|
We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On August 13 2013 07:39 Killscreen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 07:26 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:19 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:17 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:14 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:10 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 13 2013 06:40 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 06:38 farvacola wrote:
On what basis is jealousy less "real" than other human emotions? Other emotions serve a real purpose. Jealousy can safely be ignored. You're just making an arbitrary distinction between jealousy and every other human emotion, I don't really see how that is not the case. There's nothing wrong with giving preference to certain things within a value system, but that's what it is, it's not jealousy not being a 'real' emotion or what have you. It is not an arbitrary distinction at all. We need our other emotions. We absolutely depend on them, but nothing good ever comes from jealousy. And I think it is wrong for a value system to enslave women so that we may be spared some slight emotional stress. It's an arbitrary distinction regardless. Just because one emotion is overwhelmingly negative and despicable doesn't mean it can be dismissed or whatever. Jealousy had led people to accomplish important things in terms of scale. Also, jealousy has undoubtedly led to good things. It's easy to look at something bad and just assume nothing good could ever come of it. Life is not a fairy tale. People do bad shit all the time. I don't mean to be rude, but do you know what "arbitrary" means? What has jealousy led people to accomplish? Yes I know what arbitrary means, I've been around the block. It's an arbitrary distinction because there's no proper justification for why the emotion should be disregarded. And I have to say that you'd be lying if the gut wrenching feeling of being jealous had never given you a good reason to better yourself and try to do better so that you could get those things. Jealousy doesn't always get people to try to take stuff from others. It's not uncommon for fat nerdy guys to be jealous because they can't get the girls, they don't like being jealous so they get shit done and then their life is better for it. To deny the fact that those things happen would be ridiculous and very much in touch with what I said - people know jealousy is bad so they tell themselves that it's all bad. Shallow BS. No, they better themselves because they are horny and want sex. Can you think of a situation from your life where you let jealousy take over and you made a good decision? Because I made exclusively bad ones when I let it happen. Boy did I ever.. It is an inherently negative emotion, and a sign of weakness.
It seems to me like you have a conveniently silly and minimalist understanding of how shit works so you can easily translate words into binary concepts. Stuff can easily be good and bad in your simple world.
Jealousy doesn't always take over. Sometimes it's something you feel and that makes you do better. That's why it can't be dismissed.
Jealousy is not always 100% bad. An apt comparison is that cow shit is a great fertilizer.
|
On August 13 2013 07:45 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 07:39 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:26 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:19 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:17 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:14 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:10 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 13 2013 06:40 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 06:38 farvacola wrote:
On what basis is jealousy less "real" than other human emotions? Other emotions serve a real purpose. Jealousy can safely be ignored. You're just making an arbitrary distinction between jealousy and every other human emotion, I don't really see how that is not the case. There's nothing wrong with giving preference to certain things within a value system, but that's what it is, it's not jealousy not being a 'real' emotion or what have you. It is not an arbitrary distinction at all. We need our other emotions. We absolutely depend on them, but nothing good ever comes from jealousy. And I think it is wrong for a value system to enslave women so that we may be spared some slight emotional stress. It's an arbitrary distinction regardless. Just because one emotion is overwhelmingly negative and despicable doesn't mean it can be dismissed or whatever. Jealousy had led people to accomplish important things in terms of scale. Also, jealousy has undoubtedly led to good things. It's easy to look at something bad and just assume nothing good could ever come of it. Life is not a fairy tale. People do bad shit all the time. I don't mean to be rude, but do you know what "arbitrary" means? What has jealousy led people to accomplish? Yes I know what arbitrary means, I've been around the block. It's an arbitrary distinction because there's no proper justification for why the emotion should be disregarded. And I have to say that you'd be lying if the gut wrenching feeling of being jealous had never given you a good reason to better yourself and try to do better so that you could get those things. Jealousy doesn't always get people to try to take stuff from others. It's not uncommon for fat nerdy guys to be jealous because they can't get the girls, they don't like being jealous so they get shit done and then their life is better for it. To deny the fact that those things happen would be ridiculous and very much in touch with what I said - people know jealousy is bad so they tell themselves that it's all bad. Shallow BS. No, they better themselves because they are horny and want sex. Can you think of a situation from your life where you let jealousy take over and you made a good decision? Because I made exclusively bad ones when I let it happen. Boy did I ever.. It is an inherently negative emotion, and a sign of weakness. It seems to me like you have a conveniently silly and minimalist understanding of how shit works so you can easily translate words into binary concepts. Stuff can easily be good and bad in your simple world. Jealousy is not always 100% bad. An apt comparison is that cow shit is a great fertilizer.
Then it shouldn't be hard for you to find a good example of something positive happening as a result of jealousy, keeping in mind the presumably thousands of murders that occur as a direct result of it each year.
|
|
|
On August 13 2013 07:48 Chemist391 wrote:
Speaking of jealousy and love and (ir)rationality of emotion, I just happened to read "Island" by Aldous Huxley recently. Fantastic book on many levels, but it discusses these issues directly. Some here may find it interesting.
Appreciate the tip!
|
On August 13 2013 07:48 Killscreen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 07:45 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:39 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:26 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:19 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:17 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:14 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:10 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 13 2013 06:40 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 06:38 farvacola wrote:
On what basis is jealousy less "real" than other human emotions? Other emotions serve a real purpose. Jealousy can safely be ignored. You're just making an arbitrary distinction between jealousy and every other human emotion, I don't really see how that is not the case. There's nothing wrong with giving preference to certain things within a value system, but that's what it is, it's not jealousy not being a 'real' emotion or what have you. It is not an arbitrary distinction at all. We need our other emotions. We absolutely depend on them, but nothing good ever comes from jealousy. And I think it is wrong for a value system to enslave women so that we may be spared some slight emotional stress. It's an arbitrary distinction regardless. Just because one emotion is overwhelmingly negative and despicable doesn't mean it can be dismissed or whatever. Jealousy had led people to accomplish important things in terms of scale. Also, jealousy has undoubtedly led to good things. It's easy to look at something bad and just assume nothing good could ever come of it. Life is not a fairy tale. People do bad shit all the time. I don't mean to be rude, but do you know what "arbitrary" means? What has jealousy led people to accomplish? Yes I know what arbitrary means, I've been around the block. It's an arbitrary distinction because there's no proper justification for why the emotion should be disregarded. And I have to say that you'd be lying if the gut wrenching feeling of being jealous had never given you a good reason to better yourself and try to do better so that you could get those things. Jealousy doesn't always get people to try to take stuff from others. It's not uncommon for fat nerdy guys to be jealous because they can't get the girls, they don't like being jealous so they get shit done and then their life is better for it. To deny the fact that those things happen would be ridiculous and very much in touch with what I said - people know jealousy is bad so they tell themselves that it's all bad. Shallow BS. No, they better themselves because they are horny and want sex. Can you think of a situation from your life where you let jealousy take over and you made a good decision? Because I made exclusively bad ones when I let it happen. Boy did I ever.. It is an inherently negative emotion, and a sign of weakness. It seems to me like you have a conveniently silly and minimalist understanding of how shit works so you can easily translate words into binary concepts. Stuff can easily be good and bad in your simple world. Jealousy is not always 100% bad. An apt comparison is that cow shit is a great fertilizer. Then it shouldn't be hard for you to find a good example of something positive happening as a result of jealousy, keeping in mind the presumably thousands of murders that occur as a direct result of it each year.
Why would I need to keep in mind the bad things to be able to think of the good things, please tell me... All I'm arguing is that you can't dismiss it as a factor of positive change, unless a bit of a dummy.
I decided to get in better shape when my buddy met his girlfriend because I was jealous of him for some time because my gf had broken up with me a few months prior. I realized that I would be a more interesting person if I looked like I cared about myself. Lost some weight (not all), got a haircut, bought some clothes, started going out a bit. Now I'm seeing a girl.
Is that completely impossible to conceive?
|
On August 13 2013 06:29 Killscreen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 04:22 sunprince wrote:On August 12 2013 19:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 12 2013 08:40 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 23:45 BisuEver wrote:On August 10 2013 19:03 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 17:46 BisuEver wrote:If this is what one can expect I don't think I want a relationship. Ever. It's like sticking your penis in a blender. I would rather become gay or marry my hand if this is what I could expect. Just terrible people. If you are a shitty person the quality of relationship you can expect will be shitty. Because you have shitty people. Just-world fallacy. If anything, you've got it backwards: being a bad person increases the likelihood that you will be taking advantage of other people rather than the other way around, so if you are a "shitty" person you are less likely to date "shitty" people. No, I'm saying it will be a shitty relationship. There's 2 people in 1. It's like a prisoner's dilemma thing. Either you can be a worse person or they can be a better one. Otherwise you're both in for some shit. Your assumption here is that in any relationship, one partner rises to the level of the other and/or one partner sinks to the level of the other. You have absolutely no basis for that assumption, aside from possibly too many romance movies. There is also the assumption that having a new partner lined up before ending it with the previous one makes you a shitty person. It doesn't. It stings. Trust me I know it does, but it doesn't make her a bad person you should harbor resentment for. It makes you a shitty person if the other person is unaware that this is acceptable behavior in your relationship. And while this varies across cultures, I would argue that this is typically not considered acceptable in modern first-world societies unless specified beforehand. I don't care what any particular society expects. If following society's rules is the primary concern then fine, but realize this: Every society has these constructs that protect men from jealousy. The problem is that they are all misogynistic in nature, designed to control women with guilt under the guise of moral and religion, so that they may not wield the power of sexual jealousy over men. I refuse to obey such archaic, unnatural and evil constructs. They became obsolete with the condom. Jealousy is an illusion.It is simply your brain giving you a chemical signal, so that you focus your time and resources on your own offspring. Not having this response increases the risk of raising another male's offspring and thus not efficiently reproducing yourself. It is a chemical response to an ancient problem we no longer face, and yet it so severely limits our life, if we let it. Learning to handle jealousy makes you a better man and gives you a more fulfilling love life with less drama. No jealousy means no shame, guilt or inhibition. Conquering jealousy is no easy task, but then most worthwhile tasks in life aren't. Without jealousy, you are sad to see the girl go, but glad she has found someone who makes her happy, and glad you got to fuck her while she looked around. Without jealousy she can even be honest about it, and you too can see other people. It's just better that way. No anger, resentment or drama. Just love.
While I generally take a similar viewpoint on sexual jealousy, there is a difference between an agreed-upon open relationship and an open relationship that only one partner is aware of.
Your arguments ignore that difference, so you're veering off-topic here.
|
On August 13 2013 07:52 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 07:48 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:45 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:39 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:26 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:19 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:17 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:14 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:10 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 13 2013 06:40 Killscreen wrote:
[quote]
Other emotions serve a real purpose. Jealousy can safely be ignored. You're just making an arbitrary distinction between jealousy and every other human emotion, I don't really see how that is not the case. There's nothing wrong with giving preference to certain things within a value system, but that's what it is, it's not jealousy not being a 'real' emotion or what have you. It is not an arbitrary distinction at all. We need our other emotions. We absolutely depend on them, but nothing good ever comes from jealousy. And I think it is wrong for a value system to enslave women so that we may be spared some slight emotional stress. It's an arbitrary distinction regardless. Just because one emotion is overwhelmingly negative and despicable doesn't mean it can be dismissed or whatever. Jealousy had led people to accomplish important things in terms of scale. Also, jealousy has undoubtedly led to good things. It's easy to look at something bad and just assume nothing good could ever come of it. Life is not a fairy tale. People do bad shit all the time. I don't mean to be rude, but do you know what "arbitrary" means? What has jealousy led people to accomplish? Yes I know what arbitrary means, I've been around the block. It's an arbitrary distinction because there's no proper justification for why the emotion should be disregarded. And I have to say that you'd be lying if the gut wrenching feeling of being jealous had never given you a good reason to better yourself and try to do better so that you could get those things. Jealousy doesn't always get people to try to take stuff from others. It's not uncommon for fat nerdy guys to be jealous because they can't get the girls, they don't like being jealous so they get shit done and then their life is better for it. To deny the fact that those things happen would be ridiculous and very much in touch with what I said - people know jealousy is bad so they tell themselves that it's all bad. Shallow BS. No, they better themselves because they are horny and want sex. Can you think of a situation from your life where you let jealousy take over and you made a good decision? Because I made exclusively bad ones when I let it happen. Boy did I ever.. It is an inherently negative emotion, and a sign of weakness. It seems to me like you have a conveniently silly and minimalist understanding of how shit works so you can easily translate words into binary concepts. Stuff can easily be good and bad in your simple world. Jealousy is not always 100% bad. An apt comparison is that cow shit is a great fertilizer. Then it shouldn't be hard for you to find a good example of something positive happening as a result of jealousy, keeping in mind the presumably thousands of murders that occur as a direct result of it each year. Why would I need to keep in mind the bad things to be able to think of the good things, please tell me... I decided to get in better shape when my buddy met his girlfriend because I was jealous of him for sometime, then realized that I would be a more interesting person if I looked like I cared about myself. Now I'm seeing a girl. Is that completely impossible to conceive?
I think I need to clarify that sexual jealousy is something else. Wanting your neighbors car or house isn't the same feeling you experience if you see your neighbor fucking your wife.
|
On August 13 2013 07:57 Killscreen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 07:52 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:48 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:45 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:39 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:26 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:19 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:17 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:14 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:10 Wombat_NI wrote:
[quote]
You're just making an arbitrary distinction between jealousy and every other human emotion, I don't really see how that is not the case. There's nothing wrong with giving preference to certain things within a value system, but that's what it is, it's not jealousy not being a 'real' emotion or what have you.
It is not an arbitrary distinction at all. We need our other emotions. We absolutely depend on them, but nothing good ever comes from jealousy. And I think it is wrong for a value system to enslave women so that we may be spared some slight emotional stress. It's an arbitrary distinction regardless. Just because one emotion is overwhelmingly negative and despicable doesn't mean it can be dismissed or whatever. Jealousy had led people to accomplish important things in terms of scale. Also, jealousy has undoubtedly led to good things. It's easy to look at something bad and just assume nothing good could ever come of it. Life is not a fairy tale. People do bad shit all the time. I don't mean to be rude, but do you know what "arbitrary" means? What has jealousy led people to accomplish? Yes I know what arbitrary means, I've been around the block. It's an arbitrary distinction because there's no proper justification for why the emotion should be disregarded. And I have to say that you'd be lying if the gut wrenching feeling of being jealous had never given you a good reason to better yourself and try to do better so that you could get those things. Jealousy doesn't always get people to try to take stuff from others. It's not uncommon for fat nerdy guys to be jealous because they can't get the girls, they don't like being jealous so they get shit done and then their life is better for it. To deny the fact that those things happen would be ridiculous and very much in touch with what I said - people know jealousy is bad so they tell themselves that it's all bad. Shallow BS. No, they better themselves because they are horny and want sex. Can you think of a situation from your life where you let jealousy take over and you made a good decision? Because I made exclusively bad ones when I let it happen. Boy did I ever.. It is an inherently negative emotion, and a sign of weakness. It seems to me like you have a conveniently silly and minimalist understanding of how shit works so you can easily translate words into binary concepts. Stuff can easily be good and bad in your simple world. Jealousy is not always 100% bad. An apt comparison is that cow shit is a great fertilizer. Then it shouldn't be hard for you to find a good example of something positive happening as a result of jealousy, keeping in mind the presumably thousands of murders that occur as a direct result of it each year. Why would I need to keep in mind the bad things to be able to think of the good things, please tell me... I decided to get in better shape when my buddy met his girlfriend because I was jealous of him for sometime, then realized that I would be a more interesting person if I looked like I cared about myself. Now I'm seeing a girl. Is that completely impossible to conceive? I think I need to clarify that sexual jealousy is something else. Wanting your neighbors car or house isn't the same feeling you experience if you see your neighbor fucking your wife.
I'm confused now... the jealousy from your neighbor fucking your wife just seems like jealousy is hardly the proper term to argue around, not that I would care for that conversation. I thought we were talking about jealousy in general and now it turns we're talking a very specific thing...
|
On August 13 2013 07:55 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 06:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 04:22 sunprince wrote:On August 12 2013 19:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 12 2013 08:40 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 23:45 BisuEver wrote:On August 10 2013 19:03 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 17:46 BisuEver wrote:If this is what one can expect I don't think I want a relationship. Ever. It's like sticking your penis in a blender. I would rather become gay or marry my hand if this is what I could expect. Just terrible people. If you are a shitty person the quality of relationship you can expect will be shitty. Because you have shitty people. Just-world fallacy. If anything, you've got it backwards: being a bad person increases the likelihood that you will be taking advantage of other people rather than the other way around, so if you are a "shitty" person you are less likely to date "shitty" people. No, I'm saying it will be a shitty relationship. There's 2 people in 1. It's like a prisoner's dilemma thing. Either you can be a worse person or they can be a better one. Otherwise you're both in for some shit. Your assumption here is that in any relationship, one partner rises to the level of the other and/or one partner sinks to the level of the other. You have absolutely no basis for that assumption, aside from possibly too many romance movies. There is also the assumption that having a new partner lined up before ending it with the previous one makes you a shitty person. It doesn't. It stings. Trust me I know it does, but it doesn't make her a bad person you should harbor resentment for. It makes you a shitty person if the other person is unaware that this is acceptable behavior in your relationship. And while this varies across cultures, I would argue that this is typically not considered acceptable in modern first-world societies unless specified beforehand. I don't care what any particular society expects. If following society's rules is the primary concern then fine, but realize this: Every society has these constructs that protect men from jealousy. The problem is that they are all misogynistic in nature, designed to control women with guilt under the guise of moral and religion, so that they may not wield the power of sexual jealousy over men. I refuse to obey such archaic, unnatural and evil constructs. They became obsolete with the condom. Jealousy is an illusion.It is simply your brain giving you a chemical signal, so that you focus your time and resources on your own offspring. Not having this response increases the risk of raising another male's offspring and thus not efficiently reproducing yourself. It is a chemical response to an ancient problem we no longer face, and yet it so severely limits our life, if we let it. Learning to handle jealousy makes you a better man and gives you a more fulfilling love life with less drama. No jealousy means no shame, guilt or inhibition. Conquering jealousy is no easy task, but then most worthwhile tasks in life aren't. Without jealousy, you are sad to see the girl go, but glad she has found someone who makes her happy, and glad you got to fuck her while she looked around. Without jealousy she can even be honest about it, and you too can see other people. It's just better that way. No anger, resentment or drama. Just love. While I generally take a similar viewpoint on jealousy, there is a difference between an agreed-upon open relationship and an open relationship that only one partner is aware of.
So its the fact that our hypothetical girl waited too long to break up. The break up was happening anyway, so I don't really see much difference. How does it hurt the person being left more?
|
On August 13 2013 07:59 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 07:57 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:52 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:48 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:45 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:39 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:26 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:19 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:17 Djzapz wrote:On August 13 2013 07:14 Killscreen wrote:
[quote]
It is not an arbitrary distinction at all. We need our other emotions. We absolutely depend on them, but nothing good ever comes from jealousy. And I think it is wrong for a value system to enslave women so that we may be spared some slight emotional stress. It's an arbitrary distinction regardless. Just because one emotion is overwhelmingly negative and despicable doesn't mean it can be dismissed or whatever. Jealousy had led people to accomplish important things in terms of scale. Also, jealousy has undoubtedly led to good things. It's easy to look at something bad and just assume nothing good could ever come of it. Life is not a fairy tale. People do bad shit all the time. I don't mean to be rude, but do you know what "arbitrary" means? What has jealousy led people to accomplish? Yes I know what arbitrary means, I've been around the block. It's an arbitrary distinction because there's no proper justification for why the emotion should be disregarded. And I have to say that you'd be lying if the gut wrenching feeling of being jealous had never given you a good reason to better yourself and try to do better so that you could get those things. Jealousy doesn't always get people to try to take stuff from others. It's not uncommon for fat nerdy guys to be jealous because they can't get the girls, they don't like being jealous so they get shit done and then their life is better for it. To deny the fact that those things happen would be ridiculous and very much in touch with what I said - people know jealousy is bad so they tell themselves that it's all bad. Shallow BS. No, they better themselves because they are horny and want sex. Can you think of a situation from your life where you let jealousy take over and you made a good decision? Because I made exclusively bad ones when I let it happen. Boy did I ever.. It is an inherently negative emotion, and a sign of weakness. It seems to me like you have a conveniently silly and minimalist understanding of how shit works so you can easily translate words into binary concepts. Stuff can easily be good and bad in your simple world. Jealousy is not always 100% bad. An apt comparison is that cow shit is a great fertilizer. Then it shouldn't be hard for you to find a good example of something positive happening as a result of jealousy, keeping in mind the presumably thousands of murders that occur as a direct result of it each year. Why would I need to keep in mind the bad things to be able to think of the good things, please tell me... I decided to get in better shape when my buddy met his girlfriend because I was jealous of him for sometime, then realized that I would be a more interesting person if I looked like I cared about myself. Now I'm seeing a girl. Is that completely impossible to conceive? I think I need to clarify that sexual jealousy is something else. Wanting your neighbors car or house isn't the same feeling you experience if you see your neighbor fucking your wife. I'm confused now... the jealousy from your neighbor fucking your wife just seems like jealousy is hardly the proper term to argue around, not that I would care for that conversation. I thought we were talking about jealousy in general and now it turns we're talking a very specific thing...
Yes, I should have clarified, but I thought it was clear from the context.
|
On August 13 2013 08:01 Killscreen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 07:55 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 06:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 04:22 sunprince wrote:On August 12 2013 19:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 12 2013 08:40 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 23:45 BisuEver wrote:On August 10 2013 19:03 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 17:46 BisuEver wrote:If this is what one can expect I don't think I want a relationship. Ever. It's like sticking your penis in a blender. I would rather become gay or marry my hand if this is what I could expect. Just terrible people. If you are a shitty person the quality of relationship you can expect will be shitty. Because you have shitty people. Just-world fallacy. If anything, you've got it backwards: being a bad person increases the likelihood that you will be taking advantage of other people rather than the other way around, so if you are a "shitty" person you are less likely to date "shitty" people. No, I'm saying it will be a shitty relationship. There's 2 people in 1. It's like a prisoner's dilemma thing. Either you can be a worse person or they can be a better one. Otherwise you're both in for some shit. Your assumption here is that in any relationship, one partner rises to the level of the other and/or one partner sinks to the level of the other. You have absolutely no basis for that assumption, aside from possibly too many romance movies. There is also the assumption that having a new partner lined up before ending it with the previous one makes you a shitty person. It doesn't. It stings. Trust me I know it does, but it doesn't make her a bad person you should harbor resentment for. It makes you a shitty person if the other person is unaware that this is acceptable behavior in your relationship. And while this varies across cultures, I would argue that this is typically not considered acceptable in modern first-world societies unless specified beforehand. I don't care what any particular society expects. If following society's rules is the primary concern then fine, but realize this: Every society has these constructs that protect men from jealousy. The problem is that they are all misogynistic in nature, designed to control women with guilt under the guise of moral and religion, so that they may not wield the power of sexual jealousy over men. I refuse to obey such archaic, unnatural and evil constructs. They became obsolete with the condom. Jealousy is an illusion.It is simply your brain giving you a chemical signal, so that you focus your time and resources on your own offspring. Not having this response increases the risk of raising another male's offspring and thus not efficiently reproducing yourself. It is a chemical response to an ancient problem we no longer face, and yet it so severely limits our life, if we let it. Learning to handle jealousy makes you a better man and gives you a more fulfilling love life with less drama. No jealousy means no shame, guilt or inhibition. Conquering jealousy is no easy task, but then most worthwhile tasks in life aren't. Without jealousy, you are sad to see the girl go, but glad she has found someone who makes her happy, and glad you got to fuck her while she looked around. Without jealousy she can even be honest about it, and you too can see other people. It's just better that way. No anger, resentment or drama. Just love. While I generally take a similar viewpoint on jealousy, there is a difference between an agreed-upon open relationship and an open relationship that only one partner is aware of. So its the fact that our hypothetical girl waited too long to break up. The break up was happening anyway, so I don't really see much difference. How does it hurt the person being left more?
Simply because a violation of an existing contract does not end up hurting anyone doesn't change the fact that the contract was violated.
You're just rationalizing away shitty behavior by examining the consequences, but that's not how ethical systems work. If something is dishonest behavior, then it is dishonest regardless of whether anyone was hurt by it.
|
^This. Couldn't have said it better myself.
|
On August 13 2013 08:04 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:01 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:55 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 06:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 04:22 sunprince wrote:On August 12 2013 19:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 12 2013 08:40 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 23:45 BisuEver wrote:On August 10 2013 19:03 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 17:46 BisuEver wrote:
[quote]
If this is what one can expect I don't think I want a relationship. Ever. It's like sticking your penis in a blender.
I would rather become gay or marry my hand if this is what I could expect. Just terrible people.
If you are a shitty person the quality of relationship you can expect will be shitty. Because you have shitty people. Just-world fallacy. If anything, you've got it backwards: being a bad person increases the likelihood that you will be taking advantage of other people rather than the other way around, so if you are a "shitty" person you are less likely to date "shitty" people. No, I'm saying it will be a shitty relationship. There's 2 people in 1. It's like a prisoner's dilemma thing. Either you can be a worse person or they can be a better one. Otherwise you're both in for some shit. Your assumption here is that in any relationship, one partner rises to the level of the other and/or one partner sinks to the level of the other. You have absolutely no basis for that assumption, aside from possibly too many romance movies. There is also the assumption that having a new partner lined up before ending it with the previous one makes you a shitty person. It doesn't. It stings. Trust me I know it does, but it doesn't make her a bad person you should harbor resentment for. It makes you a shitty person if the other person is unaware that this is acceptable behavior in your relationship. And while this varies across cultures, I would argue that this is typically not considered acceptable in modern first-world societies unless specified beforehand. I don't care what any particular society expects. If following society's rules is the primary concern then fine, but realize this: Every society has these constructs that protect men from jealousy. The problem is that they are all misogynistic in nature, designed to control women with guilt under the guise of moral and religion, so that they may not wield the power of sexual jealousy over men. I refuse to obey such archaic, unnatural and evil constructs. They became obsolete with the condom. Jealousy is an illusion.It is simply your brain giving you a chemical signal, so that you focus your time and resources on your own offspring. Not having this response increases the risk of raising another male's offspring and thus not efficiently reproducing yourself. It is a chemical response to an ancient problem we no longer face, and yet it so severely limits our life, if we let it. Learning to handle jealousy makes you a better man and gives you a more fulfilling love life with less drama. No jealousy means no shame, guilt or inhibition. Conquering jealousy is no easy task, but then most worthwhile tasks in life aren't. Without jealousy, you are sad to see the girl go, but glad she has found someone who makes her happy, and glad you got to fuck her while she looked around. Without jealousy she can even be honest about it, and you too can see other people. It's just better that way. No anger, resentment or drama. Just love. While I generally take a similar viewpoint on jealousy, there is a difference between an agreed-upon open relationship and an open relationship that only one partner is aware of. So its the fact that our hypothetical girl waited too long to break up. The break up was happening anyway, so I don't really see much difference. How does it hurt the person being left more? Simply because a violation of an existing contract does not end up hurting anyone doesn't change the fact that the contract was violated. You're just rationalizing away shitty behavior by examining the consequences, but that's not how ethical systems work. If something is dishonest behavior, then it is dishonest regardless of whether anyone was hurt by it.
We have philosophical differences regarding right and wrong then. I'm more concerned with consequences than technicalities.
|
On August 13 2013 08:08 Killscreen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:04 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:01 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:55 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 06:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 04:22 sunprince wrote:On August 12 2013 19:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 12 2013 08:40 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 23:45 BisuEver wrote:On August 10 2013 19:03 sunprince wrote:[quote] Just-world fallacy. If anything, you've got it backwards: being a bad person increases the likelihood that you will be taking advantage of other people rather than the other way around, so if you are a "shitty" person you are less likely to date "shitty" people. No, I'm saying it will be a shitty relationship. There's 2 people in 1. It's like a prisoner's dilemma thing. Either you can be a worse person or they can be a better one. Otherwise you're both in for some shit. Your assumption here is that in any relationship, one partner rises to the level of the other and/or one partner sinks to the level of the other. You have absolutely no basis for that assumption, aside from possibly too many romance movies. There is also the assumption that having a new partner lined up before ending it with the previous one makes you a shitty person. It doesn't. It stings. Trust me I know it does, but it doesn't make her a bad person you should harbor resentment for. It makes you a shitty person if the other person is unaware that this is acceptable behavior in your relationship. And while this varies across cultures, I would argue that this is typically not considered acceptable in modern first-world societies unless specified beforehand. I don't care what any particular society expects. If following society's rules is the primary concern then fine, but realize this: Every society has these constructs that protect men from jealousy. The problem is that they are all misogynistic in nature, designed to control women with guilt under the guise of moral and religion, so that they may not wield the power of sexual jealousy over men. I refuse to obey such archaic, unnatural and evil constructs. They became obsolete with the condom. Jealousy is an illusion.It is simply your brain giving you a chemical signal, so that you focus your time and resources on your own offspring. Not having this response increases the risk of raising another male's offspring and thus not efficiently reproducing yourself. It is a chemical response to an ancient problem we no longer face, and yet it so severely limits our life, if we let it. Learning to handle jealousy makes you a better man and gives you a more fulfilling love life with less drama. No jealousy means no shame, guilt or inhibition. Conquering jealousy is no easy task, but then most worthwhile tasks in life aren't. Without jealousy, you are sad to see the girl go, but glad she has found someone who makes her happy, and glad you got to fuck her while she looked around. Without jealousy she can even be honest about it, and you too can see other people. It's just better that way. No anger, resentment or drama. Just love. While I generally take a similar viewpoint on jealousy, there is a difference between an agreed-upon open relationship and an open relationship that only one partner is aware of. So its the fact that our hypothetical girl waited too long to break up. The break up was happening anyway, so I don't really see much difference. How does it hurt the person being left more? Simply because a violation of an existing contract does not end up hurting anyone doesn't change the fact that the contract was violated. You're just rationalizing away shitty behavior by examining the consequences, but that's not how ethical systems work. If something is dishonest behavior, then it is dishonest regardless of whether anyone was hurt by it. We have philosophical differences regarding right and wrong then. I'm more concerned with consequences than technicalities.
You'd never get a job as an engineer, lawyer or doctor in Canada.
|
On August 13 2013 08:13 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:08 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 08:04 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:01 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:55 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 06:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 04:22 sunprince wrote:On August 12 2013 19:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 12 2013 08:40 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 23:45 BisuEver wrote:
[quote]
No, I'm saying it will be a shitty relationship. There's 2 people in 1. It's like a prisoner's dilemma thing.
Either you can be a worse person or they can be a better one. Otherwise you're both in for some shit. Your assumption here is that in any relationship, one partner rises to the level of the other and/or one partner sinks to the level of the other. You have absolutely no basis for that assumption, aside from possibly too many romance movies. There is also the assumption that having a new partner lined up before ending it with the previous one makes you a shitty person. It doesn't. It stings. Trust me I know it does, but it doesn't make her a bad person you should harbor resentment for. It makes you a shitty person if the other person is unaware that this is acceptable behavior in your relationship. And while this varies across cultures, I would argue that this is typically not considered acceptable in modern first-world societies unless specified beforehand. I don't care what any particular society expects. If following society's rules is the primary concern then fine, but realize this: Every society has these constructs that protect men from jealousy. The problem is that they are all misogynistic in nature, designed to control women with guilt under the guise of moral and religion, so that they may not wield the power of sexual jealousy over men. I refuse to obey such archaic, unnatural and evil constructs. They became obsolete with the condom. Jealousy is an illusion.It is simply your brain giving you a chemical signal, so that you focus your time and resources on your own offspring. Not having this response increases the risk of raising another male's offspring and thus not efficiently reproducing yourself. It is a chemical response to an ancient problem we no longer face, and yet it so severely limits our life, if we let it. Learning to handle jealousy makes you a better man and gives you a more fulfilling love life with less drama. No jealousy means no shame, guilt or inhibition. Conquering jealousy is no easy task, but then most worthwhile tasks in life aren't. Without jealousy, you are sad to see the girl go, but glad she has found someone who makes her happy, and glad you got to fuck her while she looked around. Without jealousy she can even be honest about it, and you too can see other people. It's just better that way. No anger, resentment or drama. Just love. While I generally take a similar viewpoint on jealousy, there is a difference between an agreed-upon open relationship and an open relationship that only one partner is aware of. So its the fact that our hypothetical girl waited too long to break up. The break up was happening anyway, so I don't really see much difference. How does it hurt the person being left more? Simply because a violation of an existing contract does not end up hurting anyone doesn't change the fact that the contract was violated. You're just rationalizing away shitty behavior by examining the consequences, but that's not how ethical systems work. If something is dishonest behavior, then it is dishonest regardless of whether anyone was hurt by it. We have philosophical differences regarding right and wrong then. I'm more concerned with consequences than technicalities. You'd never get a job as an engineer, lawyer or doctor in Canada.
Thank god for Norway then!
|
|
|
Sunprince is killin it right now yoooo
|
On August 13 2013 08:24 QuanticHawk wrote:
Sunprince is killin it right now yoooo
Yeah, stick to cheer leading. You're a better at it than debating, and I bet you look just adorable in that outfit.
|
On August 13 2013 08:08 Killscreen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:04 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:01 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:55 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 06:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 04:22 sunprince wrote:On August 12 2013 19:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 12 2013 08:40 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 23:45 BisuEver wrote:On August 10 2013 19:03 sunprince wrote:[quote] Just-world fallacy. If anything, you've got it backwards: being a bad person increases the likelihood that you will be taking advantage of other people rather than the other way around, so if you are a "shitty" person you are less likely to date "shitty" people. No, I'm saying it will be a shitty relationship. There's 2 people in 1. It's like a prisoner's dilemma thing. Either you can be a worse person or they can be a better one. Otherwise you're both in for some shit. Your assumption here is that in any relationship, one partner rises to the level of the other and/or one partner sinks to the level of the other. You have absolutely no basis for that assumption, aside from possibly too many romance movies. There is also the assumption that having a new partner lined up before ending it with the previous one makes you a shitty person. It doesn't. It stings. Trust me I know it does, but it doesn't make her a bad person you should harbor resentment for. It makes you a shitty person if the other person is unaware that this is acceptable behavior in your relationship. And while this varies across cultures, I would argue that this is typically not considered acceptable in modern first-world societies unless specified beforehand. I don't care what any particular society expects. If following society's rules is the primary concern then fine, but realize this: Every society has these constructs that protect men from jealousy. The problem is that they are all misogynistic in nature, designed to control women with guilt under the guise of moral and religion, so that they may not wield the power of sexual jealousy over men. I refuse to obey such archaic, unnatural and evil constructs. They became obsolete with the condom. Jealousy is an illusion.It is simply your brain giving you a chemical signal, so that you focus your time and resources on your own offspring. Not having this response increases the risk of raising another male's offspring and thus not efficiently reproducing yourself. It is a chemical response to an ancient problem we no longer face, and yet it so severely limits our life, if we let it. Learning to handle jealousy makes you a better man and gives you a more fulfilling love life with less drama. No jealousy means no shame, guilt or inhibition. Conquering jealousy is no easy task, but then most worthwhile tasks in life aren't. Without jealousy, you are sad to see the girl go, but glad she has found someone who makes her happy, and glad you got to fuck her while she looked around. Without jealousy she can even be honest about it, and you too can see other people. It's just better that way. No anger, resentment or drama. Just love. While I generally take a similar viewpoint on jealousy, there is a difference between an agreed-upon open relationship and an open relationship that only one partner is aware of. So its the fact that our hypothetical girl waited too long to break up. The break up was happening anyway, so I don't really see much difference. How does it hurt the person being left more? Simply because a violation of an existing contract does not end up hurting anyone doesn't change the fact that the contract was violated. You're just rationalizing away shitty behavior by examining the consequences, but that's not how ethical systems work. If something is dishonest behavior, then it is dishonest regardless of whether anyone was hurt by it. We have philosophical differences regarding right and wrong then. I'm more concerned with consequences than technicalities.
Wait. Are you saying that you think there's nothing wrong with being dishonest as long as there are no consequences?
|
On August 13 2013 08:45 maggle wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:08 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 08:04 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 08:01 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 07:55 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 06:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 04:22 sunprince wrote:On August 12 2013 19:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 12 2013 08:40 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 23:45 BisuEver wrote:
[quote]
No, I'm saying it will be a shitty relationship. There's 2 people in 1. It's like a prisoner's dilemma thing.
Either you can be a worse person or they can be a better one. Otherwise you're both in for some shit. Your assumption here is that in any relationship, one partner rises to the level of the other and/or one partner sinks to the level of the other. You have absolutely no basis for that assumption, aside from possibly too many romance movies. There is also the assumption that having a new partner lined up before ending it with the previous one makes you a shitty person. It doesn't. It stings. Trust me I know it does, but it doesn't make her a bad person you should harbor resentment for. It makes you a shitty person if the other person is unaware that this is acceptable behavior in your relationship. And while this varies across cultures, I would argue that this is typically not considered acceptable in modern first-world societies unless specified beforehand. I don't care what any particular society expects. If following society's rules is the primary concern then fine, but realize this: Every society has these constructs that protect men from jealousy. The problem is that they are all misogynistic in nature, designed to control women with guilt under the guise of moral and religion, so that they may not wield the power of sexual jealousy over men. I refuse to obey such archaic, unnatural and evil constructs. They became obsolete with the condom. Jealousy is an illusion.It is simply your brain giving you a chemical signal, so that you focus your time and resources on your own offspring. Not having this response increases the risk of raising another male's offspring and thus not efficiently reproducing yourself. It is a chemical response to an ancient problem we no longer face, and yet it so severely limits our life, if we let it. Learning to handle jealousy makes you a better man and gives you a more fulfilling love life with less drama. No jealousy means no shame, guilt or inhibition. Conquering jealousy is no easy task, but then most worthwhile tasks in life aren't. Without jealousy, you are sad to see the girl go, but glad she has found someone who makes her happy, and glad you got to fuck her while she looked around. Without jealousy she can even be honest about it, and you too can see other people. It's just better that way. No anger, resentment or drama. Just love. While I generally take a similar viewpoint on jealousy, there is a difference between an agreed-upon open relationship and an open relationship that only one partner is aware of. So its the fact that our hypothetical girl waited too long to break up. The break up was happening anyway, so I don't really see much difference. How does it hurt the person being left more? Simply because a violation of an existing contract does not end up hurting anyone doesn't change the fact that the contract was violated. You're just rationalizing away shitty behavior by examining the consequences, but that's not how ethical systems work. If something is dishonest behavior, then it is dishonest regardless of whether anyone was hurt by it. We have philosophical differences regarding right and wrong then. I'm more concerned with consequences than technicalities. Wait. Are you saying that you think there's nothing wrong with being dishonest as long as there are no consequences?
I think it depends on what's being lied about. There are situations where I would want to be lied to.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
