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On January 30 2013 08:48 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 08:43 Acid~ wrote:On January 30 2013 08:41 cDgCorazon wrote:On January 30 2013 08:31 cDgCorazon wrote:
TLDR: Shut the fuck up about why WB is scum and give us some other reads if you don't want to die today. And I suggest you don't be an asshole to someone who is making a case against you if you want them to un-vote you somewhere down the road. Why? Is this a fucking popularity contest? If you're too stupid to make your decisions based on logic and just vote/unvote based on who's the nice guy, why the fuck would I want anything to do with you? The problem is, the logic is not there.
It is there. You have not made an analysis of my case to tell me why it was wrong. You have not responded to my valid concerns about warbaby's play. You have just dismissed them saying "meh, I don't buy it" without giving reason. And now you want to discuss other people and let warbaby off the hook?
If I give you a way to earn town cred by investigating other people and then you just act like a child and say "fuck you", I'm not going to un-vote you.
The reason you want to have something to do with me is because I hold a vote. Perhaps there is one vote separating you from being in this game and being dead. Would you rather not be an asshole to people so they might listen to you, or would you rather be an abrasive douche? Which one will be more likely to save your sorry ass?
I don't care about saving my "sorry" ass, I care about finding scum. If I die today and the vote pattern or discussion reveals warbaby's scumbuddy I'm fine with it. I still win if I'm dead.
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On January 30 2013 09:01 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 08:48 cDgCorazon wrote:On January 30 2013 08:43 Acid~ wrote:On January 30 2013 08:41 cDgCorazon wrote:On January 30 2013 08:31 cDgCorazon wrote:
TLDR: Shut the fuck up about why WB is scum and give us some other reads if you don't want to die today. And I suggest you don't be an asshole to someone who is making a case against you if you want them to un-vote you somewhere down the road. Why? Is this a fucking popularity contest? If you're too stupid to make your decisions based on logic and just vote/unvote based on who's the nice guy, why the fuck would I want anything to do with you? The problem is, the logic is not there. It is there. You have not made an analysis of my case to tell me why it was wrong. You have not responded to my valid concerns about warbaby's play. You have just dismissed them saying "meh, I don't buy it" without giving reason. And now you want to discuss other people and let warbaby off the hook? Show nested quote +
If I give you a way to earn town cred by investigating other people and then you just act like a child and say "fuck you", I'm not going to un-vote you.
The reason you want to have something to do with me is because I hold a vote. Perhaps there is one vote separating you from being in this game and being dead. Would you rather not be an asshole to people so they might listen to you, or would you rather be an abrasive douche? Which one will be more likely to save your sorry ass?
I don't care about saving my "sorry" ass, I care about finding scum. If I die today and the vote pattern or discussion reveals warbaby's scumbuddy I'm fine with it. I still win if I'm dead.
You're not listening to me, are you? It's the fact that you refuse to even contemplate investigating the actions of someone else besides WB. If you're town, your play has been next to useless. It doesn't take a genius to call out the faults of Warbaby. However, his contribution to the scum hunt has been 100x more than yours has been. Of course, it's not hard to be 100x more than nothing.
You don't want to die. Dying sucks. You can't trust the town to hunt the targets and use the same arguments as you. You want to be alive personally so you can scumhunt and do your part to help the town win. You can't do that if you're town. Your final contribution to town (if you stay this path) right now is your flip, which would only make the percentages of us getting them the next day go down. We can't take you seriously. You've only tunneled WB. Sure it would put him under the spotlight, but that's not enough to make me lynch him if you flipped town. If you're town, you need to make your contribution greater if you gave us more than one option.
You dodged my argument, and you're playing to the quietness of D1 (going AFK and not letting anyone know. We would understand if you had said something) and now the discussion-filled D2. You've only tunneled WB all game, and have basically contributed nothing to town. You've been asked multiple times to focus on someone other than WB at least temporarily, and you have not done so. If you have the town's best interests in mind, you would have hunted someone other than WB. Your failure to do so, along with the other reasons and you just acting like a general douchebag, are why I'm voting for you. Understand, or do I need to simplify more?
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On January 30 2013 08:55 glurio wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Sorry about me being not here. Had a really busy day. My response to warbaby: + Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 04:13 warbaby wrote:
In list form due to popular demand. (That "popular demand" bit was also a joke, in case you got confused, Sn0. Let me know if you need help tying your shoes or anything.).
Warbaby's case on Glurio
1) Most of glurio's posts are backing up someone else's stated opinion, although he does add some of his own analysis. First he backed me on Acid~, then he backed Sn0_man against me. I think this makes it look like he's not doing his best to think for himself.
1.a) A majority of glurio's posts are backing up sn0_man and tunneling me, but he never explains why he thinks sn0 is town (assuming they are collaborating as town, not scum). Does glurio think sn0_man is town, and what evidence is that based on? I'd like Glurio to respond to this.
2) Glurio's D1 vote on SkaPunk was kind of pointless, and could be seen as bussing Ska. Ska was already set to be lynched when glurio voted Ska, so I'm not sure if glurio was really helping us pressure Ska, or just voting to make sure town Ska got lynched.
3) We're well into D2, and glurio's filter is less than a page long. This level of contribution is not going to hinder other towns from making a read on glurio.
Now that I've made a case on someone other than Sn0 and Acid~, maybe Sn0 and Acid~ can make a case on someone other than me.
They're tunneling me hardcore, it's hypocritical for Sn0 criticize me for tunneling at the same time.
Also, Sn0 I agree with your last paragraph there. That's exactly why I think what Slayalot is doing is not scummy. But Acid~ failed to vote D1. That's against the rules and anti-town. 12 hours is ok like you say. 24 is not. 1) I never backed you on acid. Never backed sn0s case against you, he might have had some similar points, but most of my stuff i found myself. While i did later use some stuff zare and acid brought up, this was much later in the game. 1a) Yes, i actually believe sn0 to be town. His posts look like solid scumhunting. He never went on a personal level, got too emotional. Also he seems to have the same read on you as i do. Scum btw. He was in the last game with mocsta and draws the same parallel between your play and his. 2) For this point i'll first quote you. + Show Spoiler +On January 28 2013 00:39 warbaby wrote:
Also, I'm with Glurio.
##Vote: SkaPunk
SkaPunk has demonstrated that he is in fact capable of using the post box. Maybe if we pressure him some more, he'll actually contribute. Remember my first post: scumread -> scummy lurker -> lurker. He classified as scummy lurker, so i voted for him. 3) You are right, i really should step up and post more. As i see it right now there are two major suspects: Acid and warbaby. ##FoS: warbaby
He doesn't seem to put in the effort to actually read before accusing. He has already multiple posts of "oh well too tired to read clearly" "oh i didn't catch that" "got the time mixed up" as soon as someone calls him out on his mistakes. Then theres the whole mocsta meta kinda thing i think he has going on. Although he copies mocsta not very good, he seems to try. He now trys to earn town cred by suddenly being nice to his no. 1 scumread, sn0. Whilst discrediting acid. Since i'm pretty tired right now ill promise to look at acid tomorrow.
Thank you for this very reasonable response. I'd like to hear your thoughts on people other than Acid~, too.
Apparently I can no longer sleep more than a few hours at a time since starting to play forum Mafia. I'm not sure, but that might be exacerbated by the fact that I'm coming down with the flu. I'll try to step up my contributions in terms of not maing stupid mistakes and errors, but I'm not sure that will happen in the span of 1 game.
On January 30 2013 07:34 Acid~ wrote:
I managed to check the thread before going to bed, am I allowed to do this? Can I please have your permission to live my life how I see fit?
I'm not telling you how to live your life. If you can only post once every 24 hours, that means we have 2 chances per day cycle and 1 per night to actually get input from you. I really don't feel that's appropriate for a mafia game. I will drop this now, since I've already made my point, and you did finally respond.
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In case it's not 100% clear: FoS'ing me based on the case Glurio is making, is reasonable if he is town and trying to pressure me. Voting me immediately on D2 and then taking off for 24h is not reasonable (sorry, I can't drop it -- this just pisses me off too much).
In case it's also not clear, my position is as stands:
##FoS: Acid~
And my vote rests on nobody at the moment.
Zarepath make posts please.
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On January 30 2013 02:31 zarepath wrote:
Warbaby, why are you all over Acid for not contributing more, but not all over Slayalot?
Because Slayalot's contributions are not anti-town, although they are far too sparse. He voted D1 and Acid~ didn't.
I like the few small posts you've made recently, Zarepath. But I want you to make more posts about people other than me and
Acid~.
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Acid. Now that I see you writing more. Please start to create a better town atmosphere.
You are still tunneling warbaby. And you are going emotional in almost every post.
Lets say warbaby isn't scum, but he gets lynched. What have you contributed with??
Someone wrote (forgot who) that warbaby AND acid can't both be scum. You are right!
So In a way. It doesn't make sense for me to have them as #1 and #2. So I've thought about who should replace who. And I wanted to find someone to be #2 instead of acid.
But since my last post - he has done exactly what I told him not to do. He keeps tunneling Warbaby and keeps going emo all the time.
I can't make up my mind if that makes him more scummy or less scummy.
To glurio. You say that you are going to bed, and that you will "look at acid tomorrow"
I'm going to hold you to your word. And that means, that I want to hear your thoughts on him before day 2 ends.
If you don't do this, I will consider it a scummy move.
To zare. We need more of your analysis. I have a strong town read on you so far - and I agree with alot of your posts.
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Zarepath's Review of Corazon's Filter
by Zarepath
[spoiler: I think he's scummy]
On January 28 2013 05:08 cDgCorazon wrote:
Well there's a 1/3rd chance that we lynch the right player if we LAL today. So there's not much to lose on a lurker lynch.
I really hope that all three of them aren't mafia, because if they do not vote and get modkilled (I hope I'm not breaking a rule by saying that) there are some scary players waiting in the replacement section if they're all mafia.
Just theorycrafting. Hosts let me know if I broke any rules by speculating about it.
One of the game's scummiest posts, IMO. Theorycrafting and blatant rule-breaking and no real drive to hunt for scum; this post characterizes Corazon's D1 participation pretty well.
On January 28 2013 10:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Well, the chances of us getting a scum D1 were zero. I'm gonna relook over the day's events and let you all know if I find anything of importance.
I mentioned earlier how this contradicts his earlier post about the chances of finding scum D1. He's obviously not very consistent with his desire/town's ability to find scum.
On January 29 2013 10:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
I'm really sorry that I couldn't post my last thoughts, my phone died and I just got home. However, I would like to make a general answer to the accusations made against me.
Being inconsistent: You're right Zare, my focus just has not been here over the first day. I'm making a promise to all of you now that I'm going to read the thread again before saying anything. No more inconsistencies. If you're expecting a defense to this point, you're not gonna get one. I've been wasting my time.
Voting for Ska: At the point in time I was going to vote for Ska, it was already going to be him lynched, with 3 people voting for him who wouldn't be able to change their votes before the deadline. I voted Abenson to make sure all of the lurkers knew that we would not allow for lurking. Once I was notified that Abenson didn't exist, I just decided to consolidate our vote for Ska. Glurio's comment that something in my post was fishy (without actually saying which part was fishy) is scummy in itself, trying to distract the town by getting them to find a deeper meaning in everything that I post.
Not knowing set-up/being ignorant: I've already stated this, it's a massive WIFOM bomb. Stop distracting town with it.
Me not playing to my "usual standard" (whatever that is): In the past two games I've played, I spent 6 Days as scum and 1 day as town. So perhaps me not playing like I did in XXXIII means I'm town?
Now to the scumhunting part. The problem I'm having with Acid right now is that all he has done the whole game is tunneled Warbaby. I know he's going after his scum read, but most of his posts have been in his argument with WB and attacking WB. I made an argument against him asking for a reply, and it has completely ignored in his pursuit to have Warbaby lynched at all costs. Ignoring an argument is an automatic FoS for me. If he was town, why would he ignore an argument made against him. If he is truly innocent, he can explain his behavior, not ignore me and hope it blows over.
FoS: Acid~
I'm gonna go through the thread again just to make sure I didn't miss anything.
Last note for this long post: Zare, I'm glad you got your RL stuff out of the way. Your case against me was the most solid of the multiple arguments (I really can't call any of the rest cases) against me. It's going a long way for me to believe that you are town. Keep it up.
In his long post, he calls Glurio, Acid, and whoever it is he calls out for the "massive WIFOM bomb" of saying it's scummy that he didn't know the setup, was ignorant, etc; scummy. At the end, he goes way out of his way to compliment the person who put a case on him; "Keep it up buddy! You're helping town so much by analyzing me! Good work!" This smells a little of overcompensation, a Congratulating the Medic deal. Town would not go out of their way to compliment the people going after them; town doesn't want to waste town's time by being analyzed, they want to go after scum. But Corazon doesn't really attempt to confirm his towniness except by throwing barbs at three different people and FoSing Acid for "tunneling" the game's scummiest player, warbaby.
Here's a thing about tunneling, people -- it's only tunneling if your analysis is loaded with confirmation bias and you refuse to see evidence in anything else. If you have a scum read on someone, it's totally appropriate to pressure that person continually for more information. If you're sure they'll be lynched, it's STILL appropriate to pressure them for more information because they're going to be dead soon and unable to give up any more details. Let's quit using the term "tunneling" to mean anytime somebody focuses on a single player, okay? It's more about being blind to other possibilities and having confirmation bias than it is focusing on a single player.
Cora requotes himself, then quotes me to say I summed it up nicely, then puts some pressure on WB, calling him out along with the rest of us, which does seem fairly town but he did put the FoS on Acid first.
But in his continual pressure on WB, he doesn't make a case for his scumminess; he just pleads with him to stop dragging town down. It's his "execution" that's the problem, not the case itself. He's doing work here to suggest that WB is simply bad town, not active scum.
When it comes down to his ultimatum on the fact that it's between Acid and WB, he chooses Acid because WB is the town jester, a persona that Cora has crafted for him over all of his facetious posts ("extra, extra!").
He requotes Sn0 without any additional content.
He condemns Acid so severely for tunneling WB -- in fact, it's the core of his case on him. But I don't see a cohesive scum case or clear direction in Corazon's play, or even a modicum of contemplation, or for seeking relevant new information.
Corazon looks scummy to me.
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As promised my thoughts on acid:
Most of his recent posts are discrediting his attackers (cora/warbaby). He likes to lash out and tries to draw reactions with it. And it works.
His case against warbaby seems solid, although it wasn't warbabys math that was off, it was coras.
He does get quite emotional in his defense. I do find his reason for not giving a second scum candidate off quite shady, though. You could just tell us what would change in case he flips what.
His prime target is warbaby always was and he really wants to kill him. Which is in my opinion totally understandable.
It's also pretty obvious who his second scumread is at the moment. I'll quote it for convenience sake:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 08:23 Acid~ wrote:
Corazon thinks warbaby's unwillingness to unvote me is a town tell. He also thinks the same thing from me is a scum tell. Why is that, in your opinion?
+ Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 08:29 Acid~ wrote:
My goal was to get people talking about the case, that's what people do. But, I have to give you credit: your conveniently timed "argument" with Corazon managed to pull attention away from the case and bury it behind five pages of useless bullshit.
Right now he seems to have the same read as myself on both those guys.
So all in all i've got a town read on acid. His unwillingness to unvote or budge an inch on his opinion gives me a town vibe.
For the unlikely event that warbaby actually flips town the spotlight will no doubt switch to himself.
Now I wanna change to a different person: zarepath.
What I found really odd was that his contributions really are much different from the last game we played, he used to do really long cases or lists so far we haven’t seen anything like this apart from a minor case on cora N1 he really didn’t contribute much so far. If it’s due to RL obligations or not I don’t know. I just wanna highlight it in hope he’ll contribute more to it.
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On January 30 2013 23:53 zarepath wrote:Zarepath's Review of Corazon's Filterby Zarepath+ Show Spoiler +On January 28 2013 05:08 cDgCorazon wrote:
Well there's a 1/3rd chance that we lynch the right player if we LAL today. So there's not much to lose on a lurker lynch.
I really hope that all three of them aren't mafia, because if they do not vote and get modkilled (I hope I'm not breaking a rule by saying that) there are some scary players waiting in the replacement section if they're all mafia.
Just theorycrafting. Hosts let me know if I broke any rules by speculating about it.
One of the game's scummiest posts, IMO. Theorycrafting and blatant rule-breaking and no real drive to hunt for scum; this post characterizes Corazon's D1 participation pretty well. On January 28 2013 10:06 cDgCorazon wrote:
Well, the chances of us getting a scum D1 were zero. I'm gonna relook over the day's events and let you all know if I find anything of importance. I mentioned earlier how this contradicts his earlier post about the chances of finding scum D1. He's obviously not very consistent with his desire/town's ability to find scum. On January 29 2013 10:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
I'm really sorry that I couldn't post my last thoughts, my phone died and I just got home. However, I would like to make a general answer to the accusations made against me.
Being inconsistent: You're right Zare, my focus just has not been here over the first day. I'm making a promise to all of you now that I'm going to read the thread again before saying anything. No more inconsistencies. If you're expecting a defense to this point, you're not gonna get one. I've been wasting my time.
Voting for Ska: At the point in time I was going to vote for Ska, it was already going to be him lynched, with 3 people voting for him who wouldn't be able to change their votes before the deadline. I voted Abenson to make sure all of the lurkers knew that we would not allow for lurking. Once I was notified that Abenson didn't exist, I just decided to consolidate our vote for Ska. Glurio's comment that something in my post was fishy (without actually saying which part was fishy) is scummy in itself, trying to distract the town by getting them to find a deeper meaning in everything that I post.
Not knowing set-up/being ignorant: I've already stated this, it's a massive WIFOM bomb. Stop distracting town with it.
Me not playing to my "usual standard" (whatever that is): In the past two games I've played, I spent 6 Days as scum and 1 day as town. So perhaps me not playing like I did in XXXIII means I'm town?
Now to the scumhunting part. The problem I'm having with Acid right now is that all he has done the whole game is tunneled Warbaby. I know he's going after his scum read, but most of his posts have been in his argument with WB and attacking WB. I made an argument against him asking for a reply, and it has completely ignored in his pursuit to have Warbaby lynched at all costs. Ignoring an argument is an automatic FoS for me. If he was town, why would he ignore an argument made against him. If he is truly innocent, he can explain his behavior, not ignore me and hope it blows over.
FoS: Acid~
I'm gonna go through the thread again just to make sure I didn't miss anything.
Last note for this long post: Zare, I'm glad you got your RL stuff out of the way. Your case against me was the most solid of the multiple arguments (I really can't call any of the rest cases) against me. It's going a long way for me to believe that you are town. Keep it up. In his long post, he calls Glurio, Acid, and whoever it is he calls out for the "massive WIFOM bomb" of saying it's scummy that he didn't know the setup, was ignorant, etc; scummy. At the end, he goes way out of his way to compliment the person who put a case on him; "Keep it up buddy! You're helping town so much by analyzing me! Good work!" This smells a little of overcompensation, a Congratulating the Medic deal. Town would not go out of their way to compliment the people going after them; town doesn't want to waste town's time by being analyzed, they want to go after scum. But Corazon doesn't really attempt to confirm his towniness except by throwing barbs at three different people and FoSing Acid for "tunneling" the game's scummiest player, warbaby. Here's a thing about tunneling, people -- it's only tunneling if your analysis is loaded with confirmation bias and you refuse to see evidence in anything else. If you have a scum read on someone, it's totally appropriate to pressure that person continually for more information. If you're sure they'll be lynched, it's STILL appropriate to pressure them for more information because they're going to be dead soon and unable to give up any more details. Let's quit using the term "tunneling" to mean anytime somebody focuses on a single player, okay? It's more about being blind to other possibilities and having confirmation bias than it is focusing on a single player. Cora requotes himself, then quotes me to say I summed it up nicely, then puts some pressure on WB, calling him out along with the rest of us, which does seem fairly town but he did put the FoS on Acid first. But in his continual pressure on WB, he doesn't make a case for his scumminess; he just pleads with him to stop dragging town down. It's his "execution" that's the problem, not the case itself. He's doing work here to suggest that WB is simply bad town, not active scum. When it comes down to his ultimatum on the fact that it's between Acid and WB, he chooses Acid because WB is the town jester, a persona that Cora has crafted for him over all of his facetious posts ("extra, extra!"). He requotes Sn0 without any additional content. He condemns Acid so severely for tunneling WB -- in fact, it's the core of his case on him. But I don't see a cohesive scum case or clear direction in Corazon's play, or even a modicum of contemplation, or for seeking relevant new information. Corazon looks scummy to me.
Pro Tip: We aren't lynching Cora today.
To be honest, his day 1/ night 1 play didn't impress me much either (pretty sure I wrote a post about that somewhere), but his more recent interactions are enough for me to give him a ride today.
@Acid: I know you can be effective, you know I don't mind a bit of vitriol in the arguments, but can you please be semi-reasonable. I really want to lynch warbaby right now, but you are begging me to call that off and nail you with your play. I get that you can't play all the time, I'm not hating your for your missed vote, but please be aware that excuses can be made up by scum to give them a free-ride for minimal contribution (which is why I'm still not sold on slayalot). This again is something that looks bad for you.
Also from the OP:
I'm going to warn you if you're being excessively unpleasant towards other players
Lets try to avoid that shall we?
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Zarepath's Review of warbaby's Filter
by Zarepath
[spoiler: he also looks scummy, but moreso imo]
A lot has been said about warbaby, much of which I agree with. He was wildly emotional, defensive, and irrational for the first half of D2, and his most level-headed tone was used to ask if the medic should role-claim (on day 2???). Here are a few other posts from his filter that I believe show a few things that add to the overall case for WB's scumminess:
On January 29 2013 15:30 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 14:09 cDgCorazon wrote:By voting, you are saying you want to lynch him today. Saying it 10 minutes into D2 is throwing in the towel. OK, fine. I can't come up with any reason you're wrong about this. I don't currently think Zare is scum, and he's telling me to do this as well. ##Unvote: Acid~
##FoS: Acid~
By my own logic I find Acid~ scummier than Sn0man, currently. So I'm switching my middle finger of suspicion to Acid~.
This does not seem like a very town-motivated thing to do. Town's number one role is to lynch scum, and their vote is their most powerful tool. A townie with a case on someone as being scum should have enough confidence in their case that they don't unvote just because somebody else thinks it's a bad policy; they defend their case and develop it throughout the day. I don't see a problem with voting early D2 as long as the case gets developed; it certainly puts pressure on scum if they're a recipient of an early vote.
(Note that he claims he's doing it because I told him to; if I recall correctly, my main concern was that he built literally zero case before voting Acid back, not that I think he should unvote.)
However, scum is paranoid about being seen as a Member of the Town, and is more likely to buckle under policy pressure instead of sticking to their guns so that they can be seen as part of the group.
More scummy in this post is something that he also did on Day 1 -- couch his decisions with town reads on other people. He's not just unvoting because Corazon thinks it's bad policy, but because Zarepath also told him to, and Zarepath is town. I don't know how much I like someone constantly doing things just because their town reads tell them to do so. Town has no reason to entrust their analysis and activity to ANYONE else, even if they think they're town; and they certainly have no reason to go out of their way to justify their actions by saying "Look, this guy told me to, and he's town." Scum, however, would not mind creating associations with players that most people have a town read on (I get the sense that most people have a town read on me).
On Day 1, this was how he justified jumping off of the inevitable Skapunk lynch -- scum would want to bandwagon it, therefore anyone not voting for Skapunk is NOT scum, therefore if he votes with them he's not voting with scum. Again, he's justifying his decisions by relying on the towniness of others, making all of his faults and decisions not just HIS faults and decisions, but a product of other players' decisions.
In total, warbaby seems oddly concerned with how others in town perceive him and, while active, doesn't contribute to a pro-town environment.
On January 30 2013 04:15 warbaby wrote:
EBWOP: Glurio's level of contribution is ONLY going to hinder other towns from making a read on glurio.
This could be a scum slip -- "other towns" implies that Glurio is town, but it could be argued that that implication is only within the hypothetical scenario that warbaby is exploring wherein Glurio needs to prove that he's town. Null. Just thought I'd bring this up.
On January 30 2013 14:41 warbaby wrote:
In case it's not 100% clear: FoS'ing me based on the case Glurio is making, is reasonable if he is town and trying to pressure me. Voting me immediately on D2 and then taking off for 24h is not reasonable (sorry, I can't drop it -- this just pisses me off too much).
In case it's also not clear, my position is as stands:
##FoS: Acid~
And my vote rests on nobody at the moment.
Zarepath make posts please.
This is one of the latest posts by warbaby. He is concerned with illustrating his current status. Telling others to make posts is an easy "town-motivated" thing for scum to do, and I like to think that town would ideally do it with a little more nuance (specific questions, reasons why this person in particular should post more, suspicious things they need to answer for, certain cases that need to be looked into, etc.).
I still have issues with warbaby's core case on Acid being based around his "outrage" at the fact that Acid has 24-hr work commitments. It's the point that I remember most from all of warbaby's analysis of him. What happened to his AFKing/cakepie concern, that cakepie would need to post some good stuff D2 or else we should lynch him? No, now he's just too "pissed off" at Acid.
And really, this doesn't even get into his frantic leap off of the Skapunk train D1. I think that warbaby is the best lynch candidate we have right now.
[b]##Vote: warbaby
Also, a reminder to everyone to avoid association cases (I think I may have a few association cases in my Corazon read, actually) until after the flip. Individual reads are more valuable now, and I'll continue to do some individual reads through more filter work as I have time between tasks at work.
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Excellent. You may wish to fix your vote though as you broke the bold tag.
I agree though, warbaby's primary goal through all the posts he makes seems to be looking like he is town, not actually contributing to town. Sure, he has some good points, but everything he does just seems so... contrived to look townie.
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Alright Zare, since you obviously don't like the fact that I'm enjoying your scum hunting (it's good that you're hunting other people and exploring other options for the town), I won't "Congratulate the Medic" on this one.
I don't believe I contradicted myself when I said that 33% (it's actually 2/9, which I believe is around 22%. Don't quote me on that though) was still a low percentage. I'm guessing you believe differently. If we are going to argue about that, I think it would be pretty pointless. Splitting hairs is a distraction.
The points I made at the end of my first rebuttal were mostly out of annoyance that out of all of the comments made against me in that short span. Glurio and Sn0 basically made comments that were massive WIFOM bombs.
Glurio:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 29 2013 02:46 glurio wrote:and i really didn't like the vote post of cora especially the last sentence: Show nested quote +On January 28 2013 03:59 cDgCorazon wrote:
I'll cover that base WB.
##Vote: Abenson
If these are the three mafia their coach must be ridiculously annoyed. Can't put my finger on it, but it really sounds scummy to me. I'll try to post more after cooking and eating dinner.
Sn0:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 29 2013 00:30 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'd like to say that Cora's overt comments about 3 scum seem pretty dirty. The setup explicitly says that there are always 2 mafia, and Cora's last game (NMM XXXIV) was another 9 person 2-scum setup much like this one. Cora also co-hosted NMM 35 so he should understand the setup better than that. It sounds a lot to me like "Oh I can't possibly be scum, scum would know how many scum there are". Of course, I may be giving him too much credit, that plan actually sounds pretty hard to come up with on your own, but I suppose scum have a QT for ideas like that.
I'd also like to point out that Sn0 basically called me scum:
...but I suppose scum have a QT for ideas like that.
Without pursuing it further. Weird...
Anyways, I digress. The choice is obviously between Warbaby and Acid today. I've already said all of this before. However, I guess I will add a new part to my decision that I guess wasn't very obvious before.
My decision between Warbaby and Acid did not put the merit of the cases into effect. In all honesty, both cases are terrible. They don't need to be good: Both players have acted stupidly scummy over the course of the game. That part is not deniable. We need to pick lynch who we think is scum and not lynch who we think is bad town.
Why I'm voting for Acid:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 07:57 cDgCorazon wrote:
On the other hand, Acid has been ridiculously dodgy the entire game. In a town where inactivity has been a problem, he has been part of the inactivity problem. He dodges my argument, and only after he is pressured about it does he say that it wasn't relevant. The timing of his defense is ridiculously shady, almost 2 days after the original pressure. If he wanted to call my argument out as BS, he should've done so at his first opportunity, not chosen to ignore it. Telling me that my idea is stupid is how town bounces ideas off of each other and becomes more efficient as a scumhunting machine. By ignoring it until pressured, it's basically him saying that he's dodging it still.
The final straw is the voting history. Scum do not care who gets voted off as long as it's not one of them. WB voted, Acid didn't. There's no way Acid could not have spared 5 minutes to vote, even if he knew he was going to be working for a long shift. I don't buy the work stuff. At least jump on a wagon or vote no-lynch if you don't have time to vote. It's not being busy, it's disinterest in the vote. It's scummy.
-He dodged my argument
-Only called it BS when I called him out for dodging me (if he was town he would have said it was BS a lot earlier)
-He has been disinterested in the voting (and which alignment cares more about the lynch?)
-He has been tunneling, both by my definition and by Zare's
-Refuses to give us any other scum reads and insists on us lynching WB
Why I'm not voting for Warbaby:
+ Show Spoiler +Warbaby's erratic behavior made me very suspicious at first, I must admit. However, his brashness and unwilling to unvote Acid (even though voting for him early is a terrible idea) actually gave me a better feeling that he was town. The biggest thing that a scum has to worry about is their reputation with the rest of the town. A scum knows that he has to make sure no one else thinks he is scum so he can push his agenda forward and not be under suspicion. A town player would not care how others think about them because he knows he is town and has nothing to hide. Warbaby's behavior has seemed to follow these ideals. If he was scum, he would've listened to me and halted his aggression way before he did. The FoS definitely would've been enough for him to listen to me. Scum are afraid of getting lynched, so even threatening a vote would be enough to shut a scum down. Since it didn't phase WB, I believe that he is town not being afraid of his image in order to get the scum lynched. On top of that, scum would not tunnel a town so hard because once the town flipped, the mislynch would be on the scum's head and the scum would be the next likely to go.
-Not caring about his image, refused to listen to me even after he got FoS'd
-Has given us his other reads
-Has shown a willingness to look at other players
The only thing going for both of then is that they are tunneling so hard that if the other person flips town they will be lynched. I'm not so sure scum is willing to do that.
The core of my case is not because Acid is tunneling WB. I've said this before. I asked both of them that if they were town, they wouldn't distract us with this nonsense 10 minutes into D2. WB obliged, but Acid insists on not looking at any other scum possibilities.
The rest of your case goes on to say that I've made scummy posts my quoting others. Would you rather I just repeat what they say?
The problem is neither of them is going after scum 2.0. None of us, really. You know why that is? It is because WB and Acid basically stole the spotlight D2 with their little fight. Do you see what the problem is with it now? We're spending all of D2 deciding between WB and Acid instead of spending time actually scum hunting. This is why I asked both of them to unvote and pursue other leads. Now do you see this scum hunt is distracting town, and why I tried to stop it so we could pursue other leads? That request was not biased towards WB or Acid, it's biased towards town. I warned that this would basically take over D2, and it has. Good job guys.
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On January 31 2013 00:24 zarepath wrote:
More scummy in this post is something that he also did on Day 1 -- couch his decisions with town reads on other people. He's not just unvoting because Corazon thinks it's bad policy, but because Zarepath also told him to, and Zarepath is town.
I just want to highlight the third-person town claim by Zare.
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On January 31 2013 00:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
I warned that this would basically take over D2, and it has. Good job guys.
If we lynch scum day 2, then it was a very worthwhile day... 
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On January 31 2013 00:40 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 00:24 zarepath wrote:
More scummy in this post is something that he also did on Day 1 -- couch his decisions with town reads on other people. He's not just unvoting because Corazon thinks it's bad policy, but because Zarepath also told him to, and Zarepath is town.
I just want to highlight the third-person town claim by Zare.
Not really, he was outlining the decision process and specifying that WB's decision hinged on WB's perception of zare as town
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See, I don't think that a scum warbaby would have backed off of Acid and said, "You know what, you're right, guys -- this is hurting town. I'm so pro-town so I'll stop." I think that he's presented us an OMGUS, not a daring case he's sticking his neck out for, but one that can easily be chalked up to "well, he's a crappy townie anyway." And Acid is kind of an easy target in that he knows that Acid didn't vote Day 1, and will be gone for the next 24 hours (when he'll be under potential scrutiny).
Cora is right that we do need to look outside of just Acid/warbaby, and I think that cakepie (I honestly forgot the name, it's not in the filters in the OP), glurio, and Slayalot are low enough in contribution that they deserve some scrutiny. Cakepie especially I'm interested in hearing more from.
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Also, Cora, you predicted that we would become too focused on Acid/warbaby, and yet you yourself entangled DRAMATICALLY with warbaby with sarcasm and facetiousness. And voted for Acid. So, pot and kettle.
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On January 31 2013 00:37 cDgCorazon wrote:Why I'm not voting for Warbaby: + Show Spoiler +Warbaby's erratic behavior made me very suspicious at first, I must admit. However, his brashness and unwilling to unvote Acid (even though voting for him early is a terrible idea) actually gave me a better feeling that he was town. The biggest thing that a scum has to worry about is their reputation with the rest of the town. A scum knows that he has to make sure no one else thinks he is scum so he can push his agenda forward and not be under suspicion. A town player would not care how others think about them because he knows he is town and has nothing to hide. Warbaby's behavior has seemed to follow these ideals. If he was scum, he would've listened to me and halted his aggression way before he did. The FoS definitely would've been enough for him to listen to me. Scum are afraid of getting lynched, so even threatening a vote would be enough to shut a scum down. Since it didn't phase WB, I believe that he is town not being afraid of his image in order to get the scum lynched. On top of that, scum would not tunnel a town so hard because once the town flipped, the mislynch would be on the scum's head and the scum would be the next likely to go.
I'd like to quote a few things from acid:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 09:01 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 08:48 cDgCorazon wrote:On January 30 2013 08:43 Acid~ wrote:On January 30 2013 08:41 cDgCorazon wrote:On January 30 2013 08:31 cDgCorazon wrote:
TLDR: Shut the fuck up about why WB is scum and give us some other reads if you don't want to die today. And I suggest you don't be an asshole to someone who is making a case against you if you want them to un-vote you somewhere down the road. Why? Is this a fucking popularity contest? If you're too stupid to make your decisions based on logic and just vote/unvote based on who's the nice guy, why the fuck would I want anything to do with you? The problem is, the logic is not there. It is there. You have not made an analysis of my case to tell me why it was wrong. You have not responded to my valid concerns about warbaby's play. You have just dismissed them saying "meh, I don't buy it" without giving reason. And now you want to discuss other people and let warbaby off the hook? Show nested quote +
If I give you a way to earn town cred by investigating other people and then you just act like a child and say "fuck you", I'm not going to un-vote you.
The reason you want to have something to do with me is because I hold a vote. Perhaps there is one vote separating you from being in this game and being dead. Would you rather not be an asshole to people so they might listen to you, or would you rather be an abrasive douche? Which one will be more likely to save your sorry ass?
I don't care about saving my "sorry" ass, I care about finding scum. If I die today and the vote pattern or discussion reveals warbaby's scumbuddy I'm fine with it. I still win if I'm dead.
And
+ Show Spoiler +On January 30 2013 08:23 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 07:43 Sn0_Man wrote:
@Acid: There are 2 scum this game. Who is scum 2.0? we are well aware of your prime scum read, who is asleep atm anyways. Then where are we on the lynching of the first scum? I'm not going to get off warbaby's case until he flips or someone presents a stronger case on someone else. I have other scumreads but they're not as strong. There's no value in discussing them right now. IF I'm right about warbaby then I have a solid lead on the second one. If I'm wrong, then I have a different lead. Just going to leave this here for you: Corazon thinks warbaby's unwillingness to unvote me is a town tell. He also thinks the same thing from me is a scum tell. Why is that, in your opinion?
To me it seems the complete reasoning why not voting for warbaby fits acid pretty good too.
He's pushing his case and vote and doesn't care what the town thinks of him ("not a popularity contest").
And now quoting yourself: "On top of that, scum would not tunnel a town so hard because once the town flipped, the mislynch would be on the scum's head and the scum would be the next likely to go."
Fits perfectly too.
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Going through some more filters, and it occurs to me that zarepath has recieved an unbelievably easy free ride without posting much. I mean, yes he just posted 2 big analysis posts but one is on warbaby (easy target we all want to lynch atm anyways) and one is a pretty weak case on Cora (who is pretty clearly town imo).
I'm not saying he is scum, but if he is he is having the easiest game of his life, while every so often popping in to toss out an easy post without any real goal. There isn't any fire in him to kill scum.
His filter is decently short, if anybody wants to go have a quick read.
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EPT
