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On March 07 2011 13:54 RowdierBob wrote: Probably the same reason I watch the Bucks :'( I bet you watch the Bucks because of Bogut, doubt that's the same reason for him!
I've been rooting for Miami to lose lately so thy don't catch up to the C's, but now I'm just scared of the bulls :S
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On March 07 2011 14:52 cma1681 wrote:I've gotta say the Warriors have one of the most exciting teams to watch today. They remind me of the mid-2000s Nuggets with Iverson and Anthony running the team. No defense, high scoring, fun as hell to watch.
Yeah but it's frustrating as hell to watch them lose. I mean it's something I'm use to now, but I feel like they're on the brink of turning it around, and then they go 1-6 after the All-Star break losing vs mostly beatable teams.
Tonight's game pretty much epitomizes their season. Coming back down 18 points to tie it up. We got really lucky when they didn't foul Monta and he got the 3 off in the last 5 seconds of the game. Then we suck it up in OT. It's just painful to watch.
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On March 07 2011 13:05 sixghost wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 10:14 slyboogie wrote:On March 07 2011 09:28 Dr.Dragoon wrote: Humility beats toughness? D: This is the crap that I can not stand from sportswriters. I mean how does D-Rose's "HUMILITY" translate in an individual basketball sense? Are they saying that Wade is somehow selfish? Because he and Brandon Roy have been the best passing 2 guards over the last 3 years. Even this crap about locker room chemistry is grating. The way that guys like Bill Simmons and Mike Wilbon absolutely anoint this guy is so silly. "He does it the right way!" "His teammates love him!" I actually find Derrick Rose to be incredibly boring, his lack of charisma is totally shocking, especially when juxtaposed with this "on the court" style. Humility. Ridiculous. Watch professional wrestling if you need stars to have outsized personalities.
I understand that people don't love it when their athletes talk a lot or show personality. But the reality is that without a cohesive narrative and effective actors, things get boring. That doesn't mean every basketball player needs to be Stephen Jackson or Dwight Howard but I like when the athletes I watch express themselves and when we can attach certain ideas to players. Charisma is the tool that allows the viewer to connect with the watched, not just appreciate. Personality does not mean a lack of humility!
You must have a team you enjoy? Their personalities don't matter to you?
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On March 07 2011 15:18 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 13:05 sixghost wrote:On March 07 2011 10:14 slyboogie wrote:On March 07 2011 09:28 Dr.Dragoon wrote: Humility beats toughness? D: This is the crap that I can not stand from sportswriters. I mean how does D-Rose's "HUMILITY" translate in an individual basketball sense? Are they saying that Wade is somehow selfish? Because he and Brandon Roy have been the best passing 2 guards over the last 3 years. Even this crap about locker room chemistry is grating. The way that guys like Bill Simmons and Mike Wilbon absolutely anoint this guy is so silly. "He does it the right way!" "His teammates love him!" I actually find Derrick Rose to be incredibly boring, his lack of charisma is totally shocking, especially when juxtaposed with this "on the court" style. Humility. Ridiculous. Watch professional wrestling if you need stars to have outsized personalities. I understand that people don't love it when their athletes talk a lot or show personality. But the reality is that without a cohesive narrative and effective actors, things get boring. That doesn't mean every basketball player needs to be Stephen Jackson or Dwight Howard but I like when the athletes I watch express themselves and when we can attach certain ideas to players. Charisma is the tool that allows the viewer to connect with the watched, not just appreciate. Personality does not mean a lack of humility! You must have a team you enjoy? Their personalities don't matter to you?
I absolutely agree! When it comes down to it, sports are a form of entertainment. One of my beefs with the NFL is that players aren't allowed to celebrate excessively after scoring a touchdown, and they've been fined up to 15k for things like making snow angels. Seriously?
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On March 07 2011 13:05 sixghost wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 10:14 slyboogie wrote:On March 07 2011 09:28 Dr.Dragoon wrote: Humility beats toughness? D: This is the crap that I can not stand from sportswriters. I mean how does D-Rose's "HUMILITY" translate in an individual basketball sense? Are they saying that Wade is somehow selfish? Because he and Brandon Roy have been the best passing 2 guards over the last 3 years. Even this crap about locker room chemistry is grating. The way that guys like Bill Simmons and Mike Wilbon absolutely anoint this guy is so silly. "He does it the right way!" "His teammates love him!" I actually find Derrick Rose to be incredibly boring, his lack of charisma is totally shocking, especially when juxtaposed with this "on the court" style. Humility. Ridiculous. Watch professional wrestling if you need stars to have outsized personalities.
Wait what now?
So you like it when people have absolutely no personality, don't show any confidence in their own abilities, and are really really boring people because they as may well be robots for all the humanity they show?
I always thought that was what...BW in Korea was lacking for instance. Everyone was SOO modest and it was so fucking boring. I knew people in the BW scene more for their individual play style than their attributes as a person...because a lot of them didn't have any.
Luckily the NBA doesn't suffer that same problem and because of that we get nice delicious fireworks when rivalries clash. You don't need outsized personalities but let's be honest here...
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The scary thing about Rose is he's so young. He has plenty of time to grow in future seasons.
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United States4471 Posts
I agree that the Rose-Wade comparison article was pretty meaningless and very questionable.
However, I just want to put in my two cents about the idea that Rose being so stoic and not displaying much "personality" should be held against him. Of course it'd be nice if he was more personable and outspoken, but he's not and his team will market him just fine regardless. It would be a problem if his quiet, stoic demeanor impaired his ability to lead his team, but I think we've seen evidence that that's not the case. Rose is a lead by example type, and that's just as respectable in my mind as someone who is a very vocal leader. I think Duncan is a great example of this. Even KG, who is known for screaming at his teammates, does a lot of his inspiring by just working his ass off and showing how much he cares on the court. In that regard, Rose's play and continued improvements in his game speak very loudly.
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On March 08 2011 03:24 XaI)CyRiC wrote: I agree that the Rose-Wade comparison article was pretty meaningless and very questionable.
However, I just want to put in my two cents about the idea that Rose being so stoic and not displaying much "personality" should be held against him. Of course it'd be nice if he was more personable and outspoken, but he's not and his team will market him just fine regardless. It would be a problem if his quiet, stoic demeanor impaired his ability to lead his team, but I think we've seen evidence that that's not the case. Rose is a lead by example type, and that's just as respectable in my mind as someone who is a very vocal leader. I think Duncan is a great example of this. Even KG, who is known for screaming at his teammates, does a lot of his inspiring by just working his ass off and showing how much he cares on the court. In that regard, Rose's play and continued improvements in his game speak very loudly.
Yes, this is a very fair point. Rose's on the court game is outstanding; we can argue about where he ranks but everyone here should acknowledge that he is an excellent player and that we are debating on the margins of place in the NBA. I admit that I probably lashed out against him too much...but he really is boring. Tim Duncan is actually really funny, if you like that dry style of humor, in an interview he's kind of like Kobe, except with the constant self reverence and projected superiority (not a shot at him, I like both players.)
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On March 07 2011 19:35 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 13:05 sixghost wrote:On March 07 2011 10:14 slyboogie wrote:On March 07 2011 09:28 Dr.Dragoon wrote: Humility beats toughness? D: This is the crap that I can not stand from sportswriters. I mean how does D-Rose's "HUMILITY" translate in an individual basketball sense? Are they saying that Wade is somehow selfish? Because he and Brandon Roy have been the best passing 2 guards over the last 3 years. Even this crap about locker room chemistry is grating. The way that guys like Bill Simmons and Mike Wilbon absolutely anoint this guy is so silly. "He does it the right way!" "His teammates love him!" I actually find Derrick Rose to be incredibly boring, his lack of charisma is totally shocking, especially when juxtaposed with this "on the court" style. Humility. Ridiculous. Watch professional wrestling if you need stars to have outsized personalities. Wait what now? So you like it when people have absolutely no personality, don't show any confidence in their own abilities, and are really really boring people because they as may well be robots for all the humanity they show? I always thought that was what...BW in Korea was lacking for instance. Everyone was SOO modest and it was so fucking boring. I knew people in the BW scene more for their individual play style than their attributes as a person...because a lot of them didn't have any. Luckily the NBA doesn't suffer that same problem and because of that we get nice delicious fireworks when rivalries clash. You don't need outsized personalities but let's be honest here...
D-Rose's game speaks for itself. And his humility and shy personality is a breath of fresh air in a league full of cocky self-absorbed idiots. That's just my opinion.
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there aren't that many "cocky, self absorbed" idiots in the NBA. Especially at the super star level. With the exception of Lebron for one major incident and maybe Kobe (who isn't as cocky as people think) who else fits that description?
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I think there're more than you'd think. Amare and Melo have given that impression, historically people like AI, Marbury, and even to an extent Jordan. Trickle down to other players and you get people like JR Smith, Nick Young, Chris Bosh, etc. all of whom have inflated egos and perceptions of their own game. Whether these people are entirely "cocky [and] self-absorbed" is debatable because we don't actually know them, but most NBA players, especially the stars, don't really give the impression of being good teammates, or at least when they try to give the impression of being good teammates they often sound more like unauthentic lip service. Like Lebron.
Edit: Incidentally I think role players are much less likely to give off this impression than star players, often because they've been bludgeoned into forced recognition of their own not-star-ness, and so are more likely to have humility, play hard, and be good teammates (or else they'd find themselves by the road side).
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The obvious answer would be Melo, but i cant think of many more. Most confidence can come across as cocky/self absorbed so arguements could be made for a lot of players.
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On March 07 2011 15:18 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 13:05 sixghost wrote:On March 07 2011 10:14 slyboogie wrote:On March 07 2011 09:28 Dr.Dragoon wrote: Humility beats toughness? D: This is the crap that I can not stand from sportswriters. I mean how does D-Rose's "HUMILITY" translate in an individual basketball sense? Are they saying that Wade is somehow selfish? Because he and Brandon Roy have been the best passing 2 guards over the last 3 years. Even this crap about locker room chemistry is grating. The way that guys like Bill Simmons and Mike Wilbon absolutely anoint this guy is so silly. "He does it the right way!" "His teammates love him!" I actually find Derrick Rose to be incredibly boring, his lack of charisma is totally shocking, especially when juxtaposed with this "on the court" style. Humility. Ridiculous. Watch professional wrestling if you need stars to have outsized personalities. I understand that people don't love it when their athletes talk a lot or show personality. But the reality is that without a cohesive narrative and effective actors, things get boring. That doesn't mean every basketball player needs to be Stephen Jackson or Dwight Howard but I like when the athletes I watch express themselves and when we can attach certain ideas to players. Charisma is the tool that allows the viewer to connect with the watched, not just appreciate. Personality does not mean a lack of humility! You must have a team you enjoy? Their personalities don't matter to you? I'm a bulls fan. Don't confuse someone being shy and humble with them not having a personality or not being charismatic. Players don't need to act like clowns for me to find them interesting.
Also, it's not like he's a robot. It just doesn't seem like he is very comfortable being interviewed yet. Watch him during the actual games, or during timeouts and you'll see him express himself more. For instance toward the end of the 2nd Heat game when he ran down the court screaming at the crowd after putting them up 5.
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On March 08 2011 05:13 Southlight wrote: I think there're more than you'd think. Amare and Melo have given that impression, historically people like AI, Marbury, and even to an extent Jordan. Trickle down to other players and you get people like JR Smith, Nick Young, Chris Bosh, etc. all of whom have inflated egos and perceptions of their own game. Whether these people are entirely "cocky [and] self-absorbed" is debatable because we don't actually know them, but most NBA players, especially the stars, don't really give the impression of being good teammates, or at least when they try to give the impression of being good teammates they often sound more like unauthentic lip service. Like Lebron.
Edit: Incidentally I think role players are much less likely to give off this impression than star players, often because they've been bludgeoned into forced recognition of their own not-star-ness, and so are more likely to have humility, play hard, and be good teammates (or else they'd find themselves by the road side).
Jordan was a total asshole. He's deified because of his sheer greatness (rightfully so,) but I doubt anyone would say he was humble, quiet and empathetic. I am not all together disagreeing with you but I think that fans have this habit of perceiving insincerity in a player, while denouncing that same player's vanity. My question is the same as your statement, how the hell does anybody know?
Also, by putting Nick Young next to JR Smith, you've exposed the biggest problem in applying character traits to athletes. JR and Young have very very similar games: shoot, TO, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, TO, shoot, TO. As fans, we ascribe the persona of selfishness and cockiness to both players, but is this true? From word of mouth, they are not all that alike in personality.
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I've no idea, it's why I made a point of using the word impression, as I don't profess to know But yeah, there's definitely more an expectation of SG/SF/PF being cocky than a PG or C. Players who aren't gun-shy are more likely to come off as cocky, but then again a similar study was performed for the NFL/NCAAF, wherein wide receivers were significantly more likely to be brash, me-first people, because of the position and its demands.
As to JR Smith and Nick Young, I dunno about their off-court personalities but at least on the court they've both sounded (personally) like young shoot-first ask questions, listen, or defend some other time guys who complain about playing time. Both have also improved in those regards as they've aged, but that goes back to my "bludgeoned by the not-superstar mace of reality," hahah.
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On March 07 2011 19:35 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2011 13:05 sixghost wrote:On March 07 2011 10:14 slyboogie wrote:On March 07 2011 09:28 Dr.Dragoon wrote: Humility beats toughness? D: This is the crap that I can not stand from sportswriters. I mean how does D-Rose's "HUMILITY" translate in an individual basketball sense? Are they saying that Wade is somehow selfish? Because he and Brandon Roy have been the best passing 2 guards over the last 3 years. Even this crap about locker room chemistry is grating. The way that guys like Bill Simmons and Mike Wilbon absolutely anoint this guy is so silly. "He does it the right way!" "His teammates love him!" I actually find Derrick Rose to be incredibly boring, his lack of charisma is totally shocking, especially when juxtaposed with this "on the court" style. Humility. Ridiculous. Watch professional wrestling if you need stars to have outsized personalities. Wait what now? So you like it when people have absolutely no personality, don't show any confidence in their own abilities, and are really really boring people because they as may well be robots for all the humanity they show? I always thought that was what...BW in Korea was lacking for instance. Everyone was SOO modest and it was so fucking boring. I knew people in the BW scene more for their individual play style than their attributes as a person...because a lot of them didn't have any. Luckily the NBA doesn't suffer that same problem and because of that we get nice delicious fireworks when rivalries clash. You don't need outsized personalities but let's be honest here... I wouldn't want every player in the NBA to have the same demeanor as him, but that doesn't mean that he's boring. I don't know why people put so much emphasis on what people say in interviews, yet disregard 3/4 of a season's worth of actions. How could you possibly say he lacks confidence in his ability, have you ever seen him play?
I don't care how many times he says that he doesn't think he's the MVP, or that he's not sure if they can win the title, that's not what he really thinks.
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I'm a bulls fan. Don't confuse someone being shy and humble with them not having a personality or not being charismatic. Players don't need to act like clowns for me to find them interesting.
Also, it's not like he's a robot. It just doesn't seem like he is very comfortable being interviewed yet. Watch him during the actual games, or during timeouts and you'll see him express himself more. For instance toward the end of the 2nd Heat game when he ran down the court screaming at the crowd after putting them up 5.
I wouldn't want every player in the NBA to have the same demeanor as him, but that doesn't mean that he's boring. I don't know why people put so much emphasis on what people say in interviews, yet disregard 3/4 of a season's worth of actions. How could you possibly say he lacks confidence in his ability, have you ever seen him play?
I don't care how many times he says that he doesn't think he's the MVP, or that he's not sure if they can win the title, that's not what he really thinks.
I'm sure that Rose has a personality, he seems like a nice guy and I do like his on-the-court chemistry with Joakim Noah. But, let me say that I definitely do not find him charismatic. His lack of charisma does not hurt his solid handles, explosiveness or sheer scoring ability - it just doesn't induce a guy living in Los Angeles to become a fan, beyond his abilities.
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On March 08 2011 05:08 Ace wrote: there aren't that many "cocky, self absorbed" idiots in the NBA. Especially at the super star level. With the exception of Lebron for one major incident and maybe Kobe (who isn't as cocky as people think) who else fits that description?
My question to you is, who doesn't fit that description (top-tier players)?
From my perspective, I can only count a few superstars that are genuinely humble and down to earth. This really isn't their fault though, as they are treated like gods everywhere they go. I'm just saying it is nice to see NBA superstars who doesn't fit into the stereotype of an NBA player with a Rosie-O-Donnell-sized ego.
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well thats easy to answer since they are my favourite players !
ray allen, brandon roy, steve nash, dirk, tim duncan, danny granger, kevin durant, tayshaun prince, the list goes on im just to lazy to continue.
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On March 08 2011 06:08 Holcan wrote: well thats easy to answer since they are my favourite players !
ray allen, brandon roy, steve nash, dirk, tim duncan, danny granger, kevin durant, tayshaun prince, the list goes on im just to lazy to continue.
I'm talking about the top-tier players. I'll give you Durant, Duncan, and Ray-Ray. Nash and Dirk both are cocky, in their own unique way.
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