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hehheethe good ol' days.
Newbie Mini Mafia XXXVI - Page 41
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
hehheethe good ol' days. | ||
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JacobStrangelove
Australia1572 Posts
On February 03 2013 21:48 Mocsta wrote: Either that or claim VT, then Claim RB, then claim VT again hehheethe good ol' days. HEY I KNEW IT WOULDN'T WORK  But seriously... by that point nothing would work it was just amusing to try. (almost claimed cop as well) | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
First of all: town MVP = warbaby. Yes, that's right. warbaby was the only guy really trying to move discussion forward on Day 1, and made a successful medic save. Top stuff! Somehow he got lynched Day 2. You know, guys, it's way easier to find "scummy" things in someone's posts when they have half the entire posting in the whole game. Was his play perfect? Nope. Was he trying to move town forwards? For sure. Think about claims logically! What's the scenario on Day 2? There's been no night-kill. That either means a kill was blocked, or saved, or mafia didn't send in a night-kill. The last one is monumentally unusual and there's no reason to think it. At least, certainly if warbaby was mafia, he wouldn't have forgotten! Further, there were no roleblock claims from anyone. Nor did our hypothetical jailkeeper call out any mafia for not claiming their roleblock. Therefore, 99% there is no jailkeeper. And therefore therefore, there is a medic, and he did save a hit. So warbaby claimed medic in a pretty terrible way, but it doesn't matter. There's no counter-claim... so you don't lynch him! Sn0_Man was pretty disappointing here. He's clever enough not to have left his vote on warbaby, that was pretty terrible. None of the reasons Sn0, or anyone, had to be SO convinced of warbaby were worth that much. Mainly it was that people didn't like warbaby's play, or it was bad play. That's different from mafia play. The discussion the following day that went on far too long about the validity of Sn0's claim was pretty odd, given apparently town hadn't learnt their lesson from warbaby's lynch. Mafia were completely in the open, but the amount of hostile townie vs townie infighting was unbelievable. In fact the whole game was townies shouting at each other. There's one thing I remember - cakepie insisting that cDgCorazon simply not sheep on to glurio. Don't do that, cakepie. The two mafia were completely obvious, you don't *need* to spout off a whole list of stuff why. Just vote him, lynch mafia, be happy. When I'm 100% someone is mafia, I just want people to give me their vote, not some speech. Mafia had a pretty hard time with the setup. I consider this setup reasonably town-favoured, and with a medic save + a cop check, the game is almost immediately won for town. So I don't have much advice for mafia. Better luck next time, glurio? One other thing. There seems to be this pervading meta on TL these days (one I tried hard to combat in LIX) that lurkers are coinflips, or hard to read, or admissions of defeat that you can't find the 'active' mafia. Don't do this! As a general rule, town post more, are more involved, are more invested. Once someone has 5-10 posts, don't ever say "well he's not posted enough to get a proper read on him". Not good enough! This game came far too close to town losing while the mafia twiddled their thumbs and watched town burn themselves to the ground without having to do anything. Anyway, the real trick is to find out the lurking mafia from the lurking town. For another day, perhaps... | ||
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glurio
Germany597 Posts
I'd like to apologize to everyone for me being so inactive. I actually was lurking a lot this game. After the last game i wanted to contribute much more but rolled scum and often was too scared to post. Because everything i wrote up sounded incredibly scummy or stupid, so i didn't. Since most of town were killing each other anyway. I'll try to make the next game more fun for everyone. | ||
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warbaby
United States510 Posts
I think Acid~ and cakepie deserve credit for their play late in D2. They figured out what marvellosity is saying about uncountered claims and tried to correct the situation. I appreciate them making this effort after my super terrible claim. Glurio, if you give it your best effort and aren't afraid to make mistakes, the fun will take care of itself. GG and GLHF in nmm37 | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
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iamperfection
United States9634 Posts
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cakepie
985 Posts
On February 04 2013 13:12 iamperfection wrote: guess who asked for the most coaching Warbaby? | ||
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iamperfection
United States9634 Posts
correct | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 04 2013 12:09 Stutters695 wrote: Marv pretty much nailed it, but one other thing. cDg don't ever leave your vote on yourself at deadline. Hadslayalot been there and the town wasn't quick enough in their votes mafia would have won by virtue of having 3 votes first. unlikely but not with the risk. Oh I knew it was stupid, but that's what the erroneous ways of the town drove me to do. | ||
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cakepie
985 Posts
My tl;dr postmoretem is basically I think on D3 I was worrying too much about a D4 scenario where it is down to Acid, Cora, slayalot, and myself, trying too hard to play a game that was basically over. Should have just followed my own advice, lynch scummiest player, sit and wait. About D2: Although not participating actively D2, I did get to skim the thread at around 6~7 hours before deadline, but had to leave for work commitments at about the time when warbaby started softclaiming and did not have enough time to put together a solid post to state my belief in his innocence. I also thought that people would be able to see that we had to keep him alive, but turns out, I was wrong. Imagine my horror when I came back, and catching up on pp 20~25 I find all my null and town reads flinging mud at one another while my scumreads got pretty much a free pass to sheep (which they did, increasing my suspicions on them). I wanted to vote with warbaby on glurio or slayalot, but things were moving way too fast -- particularly when Sn0's cop claim came up I knew I had to jump in and post spontaneously rather than try to draft a longer post. Good thing Acid also saw the obvious solution at about the same time, but disappointing we could not get Sn0's switch in time and simply win there. About N2/D3: Glurio's posting late D2 and in N2 was incredibly scummy, but Corazon managed to muddy things up again in N2, and that evidently affected zarepath's will post as well. It did throw me off balance for a bit, and without any clear signal from Acid on how he felt about Cora, I wanted to try and coax both Acid and Cora to come out and lay out some cases or reasoning, and earn some town cred to improve townreads on them. In hindsight I completely botched this -- should have remembered that these were the same guys going at each others' throats for a good chunk of the game. Turns out Corazon wasn't really in a state to take pressure anymore, even after taking a short break. Things completely break down again. Since scum didn't even dare to take the opening that I'd left to make a substantial Sno-Cora case (for us to bash to pieces!), I ended up offering my goggles-fully-on case to see if Acid would be able to spot the inconsistencies, but all I got was Sn0 starting to panic. Once it became clear that Acid wasn't going to say much about it, and corazon had actually left after voting himself, I decided it was time to end the charade. In hindsight I feel that it was a big mistake to actually vote Corazon along with the case, which would have made it look like I actually believed that stuff. (Well no, actually the mistake might have been even making that post to begin with.) Happily for us glurio goes into super scummy try-hard mode with like 20 min to go, which together with his N2 and early D3 posts really sealed the deal and confirmed him as the correct choice for both Acid and myself. ========== I feel like I need to explain my "newbie refund" comment to avoid any misunderstandings. It is not directed at anyone's play, it is a statement about: - how the whole game felt incredibly "WTF" -- this is a confluence of many factors, and I blame no individual for this - how the game was pretty much over just as my schedule allowed me to actually become active, so I technically didn't even have to do all that stuff in N2 and D3 if I didn't want to. But that's par for the course for a replacement I guess. At least I didn't get NK immediately. ========== On February 03 2013 15:18 cDgCorazon wrote: However, Cake blamed me for sheeping, and decided to vote me. I was really pissed that he could not see I was bad town, and that Glurio was bad scum. [...] I wasn't going to back down because if Cake and Acid could not use logic, I would have kept the vote on myself and basically force the town to lose the game because of it's stupidity. Believe it or not, I did believe that you had simply botched D2+N2, and I was trying to offer an opportunity for you to reestablish some cred, and pushing you to do it, hoping that you'd be in a better state to play after some rest. But I mismanaged it, my bad. Since I was "fresh" I failed to properly judge how emotionally spent you guys already were. On February 03 2013 15:18 cDgCorazon wrote: When I played XXXIII (and I guess to a lesser extent, XXXIV), I was on Winter Break. I had all the time in the world to refresh the page and read everything through. This time, I didn't have that luxury. You and me both. I was just fortunate that my schedule opened up, and the fact that I was busy earlier allowed me to stay out of the fray. ========== On February 03 2013 16:10 Sn0_Man wrote: I also mentioned this earlier (I think) but this setup looks ridiculously town favoured, although I'll admit that the medic save working Night 1 is not gonna be that common. And I guess my cop claim was pretty lucky for me (in the end) because scum would have killed me if I hadn't claimed (funnily enough). The 2of4 setup is not that imbalanced at all. What happened in this game was actually unusual, but it is best understood as a consequence of a dice roll giving us this particular setup, in combination with the D1 play. In particular, day 1 was like a 5 or 5.5 player game in which only very few people were highly active. Zare was such an obvious target for scum kill / medic protect; scum rolecop just needed to pick from the remaining actives. Cora and warbaby were both excellent choices for cop check, and Cora, Acid and warbaby were all controversial players inviting N2 soft cases and D2 mislynch target. On February 03 2013 16:10 Sn0_Man wrote: [..] lynching the uncontested medic claim, [..] It did bring a lot of clarity (for me at least). Clarity for you is useless when the correct thing for scum to do would be to kill you. I had serious concerns about whether I would be able to convince Corazon not to mislynch Acid together with the scum if that scenario had happened, which was why I played up the fact that killing zare would leave us with no confirmed townies. I guess Cora's little deception also helped convince scum to try to play to discredit you -- although it also had negative repercussions for us. ========== On February 03 2013 20:14 JacobStrangelove wrote: It was an interesting game to obs, the end was kinda crazy I almost thought you guys would wifom your way into stupidity. You have to be 100% sure to pull those kinda moves on mylo. That said I did do it before successfully but that is because I was 100% sure of my reads and was confirmed town basically (forced the vote switch with that power) I think it was cake that said even he wasn't convinced of his own case. Nah, I knew that it was a load of weak WIFOM, which was why I:
On February 03 2013 20:14 JacobStrangelove wrote: For instance Sno knew the game was solved but you can't relax right then you have to convince everyone you know are town why it's right. If you ground it into them there is no possibility for error. This, very much, was what I was trying to get out of him (and Cora). At least Sn0 immediately attacked the obvious weak points of the rubbish hypothesis. ========== On February 04 2013 08:06 glurio wrote: I'd like to apologize to everyone for me being so inactive. I actually was lurking a lot this game. After the last game i wanted to contribute much more but rolled scum and often was too scared to post. Because everything i wrote up sounded incredibly scummy or stupid, so i didn't. Since most of town were killing each other anyway. You guys basically threw away a game that town handed to you on a silver platter on early-to-mid D2. When town starts fighting with itself so hard, even better for you to get active and try to sound reasonable, or join the fray and foster more chaos. Choosing to have both scum wagon weakly onto an ongoing mislynch and then disappearing for a large chunk of the day is the last thing you want to do in that situation. I already had both of you pegged for doing that D1, and when I saw the same again on D2 it just stood out way too much, especially in contrast to the acerbic argument that was going on. When I was reading to catch up and saw warbaby's trying to get votes on you guys for "lurking", I wanted to vote with him because not because of the lurking, but because of your scummy voting. However things were really started to explode and under the time pressure of impending deadline I failed to elaborate properly other than stating: (Basis: voting patterns) Having said that, scum can be really hard to play as a beginner; better luck next time! On February 04 2013 08:06 glurio wrote: I'll try to make the next game more fun for everyone. Hey guys pre-emptive scumclaim, right here!  | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
now's the time to go click on the link for the newbie xxxvii thread, type "/in," activate the "post" button, thereby volunteering to play in the next iteration of this fine tradition of games where players of 3 or fewer total games of similar requirements can all play free of the trying and perhaps(?) unhelpful infusion of players of immense experience and/or astounding mental prowess. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
Would love to play scum vs you as town :0 | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
E: nobody came close to getting what I was trying to say. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On February 05 2013 00:21 Sn0_Man wrote: Hmmm, I think far too logically for this game. If only I thought more psychologically I think I'd do much better (see: cakepie). Ah well 2 games 2 wins without getting myself mislynched is good enough for me. To clarify, this is how I think: "well glurio is scum because XYZ, better tell that to town" And I probably should try to think more like: "well if I can get acid to agree that cora is actually town, then maybe he will make a good case on glurio and build himself some town cred..." If you were being logical, your vote could not possibly have been on warbaby at deadline ^^ | ||
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iamperfection
United States9634 Posts
On February 05 2013 00:21 Sn0_Man wrote: Hmmm, I think far too logically for this game. If only I thought more psychologically I think I'd do much better (see: cakepie). Ah well 2 games 2 wins without getting myself mislynched is good enough for me. To clarify, this is how I think: "well glurio is scum because XYZ, better tell that to town" And I probably should try to think more like: "well if I can get acid to agree that cora is actually town, then maybe he will make a good case on glurio and build himself some town cred..." well i think as town just keep it simple. This guy is scum because ....... so on and etc then try to get people to vote for him. I don't think you should be worrying about the town cred of your town reads just try and lynch the scum. | ||
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warbaby
United States510 Posts
On February 05 2013 00:21 Sn0_Man wrote:If only I thought more psychologically I think I'd do much better (see: cakepie). Psychology is a funny thing (it's like chiropracty for the personality), and some of the luminaries in the field were friggin weird dudes. Obviously modern psychology has taken tremendous strides towards being a rigorous, analytical science, but it still focuses entirely on the (unreliable, unknowable) human psyche. You should trust your gut, and the simple explanation; more than a complex theory built on potentially flawed logic and analysis of other's motives. Especially in a newbie game where the other players may not have a good idea what their motives are, or what the rational move is to make. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
And Cora, sorry about the crappy WIFOM case. Honestly I think the main reason I continued to suspect you was because you switched your vote onto the medic claim. But even after all that, glurio and Slay should've looked WAY scummier to me. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On January 26 2013 19:16 Slayalot wrote: I'm not sure what to write in these games yet. But as a few people have also said. The above "guidelines" from warbaby is a really good idea. Lurkers will most likely get my vote. And furthermore I think that writing nonsense to fill up the chat (really mean online trick btw) is just as bad as lurking, and I will be watching out for that aswell. I'd like to dissect this post for you guys. You should have been able to call Slay out as scum as soon as you saw it. Or perhaps you should not have been able to but in the future you should be able to do so. first off we have I'm not sure what to write in these games yet which is a scummy thing to say. Townies do not excuse themselves from their posting, they do not try to develop a reason for their posts to be lacking. Townies simply post. A scum thinks 'I have no idea what to say' early day one because the scum agenda is hard to push when there is no direct reason to do so, it is early day one and town is doing scum's work for them. this as a few people have also said. The above "guidelines" from warbaby is a really good idea is pure sheep and while a sheep can be townie this player is trying to look townie. Not be townie. An image is an important thing for scum while it doesn't (usually) occur that a townie tries to protect his townieness early day one. Next is this gem Lurkers will most likely get my vote. where Slay tries to justify a vote before he makes it. He is trying to dodge the responsibility of voting a townie and hasn't even voted yet. Additionally look who he is placing his vote on, is it someone scummy? Someone he thinks is scum? no, simply a lurker. The last part of the post And furthermore I think that writing nonsense to fill up the chat (really mean online trick btw) is just as bad as lurking, and I will be watching out for that as well[sic] is an attempt to gain town cred, he is posting useless advice which you have no need for. You either know it already or will never know it. This fluff in his own post is exactly what he is talking about as deserving a vote (though not because it is scummy).So in reading Slay's first post you should have seen his scumminess, he was a newb scum and he showed you that in the above post. I hope this helps, I'm in the middle of nodding off during class so it may not be the most cognizant. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On February 05 2013 05:25 Promethelax wrote: thisis pure sheep and while a sheep can be townie this player is trying to look townie. Not be townie. An image is an important thing for scum while it doesn't (usually) occur that a townie tries to protect his townieness early day one. I'd like to highlight this because people disagreed when I said something along the lines of "Overt town claims are scummy to me because town doesn't care about their image, but scum care a LOT about their image and try very hard to burnish it". Heavily paraphrased, but the same idea. | ||
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