EPTDiablo III General Discussion - Page 150
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taLbuk
Madagascar1879 Posts
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Insanious
Canada1251 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:09 cz wrote: Are you serious? Why? They just massively dumbed down the game and massively reduced the skill cap. Because 100% of builds were: 1) Enough STR to use my items 2) Enough Dex to get max block 3) Everything else into Vitality As such, with the best items your build was actually: 1) Everything into Vitality Blizzard thought this was dumb, so they took it out. I mean the only character type that didn't do this was a titan build for PvE which was 1) Everything into STR Even then, it was a niche PvE build. | ||
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Charger
United States2405 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:09 cz wrote: Are you serious? Why? They just massively dumbed down the game and massively reduced the skill cap. Well, I feel similarly, but I also see Blizzards point of view. Their argument is that essentially all that really happened is people figured out how much str they needed for their gear, and dumped the rest into vitality and a little in dex so it was all basically the same anyway. So it KIND OF was the same thing in D2 but you still had to go through the motions instead of it being automated this time. | ||
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Souljah
United States423 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:03 cz wrote: AH never really bothered me, it's the stupid skill point system that they changed now. It seems like every character is now essentially the same - two level 60 barbarians are identical, as their active skills can be switched in 20 seconds. Its only gear that makes them different now. There was something satisfying about planning a character out and building it knowing that while you and another lvl 60 barb have the same level and character type, yours is probably better build because you planned better. Now that 12 year old can just switch it around and he's just as good. edit: I guess there are still those character points like vitality and energy, but meh. Dont forget about the runestones.. they seem to play a big part in the characters development. I'm expecting those to be the high dollar items in the AH since they are random based and locked. I do agree though the changes to the skill point system really sucks.. It takes away alot of the thought and planning into your characters development. | ||
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Insanious
Canada1251 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:13 Souljah wrote: Dont forget about the runestones.. they seem to play a big part in the characters development. I'm expecting those to be the high dollar items in the AH since they are random based and locked. I do agree though the changes to the skill point system really sucks.. It takes away alot of the thought and planning into your characters development. They took it out because Diablo 3 just like Diablo 2 now was going to have respecs... As such, with Diablo 3 people just did this: 1) Put all skill points into skill 2) Level up get new skill 3) Respec 4) Repeat 1 - 3 as you level up Meaning they basically just automated this in that you just get all skills at full, since the difference between what we have now and what we had was 1) Go to town 2) Respec Now you just switch your skills and cut out these two little steps that really meant nothing. | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:11 Insanious wrote: Because 100% of builds were: 1) Enough STR to use my items 2) Enough Dex to get max block 3) Everything else into Vitality As such, with the best items your build was actually: 1) Everything into Vitality Blizzard thought this was dumb, so they took it out. I mean the only character type that didn't do this was a titan build for PvE which was 1) Everything into STR Even then, it was a niche PvE build. Only if you know what you are doing. I'd guess that 90% of builds, especially in the first 3 years of diablo 2, were not at all like this - the vast majority of people are casuals and just put stuff down as they go. That makes for a larger skill cap, with the good players able to outperform in point allocation. Now it's just all the same. | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:15 Insanious wrote: They took it out because Diablo 3 just like Diablo 2 now was going to have respecs... As such, with Diablo 3 people just did this: 1) Put all skill points into skill 2) Level up get new skill 3) Respec 4) Repeat 1 - 3 as you level up Meaning they basically just automated this in that you just get all skills at full, since the difference between what we have now and what we had was 1) Go to town 2) Respec Now you just switch your skills and cut out these two little steps that really meant nothing. Game better be hard. No respecs is what made D2 fun - saving up all my points for orb and cold mastery or strafe or whatever, trying to get through normal without being able to do much. If I can now put as many points as I want in beginning spells this game is going to be really, really easy. Unless they make the difficulty of the monsters/quests really, really hard, which it seems they won't, going by their "dumb things down, make it easier" approach so far. | ||
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Charger
United States2405 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:15 cz wrote: Only if you know what you are doing. I'd guess that 90% of builds, especially in the first 3 years of diablo 2, were not at all like this - the vast majority of people are casuals and just put stuff down as they go. That makes for a larger skill cap, with the good players able to outperform in point allocation. Now it's just all the same. This brings up a good point that I had overlooked a bit. There weren't always optimal builds available, just like in BW. Sure 10 years later it is pretty set in stone but we can't forget about the hundreds if not thousands of 'standard' builds that popped up before someone figured out the real standard build. I guess the customization will still be there, it'll just take a different form - at least that's my hope. | ||
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Insanious
Canada1251 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:17 cz wrote: Game better be hard. No respecs is what made D2 fun - saving up all my points for orb and cold mastery or strafe or whatever, trying to get through normal without being able to do much. If I can now put as many points as I want in beginning spells this game is going to be really, really easy. Unless they make the difficulty of the monsters/quests really, really hard, which it seems they won't, going by their "dumb things down, make it easier" approach so far. I played through the game once... and then did what everyone else did in Diablo 2: Pre 1.09 (lvl 1 - 80 in 1.5 hours) 1) Start new character 2) Get run through to Act 5 Hell 3) Sit in Hell Cows till level 99 Post 1.09 ( lvl 1 - 80 in 2 hours) 1) Start new character 2) Get run through to Act 5 Hell 3) Sit in Baal runs till level 99 Post 1.10 ( lvl 1 - 80 in ~8 hours) 1) Start new character 2) use glitches to get run through game to Act 4 in Hell 3) Sit in pandemonium fortress till level 60 4) Do Baal runs till 99 Alt post 1.10 (lvl 1 - 80 in ~2 hours) 1) Start new character 2) use glitches to get run through Game to Act 5 hell 3) Sit in Uber Tristram till lvl 99 Then I just speced my character how I wanted, used Forum gold to gear them, then ran around killing things till I got bored. Then i sold the character for forum gold and rinse and repeat. That was d2 for me. | ||
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Hikari
1914 Posts
Given today's day and age, I expect "best builds" for each class to be theorycrafted early and become extremely popularized. Is doing baal runs over 9000 times really that fun for you? | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:21 Insanious wrote: I played through the game once... and then did what everyone else did in Diablo 2: Pre 1.09 (lvl 1 - 80 in 1.5 hours) 1) Start new character 2) Get run through to Act 5 Hell 3) Sit in Hell Cows till level 99 Post 1.10 ( lvl 1 - 80 in 2 hours) 1) Start new character 2) Get run through to Act 5 Hell 3) Sit in Baal runs till level 99 Post 1.10b ( lvl 1 - 80 in ~8 hours) 1) Start new character 2) use glitches to get run through game to Act 4 in Hell 3) Sit in pandemonium fortress till level 60 4) Do Baal runs till 99 Then I just speced my character how I wanted, used Forum gold to gear them, then ran around killing things till I got bored. Then i sold the character for forum gold and rinse and repeat. That was d2 for me. Yeah but I don't think that's typical. It is for the "pro" crowd, but the majority of people play through the game on their own with their characters, then restart with a new character and do it again. Especially in the first few years after the release, before everything was really figured out and codified down. The average d2 player in 2004, though, was not getting rushed around to level 90 - he was in a game called "act 2 start" and playing with a random crew. | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:23 Hikari wrote: There are other ways to make the game hard than to force those who minmix to just stick to 1 pointers for the majority of the game. Given today's day and age, I expect "best builds" for each class to be theorycrafted early and become extremely popularized. Is doing baal runs over 9000 times really that fun for you? You actually think blizzard is going to make this game hard? I'd love for them to actually make it so there are quests that are very hard to do, even with 8 players with great gear, but I somehow doubt Blizzard is going that way. | ||
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Pufftrees
2449 Posts
4 players is max game size | ||
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Insanious
Canada1251 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:23 Hikari wrote: There are other ways to make the game hard than to force those who minmix to just stick to 1 pointers for the majority of the game. Given today's day and age, I expect "best builds" for each class to be theorycrafted early and become extremely popularized. Is doing baal runs over 9000 times really that fun for you? I found making new characters fun, but I needed to be at a high level to actually use them in a reasonable way. I mean I spent ~8 hours making a poison java zon that would deal ~2 million dmg over 200,000 seconds with a single jav just because I could. Played her for a whole, running around killing things, then I got bored. So then I made a summoner necro, that can summon 20 skeleton warriors, 20 skeleton mages, and 54 revivals. Ran around with mass auras on my self and my merc Once i got bored I made an aura din Once I got bored, etc, etc, etc... The game was fun making random builds for me, so thats what I did. Getting to level 80 was a pain... but it was part of the game to let me do what I wanted to do. Playing through once on normal, then a few times with friends in HC was all I was interested in... but making different builds was very fun. | ||
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cz
United States3249 Posts
?? And I just read that they took away shared drops - you now get your own drops. Sure that made the game unfair to an extent, but that's where the adrenaline came in - trying to get the big drop away from the other guys in your pub game. What other steps backwards are blizzard taking? 4 players, are you serious? 8 players in 2001, 4 in 2012? | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:11 Insanious wrote: Because 100% of builds were: 1) Enough STR to use my items 2) Enough Dex to get max block 3) Everything else into Vitality As such, with the best items your build was actually: 1) Everything into Vitality Blizzard thought this was dumb, so they took it out. I mean the only character type that didn't do this was a titan build for PvE which was 1) Everything into STR Even then, it was a niche PvE build. Not 100% of builds. There were quite a few glass cannon builds that had either high dex (for zons) or extremely high strength, who had ridiculously huge damage output. There were even some builds for the sorc that focused on energy instead of vit. I dislike the fact that there are no skill points OR attribute points. Skill points and coming up with interesting builds was crazy fun. Support paladins (though rare, existed), smiters, hammerdins, WW assassin, holy fire paladin, enchantress/melee sorc, meteorb, blizzard, etc etc etc... there were tons of builds that you could mess with that made it a great discovery experience for people that chose to not follow the herd. | ||
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Teejing
Germany1360 Posts
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NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:26 cz wrote: You actually think blizzard is going to make this game hard? I'd love for them to actually make it so there are quests that are very hard to do, even with 8 players with great gear, but I somehow doubt Blizzard is going that way. Cap was lowered to only 4players in a game | ||
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Insanious
Canada1251 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:30 TheRabidDeer wrote: Not 100% of builds. There were quite a few glass cannon builds that had either high dex (for zons) or extremely high strength, who had ridiculously huge damage output. There were even some builds for the sorc that focused on energy instead of vit. I dislike the fact that there are no skill points OR attribute points. Skill points and coming up with interesting builds was crazy fun. Support paladins (though rare, existed), smiters, hammerdins, WW assassin, holy fire paladin, enchantress/melee sorc, meteorb, blizzard, etc etc etc... there were tons of builds that you could mess with that made it a great discovery experience for people that chose to not follow the herd. Sorry not 100% there were: 1) Energy Sheild Sorcs that put points into energy 2) Titan builds that went pure str and thats it... there was no point in putting points into dex with the right items as you would hit 75% block and everyone had a "AR based on level" item anyway. - - - - The build customization is still there, its just in the form of runes that you put into your skills rather than in the form of actually putting points into skills. You use runes to turn your sorcs skills from being ranged magic to being close range defensive and offensive passive abilities that turn you into a close range battle mage. You use runes to turn your barbarian into a ranged caster etc... same thing, just in a different way. | ||
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On August 02 2011 06:30 cz wrote: You're the first person I've seen complain about private drops. lol. I don't know about you, but at release you were screwed on drops without a good computer. When the boss died the death animation would often freeze for half a second to a second, and then all the items were already gone =/?? And I just read that they took away shared drops - you now get your own drops. Sure that made the game unfair to an extent, but that's where the adrenaline came in - trying to get the big drop away from the other guys in your pub game. What other steps backwards are blizzard taking? 4 players, are you serious? 8 players in 2001, 4 in 2012? Getting rid of the loot stealing is definitely a step forward. | ||
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