• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:38
CEST 21:38
KST 04:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Ro4 Preview: Storied Rivals6Code S RO12 Preview: Maru, Trigger, Rogue, NightMare12Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, sOs, Reynor, Solar15[ASL19] Ro8 Preview: Unyielding3Official Ladder Map Pool Update (April 28, 2025)17
Community News
Dark to begin military service on May 13th (2025)9Weekly Cups (May 5-11): New 2v2 Champs1Maru & Rogue GSL RO12 interviews: "I think the pressure really got to [trigger]"5Code S Season 1 - Maru & Rogue advance to RO80Code S Season 1 - Cure & Reynor advance to RO84
StarCraft 2
General
Dark to begin military service on May 13th (2025) Map Pool Suggestion: Throwback ERA How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? I hope balance council is prepping final balance 2024/25 Off-Season Roster Moves
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S:Season 1 - RO12 - Group B Monday Nights Weeklies Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 1 - RO12 - Group A $1,250 WardiTV May [May 6th-May 18th]
Strategy
[G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed Mutation # 470 Certain Demise
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL19] Ro4 Preview: Storied Rivals Battlenet Game Lobby Simulator Twitch StarCraft Holiday Bash (UMS) Artosis vs Ogre Zerg [The Legend Continues]
Tourneys
[ASL19] Semifinal A BSL Nation Wars 2 - Grand Finals - Saturday 21:00 [ASL19] Ro8 Day 4 [USBL Spring 2025] Groups cast
Strategy
[G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player Creating a full chart of Zerg builds [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
What do you want from future RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Grand Theft Auto VI Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Books] Wool by Hugh Howey Surprisingly good films/Hidden Gems
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Why 5v5 Games Keep Us Hooked…
TrAiDoS
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
BW PvZ Balance hypothetic…
Vasoline73
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11083 users

SEL Fall Championship 2024 (SC: Evo Mod)

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
6 CommentsPost a Reply
MrIronGolem27
Profile Joined July 2020
United States201 Posts
October 20 2024 17:23 GMT
#1
[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]


StarCraft Evolution League Fall Championship 2024

Prize Pool: $1,100 + Matcherino contributions

Brought to you by Yu StarCraft - please help him out by subscribing!

You must join the Discord server to participate -> Join here

◉ Qualifier registration
◉ Qualifier Date: Saturday, November 2, 10 AM EDT / 3 PM CET / 11 PM KST
◉ Main Event Date: Saturday/Sunday, November 16-17/23-24, 7 AM EST / 1 PM CET / 9 PM KST
◉ Discord
◉ Liquipedia
◉ Streams: See here.
Facebook Twitter Reddit
HyperONE - mapmaker (TLMC19 2nd place, TLMC17 3rd+5th place), tournament organizer (organizer for the StarCraft Evolution League and Circle Derping), Liquipedia editor, Aligulac contributor, owner of Team HyperONE, and SC: Evo Complete developer
MrIronGolem27
Profile Joined July 2020
United States201 Posts
November 01 2024 22:44 GMT
#2
Last chance to sign up, we're starting in just over 12 hours
HyperONE - mapmaker (TLMC19 2nd place, TLMC17 3rd+5th place), tournament organizer (organizer for the StarCraft Evolution League and Circle Derping), Liquipedia editor, Aligulac contributor, owner of Team HyperONE, and SC: Evo Complete developer
MrIronGolem27
Profile Joined July 2020
United States201 Posts
November 11 2024 22:49 GMT
#3
[image loading]

[image loading]


All 16 players for the main event have been confirmed, groups will be announced shortly.
HyperONE - mapmaker (TLMC19 2nd place, TLMC17 3rd+5th place), tournament organizer (organizer for the StarCraft Evolution League and Circle Derping), Liquipedia editor, Aligulac contributor, owner of Team HyperONE, and SC: Evo Complete developer
MrIronGolem27
Profile Joined July 2020
United States201 Posts
November 12 2024 07:46 GMT
#4
[image loading]
HyperONE - mapmaker (TLMC19 2nd place, TLMC17 3rd+5th place), tournament organizer (organizer for the StarCraft Evolution League and Circle Derping), Liquipedia editor, Aligulac contributor, owner of Team HyperONE, and SC: Evo Complete developer
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33199 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-11-12 21:51:55
November 12 2024 21:40 GMT
#5
Haven't checked in on the mod in a while; good to see the competition is still rolling along like this.

How's balance looking for the tournament? Is it playable by just picking one of each SC2/BW race, or are there some bad match-ups that force you to learn a back-up race?
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
MrIronGolem27
Profile Joined July 2020
United States201 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-11-13 03:13:10
November 13 2024 00:32 GMT
#6
On November 13 2024 06:40 Waxangel wrote:
Haven't checked in on the mod in a while; good to see the competition is still rolling along like this.

How's balance looking for the tournament? Is it playable by just picking one of each SC2/BW race, or are there some bad match-ups that force you to learn a back-up race?


I was going to write a shorter response, but considering this might be a unique opportunity to more thoroughly explain what's been going on with the mod, I've written a wall of text. I apologize that it's a bit disorganized.

Speaking in my capacity as the head organizer for SEL and a member of Team Koprulu (though, until recently, only as a mapmaker): balancing SC: Evo Complete has been tough.

Between May and June, the BW races had relatively slow, expensive tech and ineffective basic combat units and were propped up by having a substantial income advantage (~12% higher mineral income per worker). The idea was that the BW races would have their income advantage reduced to 0% over time and their army and tech made more effective; v1.5 in June reduced the mineral advantage from ~12% to ~9%. Unfortunately, we under-compensated in buffs and the BW races ended up having such awful early game defense that all-ins were the only viable way to play. The Chzzk Cup got ruined over it; BW races had less than a 20% winrate and thousands of Korean viewers left with a poor impression of the mod's balance.

Since August, we've been continued patching up the early game holes and easing the tech progression into the mid- and late-game by continuing to buff the BW races while gradually nerfing the income advantage, which currently sits at ~6%; we tried to reduce this all the way to 0% but there ended up simply being no more room to buff production times to compensate. We are also committed to preserving the identity of the BW races (so no adding/removing tags, rearranging the tech tree, adding new abilities or weird bonus damage types like vs. Hover) so the levers we are working with are relatively limited. If you're interested in what those patches look like, you can read about them here.

Currently, BW Zerg is considered a solid race and the strongest of the three BW races, with no problematic matchups (maybe even a bit too strong all-around, especially against SC2 Zerg). The state of BW Terran and BW Protoss are more contentious.

Historically, there have been some matchups that called for a backup race; BW Protoss vs SC2 Protoss used to be so bad that it tended to be won by whoever got to play SC2 Protoss first, and the player forced to play BW first often kept a few all-ins in their back pocket as BW Zerg. The Chzzk Cup was a prime demonstration of this, where herO was knocked out of the lower bracket by a ~5k MMR Protoss executing a BW Zerg 12 pool drone pull (it should be noted BW Drones had 1 range and a faster attack speed than SC2 workers at the time).

When I began the StarCraft Evolution League in August, I instituted a rule requiring all participants to play one BW race and one SC2 race for the entire event. Partly, this was to prevent a particular top player from sandbagging in the finals, but it was also to help us collect more reliable balance data (so we can see what makes a weak race weak) and create an identity around each player. That rule remains in effect for the Fall Championship, so players will not be able to select a backup race.

The balance is greatly improved from the days of the Chzzk Cup, though many concerns still remain; for example, the state of BW Protoss vs SC2 Protoss remains uncertain despite some badly needed, massive buffs to the Reaver in the form of anti-Shield bonus damage. Moreover, the 5.0.14 PTR could hit live servers in the middle of the event, and there's no telling what that might do. We are internally discussing some changes which could be pushed in case that happens, but of course, it depends on the actual contents of the 5.0.14 patch.
HyperONE - mapmaker (TLMC19 2nd place, TLMC17 3rd+5th place), tournament organizer (organizer for the StarCraft Evolution League and Circle Derping), Liquipedia editor, Aligulac contributor, owner of Team HyperONE, and SC: Evo Complete developer
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland24404 Posts
November 13 2024 02:45 GMT
#7
On November 13 2024 09:32 MrIronGolem27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2024 06:40 Waxangel wrote:
Haven't checked in on the mod in a while; good to see the competition is still rolling along like this.

How's balance looking for the tournament? Is it playable by just picking one of each SC2/BW race, or are there some bad match-ups that force you to learn a back-up race?


I was going to write a shorter response, but considering this might be a unique opportunity to more thoroughly explain what's been going on with the mod, I've written a wall of text. I apologize that it's a bit disorganized.

Speaking in my capacity as the head organizer for SEL and a member of Team Koprulu (though, until recently, only as a mapmaker): balancing SC: Evo Complete has been tough.

Between May and June, the BW races had relatively slow, expensive tech and ineffective basic combat units and were propped up by having a substantial income advantage (~12% higher mineral income per worker). The idea was that the BW races would have their income advantage reduced to 0% over time and their army and tech made more effective; v1.5 in June reduced the mineral advantage from ~12% to ~9%. Unfortunately, we under-compensated in buffs and the BW races ended up having such awful early game defense that all-ins were the only viable way to play. The Chzzk Cup got ruined over it; BW races had less than a 20% winrate and thousands of Korean viewers left with a poor impression of the mod's balance.

Since August, we've been continued patching up the early game holes and easing the tech progression into the mid- and late-game by continuing to buff the BW races while gradually nerfing the income advantage, which currently sits at ~6%; we tried to reduce this all the way to 0% but there ended up simply being no more room to buff production times to compensate. If you're interested in what those patches look like, you can read about them here.

Currently, BW Zerg is considered a solid race and the strongest of the three BW races, with no problematic matchups (maybe even a bit too strong all-around, especially against SC2 Zerg). The state of BW Terran and BW Protoss are more contentious.

Historically, there have been some matchups that called for a backup race; BW Protoss vs SC2 Protoss used to be so bad that it tended to be won by whoever got to play SC2 Protoss first, and the player forced to play BW first often kept a few all-ins in their back pocket as BW Zerg. The Chzzk Cup was a prime demonstration of this, where herO was knocked out of the lower bracket by a ~5k MMR Protoss executing a BW Zerg 12 pool drone pull (it should be noted BW Drones had 1 range and a faster attack speed than SC2 workers at the time).

When I began the StarCraft Evolution League in August, I instituted a rule requiring all participants to play one BW race and one SC2 race for the entire event. Partly, this was to prevent a particular top player from sandbagging in the finals, but it was also to help us collect more reliable balance data (so we can see what makes a weak race weak) and create an identity around each player. That rule remains in effect for the Fall Championship, so players will not be able to select a backup race.

The balance is greatly improved from the days of the Chzzk Cup, though a number of concerns still remain; for example, the state of BW Protoss vs SC2 Protoss remains uncertain despite some badly needed, massive buffs to the Reaver in the form of anti-Shield bonus damage. Moreover, the 5.0.14 PTR could hit live servers in the middle of the event, and there's no telling what that might do. We are internally discussing some changes which could be pushed in case that happens, but of course, it depends on the actual contents of the 5.0.14 patch.

Cheers for the insight, it’s certainly a tough challenge
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 22m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 802
IndyStarCraft 188
ProTech112
JuggernautJason56
StarCraft: Brood War
Mini 395
Dewaltoss 285
firebathero 196
HiyA 46
Sexy 14
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm77
Pyrionflax73
Counter-Strike
ScreaM2246
Stewie2K826
flusha406
NBK_188
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu633
Khaldor281
Other Games
Grubby5587
Beastyqt1121
ceh9653
ZombieGrub117
C9.Mang0109
Trikslyr59
BRAT_OK 54
MindelVK11
Organizations
StarCraft 2
ESL.tv135
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 282
• Reevou 4
• MJG 1
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 10
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade2453
Counter-Strike
• Nemesis3938
Other Games
• WagamamaTV851
• Shiphtur601
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 22m
Replay Cast
14h 22m
Afreeca Starleague
14h 22m
Snow vs Soulkey
WardiTV Invitational
15h 22m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 4h
GSL Code S
1d 13h
ByuN vs Rogue
herO vs Cure
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
Classic vs Reynor
GuMiho vs Maru
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
GSL Code S
3 days
OSC
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
SOOP
4 days
Online Event
5 days
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Nation Wars Season 2
PiG Sty Festival 6.0
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
2025 GSL S1
Heroes 10 EU
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

NPSL S3
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
DreamHack Dallas 2025
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.