31 2013 00:37 cDgCorazon wrote:Why I'm not voting for Warbaby: + Show Spoiler +Warbaby's erratic behavior made me very suspicious at first, I must admit. However, his brashness and unwilling to unvote Acid (even though voting for him early is a terrible idea) actually gave me a better feeling that he was town. The biggest thing that a scum has to worry about is their reputation with the rest of the town. A scum knows that he has to make sure no one else thinks he is scum so he can push his agenda forward and not be under suspicion. A town player would not care how others think about them because he knows he is town and has nothing to hide. Warbaby's behavior has seemed to follow these ideals. If he was scum, he would've listened to me and halted his aggression way before he did. The FoS definitely would've been enough for him to listen to me. Scum are afraid of getting lynched, so even threatening a vote would be enough to shut a scum down. Since it didn't phase WB, I believe that he is town not being afraid of his image in order to get the scum lynched. On top of that, scum would not tunnel a town so hard because once the town flipped, the mislynch would be on the scum's head and the scum would be the next likely to go.
I'd like to quote a few things from acid: + Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 09:01 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 08:48 cDgCorazon wrote:On January 30 2013 08:43 Acid~ wrote:On January 30 2013 08:41 cDgCorazon wrote:On January 30 2013 08:31 cDgCorazon wrote: TLDR: Shut the fuck up about why WB is scum and give us some other reads if you don't want to die today. And I suggest you don't be an asshole to someone who is making a case against you if you want them to un-vote you somewhere down the road. Why? Is this a fucking popularity contest? If you're too stupid to make your decisions based on logic and just vote/unvote based on who's the nice guy, why the fuck would I want anything to do with you? The problem is, the logic is not there. It is there. You have not made an analysis of my case to tell me why it was wrong. You have not responded to my valid concerns about warbaby's play. You have just dismissed them saying "meh, I don't buy it" without giving reason. And now you want to discuss other people and let warbaby off the hook? Show nested quote +
If I give you a way to earn town cred by investigating other people and then you just act like a child and say "fuck you", I'm not going to un-vote you.
The reason you want to have something to do with me is because I hold a vote. Perhaps there is one vote separating you from being in this game and being dead. Would you rather not be an asshole to people so they might listen to you, or would you rather be an abrasive douche? Which one will be more likely to save your sorry ass?
I don't care about saving my "sorry" ass, I care about finding scum. If I die today and the vote pattern or discussion reveals warbaby's scumbuddy I'm fine with it. I still win if I'm dead.
And
+ Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 08:23 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 07:43 Sn0_Man wrote: @Acid: There are 2 scum this game. Who is scum 2.0? we are well aware of your prime scum read, who is asleep atm anyways. Then where are we on the lynching of the first scum? I'm not going to get off warbaby's case until he flips or someone presents a stronger case on someone else. I have other scumreads but they're not as strong. There's no value in discussing them right now. IF I'm right about warbaby then I have a solid lead on the second one. If I'm wrong, then I have a different lead. Just going to leave this here for you: Corazon thinks warbaby's unwillingness to unvote me is a town tell. He also thinks the same thing from me is a scum tell. Why is that, in your opinion?
To me it seems the complete reasoning why not voting for warbaby fits acid pretty good too. He's pushing his case and vote and doesn't care what the town thinks of him ("not a popularity contest"). And now quoting yourself: "On top of that, scum would not tunnel a town so hard because once the town flipped, the mislynch would be on the scum's head and the scum would be the next likely to go." Fits perfectly too.
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Going through some more filters, and it occurs to me that zarepath has recieved an unbelievably easy free ride without posting much. I mean, yes he just posted 2 big analysis posts but one is on warbaby (easy target we all want to lynch atm anyways) and one is a pretty weak case on Cora (who is pretty clearly town imo).
I'm not saying he is scum, but if he is he is having the easiest game of his life, while every so often popping in to toss out an easy post without any real goal. There isn't any fire in him to kill scum.
His filter is decently short, if anybody wants to go have a quick read.
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Fair enough, Sn0, but I consider my contributions to be on par with yours, and certainly ahead of glurio, Slayalot, and cakepie in terms of post count. If a Zarepath scum were having the easiest game of his life, glurio, Slayalot, and cakepie scum would be having the easiest games of all time.
If there's something specifically scummy you'd like me to respond to, I suggest you point it out in place of more abstract summaries ("There isn't any fire in him to kill scum," "easy post without any real goal"). I thought my posts were pretty well goal-oriented.
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I wasn't really interested in YOUR opinion of yourself zare
Glurio has been mentioned before, and while admittedly he isn't the most brilliant scumhunter my read on him is the noob town read, where he tries but really is pretty clueless. I don't really see any scum motivation there.
Slayalot is admittedly getting it pretty easy (especially from Warbaby o.O) but they have at least been mentioned. I'll prolly scroll through their filter again. For some reason I keep wanting to use female pronouns to describe slayalot (teacher gender-bias maybe? dunno).
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Okay slayalot has a fantastically short filter o.O
The scumteam could easily be like Slayalot/Cakepie and we would never know because they essentially don't post...
Yuck.
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On January 30 2013 12:45 cDgCorazon wrote:
You don't want to die. Dying sucks. You can't trust the town to hunt the targets and use the same arguments as you. You want to be alive personally so you can scumhunt and do your part to help the town win. You can't do that if you're town. Your final contribution to town (if you stay this path) right now is your flip, which would only make the percentages of us getting them the next day go down. We can't take you seriously. You've only tunneled WB. Sure it would put him under the spotlight, but that's not enough to make me lynch him if you flipped town. If you're town, you need to make your contribution greater if you gave us more than one option.
I don't play to live, I play to win. Playing to live is for scum, because they have inevitability. I do trust my townmates because I don't believe I'm anything special and anyone with half a brain is capable of making the remarks I made. Sometimes in chess you have to sacrifice a pawn to take a knight. I do believe that my flipping town will incriminate warbaby, whether you're personally convinced or not.
You dodged my argument, and you're playing to the quietness of D1 (going AFK and not letting anyone know. We would understand if you had said something) and now the discussion-filled D2. You've only tunneled WB all game, and have basically contributed nothing to town. You've been asked multiple times to focus on someone other than WB at least temporarily, and you have not done so. If you have the town's best interests in mind, you would have hunted someone other than WB. Your failure to do so, along with the other reasons and you just acting like a general douchebag, are why I'm voting for you. Understand, or do I need to simplify more?
I understand quite well that you're happy to lynch a townie if you can justify it by saying he was a "douchebag". That's a town tell if I ever saw one!
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I thought about Slayalot really well, and why/if I would cast my vote for Acid~ again.
Acid~ is posting more. The only reason to lynch him is because he's being a douchebag (to borrow Cora's rather appropriate verbiage).
Lynching Acid~ for being a douchebag is silly. At least he is picking up his game, and casting a vote D2. Lynching a lurker makes more sense to me, because I don't have a good enough scumread on anyone right now to pursue them.
##Vote: SlayAlot
I really was hoping we could egg SlayAlot on into playing this game properly, but we're halfway through D2 and he hasn't stepped it up. Acid~ has stepped it up, to some extent. I still FoS him for being a useless town, but I can't legitimately come up with a reason to vote him that's not OMGUS (or OMGUDB).
If you guys hop on Acid~'s attempts to mislynch me, and fall for his ridiculous case, then you are idiots. I especially expected more from Zarepath.
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On January 30 2013 23:16 Slayalot wrote: Acid. Now that I see you writing more. Please start to create a better town atmosphere. You are still tunneling warbaby. And you are going emotional in almost every post. Lets say warbaby isn't scum, but he gets lynched. What have you contributed with??
If warbaby is town then he essentially won the game for the scum team. What has he contributed besides attacking me for circumstances over which I have no control?
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On January 31 2013 03:08 Acid~ wrote: If warbaby is town then he essentially won the game for the scum team. What has he contributed besides attacking me for circumstances over which I have no control?
You obviously have not actually read my filter (or didn't pay enough attention while you did). You are projecting your own actions onto me. Stop being a douchebag, please.
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At this point the game is getting so confused.
I'm less sure that warbaby is scum, although his play is pretty hard to explain. I still feel like killing him will be the easiest way to bring clarity to the game. Plus there is still a better chance of him flipping scum than anybody else right now.
My worry is if WB flips town, then we have no leads (acid still doesn't seem scummy, just annoying atm) and not much time.
Another part of me wants to lynch CakePie since he has quite simply posted essentially nothing. The classic lurker lynch. While I know he doesn't have a ton of time blah blah blah, all he has done is a tiny bit of setup discussion. Thats it. 1 post worth the name. Admittedly he hasn't even had 48 hours to contribute, but he has had long enough to do more than 1 post.
Oh yeah,
If we could get a votecount as well as updated OP with flips and Cakepie that would be awesome thanks
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On January 31 2013 03:06 warbaby wrote: I thought about Slayalot really well, and why/if I would cast my vote for Acid~ again.
Acid~ is posting more. The only reason to lynch him is because he's being a douchebag (to borrow Cora's rather appropriate verbiage).
Lynching Acid~ for being a douchebag is silly. At least he is picking up his game, and casting a vote D2. Lynching a lurker makes more sense to me, because I don't have a good enough scumread on anyone right now to pursue them.
##Vote: SlayAlot
I really was hoping we could egg SlayAlot on into playing this game properly, but we're halfway through D2 and he hasn't stepped it up. Acid~ has stepped it up, to some extent. I still FoS him for being a useless town, but I can't legitimately come up with a reason to vote him that's not OMGUS (or OMGUDB).
If you guys hop on Acid~'s attempts to mislynch me, and fall for his ridiculous case, then you are idiots. I especially expected more from Zarepath.
See, this doesn't make sense. Going for LAL today because you "don't have a scum read" is essentially admitting that you're useless.
And then, you call my case an "attempt to mislynch" which is implying that I'm scum.
So which is it? Oh, right. now that more and more people seem to be convinced that we can't both be town, you can't lead the charge against me anymore, because then you're screwed tomorrow.
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On January 31 2013 03:16 Sn0_Man wrote:I still feel like killing him will be the easiest way to bring clarity to the game.
When you see my flip, should I be mislynched tonight, it will blow your mind. Guaranteed. And then you will realize you should have kept me in the game.
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On January 31 2013 03:16 Acid~ wrote: And then, you call my case an "attempt to mislynch" which is implying that I'm scum.
Absolutely not. A complete douchebag town is certainly capable of driving a mislynch.
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On January 31 2013 03:10 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 03:08 Acid~ wrote: If warbaby is town then he essentially won the game for the scum team. What has he contributed besides attacking me for circumstances over which I have no control? You obviously have not actually read my filter (or didn't pay enough attention while you did). You are projecting your own actions onto me. Stop being a douchebag, please.
You wanted to lynch a lurker day 1, you did it, congratulations. You can't make a case against anyone day 2 because it's really hard when you know all your targets are town and you have to fabricate evidence, so you're again wanting to lynch a lurker day 2.
Here is the actual scumhunting I found in your filter:+ Show Spoiler +
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On January 31 2013 03:18 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 03:16 Sn0_Man wrote:I still feel like killing him will be the easiest way to bring clarity to the game. When you see my flip, should I be mislynched tonight, it will blow your mind. Guaranteed. And then you will realize you should have kept me in the game.
If you wish to make a doctor claim, I'm all ears.
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On January 31 2013 03:20 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 03:18 warbaby wrote:On January 31 2013 03:16 Sn0_Man wrote:I still feel like killing him will be the easiest way to bring clarity to the game. When you see my flip, should I be mislynched tonight, it will blow your mind. Guaranteed. And then you will realize you should have kept me in the game. If you wish to make a doctor claim, I'm all ears.
Not yet, hun. We're still too far from deadline.
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On January 31 2013 03:19 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 03:16 Acid~ wrote: And then, you call my case an "attempt to mislynch" which is implying that I'm scum. Absolutely not. A complete douchebag town is certainly capable of driving a mislynch.
It's not an "attempt" to mislynch if I don't know it's a mislynch. Words have meanings.
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On January 31 2013 03:21 Acid~ wrote: It's not an "attempt" to mislynch if I don't know it's a mislynch. Words have meanings.
If you aren't cognizant of the fact that your case is bullshit, you're even stupider than I thought.
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On January 31 2013 03:22 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 03:21 Acid~ wrote: It's not an "attempt" to mislynch if I don't know it's a mislynch. Words have meanings. If you aren't cognizant of the fact that your case is bullshit, you're even stupider than I thought.
Why did you not urge town to take their vote off SkaPunk when you did? You said you switched because you had a town read on him. You had been leading town all day, why did not lead town away from what you thought would be a mislynch?
You've been dodging this question all day.
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On January 31 2013 03:20 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 03:20 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 31 2013 03:18 warbaby wrote:On January 31 2013 03:16 Sn0_Man wrote:I still feel like killing him will be the easiest way to bring clarity to the game. When you see my flip, should I be mislynched tonight, it will blow your mind. Guaranteed. And then you will realize you should have kept me in the game. If you wish to make a doctor claim, I'm all ears. Not yet, hun. We're still too far from deadline.
Time to deadline isn't terribly relevant during the day. Blue claims at night need to be right up on the deadline to ensure that the NK doesn't change to get the blue. Blue claims during the day should be early in the day so that they can be fairly examined and accounted for. Unless you wish to make the blue-claim last minute so that nobody can dispute it... which sounds pretty scummy.
I think it is already decently clear that you will get lynched today without a blueclaim and proof (although the requested votecount should clear that up).
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The claim is pointless if I'm not about to flip. I will make any claims no more than 1 hour before deadline, if I am still about to be lynched.
Sn0 is right, killing me will bring some clarity. It's still not the best move for town, but it's also not the worst.
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On January 31 2013 03:25 Acid~ wrote:
Why did you not urge town to take their vote off SkaPunk when you did? You said you switched because you had a town read on him. You had been leading town all day, why did not lead town away from what you thought would be a mislynch?
You've been dodging this question all day.
I never said I swtiched from Ska because I had a town read on him. I voted for Ska in the first place to pressure him into posting. It didn't work. I thought maybe there was some >0% chance pressuring someone else to post would work.
Imagine I am the doctor. The doctor NEEDS to make town reads to be an effective doctor (unlike a VT who only really needs to make scum reads). Does that help you understand my play?
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On January 31 2013 03:30 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 03:25 Acid~ wrote:
Why did you not urge town to take their vote off SkaPunk when you did? You said you switched because you had a town read on him. You had been leading town all day, why did not lead town away from what you thought would be a mislynch?
You've been dodging this question all day. I never said I swtiched from Ska because I had a town read on him. I voted for Ska in the first place to pressure him into posting. It didn't work. I thought maybe there was some >0% chance pressuring someone else to post would work. Imagine I am the doctor. The doctor NEEDS to make town reads to be an effective doctor (unlike a VT who only really needs to make scum reads). Does that help you understand my play?
Soft roleclaims like this only get you NK'd if you are actually blue (looking highly unlikely at this stage).
You actually did say something about a weak town read on SkaPunk, tbh. Hell, I'll dig it out:
On January 28 2013 08:35 warbaby wrote: If SkaPunk's single post was a scum trying to blend in then he's the worst scum ever. My (very weak) read on him is that he's town
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That's not the reason I switched my vote from him.
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EBWOP:
Soft roleclaims like this only get you NK'd without actually helping town if you are actually blue.
The help to town only comes post-flip which is too late.
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On January 31 2013 03:30 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 03:25 Acid~ wrote:
Why did you not urge town to take their vote off SkaPunk when you did? You said you switched because you had a town read on him. You had been leading town all day, why did not lead town away from what you thought would be a mislynch?
You've been dodging this question all day. I never said I swtiched from Ska because I had a town read on him.
O RLY?
On January 28 2013 08:35 warbaby wrote: ##Unvote: SkaPunk ##Vote: abenson
By glurio's metric, we should lynch scum, then scummy lurkers, then lurkers. If SkaPunk's single post was a scum trying to blend in then he's the worst scum ever. My (very weak) read on him is that he's town, but playing with extremely little effort so far. Pressure is apparently not getting a rise from him. Maybe he's not reading the thread, but one would really expect scum to put up some kind of defense when they're 2 hours (is that right?) from being lynched. So I'm going to vote for an actual 100% lurker.
I voted for Ska in the first place to pressure him into posting. It didn't work. I thought maybe there was some >0% chance pressuring someone else to post would work.
Imagine I am the doctor. The doctor NEEDS to make town reads to be an effective doctor (unlike a VT who only really needs to make scum reads). Does that help you understand my play?
I'll imagine you being the doctor once I see the stethoscope on your corpse.
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I'm pretty sure I'll be NK'd anyway, if I'm not lynched first, lol.
If I'm alive at the start of D3 I'll consider claiming, if I still have no useful scum reads.
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On January 31 2013 03:34 warbaby wrote: That's not the reason I switched my vote from him.
The argument is that if you have a weak town read on ska, you would defend him more, no matter how weak the read was.
Why, if you think he was town, did you not make any kind of post trying to save him?
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On January 31 2013 03:36 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 03:34 warbaby wrote: That's not the reason I switched my vote from him. The argument is that if you have a weak town read on ska, you would defend him more, no matter how weak the read was. Why, if you think he was town, did you not make any kind of post trying to save him?
I'm not going to defend people I have weak town reads on. It's not my job.
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On January 31 2013 03:36 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 03:36 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 31 2013 03:34 warbaby wrote: That's not the reason I switched my vote from him. The argument is that if you have a weak town read on ska, you would defend him more, no matter how weak the read was. Why, if you think he was town, did you not make any kind of post trying to save him? I'm not going to defend people I have weak town reads on. It's not my job.
Thank you, that's all I wanted from you
A nice, juicy scum claim.
If it's not your job to lynch scum instead of town, you are scum.
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On January 31 2013 03:36 warbaby wrote: If I'm alive at the start of D3 I'll consider claiming, if I still have no useful scum reads.
IF you are town AND alive at the start of D3 (and we mislynch somebody, plus doctor misses a save), we will be in MYLO (mis-lynch loses). In that case, a blue claim wouldn't be something you would "consider" it would be straight up REQUIRED (if you were blue).
Something gives here. You are NOT blue, and you are soft-claiming to get us off of you. It looks scummy as hell and I'm getting progressively less likely to switch off of you.
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On January 31 2013 03:39 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 03:36 warbaby wrote:On January 31 2013 03:36 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 31 2013 03:34 warbaby wrote: That's not the reason I switched my vote from him. The argument is that if you have a weak town read on ska, you would defend him more, no matter how weak the read was. Why, if you think he was town, did you not make any kind of post trying to save him? I'm not going to defend people I have weak town reads on. It's not my job. Thank you, that's all I wanted from you A nice, juicy scum claim. If it's not your job to lynch scum instead of town, you are scum.
That's nonsense. The job of town is to hunt scum, not defend other towns.
The job of town is to not vote for people they have a weak town read on.
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EBWOP: Unless you're voting someone you have a weak town read on, to pressure them. In that case go right ahead
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Stalling to blue claim until just before lynch makes it seem as though you're hoping there's no time for a counterclaim.
If you role claim any later than the next hour or so, I'm going to ignore any further role claims from you. You're in no position to be a tease about this.
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On January 31 2013 03:44 zarepath wrote: Stalling to blue claim until just before lynch makes it seem as though you're hoping there's no time for a counterclaim.
If you role claim any later than the next hour or so, I'm going to ignore any further role claims from you. You're in no position to be a tease about this.
Thats pretty much exactly what I said.
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On January 31 2013 03:44 zarepath wrote: You're in no position to be a tease about this.
That's only because you help me help you.
The reason I'm softclaiming is because Sn0_man is right. It will bring clarity to town if you find out my flip. I'm encouraging you to contemplate hypothetical scenarios, since you don't seem to understand my play.
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EBWOP: You won't help me help you.
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Your Grave = dug, warbaby.
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On January 31 2013 03:50 Sn0_Man wrote: Your Grave = dug, warbaby.
Sorry if I didn't handle things right. I'll try harder next time.
I'm sick as a dog now, I haven't held down solid food in almost 48 hours. I almost certainly have the flu, and it's really killing my motivation (to do anything, not just mafia). I tried to make cases for scum earlier (in D2), the only person who really responded was Glurio (who's the one I accused, so it hardly matters). I don't really know what to do now, since people seem to be ignoring any post I make that's not explaining my previous actions, or defending myself. It's like I'm stuck in a time warp.
You're boxing me into defending myself so much I can't do anything else, and be heard. I don't know what I can do about that.
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On January 31 2013 03:40 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 03:39 Acid~ wrote:On January 31 2013 03:36 warbaby wrote:On January 31 2013 03:36 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 31 2013 03:34 warbaby wrote: That's not the reason I switched my vote from him. The argument is that if you have a weak town read on ska, you would defend him more, no matter how weak the read was. Why, if you think he was town, did you not make any kind of post trying to save him? I'm not going to defend people I have weak town reads on. It's not my job. Thank you, that's all I wanted from you A nice, juicy scum claim. If it's not your job to lynch scum instead of town, you are scum. That's nonsense. The job of town is to hunt scum, not defend other towns. The job of town is to not vote for people they have a weak town read on.
Actually no, the job of town is to *lynch* scum. Letting town lynch someone you have a soft town read on is not lynching scum. It's not even hunting scum. It's passively letting scum win the game.
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Well, first off, if you are feeling sick I recommend doing everything in your power to get better. Forum mafia is pretty irrelevant compared to real life health problems.
That out of the way, don't fake a blueclaim then fail to back it up. Its suicide. I'll admit we might not be giving you a fair chance at other things.
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On January 31 2013 04:02 Acid~ wrote: Actually no, the job of town is to *lynch* scum. Letting town lynch someone you have a soft town read on is not lynching scum. It's not even hunting scum. It's passively letting scum win the game.
You're right that the job of town is to lynch scum. But if I'm spending all your time defending myself and other towns (which is what you seem to want me to do), then how am I going to actually hunt scum?
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EBWOP: Spending all _my_ time defending myself.
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I tried to hunt scum, and you guys went all Spanish Inquisition on my ass. I still tried to hunt scum, while explaining my actions, since you guys were grilling me so hard I figured you must really not get it.
What the fuck else am I supposed to do? I'm not SkaPunk's defense attorney.
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On January 31 2013 04:03 Sn0_Man wrote: Well, first off, if you are feeling sick I recommend doing everything in your power to get better. Forum mafia is pretty irrelevant compared to real life health problems.
That out of the way, don't fake a blueclaim then fail to back it up. Its suicide. I'll admit we might not be giving you a fair chance at other things.
Thank you. I am getting more rest and drinking lots of orange juice
First you say if I'm going to claim, I should do it immediately D2. Then you say it's suicide. Earlier you imply that killing me will help town. So why shouldn't I commit suicide? It would still be playing for my motive, since I could win later if the information is so useful to town.
I'm willing to take your advice on claims since this is my first newbie game, but your advice here doesn't add up...
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On January 31 2013 04:07 warbaby wrote: I tried to hunt scum, and you guys went all Spanish Inquisition on my ass. I still tried to hunt scum, while explaining my actions, since you guys were grilling me so hard I figured you must really not get it.
What the fuck else am I supposed to do? I'm not SkaPunk's defense attorney.
The quality of the scumhunting was, in our opinion, questionable.
It certainly isn't helping your cause that there are still 2 ultra-low content posters in this game, which kinda make it both hard for you to scumhunt and at the same time focus a lot of attention on you, but I still think you are scum so we are gonna let the flip decide. I do feel bad because the vibe that I get from you right now is that this is causing you legitimate distress, which really isn't the point of forum mafia, especially when you are sick.
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If you wish to roleclaim to avoid being mislynched, then roleclaim.
A soft roleclaim that is then backed off of is simply a scumclaim not a roleclaim.
You essentially claimed doctor, but refused to come out with it. Not good enough. Until you actually make a real blue claim, with good points, your actions look scummy.
My point about WHEN to roleclaim is merely that a last-second roleclaim is less helpful to town than a roleclaim now, so why postpone it as town?
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Also worth pointing out that the scum role cop is almost certainly going to check me, if he didn't already. So my claim might not be giving scum anything they don't already know.
I'll think about it.
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Also worth noting that if there's a doc, there's still a 20% chance that we rolled a doc + JK setup, and the JK is actually responsible for the night save.
Is there a chance that the lack of NK was due to scum making no action? (and if I'm scum, I would certainly have made a night action, lol).
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On January 30 2013 12:45 cDgCorazon wrote:along with the other reasons and you just acting like a general douchebag, are why I'm voting for you. Understand, or do I need to simplify more?
I really want to highlight that, besides his tunnelling me hardcore, there's no legitimate reason to vote Acid~. My OMGUS vote was a mistake, and I recognize that now.
I'll say it again. Voting someone for being a douchebag is silly. Further, Acid~ seems to be making an effort to be less of a douchebag, even if he's still tunnelling hardcore.
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Maybe it's confirmation bias, but warbaby's whole soft-claim thing reads to me like an attempt to bait the real doc into claiming so they can secure a night kill.
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On January 31 2013 04:55 Acid~ wrote: Maybe it's confirmation bias, but warbaby's whole soft-claim thing reads to me like an attempt to bait the real doc into claiming so they can secure a night kill.
Quite possible. The doctor can't self-protect, unfortunately. In fact, that is a very good point.
Alright, @ the real doctor: DO NOT CLAIM. Even if warbaby claims, do not counter. He will even know who you protected last night, if he is scum.
@warbaby; we already established that it is very very likely scum did do an action last night, since everybody save cakepie was around Night 1. And not doing an action is pretty silly in a scum game. This speculation doesn't look good.
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On January 31 2013 05:05 Sn0_Man wrote: @warbaby; we already established that it is very very likely scum did do an action last night, since everybody save cakepie was around Night 1. And not doing an action is pretty silly in a scum game. This speculation doesn't look good.
I asked a question because I wasn't sure.
On January 31 2013 05:05 Sn0_Man wrote: Alright, @ the real doctor: DO NOT CLAIM. Even if warbaby claims, do not counter. He will even know who you protected last night, if he is scum.
You're saying the doctor shouldn't claim. But I should claim that I'm the doctor? Telling me to fake claim is not a town-motivated action.
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Ur not the real doctor ur scum.
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Ok I've arrived at work. Dunno how much time i got tonight, so i vote before i get into trouble cause i can't play.
I still think warbaby has to die. ##Vote: warbaby Another lie (i never said ska was town). Then the "my flip will blow your mind", to "its not the best move but also not the worst". In his last posts it looks like he gave up.
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On January 31 2013 04:44 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 12:45 cDgCorazon wrote:along with the other reasons and you just acting like a general douchebag, are why I'm voting for you. Understand, or do I need to simplify more? I really want to highlight that, besides his tunnelling me hardcore, there's no legitimate reason to vote Acid~. My OMGUS vote was a mistake, and I recognize that now. I'll say it again. Voting someone for being a douchebag is silly. Further, Acid~ seems to be making an effort to be less of a douchebag, even if he's still tunnelling hardcore.
Does anyone read the full text of my argument? Way to misquote me Warbaby. Perhaps I should sign your death note... how many times have you misquoted me or twisted my words? It needs to stop.
I told you your OMGUS vote was a big mistake and you didn't listen to me. Now we are 4 hours away from the lynch and you finally realized that I was right all along? What a surprise! Thanks for dragging it out and making it a 3 page affair basically making D2 a choice between you and Acid. If we get the scum today, I guess it will be worthwhile. However, if we don't it will basically have been a day wasted because of WB and Acid.
Acid, now that it doesn't look like you are going to die today, feel like actually participating and giving out other scum reads? Saying I'm scum because I disagree with you and I voted for you isn't scum hunting. It's called OMGUSing.
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On January 31 2013 05:12 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 05:05 Sn0_Man wrote: @warbaby; we already established that it is very very likely scum did do an action last night, since everybody save cakepie was around Night 1. And not doing an action is pretty silly in a scum game. This speculation doesn't look good. I asked a question because I wasn't sure. Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 05:05 Sn0_Man wrote: Alright, @ the real doctor: DO NOT CLAIM. Even if warbaby claims, do not counter. He will even know who you protected last night, if he is scum. You're saying the doctor shouldn't claim. But I should claim that I'm the doctor? Telling me to fake claim is not a town-motivated action.
You know that at this point, you basically claimed doc without backing it up? Saying "when I flip you will shit bricks" and "imagine what happens if I am doctor", this does not help town in any way.
As townie, it's irresponsible. You risk outing the real doc and hanging yourself in the process.
As doc, you either hard claim to prevent a mislynch or STFU to preserve your cover.
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The whole doctor stuff is a straight up scumclaim as far as I'm concerned. The only confusing part is why he didn't FULLY claim doctor, but I guess he was somewhat afraid of getting called out? I'm really not sure.
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I am doctor. I used my night action on Zarepath.
I will post before lynch (if I am still set to be lynched) with a full info dump. Otherwise I will post a detailed will N2.
This flu is making me fucking delirious. That in mind, I want town to remember there is a 20% chance of JK and some unknown probability they made the N1 save. When I flip doc zare is not 100% confirmed town.
I will post more, to make my claim/suicide as useful as possible for town as soon as I'm sure I'm not spouting delirium-induced nonsense.
Hard claiming to prevent mislynch is bullshit because I will just die N2. I will try my best to make another save, but that's futile if I am the night target.
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By the way, I am using my limited sick days at work due to this flu. So unlike acid I am not just shitting you guys about my personal complications.
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On January 31 2013 06:04 warbaby wrote: I am doctor. I used my night action on Zarepath.
I will post before lynch (if I am still set to be lynched) with a full info dump. Otherwise I will post a detailed will N2.
This flu is making me fucking delirious. That in mind, I want town to remember there is a 20% chance of JK and some unknown probability they made the N1 save. When I flip doc zare is not 100% confirmed town.
I will post more, to make my claim/suicide as useful as possible for town as soon as I'm sure I'm not spouting delirium-induced nonsense.
Hard claiming to prevent mislynch is bullshit because I will just die N2. I will try my best to make another save, but that's futile if I am the night target.
Much more helpful to town. Please do post a full info dump (whatever that is supposed to mean).
I'm still convinced you are scum
If nothing else, i fail to see why scum would hit zare night 1, no matter who they were. As such, some justification of why you protected him (hypothetically) would be nice.
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Oh yeah, in the case of us having a doctor, the chances are equal of us having: A JK, A Cop, or only the Doc. So if you flip doc we have a 33% chance of there being a JK. The lack of roleblock claim however almost rules out a JK.
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On January 31 2013 06:08 warbaby wrote: By the way, I am using my limited sick days at work due to this flu. So unlike acid I am not just shitting you guys about my personal complications.
You know what sucks more than having to work like an asshole for so many days in a row? Having a prick on the internet busting your ass in a fucking game over it.
If you flip town, I hope I never have to play another game of mafia with you ever again.
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On January 31 2013 06:16 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 06:08 warbaby wrote: By the way, I am using my limited sick days at work due to this flu. So unlike acid I am not just shitting you guys about my personal complications. You know what sucks more than having to work like an asshole for so many days in a row? Having a prick on the internet busting your ass in a fucking game over it. If you flip town, I hope I never have to play another game of mafia with you ever again.
Acid you're being as much of a prick as you're claiming WB has. Why don't you practice what you preach?
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I'm also curious as to why you picked me to save. I hadn't contributed much Day 1. Although, N1 I did start making some cases, I think.
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On January 31 2013 06:10 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 06:04 warbaby wrote: I am doctor. I used my night action on Zarepath.
I will post before lynch (if I am still set to be lynched) with a full info dump. Otherwise I will post a detailed will N2.
This flu is making me fucking delirious. That in mind, I want town to remember there is a 20% chance of JK and some unknown probability they made the N1 save. When I flip doc zare is not 100% confirmed town.
I will post more, to make my claim/suicide as useful as possible for town as soon as I'm sure I'm not spouting delirium-induced nonsense.
Hard claiming to prevent mislynch is bullshit because I will just die N2. I will try my best to make another save, but that's futile if I am the night target. Much more helpful to town. Please do post a full info dump (whatever that is supposed to mean). I'm still convinced you are scum If nothing else, i fail to see why scum would hit zare night 1, no matter who they were. As such, some justification of why you protected him (hypothetically) would be nice.
I felt he was obviously reading the thread more critically than anybody else. This makes him most strategically useful to town. And thus the most strategically useful to hit.
It is 20% on Zare when I flip doc because the jk only setup is eliminated.
My top scum reads are sno and glurio, but I feel lynching slay is justifiable as LAL. More to come.
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On January 31 2013 06:17 cDgCorazon wrote: Acid you're being as much of a prick as you're claiming WB has. Why don't you practice what you preach?
+1 + Show Spoiler +I know this isn't really how you post on TL, but...
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Glurio's posting is flaccid. He plays like a terrified scum or someone who needs testosterone treatment.
Sn0 plays like a scum trying really hard and doing a decent job.
If cora is scum town is fucked. Watch this guy.
Obviously I think zare is town.
Process of elimination. QED.
Acid is the x factor which lowers the probability of my reads. Oh I do hate him so.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
Acid, that's enough. Your attitude is crossing a line. Keep it civil everyone.
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Acid is way out of control, but more than I think scum would want to be. I think the best possible scum outcome from today would be cakepie scum watching everyone lynch warbaby medic. We really have let our lurkers get away from us today -- Slayalot and cakepie mostly, although Glurio's participation was a little lacking as well. I liked what he said, but that was probably because he was just talking about warbaby. I'll have to go over the filters.
I am feeling that warbaby's medic claim is solid. It sucks that we had to make him do it, but now that it's out I think that it's for real.
##Unvote: warbaby
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You keep saying you think I'm scum, then you vote acid and slayalot... :/
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What does Corazon think we should do?
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On January 31 2013 06:31 zarepath wrote: Acid is way out of control, but more than I think scum would want to be. I think the best possible scum outcome from today would be cakepie scum watching everyone lynch warbaby medic. We really have let our lurkers get away from us today -- Slayalot and cakepie mostly, although Glurio's participation was a little lacking as well. I liked what he said, but that was probably because he was just talking about warbaby. I'll have to go over the filters.
I am feeling that warbaby's medic claim is solid. It sucks that we had to make him do it, but now that it's out I think that it's for real.
##Unvote: warbaby
Didn't see this before my last post.
His doc claim is roflgarbage. I want to see the flip.
Lurkers are a real problem admittedly, but if we spend 2 days lynching Slay and Cake, then we lose if neither of them flip scum... so we have to hit the scummy players not the lurkers at this point.
Although the silence is deafening from cakepie today.
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##Unvote: Slayalot ##Vote: glurio
Investigate glurio. Drive home the vote if it makes sense. I'll try to be around to switch back to slay if we decide to lal instead.
Help us Zarepath. You're our only hope.
I must rest now.
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On January 31 2013 06:31 zarepath wrote: What does Corazon think we should do?
First of all Zare, why are you trying to put me in the spotlight?
Second of all, WB/Acid made it all about them when they started firing the votes 10 minutes into D2. I decided between the two that my vote is going to Acid. I'm gonna stick to my guns.
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On January 31 2013 06:47 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 06:31 zarepath wrote: What does Corazon think we should do? First of all Zare, why are you trying to put me in the spotlight? Second of all, WB/Acid made it all about them when they started firing the votes 10 minutes into D2. I decided between the two that my vote is going to Acid. I'm gonna stick to my guns.
Are you SERIOUS? after all the hilarious bullshit spewing out of warbaby's mouth with half blue-claims, then a full blue claim that he protected *zarepath*, and you want to lynch acid? o_o
Admittedly acid has played like an enormous asshole all game, but... I don't (currently) think that makes him scum.
The largest problem here is that with the disparity of votes scum can last-minute voteswitch and get the lynch they want right now...
Somebody day 1 called for consolidation of voting (zare i think). Can we consolidate today please?
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I'm not switching because I know that if he flips doc I'm going to get called out on it. You guys do a great job of twisting my words. I'm sticking to my guns. If WB flips scum, just know that I put pressure on him too.
If anyone has been listening to anything I say besides what they use to twist my words, it's a tough call. Both have been playing really terrible games. I just feel like Acid's is just a bit worse at this point still.
Just as he called out WB, this is his contribution to the scum hunt: | |
(The space in between the lines is his contribution.)
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Hmmm.
While I don't believe that this happened, it is also possible that scum killed nobody night 1 to allow them an easy doctor claim (and to mislead any doctor) but that doesn't really make sense to me since they don't know what blues town got.
@the real doctor: If it looks like warbaby will get off today with a fake doctor claim, feel free to pipe up. I changed my mind, lynching scum is more important than your personal safety (IMO). Of course, if warbaby is actually the doctor then... o_o
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In case I dont make it back.
##vote: Warbaby (I don't believe the doc claim - It's like the poker all-in move when you have only a few chips left.. It's not scaring me off)
I know you guys need more posts from me - but It's not going to change. On a daily basis I'm considering to ask for a replacement. Because I want you guys to have the best experience. I'm down from reading everything very detailed, to reading 90% and skimming the rest. I won't sign up for online mafia again (promise) If everyone feels like I should /replace, I can do that. But if not, I'll continue to play like I am now.
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On January 31 2013 06:57 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm not switching because I know that if he flips doc I'm going to get called out on it. You guys do a great job of twisting my words. I'm sticking to my guns. If WB flips scum, just know that I put pressure on him too.
If anyone has been listening to anything I say besides what they use to twist my words, it's a tough call. Both have been playing really terrible games. I just feel like Acid's is just a bit worse at this point still.
Just as he called out WB, this is his contribution to the scum hunt: | |
(The space in between the lines is his contribution.)
I have a plenty strong town read on you, don't worry about your own image, nail the scum. If he turns out doctor its me and acid who screwed up. Voting acid when he clearly won't get lynched today is not helping town. All you do is make the scum votes more powerful by throwing yours away.
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##Vote: Warbaby
Forgot Bold
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On January 31 2013 07:02 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 06:57 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm not switching because I know that if he flips doc I'm going to get called out on it. You guys do a great job of twisting my words. I'm sticking to my guns. If WB flips scum, just know that I put pressure on him too.
If anyone has been listening to anything I say besides what they use to twist my words, it's a tough call. Both have been playing really terrible games. I just feel like Acid's is just a bit worse at this point still.
Just as he called out WB, this is his contribution to the scum hunt: | |
(The space in between the lines is his contribution.) I have a plenty strong town read on you, don't worry about your own image, nail the scum. If he turns out doctor its me and acid who screwed up. Voting acid when he clearly won't get lynched today is not helping town. All you do is make the scum votes more powerful by throwing yours away.
I don't believe I am throwing mine away though. I'm just too hesitant to vote out WB. I really think Acid is scummier than WB. I know they've both been playing ridiculously erratically, it's just that WB has made more mistakes because he has been more outspoken than Acid.
Just take a look at the state of the town D1. It was mostly silent after the beginning. He was part of the silent group. Even in D2, we've still had enough lurkers to where someone can hide behind not posting.
If we imagined that the average town activity was on a graph, and it was a straight line (obviously it's differed, but to make things easier, it's going to be a straight line). A normal townie would either be making a zig-zag above and below the line, or being constantly above the line. A townie is trying to create discussion and keep things running. However, a scum would be more willing to blend in (constantly on the line with the town average). WB's line has mostly been above the town average, while Acid's line has been right along the town average line. Who is doing more blending in, WB or Acid?
WB has at least admitted that we should try and explore other options, whereas Acid's contribution has been "I'm innocent, kill Warbaby". I've asked him several times to give us alternate scum (and others have asked as well), and besides OMGUSing me, he hasn't done that at all.
Of course Warbaby is more likely to make slip-ups, he has been more active. The more posts you make, the more likely you are to slip up. I just have the bad town read on WB, and I can't see why we should not vote off Acid.
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Slay, you need to either post as much as zarepath or not at all. Making these few posts is really hurting town. You make sensible posts but your play is so passive, it can't possibly help town actually find scum.
We're giving slay a free ride to parrot others and act like the confused innocent. What if he's scum?
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On January 31 2013 07:16 cDgCorazon wrote: Of course Warbaby is more likely to make slip-ups, he has been more active. The more posts you make, the more likely you are to slip up. I just have the bad town read on WB, and I can't see why we should not vote off Acid.
Because acid~ is contributing fairly well now, even if he is still tunnelling me. Your reason to vote acid is that he's being a dbag but being a dbag is not a scum read. You have 3 options: vote someone you have an actual scum read on, vote a lurker, or vote no-lynch.
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On January 31 2013 06:57 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm not switching because I know that if he flips doc I'm going to get called out on it. You guys do a great job of twisting my words. I'm sticking to my guns. If WB flips scum, just know that I put pressure on him too.
If anyone has been listening to anything I say besides what they use to twist my words, it's a tough call. Both have been playing really terrible games. I just feel like Acid's is just a bit worse at this point still.
Just as he called out WB, this is his contribution to the scum hunt: | |
(The space in between the lines is his contribution.)
I actually made a real case against warbaby that included elements that no one, not even him, were able to refute or explain. You also need to accept the fact that different people have different time commitments and availabilities. If you look at my posting pattern this game, you'll see it's roughly the same as in XXXV (low weekend activity, weekdays activity concentrated on early afternoon/late evening) that's just how it is. Work > mafia.
Speaking of blending in however, how am I more scummy than Slayalot on that front?
He's allowed to not contribute because of his work, but I'm not?
The problem I have with you is not that you're attacking me. It's that you're doing so by using bullshit reasons. I did what you asked btw, and re-reading the thread with a clear head I can actually envision a scenario where warbaby is town. Unfortunately in that scenario you are scum. Pushing the two most aggressive townies against each other is a good plan, so well played.
Until we get a counter doc claim:
##Unvote: warbaby ##Vote: cDgCorazon
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Sick move Acid. I like you. But the more I think about it, the more I just want to lynch Slay. His last post is almost anti-town in it's complete lack of effort.
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Lynch is in less than 2.5 hours guys. We need to get our votes in, and we need to consolidate.
If you don't want to lynch warbaby (who I think has 3 votes right now), you need to provide a viable alternate candidate with strong evidence. Otherwise, scum are going to be able to change the lynch to whoever they want with their 2 votes. At this point, the only person who I could see justifying over warbaby is Cakepie because of his super-hardcore lurker status (or maybe slay for similar reasons). I'd rather lynch what I feel is scum over a lurker though unless you can provide good reasons.
No warbaby, I do not wish to hear any self-defense anymore.
[green]I'd really like an official votecount to see where we are. Thanks [/green
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I fail so much. EBWOP
I'd really like an official votecount to see where we are. Thanks
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On January 31 2013 07:43 Sn0_Man wrote:you need to provide a viable alternate candidate with strong evidence.]
My case on Glurio is not strong at all. I was hoping someone else would find something in his filter, but no luck.
Vote consolidation is necessary, but IMO it is the point at which scum can fuck over town the most, by making the least effort. We need to proceed with caution.
I hope you don't see this post as defending myself, because it's not.
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Wow Acid, that was like the most delayed OMGUS I've ever seen.
I did not make any plan to have you two fight each other. You two initiated it on the first hours of Day 1. Good job twisting my words (I do believe that it brings up the count to 3 people who have done so now).
I've been accused of wasting my vote, now you're doing the same thing yourself. I envisioned a scenario where WB is town and you are scum. So basically, you're voting for me because you agree with me. That makes no sense.
Slay has been constantly inactive. The town activity level has shifted from way down on D1 to almost normal on D2. Your activity has followed that same pattern as well. I'm not saying that lurking doesn't make you scum, but you're blending in a lot more with your activity level than what Slay is.
You're hoping for a counter doc claim to kill off WB. A counter-claim does absolutely nothing for the town besides getting a Doctor killed and Warbaby executed (which it looks like we might not even need a counter-claim to get him lynched). That in itself is a scummy move.
At least Slay voted D1...
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Lurker 1: cakpie. His single post was probably more useful than all of the contributions of, Lurker 2: Slay
We need to get rid of these clowns before we can properly scumhunt. I am most comfortable at this point lynching a lurker.
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On January 31 2013 07:49 warbaby wrote: Lurker 1: cakpie. His single post was probably more useful than all of the contributions of, Lurker 2: Slay
We need to get rid of these clowns before we can properly scumhunt. I am most comfortable at this point lynching a lurker.
Warbaby can't properly scumhunt until we kill the last 2 lurkers, yet from day 1 he was self-proclaimed "scumhunting" and anybody who questioned him was clearly scum-loving.
Can we PLEASE kill Warbaby?
@Acid: are you seriously voting cora? o_o where did everything go so wrong... Cora is *not* scum.
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On January 30 2013 08:13 cDgCorazon wrote: Yeah I mismanaged the time. However, I do mean that I will stick to Acid unless he provides a solid defense and stops tunneling WB.
Well done, you've managed to put up a decent defense. I'll let you off the hook on that one.
Make an argument against me or someone else that doesn't involve you twisting words, misquoting, or accusing someone of things they didn't do.
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On January 31 2013 07:54 Sn0_Man wrote:
Warbaby can't properly scumhunt until we kill the last 2 lurkers, yet from day 1 he was self-proclaimed "scumhunting" and anybody who questioned him was clearly scum-loving.
Can we PLEASE kill Warbaby?
Yet again you box me into this shit. We can't scumhunt most effectively when we have lurkers around. But that's not going to stop me from doing my damnest to scumhunt anyway. Stop saying stupid shit like this, it's wasting our time.
Who do we have scum reads on? Me? Then lynch me now.
Glurio? So weak.
Sn0_man? Again, weak.
Cora? I'm interested in this theory.
That said, how can we seriously lynch any of these people right now (excepting myself, in your eyes at least)? It's almost a random lynch.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
Vote Count:
warbaby (3): Acid~, Sn0_Man, zarepath, glurio, Slayalot Acid~ (1): warbaby, cDgCorazon glurio (1): warbaby cDgCorazon (1): Acid~ Slayalot (0): warbaby
2 hours to the lynch I believe
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On January 31 2013 07:48 cDgCorazon wrote: Wow Acid, that was like the most delayed OMGUS I've ever seen.
I did not make any plan to have you two fight each other. You two initiated it on the first hours of Day 1. Good job twisting my words (I do believe that it brings up the count to 3 people who have done so now).
I've been accused of wasting my vote, now you're doing the same thing yourself. I envisioned a scenario where WB is town and you are scum. So basically, you're voting for me because you agree with me. That makes no sense.
Slay has been constantly inactive. The town activity level has shifted from way down on D1 to almost normal on D2. Your activity has followed that same pattern as well. I'm not saying that lurking doesn't make you scum, but you're blending in a lot more with your activity level than what Slay is.
You're hoping for a counter doc claim to kill off WB. A counter-claim does absolutely nothing for the town besides getting a Doctor killed and Warbaby executed (which it looks like we might not even need a counter-claim to get him lynched). That in itself is a scummy move.
At least Slay voted D1...
By god, you're right. The most sensible explanation is that instead of working I spent all day analyzing the town activity in order to make my own activity align to the average!
It makes perfect sense!
And in a shocking twist, the guy who lurked the WHOLE game, played it safe, never offended anybody, slipped under the radar by voting along with bandwagon - he is less scummy than me. Because... logic? Because If I am scum and no-voting intentionally, I wouldn't have an excuse ready beforehand, like ALL the scum who do such things?
Just refer to newbie XXXV: no-vote because of RL issues, doesn't warn in advance - is town (OmniEulogy) no-vote with a lame excuse well prepared several hours before the vote - is scum (JSL)
Also, you might want to look up the definition of OMGUS because I've given plenty of valid reasons for why I think you're suspicious. My vote coming second doesn't make it OMGUS. This game is not a race any more than a popularity contest.
What really troubles me, however, re-reading the thread, is that warbaby just basically OMGUSed me for no reason. Whereas you gave reasons for voting me. All bullshit. The former attitude I can attribute to angry/confused town. The latter is scum.
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##Unvote: Glurio ##Vote: Slayalot
If someone can pin something real on glurio, besides his really blendy and somewhat mediocre play, then I'd still be interested in lynching him now. But as it is my case is too weak.
I'm going with the safe choice, a lurker. I think in the current environment it's too easy for scum to lead the lynch to a useful town. If they mislynch me, there's an 80% chance there is no JK (eg, nobody there to save your sorry asses N2).
Why vote Slay over Cake? Slay says he still does not plan to contribute more. Cake at least claims he's going to make an effort as soon as he can.
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On January 31 2013 07:54 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 07:49 warbaby wrote: Lurker 1: cakpie. His single post was probably more useful than all of the contributions of, Lurker 2: Slay
We need to get rid of these clowns before we can properly scumhunt. I am most comfortable at this point lynching a lurker. Warbaby can't properly scumhunt until we kill the last 2 lurkers, yet from day 1 he was self-proclaimed "scumhunting" and anybody who questioned him was clearly scum-loving. Can we PLEASE kill Warbaby? @Acid: are you seriously voting cora? o_o where did everything go so wrong... Cora is *not* scum.
You don't see any validity in warbaby's doc claim? I hear what you're saying about Cora. I heard it the first time. I'm just not convinced yet.
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I'm sorry but i won't switch right now. His claim looks like scum trying to stay alive. He by far made the most mistakes all game. His really suspicious D1 last minute vote switch. He had two scumreads and switched his vote to a lurker. After that he started calling his own reads weak. All this claiming, switching votes randomly. ("How can we seriously lynch any of these people right now, its almost a random lynch." Quote warbaby, while still voting for one of them.) Clear scum for me.
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On January 31 2013 08:07 warbaby wrote: ##Unvote: Glurio ##Vote: Slayalot
If someone can pin something real on glurio, besides his really blendy and somewhat mediocre play, then I'd still be interested in lynching him now. But as it is my case is too weak.
I'm going with the safe choice, a lurker. I think in the current environment it's too easy for scum to lead the lynch to a useful town. If they mislynch me, there's an 80% chance there is no JK (eg, nobody there to save your sorry asses N2).
Why vote Slay over Cake? Slay says he still does not plan to contribute more. Cake at least claims he's going to make an effort as soon as he can.
Can you make a real case on Slayalot? I want to believe, but you need to convince the other townies as well.
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On January 31 2013 08:06 Acid~ wrote: What really troubles me, however, re-reading the thread, is that warbaby just basically OMGUSed me for no reason. Whereas you gave reasons for voting me. All bullshit. The former attitude I can attribute to angry/confused town. The latter is scum.
Well, I did try to give reasons later, but now I realize it was an OMGUS 4rela.
Cora's vote on Acid~ doesn't make sense to me anymore. Does it make sense to anybody else?
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Seriously Acid, I told you to stop talking about WB like 5 million times.
Why won't you let WB go for 5 freaking minutes? Why did you lie about something I did in your first vote post? Why did you dodge my first argument, say its BS (at least 24 hours later), and now defend yourself when I voted for you? Why are you OMGUSing me (you are) when you just blamed Acid for the same thing?
You really think my reasons are BS? No one else has said that my reasons are BS (besides Zare, who didn't even look at my argument post, only the stuff after it).
Why is your activity level rising in falling with the overall activity level with the town? Why couldn't you have taken 2 minutes to tell us that you were busy on D1 and taken a vote?
These are the questions you need to answer. "Because I have work" isn't going to cut it for me. The fact that you dodged my argument because it was BS is contradicting your play now. If you say both of my arguments are BS now, why are you answering the one with the vote behind it?
If you think I'm a bigger scum than WB, you need to stop attacking him in every post you make, especially when you're not even targeting him.
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On January 31 2013 08:12 Acid~ wrote: Can you make a real case on Slayalot? I want to believe, but you need to convince the other townies as well.
No, it's a LAL vote. I only make cases when I vote for scum.
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EBWOP: I only make a case when I *think* I'm going to vote for scum.
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On January 31 2013 08:11 glurio wrote: I'm sorry but i won't switch right now. His claim looks like scum trying to stay alive. He by far made the most mistakes all game. His really suspicious D1 last minute vote switch. He had two scumreads and switched his vote to a lurker. After that he started calling his own reads weak. All this claiming, switching votes randomly. ("How can we seriously lynch any of these people right now, its almost a random lynch." Quote warbaby, while still voting for one of them.) Clear scum for me.
I take doc claims seriously, especially in the absence of counter-claims. Remember there is a 5/6 chance of having at least one protective role in this setup and he is the only one who claimed any.
Having two people claim doc means one of them is scum 100% and I'm ok with trading a doc for 50% of the scum team. I might not make the same gambit in a larger game, but here it seems advantageous.
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On January 31 2013 08:11 glurio wrote: I'm sorry but i won't switch right now. His claim looks like scum trying to stay alive. He by far made the most mistakes all game. His really suspicious D1 last minute vote switch. He had two scumreads and switched his vote to a lurker. After that he started calling his own reads weak. All this claiming, switching votes randomly. ("How can we seriously lynch any of these people right now, its almost a random lynch." Quote warbaby, while still voting for one of them.) Clear scum for me.
Towns do not defend. Towns attack. You're putting very little effort into your attack on me.
Also, I do also make cases when they're bullshit, to pressure people. I'm not doing that now because I'm too ill to be sure my bullshit cases will be convincing enough to get a rise.
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On January 31 2013 08:19 Acid~ wrote: Having two people claim doc means one of them is scum 100% and I'm ok with trading a doc for 50% of the scum team. I might not make the same gambit in a larger game, but here it seems advantageous.
I disagree here. I think we should try to protect the blue roles as best as possible. We don't know who the other scum could possibly be (because we've been wasting our time with WB v Acid). They could be another bad player, or they could be someone blending in well enough with the town where it is not obvious. I feel like if we sacrifice the doc now to get 1 scum offed, a good scum could sit here and ruin our day, especially if they had no hinderance to their choice of NK.
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CORAZON IS SCUM
##Vote cDgCorazon
If warbaby is telling the truth, and we have no counterclaim to say otherwise, I was set to be lynched N1. What happened N1? I made a case on Corazon.
What happened afterwards? corazon made a post defending himself from my read but also going out of his way to say that I was a good town and doing good work. Medic sees that and thinks, "Oh, Corazon likes zarepath; he must not be mafia."
Day 2. I assumed all of his posturing with warbaby was to make warbaby look like a bad town so we wouldn't lynch him -- in reality, it was to get him riled up so that we would lynch him but he would look like he was in the right to only consider him bad town.
He goes out of his way to say "We have wasted our day going between warbaby and Acid," he always talks about how it's ONLY between those two (nice for mafia planning for us to have to choose between two townies). Corazon has looked scummy, but now that I truly bleieve warbaby is telling the truth, Corazon looks VERY scummy.
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Zarepath delivers. I need to do some more reading before I vote cora, though.
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Biggest problem I have with this, is that Cora is the only one I suggested might be playing a good scum game.
If zarepath is scum (which means there is a JK and I did *not* save Zare N1), and he anticipates that town is at least partially swinging in my favor, then this is an easy mislynch for zarepath.
I want to hear others' thoughts on this.
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Zare, did you even think that scum could have taken that same thing into account and attacked you to paint me in a bad light? Imagine if you had died and flipped town. Someone else would have made the same connection as you and I would have been lynched without a doubt.
I truly think that WB is bad town, and that Acid is scum. I've laid out all of my cards on the table.
I hate to set off the WIFOM bombs, but Zare was the one who forced me to.
As I told Acid, I did not set up the WB v Acid lynch decision. I was trying to prevent it. It's their stubbornness that has caused this to be the focus of D2. It was nothing by my doing.
It's also funny how you made a case against me 90 minutes before the lynch deadline, and only used information stemming from 12 hours ago and earlier. Pretty amazing.
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Clarification: It's scummy that Corazon has been simultaneously condemning town for focusing on warbaby/Acid and also framing the day's discussion in terms of warbaby vs. Acid, especially considering how he riled up warbaby so much early in the day (but then only to suggest, after all that, that warbaby is just bad town. But don't let that stop the lynch!)
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I didn't really look at things this way until I considered that warbaby is actually a cop. things make much more sense now; the things that happened 12 hours ago now look much more scummy.
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On January 31 2013 08:14 cDgCorazon wrote: Seriously Acid, I told you to stop talking about WB like 5 million times.
Why won't you let WB go for 5 freaking minutes? Because I want to discuss his doc claim as it seems very important to me, for the reasons outlined in my previous post.
Why did you lie about something I did in your first vote post?
Why are you lying now? I never lied.
Why did you dodge my first argument, say its BS (at least 24 hours later), and now defend yourself when I voted for you?
I already went over this, learn to read.
Why are you OMGUSing me (you are)
I'm not. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Oh_My_God_You_Suck
I stated my reasons for voting you, it is not *because* you voted for me, but because of the *reasons*, which are bullshit.
when you just blamed Acid for the same thing?
Now you're just saying crazy things.
You really think my reasons are BS? Yes
No one else has said that my reasons are BS
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon
(besides Zare, who didn't even look at my argument post, only the stuff after it).
Why is your activity level rising in falling with the overall activity level with the town?
I have no idea how you can know that. As stated, I post in early afternoon and late evening, Paris time, because that's when I am free to play. There's no agenda there, just a timetable.
Why couldn't you have taken 2 minutes to tell us that you were busy on D1 and taken a vote?
Because I left home around 5 pm? sunday afternoon, something like that. I expected to be back before the lynch, instead I slept on the couch of the editing room along with the rest of my team because when you have a deadline you fucking meet it. "I have work" should be good enough. I don't like to talk about my private life with strangers on the internet.
These are the questions you need to answer. "Because I have work" isn't going to cut it for me. The fact that you dodged my argument because it was BS is contradicting your play now. If you say both of my arguments are BS now, why are you answering the one with the vote behind it?
Because I was content with ignoring you when I thought you were only wrong. Now I think you're scum so I need to take apart your bullshit to have the other townies on my side.
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warbaby, I was the first to unvote you (as far as I can tell). I'm also putting myself way out here for Corazon.
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Can we get a votecount? seriously, I'm losing track of who is voting who here
Also, THIS IS WHY WE NEED TO CONSOLIDATE. 1.5 hours to lynch and everybody is throwing fingers at people we didn't even suspect 2 hours ago. WTF IS THIS? unbelievable.
Can we have the real doctor claim at this point?
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On January 31 2013 08:32 zarepath wrote: I didn't really look at things this way until I considered that warbaby is actually a cop. things make much more sense now; the things that happened 12 hours ago now look much more scummy.
He isn't cop he claimed doctor rofl.
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On January 31 2013 08:32 zarepath wrote: I didn't really look at things this way until I considered that warbaby is actually a cop. things make much more sense now; the things that happened 12 hours ago now look much more scummy.
More precision on that? What makes you think WB is cop and why would he doc claim instead of cop claim?
What happened 12 hours ago that looks so scummy?
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Yeah whatever, the blue one
I am very convinced of this Corazon case. I have no idea why people are still voting for a medic claimer with no competing claim. I did that myself in a recent newbie game, figuring that he must be super duper sneaky and the real cop just isn't available... guess what? He was cop. That doesn't mean for sure that warbaby isn't lying, but as a general rule, it's pretty silly to vote for a medic claimer when nobody else is claiming it.
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sorry, slip of tongue, I meant medic. The point is that it's a role claim that nobody else can fight against.
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Zare did you even look at my defense?
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On January 31 2013 08:33 zarepath wrote: warbaby, I was the first to unvote you (as far as I can tell). I'm also putting myself way out here for Corazon.
OK. We still cannot assume scum failed to make an action N1. So I have a 80% town - (some random probability of no N1 action) read on you.
This is just barely enough to make me vote with you. That and the fact that Cora's current vote makes no sense to me -- confusion is the tool of scum.
But if you're wrong, and cora flips town, then you and I are in some serious shit. I'm probably dying anyway, though, in the night kill. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!
##Unvote: Slayalot ##Vote: cdgCorazon
(I'm still interested in LAL on Slay, but since I am basically all-in, I need to trust my town read on zarepath.)
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Your defense wasn't very compelling.
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So, we have located the bandwagon scum wishes to push, and it is on corazon. Somewhat interesting.
Is it currently 3-2 in favour of lynching cora with acid, zare and war all for cora, cora for acid and me/slay on warbaby? interesting.
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Corazon arguing that we had a good chance of lynching scum from lurkers Day 1 and then turning around and saying we had NO chance after the flip, all of Corazon's over the top facetious comments towards warbaby and yet distancing himself by calling him bad town, while still framing the days' vote between Acid and warbaby, while still condemning town for only looking at Acid and warbaby (in a fatalistic way, not in a way suggesting that we look at other people now), while remaining pretty silent and letting others pressure warbaby about his soft town claim -- as soon as warbaby started suggesting the medic claim, corazon was nowhere to be seen.
I feel pretty good about this one.
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On January 31 2013 06:26 warbaby wrote: If cora is scum town is fucked. Watch this guy.
I really believe this. Cora accuses Acid of being shady, but I feel now it's Cora who is most shady in this game.
And shadyness is definitely scummy.
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On January 28 2013 05:08 cDgCorazon wrote: Well there's a 1/3rd chance that we lynch the right player if we LAL today. So there's not much to lose on a lurker lynch.
I really hope that all three of them aren't mafia, because if they do not vote and get modkilled (I hope I'm not breaking a rule by saying that) there are some scary players waiting in the replacement section if they're all mafia.
Just theorycrafting. Hosts let me know if I broke any rules by speculating about it.
Not only is this wrong, as I pointed out on my case against warbaby (this is the part where I admit my tunneling prevented me from noticing Corazon was the first to mention the 1/3 chance), but it directly contradicts this:
On January 28 2013 10:06 cDgCorazon wrote: Well, the chances of us getting a scum D1 were zero. I'm gonna relook over the day's events and let you all know if I find anything of importance.
We go from "not much to lose on a lurker lynch" to "well we didn't have a chance anyway".
And then, there it is:
On January 31 2013 00:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I don't believe I contradicted myself when I said that 33% (it's actually 2/9, which I believe is around 22%. Don't quote me on that though) was still a low percentage.
Re: pushing us against each other:
On January 30 2013 07:57 cDgCorazon wrote: Alright, so after taking Acid's response into account, here is my action for D2 (barring something crazy).
To me, this day has come down to "Should we lynch WB or Acid?".
You are the first to introduce this notion and now you can't lie your way out of it. It's right there in the quote.
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On January 31 2013 08:46 Sn0_Man wrote: So, we have located the bandwagon scum wishes to push, and it is on corazon. Somewhat interesting.
Scum would rather that they bandwagon on an obvious choice, not go out of their way to make a new one on somebody else and put themselves out there on the flip. I don't like how you make this an absolute without even considering that the people voting for Corazon aren't scum.
What do you think of warbaby's claim? Because if he's telling the truth, he and I are most likely town, and you just called us scum bandwagoners.
But you took your vote off of warbaby. If you think he's scum, why isn't it still there?
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Alright guys, I'm going to make this quick. I'm claiming VT. That's right. I'm a Vanilla townie.
My proposed scumteam is WB and Zare, and here's why.
WARNING: MASSIVE WIFOM BOMBS I think WB and Zare are both scum. WB has officially bitten the hand that feeds, which I absolutely hate from anyone. It's scummy.
Zare has only made cases on me and WB since he has played the game.
Here's what I think their plan is: Sn0 points out the inconsistencies in things I've said N1. Zare basically steals everything Sn0 says and says I am scum and makes a whole case against me.
Their plan is to not attack anyone, so Warbaby can claim doctor and Zare can say that I attacked him because he made a case against me and I called him a good town (basically everything he used in his argument against me).
Acid tunnels WB and I tell both of them to stop it. Warbaby and Zare both know that I was against them tunneling each other, and WB continues to tunnel Acid and get me to argue with him and waste three pages of thread space, which means that I can be blamed for being a distraction to town.
Zare begins to bus WB because he thinks that WB is going to die. However, once he sees that the pressure on WB lifts, he decides to get me voted out, using his silly reasoning and giant amounts of WIFOM due to what actually happened. Why do you think he was so spot on in what he thought scum did?
Zare and WB have come up with an elaborate plan that involves them exploiting the holes in my play and making them bigger in order to get me lynched. That way, they can get a town player killed, and escape at least some of the blame.
Do you notice how both of them have twisted my words and made lies about what I did?
I'd vote Zare off today, but WB is more likely to die.
##Unvote ##Vote: Warbaby
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EBWOP: apparently snoman didn't unvote, never mind that point
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@ Acid: I never said there was much to gain about LALing D1. I just didn't say there was much to lose. There is a difference between the two.
It was a low-risk, most likely low-reward move LALing on D1.
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HOW IS WARBABY SCUM IF NOBODY ELSE CAN CONTRADICT HIS MEDIC CLAIM?
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BECAUSE THE MEDIC HAS BEEN WARNED TO NOT COUNTER-CLAIM. ARE YOU READING THE THREAD?
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On January 31 2013 08:53 zarepath wrote: HOW IS WARBABY SCUM IF NOBODY ELSE CAN CONTRADICT HIS MEDIC CLAIM?
only 5 of 8 players even appear to have read the thread since he claimed
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On January 31 2013 08:50 cDgCorazon wrote: Alright guys, I'm going to make this quick. I'm claiming VT. That's right. I'm a Vanilla townie.
My proposed scumteam is WB and Zare, and here's why.
WARNING: MASSIVE WIFOM BOMBS I think WB and Zare are both scum. WB has officially bitten the hand that feeds, which I absolutely hate from anyone. It's scummy.
Zare has only made cases on me and WB since he has played the game.
Here's what I think their plan is: Sn0 points out the inconsistencies in things I've said N1. Zare basically steals everything Sn0 says and says I am scum and makes a whole case against me.
Their plan is to not attack anyone, so Warbaby can claim doctor and Zare can say that I attacked him because he made a case against me and I called him a good town (basically everything he used in his argument against me).
Acid tunnels WB and I tell both of them to stop it. Warbaby and Zare both know that I was against them tunneling each other, and WB continues to tunnel Acid and get me to argue with him and waste three pages of thread space, which means that I can be blamed for being a distraction to town.
Zare begins to bus WB because he thinks that WB is going to die. However, once he sees that the pressure on WB lifts, he decides to get me voted out, using his silly reasoning and giant amounts of WIFOM due to what actually happened. Why do you think he was so spot on in what he thought scum did?
Zare and WB have come up with an elaborate plan that involves them exploiting the holes in my play and making them bigger in order to get me lynched. That way, they can get a town player killed, and escape at least some of the blame.
Do you notice how both of them have twisted my words and made lies about what I did?
I'd vote Zare off today, but WB is more likely to die.
##Unvote ##Vote: Warbaby
Just so I understand this correctly: you claim that the scum plan was to waste a night kill in order to secure a day lynch which would cast severe suspicions on them both after you flipped town?
If they wanted to get rid of you so bad, why wouldn't they just kill you N1?
A wise and handsome man told me after the last game to always KISS. The most simple explanation is often the correct one.
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Like, seriously, how is it even possible? there is no way for scum to know whether there is a medic or not -- it would be suicide for scum to claim medic without knowing if there actually is one or not. he did so early in the day (not as early as we would've liked obviously) with plenty of time for a counterclaim.
Corazon yet somehow thinks we are a scum team? We've tied ourselves to each other in a super obvious way -- he with claiming the save, me with believing him and defending him. this would be the worst scum play in the world -- well, second worst, after claiming medic several hours before lynch deadline without knowing whether there's a medic.
There is no rationale behind Corazon believing us both to be scum -- he is just trying to save himself by putting a fourth vote on warbaby under awful reasoning. He is willfully ignoring AN UNCONTESTED ROLE CLAIM.
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At this point, I could actually see something like an acid/zare scumteam but we can't lynch one of them in time I don't think. Still fairly confident warbaby is scum though.
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On January 31 2013 08:54 cDgCorazon wrote: BECAUSE THE MEDIC HAS BEEN WARNED TO NOT COUNTER-CLAIM. ARE YOU READING THE THREAD? And then asked repeatedly by the same person to claim anyway!
There is no way a medic in his right mind would NOT counter-claim right now.
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Imagine if I hadn't put this to light and I get lynched.
WB can still have a valid doctor claim (unless someone counter claims). Zare could chalk it up to the scum not thinking about the plan that he proposed.
You would probably be on the chopping block.
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On January 31 2013 08:58 Sn0_Man wrote: At this point, I could actually see something like an acid/zare scumteam but we can't lynch one of them in time I don't think. Still fairly confident warbaby is scum though.
You yourself have been begging fo ra counterclaim... how can you be so confident with an uncontested claim? This doesn't make any sense to me.
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You're trying to use the "so-scummy-it-can't-possibly-be-scummy" defense.
Alright guys, I have to go. I hope you all listen to me, and if you do decide to lynch me, look at my theory and all of my reads after I flip VT. Thanks.
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On January 31 2013 08:58 Sn0_Man wrote: At this point, I could actually see something like an acid/zare scumteam but we can't lynch one of them in time I don't think. Still fairly confident warbaby is scum though.
Glad to see you finally showing your true colors.
Guys, when warbaby flips medic you know we need to lynch Corazon and Snoman, right?
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On January 31 2013 08:59 cDgCorazon wrote: Imagine if I hadn't put this to light and I get lynched.
WB can still have a valid doctor claim (unless someone counter claims). Zare could chalk it up to the scum not thinking about the plan that he proposed.
You would probably be on the chopping block.
If he still has a valid doctor claim possibility, why are you voting for him??? And if it's a valid claim, then I am town because I was saved, except for the 1/4 chance that ther eis also a jailkeeper who ALSO picked me (completely randomly), but I would know, and I didn't get the notification. The chances are astronomically small.
There is NO REASON to believe warbaby is scum at this point. You yourself believe his claim could be true... but you're voting for him? Just to save yourself, obviously, not because of any rational logic.
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+1 on snoman, Acid.
The lack of bandwagoning on Cora is a bit scummy IMO. If he were VT as he claims, the other scum would bandwagon him.
Assuming you believe my claim, and that zarepath is not scum.
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On January 31 2013 08:11 glurio wrote: I'm sorry but i won't switch right now. His claim looks like scum trying to stay alive. He by far made the most mistakes all game. His really suspicious D1 last minute vote switch. He had two scumreads and switched his vote to a lurker. After that he started calling his own reads weak. All this claiming, switching votes randomly. ("How can we seriously lynch any of these people right now, its almost a random lynch." Quote warbaby, while still voting for one of them.) Clear scum for me.
In light of the recent developments, are you willing to change your vote? We have less than an hour and Slayalot is most definitely not going to switch.
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How anybody reading this thread can NOT see this as a scum bandwagon started to save one of their own is beyond me.
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On January 31 2013 09:03 warbaby wrote: +1 on snoman, Acid.
The lack of bandwagoning on Cora is a bit scummy IMO. If he were VT as he claims, the other scum would bandwagon him.
Assuming you believe my claim, and that zarepath is not scum.
Well yeah, at this point the associations make it pretty obvious. In my mind scum team is either you+zare or cora+sno.
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Acid~ is playing really good town now, IMO. Him and Zare are putting their necks out for the Cora vote. Glurio if you are AFK I hope you fall into a box full of bees.
There can't be 3 scum, guys. It can't be me, acid, and zare.
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On January 31 2013 09:06 Sn0_Man wrote: How anybody reading this thread can NOT see this as a scum bandwagon started to save one of their own is beyond me.
Because that would mean I am scum, and I know that I am not scum.
LOGIC
Anyway, if you want us to believe your breadcrumbing on Cora you need to hard claim cop at this point.
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On January 31 2013 09:10 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 09:06 Sn0_Man wrote: How anybody reading this thread can NOT see this as a scum bandwagon started to save one of their own is beyond me. Because that would mean I am scum, and I know that I am not scum. LOGIC Anyway, if you want us to believe your breadcrumbing on Cora you need to hard claim cop at this point.
Fine. I'm the cop and I checked cora last night. He came back clean.
It explains my views on the Doc/JK situation (I forgot about there being both cuz THERE CAN"T BE) and it explains my 180 on cora (who I thought was scummy day 1 and night 1, before I received the results)
Happy? now scum have me as an easy target tonight.
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GLURIO MAKE A POST ASAP PLEASE. THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME.
If you're still going to vote for me, Glurio, explain who you think could be the other scum.
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On January 31 2013 09:11 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 09:10 Acid~ wrote:On January 31 2013 09:06 Sn0_Man wrote: How anybody reading this thread can NOT see this as a scum bandwagon started to save one of their own is beyond me. Because that would mean I am scum, and I know that I am not scum. LOGIC Anyway, if you want us to believe your breadcrumbing on Cora you need to hard claim cop at this point. Fine. I'm the cop and I checked cora last night. He came back clean. It explains my views on the Doc/JK situation (I forgot about there being both cuz THERE CAN"T BE) and it explains my 180 on cora (who I thought was scummy day 1 and night 1, before I received the results) Happy? now scum have me as an easy target tonight.
If this is true, I'm sorry if this seems cold but I'm fine with trading a blue role for 50% of a scum team. I have less than an hour to re-read your filter and check if what you say makes sense, but I'll do it.
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Dammit you guys I can't process all this new information fast enough.
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All this plays fairly directly into scum hands today... sigh. One way or the other,
ONE OF THE HORSES IN THIS RACE ISNT SCUM AND HIS NAME IS CORAZON.
The other one (warbaby) we really don't know about. I think he is scum. I *can't* change my vote now or else known town gets lynched. This is why I asked for a decent alternative to warbaby that everybody could consolidate on: so that scum's votes wouldn't be so strong.
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Slayalot is the only acceptable alternative, IMO.
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On January 31 2013 09:14 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 09:11 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 31 2013 09:10 Acid~ wrote:On January 31 2013 09:06 Sn0_Man wrote: How anybody reading this thread can NOT see this as a scum bandwagon started to save one of their own is beyond me. Because that would mean I am scum, and I know that I am not scum. LOGIC Anyway, if you want us to believe your breadcrumbing on Cora you need to hard claim cop at this point. Fine. I'm the cop and I checked cora last night. He came back clean. It explains my views on the Doc/JK situation (I forgot about there being both cuz THERE CAN"T BE) and it explains my 180 on cora (who I thought was scummy day 1 and night 1, before I received the results) Happy? now scum have me as an easy target tonight. If this is true, I'm sorry if this seems cold but I'm fine with trading a blue role for 50% of a scum team. I have less than an hour to re-read your filter and check if what you say makes sense, but I'll do it.
I'm happy with trading me for scum too. Which is why I'm willing to claim to save any chance of a cora lynch, even though its warbaby with FULLY HALF THE VOTES and as such I don't think he can be overtaken without glurio swapping.
My only issue is that warbaby could actually flip cop right now.
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EBWOP warbaby could actually flip medic right now
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On January 31 2013 09:19 warbaby wrote: Slayalot is the only acceptable alternative, IMO.
I can't switch or else scum gets hammer vote sorry. Get zare/you/acid on slay and I'll accept that lynch today.
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I am not in control of acid, or zare. I have a very strong town read on zare due to the fact that I am actually medic and did actually save him (most likely), so I am backing him.
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EBWOP: *might* accept that lynch today
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On January 31 2013 09:20 Sn0_Man wrote: EBWOP warbaby could actually flip medic right now
OK, so given the setup we know we can trust your check if you are cop. If you are cop and warbaby is medic that means both Cora and Zare are innocented.
Who is left, then? Slayalot/cakepie?
So much for the low chances of both scum being lurkers :/
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What do you guys think of as the better alternative, glurio or slayalot?
I was willing to get behind warbaby's vote on glurio, but things moved too quickly. (Basis: voting patterns)
In any case I am not willing to be on either the cora or warbaby wagons.
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Given the setup, the fact that no one counter claimed medic and Sn0_Man's breadcrumbs which go back to early day2, I feel the only safe vote is now Slayalot.
##Unvote: cDgCorazon ##Vote: Slayalot
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Could be glurio too but I still think he is just "lost town" aka not really much use at the game.
I wanted to call cakepie scum but you are zare's actions look far too much like a scum wagon (one of you and warbaby are the scumteam that makes sense, you and zare actually makes none cuz why save warbaby? I was wrong a few posts ago)
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I don't buy lurking scum. Scum need to make some effort to read the thread, in which case they are going to have a few things they want to say. Scum will probably assume they can be careful enough not to make a slip, and say these things.
The other scum style I do buy is doing stupid confusing shit all the time for no reason. Acid~ has stopped doing this, Corazon has not.
Why doesn't cora just vote for me? Even if I flip medic you guys will get information out of it.
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##Unvote: cDgCorazon ##Vote: Slayalot
Sorry Zare, we need to leave Cora for D3. And I'm actually willing to buy town Sn0_man. Cop I dunno, but town... yeah OK.
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The lack of a medic counter-claim is actually baffling me right now. Warbaby has played so poorly... :|
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##Vote: Slayalot
I can get behind this.
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Half an hour to lynch guys.
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On January 31 2013 09:26 warbaby wrote: I don't buy lurking scum. Scum need to make some effort to read the thread, in which case they are going to have a few things they want to say. Scum will probably assume they can be careful enough not to make a slip, and say these things.
The other scum style I do buy is doing stupid confusing shit all the time for no reason. Acid~ has stopped doing this, Corazon has not.
Why doesn't cora just vote for me? Even if I flip medic you guys will get information out of it.
The thing is, Sn0_Man is playing almost exactly like in XXXV where he was town, and his actions make sense: he jumped on Corazon day1 then started defending him day2 which is consistent with a cop check. This setup only allows sane cops and no framers or gf so an innocent check is 100% proof.
So, the only way I can buy Corazon as scum now is if Sno is also scum and I don't buy it.
Remember, lurking scum always has a good excuse ready in advance. Slayalot's airtight "alibi" is exactly what makes me suspicious of him.
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Additionally, how big is this "anything but warbaby" wagon right now? first cora, then it gets crushed by my cop claim and now its immediately thrown on slay?
I get that he is an uncontested medic claim, but the way he claimed even looked scummy.
I mean, if zare votes slay it becomes 4-4 right?
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On January 31 2013 09:21 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 09:19 warbaby wrote: Slayalot is the only acceptable alternative, IMO. I can't switch or else scum gets hammer vote sorry. Get zare/you/acid on slay and I'll accept that lynch today.
Vote slayalot right now, or explain yourself.
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On January 31 2013 09:30 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 09:26 warbaby wrote: I don't buy lurking scum. Scum need to make some effort to read the thread, in which case they are going to have a few things they want to say. Scum will probably assume they can be careful enough not to make a slip, and say these things.
The other scum style I do buy is doing stupid confusing shit all the time for no reason. Acid~ has stopped doing this, Corazon has not.
Why doesn't cora just vote for me? Even if I flip medic you guys will get information out of it. The thing is, Sn0_Man is playing almost exactly like in XXXV where he was town, and his actions make sense: he jumped on Corazon day1 then started defending him day2 which is consistent with a cop check. This setup only allows sane cops and no framers or gf so an innocent check is 100% proof. So, the only way I can buy Corazon as scum now is if Sno is also scum and I don't buy it. Remember, lurking scum always has a good excuse ready in advance. Slayalot's airtight "alibi" is exactly what makes me suspicious of him.
Holy shit acid is back to thinking like last game
Where was this acid all game?
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right, we'd have to convince one of you guys on the warbaby wagon to move. It'll have to Sn0 or Cora.
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On January 31 2013 09:31 Sn0_Man wrote: Additionally, how big is this "anything but warbaby" wagon right now? first cora, then it gets crushed by my cop claim and now its immediately thrown on slay?
I get that he is an uncontested medic claim, but the way he claimed even looked scummy.
I mean, if zare votes slay it becomes 4-4 right?
4-4 but I believe first name to gather the votes "wins" the tie so Slay doesn't get slain unless you switch.
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On January 31 2013 09:31 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 09:21 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 31 2013 09:19 warbaby wrote: Slayalot is the only acceptable alternative, IMO. I can't switch or else scum gets hammer vote sorry. Get zare/you/acid on slay and I'll accept that lynch today. Vote slayalot right now, or explain yourself.
A) zare is still on cora
B): On January 31 2013 09:22 Sn0_Man wrote:EBWOP: *might* accept that lynch today
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On January 31 2013 09:32 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 09:30 Acid~ wrote:On January 31 2013 09:26 warbaby wrote: I don't buy lurking scum. Scum need to make some effort to read the thread, in which case they are going to have a few things they want to say. Scum will probably assume they can be careful enough not to make a slip, and say these things.
The other scum style I do buy is doing stupid confusing shit all the time for no reason. Acid~ has stopped doing this, Corazon has not.
Why doesn't cora just vote for me? Even if I flip medic you guys will get information out of it. The thing is, Sn0_Man is playing almost exactly like in XXXV where he was town, and his actions make sense: he jumped on Corazon day1 then started defending him day2 which is consistent with a cop check. This setup only allows sane cops and no framers or gf so an innocent check is 100% proof. So, the only way I can buy Corazon as scum now is if Sno is also scum and I don't buy it. Remember, lurking scum always has a good excuse ready in advance. Slayalot's airtight "alibi" is exactly what makes me suspicious of him. Holy shit acid is back to thinking like last game Where was this acid all game?
In the editing room T__T
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On January 31 2013 09:34 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 09:32 Sn0_Man wrote:On January 31 2013 09:30 Acid~ wrote:On January 31 2013 09:26 warbaby wrote: I don't buy lurking scum. Scum need to make some effort to read the thread, in which case they are going to have a few things they want to say. Scum will probably assume they can be careful enough not to make a slip, and say these things.
The other scum style I do buy is doing stupid confusing shit all the time for no reason. Acid~ has stopped doing this, Corazon has not.
Why doesn't cora just vote for me? Even if I flip medic you guys will get information out of it. The thing is, Sn0_Man is playing almost exactly like in XXXV where he was town, and his actions make sense: he jumped on Corazon day1 then started defending him day2 which is consistent with a cop check. This setup only allows sane cops and no framers or gf so an innocent check is 100% proof. So, the only way I can buy Corazon as scum now is if Sno is also scum and I don't buy it. Remember, lurking scum always has a good excuse ready in advance. Slayalot's airtight "alibi" is exactly what makes me suspicious of him. Holy shit acid is back to thinking like last game Where was this acid all game? In the editing room T__T
Rofl
Well you were playing enough different previously that I was (and sorta am) willing to consider you as scum so I'm glad your back.
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Finally an excuse from Acid~ I actually believe.
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Is there any way that scum could know there's no cop, and thus be able to claim cop?
I don't have time to check the breadcrumbs, but think about this: There is no setup with a cop, a JKer, and a medic.
Scum now know there's a medic, they MIGHT know there's a JKer if one of them was JK'd. But it would have been in their interest to claim it earlier, right?
Just something worth thinking about. Meanwhile, I don't have time to check the breadcrumbs and will have to go on his word, and the fact that nobody has claimed JK or been JK'd that we know of, and assume Sno_Man is telling the truth here.
##Unvote: cDgCorazon ##Vote: Slayalot
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On January 31 2013 09:32 cakepie wrote: right, we'd have to convince one of you guys on the warbaby wagon to move. It'll have to Sn0 or Cora.
Yeah only I bet cora is scared as shit right now and won't move. Could be wrong.
I probably die tonight so I really need to get scum, which is my problem with a lurker lynch at this point.
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Sn0, Cora, and Slayalot can't all be scum, and if Sn0 is telling the truth, but Sn0 and Cora are town. So that would mean that the second scum is already on Slayalot or somewhere else. We need a vote post.
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If Corazon will unvote acid, I'll stop accusing him of doing stupid confusing shit. He accused me of doing stupid confusing shit for voting Acid~, which I probably was. But now he's doing the same thing, and won't back down. That's just weird.
I don't actually care who Cora votes for, but someone other than Acid~ would be nice.
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If I was scum I'd be all over an easy bandwagon like cora, as opposed to sticking this hard to my guns on warbaby.
I still don't see how slay's voting says scum, and since you fuckers made me claim as cop I need to do as much as I can while I'm alive.
I admit the lack of Doctor counter-claim bothers me.
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I just realized that scum could have known that there is no medic. If they were JK'd, preventing the kill, and somebody else role-checked snoman to know that there's a cop, they would have known that there's no medic, allowing warbaby to claim medic.
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On January 31 2013 09:38 zarepath wrote: I just realized that scum could have known that there is no medic. If they were JK'd, preventing the kill, and somebody else role-checked snoman to know that there's a cop, they would have known that there's no medic, allowing warbaby to claim medic.
Yeah but then JK could claim now to kill scum because he knows who scum was (town would have announced the RB that saved them)
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Sorry, that all assumes that we have a JKer, and I think they would have claimed by now.
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Sn0 will you consider switching off warbaby?
If you are indeed cop we can get more use out of you one more night if warbaby can protect you. And if you are not protected, then warbaby is lying = confirmed scum to be lynched D3, as opposed to the current uncertain situation.
A chance that warbaby is not lying and we get another cop read, is better than no chance at all -- you WILL be killed if you are telling the truth, and unprotected tonight
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On January 31 2013 09:37 warbaby wrote: If Corazon will unvote acid, I'll stop accusing him of doing stupid confusing shit. He accused me of doing stupid confusing shit for voting Acid~, which I probably was. But now he's doing the same thing, and won't back down. That's just weird.
I don't actually care who Cora votes for, but someone other than Acid~ would be nice.
Pretty sure cora is on you right now
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Sorry guys. I just can't bring myself to believe warbabys claim.
I do think sn0 tells the truth though. He was always town in my mind. So i stick with my guts and my read on warbaby.
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Can we get a votecount post please?
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On January 31 2013 09:40 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 09:37 warbaby wrote: If Corazon will unvote acid, I'll stop accusing him of doing stupid confusing shit. He accused me of doing stupid confusing shit for voting Acid~, which I probably was. But now he's doing the same thing, and won't back down. That's just weird.
I don't actually care who Cora votes for, but someone other than Acid~ would be nice. Pretty sure cora is on you right now
Yeah, you're right. I missed that.
Thanks for posting, glurio. I'd still like to know who you think the other scum could be.
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On January 31 2013 09:40 glurio wrote: Sorry guys. I just can't bring myself to believe warbabys claim.
I do think sn0 tells the truth though. He was always town in my mind. So i stick with my guts and my read on warbaby.
I've thought through this. There's no way that mafia could claim medic and know there's no medic unless they were JK'd, and nobody has claimed JK, and nobody has claimed being JK'd. AND they would have had to role-check Sno-Man.
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Always thought its you and cora, but that isn't likely now. So probably you and slay or cake. Zare might be but i don't know. He's stepping up his game in day2.
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It doesn't add up. Sorry, it really doesn't.
At this point, I honestly think it is more likely that scum DIDN'T KILL night one in order to view how town reacted than it is that the bus that is being flung around is entirely town and that scum are somehow sticking to their guns on the warbaby mislynch. That just isn't a scum thing to do.
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Sn0_man, just do the right thing. If I'm really doc I'll die tonight. If I'm not, you'll die tonight (if you're not scum).
You can lynch me tomorrow if i'm still alive.
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Sn0_man, And if you don't die tonight, then I'm doc, you get a free town read on care, and town still has cop alive. Think how awesome that will be. For the low low cost of Slayalot.
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EBWOP: a free town read on care
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Sn0, you're looking for the most implausible explanations for a simple situation.
I think you're all barking up the wrong trees based on perceived poor play, aggressive play, WIFOM, and some OMGUS.
You switching off warbaby is guaranteed to be a nett positive outcome: either we catch warbaby lying if he fails to protect you tonight, or we get more use out of your cop pr.
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On January 31 2013 09:53 cakepie wrote: Sn0, you're looking for the most implausible explanations for a simple situation.
I think you're all barking up the wrong trees based on perceived poor play, aggressive play, WIFOM, and some OMGUS.
You switching off warbaby is guaranteed to be a nett positive outcome: either we catch warbaby lying if he fails to protect you tonight, or we get more use out of your cop pr.
Or scum didn't kill night 1 and then somehow we see warbaby as this unlynchable doc when he is scum?
Still you tempt me. LAST MINUTE DECISIONS FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU
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On January 31 2013 09:40 cakepie wrote: Sn0 will you consider switching off warbaby?
If you are indeed cop we can get more use out of you one more night if warbaby can protect you. And if you are not protected, then warbaby is lying = confirmed scum to be lynched D3, as opposed to the current uncertain situation.
A chance that warbaby is not lying and we get another cop read, is better than no chance at all -- you WILL be killed if you are telling the truth, and unprotected tonight
I want to support this line of action, adding that Sno should check Warb tonight to make sure that scum doesn't pull a no-kill to falsely innocent warbaby.
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I want to lynch warbaby not check him
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On January 31 2013 09:55 Sn0_Man wrote: Or scum didn't kill night 1 and then somehow we see warbaby as this unlynchable doc when he is scum?
How likely is that? It'd have to be either really ballsy scum, or completely absent and not playing scum. I don't think so.
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On January 31 2013 09:55 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 09:40 cakepie wrote: Sn0 will you consider switching off warbaby?
If you are indeed cop we can get more use out of you one more night if warbaby can protect you. And if you are not protected, then warbaby is lying = confirmed scum to be lynched D3, as opposed to the current uncertain situation.
A chance that warbaby is not lying and we get another cop read, is better than no chance at all -- you WILL be killed if you are telling the truth, and unprotected tonight I want to support this line of action, adding that Sno should check Warb tonight to make sure that scum doesn't pull a no-kill to falsely innocent warbaby.
Just do it snoman.
The obvious outcome is me being killed tomorrow, if you check me and i'm not doctor.
If you don't do this and i flip doc it will make you look like scum.
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Seriously, if both sn0 and warbaby are telling the truth, then we win simply by not mislynching warbaby. If we mislynch warbaby and then lose sn0, we'd be fighting an uphill battle with only 2 confirmed town in zare and cora
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I'm not worried about looking like scum. I don't see how this wagon can possibly not be scum-run, thats all.
However, slayalot is an acceptable lurker lynch if our certainty is low on warbaby. The fact that there are also at least 2 town on the "lynch slayalot" is pretty convincing.
My problem is that if warbaby is scum, then this gambit of his gets a free kill on me and slayalot at no cost (hes dead anyways). Pretty awkward
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It's baffling that one role claim wants to lynch the other role claim
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Sn0 I want to believe you are cop, but if you don't switch I can only view your play as anti town.
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KILL ME TOMORROW THEN, JESUS
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FINE I GIVE UP THIS IS BULLSHIT ##Unvote Warbaby ##Vote: Slayalot
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I know how you feel, but play Pascal's wager on this.
If war is scum and you lynch him, you probably die tonight. If war is scum and you save him, you die tonight and we lynch him tomorrow. If war is medic and you lynch him, we lose medic and cop If war is medic and you save him, he dies tonight but we save you. Adding that if war is medic and you are cop, you know zare and cora are innocent and you can check glurio
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I don't even know if my vote counts. Our hosts (whom I appreciate very much) haven't been all that attentive
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Well, the time on your post is 10:00. that counts, right?
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K I have supper (already postponed it for the deadline) I'lll be back to see flips in like half an hour. I STILL DONT KNOW IF MY VOTE COUNTS its at 10:00 fml
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From OP:
Time Cycle: This game will follow a 48 hour day/24 hour night cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark (that is any votes after 17:00 MST (-07:00)) will not count. Currently the deadline is 18:00 MST (-07:00), but that may be subject to change. Actions/votes will be accepted up to the posted time, but not after. (17:59 MST (-07:00) is fine but not 18:00 MST (-07:00)).
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On January 15 2013 05:34 Stutters695 wrote: Actions/votes will be accepted up to the posted time, but not after. (00:59 GMT (+00:00) is fine but not 01:00 GMT (+00:00)).
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Sn0_man
Why.
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On January 31 2013 10:04 warbaby wrote:Sn0_man Why.
We shall see if it counts. FWIW I honestly wanted to swap in time but I guess I didn't type it fast enough.
No point posting until the hosts do the night 2 post though.
Kinda disappointed to see that nothing has happened in the 20 mins I was away
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The reason I haven't been speaking, as I said (I think it got lost in the argument) is that I had to go to work. I'm sneaking a quick message across.
The suspense really is killing me though :/
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On January 31 2013 10:23 Sn0_Man wrote:We shall see if it counts. FWIW I honestly wanted to swap in time but I guess I didn't type it fast enough. No point posting until the hosts do the night 2 post though. Kinda disappointed to see that nothing has happened in the 20 mins I was away
Yeah, if I get lynched I won't hold it against you. It's just a game
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sorry guys, really high ups showed up at work today, been busy as shit. No talking until I get the night post up please.
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Night 2
Warbaby, the town medic has been lynched. It is now night 2, you have approximately 23 hours to the deadline. Please send any pms to both myself and marv.
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GG everyone. Had fun! Will probably obs a few games before playing again, though
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gg warbaby. I regret not getting in here in time to save you.
Alright guys, N2 could be interesting -- does mafia kill the confirmed town (Zare) or the cop claim (Sn0) ? Both should prepare a will for just before daypost.
@Sn0 assuming you are telling the truth, do not waste N2 check in vain -- you might actually survive the night. You get to pick from four players, 50/50 chance of hitting scum, significantly better odds if you pick intelligently.
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o_o
I don't even know anymore.
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I know you all love list posts, so here it is:
cDgCorazon: TOWN - conditional on Sn0_Man actually being cop
cakepie: so far the vote and general attitude have me leaning TOWN
Slayalot: this is not about lurking anymore, but deliberate inactivity and refusal to participate in the scumhunt. SCUM
Sn0_Man: If he is scum, then he attacked Corazon d1 with the intention of proving him innocent d2, but Corazon wasn't under any scrutiny d1 apart from Sn0... plus the breadcrumbing early in the day... it doesn't make sense to me. Also, he switched off warbaby at the end and there is no way to tell if the precise last minute posting was intentional or not. Still, I noticed something but I'm not sure I want to talk about it yet. There is definitely a possible scenario where the scum team is Sn0_Man+Corazon but it requires no one to counterclaim cop which is a 50/50 gamble on their part. Tough call but... when in doubt refer to the simplest explanation, so: TOWN
zarepath: playing about the same as in XXXV where he was town. N1 results + warbaby's claim make him a pretty strong TOWN read.
glurio: Refused to switch off warbaby, general inactivity + there's no one else = SCUM
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On January 31 2013 11:50 Acid~ wrote: Sn0_Man: [...] plus the breadcrumbing early in the day... [...]
Where is this breadcrumb? I must have missed it.
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If there is a JK, they NEED to role claim. It means that Sn0_Man was lying.
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On January 31 2013 11:58 zarepath wrote: If there is a JK, they NEED to role claim. It means that Sn0_Man was lying.
Plus JK's N1 target who failed to report being blocked.
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Glurio looks scummiest right now -- I have no idea why Cora and Sn0 parked their votes thusly, but Glurio isn't "confirmed town" by Sn0's uncontested cop claim.
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On January 31 2013 11:55 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 11:50 Acid~ wrote: Sn0_Man: [...] plus the breadcrumbing early in the day... [...]
Where is this breadcrumb? I must have missed it.
First one, earliest:
On January 31 2013 00:18 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 23:53 zarepath wrote:
He condemns Acid so severely for tunneling WB -- in fact, it's the core of his case on him. But I don't see a cohesive scum case or clear direction in Corazon's play, or even a modicum of contemplation, or for seeking relevant new information. Corazon looks scummy to me. Pro Tip: We aren't lynching Cora today.
Second one:
On January 31 2013 07:02 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 06:57 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm not switching because I know that if he flips doc I'm going to get called out on it. You guys do a great job of twisting my words. I'm sticking to my guns. If WB flips scum, just know that I put pressure on him too.
If anyone has been listening to anything I say besides what they use to twist my words, it's a tough call. Both have been playing really terrible games. I just feel like Acid's is just a bit worse at this point still.
Just as he called out WB, this is his contribution to the scum hunt: | |
(The space in between the lines is his contribution.) I have a plenty strong town read on you, don't worry about your own image, nail the scum. If he turns out doctor its me and acid who screwed up. Voting acid when he clearly won't get lynched today is not helping town. All you do is make the scum votes more powerful by throwing yours away.
Third one:
On January 31 2013 07:54 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 07:49 warbaby wrote: Lurker 1: cakpie. His single post was probably more useful than all of the contributions of, Lurker 2: Slay
We need to get rid of these clowns before we can properly scumhunt. I am most comfortable at this point lynching a lurker. Warbaby can't properly scumhunt until we kill the last 2 lurkers, yet from day 1 he was self-proclaimed "scumhunting" and anybody who questioned him was clearly scum-loving. Can we PLEASE kill Warbaby? @Acid: are you seriously voting cora? o_o where did everything go so wrong... Cora is *not* scum.
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On January 31 2013 12:03 zarepath wrote: Glurio looks scummiest right now -- I have no idea why Cora and Sn0 parked their votes thusly, but Glurio isn't "confirmed town" by Sn0's uncontested cop claim.
Wait, did I miss something? Who claimed glurio was confirmed town?
Cora is confirmed town *if* Sn0_Man is cop. You played with us in XXXV, what is your read on Sn0_Man?
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On January 31 2013 12:15 Acid~ wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2013 11:55 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 11:50 Acid~ wrote: Sn0_Man: [...] plus the breadcrumbing early in the day... [...]
Where is this breadcrumb? I must have missed it. First one, earliest: On January 31 2013 00:18 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 23:53 zarepath wrote:
He condemns Acid so severely for tunneling WB -- in fact, it's the core of his case on him. But I don't see a cohesive scum case or clear direction in Corazon's play, or even a modicum of contemplation, or for seeking relevant new information. Corazon looks scummy to me. Pro Tip: We aren't lynching Cora today. Second one: On January 31 2013 07:02 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 06:57 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm not switching because I know that if he flips doc I'm going to get called out on it. You guys do a great job of twisting my words. I'm sticking to my guns. If WB flips scum, just know that I put pressure on him too.
If anyone has been listening to anything I say besides what they use to twist my words, it's a tough call. Both have been playing really terrible games. I just feel like Acid's is just a bit worse at this point still.
Just as he called out WB, this is his contribution to the scum hunt: | |
(The space in between the lines is his contribution.) I have a plenty strong town read on you, don't worry about your own image, nail the scum. If he turns out doctor its me and acid who screwed up. Voting acid when he clearly won't get lynched today is not helping town. All you do is make the scum votes more powerful by throwing yours away. Third one: On January 31 2013 07:54 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 07:49 warbaby wrote: Lurker 1: cakpie. His single post was probably more useful than all of the contributions of, Lurker 2: Slay
We need to get rid of these clowns before we can properly scumhunt. I am most comfortable at this point lynching a lurker. Warbaby can't properly scumhunt until we kill the last 2 lurkers, yet from day 1 he was self-proclaimed "scumhunting" and anybody who questioned him was clearly scum-loving. Can we PLEASE kill Warbaby? @Acid: are you seriously voting cora? o_o where did everything go so wrong... Cora is *not* scum.
Oh, those, I'd noted them already, but I don't really count those as breadcrumbs -- I thought you meant Sn0 used steganography in N1 to indicate his intended action.
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Is it kosher to post an encrypted message and supply the key for decoding later on?
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Why Warbaby Got Lynched
I'm sorry Zare, but this post of yours disturbs me.
On January 31 2013 12:03 zarepath wrote: Glurio looks scummiest right now -- I have no idea why Cora and Sn0 parked their votes thusly, but Glurio isn't "confirmed town" by Sn0's uncontested cop claim.
I'm going to explain this below, but I'm going to announce the point I'm trying to make before I provide the evidence:
Zarepath is the reason that Warbaby was lynched
While Zarepath obviously was not the direct cause of Warbaby, but his case was so stupid and full of WIFOM that I basically had to make an association case between the two to vote for WB. Remember, I was all for voting on Acid and sticking to my vote. I said multiple times that I thought Warbaby is bad town. And guess what? I was right!
Let's take a look at Zare's case (I've put it in a spoiler to save space):
+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2013 08:23 zarepath wrote: CORAZON IS SCUM
##Vote cDgCorazon
If warbaby is telling the truth, and we have no counterclaim to say otherwise, I was set to be lynched N1. What happened N1? I made a case on Corazon.
What happened afterwards? corazon made a post defending himself from my read but also going out of his way to say that I was a good town and doing good work. Medic sees that and thinks, "Oh, Corazon likes zarepath; he must not be mafia."
Day 2. I assumed all of his posturing with warbaby was to make warbaby look like a bad town so we wouldn't lynch him -- in reality, it was to get him riled up so that we would lynch him but he would look like he was in the right to only consider him bad town.
He goes out of his way to say "We have wasted our day going between warbaby and Acid," he always talks about how it's ONLY between those two (nice for mafia planning for us to have to choose between two townies). Corazon has looked scummy, but now that I truly bleieve warbaby is telling the truth, Corazon looks VERY scummy.
Basically, this case is all speculation and WIFOM. He believes that because I thought he was being a good town, I decided to kill him. He goes on to say that I cause Warbaby to think that Zarepath was a good town target.
The first problem is here. If I am scum and secretly thought that Zarepath was a good town, I would not have said it out loud. He's basically saying that I was trying to attack the doctor to attack Zarepath, and then attack Zarepath. That is such a stupid strategy that there's no way it could have worked. He's assuming I'm bad scum, which is absolutely stupid.
He goes on to say that I was trying to get everyone to lynch Warbaby. If that was so, why did I not vote for WB over Acid in the first place? It's just more speculation and confirmation bias.
The reason that this was the reason that WB died was because if Zare hadn't made such a pathetic case on me, I wouldn't have been forced to make a case with massive amounts of WIFOM to vote for WB. I had to make a move to save myself. If Zare had used his brain and known that his case was confirmation bias and WIFOM and had no logical base, I wouldn't have had to vote for WB to defend myself.
The fact that you're trying to push the blame of the lynch on someone else is ridiculously scummy. Zare you are indirectly (and I'm using the loosest possible meaning of "indirectly") responsible for WB's death. Don't put it on me or anyone else. It's time you owned up for your actions.
For the rest of you, you should've called out the WIFOM in the case. Sn0 was the only one who managed to do so. You guys need to analyze these cases and make better decisions based on them.
Zare, you had a good case going there until you decided to use WIFOM and confirmation bias to try to get me to be lynched. WB's blood is on your hands, and you need to make up for it.
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On January 31 2013 14:05 cDgCorazon wrote: The fact that you're trying to push the blame of the lynch on someone else is ridiculously scummy. Zare you are indirectly (and I'm using the loosest possible meaning of "indirectly") responsible for WB's death. Don't put it on me or anyone else. It's time you owned up for your actions.
And you, the hammer vote on warbaby, are trying to blame Zare for the mislynch, because
On January 31 2013 14:05 cDgCorazon wrote: but his case was so stupid and full of WIFOM that I basically had to make an association case between the two to vote for WB.
Are you fucking serious? You are blaming someone else's bad case for your poor judgement?
Go back to NMM33 and look at the lessons learned for town -- you'll see that making association cases before flips are a really really bad idea. (Chrom, Mocsta) Maybe you didn't pay attention because you were scum back then.
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Are you accusing zarepath of being scum or not? If you're not, your post has no purpose.
If you are, you need to explain how he can be scum despite being confirmed town by warbaby's flip (warbaby says he protected him N1, we had no kill N1 and your theory of scum skipping the kill doesn't hold up after war's flip since it relies on war being scum).
Also, zare didn't vote for warbaby, he voted for you and then switched to Slayalot to consolidate with town. How is that scummy, in light of the flip? His action actually almost saved warbaby, which is not something scum would do.
You're making no sense, AGAIN.
I'm sorry but no one forced you to vote for warbaby in the first place and I don't see anyone accusing you of sealing warbaby's fate anyway.
The reason that this was the reason that WB died was because if Zare hadn't made such a pathetic case on me, I wouldn't have been forced to make a case with massive amounts of WIFOM to vote for WB. I had to make a move to save myself.
This is so scummy it makes me sick. Your vote is your own responsibility. You don't vote to save yourself, you vote to lynch SCUM.
A post like this really gives me a hard-on for my sno/cora scum team theory.
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Well desperate times call for desperate measures. I didn't want to die, so I had to make a case equally as stupid as Zare's in order to not die. You all refused to call out his case like I did. That, along with Warbaby's vote, forced my hand. Had Zare not made such a bad case and Warbaby signed onto it (I needed only one more vote to be lynched), I would've stuck with Acid (which everyone told me to consolidate my vote and jump on WB).
I'm pretty sure XXXIII meant not making associated cases based on information from flips.
In the heat of the moment, it looked like scum making a new wagon to take pressure off of one of them. If you thought it was such a bad case, more of you should have called him out on the bad case. I wasn't sure if I was going to get lynched, and I had to leave in 15 minutes. I did whatever I could to save myself.
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I love how cake just told me to not make association cases, and you just said "cora/sno scum team".
I want to hear Zare's response to this before I decide if he's scum or not. You know, giving people a chance to defend themselves...
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On January 31 2013 14:24 cDgCorazon wrote: Well desperate times call for desperate measures. I didn't want to die, so I had to make a case equally as stupid as Zare's in order to not die.
Seriously, this is your argument? You'll do anything not to die? As VT, which is your claim, your vote is your most precious power. Wasting it is treason to town.
I did whatever I could to save myself.
QED.
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On January 31 2013 14:24 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm pretty sure XXXIII meant not making associated cases based on information from flips.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 31 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2012 09:52 Chromatically wrote: So Hapa, tell me again: should I make association cases before the lynch? Nope! Haha, glad you learned something from our PM's. A couple of townies were trying to put together scumteams, and I think that's a pretty faulty way of playing. Your job is to lynch the scummiest player, and then make the associations. Association cases can catch really straighforward scum plans, but against any decent scumteam, such cases are worthless. For example, I just finished a game (Witchcraft Mafia) where two scum members spent most of the game double-bussing each other. On December 31 2012 10:01 Dandel Ion wrote: Lists and association cases are the evil we try to erase during the newbie games.
They are the metascum of new players.
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On January 31 2013 14:05 cDgCorazon wrote: For the rest of you, you should've called out the WIFOM in the case. Sn0 was the only one who managed to do so. You guys need to analyze these cases and make better decisions based on them.
In case it isn't clear, I thought the cases behind both wagons were weak sauce built upon too much WIFOM and OMGUS:
On January 31 2013 09:53 cakepie wrote: I think you're all barking up the wrong trees based on perceived poor play, aggressive play, WIFOM, and some OMGUS.
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On January 31 2013 14:26 cDgCorazon wrote: I love how cake just told me to not make association cases, and you just said "cora/sno scum team".
I want to hear Zare's response to this before I decide if he's scum or not. You know, giving people a chance to defend themselves...
Apparently, OMGUS is not the only mafia terminology you're not familiar with. Association before flip means accusing B of being scum because you think A is scum. The reason you don't vote like this is because if you think A is scum in the first place, then you should vote for A (it's implied that your scum read on A is based on evidence, obviously).
This is not what I'm doing. I'm not sure of either of you or sno's alignment. All I know is that with the way both of you have played so far:
If you are scum then Sn0 is 100% scum. If you are town, then Sn0 is null If Sn0 is town, then you are 100% town. If Sn0 is scum, then you are null
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I left right when the wagon on me was growing. I wasn't sure if it was going to be me dead or not. I knew that lynching me was going be useless, and if I didn't defend myself I would've been lynched for sure. None of you looked at this post:
On January 31 2013 08:29 cDgCorazon wrote: Zare, did you even think that scum could have taken that same thing into account and attacked you to paint me in a bad light? Imagine if you had died and flipped town. Someone else would have made the same connection as you and I would have been lynched without a doubt.
I truly think that WB is bad town, and that Acid is scum. I've laid out all of my cards on the table.
I hate to set off the WIFOM bombs, but Zare was the one who forced me to.
As I told Acid, I did not set up the WB v Acid lynch decision. I was trying to prevent it. It's their stubbornness that has caused this to be the focus of D2. It was nothing by my doing.
It's also funny how you made a case against me 90 minutes before the lynch deadline, and only used information stemming from 12 hours ago and earlier. Pretty amazing.
Perhaps if you all took me seriously and listened to me, stopping misquoting me or twisting my words, perhaps I would've not done some ridiculously stupid. Zare's case was good enough for WB (any wagon besides his was good enough) to sheep with him and make me panic. Had Zare not made a case, WB would not have sheeped, and I wouldn't have panicked and OMGUSed.
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Again, you're the only one responsible for your own vote and "doing anything not to die" is not the way to play a town game. Stop playing the victim and do some actual scumhunting.
Again, Zare is confirmed town now that we know warbaby was telling the truth, so get off his case and find a real scum to lynch for tomorrow.
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On January 31 2013 14:42 Acid~ wrote: Again, you're the only one responsible for your own vote and "doing anything not to die" is not the way to play a town game. Stop playing the victim and do some actual scumhunting.
Again, Zare is confirmed town now that we know warbaby was telling the truth, so get off his case and find a real scum to lynch for tomorrow.
I'm pretty sure I've done more scumhunting than you have. You've been sitting on your butt for 100% of D1 and 98% of D2.
I wasn't going to let Zare get away with blaming me for WB's death. That's why I made the rebuttal.
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On January 31 2013 14:44 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:42 Acid~ wrote: Again, you're the only one responsible for your own vote and "doing anything not to die" is not the way to play a town game. Stop playing the victim and do some actual scumhunting.
Again, Zare is confirmed town now that we know warbaby was telling the truth, so get off his case and find a real scum to lynch for tomorrow. I'm pretty sure I've done more scumhunting than you have. You've been sitting on your butt for 100% of D1 and 98% of D2. I wasn't going to let Zare get away with blaming me for WB's death. That's why I made the rebuttal.
Day 1 or day 2 are in the past and you won't pull me into another shit-flinging fest.
This is night 3 and right now at this moment in time I'm the one doing the hunting, so start contributing.
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EBWOP: right now is night 2, I think.
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On January 31 2013 14:42 Acid~ wrote: Again, Zare is confirmed town now that we know warbaby was telling the truth Well, not exactly, seeing as Zare himself raised this:
On January 31 2013 11:58 zarepath wrote: If there is a JK, they NEED to role claim. It means that Sn0_Man was lying.
On January 31 2013 12:00 cakepie wrote: Plus JK's N1 target who failed to report being blocked. Of course, a JK is quite implausible at this point given what has happened.
A JK roleclaim at this juncture would need to: - justify not claiming on D2 in response to the presence of two other roleclaims (wait-and-see, perhaps? but such a player should have pounced upon Sn0 immediately after warbaby's flip) - provide a plausible N1 action
The implications of a true JK roleclaim are that: - Sn0 is lying about being a cop - someone did not declare that they were roleblocked N1. - zare is not confirmed town, as N1 no kill could have been due to JK and not doc
We of course also have to consider that the JK claim could be a fake claim as part of a gambit by scum to discredit Sn0, and by association, Cora (although logically speaking, null). It would be an incredibly risky move.
For the record, acid, cora, zare and myself have posted without claiming JK.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On January 31 2013 12:34 cakepie wrote: Is it kosher to post an encrypted message and supply the key for decoding later on?
No, don't do this.
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The reason I am so concerned about there being a JK is how incredibly scummy Sn0 and Cora would look without the uncontested cop claim. I don't understand why Corazon would claim that I made him mislynch a claimed medic and consider me the first target after D2, but not the other two people who voted for the claimed medic that aren't confirmed by the cop.
How is glurio not the number one scum read at this point, assuming Sn0/Cora are town? Especially if you ARE Cora, you should assume that the other two people voting for the claimed medic and refusing to switch were scum-motivated. Especially considering that the medic already stole one kill from scum, then they can get a free cop at night... why wouldn't they ensure the medic kill?
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On January 31 2013 14:44 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:42 Acid~ wrote: Again, you're the only one responsible for your own vote and "doing anything not to die" is not the way to play a town game. Stop playing the victim and do some actual scumhunting.
Again, Zare is confirmed town now that we know warbaby was telling the truth, so get off his case and find a real scum to lynch for tomorrow. I'm pretty sure I've done more scumhunting than you have. You've been sitting on your butt for 100% of D1 and 98% of D2. I wasn't going to let Zare get away with blaming me for WB's death. That's why I made the rebuttal.
When did I blame you for WB's death? You certainly have to take some blame for it, of course. But I don't see it as a scum tell because you're cop-confirmed.
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On January 31 2013 14:05 cDgCorazon wrote:I'm sorry Zare, but this post of yours disturbs me. Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 12:03 zarepath wrote: Glurio looks scummiest right now -- I have no idea why Cora and Sn0 parked their votes thusly, but Glurio isn't "confirmed town" by Sn0's uncontested cop claim.
I'm referring to how Cora and Sn0 are "confirmed town" by Sn0's uncontested cop claim, but Glurio ISN'T. I am still not entirely certain about Sn0's cop claim, but if you assume its truth, then Glurio looks the scummiest. It's pretty straightforward.
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I didn't mean for it to be a "Zare is scum" move. I wanted it to be a wake up call for you.
I'm really busy today guys, but I already drafted up some thoughts. Idk the chances of me dying tonight (probably low), but I don't want to risk anything. You'll hear my thoughts about 2 and a half hours before the deadline.
I don't think you should assume Sn0's cop claim is true until everyone has posted and we get no claims of being roleblocked or counter-claims (which should not come until D3 if you're going to counter-claim).
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There are currently 7 living players:
Zare Cake Sn0 Acid Cora Slay Glurio
Of these, 3 are confirmed town: Me, Cora, Zare (as awkward as that is).
Then, Slayalot can *only* be scum if glurio also is (since him being scum means the whole wagon on him was town I assume).
Then we have Cake/Glurio (who have minimal contributions to their names) and Acid, whose play was awful right up to ~2hours to lynch yesterday, when he completely changed.
The history of those 4 players, their interactions etc is what I will be reviewing today.
Keep in mind that at 7 survivors, 6 after NK tonight, 5 after lynch tomorrow, 4 after NK tomorrow, we MUST get a scum in that time or else they win. The only other option is to vote no-lynch tomorrow to reduce it to 5 after 2 NKs but that is only marginally helpful, since It isn't hard to determine the 5 survivors (only 1 will be me/cora/zare, our confirmed town, anyway).
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On January 31 2013 14:05 cDgCorazon wrote: Basically, this case is all speculation and WIFOM. He believes that because I thought he was being a good town, I decided to kill him. He goes on to say that I cause Warbaby to think that Zarepath was a good town target.
The first problem is here. If I am scum and secretly thought that Zarepath was a good town, I would not have said it out loud. He's basically saying that I was trying to attack the doctor to attack Zarepath, and then attack Zarepath. That is such a stupid strategy that there's no way it could have worked. He's assuming I'm bad scum, which is absolutely stupid.
He goes on to say that I was trying to get everyone to lynch Warbaby. If that was so, why did I not vote for WB over Acid in the first place? It's just more speculation and confirmation bias.
Others have addressed the oddity of your focus, but I will address your concerns.
I did not believe that because you thought I was being good town, you decided to kill me. My case was that after FAILING to kill me, you went out of your way to soft town read me so that whoever saved me would not think you're scum.
I wasn't saying that you were trying to attack the doctor to attack me; I was saying that scum would always want to attack the doctor to attack ANYONE. It's not about me; it's about what I think scum would do.
If scum wanted everyone to mislynch a medic, it would be better for them to not be the first person to vote for them. Ideally, for scum, they bring up the idea and everyone else votes for it, and they manage to avoid all responsibility for the mislynch. This is how I read your interactions with warbaby -- riling him up, mocking him, but then claiming he's bad town but still not objecting strongly when others wanted to lynch him.
I can understand how my points may have come off differently in the chaos of last night -- I was typing with my son on my lap and didn't really present much nuance or structure to my arguments. But I think you've misconceived my arguments and wanted to set it straight.
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On February 01 2013 00:25 Sn0_Man wrote: Of these, 3 are confirmed town: Me, Cora, Zare (as awkward as that is).
Good list, but bear with me for a second -- what awkwardness do you mean?
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On February 01 2013 00:31 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 00:25 Sn0_Man wrote: Of these, 3 are confirmed town: Me, Cora, Zare (as awkward as that is).
Good list, but bear with me for a second -- what awkwardness do you mean?
Most of my confirmed town list spent the last lynch spewing hate and vitriol at each other...
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On February 01 2013 00:35 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 00:31 zarepath wrote:On February 01 2013 00:25 Sn0_Man wrote: Of these, 3 are confirmed town: Me, Cora, Zare (as awkward as that is).
Good list, but bear with me for a second -- what awkwardness do you mean? Most of my confirmed town list spent the last lynch spewing hate and vitriol at each other... Plus you and cora still hate each other rofl.
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Basically, its now up to Cakepie, Slay and Glurio to step up and contribute or else we are stuck with just a shot in the dark at them/acid. Which is 50/50 odds, but I don't like 50/50 odds. I wanna nail scum.
The worst part of this is how badly we have botched what is IMO the strongest possible town setup. (Currently I'm mad at cora for playing so scummy I had to save his ass plus he is so scummy it makes my claim look dubious... T_T)
After poking through filters, Slay says nothing (duh), Glurio says nothing (even less than I thought he did, actually), and Cakepie is pretty new.
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Start with the people who voted to kill the medic, obviously. We have votes to analyze, not just filters.
Glurio and Slay seem like the most obvious places to start. Cakepie voted for Slay, so if we vote for Slay and he flips scum, we've cleared cakepie. If we vote for Slay and he flips town, then Glurio looks more scummy for being the only unconfirmed town who voted for warbaby.
I think lynching Slay is the best way to go at it.
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On February 01 2013 01:02 zarepath wrote: Start with the people who voted to kill the medic, obviously. We have votes to analyze, not just filters.
Glurio and Slay seem like the most obvious places to start. Cakepie voted for Slay, so if we vote for Slay and he flips scum, we've cleared cakepie. If we vote for Slay and he flips town, then Glurio looks more scummy for being the only unconfirmed town who voted for warbaby.
I think lynching Slay is the best way to go at it.
You are convinced acid can't be scum?
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Guys, don't automatically assume that scum will kill the cop claim and leave us with two confirmed townies.
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Nope, but I think there had to have been scum voting for the confirmed medic. Why not start there? Acid was voting against lynching the medic and tried to persuade you away from it. Doesn't seem too scummy.
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To clarify my question above:
If I were scum, I'd avoid having my name associated with the medic lynch. No need to lynch the medic (once he has claimed) since you can just NK him instead from safety. The only reason to lynch the medic is for convenience, but if I were scum I'd rather not blow my cover by swapping votes or casting a hammer vote. This, of course, is assuming both horses in the race were town. If Slay was scum, then obviously they are on the "vote anybody but slay" plan once he becomes a candidate.
The primary reason for this is, well, exactly what you just posted. Everybody who voted the medic is suspect, so avoid suspicion at all costs. The difficult part, then becomes making your vote LOOK sensible. Slay did this by voting somebody who town was on, then going completely AFK. Glurio actually justified himself based on me (ouch). Cakepie believed the medic claim (which I guess in hindsight I should have as well) so he voted "the other train". Acid was on some crazy "anything but warbaby" lynch mob, but obviously he was in the right in this case.
I admit, that keeps slay looking pretty scummy. I'd still like more content from Cake/Glurio/Slay if possible to look at.
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On February 01 2013 01:22 cakepie wrote: Guys, don't automatically assume that scum will kill the cop claim and leave us with two confirmed townies.
I'm playing based off of that assumption. If it changes then I'll be around to change my play, but if it doesn't then my play is justified right now.
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On January 31 2013 09:24 cakepie wrote: What do you guys think of as the better alternative, glurio or slayalot?
I was willing to get behind warbaby's vote on glurio, but things moved too quickly. (Basis: voting patterns)
In any case I am not willing to be on either the cora or warbaby wagons.
This post occured shortly after my cop claim. I'd like to highlight it. At this point there were (I think, since we didn't have any votecounts) 4 on warbaby, 3 on Cora, 1 on Slay. Or something similar. Actually, Cakepie may have not voted at all, leaving it at 4-3 at that stage. Either way, I'd like to point out that right about here is where a scum would have done something like "OMFG LOOK AT DAT WARBABY SCUMMY AS HELL LETS VOTE HIM". Not being willing to be on a wagon is very townie. Scum are generally desperate for easy wagons to park their vote on, especially when warbaby and cora are both town.
This actually narrows it down to (IMO) 3 possible scum candidates right now: Acid, Glurio and Slay.
Now, if Slay is mafia, then so must be glurio (otherwise the votes make no sense, why would acid lynch a scumbuddy when he could totally have hammered WB with ease?.
If slay is NOT mafia, then acid and glurio are the scumteam. EITHER WAY, GLURIO IS SCUM.
As far as I'm concerned, Glurio is scum.
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Okay maybe the read on cakepie is a little strong to base on just 1 post, but I thought that post was very indicative of his overall play.
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On February 01 2013 01:02 zarepath wrote: Start with the people who voted to kill the medic, obviously. We have votes to analyze, not just filters.
Glurio and Slay seem like the most obvious places to start. Cakepie voted for Slay, so if we vote for Slay and he flips scum, we've cleared cakepie. If we vote for Slay and he flips town, then Glurio looks more scummy for being the only unconfirmed town who voted for warbaby.
I think lynching Slay is the best way to go at it.
If we mislynch tomorrow, we lose.
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Wow damn, i'm sorry warbaby. I really thought he was scummy as hell, all his playing didn't make any sense to me.
Right now i've see the situation like this: Either cake and slay or sn0 with slay/cora/cake are the scum.
What favors team lurker in my opinion is: no kill in the N1, so both lurkers really didn't send an action in. Also slays play in the beginning was scummy as hell. (Always points out he's noob town, who wants to be recognised as noob? No one will listen, it just doesn't make sense in my eyes.) Cake conveniently became active just before the D2 Lynch. Seeing his, mostly inactive, scum buddy parked on the claimed medic. So he tried to get him lynched earning him a ton of town cred. Either way he would win.
Now what i believe is more likely: sn0 is scum. Gambling with claiming cop and just one minute to late to unvote, what a shame! Could have unvoted 5 minutes earlier if u wanted, you were here the whole time. You were the one who actually convinced me to keep my vote on warbaby with your whole "i don't wanna check him i wanna see him die." You didn't unvote, so i didn't. Thought the whole game you were right. Then while warbaby claimed, confusing everybody with "the real doctor shouldn't claim blahblah" and then went to "please claim real doctor" all the while after the claim staying on warbaby with your vote. This would either work out with cora, his supposedely N1 target who could be either town or scum who's just in this whole charade or one of the lurkers. Who also parked his vote on warbaby and left to go do "work", but has time 20 minutes after the lynch to sneak in a message? Just before the lynch i'm sure there wasn't time to unvote.
For me sn0 right now is clearly scum.
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On February 01 2013 01:26 Sn0_Man wrote: If I were scum, I'd avoid having my name associated with the medic lynch. No need to lynch the medic (once he has claimed) since you can just NK him instead from safety. The only reason to lynch the medic is for convenience, but if I were scum I'd rather not blow my cover by swapping votes or casting a hammer vote.
Except why not? Warbaby managed to alienate himself vs so many people that the free medic lynch would look really safe and tempting. Many players already had a poor assessment of warbaby, it was precisely the fact that he looked set to be under then gun that led to him softclaiming, and then being forced to hard claim. - Acid was engaged in a mutual tunnel fest with warbaby - Corazon had serious issues with warbaby (and acid) getting too embroiled with one another and not helping look elsewhere - Acid, zare, sn0 already voting warbaby before the claim - glurio had cast slight suspicion on the basis of warbaby D1 voteswitching
Scum was foiled N1 and did not get a kill in. Why not ensure the death of the medic and free up the night kill for hunting another blue role, or offing players who are the greatest threat, coming too close to finding scum?
It's all WIFOM.
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On February 01 2013 01:28 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 01:22 cakepie wrote: Guys, don't automatically assume that scum will kill the cop claim and leave us with two confirmed townies. I'm playing based off of that assumption. If it changes then I'll be around to change my play, but if it doesn't then my play is justified right now.
No, you need to consider both possibilities. At 4-2 it will be a MYLO on D3. It is in fact completely plausible for scum to aim for zero confirmed townies by killing Zare, keeping both you (Sn0) and Cora in the game, trying to discredit you based on D2 play and voting, and playing for the mislynch. On the other hand, Sn0 flipping cop with the nightkill gives us two confirmed townies at 4-2 MYLO.
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Will be busy with work until 1h before end of night. For now, I leave two important thoughts:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I reiterate that Zare and Sn0 really need to post a predawn will; most likely one of you will die tonight.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Let me share with you my most important observation, coming into the game as a fresh replacement, without the emotional investment of D1, N1, and early-to-mid D2, and speaking as an outsider reading all of that while catching up to the thread.
Look at who among you are willing to come out and make controversial statements and possibly offend people. And look at who is simply content to safely cast weak suspicions all over the place without commitment, sheep opinions that are already expressed by other players, and wagon their vote without justification.
The nature of D1, with the lack of any information, is that any "scumhunting" is going to be a crapshoot, relying on very weak evidence. There will often necessarily be plenty of WIFOM. (This holds true extending into D2 in this game, given how useless D1 was.) This is not unexpected.
The problem with what happened subsequently, is that defenses and counteroffensives became a huge pile of OMGUS, and WIFOM upon WIFOM, spiraling out of control. And everyone got entangled into this messy web.
A lot of arguments were built upon: - "this is a terrible case, hence X is scum" - "this is scum trying to save himself" - "this is scum trying to save a scumbuddy"
But: - Weak cases are a necessary evil in the early game. Bad cases at this point should be null at best, and perhaps even contribute a town lean for effort. - why can't a townie want to save himself ? - why can't a townie want to save someone that they have a good reason to believe is town?
There are equally valid townie explanations for many of the actions that we've seen, but the focus has been placed far too greatly upon trying to find any reason at all to cast someone as scummy.
Take a moment, and remember: It's a newbie game. Now, it is not my intent to offer a free noob-pass to anyone, but I find it troubling that plays that are easily explained by hypothesis of inexperienced town and inexperienced blue are instead cast in the light of convoluted, gutsy expert scum conspiracies and gambits.
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This is my perspective, from a position where I remain as detached as I can from the shit-flinging (especially early D2). We are at MYLO, and I see my task now as very simple: find the scummiest player, and lynch them. This mantra, which I learned from my last game, is the only thing I can do now, and indeed the only thing any townie can do now. If we do it right, then we continue the hunt. If we do this wrong, we lose. I'm not being defeatist, I'm just being a realist -- this is the situation we find ourselves in.
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On February 01 2013 03:00 glurio wrote: Either cake and slay or sn0 with slay/cora/cake are the scum.
Hmm, thats four out of seven people. Wow. And if Zare dies tonight to eliminate the almost-confirmed townie who also happens to be possibly quite threatening with his play, that's four out of six!
On February 01 2013 03:00 glurio wrote: What favors team lurker in my opinion is: no kill in the N1, so both lurkers really didn't send an action in. Also slays play in the beginning was scummy as hell. (Always points out he's noob town, who wants to be recognised as noob? No one will listen, it just doesn't make sense in my eyes.) Cake conveniently became active just before the D2 Lynch. Seeing his, mostly inactive, scum buddy parked on the claimed medic. So he tried to get him lynched earning him a ton of town cred. Either way he would win.
Again with the implausible no nightaction assumption + association case without flip. Or trying to build an association case before flip so you can point to it as reason lynch me after you bus Slayalot with the rest of us? After all, he took quite a bit of heat toward the end of D2 and nearly got lynched instead of warbaby.
On February 01 2013 03:00 glurio wrote: Now what i believe is more likely: sn0 is scum. Gambling with claiming cop and just one minute to late to unvote, what a shame! Could have unvoted 5 minutes earlier if u wanted, you were here the whole time.
WIFOM. There are equally good town and scum explanations for what happened. nuff said.
On February 01 2013 03:00 glurio wrote: You were the one who actually convinced me to keep my vote on warbaby with your whole "i don't wanna check him i wanna see him die." You didn't unvote, so i didn't. Thought the whole game you were right. Then while warbaby claimed, confusing everybody with "the real doctor shouldn't claim blahblah" and then went to "please claim real doctor" all the while after the claim staying on warbaby with your vote.
Another guy shifting responsibility. What is it with all you guys, can't take responsibility for your votes?
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On February 01 2013 04:10 cakepie wrote:What is it with all you guys, can't take responsibility for your votes?
I'm happy to take responsibility for my vote. I tried to switch last minute but in hindsight I'm not sure I should have tried. Sure, I regret the medic is dead but town FINALLY has some clarity here. If we lynch slayalot (and he wasn't scum) then unless warbaby is NK'd there is still a bunch of confusion in town (IMO).
Now its easy. Glurio is scum, since there are 4 candidates, cake is clean, and Acid/Slay is not a scumteam that makes sense.
Also, I wish to point out Glurio's hilarious 180 OMGUS on me. Admittedly, I 180'd on him but my read was fairly baseless.
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There is nothing hilarious about it. You turned out to be scum. Your bullshit cop gamble seems to have paid off. So whoever you “check“ tonight will turn out red followed by another orchestrated mislynch by you. You and whoever is your scumteam will win.
Already said the double lurker no-action scenario is the unlikely one cake. I'll try to narrow my candidates down tomorrow. Don't have time today last exam tomorrow wanna sleep early. So i'm off for the night.
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Well at least you are posting, now that the spotlight is turning to you. A very noticable difference from the rest of the game. I feel like I hit a nerve here.
You might need to figure out a way to explain my votes yesterday before you call me scum though.
IF I'm scum, I have 1 (one) scumbuddy. Who is that? First off, I go WAY out of my way to save Corazon (and in the process commit near-suicide if there is a counter-cop claim). So my scumbuddy would be Corazon then right? Okay, so then why do I resist the swap over to slayalot so hard? Scum are happy to swap horses in a 2-town race.
Hell, If I'm scum, I take the deal offered me where medic protects me tonight and I (obviously) kill medic with night action (as expected no matter who scum is) and then its down to 6 only I now have this invincible cop claim and *can't* lose. The only way I don't do that is if Slay is my scumbuddy, but then I don't cop claim to save Cora 2 hours earlier.
It's bullshit glurio, but I applaud your ability to step up your game. I hadn't expected it of you, but doing it now is a bit of a giveaway that you are feeling threatened as scum. Your entire defense up until now was that... you were incapable of making arguments like this rofl.
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After the craziness of D2, I want to get my thoughts in before the night lynch deadline. I’m actually writing this about 5 hours after the lynch, but I have a very busy day lined up tomorrow (today as this is being posted), and I would not have time to get anything in before the deadline unless I wrote it now.
Sn0- Although he has been defending me most of the game, I’m suspicious of him. His scum hunting hasn’t been very good so far. He did more of a mediating role in D2 rather than actually scumhunting. He jumped on the WB wagon while it was in full swing. In addition, his last minute vote switch so “badly timed” from Warbaby has me very suspicious about him. It sounds like a ploy to gain town favor by simply making a mistake that he did not want the doctor to be lynched. If you think about, it’s a good way for scum to get away with the mislynch of one of the most key blue roles the town has. If someone tries to say that he really meant to vote Warbaby off, he could say that he meant to switch, but just did it a tad too late. Of course, no one knows his intentions but himself. The cop claim is also a bit sketchy. Although a lot more well done than Warbaby, it still has yet to be put up against any real pressure. Anyone could have claimed cop and said that I am town. All they needed to do was not have a counter-claim. If Sn0 survives the night, I would be ridiculously suspicious about him. Why would the mafia not take a chance and get a free blue kill after the town killed off the other blue? It’s too tempting of a proposition to pass up.
Acid- I’m still waiting to see a bit more scumhunting from Acid. I’ve already said a bunch of stuff about him. One thing I would like to add however, is now that Warbaby has been flipped: Acid was tunneling the Doctor until about 90 minutes left in D2. It’s just the facts. If he picks up on the promising start on N2, it will go a long way to change my opinion on him.
Slayalot- Needs to post more. He’s even admitted to just lurking and not posting enough. He should have known before signing up that this game requires a huge amount of effort and attention. I believe he’s just saying all of that because claiming scum isn’t a very good excuse for not posting.
Glurio- Mostly the same problems, and his posts have not been very good.
Cakepie- Same problem, except he has a legitimate excuse that he made in the beginning of the game before he even was replaced in.
Zare is obviously decently confirmed town based off of WB’s flip. However, his case making needs to revert back to the decent cases he was making before the god awful one where he voted me. He shouldn’t also be trying to divert too much blame away for the Wb lynch from himself, although it’s not 100% on him. If he’s town, he should be playing like town and admit he made a bad case, not spreading the blame on others.
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Glurio is scum. He contributes *nothing* then insta-pipes up as soon as it becomes clear he might be in suspicion and starts bringing out the big analysis and shit. Thats scummy, last I checked. I mean, he never even made "I have no time" excuses he just straight up lurked for free, and I gave him a free pass as a dumbass. Now he feels the need to take control and make the big reads?
Plus I already showed how it has to be him by logic.
Also, I didn't defend you most of the game. Only since the beginning of Day 2 when I got my check back on u. Look before that.
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Well Day 2 comprises most of the game because D1 was a bigger penis competition between Acid and WB and we voted a lurker.
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On February 01 2013 07:42 cDgCorazon wrote: Well Day 2 comprises most of the game because D1 was a bigger penis competition between Acid and WB and we voted a lurker.
K say I'm scum. Why do I cop claim to save you?
Rofl. Clearly that isn't the case, since YOU know you are town.
Now, a cop claim WOULD be safe if the scum role-cop found a JK, but we have already established that the utter lack of JK in this game makes that impossible (plus I'm cop, so we can't have a JK).
I wish people would think these things through. Warbaby died to give clarity to this game guys... don't toss that away.
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Deadline is in less than an hour, yes?
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On February 01 2013 09:05 zarepath wrote: Deadline is in less than an hour, yes?
Yeah.
In case it isn't clear, my "last will" is that
a) cora and zare are both confirmed town, and cakepie is not far behind
b) as a result of A, glurio is scum
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On February 01 2013 07:27 cDgCorazon wrote: Sn0- [...] Why would the mafia not take a chance and get a free blue kill after the town killed off the other blue? It’s too tempting of a proposition to pass up.
Because D3 is a 4-2 MYLO. Right now, Zare almost confirmed town, and you, Cora, are NOT confirmed. Killing Sn0 and flipping the cop gives us two 100% confirmed townies in 4-2 MYLO. It's completely plausible for scum to want to avoid that in favor of something more likely to give them the mislynch thay they need.
Whereas, by killing Zare, there are actually ZERO confirmed townies, and scum can simply aim for a chaos play capitalizing on remaining doubts about Sn0 (and yourself), throwing suspicion around two or three targets looking for a mislynch. Confirming townies will not help scum, whereas keeping someone who is controversial alive may be a worthwhile gamble -- Sn0's cop claim is clearly not universally believed, and so even if he gets a useful check tonight, not everyone is going to believe it at face value. (a JK claim might even be used in a gambit to cause confusion.)
Remember: all it takes is one stubborn misguided townie and two scum votes to lock in a mislynch.
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On February 01 2013 09:11 Sn0_Man wrote: In case it isn't clear, my "last will" is that
a) cora and zare are both confirmed town, and cakepie is not far behind
b) as a result of A, glurio is scum
A bit more closer to the deadline, please?
Also please declare your night action target at XX:59:50 with justification for your choice. This will help if you actually survive.
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Night action:
I'm checking acid because he's the loose cannon. Glurio *is* scum, acid is unknown, along with slay.
I feel like a cleared acid is very powerful, and if hes scum then gg.
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If Sn0_Man is not killed, I really suggest that you look at his filter, and the thread leading up to his cop claim. He only cop claimed after Cora was under a lot of attack and Acid is the one who suggested that he was breadcrumbing and cop claiming before he actually cop claimed -- and his earlier posts make it seem as though he didn't know the setup blue possibilities despite bieng cop. His breadcrumbs aren't entirely justified.
And his late post seems SUPER scummy. The thing is, I can totally see and understand a scum team realizing that if they don't do something, they're pretty much done for, and they ahve to take the 1-in-3 chance (closer to 1-in-2 because there was no evidence of a JK) to cop claim. It wasn't really meditated; Acid kind of just forced him into it (incidentally), and it was worth the risk.
It's possible you should no-lynch tomorrow so you have the time to MAKE Sn0 either make two reads, or be lynched again by scum and still be in a good spot.
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Zare: 100% confirmed town unless there is some really convoluted JK claim. Solid effort, not afraid to make cases and
Sn0_Man: There is no way a scum Sn0 could safely claim cop when he did. I don't think we're looking at some complicated and daring scum gambit. This is more likely to be a true, goodwill attempt to prevent a Corazon mislynch. Also, any argument based on his failed late D2 vote switch is WIFOM and I will not accept it as strong evidence. He was at least considering and agonizing about the various possibilities presented.
Corazon: Plays based on trying to foster discussion, trying to break up the pointless penis contest, and the mutual tunneling by Acid and warbaby. Unfortunately did not succeed in convincing people that he brought anything useful to the table himself, thus looks hypocritical. Buckled under pressure, but that is null in the newbie context. Right now, really needs to take off tinfoil hat for a moment.
Acid: Got entangled in shit flinging with warbaby, then went WIFOM/OMGUS on Corazon. But not afraid to take a stance. Also, quickly saw the logical merits of not voting warbaby regardless of the truth of the doc claim. D1 was an issue, but has stepped things up late D2.
Glurio: Never committed to a clear stance independently, although posts when prompted or questioned. Casts suspicions widely, but solidifies only on "safe", "fashion-of-the-moment" options votes, delivering just-before-hammer voting on both days. Did not entertain other possibilities, without any consideration at all, instead sheeping Sn0 to not move his vote.
Slayalot: (out of time typing -- similar to glurio)
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On February 01 2013 04:00 cakepie wrote: Look at who among you are willing to come out and make controversial statements and possibly offend people. And look at who is simply content to safely cast weak suspicions all over the place without commitment, sheep opinions that are already expressed by other players, and wagon their vote without justification.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
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Day 3
Zarepath, the Vanilla Townie, has been shot!
It is now Day 3. You have 48 hours before the lynch.
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GEEEEEEEEE GEEEEEEEEEE
Thanks for the craziness, have fun, and good luck!
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GG zare!
Let's have that cop check result.
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On February 01 2013 07:27 cDgCorazon wrote: After the craziness of D2, I want to get my thoughts in before the night lynch deadline. I’m actually writing this about 5 hours after the lynch, but I have a very busy day lined up tomorrow (today as this is being posted), and I would not have time to get anything in before the deadline unless I wrote it now.
Sn0- Although he has been defending me most of the game, I’m suspicious of him. His scum hunting hasn’t been very good so far. He did more of a mediating role in D2 rather than actually scumhunting. He jumped on the WB wagon while it was in full swing. In addition, his last minute vote switch so “badly timed” from Warbaby has me very suspicious about him. It sounds like a ploy to gain town favor by simply making a mistake that he did not want the doctor to be lynched. If you think about, it’s a good way for scum to get away with the mislynch of one of the most key blue roles the town has. If someone tries to say that he really meant to vote Warbaby off, he could say that he meant to switch, but just did it a tad too late. Of course, no one knows his intentions but himself. The cop claim is also a bit sketchy. Although a lot more well done than Warbaby, it still has yet to be put up against any real pressure. Anyone could have claimed cop and said that I am town. All they needed to do was not have a counter-claim. If Sn0 survives the night, I would be ridiculously suspicious about him. Why would the mafia not take a chance and get a free blue kill after the town killed off the other blue? It’s too tempting of a proposition to pass up.
All together: I am lying about Sn0
Why did I do it? I knew that since there was not been a counter-claim, the chances of Sn0 being a cop were very good. He has the proper read on me. However, if everyone agreed that he was the cop, he would've been killed N2. There's no way that the scum would have killed him if they weren't convinced that he is cop.
If the general consensus is that Sn0 is cop, then the scum would've taken him out immediately. I faked a lack of consensus that Sn0 was cop (and the fact that not everyone was 100% sold on his claim) so that the scum would choose to lynch someone else, and Sn0's all-important check would be allowed to be heard today.
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On February 01 2013 07:27 cDgCorazon wrote: After the craziness of D2, I want to get my thoughts in before the night lynch deadline. I’m actually writing this about 5 hours after the lynch, but I have a very busy day lined up tomorrow (today as this is being posted), and I would not have time to get anything in before the deadline unless I wrote it now.
Sn0- Although he has been defending me most of the game, I’m suspicious of him. [...]
That is such a terrible crumb. There's no system whatsoever to the way you claim to hide the message. Do you realize that it is technically possible to take any arbitrary, sufficiently long text, and pull out letters selectively to form almost any message one desires?
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Yeah I know, I had like 20 minutes to do it. My intent was there though. If you believe I am Vanilla Town, then I have nothing to gain by 180-ing on Sn0. I don't bite the hand that feeds until it's pretty obvious it's a scummy hand.
I'll just stick to making cases.
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On February 01 2013 10:00 zarepath wrote: It's possible you should no-lynch tomorrow so you have the time to MAKE Sn0 either make two reads, or be lynched again by scum and still be in a good spot.
What do people think about this? Do you think that if we no-lynch today, scum will have to kill Sn0 with the N3 nightkill?
I feel that:
If Sn0 is really cop, scum would be happy to let him get a check in and kill someone else instead. They can still discredit the hell out of him again on D4, it would be no different from today.
If Sn0 is scum with cop fakeclaim, he'll live through to D4 anyways <-- this possibility enables the WIFOM value above.
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For now, we've already heard from glurio during N2, but Slayalot has not posted in 28 hours. So I'm going to start with this and see where it takes us with regard to my two strongest scumreads.
##Vote: Slayalot ##FoS: glurio
Reason:
On February 01 2013 04:00 cakepie wrote: who is simply content to safely cast weak suspicions all over the place without commitment, sheep opinions that are already expressed by other players, and wagon their vote without justification.
as well as voting patterns
D1 voting + Show Spoiler + 27 21:17 zarepath -> AFKing 28 00:39 warbaby -> SkaPunk 28 03:41 Sn0_Man -> SkaPunk 28 03:59 cDgCorazon -> Abenson 28 05:08 Slayalot -> SkaPunk 28 05:22 glurio -> SkaPunk 28 08:35 warbaby -> Abenson 28 09:37 warbaby -> AFKing 28 09:55 cDgCorazon -> SkaPunk
On a day where the town thing to do is to use your vote as a tool to drive activity ("post stuff or be lynched"), both Slayalot and glurio happily contribute the third and fourth votes on SkaPunk, significantly ahead of the voting deadline, with poor justification. With three inactives in AFK, Ska, and Acid (and the spurious Abenson), there are plenty of targets to spread the votes around on, and pressure for activity. Some people attempted to do this, after a fashion. Slayalot and glurio are among those who did not pressure well, and fired upon safe targets only.
D2 voting + Show Spoiler + As at Slayalot's 31 Jan 07:02 KST vote: 29 10:46 Acid -> warbaby 29 11:02 warbaby -> Acid 29 15:30 warbaby -> -none- 30 02:38 Sn0_Man -> warbaby 30 07:57 cDgCorazon -> Acid 31 00:34 zarepath -> warbaby 31 03:06 warbaby -> Slayalot 31 05:38 glurio -> warbaby 31 06:31 zarepath -> -none- 31 06:37 warbaby -> glurio 31 07:02 Slayalot -> warbaby [...]
warbaby (4): Acid, Sn0, zarepath, glurio, Slayalot
The critical four votes. And then both conveniently disappear, with glurio making only a brief appearance during which he refuses to entertain alternative scenarios, in light of there being both a doc and cop claim.
Slayalot hasn't even been seen since. I want to hear what he has to say, hence the vote on him rather than on glurio. In any case I'll happily lynch either of them.
(Also, more WIFOM for glurio's WIFOM bonfire: you want to cast me as scumbuddies with slayalot, and make a case against me for bussing? HAVE AT IT. You think scum is willing to start a 4-2 MYLO day by initiating the wagon that will bus his scumbuddy? I don't think that idea is very sellable. [ see: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17684181 ])
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Let's see what Sn0's check was before going any further (unless he said who he was checking before).
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On February 01 2013 11:26 cakepie wrote: That is such a terrible crumb. There's no system whatsoever to the way you claim to hide the message. Do you realize that it is technically possible to take any arbitrary, sufficiently long text, and pull out letters selectively to form almost any message one desires? I'm a little teapot. meaningless example, but QED.
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On February 01 2013 11:54 cDgCorazon wrote: Let's see what Sn0's check was before going any further (unless he said who he was checking before).
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On February 01 2013 09:22 cakepie wrote:
Also please declare your night action target at XX:59:50 with justification for your choice. This will help if you actually survive.
On February 01 2013 09:59 Sn0_Man wrote: Night action:
I'm checking acid because he's the loose cannon. Glurio *is* scum, acid is unknown, along with slay.
I feel like a cleared acid is very powerful, and if hes scum then gg.
On February 01 2013 10:08 cakepie wrote: GG zare!
Let's have that cop check result.
On February 01 2013 10:12 Sn0_Man wrote: Town.
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Well I'm not willing to restate the obvious, but if Sn0 is telling the truth, the only possible scum are:
Cakepie Glurio Slayalot
I'm all for lynching either Glurio or Slayalot today. I want to see how both of them play out D3 before making a decision.
I'm really sorry for the shitty N2. I've had a lot of work and school in the past 2 days (basically I've had 3-4 hours of free time in the past 36 hours), and all of the emotion I had to put into D2 really drained me. Unless someone objects, I'm going to take a few hours away from the game to clear my head and start being a good town player, not one who is being inhibitive to the scumhunt.
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In the context of:
On February 01 2013 12:48 cDgCorazon wrote: if Sn0 is telling the truth, the only possible scum are: Cakepie Glurio Slayalot
Clearly, I get to use process of elimination to arrive at two scum, if I were to believe Sn0's cop claim and his two town checks. (Note that at this point, I consider Sn0's claims as admissible circumstantial evidence to be used in conjunction with my reads based on their play and voting, but not necessarily unassailable truth.)
Anyone else subscribing to "Sn0 is telling the truth" needs to justify their choice of two of three possible scum (and by extension, who of three is town).
Corazon will at some point need to explain where he derives the bias against Glurio and Slayalot from. He's almost given me a free pass, a dangerous thing to do at MYLO. + Show Spoiler +On February 01 2013 12:48 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm all for lynching either Glurio or Slayalot today. I want to see how both of them play out D3 before making a decision.
Sn0 uses a town read on me to conclude glurio is scum and to decide to check Acid: + Show Spoiler +On February 01 2013 01:42 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 09:24 cakepie wrote: What do you guys think of as the better alternative, glurio or slayalot?
I was willing to get behind warbaby's vote on glurio, but things moved too quickly. (Basis: voting patterns)
In any case I am not willing to be on either the cora or warbaby wagons. This post occured shortly after my cop claim. I'd like to highlight it. At this point there were (I think, since we didn't have any votecounts) 4 on warbaby, 3 on Cora, 1 on Slay. Or something similar. Actually, Cakepie may have not voted at all, leaving it at 4-3 at that stage. Either way, I'd like to point out that right about here is where a scum would have done something like "OMFG LOOK AT DAT WARBABY SCUMMY AS HELL LETS VOTE HIM". Not being willing to be on a wagon is very townie. Scum are generally desperate for easy wagons to park their vote on, especially when warbaby and cora are both town. This actually narrows it down to (IMO) 3 possible scum candidates right now: Acid, Glurio and Slay. Now, if Slay is mafia, then so must be glurio (otherwise the votes make no sense, why would acid lynch a scumbuddy when he could totally have hammered WB with ease?. If slay is NOT mafia, then acid and glurio are the scumteam. EITHER WAY, GLURIO IS SCUM. As far as I'm concerned, Glurio is scum. He admits it's not ideal basis to make such a strong read: + Show Spoiler +On February 01 2013 01:57 Sn0_Man wrote: Okay maybe the read on cakepie is a little strong to base on just 1 post, but I thought that post was very indicative of his overall play. Without a red cop check, you're going to have to have a much stronger basis than just a read on a single post to eliminate me as possible scum.
Acid gave a list early in N2, but I think that needs to be revisited in the context of new information i.e. zare's flip and sn0's claimed N2 green check. + Show Spoiler +On January 31 2013 11:50 Acid~ wrote: I know you all love list posts, so here it is:
cDgCorazon: TOWN - conditional on Sn0_Man actually being cop
cakepie: so far the vote and general attitude have me leaning TOWN
Slayalot: this is not about lurking anymore, but deliberate inactivity and refusal to participate in the scumhunt. SCUM
Sn0_Man: If he is scum, then he attacked Corazon d1 with the intention of proving him innocent d2, but Corazon wasn't under any scrutiny d1 apart from Sn0... plus the breadcrumbing early in the day... it doesn't make sense to me. Also, he switched off warbaby at the end and there is no way to tell if the precise last minute posting was intentional or not. Still, I noticed something but I'm not sure I want to talk about it yet. There is definitely a possible scenario where the scum team is Sn0_Man+Corazon but it requires no one to counterclaim cop which is a 50/50 gamble on their part. Tough call but... when in doubt refer to the simplest explanation, so: TOWN
zarepath: playing about the same as in XXXV where he was town. N1 results + warbaby's claim make him a pretty strong TOWN read.
glurio: Refused to switch off warbaby, general inactivity + there's no one else = SCUM
glurio and slayalot can obviously also choose to believe Sn0 and then arrive at two scum by eliminating themselves with a town claim. However glurio will have a hard time making a scumteam of Slayalot + myself look plausible on the basis of Sn0's claimed cop checks -- he'd have to pull a 180 of a 180 of his read on Sn0 to get there.
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I'm still trying to decide what to make of Corazon's ridiculous N2 deception plan and the associated crumb: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17687661
I've demonstrated how it the crumb is awful: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17687687 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17687837
Corazon has apologized for bad crumb: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17687707 and bad N2 play: + Show Spoiler +On February 01 2013 12:48 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm really sorry for the shitty N2. I've had a lot of work and school in the past 2 days (basically I've had 3-4 hours of free time in the past 36 hours), and all of the emotion I had to put into D2 really drained me.
It should be clear that lying in a newbie game is generally unacceptable, so such deception play is already terribad on account of that alone. Additionally, the rationale behind the deception is ...questionable...?
On February 01 2013 11:22 cDgCorazon wrote: If the general consensus is that Sn0 is cop, then the scum would've taken him out immediately. I faked a lack of consensus that Sn0 was cop (and the fact that not everyone was 100% sold on his claim) so that the scum would choose to lynch someone else, and Sn0's all-important check would be allowed to be heard today.
Remember, we might have had Sn0 killed N2 giving two confirmed townies. Instead, our current situation is one where we have either: - 2 scum out of 3 candidates if you completely believe Sn0, or - Sn0 is a liar, but his scumbuddy could be almost anybody I am not completely sure which situation would have been better for us.
On top of that, Corazon's little plan opens himself up to attack, provides ammunition for a Sn0-cora scumteam association case, and reopens a D2 can of worms.
I'm also not completely convinced that if there had been no "artificial" suspicions on Sn0 from Corazon, scum would happily killed Sn0 and given us two confirmed townies with Sn0's cop flip on a 4-2 MYLO day.
Lastly, Zarepath ended up being engaged in discussion with Corazon for a little bit due to this. How much of his will is influenced no thanks to being misled by Cora's play? How much of it is what he would have believed without that influence? We'll never know now.
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On February 01 2013 12:48 cDgCorazon wrote:I'm going to take a few hours away from the game to clear my head and start being a good town player, not one who is being inhibitive to the scumhunt.
Have a good night's sleep, come back fresh tomorrow.
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On February 01 2013 11:40 cakepie wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 01 2013 10:00 zarepath wrote: It's possible you should no-lynch tomorrow so you have the time to MAKE Sn0 either make two reads, or be lynched again by scum and still be in a good spot. What do people think about this? Do you think that if we no-lynch today, scum will have to kill Sn0 with the N3 nightkill? I feel that: If Sn0 is really cop, scum would be happy to let him get a check in and kill someone else instead. They can still discredit the hell out of him again on D4, it would be no different from today. If Sn0 is scum with cop fakeclaim, he'll live through to D4 anyways <-- this possibility enables the WIFOM value above. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For now, we've already heard from glurio during N2, but Slayalot has not posted in 28 hours. So I'm going to start with this and see where it takes us with regard to my two strongest scumreads. ##Vote: Slayalot ##FoS: glurio
Reason: On February 01 2013 04:00 cakepie wrote: who is simply content to safely cast weak suspicions all over the place without commitment, sheep opinions that are already expressed by other players, and wagon their vote without justification.
as well as voting patterns D1 voting27 21:17 zarepath -> AFKing 28 00:39 warbaby -> SkaPunk 28 03:41 Sn0_Man -> SkaPunk28 03:59 cDgCorazon -> Abenson 28 05:08 Slayalot -> SkaPunk 28 05:22 glurio -> SkaPunk28 08:35 warbaby -> Abenson 28 09:37 warbaby -> AFKing 28 09:55 cDgCorazon -> SkaPunk D2 votingAs at Slayalot's 31 Jan 07:02 KST vote: 29 10:46 Acid -> warbaby 29 11:02 warbaby -> Acid 29 15:30 warbaby -> -none- 30 02:38 Sn0_Man -> warbaby30 07:57 cDgCorazon -> Acid 31 00:34 zarepath -> warbaby 31 03:06 warbaby -> Slayalot 31 05:38 glurio -> warbaby 31 06:31 zarepath -> -none- 31 06:37 warbaby -> glurio 31 07:02 Slayalot -> warbaby [...] warbaby (4): Acid, Sn0, zarepath, glurio, Slayalot
Look at sn0s voting pattern and don't just cherry pick what fits your agenda.
also
On February 01 2013 04:00 cakepie wrote: who is simply content to safely cast weak suspicions all over the place without commitment, sheep opinions that are already expressed by other players, and wagon their vote without justification.
[/spoiler]
Since N1 i thought warbaby was scum, clearly explained in nearly all my posts. I was the first one to bring up warbabys odd vote pattern D1. That also should explain my vote on D2. I never casted weak suspicion i casted strong one right at warbaby. I also believed sn0s claim and not warbabys. And i clearly commited myself to warbaby.
And why i'm now getting more active? Pretty simple really: i don't want to lose, especially not to some bullshit gamble like sn0s fake claim. If we are led to believe his claim he will easily be able to bring us to another mislynch, like he did with warbaby before. Don't believe Sn0 he is lying scum.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 01 2013 07:02 glurio wrote: There is nothing hilarious about it. You turned out to be scum. Your bullshit cop gamble seems to have paid off. So whoever you “check“ tonight will turn out red followed by another orchestrated mislynch by you. You and whoever is your scumteam will win.
Already said the double lurker no-action scenario is the unlikely one cake. I'll try to narrow my candidates down tomorrow. Don't have time today last exam tomorrow wanna sleep early. So i'm off for the night.
Of course after i called out he couldn't find a red one.
I don't believe a no-lynch is a good option we should just lynch Sn0. If we don't lynch him today he'll just kill one of his town reads who is actually town and we are in the same position with 3-2 instead of 4-2 against Sn0s scum team.
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On February 01 2013 22:03 glurio wrote: I also believed sn0s claim and not warbabys. And i clearly commited myself to warbaby.
And why i'm now getting more active? Pretty simple really: i don't want to lose, especially not to some bullshit gamble like sn0s fake claim. Don't believe Sn0 he is lying scum.
Which one is it Glurio? What made you believe Sn0's claim before and what made you not believe it now?
Any role claim would need to withstand serious fire to be accepted, and I think Sn0's has.
1) Lack of counter-claim (Mafia cop would not want to claim because lynching one of them gets one half of the scum team either killed that day or the next) 2) Lack of a roleblock claim (We've had two night cycles, I don't think anyone would have lied about being RB'd D2. If they were RB'd they would've said it at the beginning of D2, and Sn0 claimed towards end of D2.) 3)His check on me was correct (It's only confirming for me, but it's what solidifies my opinion.
Let's just say Sn0 is indeed Cop (hypothetically). Who else would you suspect of being scum?
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On February 01 2013 11:40 cakepie wrote:
For now, we've already heard from glurio during N2, but Slayalot has not posted in 28 hours. So I'm going to start with this and see where it takes us with regard to my two strongest scumreads.
##Vote: Slayalot ##FoS: glurio
I heard your reason, but would you consider voting for glurio over Slay? The reason being that for the rest of us, Glurio is 100% scum whereas there is some very small amount of uncertainty over slayalot vs you as his scumbuddy.
@cDgCorazon: That "breadcrumb" was straight up awful, but I suppose thanks for the thought? Being alive is nice, although even if I were dead I think you guys have the tools to win at this point.
In other news, check out that big quality post by glurio. Daaaaaamn son, coloured letters for my name and everything! Where was all this the first 2 days/nights of the game? Oh thats right you were in hiding as scum -_-
I love how the excuse for posting now is "I don't want to lose"... Lets be serious. If you didn't want to lose you would post more day 1/day 2 (as town). If it isn't blatantly obvious by now that you are NOT town, then I don't know what gives.
PS: I'm still waiting for anybody to come up with any kind of even remotely comrehendable explanation for my actions being scum.
PPS: I'm willing to listen to more discussion re: a no-lynch today.
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Alright, more on the topic of a no-lynch.
Lets assume a no-lynch happens. Who, then, gets NK'ed? Not me or Cora, because either of those prove me right and therefore prove Glurio/Slay scumteam. Not glurio/slay, because those prove me wrong, aka I'm scum, aka I wouldn't make that lynch (unless cake is somehow scum in which case A: LOL B: him and glurio could NK slay to make me look wrong but all that does is give us info). So the only NK's that make sense from any perspective are acid/cake. Neither of those NK's help town determine whether I am really a cop or lying scum. My check that night could be slay or glurio or cake, it makes little or no difference, because the results come down to: DO YOU BELIEVE ME?
That question is the entirety of this game right now. BTW you is Acid/Cake/Cora. Slay/Glurio obviously won't believe me.
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Hello guys
2 questions
1: Is the "no-lynch" off the table again? (Cause it makes alot of sense. Giving 1 more day to outnumber scum. If I understand correctly)
2: Has Acid been proven town or killed? Or why is no one talking about him?
Since the page 1 isn't updated on "spoiler -flips" I don't konw how many are left. Can this either be updated or someone tell me.
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On February 02 2013 00:51 Slayalot wrote: Hello guys
2 questions
1: Is the "no-lynch" off the table again? (Cause it makes alot of sense. Giving 1 more day to outnumber scum. If I understand correctly)
2: Has Acid been proven town or killed? Or why is no one talking about him?
Since the page 1 isn't updated on "spoiler -flips" I don't konw how many are left. Can this either be updated or someone tell me.
o_o
Acid is alive, and my Cop check on him came back town.
So, Still living is:
Me (Cop) cDgCorazon (Cop checked as town) Acid (Cop checked as town) cakepie glurio Slayalot (you).
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In addition, the flips are/were:
SkaPunk (Died day 1 as Vanilla Town) Warbaby (Died day 2 as Doctor) zarepath (Died night 2 as Vanilla Town)
There was no Night 1 kill as it was (we assume) blocked by warbaby.
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There is no way for me to legally suicide immediately is there? (Obviously getting myself modkilled is cheating by the rules + gets me banned + requires doing something undesirable)
If I could suicide, and my flip would be shown BEFORE LYNCH, I'd do it. However, the fact that it is MYLO means I can't just vote for myself
My flip would prove my cop claim and prove the scumteam fairly conclusively (okay it could still be cakepie over slay but I don't think that would be an issue).
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On February 02 2013 01:20 Sn0_Man wrote: There is no way for me to legally suicide immediately is there?
No.
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On February 02 2013 04:37 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 01:20 Sn0_Man wrote: There is no way for me to legally suicide immediately is there? No.
Alright, thanks. No surprise.
Anyway, this thread is pretty dead atm...
I guess everything that needs saying has been said? Either way...
##Vote: glurio
I'd much rather consolidate on glurio than on slay, because of the very slight chance of a glurio/cake scumteam. Cakepie moving your vote to glurio would help assuage my fears on that.
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Nice try Sn0scum. I'd much rather consolidate on you so you and your scumteam loses.
He killed warbaby, cora. Thats what makes me believe hes the clearest scum in the game. Never thought someone would make such a blatant gamble and actually might get through with it. Sn0 is scum, don't believe him!
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Even his question to the mods is such a joke. It's obvious you're not allowed to suicide, nice way trying to fool us into thinking youre a real cop.
Even asking for no-lynch is stupid. Already explained how sn0 will go on with the cop claiming shit. Next night he'll just kill the actual townie he "checked". "See guys, i was right all along!"
How can you explain your vote history sn0? Killing the town medic? Not even trying to defend yourself. Seems to be scum 101, just ignore every accusation and ramble on about your crazy scumreads.
I have to go to a party now. Will post more tomorrow. Have a good night everyone. Don't believe Sn0. Look at his actions not only what crazy shit he says in this thread.
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Hmm, my vote history is identical to glurio's. Fascinating how incriminating MY vote history is.
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Glurio, if you're so sure about Sn0, why don't you vote him? Not willing to commit your vote on your strongest scumread?
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Glurio, you already know how I feel about the WB lynch. You could've unvoted him too, but you decided not to. His death is just as much your fault as it is Sn0's.
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Guys, I want to emphasize that we cannot simply play today based solely on the reasoning that: "I strongly believe Sno's cop claim and his green checks, therefore we've already solved this game easily". Over reliance on blue powers, and thus slacking off on your own scumhunting, is a poor way to play and will not help you improve.
The cop claim may look strong especially in the absence of a JK claim, but remember, a strong read is still not 100% certainty. Only a dead man's flip is certain. There remains the (admittedly slim) possibility that there is only Doc and no other power role in this game, and Sn0 is simply lying.
@ Cora, Acid: "Sn0 has my alignment correct" should be a null tell. Scum with a cop fakeclaim could also trivially supply correct alignments, because they already know. DO NOT use this as basis to support your belief that he is honest.
I've talked about it before ( here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17689059 ) but I want to reiterate: you are going to have to build more of a case to justify your voting today -- please do not rely too much on the basis of the cop check information.
I'm not saying that I consider Sn0's claim to be a lie -- the claim is fairly strong. It serves as great backing evidence to go with my own reads. But it is not 100% unassailable, so I depend on what I see in the play of glurio and slayalot (although it is more like failure to actually play, in slay's case)
Basically, what I'm trying to get at, is that this statement:
On February 02 2013 00:47 Sn0_Man wrote: DO YOU BELIEVE ME? That question is the entirety of this game right now. BTW you is Acid/Cake/Cora. Slay/Glurio obviously won't believe me. That's not actually true at all. We all need to scumhunt for other supporting evidence against lynch targets, instead of simply banking on strong belief in a cop claim.
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On February 02 2013 04:41 Sn0_Man wrote: I'd much rather consolidate on glurio than on slay, because of the very slight chance of a glurio/cake scumteam. Cakepie moving your vote to glurio would help assuage my fears on that.
Glurio seems to be happy to continue digging his grave for the time being, and I think you'll continue to see that I have no problem with pointing out what's wrong with his play and posting behavior.
Slayalot on the other hand is simply not even playing. He's gone for close to 42 hours, and then when he comes back, is simply content to let others do the playing and thinking for him:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 02 2013 00:51 Slayalot wrote: Hello guys
2 questions
1: Is the "no-lynch" off the table again? (Cause it makes alot of sense. Giving 1 more day to outnumber scum. If I understand correctly)
2: Has Acid been proven town or killed? Or why is no one talking about him?
Since the page 1 isn't updated on "spoiler -flips" I don't konw how many are left. Can this either be updated or someone tell me.
Talking about the no-lynch option clearly demonstrates that he is at least up to date on what is going on, even if it was just a quick skim through and not a thourough read of the thread. There's only like half a dozen posts involving "no-lynch" -- not hard to search and see what people think about it, and do a bit of your own logical thinking. Instead, all he does is post an inane question like "it makes sense to me, did we already rule it out?" without demonstrating any in depth consideration about what a no-lynch would entail (in fact, all that was already discussed quite well.)
And the question about acid is just lazy.
And now he is gone from the thread again.
This is no way for a townie to be playing at 4:2 MYLO. I want to make him post more, so that we have something to work with. Whereas we've already got more from Glurio to pore over. (Yes, this game is so pathetic that I have to play D3 like it's D1.)
So, my vote stays on Slayalot, while I will continue prodding glurio with a strong FoS. I will not shut the door on glurio just yet -- he's got ONE CHANCE to demonstrate that we're wrong about him being scum, and that he is town. As long as we get him to continue posting, that is net positive for town. He can either successfully exonerate himself, or give us more evidence to use against him. So far it's looking more like the latter, though.
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?
If I'm lying about the cop claim, then I'm scum (presumably with cora).
If I'm telling the truth about the cop claim, then Glurio is scum with either slay or cake. Presumably slay.
The game is actually all figured out, but I'm the only person who *knows* I'm cop (except cora has a pretty good idea because I cop-claimed to save him and he knows he's town).
There are no other real explanations. Sure, you can "scumhunt" today to see if you believe me or not, but the entire game is solved one way or the other based on everybody's belief of my cop claim. And since there are 4 town 2 scum, I'd rather get 3 people on glurio ASAP so that 1 misled townie can't make a mislynch happen.
Lastly, glurio said he is off to a party followed by sleep so don't expect posts from him for a while.
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Why I think Sn0's claim is real:
On February 02 2013 00:13 cDgCorazon wrote: 1) Lack of counter-claim (Mafia cop would not want to claim because lynching one of them gets one half of the scum team either killed that day or the next) 2) Lack of a roleblock claim (We've had two night cycles, I don't think anyone would have lied about being RB'd D2. If they were RB'd they would've said it at the beginning of D2, and Sn0 claimed towards end of D2.) 3)His check on me was correct (It's only confirming for me, but it's what solidifies my opinion.
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On February 02 2013 07:31 cDgCorazon wrote:Why I think Sn0's claim is real: Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:13 cDgCorazon wrote: 1) Lack of counter-claim (Mafia cop would not want to claim because lynching one of them gets one half of the scum team either killed that day or the next) 2) Lack of a roleblock claim (We've had two night cycles, I don't think anyone would have lied about being RB'd D2. If they were RB'd they would've said it at the beginning of D2, and Sn0 claimed towards end of D2.) 3)His check on me was correct (It's only confirming for me, but it's what solidifies my opinion.
Those are pretty BS reasons, to be honest.
1) we could have only a medic (it's a possible setup) 2) we could have only a medic (it's a possible setup) 3) I believe the logic is that if I'm scum, so are you. Reason being I cop-claimed for no reason except to save you.
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On February 02 2013 07:24 Sn0_Man wrote: The game is actually all figured out, but I'm the only person who *knows* I'm cop (except cora has a pretty good idea because I cop-claimed to save him and he knows he's town).
There are no other real explanations. Sure, you can "scumhunt" today to see if you believe me or not, but the entire game is solved one way or the other based on everybody's belief of my cop claim. And since there are 4 town 2 scum, I'd rather get 3 people on glurio ASAP so that 1 misled townie can't make a mislynch happen.
We have 26+ hours to work with here. The game may be solved from your perspective, but I don't see why the rest of us should not spend this available time to find other evidence that would help bolster our confidence that it's glurio being scum with his most likely partner being slayalot.
Additionally, like I said already, *I* can narrow it down to glurio and slayalot. The rest of you -- this includes you, Sn0 -- also still have to convince yourselves that the last scum is slayalot rather than me. But slay has given us practically nothing to work with.
Suppose we all sit around and thumb ass, and correctly lynch scum glurio correctly. His scumbuddy does not concede, someone dies N3. We go into D4 at 3-1 MYLO again. Why not use the time right now to generate more activity that can only help us with our analysis, both today in D3 and possibly tomorrow?
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On February 02 2013 07:37 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 07:24 Sn0_Man wrote: The game is actually all figured out, but I'm the only person who *knows* I'm cop (except cora has a pretty good idea because I cop-claimed to save him and he knows he's town).
There are no other real explanations. Sure, you can "scumhunt" today to see if you believe me or not, but the entire game is solved one way or the other based on everybody's belief of my cop claim. And since there are 4 town 2 scum, I'd rather get 3 people on glurio ASAP so that 1 misled townie can't make a mislynch happen. We have 26+ hours to work with here. The game may be solved from your perspective, but I don't see why the rest of us should not spend this available time to find other evidence that would help bolster our confidence that it's glurio being scum with his most likely partner being slayalot. Additionally, like I said already, *I* can narrow it down to glurio and slayalot. The rest of you -- this includes you, Sn0 -- also still have to convince yourselves that the last scum is slayalot rather than me. But slay has given us practically nothing to work with. Suppose we all sit around and thumb ass, and correctly lynch scum glurio correctly. His scumbuddy does not concede, someone dies N3. We go into D4 at 3-1 MYLO again. Why not use the time right now to generate more activity that can only help us with our analysis, both today in D3 and possibly tomorrow?
Either I die in that scenario, or I have a cop check to establish the last scum. Its pretty much the same thing to me, but I guess I'm a bit over-fatalistic here.
As I said previously, I'd like you to vote for glurio asap (YOU TOO CORA) so that we have the first timestamp on a 3-vote, just in case I can't convince the rest of town (acid). Since, while I'd like consensus, at this point really we have a first-to-three gets lynched scenario.
Feel free to keep talking, but I'd like your vote now, not later. And since it is still POSSIBLE for the scumteam to be you and glurio, slayalot really isn't an acceptable lynch for the time being.
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On February 02 2013 07:47 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 07:37 cakepie wrote: Suppose we all sit around and thumb ass, and correctly lynch scum glurio correctly. His scumbuddy does not concede, someone dies N3. We go into D4 at 3-1 MYLO again. Why not use the time right now to generate more activity that can only help us with our analysis, both today in D3 and possibly tomorrow?
Either I die in that scenario, or I have a cop check to establish the last scum. Its pretty much the same thing to me, but I guess I'm a bit over-fatalistic here.
You are completely pragmatic and absolutely correct. Those are precisely the only two sensible options assuming a glurio lynch today flips scum.
The corollary of that, of course, is that I don't need to convince you of anything. If you live, you solve the game using your powers, period. If you die, I need to convince Cora and Acid that I am town. Not you, Sn0. I don't need to worry about what you think. I'm playing for the endgame.
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On February 02 2013 07:47 Sn0_Man wrote: As I said previously, I'd like you to vote for glurio asap (YOU TOO CORA) so that we have the first timestamp on a 3-vote, just in case I can't convince the rest of town (acid). Since, while I'd like consensus, at this point really we have a first-to-three gets lynched scenario.
Why can't you trust Acid more? In your perspective, he is confirmed town. And when I finally got in at the end of D2 and proposed alternative wagon on either glurio or slay, he was the first to act on it, planting the first vote back onto slayalot. He had good clarity of thought under time pressure (<1h to deadline): + Show Spoiler +On January 31 2013 10:00 Acid~ wrote: I know how you feel, but play Pascal's wager on this.
If war is scum and you lynch him, you probably die tonight. If war is scum and you save him, you die tonight and we lynch him tomorrow. If war is medic and you lynch him, we lose medic and cop If war is medic and you save him, he dies tonight but we save you. Adding that if war is medic and you are cop, you know zare and cora are innocent and you can check glurio
I just don't see a town Acid being the one stubborn town that combines with two scum to deliver the required 3 votes to mislynch.
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Sure but you are (more or less) willing to believe I'm cop so I KNOW you and cora are willing to vote with me, for now. Acid hasn't said a word on the topic for a long time.
Whatever. I'd like to see your vote on glurio but I can't force anything to happen.
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On February 02 2013 07:35 Sn0_Man wrote: 3) I believe the logic is that if I'm scum, so are you. Reason being I cop-claimed for no reason except to save you.
Well since I know I am town, I'm certain that you are Cop.
I'm going to vote for Glurio because of all the arguments above (voting history, activity level) and the fact that his arguments aren't good enough to convince me that Sn0 is town (the emotional "Sn0scum" BS is ridiculously suspicious as well).
##Vote: Glurio
A scum flip on Glurio would basically confirm everything about Sn0 and all of the webs interlinking with that (I'll save association cases for after the lynch).
Still waiting on some contribution from Acid and Slay.
I'll also have only 2 hours tomorrow to post and read stuff, so this is basically locking in my vote.
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On February 02 2013 16:11 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 07:35 Sn0_Man wrote: 3) I believe the logic is that if I'm scum, so are you. Reason being I cop-claimed for no reason except to save you. Well since I know I am town, I'm certain that you are Cop.
That's not how logic works. If you are scum, then he is scum. That doesn't imply that if you are town then he is town.
If he was scum he would also know your alignment.
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On February 02 2013 08:31 Sn0_Man wrote: Sure but you are (more or less) willing to believe I'm cop so I KNOW you and cora are willing to vote with me, for now. Acid hasn't said a word on the topic for a long time.
Whatever. I'd like to see your vote on glurio but I can't force anything to happen.
My conundrum still stands. In order to believe your claim I also have to believe Corazon is town. If I had only your play to analyze I could believe your claim, especially uncontested.
Still, glurio managed to make himself look more scummy than Corazon, which is quite an achievement.
##Vote: glurio
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Ok slept well, cooled down. Time to write something.
On February 02 2013 05:21 Sn0_Man wrote: Hmm, my vote history is identical to glurio's. Fascinating how incriminating MY vote history is.
Right. It's just as incriminating as mine or slays, which i thought cakepie should've also highlighted. So i did highlight it in a fitting color.
I narrowed it down to sn0/cora scumteam. Let's now look at some posts of our sadly deceased fellows:
warbaby: + Show Spoiler +On January 31 2013 06:26 warbaby wrote: Glurio's posting is flaccid. He plays like a terrified scum or someone who needs testosterone treatment.
Sn0 plays like a scum trying really hard and doing a decent job.
If cora is scum town is fucked. Watch this guy.
Obviously I think zare is town.
Process of elimination. QED.
Acid is the x factor which lowers the probability of my reads. Oh I do hate him so.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2013 08:29 warbaby wrote: Biggest problem I have with this, is that Cora is the only one I suggested might be playing a good scum game.
If zarepath is scum (which means there is a JK and I did *not* save Zare N1), and he anticipates that town is at least partially swinging in my favor, then this is an easy mislynch for zarepath.
I want to hear others' thoughts on this.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2013 08:41 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 08:33 zarepath wrote: warbaby, I was the first to unvote you (as far as I can tell). I'm also putting myself way out here for Corazon. OK. We still cannot assume scum failed to make an action N1. So I have a 80% town - (some random probability of no N1 action) read on you. This is just barely enough to make me vote with you. That and the fact that Cora's current vote makes no sense to me -- confusion is the tool of scum.But if you're wrong, and cora flips town, then you and I are in some serious shit. I'm probably dying anyway, though, in the night kill. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead! ##Unvote: Slayalot##Vote: cdgCorazon(I'm still interested in LAL on Slay, but since I am basically all-in, I need to trust my town read on zarepath.)
+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2013 08:47 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 06:26 warbaby wrote: If cora is scum town is fucked. Watch this guy.
I really believe this. Cora accuses Acid of being shady, but I feel now it's Cora who is most shady in this game.And shadyness is definitely scummy.
zarepath:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 31 2013 22:57 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 14:05 cDgCorazon wrote:I'm sorry Zare, but this post of yours disturbs me. On January 31 2013 12:03 zarepath wrote: Glurio looks scummiest right now -- I have no idea why Cora and Sn0 parked their votes thusly, but Glurio isn't "confirmed town" by Sn0's uncontested cop claim. I'm referring to how Cora and Sn0 are "confirmed town" by Sn0's uncontested cop claim, but Glurio ISN'T. I am still not entirely certain about Sn0's cop claim, but if you assume its truth, then Glurio looks the scummiest. It's pretty straightforward.
and last his will:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 01 2013 10:00 zarepath wrote: If Sn0_Man is not killed, I really suggest that you look at his filter, and the thread leading up to his cop claim. He only cop claimed after Cora was under a lot of attack and Acid is the one who suggested that he was breadcrumbing and cop claiming before he actually cop claimed -- and his earlier posts make it seem as though he didn't know the setup blue possibilities despite bieng cop. His breadcrumbs aren't entirely justified.
And his late post seems SUPER scummy. The thing is, I can totally see and understand a scum team realizing that if they don't do something, they're pretty much done for, and they ahve to take the 1-in-3 chance (closer to 1-in-2 because there was no evidence of a JK) to cop claim. It wasn't really meditated; Acid kind of just forced him into it (incidentally), and it was worth the risk.
It's possible you should no-lynch tomorrow so you have the time to MAKE Sn0 either make two reads, or be lynched again by scum and still be in a good spot.
So both towns who had a suspicion of sn0/cora scumteam are dead. How convenient. Why would a scumteam not consisting of sn0/cora kill zare instead of the claimed cop? Since it seems like everyone just believes sn0 without doubting him a bit, save cake who i truly believe is town right now.
##Vote: Sn0
I didn't vote before because i wanted some more input on my theory. Yeah might be a mistake i just wanted everyone to read, and respond. Hardly anyone did except sn0/cora who are the accused.
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Nearly forgot this little gem of a scumslip!
On February 02 2013 16:11 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 07:35 Sn0_Man wrote: 3) I believe the logic is that if I'm scum, so are you. Reason being I cop-claimed for no reason except to save you. Well since I know I am town, I'm certain that you are Cop. I'm going to vote for Glurio because of all the arguments above (voting history, activity level) and the fact that his arguments aren't good enough to convince me that Sn0 is town (the emotional "Sn0scum" BS is ridiculously suspicious as well). ##Vote: GlurioA scum flip on Glurio would basically confirm everything about Sn0 and all of the webs interlinking with that (I'll save association cases for after the lynch). Still waiting on some contribution from Acid and Slay. I'll also have only 2 hours tomorrow to post and read stuff, so this is basically locking in my vote.
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Seriously Glurio if you're going to say I'm scum because of one mistype, that definitely means you are scum. There goes any chance of my vote changing.
The flaw in your "Sn0/Cora" scum team is that I'm VT. I've said it at least 5 times...
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On February 03 2013 01:38 cDgCorazon wrote: Seriously Glurio if you're going to say I'm scum because of one mistype, that definitely means you are scum. There goes any chance of my vote changing.
The flaw in your "Sn0/Cora" scum team is that I'm VT. I've said it at least 5 times...
Oh. You said you're VT five times, well that must make it true then.
I'm the president of the USA I'm the president of the USA I'm the president of the USA I'm the president of the USA I'm the president of the USA
White House, here I come!
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Acid, glad you're here. I just woke up, let me get breakfast and we can hopefully have a more meaningful discussion than these other folks have been able to offer me. Please give me your thoughts about corazon's awful deception plan and the other things I've gone over in early D3.
Corazon, you've chosen to ignore everything I've said over the earlier part of D3. You've already used up your quota of noob allowance this game. I will not allow you to continue playing like this. It is anti-town. Even if you are VT, this does not help the rest of town figure out D3, and certainly does not help us if we do get to D4.
BRB once I grab a sammich.
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Fine Cake, I shall rephrase.
He's trying to convince us he is not scum with an argument that, to me, does not compute. How could I possibly vote for Sn0 over him?
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Another thing I would like to point out in Glurio's recent attack:
He makes quotes by Warbaby saying that WB thought I was scum. This is not conclusive evidence at all. Just because the doctor says I'm scum does not mean that I am scum. I attacked Warbaby thinking HE was scum, but he wasn't. Your logic is broken Glurio.
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I want to talk about Corazon.
There's not enough activity from glurio to make a case. Bottom line is, I think glurio's activity is consistent with a lazy townie. It's also consistent with scum. In newbie XXXV, glurio was lazy town and we wasted a vig shot on him.
Corazon on the other hand can't hide behind lazy. In fact the only reason he's alive right now is because of ONE person who believes him to be town. One uncontested cop claim is the only town tell I have on Corazon.
I especially don't like his day 2 voting. He claims he won't back off me until I provide explanations for his absurd accusations, but the he does back off me. Not because I provided satisfactory answers, but because his lynch wasn't getting traction.
He then parks his vote on warbaby and disappears an hour before lynch deadline, conveniently missing the final actions. And what reason does he give for this? He has to go to sleep because he has work. Suddenly my not-good-enough reason for low activity is good enough for him to miss an important vote deadline.
This is just one example of his hypocrisy, I've given others in my d2 case.
Let's forget about Sno's cop claim for now and look only at Corazon. Because:
1. Sno's claim is unverifiable and should be a null read at this point. 2. If Corazon is scum, Sno is the second scum by association, 100%
##Unvote: glurio
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On February 03 2013 02:19 cDgCorazon wrote: Fine Cake, I shall rephrase.
He's trying to convince us he is not scum with an argument that, to me, does not compute. How could I possibly vote for Sn0 over him?
You completely miss the point.
Here's my biggest beef with you:
On February 03 2013 02:05 cakepie wrote: Corazon, you've chosen to ignore everything I've said over the earlier part of D3.
Like these things, yah?: + Show Spoiler +On February 01 2013 16:48 cakepie wrote:Anyone else subscribing to "Sn0 is telling the truth" needs to justify their choice of two of three possible scum (and by extension, who of three is town). Corazon will at some point need to explain where he derives the bias against Glurio and Slayalot from. He's almost given me a free pass, a dangerous thing to do at MYLO. + Show Spoiler +On February 01 2013 12:48 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm all for lynching either Glurio or Slayalot today. I want to see how both of them play out D3 before making a decision.
On February 02 2013 07:15 cakepie wrote:Guys, I want to emphasize that we cannot simply play today based solely on the reasoning that: "I strongly believe Sno's cop claim and his green checks, therefore we've already solved this game easily". Over reliance on blue powers, and thus slacking off on your own scumhunting, is a poor way to play and will not help you improve. [...] @ Cora, Acid: "Sn0 has my alignment correct" should be a null tell. Scum with a cop fakeclaim could also trivially supply correct alignments, because they already know. DO NOT use this as basis to support your belief that he is honest. [...] Basically, what I'm trying to get at, is that this statement: Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:47 Sn0_Man wrote: DO YOU BELIEVE ME? That question is the entirety of this game right now. BTW you is Acid/Cake/Cora. Slay/Glurio obviously won't believe me. That's not actually true at all. We all need to scumhunt for other supporting evidence against lynch targets, instead of simply banking on strong belief in a cop claim. On February 02 2013 07:37 cakepie wrote:
We have 26+ hours to work with here. The game may be solved from [Sn0's] perspective, but I don't see why the rest of us should not spend this available time to find other evidence that would help bolster our confidence that it's glurio being scum with his most likely partner being slayalot.
All you've given is this bloody weak sauce: + Show Spoiler +On February 02 2013 07:31 cDgCorazon wrote:Why I think Sn0's claim is real: Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 00:13 cDgCorazon wrote: 1) Lack of counter-claim (Mafia cop would not want to claim because lynching one of them gets one half of the scum team either killed that day or the next) 2) Lack of a roleblock claim (We've had two night cycles, I don't think anyone would have lied about being RB'd D2. If they were RB'd they would've said it at the beginning of D2, and Sn0 claimed towards end of D2.) 3)His check on me was correct (It's only confirming for me, but it's what solidifies my opinion.
Even Sn0 told you this was bad and wrong.
And: + Show Spoiler +On February 02 2013 16:11 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 07:35 Sn0_Man wrote: 3) I believe the logic is that if I'm scum, so are you. Reason being I cop-claimed for no reason except to save you. Well since I know I am town, I'm certain that you are Cop. I'm going to vote for Glurio because of all the arguments above (voting history, activity level) and the fact that his arguments aren't good enough to convince me that Sn0 is town (the emotional "Sn0scum" BS is ridiculously suspicious as well). ##Vote: GlurioA scum flip on Glurio would basically confirm everything about Sn0 and all of the webs interlinking with that (I'll save association cases for after the lynch). [...] this is basically locking in my vote. You won't get a chance to do D4 association cases if we mess up and mislynch today. A town flip on Glurio would basically end the game in a loss for town.
You haven't demonstrated enough due diligence with your D3 decision yet.
In fact, you're coming dangerously close to looking like:
On February 01 2013 04:00 cakepie wrote:sheep opinions that are already expressed by other players, and wagon their vote without justification.
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Fine, do you want to vote me off to confirm Sn0 as Cop? If you guys are so certain that I'm scum, do it.
If you all want to throw the game for the town, vote me out. I dare you.
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##Unvote ##Vote: cDgCorazon
I'm fucking serious about this.
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On February 01 2013 12:48 cDgCorazon wrote: Well I'm not willing to restate the obvious, but if Sn0 is telling the truth, the only possible scum are:
Cakepie Glurio Slayalot
Cakepie has played a more town-oriented game than the other two. If I vote for Slayalot, no one else is going to (my vote would be a waste, and we don't want that, do we?)
The only other option left is Glurio.
You guys beat up on my for sticking to my guns D2 (and I was right), so why are you beating me up for it now if the last time I switched it was to the Doctor?
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Are you going to vote me or not?
I'm going to play the fucking game the way I want to, not the way you demand me to.
There's no need for you to over complicate things. I think Glurio is scum, therefore I was going to vote for him. Since you obviously don't want me to vote for Glurio without posting 5 paragraphs about why I think he's scum, the obviously means I'm not town and I am indeed scum.
If you're gonna vote for me, step up and do it. If you want to lunch me for information, have fun losing.
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On February 03 2013 03:49 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm going to play the fucking game the way I want to
Right back atcha.
Acid, are you still around?
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I'm gonna jump out of the discussion, but not before I say this:
Cakepie, you saw my scum play from XXXIII, I did a lot better job blending and making cases AS SCUM. Do you really think that if I was scum, I wouldn't be playing this badly?
If you really think I'm scummier than Glurio, vote me. You'll put the town in a giant hole. I guarantee it.
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Another silly mistake by me...
EBWOP: If you think I'm scum, would I be playing this badly?
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On February 03 2013 04:09 cDgCorazon wrote: Another silly mistake by me...
EBWOP: If you think I'm scum, would I be playing this badly?
If you're town your play is even worse.
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Long draft in progress, Acid, wait for it.
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On February 03 2013 04:00 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 03:49 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm going to play the fucking game the way I want to Right back atcha. Acid, are you still around?
Yes.
Playing the victim, appeal to martyrdom and the good old if I was scum would I play so bad thing.
The thing is, if Corazon is town then he's played even worse. Slayalot barely played at all. Ditto glurio.
The more I think about the possible setups and scum teams, the more I realize: no matter who my town team is, I don't actually care if they win this game because they've been terrible.
In fact, the only configuration where I come out of this game still having any respect for anyone is the Sn0_Man/Corazon scum team.
I'm tired and don't really want to play this game anymore. If I'm right about Corazon, then Snoman is guaranteed scum and we win, the game is over. If I'm wrong, then we lose and the game is over.
Since it's the best way to end this clusterfuck and get on to doing more enjoyable things such as hammering nails through my dick:
##Vote: cDgCorazon
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Acid, you are one of the most unpleasant people I've ever had the displeasure of playing Mafia with. Please stay off these forums if you can't display a non-zero amount of maturity.
If you guys thinking lynching me will find Sn0 as scum, you're all going to be ridiculously disappointed in 5 hours.
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On February 03 2013 05:06 cDgCorazon wrote: Acid, you are one of the most unpleasant people I've ever had the displeasure of playing Mafia with. Please stay off these forums if you can't display a non-zero amount of maturity.
And the same to you, good sir. At least I realized my mistake, late as it was, and tried to improve my attitude. You haven't. In fact, you've gotten worse.
If you guys thinking lynching me will find Sn0 as scum, you're all going to be ridiculously disappointed in 5 hours.
Meh. Don't care. If you're town, you've lost us the game with your shit-flinging, retarded cases and sheep votes.
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At least I didn't waste the first two days tunneling WB...don't be hypocritical and say I played the worst game when in fact you have played even worse...
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Stop this bullshit you guys.
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Damnit guys, stop being retards. I agree, cora is playing like shit.
However, its MYLO if you lynch him we lose.
So, Do you believe I'm cop? or scum? Decide and we end the game one way or the other.
Lynching anybody but glurio or slay is the same as lynching me, so that is the decision here.
@cora dont fucking vote yourself retard its mylo. If we lynch you to prove, we lose on the spot.
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If they can't see that I'm town, then we all deserve to lose...it's their stupidity.
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On February 03 2013 05:26 cDgCorazon wrote: At least I didn't waste the first two days tunneling WB...don't be hypocritical and say I played the worst game when in fact you have played even worse...
Right, you just threw accusations left and right and voted to mislynch twice. That's much better town play. Where were you when I stopped tunneling WB and tried my hardest to not have our doctor lynched? Sleeping? Working? Not good enough.
I may have been misguided and virulent. You lied. You were lazy in your scumhunting and when it was pointed out you made excuses and lied some more and at no point did you say or do anything that led to anything other than a mislynch.
Like I've said before, your attitude is treasonous. No matter your alignment, you were the scum team MVP this game.
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I'm just curious, on a scale of 1 to 10, how sure are you that I'm scum?
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Can we seriously not agree to lynch glurio? Read his posts...
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On February 03 2013 05:47 cDgCorazon wrote: If they can't see that I'm town, then we all deserve to lose...it's their stupidity.
You've done nothing this entire game that could even be remotely construed as town-motivated.
We have a saying here: when you feel that everyone around you is an idiot, it's probably you who is the idiot instead.
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Remember guys, this is just a game. Leave the personal attacks out of it (I know it can be heated, but it's all for fun at the end of the day) Thanks!
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On February 03 2013 05:59 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm just curious, on a scale of 1 to 10, how sure are you that I'm scum?
50/50
I just hope that you're scum because it would mean you're not pants-on-head retarded and I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.
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Sorry, didn't see that blue post before I posted. I'll stop now.
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On February 03 2013 06:04 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 05:47 cDgCorazon wrote: If they can't see that I'm town, then we all deserve to lose...it's their stupidity. You've done nothing this entire game that could even be remotely construed as town-motivated.
Thats a pretty big statement. Pretty ad-hominem and tunnel-vision.
Please evaluate glurio, then evaluate me, and see who you think is MORE LIKELY to be scum. Then choose. Choosing to lynch cora is choosing to lynch me (and a loss, but you can't know that 100%).
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Let's take a moment and look at where things stand from my perspective:
If I take the easy option, and simply believe Sn0, then obviously the scumteam is glurio and slayalot.
However, if I don't believe Sn0, then he is clearly scum, and anyone else could be his scumbuddy. Corazon is the foremost candidate for that position, by the sheer amount of saving one another that went on between them.
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The problem with a glurio + slayalot scumteam is that the case for that is hilariously weak.
Here's what I said earlier in D3:
On February 01 2013 11:40 cakepie wrote:I'm going to start with this and see where it takes us with regard to my two strongest scumreads. ##Vote: Slayalot ##FoS: glurio
Reason: Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 04:00 cakepie wrote: who is simply content to safely cast weak suspicions all over the place without commitment, sheep opinions that are already expressed by other players, and wagon their vote without justification.
as well as voting patterns
The funny thing is, this was the truth: my strongest scumreads rely on a bunch of lousy voting patterns and handwavy judgement of playstyle. That's really only slightly scummy.
Acid nailed it on the head:
On February 03 2013 02:37 Acid~ wrote: There's not enough activity from glurio to make a case. Bottom line is, I think glurio's activity is consistent with a lazy townie. It's also consistent with scum.
Only a good faith belief in Sn0's cop claim can provide (conditional) strong support to the case -- conditional, because it depends on if you believe Sn0.
I did mention that initially leaned towards:
On February 01 2013 10:00 cakepie wrote: Sn0_Man: There is no way a scum Sn0 could safely claim cop when he did. I don't think we're looking at some complicated and daring scum gambit. This is more likely to be a true, goodwill attempt to prevent a Corazon mislynch.
On February 02 2013 07:15 cakepie wrote: I'm not saying that I consider Sn0's claim to be a lie -- the claim is fairly strong. It serves as great backing evidence to go with my own reads.
But I also left open this possibility:
On February 02 2013 07:15 cakepie wrote: it is not 100% unassailable,
And I have been doing my due diligence to go back in the thread to re-test my own belief that Sn0's cop claim is unsafe for scum, and is "too complicated" under occam's razor. Meanwhile, I've also been exhorting others to try to scumhunt further instead of relying on a set of claims alone.
There are cases to be made -- but no one actually tried hard enough. Glurio made a half-assed attempt, and that's pretty much it.
I left an opening for people to actually play, but it didn't happen. - Slayalot is not even a player at this point. - Glurio put in some weak sauce, and left to go party. - Sn0 won't do anything except bank on his cop claim. - Cora doesn't want to play along, just wanted to bank everything on Sn0, and then goes into martyrdom brinkmanship mode. - Acid is too frustrated to care any more. - FUCKING SHIT-FLINGING FEST ENSUES
Now it is clear to me that if you want things done right, you'll have to do it yourself.
Sn0 + Cora scumteam hypothesis narrative coming up, next post. Still drafting.
Because I will leave no stone unturned. Sn0's claim is indeed everything that will swing this game one way or the other, and I am determined to weigh both possibilities carefully before we settle this.
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On February 03 2013 06:09 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 06:04 Acid~ wrote:On February 03 2013 05:47 cDgCorazon wrote: If they can't see that I'm town, then we all deserve to lose...it's their stupidity. You've done nothing this entire game that could even be remotely construed as town-motivated. Thats a pretty big statement. Pretty ad-hominem and tunnel-vision. Please evaluate glurio, then evaluate me, and see who you think is MORE LIKELY to be scum. Then choose. Choosing to lynch cora is choosing to lynch me (and a loss, but you can't know that 100%).
First I want to see who/if I can get behind on a Cora lynch.
Also,
Can we get a vote count please?
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On February 03 2013 06:16 Acid~ wrote: First I want to see who/if I can get behind on a Cora lynch.
Your best bet would be me, because sn0 won't do it, and we have no idea what is up with the other two.
It won't work without at least one of them if cora unvotes himself.
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Acid why are you voting for someone that you're only 50% sure is scum? Not very convincing.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
Vote Count
cDgCorazon (2) : cDgCorazon, Acid~ Slayalot (1) : cakepie glurio (1) : Sn0_Man, cDgCorazon, Acid~ Sn0_Man (1) : glurio
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On February 03 2013 06:28 cDgCorazon wrote: Acid why are you voting for someone that you're only 50% sure is scum? Not very convincing.
I'm done talking to you.
Waiting on cakepie's theory to see if it matches my own.
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I dunno, maybe I'm too much in love with logic, but once I have solved the game, playing isn't much fun anymore. I can't make posts that will convince anybody (to my knowledge) because I *know* every last person's alignment (except cake/slay are not quite 100%). Trying to "scumhunt" doesn't mean anything to me anymore. I feel almost like a scum player, in that I know what is up and now I have nothing to contribute. Only difference is that I wish to bring clarity, not cloud people's thoughts. However, you guys are resisting the clarity that I try to bring with all your might. I honestly don't know what I can do to prove my towniness over glurios.
Immediately post-night 2, glurio comes out swinging because he knows he *has* to discredit me or he loses. He makes more in-depth posts than ever before and they are extremely tunnelled on me (admittedly mine are equally tunnelled on him). After basically blowing his cover (since his previous excuse was basically bad/lazy town), he retreats into hiding hoping the seeds of doubt he has sown blossom and grow. He has flung his shit and has no real content to provide so he resumes lurking. And over the course of this day, instead of clearing stuff up, the rest of town decides that it wants to lynch... Corazon? what is up here? There is no possible way from any perspective that corazon is the right lynch. However, cakepie's obsession with "playing the game" have resulted in more uncertainty and lack of clarity. If you choose to believe that glurio is just a lazy townie, then explain his outburst post-N2, especially how well he grasped my options as cop and how scum could abuse them to make me look scummy. He clearly had spent a ton of time thinking on it and working through the possibilities. Not really consisted with lazy town IMO, but very consistent with lurky scum.
I don't know what else to say. There is no playing left for me. I have solved the game, provided as much info to you as possible, and now I await the jury's choice.
If you wish to pressure corazon in an attempt to identify him as part of a me-him scumteam, then go ahead, but if that ends up being the case, then lynch me please, since I *must* be part of any scumteam with him on it. I want you guys to know who you are siding with when you make the lynch.
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Okay, this is really long.
This is what things look like to me through a Sn0+Cora scumteam hypothesis goggles.
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Day 1
corazon fluff about confirmation bias and meta, and then listing lurkers http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17636349
brief warbaby vs acid happens.
Sn0 asserts his belief that both warbaby and acid are trying to take control of town, rather than actually scumhunting http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17641802
warbaby vs Sn0 happens.
corazon makes some useless side comments http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17639117 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17642031 and goes back to just listing lurkers http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17642563 and calling out the penis contest http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17643306
Sn0 votes, and leaves http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17646502 His second vote on SkaPunk makes the wagon credible and enables others to wagon on. Both scum and silly townie sheep can easily bandwagon.
zare actually sounds like a voice of reason amidst the whole mess http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17644643 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17648807
Night 1
Sn0 soft busses Cora on setup details.
Zare makes a case on Cora without relying on the setup error: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17653902
Glurio and and slayalot both cast some WIFOM suspicion toward warbaby.
There is some bollocks going on about warbaby looks scummy by association with mocsta meta -- complete bollocks, I am amazed how that was even admissible to anyone. Zare actually speaks sense here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17655668 But Acid makes a late night case against warbaby.
What would a Sn0+Cora scumteam do here? glurio and slayalot aren't very active or useful, they are not a threat, and can be manipulated. Acid could be painted as going apeshit all over warbaby, plus he was gone for a good chunk and did not vote. safe to keep around. AFK (later replaced by myself late in N1) was an unknown factor, could be left for later. Zare makes reasonable, sensible arguments. Warbaby also demonstrated that he is a highly active player who will engage and spar with anyone.
Kill Zare. He is able to remain calm, and use sound reason. Why not warbaby? because Warbaby looks more likely to be influenceable, and it looks possible to drive a mislynch on him.
Role Check Warbaby might have happened or not. Not too important.
==========
Day 2
The nightkill fails. Was Zare saved by a doc, or saved by a JK?
The day opens with warbaby vs acid. Corazon tries to sound reasonable, but then FoS into warbaby for continued tunnelling When warbaby tries to post reason for others, corazon paints it with emotional appeal: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17658510 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17658553
Sn0 is the first with the setup speculation: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17662395
warbaby's post here is telling in hindsight:
On January 30 2013 02:04 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 00:23 Sn0_Man wrote: C) Town has a JailKeeper/Doctor who is a clairvoyant (this one seems the most likely).
In the case of C, however, there is an interesting distinction between having a JK and a Doc. If we have a Doc, they have a confirmed townie on their hands, although that isn't necessarily that helpful. If we have a JK, then they know that their target is EITHER mafia OR the mafia target last night. But they can't be certain which. That again is interesting.
I don't think B) could happen either, since Cakepie is the only TRULY afk player over the course of all of Night 1... although if anybody can come up with a plausible scumteam that was simply afk all night 1 I'm listening. I'd love to discuss what actually happened N1, which I see as a great win for town. Note that there is one variation of the setup that allows for both JK and Doc (if I'm not reading the wiki wrong here -- love to see our authority on math and statistics, Acid~, to contribute on this point, but he's probably won't bother responding to this post, assuming he ever reads it). If the blue is doc, should they claim? I don't think it was clairvoyant that nobody died N1 (and I think you sound like a sadscum by saying this), I think it was just damned lucky. Probably won't happen again, and there's a chance the Doc (if there is one) will be killed before they can do anything more useful. If the doc exists and claims, and scum kills them, we end up with a 100% confirmed town and a no kill on Night 1. Is this good for town? I'm not sure if this makes sense. I haven't put a lot of thought into reasons and possible results around town power role claims.
"I made a lucky save. Does it make sense for me to make a claim?"
If scumteam realized this, they would have suspected warbaby to be doc. (Or they might have already had a rolecop check)
Warbaby makes a side comment about not believing in clairvoyance. Scumteam could read this as a confirmation that "I did not see clearly, I just made a lucky save"
Sn0 latches on to the comment on clairvoyance as justification for his vote. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17663135 This is complete bullshit, of course.
Zare convinces warbaby with calm reason to try making other cases. You can see why he would comply, since he had zare confirmed town.
I appear and mention the fact that JK blocks result in a notification. This is news to Sn0. Scumteam now knows that they were not blocked by JK. He figures out the implications: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17665292
As Acid makes his reappearance, Corazon comes in to offer a polar choice: Lynch either WB or Acid. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17665711 At 26 hours to go, he just wants to mislynch either of the guys who are actively prying around. It is convenient that they tunnel one another.
Continuing lack of JK claim or roleblocked claims increases confidence of scumteam that they know the setup http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17665775 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17665787
Acid vs Corazon happens. There is a lot of WIFOM.
Zare starts casting some real suspicions against Corazon, backed by a strong read of hypocrisy from Corazon http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17673093
Sn0 rushes to dismiss the possibility of a Corazon wagon http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17673269
Zare also posts a case on warbaby. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17673310
Sn0 likes this case much better! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17673365
At the same time there is some suspicion cast lightly toward Zare: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17673448 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17674187
Warbaby falls back to a lurker lynch. Gets goaded into making a very ill-advised softclaim. Sn0 presses him for a hard claim. Scum wants blue to out! Unfortunately there is no way out of it. Acid and zare are also pressing for the claim. Glurio's vote adds pressure since he actually looks like might get lynched.
Warbay claims at January 31 2013 06:04. zare unvotes, but slaylot votes on. the four votes on warbaby are Acid, Sn0, glurio, Slayalot.
Corazon refuses to move onto warbaby. He needs to stay off the wagon for now http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17676374 Sn0 backs him up: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17676429
But then there is actually some momentum toward a Corazon wagon. As momentum builds, Sn0 tries to save Cora again: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17676827
It gets to:
warbaby (3): Acid, Sn0, zarepath, glurio, Slayalot Corazon (3): Acid, zarepath, warbaby
Corazon shits his pants. There are 8 players, he NEEDS to vote warbaby to bring it to 4, because he has no way of knowing what I would do.
Acid points out that Sn0 has been crumbing Cora: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17677383
Except, Acid, those are not breadcrumbs at all. It is only a crumb if Sn0 used steganography in N1 to indicate that he intended to check Cora. This is what real crumbs look like: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386911¤tpage=73#1460
What happens is that this presents an opening to Sn0 Cora scumteam -- they can try to risk a fakeclaim here to save Cora. It is actually a modersately safe claim, because they are fairly certain that there is no JK. They will risk a possible cop counterclaim, because no one has come out with a cop claim yet, despite the whole day.
The bet is this: a cop would know that by claiming, there would be a confirmed doc+cop setup, the strongest setup possible. The game then becomes a simple follow-the cop. With D1+D2 mislynch, N1 nokill, and N2 doc kill, the cop would have 3 confirmed reads (2 from cop checks, one is Zare=town) in a 6 player game on D3. It would be easy!
The lack of this makes it quite safe for Sn0 to cop claim.
The problem is, he insists on not seeing the simple follow-the-cop for the win. Even if warbaby is scum with doc fakeclaim, we'd have dead cop with a town read on Cora, and a confirmed scum in warbaby.. also EZ-PZ.
This is what makes Sn0's failure to switch off warbaby really scummy.
Night 2
Cora finds himself in a bad position, so he throws shit at zare: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17679171 We all call him out for it.
Sn0+cora worry that if Sn0 stays alive, he will get lynched because town won't believe in a situation that scum does not kill the cop claim. My posts and reasoning leaves them a way out of the situation -- but there does not look like there is enough controversy around Sn0. Only glurio threw some shit at Sn0. So, Cora tries stupid convoluted tricks to give plausibility to the scenario that Sn0 lives.
The expected happens: we lose a confirmed town.
But Zare points out one important thing
On February 01 2013 10:00 zarepath wrote: If Sn0_Man is not killed, I really suggest that you look at his filter, and the thread leading up to his cop claim. He only cop claimed after Cora was under a lot of attack and Acid is the one who suggested that he was breadcrumbing and cop claiming before he actually cop claimed -- and his earlier posts make it seem as though he didn't know the setup blue possibilities despite bieng cop. His breadcrumbs aren't entirely justified.
And his late post seems SUPER scummy. The thing is, I can totally see and understand a scum team realizing that if they don't do something, they're pretty much done for, and they ahve to take the 1-in-3 chance (closer to 1-in-2 because there was no evidence of a JK) to cop claim. It wasn't really meditated; Acid kind of just forced him into it (incidentally), and it was worth the risk.
And like I already said a couple of times, those aren't even real breadcrumbs.
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Day 3
Sn0 and Cora won't work with me, shit fest happens.
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TL;DR: Zare is right about why Sn0's claim looks off.
##Unvote ##Vote: cdgCorazon
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Corazon: if you are town and want to win, you would unvote yourself. martyrdom is an awful way to play. Explain your D2 and N2, and show us by other means why the scum are glurio and/or Slay.
Sn0: Why should I vote you, when your death does not fully confirm Cora scum? I play to win. If cora flips scum, then you must be scum. The reverse is not true, in spite of the association between the two of you. Show us why your cop claim is actually credible, and walk us through your D2 through the eyes of a cop.
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On February 03 2013 07:23 Sn0_Man wrote: Immediately post-night 2, glurio comes out swinging because he knows he *has* to discredit me or he loses. He makes more in-depth posts than ever before and they are extremely tunnelled on me (admittedly mine are equally tunnelled on him). After basically blowing his cover (since his previous excuse was basically bad/lazy town), he retreats into hiding hoping the seeds of doubt he has sown blossom and grow. He has flung his shit and has no real content to provide so he resumes lurking. And over the course of this day, instead of clearing stuff up, the rest of town decides that it wants to lynch... Corazon? what is up here? There is no possible way from any perspective that corazon is the right lynch. However, cakepie's obsession with "playing the game" have resulted in more uncertainty and lack of clarity. If you choose to believe that glurio is just a lazy townie, then explain his outburst post-N2, especially how well he grasped my options as cop and how scum could abuse them to make me look scummy. He clearly had spent a ton of time thinking on it and working through the possibilities. Not really consisted with lazy town IMO, but very consistent with lurky scum.
See, this is the sort of thing I wanted sooner.
On February 03 2013 07:23 Sn0_Man wrote: I don't know what else to say. There is no playing left for me. I have solved the game, provided as much info to you as possible, and now I await the jury's choice.
The jury needs convincing. You have to bring other evidence besides a policeman's testimony.
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On February 03 2013 07:24 cakepie wrote:Okay, this is really long. This is what things look like to me through a Sn0+Cora scumteam hypothesis goggles. + Show Spoiler +========== Day 1corazon fluff about confirmation bias and meta, and then listing lurkers http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17636349brief warbaby vs acid happens. Sn0 asserts his belief that both warbaby and acid are trying to take control of town, rather than actually scumhunting http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17641802warbaby vs Sn0 happens. corazon makes some useless side comments http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17639117http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17642031and goes back to just listing lurkers http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17642563and calling out the penis contest http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17643306Sn0 votes, and leaves http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17646502His second vote on SkaPunk makes the wagon credible and enables others to wagon on. Both scum and silly townie sheep can easily bandwagon. zare actually sounds like a voice of reason amidst the whole mess http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17644643http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17648807Night 1Sn0 soft busses Cora on setup details. Zare makes a case on Cora without relying on the setup error: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17653902Glurio and and slayalot both cast some WIFOM suspicion toward warbaby. There is some bollocks going on about warbaby looks scummy by association with mocsta meta -- complete bollocks, I am amazed how that was even admissible to anyone. Zare actually speaks sense here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17655668But Acid makes a late night case against warbaby. What would a Sn0+Cora scumteam do here? glurio and slayalot aren't very active or useful, they are not a threat, and can be manipulated. Acid could be painted as going apeshit all over warbaby, plus he was gone for a good chunk and did not vote. safe to keep around. AFK (later replaced by myself late in N1) was an unknown factor, could be left for later. Zare makes reasonable, sensible arguments. Warbaby also demonstrated that he is a highly active player who will engage and spar with anyone. Kill Zare. He is able to remain calm, and use sound reason. Why not warbaby? because Warbaby looks more likely to be influenceable, and it looks possible to drive a mislynch on him. Role Check Warbaby might have happened or not. Not too important. ========== Day 2The nightkill fails. Was Zare saved by a doc, or saved by a JK? The day opens with warbaby vs acid. Corazon tries to sound reasonable, but then FoS into warbaby for continued tunnelling When warbaby tries to post reason for others, corazon paints it with emotional appeal: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17658510http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17658553Sn0 is the first with the setup speculation: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17662395warbaby's post here is telling in hindsight: On January 30 2013 02:04 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 00:23 Sn0_Man wrote: C) Town has a JailKeeper/Doctor who is a clairvoyant (this one seems the most likely).
In the case of C, however, there is an interesting distinction between having a JK and a Doc. If we have a Doc, they have a confirmed townie on their hands, although that isn't necessarily that helpful. If we have a JK, then they know that their target is EITHER mafia OR the mafia target last night. But they can't be certain which. That again is interesting.
I don't think B) could happen either, since Cakepie is the only TRULY afk player over the course of all of Night 1... although if anybody can come up with a plausible scumteam that was simply afk all night 1 I'm listening. I'd love to discuss what actually happened N1, which I see as a great win for town. Note that there is one variation of the setup that allows for both JK and Doc (if I'm not reading the wiki wrong here -- love to see our authority on math and statistics, Acid~, to contribute on this point, but he's probably won't bother responding to this post, assuming he ever reads it). If the blue is doc, should they claim? I don't think it was clairvoyant that nobody died N1 (and I think you sound like a sadscum by saying this), I think it was just damned lucky. Probably won't happen again, and there's a chance the Doc (if there is one) will be killed before they can do anything more useful. If the doc exists and claims, and scum kills them, we end up with a 100% confirmed town and a no kill on Night 1. Is this good for town? I'm not sure if this makes sense. I haven't put a lot of thought into reasons and possible results around town power role claims. "I made a lucky save. Does it make sense for me to make a claim?" If scumteam realized this, they would have suspected warbaby to be doc. (Or they might have already had a rolecop check) Warbaby makes a side comment about not believing in clairvoyance. Scumteam could read this as a confirmation that "I did not see clearly, I just made a lucky save" Sn0 latches on to the comment on clairvoyance as justification for his vote. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17663135This is complete bullshit, of course. Zare convinces warbaby with calm reason to try making other cases. You can see why he would comply, since he had zare confirmed town. I appear and mention the fact that JK blocks result in a notification. This is news to Sn0. Scumteam now knows that they were not blocked by JK. He figures out the implications: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17665292As Acid makes his reappearance, Corazon comes in to offer a polar choice: Lynch either WB or Acid. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17665711At 26 hours to go, he just wants to mislynch either of the guys who are actively prying around. It is convenient that they tunnel one another. Continuing lack of JK claim or roleblocked claims increases confidence of scumteam that they know the setup http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17665775http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17665787Acid vs Corazon happens. There is a lot of WIFOM. Zare starts casting some real suspicions against Corazon, backed by a strong read of hypocrisy from Corazon http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17673093Sn0 rushes to dismiss the possibility of a Corazon wagon http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17673269Zare also posts a case on warbaby. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17673310Sn0 likes this case much better! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17673365At the same time there is some suspicion cast lightly toward Zare: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17673448http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17674187Warbaby falls back to a lurker lynch. Gets goaded into making a very ill-advised softclaim. Sn0 presses him for a hard claim. Scum wants blue to out! Unfortunately there is no way out of it. Acid and zare are also pressing for the claim. Glurio's vote adds pressure since he actually looks like might get lynched. Warbay claims at January 31 2013 06:04.zare unvotes, but slaylot votes on. the four votes on warbaby are Acid, Sn0, glurio, Slayalot. Corazon refuses to move onto warbaby. He needs to stay off the wagon for now http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17676374Sn0 backs him up: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17676429But then there is actually some momentum toward a Corazon wagon. As momentum builds, Sn0 tries to save Cora again: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17676827It gets to: warbaby (3): Acid, Sn0, zarepath, glurio, Slayalot Corazon (3): Acid, zarepath, warbaby Corazon shits his pants. There are 8 players, he NEEDS to vote warbaby to bring it to 4, because he has no way of knowing what I would do. Acid points out that Sn0 has been crumbing Cora: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17677383Except, Acid, those are not breadcrumbs at all. It is only a crumb if Sn0 used steganography in N1 to indicate that he intended to check Cora. This is what real crumbs look like: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386911¤tpage=73#1460What happens is that this presents an opening to Sn0 Cora scumteam -- they can try to risk a fakeclaim here to save Cora. It is actually a modersately safe claim, because they are fairly certain that there is no JK. They will risk a possible cop counterclaim, because no one has come out with a cop claim yet, despite the whole day. The bet is this: a cop would know that by claiming, there would be a confirmed doc+cop setup, the strongest setup possible. The game then becomes a simple follow-the cop. With D1+D2 mislynch, N1 nokill, and N2 doc kill, the cop would have 3 confirmed reads (2 from cop checks, one is Zare=town) in a 6 player game on D3. It would be easy! The lack of this makes it quite safe for Sn0 to cop claim. The problem is, he insists on not seeing the simple follow-the-cop for the win. Even if warbaby is scum with doc fakeclaim, we'd have dead cop with a town read on Cora, and a confirmed scum in warbaby.. also EZ-PZ. This is what makes Sn0's failure to switch off warbaby really scummy. Night 2Cora finds himself in a bad position, so he throws shit at zare: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17679171We all call him out for it. Sn0+cora worry that if Sn0 stays alive, he will get lynched because town won't believe in a situation that scum does not kill the cop claim. My posts and reasoning leaves them a way out of the situation -- but there does not look like there is enough controversy around Sn0. Only glurio threw some shit at Sn0. So, Cora tries stupid convoluted tricks to give plausibility to the scenario that Sn0 lives. The expected happens: we lose a confirmed town. But Zare points out one important thing On February 01 2013 10:00 zarepath wrote: If Sn0_Man is not killed, I really suggest that you look at his filter, and the thread leading up to his cop claim. He only cop claimed after Cora was under a lot of attack and Acid is the one who suggested that he was breadcrumbing and cop claiming before he actually cop claimed -- and his earlier posts make it seem as though he didn't know the setup blue possibilities despite bieng cop. His breadcrumbs aren't entirely justified.
And his late post seems SUPER scummy. The thing is, I can totally see and understand a scum team realizing that if they don't do something, they're pretty much done for, and they ahve to take the 1-in-3 chance (closer to 1-in-2 because there was no evidence of a JK) to cop claim. It wasn't really meditated; Acid kind of just forced him into it (incidentally), and it was worth the risk.
And like I already said a couple of times, those aren't even real breadcrumbs. ========== Day 3Sn0 and Cora won't work with me, shit fest happens. ========== TL;DR: Zare is right about why Sn0's claim looks off. ##Unvote ##Vote: cdgCorazon
Read my post above please.
Beyond that, I suppose you want some justification of pre-Day2 lynch? I was plenty sure that warbaby was scum, so I had no interest in checking him. Corazon also looked scummy, but I really wasn't sure. I wanted some clarity. The town check surprised me, but I left him alone from there. I still thought he was playing for scum, although he clearly was town. At least he was playing.
My vote on warbaby wasn't "justified" by warbaby's clairvoyance comments, it was justified well previously. I had merely left out the actual voting part, so I threw it in there. I still maintain that warbaby was the scummiest player around that was actually playing, and that my vote was legit. The fact that I wished to change it (and failed) is a bit awkward but I have said before that I think we made the right lynch that day. It solved the game.
The rest of the game is just 5 townies fighting amongst themselves while 2 scum laugh their asses off in the QT. The other 2 were utter AFK's (skapunk, and your predecessor). If you don't think everybody was hilariously paranoid and wrong, I don't know what is up, but I will point out that it was YOU YOURSELF WHO SAID:
On February 01 2013 04:00 cakepie wrote: Look at who among you are willing to come out and make controversial statements and possibly offend people. And look at who is simply content to safely cast weak suspicions all over the place without commitment, sheep opinions that are already expressed by other players, and wagon their vote without justification.
And if glurio/slay don't fit that way better than me (and cora I guess?) then we deserve to lose.
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On February 03 2013 07:35 cakepie wrote: Sn0: Why should I vote you, when your death does not fully confirm Cora scum? I play to win. If cora flips scum, then you must be scum. The reverse is not true, in spite of the association between the two of you. Show us why your cop claim is actually credible, and walk us through your D2 through the eyes of a cop.
B-B-B-Bullshit.
We already covered this. The scumteam is EITHER glurio +1 OR me +1. Cora, to be scum, has to be MY scumbuddy. Therefore, by lynching him you claim to know a full scumteam. By lynching me, you allow yourself an extra day of scumhunting to nail cora (or any other of my hypothetical scumbuddies, you aren't locked in on that choice). You have used similar logic on me already today. Hence my request: ME OR GLURIO
I honestly believe that the easiest way for me to influence town towards the right lynch is to force them into THIS PARTICULAR DECISION, me or glurio. While basically any decision is equivalent (slay vs cora, glurio vs cora, etc), this is the one that I believe is the most likely for town to make correctly.
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to clarify, I'm calling your choice of cora over me bullshit, nothing else.
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On February 03 2013 07:40 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 07:23 Sn0_Man wrote: Immediately post-night 2, glurio comes out swinging because he knows he *has* to discredit me or he loses. He makes more in-depth posts than ever before and they are extremely tunnelled on me (admittedly mine are equally tunnelled on him). After basically blowing his cover (since his previous excuse was basically bad/lazy town), he retreats into hiding hoping the seeds of doubt he has sown blossom and grow. He has flung his shit and has no real content to provide so he resumes lurking. And over the course of this day, instead of clearing stuff up, the rest of town decides that it wants to lynch... Corazon? what is up here? There is no possible way from any perspective that corazon is the right lynch. However, cakepie's obsession with "playing the game" have resulted in more uncertainty and lack of clarity. If you choose to believe that glurio is just a lazy townie, then explain his outburst post-N2, especially how well he grasped my options as cop and how scum could abuse them to make me look scummy. He clearly had spent a ton of time thinking on it and working through the possibilities. Not really consisted with lazy town IMO, but very consistent with lurky scum. See, this is the sort of thing I wanted sooner. I'm pretty sure I made these arguments sooner.
On February 03 2013 07:40 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 07:23 Sn0_Man wrote: I don't know what else to say. There is no playing left for me. I have solved the game, provided as much info to you as possible, and now I await the jury's choice. The jury needs convincing. You have to bring other evidence besides a policeman's testimony. Oh really? Glurio runs up and screams "SNO IS SCUM GUYS", uses red text, then disappears. I make reasoned posts and lay the game out for you so that it is as simple as humanly possible. Good thing we wish to ignore the fuck out of me and just believe glurio. You are really pissing me off.
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Sorry for all that. I know we were just warned to be civil. It just gets frustrating when I have nothing left in this game, and you guys waltz off and decide to lynch corazon (which still doesn't make even a tiny bit of sense). You (all) don't deserve to have posts like that directed at you.
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Chillax, Sn0. I'm still waiting to see what others are going to do.
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Why don't you read corazons filter from a neutral perspective. Do you still not understand why we are voting for him?
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Is corazon actually like really not here any more?
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Enough messing about with hypotheticals. I'm not going to sit here as vote #3 on corazon and leave open the likelihood that glurio and/or slay will pop in and wagon the shit out of it.
I've got the response that I need from Sn0.
##unvote ##vote: glurio
I had to turn confirmation bias on so hard in order to make that bullshit case. Details briefly, just needed the vote switch in asap.
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On February 03 2013 08:09 Acid~ wrote: Why don't you read corazons filter from a neutral perspective. Do you still not understand why we are voting for him?
I totally do, thats part of why a) this is annoying and b) I checked him night 1.
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I'm at a loss here.
I'll go with the strategy that won us the last game, but I really hate the implications.
##unvote ##Vote: glurio
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On February 03 2013 07:52 Sn0_Man wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 03 2013 07:40 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 07:23 Sn0_Man wrote: Immediately post-night 2, glurio comes out swinging because he knows he *has* to discredit me or he loses. He makes more in-depth posts than ever before and they are extremely tunnelled on me (admittedly mine are equally tunnelled on him). After basically blowing his cover (since his previous excuse was basically bad/lazy town), he retreats into hiding hoping the seeds of doubt he has sown blossom and grow. He has flung his shit and has no real content to provide so he resumes lurking. And over the course of this day, instead of clearing stuff up, the rest of town decides that it wants to lynch... Corazon? what is up here? There is no possible way from any perspective that corazon is the right lynch. However, cakepie's obsession with "playing the game" have resulted in more uncertainty and lack of clarity. If you choose to believe that glurio is just a lazy townie, then explain his outburst post-N2, especially how well he grasped my options as cop and how scum could abuse them to make me look scummy. He clearly had spent a ton of time thinking on it and working through the possibilities. Not really consisted with lazy town IMO, but very consistent with lurky scum. See, this is the sort of thing I wanted sooner. I'm pretty sure I made these arguments sooner. On February 03 2013 07:40 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 07:23 Sn0_Man wrote: I don't know what else to say. There is no playing left for me. I have solved the game, provided as much info to you as possible, and now I await the jury's choice. The jury needs convincing. You have to bring other evidence besides a policeman's testimony. Oh really? Glurio runs up and screams "SNO IS SCUM GUYS", uses red text, then disappears. I make reasoned posts and lay the game out for you so that it is as simple as humanly possible. Good thing we wish to ignore the fuck out of me and just believe glurio. You are really pissing me off.
How is my last post just running and screaming? One of it's quotes is the last will of the voice of reason. He posted it at 10:00 so tough luck for sn0.
Why i made a big ass post and didn't do before? Because i finally saw through your scheme. All that fakeclaiming and stuff. And i don't wanna lose to such a gamble, already said that before.
I disappeared because it's saturday evening sorry for being busy. I made sure i was back before lynch and i am. You can ask me anything.
I still believe cora and Sn0 is the scumteam. If you vote for me we'll have another mislynch on our hands.
I'd be down to lynch cora since both of em are sure scum, it's the only combination we have left.
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Just read coras and sn0s filter without believing sn0s fakeclaim for a while. It should make things very clear.
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Sn0 has shown no single argument why i should be scum except "i figured the game out" or "thats the only possible combination". How can you believe such weak evidence when you got so much evidence against him and cora?
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Here's what's wrong with with the case I put together:
- it is the mother of all association cases without flip - the whole D1/N1 speculation on what happened is WIFOM. In particular, the choice for scum to kill Zare N1 is equally valid for other scumteams. - Corazon voting Acid D2 was not unjustified, just poorly justified. - Sn0's second vote on warbaby is not flippant. He did indeed take issue with warbaby's play, and painting him as "sadscum". The justification may not be strongest, but most importantly Sn0 understood the significance of his vote: to force warbaby to defend himself and his behavior, rather than brush it off. - a lot of the D2 WIFOM I put out is equally explainable by Sn0 with a green check on Cora. - slayalot votes onto warbaby to replace zare. this is incriminating for slayalot too, with lack of justification.
zare unvotes, but slaylot votes on. the four votes on warbaby are Acid, Sn0, glurio, Slayalot.
- Corazon shits his pants at impending lynch is technically null. - Sn0's failure to switch is null, as I have described before. - Cora's N2 is easily bad town.
- and lastly
On February 01 2013 10:00 zarepath wrote: [...]. He only cop claimed after Cora was under a lot of attack
Well duh, he didn't want to out himself so soon if he could help it.
On February 01 2013 10:00 zarepath wrote: his earlier posts make it seem as though he didn't know the setup blue possibilities despite bieng cop. He is the cop, does not believe warbaby, thinks it could be cop+VT or cop+JK or cop+doc. For a stretch of time, he even believed that there was a real doc who should not counter claim and expose himself yet. The simple explanation is that Sn0 was just wrong about warbaby.
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On February 03 2013 08:41 Acid~ wrote: I'm at a loss here.
I'll go with the strategy that won us the last game, but I really hate the implications.
You have any better ideas? Because my case was complete bullshit and I had trouble making myself believe it.
And glurio's pleading isn't gaining any traction with me.
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Acid: do you truly believe cora and sn0 are town? How can you not vote for a person you believe is scum?
cake: so what is it you want? If you believe sn0s lies you will mislynch. I have no idea how he thought his fakeclaim gamble is a good idea, but it worked out for him which is utter bullshit if you ask me.
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On February 01 2013 22:03 glurio wrote: Look at sn0s voting pattern and don't just cherry pick what fits your agenda.
On February 02 2013 23:38 glurio wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 05:21 Sn0_Man wrote: Hmm, my vote history is identical to glurio's. Fascinating how incriminating MY vote history is. Right. It's just as incriminating as mine or slays, which i thought cakepie should've also highlighted. So i did highlight it in a fitting color.
It's a different thing to make a wagon credible with a second vote, as opposed to blind bandwagoning for critical mass.
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On February 03 2013 09:09 glurio wrote: Sn0 has shown no single argument why i should be scum except "i figured the game out" or "thats the only possible combination". How can you believe such weak evidence when you got so much evidence against him and cora?
You mean my bullshit "case"? It doesn't hold water under scrutiny, and I didn't even believe it myself.
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On February 03 2013 09:31 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 08:41 Acid~ wrote: I'm at a loss here.
I'll go with the strategy that won us the last game, but I really hate the implications.
You have any better ideas? Because my case was complete bullshit and I had trouble making myself believe it. And glurio's pleading isn't gaining any traction with me.
No, that's what makes me sad. I really believe glurio is scum, which means Corazon is town. I think that's going to be it for me on the mafia games for a while.
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There was no blind wagoning from my side. warbaby cast the first vote after quoting me. And i was suspicious of warbaby from N1, it took a while to cast my vote but i was simply busy doing rl stuff.
No, i mean the countless posts acid holds with evidence against cora for example. Or how incredible scummy sn0s filter looks if you just don't believe his fakeclaim.
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On February 03 2013 09:44 Acid~ wrote: No, that's what makes me sad. I really believe glurio is scum, which means Corazon is town. I think that's going to be it for me on the mafia games for a while.
I won't blame you for wanting to take a break after this game, but know this:
- This game is completely out of whack. Most games aren't like that. When I did my catching up and saw a 5.5-player D1 (I count many people as not playing or half-playing) with a tainted voting record (abenson), and the whole early-mid D2 mess I was like, what the fuck did I just replace into? And I still feel that way. BTW Hey can I get a refund on my newbie game quota?
- Your logical deduction, when you chose to use it, was excellent. I really hope you don't let this game discourage you from playing in future.
- Aggressive and abrasive is a perfectly valid playstyle to adopt. Just watch yourself and don't overstep the line and become personally nasty. (You're not the only one at fault for that in this game.) Don't worry about offending people -- it's a game, and if they can't take it, that's their problem, not yours.
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Lynch in 2 minutes? Has slayalot voted at all?
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No, Slayalot has not appeared for the longest time. Yes, we could no-lynch and see if slayalot gets modkilled, but I think most of us would rather just end this game now.
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If I'm not mistaken, lynch was supposed to occur 1 hour 25 mins ago?
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glurio, the mafia role cop has been lynched slayalot, the mafia goon has been modkilled for not voting
The Town is victorious.
I'll have the endgame stuff up in a little. Thanks for playing guys.
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Sorry for my terrible hosting
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scum could have won if glurio had voted for cor and slay voted for anyone no?
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GG. I tried! Nah, i had 3 votes on me slay wasn't there so really no chance on winning except i got 2 townies on my side.
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GG everyone
On February 03 2013 11:36 glurio wrote: Thanks for hosting!
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GG guys. Sorry for the borderline posting. I think I need a break. Not from you, but I think I need a more relaxing hobby until work goes back to normal.
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cakepie that is just mean
i love it
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GG friends Cakepie, so glad you replaced. I would've WIFOM'd into a conspiracy lynch on Sn0_Man, I'm sure of it.
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United States22154 Posts
I am sad that I did not get more PMs from townies. T.T
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On February 03 2013 12:32 GMarshal wrote: I am sad that I did not get more PMs from townies. T.T
all my PM's were blue advice
BTW thanks I didn't want to pm you random thanks cuz I figure your inbox is full enough already
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Wowzaz Corazon, you really had a meta-shift this game.
Your normally the polite softly-spoken character; was this morph intentional?
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Mocsta, about halfway down page 13 you can see that Corazon and I combined our powers to form Douchebag Prime, which is clearly the reason town won this game.
Unfortunately it drove Corazon mad and he tried to commit suicide later in the game. I regret this.
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Dunno, people dont have to type harsh words and then press post immediately.
With Acid its different, you could already tell from XXXV he can be like that *if* he chooses. With Corazon, it was unsuspected.
The vitriol seemed genuine, which was uncharacteristic of how I "thought" I knew Corazon.
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On February 03 2013 13:50 Mocsta wrote: Dunno, people dont have to type harsh words and then press post immediately.
Agreed 100%.
Until I see some post-game analysis, this is my biggest lesson learned from this game. I feel my goals would be much better served if I were less emotional, and more deliberate.
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Alright, I'm going to try to explain why I made such stupid mistakes during the game.
When I played XXXIII (and I guess to a lesser extent, XXXIV), I was on Winter Break. I had all the time in the world to refresh the page and read everything through. This time, I didn't have that luxury. I skimmed too much and missed the meat of a lot of posts, which is why I was accused of not listening to people and reading stuff.
D2 was literally the killer for me. First I have to mediate between WB and Acid (WB I'm sorry for all of the mean things I said, it was heat of the moment). I was really pissed that they were basically making it between them two. WB tangled me up in it, and so by attempting to not make it about those two, I kind of did.
Then Zare decides to make a really bad case (I'm sorry, but it was awful) on me, and WB (and someone else) decides to sheep onto it. This was the first event that killed my passion for the game. I was so pissed and frustrated that I went on to make a giant conspiracy post because I could not believe that the town had bought Zare's shitty reasoning. I was planning on sticking to Acid, 100%. I knew that WB was most likely town, and I was right. No one gave me any credit for that when they made later arguments against me. (If I was scum, why would I defend the medic?).
I was pissed at Zare for making such a silly case, and I wrote on why it was his fault (without realizing that defending WB made him look pretty town). In all honesty, the lynch was all his fault. Had he not made a silly case, I would not have switched my vote. Period.
I decided to try and refocus my play by making the whole "I think Sn0 is scum. JK" post, but I realized that it had a really terrible message (as Cake pointed out). If I had more time, I probably would've come up with something clever. After that, I was really deflated, and asked for a break. I came back after 12 hours, and voted for Glurio because I thought he was the scummiest out of Cakepie and Slayalot, and I did truly believe Sn0 was town (dangerous, but we needed to believe it to get anywhere). Sn0 had already put some good reasons out there, and so instead of just repeating him, I just summed it up.
However, Cake blamed me for sheeping, and decided to vote me. I was really pissed that he could not see I was bad town, and that Glurio was bad scum. Acid then came in and said ridiculously mean things that could've been said 20 different ways and still have been nicer (basically, he's a douchebag). I wasn't going to back down because if Cake and Acid could not use logic, I would have kept the vote on myself and basically force the town to lose the game because of it's stupidity.
Fortunately, Sn0 came to the rescue and convinced everyone else what he had convinced me on N2, that he was Cop. That, and Slay getting modkilled, gave me my first win in my worst game ever...
The problem I have is that my first ever game was as scum (and the second I lasted 1 day), so I really don't have the skills to play good town. I just tried to use my actions more than my words, and others decided to jump on me for that.
GG guys, just try to be nicer next time...
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On February 03 2013 15:18 cDgCorazon wrote: I knew that WB was most likely bad town, and I was right.
I'd appreciate it if you'd stop calling me bad. I'm not the one that lynched me for ridiculously bad reasons.
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Thanks.
I'm not saying I'm good, I was just hoping we were done calling each other bad for now . I didn't mean to imply you were bad for lynching me -- it sounds like you understand what it feels like to be (potentially) mislynched for rather silly reasons.
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I really did not want to lynch you. Why did you sheep onto Zare's case then? Since you were town you should not have sheeped onto such a bad case.
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I was kinda delirious from the flu, at the time (I think the stress from the game made me way more sick then I would have been otherwise).
So I just put my trust in my only town read (working on the assumption that due to no double-modkill/warn that scum had indeed made a kill that I had saved). I had already tried to make a cases on a few people but nobody was interested.
Zare stuck his neck out there to make a case on somebody other than me, that wasn't full of OMGUS and random sillyness, so I sheeped him.
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hehe Corazon, sounded like that was cathartic for you to write.
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WIFOM is the second worst thing after OMGUS.
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On February 03 2013 16:07 Mocsta wrote: hehe Corazon, sounded like that was cathartic for you to write.
It turned from explaining why I suck as town to an analysis of why I did everything.
This game was really frustrating...
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On February 03 2013 15:29 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2013 15:18 cDgCorazon wrote: I knew that WB was most likely bad town, and I was right.
I'd appreciate it if you'd stop calling me bad. I'm not the one that lynched me for ridiculously bad reasons.
Not trying to hate, but from my perspective you had a few key scummy points that you may wish to remove from your future play. (that, along with some admittedly awful other reasons, made us lynch you).
1) "emotion hooks". I don't really know what to call this, but in your effort to get town talking, there was a lot of personal stuff that clouded intelligent judgement in favour of emotional perceptions. This is the biggest thing that reminded me of Mocsta, and probably the root of the lynch.
2) Initial Town Claim etc. Again, maybe this is unconventional of me but anybody that tries *that hard* to look townie through direct or near-direct claims looks like they are faking it. Town acts town, Scum claims town.
3) dat medic soft claim. I'm aware you know the issue here, but I had to mention it. To be fair to you, I don't think what you did makes any sense from a scum perspective either but it just sat so wrong.
Obviously in hindsight lynching the uncontested medic claim, when we know there isn't a JK (no RB claim) and we also know that the night-kill was blocked, is nothing short of retarded. It did bring a lot of clarity (for me at least).
Other Thoughts:
I still maintain that scum should have killed me Night 2. Zare/Cora as confirmed town is IMO preferable to 3 confirmed town hinging on a "who is more believable" contest between glurio and I, but I could be wrong. I certainly understood what you did and why you did it.
I'd also like to point out that I legitimately tried to change my vote last-second day 2, but I was a hair too late.
Cakepie played town like an instrument and I kinda feel like his "newbie refund" is pretty unecessary IMO. I cant exactly judge, but I'd say he can play in the "big leagues".
@Cora: I really would have voted for you day 2 if I hadn't night checked you. I'm now too lazy to go through the game for examples, and obviously after everything played out it would have been foolish to lynch you (especially day 3), but day 2 I would have voted you if that was the lynch we decided on.
I also mentioned this earlier (I think) but this setup looks ridiculously town favoured, although I'll admit that the medic save working Night 1 is not gonna be that common. And I guess my cop claim was pretty lucky for me (in the end) because scum would have killed me if I hadn't claimed (funnily enough). Either way, most of town played like shit (shoutout to cake who didn't imo) and we still won. It's a shame Slay got modkilled but we basically knew he was scum anyway.
I'm interested in hearing the analysis of others. Obs QT had me laughing out loud at times, although it wasn't nearly as long as last game. I'd say I've learned a lot already, and I expect more knowledge bombs to drop from this game so thanks all
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Also look at post 80 by stutters in the obs QT. If I understand what he's saying, we were literally less than a minute away from a town victory in D2.
The fact that you left your vote on me D2 is lamentable, Corazon, but I think your earlier contributions helped set the stage for the D2 end developments. You showed me why I was being such an idiot for voting Acid~, for example. And our sparring gave me a town read on you, which was really useful.
The fact that sn0 failed to change his vote by <60 seconds and win the game is far more lamentable than anything you did in this game, IMO.
Yes I was very frustrated at times too, but I also had a lot of fun
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Sno, 1 & 3 you're right. On 2 maybe I was being too tryhard. But town claim means nothing. Actions do speak louder than words, but when the words are "lol i'm so town" they don't mean anything.
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On February 03 2013 16:10 Sn0_Man wrote: 2) Initial Town Claim etc. Again, maybe this is unconventional of me but anybody that tries *that hard* to look townie through direct or near-direct claims looks like they are faking it. Town acts town, Scum claims town.
Dunno about that as a heuristic. If anything, scum are aware that play is frowned upon and are less likely to do it.
I can see plenty of motivations (town or scum) to claim town. Im not saying its a good play; im just saying I can see why people - in particular fresh talent - could see that as a good play.
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*sigh* sniped
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lol Mocsta maybe they were on to something with the doppelganger thing
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The only thing I can be proud of this game is that I did not get voted first...
That basically sums up how I feel about this game.
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yeah, i hate to admit this, but i didnt read the game post day1; not much interplay, and when people were communicating it wasnt progressing things forward, was just having personal attacks - which is a big difference to pressuring and being a pain in the ass.
either way, I think it was marv who said he would be providing some critiques of the game. Should be a worthwhile read.
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On February 03 2013 16:10 Sn0_Man wrote: I cant exactly judge, but I'd say he can play in the "big leagues".
IIRC you aren't actually required to play any newbie games to join most of the regular games (Nomination Mafia has special rules in this regard). I agree with you about cakepie, though.
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Good fight everyone. I didn't have the option to come home and vote yesterday.. But it's kinda of a good thing that it wouldn't have changed the result. Imagine that the score was 2-2 what potential drama.
Thanks for showing this game to me. And for the record. The whole "I didn't know the game would require that much time.. I don't have the time to play the game, so I have to lurk" was genuine. (I would never enjoy winning a game based upon a lie like that)
P.s. Why are you guys playing newbie games ?? It seems to me that you should be playing normal or expert games.
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Scum actions were N1: rolecop Sn0, kill zare. Should have been the other way around. Might have given us a chance in winning.
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For real analysis read the obs and the post game comments of other people but I have nothing productive to say. Slay was obviously scum from his first post and glurio from his day two behaviour, I'm not sure how this was as close as it was but the unnecessary hate spewing from town helped. Keep it civil guys, I have a lot of friends in this community and we flame each other occasionally (frequently) but there is a balance of friendship. You guys need to make friends and not enemies.
I really like coaching newbie games and I feel pretty friendly with this crop of newbies but when I have to keep deleting PMs that I almost sent to townies it's a problem. You guys hurt yourselves way more than necessary.
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It was an interesting game to obs, the end was kinda crazy I almost thought you guys would wifom your way into stupidity. You have to be 100% sure to pull those kinda moves on mylo. That said I did do it before successfully but that is because I was 100% sure of my reads and was confirmed town basically (forced the vote switch with that power) I think it was cake that said even he wasn't convinced of his own case.
For instance Sno knew the game was solved but you can't relax right then you have to convince everyone you know are town why it's right. If you ground it into them there is no possibility for error.
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Either that or claim VT, then Claim RB, then claim VT again hehhee
the good ol' days.
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On February 03 2013 21:48 Mocsta wrote:Either that or claim VT, then Claim RB, then claim VT again hehhee the good ol' days.
HEY I KNEW IT WOULDN'T WORK
But seriously... by that point nothing would work it was just amusing to try. (almost claimed cop as well)
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
Anyway, this game was short and not so sweet. There's not that much to say other than a couple of important things.
First of all: town MVP = warbaby. Yes, that's right. warbaby was the only guy really trying to move discussion forward on Day 1, and made a successful medic save. Top stuff! Somehow he got lynched Day 2. You know, guys, it's way easier to find "scummy" things in someone's posts when they have half the entire posting in the whole game. Was his play perfect? Nope. Was he trying to move town forwards? For sure.
Think about claims logically!
What's the scenario on Day 2? There's been no night-kill. That either means a kill was blocked, or saved, or mafia didn't send in a night-kill. The last one is monumentally unusual and there's no reason to think it. At least, certainly if warbaby was mafia, he wouldn't have forgotten! Further, there were no roleblock claims from anyone. Nor did our hypothetical jailkeeper call out any mafia for not claiming their roleblock. Therefore, 99% there is no jailkeeper. And therefore therefore, there is a medic, and he did save a hit.
So warbaby claimed medic in a pretty terrible way, but it doesn't matter. There's no counter-claim... so you don't lynch him! Sn0_Man was pretty disappointing here. He's clever enough not to have left his vote on warbaby, that was pretty terrible. None of the reasons Sn0, or anyone, had to be SO convinced of warbaby were worth that much. Mainly it was that people didn't like warbaby's play, or it was bad play. That's different from mafia play.
The discussion the following day that went on far too long about the validity of Sn0's claim was pretty odd, given apparently town hadn't learnt their lesson from warbaby's lynch. Mafia were completely in the open, but the amount of hostile townie vs townie infighting was unbelievable. In fact the whole game was townies shouting at each other.
There's one thing I remember - cakepie insisting that cDgCorazon simply not sheep on to glurio. Don't do that, cakepie. The two mafia were completely obvious, you don't *need* to spout off a whole list of stuff why. Just vote him, lynch mafia, be happy. When I'm 100% someone is mafia, I just want people to give me their vote, not some speech.
Mafia had a pretty hard time with the setup. I consider this setup reasonably town-favoured, and with a medic save + a cop check, the game is almost immediately won for town. So I don't have much advice for mafia. Better luck next time, glurio?
One other thing. There seems to be this pervading meta on TL these days (one I tried hard to combat in LIX) that lurkers are coinflips, or hard to read, or admissions of defeat that you can't find the 'active' mafia. Don't do this! As a general rule, town post more, are more involved, are more invested. Once someone has 5-10 posts, don't ever say "well he's not posted enough to get a proper read on him". Not good enough! This game came far too close to town losing while the mafia twiddled their thumbs and watched town burn themselves to the ground without having to do anything. Anyway, the real trick is to find out the lurking mafia from the lurking town. For another day, perhaps...
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Thanks for that post marvel.
I'd like to apologize to everyone for me being so inactive. I actually was lurking a lot this game. After the last game i wanted to contribute much more but rolled scum and often was too scared to post. Because everything i wrote up sounded incredibly scummy or stupid, so i didn't. Since most of town were killing each other anyway. I'll try to make the next game more fun for everyone.
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Thanks marvellosity.
I think Acid~ and cakepie deserve credit for their play late in D2. They figured out what marvellosity is saying about uncountered claims and tried to correct the situation. I appreciate them making this effort after my super terrible claim.
Glurio, if you give it your best effort and aren't afraid to make mistakes, the fun will take care of itself. GG and GLHF in nmm37
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Marv pretty much nailed it, but one other thing. cDg don't ever leave your vote on yourself at deadline. Hadslayalot been there and the town wasn't quick enough in their votes mafia would have won by virtue of having 3 votes first. unlikely but not with the risk.
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guess who asked for the most coaching
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On February 04 2013 13:12 iamperfection wrote: guess who asked for the most coaching
Warbaby?
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On February 04 2013 13:34 cakepie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2013 13:12 iamperfection wrote: guess who asked for the most coaching Warbaby? correct
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On February 04 2013 12:09 Stutters695 wrote: Marv pretty much nailed it, but one other thing. cDg don't ever leave your vote on yourself at deadline. Hadslayalot been there and the town wasn't quick enough in their votes mafia would have won by virtue of having 3 votes first. unlikely but not with the risk.
Oh I knew it was stupid, but that's what the erroneous ways of the town drove me to do.
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Thanks marv for analysis.
My tl;dr postmoretem is basically I think on D3 I was worrying too much about a D4 scenario where it is down to Acid, Cora, slayalot, and myself, trying too hard to play a game that was basically over. Should have just followed my own advice, lynch scummiest player, sit and wait.
About D2:
Although not participating actively D2, I did get to skim the thread at around 6~7 hours before deadline, but had to leave for work commitments at about the time when warbaby started softclaiming and did not have enough time to put together a solid post to state my belief in his innocence. I also thought that people would be able to see that we had to keep him alive, but turns out, I was wrong.
Imagine my horror when I came back, and catching up on pp 20~25 I find all my null and town reads flinging mud at one another while my scumreads got pretty much a free pass to sheep (which they did, increasing my suspicions on them). I wanted to vote with warbaby on glurio or slayalot, but things were moving way too fast -- particularly when Sn0's cop claim came up I knew I had to jump in and post spontaneously rather than try to draft a longer post. Good thing Acid also saw the obvious solution at about the same time, but disappointing we could not get Sn0's switch in time and simply win there.
About N2/D3:
Glurio's posting late D2 and in N2 was incredibly scummy, but Corazon managed to muddy things up again in N2, and that evidently affected zarepath's will post as well. It did throw me off balance for a bit, and without any clear signal from Acid on how he felt about Cora, I wanted to try and coax both Acid and Cora to come out and lay out some cases or reasoning, and earn some town cred to improve townreads on them. In hindsight I completely botched this -- should have remembered that these were the same guys going at each others' throats for a good chunk of the game. Turns out Corazon wasn't really in a state to take pressure anymore, even after taking a short break. Things completely break down again.
Since scum didn't even dare to take the opening that I'd left to make a substantial Sno-Cora case (for us to bash to pieces!), I ended up offering my goggles-fully-on case to see if Acid would be able to spot the inconsistencies, but all I got was Sn0 starting to panic. Once it became clear that Acid wasn't going to say much about it, and corazon had actually left after voting himself, I decided it was time to end the charade. In hindsight I feel that it was a big mistake to actually vote Corazon along with the case, which would have made it look like I actually believed that stuff. (Well no, actually the mistake might have been even making that post to begin with.)
Happily for us glurio goes into super scummy try-hard mode with like 20 min to go, which together with his N2 and early D3 posts really sealed the deal and confirmed him as the correct choice for both Acid and myself.
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I feel like I need to explain my "newbie refund" comment to avoid any misunderstandings. It is not directed at anyone's play, it is a statement about: - how the whole game felt incredibly "WTF" -- this is a confluence of many factors, and I blame no individual for this - how the game was pretty much over just as my schedule allowed me to actually become active, so I technically didn't even have to do all that stuff in N2 and D3 if I didn't want to. But that's par for the course for a replacement I guess. At least I didn't get NK immediately.
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On February 03 2013 15:18 cDgCorazon wrote: However, Cake blamed me for sheeping, and decided to vote me. I was really pissed that he could not see I was bad town, and that Glurio was bad scum. [...] I wasn't going to back down because if Cake and Acid could not use logic, I would have kept the vote on myself and basically force the town to lose the game because of it's stupidity. Believe it or not, I did believe that you had simply botched D2+N2, and I was trying to offer an opportunity for you to reestablish some cred, and pushing you to do it, hoping that you'd be in a better state to play after some rest. But I mismanaged it, my bad. Since I was "fresh" I failed to properly judge how emotionally spent you guys already were.
On February 03 2013 15:18 cDgCorazon wrote: When I played XXXIII (and I guess to a lesser extent, XXXIV), I was on Winter Break. I had all the time in the world to refresh the page and read everything through. This time, I didn't have that luxury. You and me both. I was just fortunate that my schedule opened up, and the fact that I was busy earlier allowed me to stay out of the fray.
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On February 03 2013 16:10 Sn0_Man wrote: I also mentioned this earlier (I think) but this setup looks ridiculously town favoured, although I'll admit that the medic save working Night 1 is not gonna be that common. And I guess my cop claim was pretty lucky for me (in the end) because scum would have killed me if I hadn't claimed (funnily enough). The 2of4 setup is not that imbalanced at all. What happened in this game was actually unusual, but it is best understood as a consequence of a dice roll giving us this particular setup, in combination with the D1 play.
In particular, day 1 was like a 5 or 5.5 player game in which only very few people were highly active. Zare was such an obvious target for scum kill / medic protect; scum rolecop just needed to pick from the remaining actives. Cora and warbaby were both excellent choices for cop check, and Cora, Acid and warbaby were all controversial players inviting N2 soft cases and D2 mislynch target.
On February 03 2013 16:10 Sn0_Man wrote: [..] lynching the uncontested medic claim, [..] It did bring a lot of clarity (for me at least). Clarity for you is useless when the correct thing for scum to do would be to kill you. I had serious concerns about whether I would be able to convince Corazon not to mislynch Acid together with the scum if that scenario had happened, which was why I played up the fact that killing zare would leave us with no confirmed townies. I guess Cora's little deception also helped convince scum to try to play to discredit you -- although it also had negative repercussions for us.
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On February 03 2013 20:14 JacobStrangelove wrote: It was an interesting game to obs, the end was kinda crazy I almost thought you guys would wifom your way into stupidity. You have to be 100% sure to pull those kinda moves on mylo. That said I did do it before successfully but that is because I was 100% sure of my reads and was confirmed town basically (forced the vote switch with that power) I think it was cake that said even he wasn't convinced of his own case. Nah, I knew that it was a load of weak WIFOM, which was why I:- called it a "narrative", not a case.
- emphasized "hypothesis", which meant it should be tested for veracity.
- "[seen through] goggles", implying that serious bias needed to be applied to even make up that story.
My motives are explained earlier. I don't think I managed it well, though.
On February 03 2013 20:14 JacobStrangelove wrote: For instance Sno knew the game was solved but you can't relax right then you have to convince everyone you know are town why it's right. If you ground it into them there is no possibility for error. This, very much, was what I was trying to get out of him (and Cora). At least Sn0 immediately attacked the obvious weak points of the rubbish hypothesis.
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On February 04 2013 08:06 glurio wrote: I'd like to apologize to everyone for me being so inactive. I actually was lurking a lot this game. After the last game i wanted to contribute much more but rolled scum and often was too scared to post. Because everything i wrote up sounded incredibly scummy or stupid, so i didn't. Since most of town were killing each other anyway.
You guys basically threw away a game that town handed to you on a silver platter on early-to-mid D2. When town starts fighting with itself so hard, even better for you to get active and try to sound reasonable, or join the fray and foster more chaos. Choosing to have both scum wagon weakly onto an ongoing mislynch and then disappearing for a large chunk of the day is the last thing you want to do in that situation. I already had both of you pegged for doing that D1, and when I saw the same again on D2 it just stood out way too much, especially in contrast to the acerbic argument that was going on. When I was reading to catch up and saw warbaby's trying to get votes on you guys for "lurking", I wanted to vote with him because not because of the lurking, but because of your scummy voting. However things were really started to explode and under the time pressure of impending deadline I failed to elaborate properly other than stating:
(Basis: voting patterns) Having said that, scum can be really hard to play as a beginner; better luck next time!
On February 04 2013 08:06 glurio wrote: I'll try to make the next game more fun for everyone. Hey guys pre-emptive scumclaim, right here!
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to state the obvious.....
now's the time to go click on the link for the newbie xxxvii thread, type "/in," activate the "post" button, thereby volunteering to play in the next iteration of this fine tradition of games where players of 3 or fewer total games of similar requirements can all play free of the trying and perhaps(?) unhelpful infusion of players of immense experience and/or astounding mental prowess.
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Man cake, you are one seriously complicated guy.
Would love to play scum vs you as town :0
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Hmmm, I think far too logically for this game. If only I thought more psychologically I think I'd do much better (see: cakepie). Ah well 2 games 2 wins without getting myself mislynched is good enough for me.
E: nobody came close to getting what I was trying to say.
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United Kingdom35817 Posts
On February 05 2013 00:21 Sn0_Man wrote: Hmmm, I think far too logically for this game. If only I thought more psychologically I think I'd do much better (see: cakepie). Ah well 2 games 2 wins without getting myself mislynched is good enough for me.
To clarify, this is how I think:
"well glurio is scum because XYZ, better tell that to town"
And I probably should try to think more like:
"well if I can get acid to agree that cora is actually town, then maybe he will make a good case on glurio and build himself some town cred..." If you were being logical, your vote could not possibly have been on warbaby at deadline ^^
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On February 05 2013 00:21 Sn0_Man wrote: Hmmm, I think far too logically for this game. If only I thought more psychologically I think I'd do much better (see: cakepie). Ah well 2 games 2 wins without getting myself mislynched is good enough for me.
To clarify, this is how I think:
"well glurio is scum because XYZ, better tell that to town"
And I probably should try to think more like:
"well if I can get acid to agree that cora is actually town, then maybe he will make a good case on glurio and build himself some town cred..." well i think as town just keep it simple.
This guy is scum because ....... so on and etc then try to get people to vote for him.
I don't think you should be worrying about the town cred of your town reads just try and lynch the scum.
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On February 05 2013 00:21 Sn0_Man wrote:If only I thought more psychologically I think I'd do much better (see: cakepie).
Psychology is a funny thing (it's like chiropracty for the personality), and some of the luminaries in the field were friggin weird dudes. Obviously modern psychology has taken tremendous strides towards being a rigorous, analytical science, but it still focuses entirely on the (unreliable, unknowable) human psyche.
You should trust your gut, and the simple explanation; more than a complex theory built on potentially flawed logic and analysis of other's motives. Especially in a newbie game where the other players may not have a good idea what their motives are, or what the rational move is to make.
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Thanks for all of the analysis, everyone. I think I may have learned more from this game than my other newbie games, to be honest.
And Cora, sorry about the crappy WIFOM case. Honestly I think the main reason I continued to suspect you was because you switched your vote onto the medic claim. But even after all that, glurio and Slay should've looked WAY scummier to me.
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On January 26 2013 19:16 Slayalot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 11:16 warbaby wrote:I'd like to get this flawless town victory started by suggesting some ideas to promote a healthy town atmosphere: - No lurking! Personally I'm not yet decided on Lynch All Lurkers, but it sounds like a decent idea.
- Post succinctly. Don't ramble about your personal life. Don't post a stream of consciousness... coalesce your ideas before you post.
- Don't be needlessly aggressive. Pressuring scum to get information is great, being a jerk for no reason is not.
I'm not sure what to write in these games yet. But as a few people have also said. The above "guidelines" from warbaby is a really good idea. Lurkers will most likely get my vote. And furthermore I think that writing nonsense to fill up the chat (really mean online trick btw) is just as bad as lurking, and I will be watching out for that aswell.
I'd like to dissect this post for you guys. You should have been able to call Slay out as scum as soon as you saw it. Or perhaps you should not have been able to but in the future you should be able to do so.
first off we haveI'm not sure what to write in these games yet which is a scummy thing to say. Townies do not excuse themselves from their posting, they do not try to develop a reason for their posts to be lacking. Townies simply post. A scum thinks 'I have no idea what to say' early day one because the scum agenda is hard to push when there is no direct reason to do so, it is early day one and town is doing scum's work for them.
thisas a few people have also said. The above "guidelines" from warbaby is a really good idea is pure sheep and while a sheep can be townie this player is trying to look townie. Not be townie. An image is an important thing for scum while it doesn't (usually) occur that a townie tries to protect his townieness early day one.
Next is this gem Lurkers will most likely get my vote. where Slay tries to justify a vote before he makes it. He is trying to dodge the responsibility of voting a townie and hasn't even voted yet. Additionally look who he is placing his vote on, is it someone scummy? Someone he thinks is scum? no, simply a lurker.
The last part of the post And furthermore I think that writing nonsense to fill up the chat (really mean online trick btw) is just as bad as lurking, and I will be watching out for that as well[sic] is an attempt to gain town cred, he is posting useless advice which you have no need for. You either know it already or will never know it. This fluff in his own post is exactly what he is talking about as deserving a vote (though not because it is scummy).
So in reading Slay's first post you should have seen his scumminess, he was a newb scum and he showed you that in the above post. I hope this helps, I'm in the middle of nodding off during class so it may not be the most cognizant.
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Thanks prom. A large part of my problem is that day 1 last game multiple townies sounded more or less just like this and they turned out to be nooby lurkers, not scum.
On February 05 2013 05:25 Promethelax wrote:this Show nested quote +as a few people have also said. The above "guidelines" from warbaby is a really good idea is pure sheep and while a sheep can be townie this player is trying to look townie. Not be townie. An image is an important thing for scum while it doesn't (usually) occur that a townie tries to protect his townieness early day one.
I'd like to highlight this because people disagreed when I said something along the lines of "Overt town claims are scummy to me because town doesn't care about their image, but scum care a LOT about their image and try very hard to burnish it". Heavily paraphrased, but the same idea.
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On February 04 2013 16:12 thrawn2112 wrote: to state the obvious.....
now's the time to go click on the link for the newbie xxxvii thread, type "/in," activate the "post" button, thereby volunteering to play in the next iteration of this fine tradition of games where players of 3 or fewer total games of similar requirements can all play free of the trying and perhaps(?) unhelpful infusion of players of immense experience and/or astounding mental prowess. I second this, for not only would I like said game to begin shortly, it will also help me as a newbie to have players in previous games to draw on when performing analysis.
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Sarp N00bs. Here are the 4 golden rules to sealing victory for town !
First rule of newbie club: You are not Mocsta Second rule of newbie club: Don't talk about Mocsta Second last rule of of newbie club Don't try to copy Mocsta Final rule of of newbie club: Don't talk/copy/act like Mocsta
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On February 05 2013 09:34 Mocsta wrote: Final rule of of newbie club: Don't talk/copy/act like Mocsta No seriously, don't do that!
+ Show Spoiler +
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Well; maybe they should. i did talk to my coaches at least!!
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While I think cakepie really nailed it with the I'm a Little Teapot vid, this gif I just ran into on reddit pretty much sums up how I feel about xxxvi (especially the fistpump at the end)
And guys, really. I did not copy Mocsta. Just because Mocsta and I are similar (in that we're both more awesome than you) does not mean I copied him T_T
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I must say, that Little TeaPot joke went right over my head. I still dont get the joke unfortunately
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On February 05 2013 17:16 Mocsta wrote:I must say, that Little TeaPot joke went right over my head. I still dont get the joke unfortunately cakepie's response to corazon's crumb. I think the vid applies fairly well to the whole thread in general, though.
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Got it haha. That is funny.
Dont forget to check out jiexian in normal mini mafia 4 and the krueger effect. That was good too
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Is there a how to breadcrumb guide somewhere? Particularly in newbie games it could be helpful.
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Cakepie linked to a really good example, somewhere in this thread.
Crumbing seems like a pretty advanced technique for a newbie game IMO. Even if you pull it off the other newbies might lynch you for witchcraft.
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My first newbie my coach gave me some techniques but i thought they were hard. Essentially the same as cakepie said.
For what i think is good crumb. Check out newbie 33 end game. Chromatically vs cdgcorazon. Both claim rb. Croma breadceumbs were good
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On February 05 2013 05:25 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2013 19:16 Slayalot wrote:On January 26 2013 11:16 warbaby wrote:I'd like to get this flawless town victory started by suggesting some ideas to promote a healthy town atmosphere: - No lurking! Personally I'm not yet decided on Lynch All Lurkers, but it sounds like a decent idea.
- Post succinctly. Don't ramble about your personal life. Don't post a stream of consciousness... coalesce your ideas before you post.
- Don't be needlessly aggressive. Pressuring scum to get information is great, being a jerk for no reason is not.
I'm not sure what to write in these games yet. But as a few people have also said. The above "guidelines" from warbaby is a really good idea. Lurkers will most likely get my vote. And furthermore I think that writing nonsense to fill up the chat (really mean online trick btw) is just as bad as lurking, and I will be watching out for that aswell. I'd like to dissect this post for you guys. You should have been able to call Slay out as scum as soon as you saw it. Or perhaps you should not have been able to but in the future you should be able to do so. first off we have which is a scummy thing to say. Townies do not excuse themselves from their posting, they do not try to develop a reason for their posts to be lacking. Townies simply post. A scum thinks 'I have no idea what to say' early day one because the scum agenda is hard to push when there is no direct reason to do so, it is early day one and town is doing scum's work for them. this Show nested quote +as a few people have also said. The above "guidelines" from warbaby is a really good idea is pure sheep and while a sheep can be townie this player is trying to look townie. Not be townie. An image is an important thing for scum while it doesn't (usually) occur that a townie tries to protect his townieness early day one. Next is this gem where Slay tries to justify a vote before he makes it. He is trying to dodge the responsibility of voting a townie and hasn't even voted yet. Additionally look who he is placing his vote on, is it someone scummy? Someone he thinks is scum? no, simply a lurker. The last part of the post Show nested quote +And furthermore I think that writing nonsense to fill up the chat (really mean online trick btw) is just as bad as lurking, and I will be watching out for that as well[sic] is an attempt to gain town cred, he is posting useless advice which you have no need for. You either know it already or will never know it. This fluff in his own post is exactly what he is talking about as deserving a vote (though not because it is scummy). So in reading Slay's first post you should have seen his scumminess, he was a newb scum and he showed you that in the above post. I hope this helps, I'm in the middle of nodding off during class so it may not be the most cognizant.
Reading this post made me think of that south park episode where they all loved the smell of their own farts.
The fact that you're all discussing the funny moments and the good plays in this game (after it ended) is cool with me.
In the above-post I was playing the insecure - first timer - newbie townie guy. And in a newbie game, with like 3 or 4 total posts in my teamliquid account life time, this is a viable option. (Also this was a newbie game, with what I believed at the time, was 8 other newbies.)
As it was my first post, I waited several minutes before clicking post, and in that timeframe I asked myself several times if I would have posted the same as town. And the anwser was yes. You can call that a terrible start as a town... I don't care. I didn't get any raised eyebrows after that post, meaning it was credible at the time, in this game.
So when you think you can extract 4 clear mafia signs in my first post.. I'm gonna throw the bullshit card.
Everything looks clear with 20/20 hindsight.
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What slayalot said
Everything is also pretty clear when you know the flips before reading the posts >_>.
Of course, it certainly is helpful to hear more experienced analysis, but I do think it's important to point out that first-timers get some leeway on the "my post is fluff" scale.
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It might not be enough to just lynch you for on the spot but Prom is 100% right. As a newbie you can probably get away with it more but showing up, repeating points without anything to add and then bouncing for hours is worth calling out and inherently scummy.
What stood out to me about him being scum though is related to that post. First after agreeing about no lurking he posts like once a day (although this isn't a sure tell because that happens with people who have never played before and don't realize the time investment.might get overwhelmed).
He said he didn't want to see people spam up the thread, but look at his filter.
His fifth post he calls out Warbaby for attacking acid in a bad way, but says it doesn't make him scum.
Sixth post he says he's less suspicious of warbaby.
Notice he still isn't committing to any reads. This should be a giant red flag. Most importantly though, go check his vote on SkaPunk. Why is he so focused on justifying his vote? Especially re-emphasizing that if Ska clears his name he won't be able to change his vote. Ask yourself what reasons at all are there for a town slay to think Ska would clear his name and why he'd be so concerned with how his vote looks when the town is killing a lurker.
You always want yo look for the motivation rather than just finding something that sounds scummy.
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On February 06 2013 01:57 Slayalot wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2013 05:25 Promethelax wrote:On January 26 2013 19:16 Slayalot wrote:On January 26 2013 11:16 warbaby wrote:I'd like to get this flawless town victory started by suggesting some ideas to promote a healthy town atmosphere: - No lurking! Personally I'm not yet decided on Lynch All Lurkers, but it sounds like a decent idea.
- Post succinctly. Don't ramble about your personal life. Don't post a stream of consciousness... coalesce your ideas before you post.
- Don't be needlessly aggressive. Pressuring scum to get information is great, being a jerk for no reason is not.
I'm not sure what to write in these games yet. But as a few people have also said. The above "guidelines" from warbaby is a really good idea. Lurkers will most likely get my vote. And furthermore I think that writing nonsense to fill up the chat (really mean online trick btw) is just as bad as lurking, and I will be watching out for that aswell. I'd like to dissect this post for you guys. You should have been able to call Slay out as scum as soon as you saw it. Or perhaps you should not have been able to but in the future you should be able to do so. first off we have I'm not sure what to write in these games yet which is a scummy thing to say. Townies do not excuse themselves from their posting, they do not try to develop a reason for their posts to be lacking. Townies simply post. A scum thinks 'I have no idea what to say' early day one because the scum agenda is hard to push when there is no direct reason to do so, it is early day one and town is doing scum's work for them. this as a few people have also said. The above "guidelines" from warbaby is a really good idea is pure sheep and while a sheep can be townie this player is trying to look townie. Not be townie. An image is an important thing for scum while it doesn't (usually) occur that a townie tries to protect his townieness early day one. Next is this gem Lurkers will most likely get my vote. where Slay tries to justify a vote before he makes it. He is trying to dodge the responsibility of voting a townie and hasn't even voted yet. Additionally look who he is placing his vote on, is it someone scummy? Someone he thinks is scum? no, simply a lurker. The last part of the post And furthermore I think that writing nonsense to fill up the chat (really mean online trick btw) is just as bad as lurking, and I will be watching out for that as well[sic] is an attempt to gain town cred, he is posting useless advice which you have no need for. You either know it already or will never know it. This fluff in his own post is exactly what he is talking about as deserving a vote (though not because it is scummy). So in reading Slay's first post you should have seen his scumminess, he was a newb scum and he showed you that in the above post. I hope this helps, I'm in the middle of nodding off during class so it may not be the most cognizant. Reading this post made me think of that south park episode where they all loved the smell of their own farts. The fact that you're all discussing the funny moments and the good plays in this game (after it ended) is cool with me. In the above-post I was playing the insecure - first timer - newbie townie guy. And in a newbie game, with like 3 or 4 total posts in my teamliquid account life time, this is a viable option. (Also this was a newbie game, with what I believed at the time, was 8 other newbies.) As it was my first post, I waited several minutes before clicking post, and in that timeframe I asked myself several times if I would have posted the same as town. And the anwser was yes. You can call that a terrible start as a town... I don't care. I didn't get any raised eyebrows after that post, meaning it was credible at the time, in this game. So when you think you can extract 4 clear mafia signs in my first post.. I'm gonna throw the bullshit card.
Everything looks clear with 20/20 hindsight.
I'm sorry man, you are wrong. I had looked in the scum qt earlier and seen that no one had posted in it (you guys posting in it is the only way for me to know who my scummers are) and I saw your post in the thread and went directly to the qt knowing you were scum and knowing you'd need help. I'm not saying a newbie could have picked it up but after you've played as long as I have you would read that post and know that you, slay, were scum. + Show Spoiler [my post about this in the obs] + PromethelaxPerson was signed in when posted 01-31-2013 07:37 PM ET (US)
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Delete yeah they are, before even looking at scum qt I caught one on his first post. This is a very newbie game but I think people should be able to learn from it pretty well. There are clear scum tells to discuss and obvious ways to improve green play and blue play.
If scum win this it will be pretty shameful for town though. They both outed themselves day one.
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Also slat is saying he would post that as town... This was his first game. He was scum.
I dont think he truly underdtands what he would post as purely town
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P.s. Slay im a weak player knowing for bad reads. And i didnt read the game properly. After night1 in obs qt i said glurio and you/cakepie were scum. Cake was included as he hadnt posted yet.
If i can pick u out ur doing something wrong. Promes points are a good start for improvement
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