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On August 02 2011 04:58 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:54 DDie wrote:On August 02 2011 04:47 zeru wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 DDie wrote:
I feel disgusted and betrayed, Diablo is not dead, no sir, its not even a game anymore, its a job(not a esport).
People will not play because its fun, because its thrilling, they will not play because its diablo. People will play to find godly gear and sell it, and all gear will be bought by chinese farmers(you know then) which will re-sell at atrocious prices.
Seriously, we all waited 10 years for this piece of garbage? This is a slap on the face of the community.
""here here, 99p legendary chinese store, kick ass, TODAY''''
ps: I got banned from Battle.net forums for posting this, this pretty much shows whats blizzards view on this subject Because you couldnt sell gear in diablo 2...? Blizzard know what they are doing. They havent had a single game that wasnt a huge success for over 15 years. People complaining on forums that some features are shitty and are gonna break the game they havent even played in any way are clueless. Its not a feature that is shitty, its THE feature, and its not shitty, its complete GARBAGE. Please, we are not alienated or stupid, we don't need to play the game to actually know what works or don't. Either way, i've already said why this will ruin D3 economy, apparently you missed. Argument from ignorance, sir, look it up, it's what you are doing. You don't the AH will affect the economy, and im pretty sure blizzard knows better than you.
No, apparently Blizzard doesn't know better than me, and thats why Blizzard is one of the best in the market, because they listen to the customers. (and mind you, its not only me, the entire Diablo community is at war in the battle.net forums)
There's absolutely no separation between the player who access the gold AH and those who access the cash AH, skilled auctioneers (whether from WoW or Ebay or whatever), Chinese Farmers, and so on will buy any items that are appropriately priced from the gold AH, and then re-sell them on the cash AH. That's not a theory. It will happen.
First, you cannot practically maintain an economy that has two currencies for each item. One will always be favored and the other will be used rarely, if at all. Strong sellers will dominate the AH. The same faculty that drives strong sellers to play that role will naturally compel them to use the RMAH. Thus the in-game gold AH becomes a scrap-dump.
Second, comparing item selling in any other game to this one is short-sighted. If the game is actually fun to play, and the economy actually WORKS well, people will not feel compelled to skip content and uber up with real money. But by ENCOURAGING people to buy items and, necessarily, skip over the actual gameplay, Blizzard is admitting defeat. They're saying "Well, the actual fun of this game resides in HAVING good gear, not OBTAINING good gear." Any game designer that admits as much is a pathetic game designer.
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The same people freaking out now, will be standing in line getting their copy of Diablo 3 on release day. It's been revealed in several occasions (WoW, Battlefield: Heroes, among others) that whenever players completely freak out about something they haven't seen in action, yet, they never follow through on their plans to boycott. The fact that you post on forums about the thing, means you're already a guaranteed customer.
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On August 02 2011 05:00 Probe1 wrote:
What's the controversy here? You can buy characters and items for D2 without Blizzards help. It will be the same way in D3. But if Blizzard incorporates it.. then its a catastrophe!
It has always been a catastrophe, as it ruins the game. They should enforce the rules that forbid it, not endorse it themselves.
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On August 02 2011 05:05 Bibdy wrote:
The same people freaking out now, will be standing in line getting their copy of Diablo 3 on release day. It's been revealed in several occasions (WoW, Battlefield: Heroes, among others) that whenever players completely freak out about something they haven't seen in action, yet, they never follow through on their plans to boycott. The fact that you post on forums about the thing, means you're already a guaranteed customer.
Wait, who played battlefield heroes? I dont think they even needed a boycott.
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I see all this as good news. They had to do something about the economy and the market seems like a very good way to please everyone.
Diablo have never competitive anyway and dedicated ppl still have Hardcore.
Now let's see if you can compete at the top of arena without investing billions of hours or money.
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On August 02 2011 05:00 Shai wrote:
I was excited for this game until today, the day I was supposed to go head over heels. The whole RMAH thing is making this a non-purchase for me. I don't know who's apparently making these "Demands." For those of you who relate this to DLC - I don't buy DLC, and if I suspect a game is going to have DLC I don't buy the game. I want to own the whole game, and the whole game should not cost more than the 60 bucks.
I have been just dandy with every change to Diablo 3. I don't care about how they give us the skills, or the classes, or how crafting works. I was going to put another 500 hours into this game. However, now, it's not even worth it. If you aren't a Chinese child/inmate you won't be able to under price enough to sell.
Seriously Blizzard. I've owned every PC game and expansion of yours until now. Have fun in the future, hope we hook up some time.
LOL. You say you don't buy games with DLC and then go ahead and say you've bought every expansion for their games. Here's an update for you: DLC and Expansions are the same exact thing, but someone called it a different name.
Get off your high horse. The RMAH won't effect your experience of play one eth rune if you don't use it (especially if you play hardcore) and you will still be able to trade items for items without requiring real life money.
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On August 02 2011 05:07 Phayze wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 05:05 Bibdy wrote:
The same people freaking out now, will be standing in line getting their copy of Diablo 3 on release day. It's been revealed in several occasions (WoW, Battlefield: Heroes, among others) that whenever players completely freak out about something they haven't seen in action, yet, they never follow through on their plans to boycott. The fact that you post on forums about the thing, means you're already a guaranteed customer. Wait, who played battlefield heroes? I dont think they even needed a boycott.
About 2 million unique users monthly.
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On August 02 2011 05:02 DDie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:58 zeru wrote:On August 02 2011 04:54 DDie wrote:On August 02 2011 04:47 zeru wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 DDie wrote:
I feel disgusted and betrayed, Diablo is not dead, no sir, its not even a game anymore, its a job(not a esport).
People will not play because its fun, because its thrilling, they will not play because its diablo. People will play to find godly gear and sell it, and all gear will be bought by chinese farmers(you know then) which will re-sell at atrocious prices.
Seriously, we all waited 10 years for this piece of garbage? This is a slap on the face of the community.
""here here, 99p legendary chinese store, kick ass, TODAY''''
ps: I got banned from Battle.net forums for posting this, this pretty much shows whats blizzards view on this subject Because you couldnt sell gear in diablo 2...? Blizzard know what they are doing. They havent had a single game that wasnt a huge success for over 15 years. People complaining on forums that some features are shitty and are gonna break the game they havent even played in any way are clueless. Its not a feature that is shitty, its THE feature, and its not shitty, its complete GARBAGE. Please, we are not alienated or stupid, we don't need to play the game to actually know what works or don't. Either way, i've already said why this will ruin D3 economy, apparently you missed. Argument from ignorance, sir, look it up, it's what you are doing. You don't the AH will affect the economy, and im pretty sure blizzard knows better than you. No, apparently Blizzard doesn't know better than me, and thats why Blizzard is one of the best in the market, because they listen to the customers. (and mind you, its not only me, the entire Diablo community is at war in the battle.net forums) There's absolutely no separation between the player who access the gold AH and those who access the cash AH, skilled auctioneers (whether from WoW or Ebay or whatever), Chinese Farmers, and so on will buy any items that are appropriately priced from the gold AH, and then re-sell them on the cash AH. That's not a theory. It will happen. First, you cannot practically maintain an economy that has two currencies for each item. One will always be favored and the other will be used rarely, if at all. Strong sellers will dominate the AH. The same faculty that drives strong sellers to play that role will naturally compel them to use the RMAH. Thus the in-game gold AH becomes a scrap-dump. Second, comparing item selling in any other game to this one is short-sighted. If the game is actually fun to play, and the economy actually WORKS well, people will not feel compelled to skip content and uber up with real money. But by ENCOURAGING people to buy items and, necessarily, skip over the actual gameplay, Blizzard is admitting defeat. They're saying "Well, the actual fun of this game resides in HAVING good gear, not OBTAINING good gear." Any game designer that admits as much is a pathetic game designer.
I'm having a hard time understanding how this is going to get in the way of your desire to work to obtain your gear. You don't have to buy anything to just appreciate the PvE part of the game.
Now, if you want to compete in PvP and take the arenas seriously (which are going to be a giant, imbalanced mess with or without cash trading, believe you me) then yeah, there's cause for concern there.
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@DDie
"Blizzard is admitting defeat. They're saying "Well, the actual fun of this game resides in HAVING good gear, not OBTAINING good gear." Any game designer that admits as much is a pathetic game designer."
I'm 100% with you!
@Bibdy
Yes, I will buy the game, because of single player, story, cinematics, casual cooperative games, as that is all going to be awesome. However I'm never gonna care about leveling and gearing up a character in a game that has the option to pay for stats.
Seriously, how pathetic is that? A game in which you pay real money to have more stats? It's like "hey, let's play chess, but I have 2 extra queens because I bought them!". It's a stupid idea at the very basic levels. It's just about paying to enlarge your e-pen.
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On August 02 2011 04:59 Aldehyde wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 04:35 TheRabidDeer wrote:On August 02 2011 04:01 Aldehyde wrote:On August 02 2011 03:59 SKC wrote:On August 02 2011 03:49 trias_e wrote:
Torchlight devs are having a bit of fun with this stuff:
I get the mods and LAN, but if you don't use the real money auction house the game still works the same way as Diablo 2 or probally Torchlight 2. Unless they are talking about expansion packs, Blizzard isn't really selling anything. Well, seeing as they announced all this shit today, I wouldn't be surprised to hear about a subscription on D3 as well. There were rumors going about subscriptions even for SC2. This doesnt even make sense when you use an ounce of logic. Announce auction house + rumors of subscription for SC2 (when these rumors ended up being entirely false) = OMG D3 WILL HAVE A SUBSCRIPTION Wait, what? No, it doesnt work that way! When did I say that it will? I was just saying that I wouldn't be surprised if they would add a subscription. Especially considering all the shit Blizzard has been pulling these last few years. You need some work on your reading comprehension.
If you wouldnt be surprised, then you have an expectation that it will. There is nothing that would logically follow that train of thought. Why would it have a subscription? Look at the facts, not the rumors
1) SC2 does not have a subscription
2) D3 is not an MMO
3) They are already working on another MMO, which will have a subscription (or some other details, depending on how things turn out in the changing scene of things for MMO's)
4) D3 is ran on Battle.net
What features does D3 have that would merit a subscription? None.
What actions have Blizzard done that would indicate a subscription? None.
You are being ridiculous.
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On August 02 2011 05:11 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 05:02 DDie wrote:On August 02 2011 04:58 zeru wrote:On August 02 2011 04:54 DDie wrote:On August 02 2011 04:47 zeru wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 DDie wrote:
I feel disgusted and betrayed, Diablo is not dead, no sir, its not even a game anymore, its a job(not a esport).
People will not play because its fun, because its thrilling, they will not play because its diablo. People will play to find godly gear and sell it, and all gear will be bought by chinese farmers(you know then) which will re-sell at atrocious prices.
Seriously, we all waited 10 years for this piece of garbage? This is a slap on the face of the community.
""here here, 99p legendary chinese store, kick ass, TODAY''''
ps: I got banned from Battle.net forums for posting this, this pretty much shows whats blizzards view on this subject Because you couldnt sell gear in diablo 2...? Blizzard know what they are doing. They havent had a single game that wasnt a huge success for over 15 years. People complaining on forums that some features are shitty and are gonna break the game they havent even played in any way are clueless. Its not a feature that is shitty, its THE feature, and its not shitty, its complete GARBAGE. Please, we are not alienated or stupid, we don't need to play the game to actually know what works or don't. Either way, i've already said why this will ruin D3 economy, apparently you missed. Argument from ignorance, sir, look it up, it's what you are doing. You don't the AH will affect the economy, and im pretty sure blizzard knows better than you. No, apparently Blizzard doesn't know better than me, and thats why Blizzard is one of the best in the market, because they listen to the customers. (and mind you, its not only me, the entire Diablo community is at war in the battle.net forums) There's absolutely no separation between the player who access the gold AH and those who access the cash AH, skilled auctioneers (whether from WoW or Ebay or whatever), Chinese Farmers, and so on will buy any items that are appropriately priced from the gold AH, and then re-sell them on the cash AH. That's not a theory. It will happen. First, you cannot practically maintain an economy that has two currencies for each item. One will always be favored and the other will be used rarely, if at all. Strong sellers will dominate the AH. The same faculty that drives strong sellers to play that role will naturally compel them to use the RMAH. Thus the in-game gold AH becomes a scrap-dump. Second, comparing item selling in any other game to this one is short-sighted. If the game is actually fun to play, and the economy actually WORKS well, people will not feel compelled to skip content and uber up with real money. But by ENCOURAGING people to buy items and, necessarily, skip over the actual gameplay, Blizzard is admitting defeat. They're saying "Well, the actual fun of this game resides in HAVING good gear, not OBTAINING good gear." Any game designer that admits as much is a pathetic game designer. I'm having a hard time understanding how this is going to get in the way of your desire to work to obtain your gear. You don't have to buy anything to just appreciate the PvE part of the game. Now, if you want to compete in PvP and take the arenas seriously (which are going to be a giant, imbalanced mess with or without cash trading, believe you me) then yeah, there's cause for concern there.
This get in they way of EVERYONE, have you ever played D2?! In game trading was a monumental aspect of the game, and now its ruined.
Yes, it doesn't stop me from farming my own gear, but please, what are the odds of me finding all the legendaries for my character? Slim, if that. Solution? Trade my other items for then... but why would anyone trade the legendaries i need for gold/items when they can sell then in the RMAH? They WON'T
And yes, i was looking forward for pvp... was...
ps: I'm not even talking about bots yet...
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On August 02 2011 04:50 DDie wrote:
You are not thinking this through, this affects EVERYONE.
The AH will be dominated by thousands of gold farmers who will outfarm you in every way, they will control the influx of legendary/set equipments, which will make your own legendary garbage, because they will always sell cheaper.
Also, the RMAH will be the dominat economy, everyone will sell uber shit on the RMAH, and the crap gear will remain on the GAH, in other words, you never have access to elite gear unless a) you find it yourself(in which case, you will sell it), b) you buy it for real money.
This wont happen because of how economies work together. In Diablo 3 we will have two separate currencies, gold and real life money. As well, since you can buy gold with real life money there will be an exchange rate no matter what.
We don't know if the exchange rate will be $1 for 1,000,000 gold or $1 for 2 gold. Either way that will translate to items.
If 10,000 gold is $10, then an item that is worth $10 you will be able to trade it for 10,000gold on the auction house... this will be true.
If it isn't true, and you can say buy the item for $10, then sell it for 100,000gold. You could then sell the 100,000 gold for $100 and make $90.
So that means that the values of gold and real money will be tied together. This means that selling an item on the RMAH or the GAH is equivalent.
- - - - - - -
Now lets assume that as soon as the game comes out, the RMAH is flooded with items and the GAH has very few items.
You have to look at why this happens. This happens because there are a lot of people selling and not a lot of people buying. As such, there will be a HUGE market for high level items on the GAH.
So then you can start listing powerful items at a LARGE markup. This lets you make a TONNE of gold that you can then sell on the RMAH.
This will drive the gold price on the GAH down, as smart traders will notice how much gold can be made on the GAH and sold on the RMAH. Someone will let this leak on a forum and the masses will start doing this.
This will lower the supply of items on the RMAH and will drive the prices up on the RMAH. As well, since more gold is being used on items this will drive the exchange rate up.
- - - - - -
Eventually, the two auction houses will come to an equilibrium. There will become a constant gold -> money and money -> gold exchange rate that will stabilize the economy of the game.
ACTUALLY, selling items on the GAH is BETTER than selling on the RMAH. As selling items on the GAH lets you by pass the listing and selling fees. You can then sell your Gold on the RMAH in one single trade. This saves you money and is the technically best way to cash out.
- - - - -
So don't worry, the game's economy will stabilize just fine and you won't find a 'Everything on RMAH nothing on GAH" because if that happens then people like me will make A LOT A LOT A LOT A LOT of money by playing the auction house.
With multiple currencies the game can no longer have a dead economy due to inflation, as there will always be an exchange rate be it $1 for 10 gold, 100 gold, 1,000 gold, 10,000 gold, 1,000,000,000 gold, 1,000,000,000,000,000 gold what ever... but the exchange rates carry over to the items as well and the RMAH.
 real world economics GO GO GO!
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On August 02 2011 05:17 DDie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 05:11 Bibdy wrote:On August 02 2011 05:02 DDie wrote:On August 02 2011 04:58 zeru wrote:On August 02 2011 04:54 DDie wrote:On August 02 2011 04:47 zeru wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 DDie wrote:
I feel disgusted and betrayed, Diablo is not dead, no sir, its not even a game anymore, its a job(not a esport).
People will not play because its fun, because its thrilling, they will not play because its diablo. People will play to find godly gear and sell it, and all gear will be bought by chinese farmers(you know then) which will re-sell at atrocious prices.
Seriously, we all waited 10 years for this piece of garbage? This is a slap on the face of the community.
""here here, 99p legendary chinese store, kick ass, TODAY''''
ps: I got banned from Battle.net forums for posting this, this pretty much shows whats blizzards view on this subject Because you couldnt sell gear in diablo 2...? Blizzard know what they are doing. They havent had a single game that wasnt a huge success for over 15 years. People complaining on forums that some features are shitty and are gonna break the game they havent even played in any way are clueless. Its not a feature that is shitty, its THE feature, and its not shitty, its complete GARBAGE. Please, we are not alienated or stupid, we don't need to play the game to actually know what works or don't. Either way, i've already said why this will ruin D3 economy, apparently you missed. Argument from ignorance, sir, look it up, it's what you are doing. You don't the AH will affect the economy, and im pretty sure blizzard knows better than you. No, apparently Blizzard doesn't know better than me, and thats why Blizzard is one of the best in the market, because they listen to the customers. (and mind you, its not only me, the entire Diablo community is at war in the battle.net forums) There's absolutely no separation between the player who access the gold AH and those who access the cash AH, skilled auctioneers (whether from WoW or Ebay or whatever), Chinese Farmers, and so on will buy any items that are appropriately priced from the gold AH, and then re-sell them on the cash AH. That's not a theory. It will happen. First, you cannot practically maintain an economy that has two currencies for each item. One will always be favored and the other will be used rarely, if at all. Strong sellers will dominate the AH. The same faculty that drives strong sellers to play that role will naturally compel them to use the RMAH. Thus the in-game gold AH becomes a scrap-dump. Second, comparing item selling in any other game to this one is short-sighted. If the game is actually fun to play, and the economy actually WORKS well, people will not feel compelled to skip content and uber up with real money. But by ENCOURAGING people to buy items and, necessarily, skip over the actual gameplay, Blizzard is admitting defeat. They're saying "Well, the actual fun of this game resides in HAVING good gear, not OBTAINING good gear." Any game designer that admits as much is a pathetic game designer. I'm having a hard time understanding how this is going to get in the way of your desire to work to obtain your gear. You don't have to buy anything to just appreciate the PvE part of the game. Now, if you want to compete in PvP and take the arenas seriously (which are going to be a giant, imbalanced mess with or without cash trading, believe you me) then yeah, there's cause for concern there. This get in they way of EVERYONE, have you ever played D2?! In game trading was a monumental aspect of the game, and now its ruined. Yes, it doesn't stop me from farming my own gear, but please, what are the odds of me finding all the legendaries for my character? Slim, if that. Solution? Trade my other items for then... but why would anyone trade the legendaries i need for gold/items when they can sell then in the RMAH? They WON'T And yes, i was looking forward for pvp... was...
Because they think like you, want the legendaries you have and are willing to trade item-for-item (which you can still do)?
Worse comes to worst, what's wrong with trading what you've found for cash, then buying the real one you want? If the liquidity into real world money is worth more to you, then you never really wanted that item enough to begin with.
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On August 02 2011 05:21 Bibdy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 05:17 DDie wrote:On August 02 2011 05:11 Bibdy wrote:On August 02 2011 05:02 DDie wrote:On August 02 2011 04:58 zeru wrote:On August 02 2011 04:54 DDie wrote:On August 02 2011 04:47 zeru wrote:On August 02 2011 04:40 DDie wrote:
I feel disgusted and betrayed, Diablo is not dead, no sir, its not even a game anymore, its a job(not a esport).
People will not play because its fun, because its thrilling, they will not play because its diablo. People will play to find godly gear and sell it, and all gear will be bought by chinese farmers(you know then) which will re-sell at atrocious prices.
Seriously, we all waited 10 years for this piece of garbage? This is a slap on the face of the community.
""here here, 99p legendary chinese store, kick ass, TODAY''''
ps: I got banned from Battle.net forums for posting this, this pretty much shows whats blizzards view on this subject Because you couldnt sell gear in diablo 2...? Blizzard know what they are doing. They havent had a single game that wasnt a huge success for over 15 years. People complaining on forums that some features are shitty and are gonna break the game they havent even played in any way are clueless. Its not a feature that is shitty, its THE feature, and its not shitty, its complete GARBAGE. Please, we are not alienated or stupid, we don't need to play the game to actually know what works or don't. Either way, i've already said why this will ruin D3 economy, apparently you missed. Argument from ignorance, sir, look it up, it's what you are doing. You don't the AH will affect the economy, and im pretty sure blizzard knows better than you. No, apparently Blizzard doesn't know better than me, and thats why Blizzard is one of the best in the market, because they listen to the customers. (and mind you, its not only me, the entire Diablo community is at war in the battle.net forums) There's absolutely no separation between the player who access the gold AH and those who access the cash AH, skilled auctioneers (whether from WoW or Ebay or whatever), Chinese Farmers, and so on will buy any items that are appropriately priced from the gold AH, and then re-sell them on the cash AH. That's not a theory. It will happen. First, you cannot practically maintain an economy that has two currencies for each item. One will always be favored and the other will be used rarely, if at all. Strong sellers will dominate the AH. The same faculty that drives strong sellers to play that role will naturally compel them to use the RMAH. Thus the in-game gold AH becomes a scrap-dump. Second, comparing item selling in any other game to this one is short-sighted. If the game is actually fun to play, and the economy actually WORKS well, people will not feel compelled to skip content and uber up with real money. But by ENCOURAGING people to buy items and, necessarily, skip over the actual gameplay, Blizzard is admitting defeat. They're saying "Well, the actual fun of this game resides in HAVING good gear, not OBTAINING good gear." Any game designer that admits as much is a pathetic game designer. I'm having a hard time understanding how this is going to get in the way of your desire to work to obtain your gear. You don't have to buy anything to just appreciate the PvE part of the game. Now, if you want to compete in PvP and take the arenas seriously (which are going to be a giant, imbalanced mess with or without cash trading, believe you me) then yeah, there's cause for concern there. This get in they way of EVERYONE, have you ever played D2?! In game trading was a monumental aspect of the game, and now its ruined. Yes, it doesn't stop me from farming my own gear, but please, what are the odds of me finding all the legendaries for my character? Slim, if that. Solution? Trade my other items for then... but why would anyone trade the legendaries i need for gold/items when they can sell then in the RMAH? They WON'T And yes, i was looking forward for pvp... was... Because they think like you, want the legendaries you have and are willing to trade item-for-item (which you can still do)? Worse comes to worst, what's wrong with trading what you've found for cash, then buying the real one you want? If the liquidity into real world money is worth more to you, then you never really wanted that item enough to begin with.
Actually jsp trading was the cornerstone of that game, the only ingame trading outside of fulfilling your jsp trade was fleecing idiots to get easy forum gold because they didnt know about jsp.
People who think that this is anything new/get enrage about the real money ah, are frankly ignorant of how diablo 2 became so popular and worked. Its basically the same kind of shock from some one playing scbw with just (as in never learning about apm micro and macro bos and whatnot) their school friends for year and then being exposed to how the game actually works
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On August 02 2011 05:18 Insanious wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 02 2011 04:50 DDie wrote:
You are not thinking this through, this affects EVERYONE.
The AH will be dominated by thousands of gold farmers who will outfarm you in every way, they will control the influx of legendary/set equipments, which will make your own legendary garbage, because they will always sell cheaper.
Also, the RMAH will be the dominat economy, everyone will sell uber shit on the RMAH, and the crap gear will remain on the GAH, in other words, you never have access to elite gear unless a) you find it yourself(in which case, you will sell it), b) you buy it for real money. This wont happen because of how economies work together. In Diablo 3 we will have two separate currencies, gold and real life money. As well, since you can buy gold with real life money there will be an exchange rate no matter what. We don't know if the exchange rate will be $1 for 1,000,000 gold or $1 for 2 gold. Either way that will translate to items. If 10,000 gold is $10, then an item that is worth $10 you will be able to trade it for 10,000gold on the auction house... this will be true. If it isn't true, and you can say buy the item for $10, then sell it for 100,000gold. You could then sell the 100,000 gold for $100 and make $90. So that means that the values of gold and real money will be tied together. This means that selling an item on the RMAH or the GAH is equivalent. - - - - - - - Now lets assume that as soon as the game comes out, the RMAH is flooded with items and the GAH has very few items. You have to look at why this happens. This happens because there are a lot of people selling and not a lot of people buying. As such, there will be a HUGE market for high level items on the GAH. So then you can start listing powerful items at a LARGE markup. This lets you make a TONNE of gold that you can then sell on the RMAH. This will drive the gold price on the GAH down, as smart traders will notice how much gold can be made on the GAH and sold on the RMAH. Someone will let this leak on a forum and the masses will start doing this. This will lower the supply of items on the RMAH and will drive the prices up on the RMAH. As well, since more gold is being used on items this will drive the exchange rate up. - - - - - - Eventually, the two auction houses will come to an equilibrium. There will become a constant gold -> money and money -> gold exchange rate that will stabilize the economy of the game. ACTUALLY, selling items on the GAH is BETTER than selling on the RMAH. As selling items on the GAH lets you by pass the listing and selling fees. You can then sell your Gold on the RMAH in one single trade. This saves you money and is the technically best way to cash out. - - - - - So don't worry, the game's economy will stabilize just fine and you won't find a 'Everything on RMAH nothing on GAH" because if that happens then people like me will make A LOT A LOT A LOT A LOT of money by playing the auction house. With multiple currencies the game can no longer have a dead economy due to inflation, as there will always be an exchange rate be it $1 for 10 gold, 100 gold, 1,000 gold, 10,000 gold, 1,000,000,000 gold, 1,000,000,000,000,000 gold what ever... but the exchange rates carry over to the items as well and the RMAH. real world economics GO GO GO!
Most of this is based on the assumption that gold will actually be sellable on the RMAH or buyable by other means. I haven't seen anything about that as of yet. Even if you can't, this scenario could still happen. But a scenario where the in game gold becomes virtually useless is also likely.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not all that disappointed in the RMAH. I can just choose not to use it, and whatever side effects it has on the gold based economy won't be much different than the effects of the black market was on d2.
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On August 02 2011 05:35 FireBearHero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2011 05:18 Insanious wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 02 2011 04:50 DDie wrote:
You are not thinking this through, this affects EVERYONE.
The AH will be dominated by thousands of gold farmers who will outfarm you in every way, they will control the influx of legendary/set equipments, which will make your own legendary garbage, because they will always sell cheaper.
Also, the RMAH will be the dominat economy, everyone will sell uber shit on the RMAH, and the crap gear will remain on the GAH, in other words, you never have access to elite gear unless a) you find it yourself(in which case, you will sell it), b) you buy it for real money. This wont happen because of how economies work together. In Diablo 3 we will have two separate currencies, gold and real life money. As well, since you can buy gold with real life money there will be an exchange rate no matter what. We don't know if the exchange rate will be $1 for 1,000,000 gold or $1 for 2 gold. Either way that will translate to items. If 10,000 gold is $10, then an item that is worth $10 you will be able to trade it for 10,000gold on the auction house... this will be true. If it isn't true, and you can say buy the item for $10, then sell it for 100,000gold. You could then sell the 100,000 gold for $100 and make $90. So that means that the values of gold and real money will be tied together. This means that selling an item on the RMAH or the GAH is equivalent. - - - - - - - Now lets assume that as soon as the game comes out, the RMAH is flooded with items and the GAH has very few items. You have to look at why this happens. This happens because there are a lot of people selling and not a lot of people buying. As such, there will be a HUGE market for high level items on the GAH. So then you can start listing powerful items at a LARGE markup. This lets you make a TONNE of gold that you can then sell on the RMAH. This will drive the gold price on the GAH down, as smart traders will notice how much gold can be made on the GAH and sold on the RMAH. Someone will let this leak on a forum and the masses will start doing this. This will lower the supply of items on the RMAH and will drive the prices up on the RMAH. As well, since more gold is being used on items this will drive the exchange rate up. - - - - - - Eventually, the two auction houses will come to an equilibrium. There will become a constant gold -> money and money -> gold exchange rate that will stabilize the economy of the game. ACTUALLY, selling items on the GAH is BETTER than selling on the RMAH. As selling items on the GAH lets you by pass the listing and selling fees. You can then sell your Gold on the RMAH in one single trade. This saves you money and is the technically best way to cash out. - - - - - So don't worry, the game's economy will stabilize just fine and you won't find a 'Everything on RMAH nothing on GAH" because if that happens then people like me will make A LOT A LOT A LOT A LOT of money by playing the auction house. With multiple currencies the game can no longer have a dead economy due to inflation, as there will always be an exchange rate be it $1 for 10 gold, 100 gold, 1,000 gold, 10,000 gold, 1,000,000,000 gold, 1,000,000,000,000,000 gold what ever... but the exchange rates carry over to the items as well and the RMAH. real world economics GO GO GO! Most of this is based on the assumption that gold will actually be sellable on the RMAH or buyable by other means. I haven't seen anything about that as of yet. Even if you can't, this scenario could still happen. But a scenario where the in game gold becomes virtually useless is also likely. Don't get me wrong, I'm not all that disappointed in the RMAH. I can just choose not to use it, and whatever side effects it has on the gold based economy won't be much different than the effects of the black market was on d2.
As long as you can sell gold on the RMAH then there has to be a balance between the RMAH and GAH or people would just get ripped off all day...
1) Buy item on RMAH
2) Sell item on GAH
3) Sell Gold on RMAH
4) Repeat steps 1 - 3
If you cannot sell gold on the RMAH, then... the GAH will not be used at all and this will keep me using JSP for all my gearing needs.
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On August 02 2011 05:18 Insanious wrote: real world economics GO GO GO!
You sir win this thread. Very well put. It's overall so silly how people thought that their virtual items had no value before the RMAH (keep in mind very very little value is still a value).
If you cannot sell gold on the RMAH, then... the GAH will not be used at all and this will keep me using JSP for all my gearing needs.
If there's any GAH activity at all there's still a high chance that you can go item -> gold -> item -> real money at a profit. Besides you could always use a 3rd party to sell the gold.
If in game gold has no value then yeah the RMAH will be the only AH used, but if the RMAH didn't exist then you'd have to item trade for everything like D2 (or use a 3rd party) anyways.
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Paradox:
Diablo 3 sells items -> Not a competitive game -> Not a game to be taken seriously -> Not a game worth spending money to be more competitive
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 02 2011 05:18 Insanious wrote:This wont happen because of how economies work together. In Diablo 3 we will have two separate currencies, gold and real life money. As well, since you can buy gold with real life money there will be an exchange rate no matter what. We don't know if the exchange rate will be $1 for 1,000,000 gold or $1 for 2 gold. Either way that will translate to items. If 10,000 gold is $10, then an item that is worth $10 you will be able to trade it for 10,000gold on the auction house... this will be true. If it isn't true, and you can say buy the item for $10, then sell it for 100,000gold. You could then sell the 100,000 gold for $100 and make $90. So that means that the values of gold and real money will be tied together. This means that selling an item on the RMAH or the GAH is equivalent. - - - - - - - Now lets assume that as soon as the game comes out, the RMAH is flooded with items and the GAH has very few items. You have to look at why this happens. This happens because there are a lot of people selling and not a lot of people buying. As such, there will be a HUGE market for high level items on the GAH. So then you can start listing powerful items at a LARGE markup. This lets you make a TONNE of gold that you can then sell on the RMAH. This will drive the gold price on the GAH down, as smart traders will notice how much gold can be made on the GAH and sold on the RMAH. Someone will let this leak on a forum and the masses will start doing this. This will lower the supply of items on the RMAH and will drive the prices up on the RMAH. As well, since more gold is being used on items this will drive the exchange rate up. - - - - - - Eventually, the two auction houses will come to an equilibrium. There will become a constant gold -> money and money -> gold exchange rate that will stabilize the economy of the game. ACTUALLY, selling items on the GAH is BETTER than selling on the RMAH. As selling items on the GAH lets you by pass the listing and selling fees. You can then sell your Gold on the RMAH in one single trade. This saves you money and is the technically best way to cash out. - - - - - So don't worry, the game's economy will stabilize just fine and you won't find a 'Everything on RMAH nothing on GAH" because if that happens then people like me will make A LOT A LOT A LOT A LOT of money by playing the auction house. With multiple currencies the game can no longer have a dead economy due to inflation, as there will always be an exchange rate be it $1 for 10 gold, 100 gold, 1,000 gold, 10,000 gold, 1,000,000,000 gold, 1,000,000,000,000,000 gold what ever... but the exchange rates carry over to the items as well and the RMAH. real world economics GO GO GO!
Thanks for that 'explanation'  It makes sence
I dont know much about economics and trading, but im very excited for this feature. Its gonna open up a whole new dimension in the game.
If i can make some money each month, to fuel my wow subscription. That would be awesome!
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EPT
