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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On July 02 2015 12:17 Black Gun wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 10:13 Hier wrote:On July 02 2015 09:20 Black Gun wrote:On July 02 2015 07:40 Drazerk wrote:
I wouldn't really call The Hound / Mirri Maz Duur villains
The hound was simply having to follow orders from Satan and given he was beaten / tortured by his brother all his life it seemed a rather cruel way for him to go given the only really bad thing we see him do is killing the butcher's boy back in S1E2. well, he was close to raping sansa on several occasions, as he admitted himself. [...] Don't make stuff up. he literally said to arya: "your pretty sister - I should have fucked her bloody when I had the chance to - that would be at least one good memory." he was obviously taunting arya to make her kill him, but someone who is exhausted and fatally wounded wont on the fly make up thoughts like that out of thin air. at least in the bedroom scene in the blackwater episode, he was clearly aware of sansas beauty and clearly aware that he could do whatever he wants with her.
You're not going to go far watching Game of Thrones if you take everything everyone said literally.
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On July 02 2015 12:17 Black Gun wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 10:13 Hier wrote:On July 02 2015 09:20 Black Gun wrote:On July 02 2015 07:40 Drazerk wrote:
I wouldn't really call The Hound / Mirri Maz Duur villains
The hound was simply having to follow orders from Satan and given he was beaten / tortured by his brother all his life it seemed a rather cruel way for him to go given the only really bad thing we see him do is killing the butcher's boy back in S1E2. well, he was close to raping sansa on several occasions, as he admitted himself. [...] Don't make stuff up. he literally said to arya: "your pretty sister - I should have fucked her bloody when I had the chance to - that would be at least one good memory." he was obviously taunting arya to make her kill him, but someone who is exhausted and fatally wounded wont on the fly make up thoughts like that out of thin air. at least in the bedroom scene in the blackwater episode, he was clearly aware of sansas beauty and clearly aware that he could do whatever he wants with her.
He was the only person that treated Sansa as a human being in the first two seasons in King's Landing. He advised her and helped her at his way. And He didn't rape her, he could if he wanted. I don't see how the hound was "bad" with sansa.
Bad things? He killed the butcher's kid, and it was not his idea. It was Cercei/Joffrey orders and he must obey, no other options there. Yes, he sometimes did bad things (like that villager he stole), but it is a hard world and he wanted to survive.
He is grey, but not a villain. He is not the mountain. He did not rape and killed brutally a princess and his two sons.
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On July 02 2015 09:40 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 09:27 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 09:21 Drazerk wrote:On July 02 2015 09:17 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 07:40 Drazerk wrote:
I wouldn't really call The Hound / Mirri Maz Duur villains
The hound was simply having to follow orders from Satan and given he was beaten / tortured by his brother all his life it seemed a rather cruel way for him to go given the only really bad thing we see him do is killing the butcher's boy back in S1E2.
Mirri Maz Duur had her entire village raided with the women raped and beaten and even though Dany stopped most of the rape Khal Drogo was the whole reason any of it happened so its perfectly logical she would try to assassinate his baby given her life had pretty much been destroyed by him. Thats more Karma for Drogo than it is for Mirri ofc they are not villains, there are no villains in GoT, everybody simply got their own goal, even Joffrey, he was just a kid that had no friends, had no father but had money and power. Ramsey is simply insane, still kinda don't get how Roose Bolton left him alive after all those trash he has done. Grey world with Grey ppl, not black and white... While yes it is a very grey world a lot of characters swing heavily on one side of the spectrum (Ned for good / Oli for evil) Sure it was sarcastic, Oli was a tool of Ser Aliser Torne, although I do belive Oli hated wildings due to a few obvious reasons, but still :D And Ned also was not a saint person, he killed a lot of ppl during the war and probably never told the truth about Jon Snow since we don't rly know who was his mom and dad. As I told before, everything is grey, and even Davos used to be a person against the law  On July 02 2015 09:23 Conti wrote:On July 02 2015 09:17 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 07:40 Drazerk wrote:
I wouldn't really call The Hound / Mirri Maz Duur villains
The hound was simply having to follow orders from Satan and given he was beaten / tortured by his brother all his life it seemed a rather cruel way for him to go given the only really bad thing we see him do is killing the butcher's boy back in S1E2.
Mirri Maz Duur had her entire village raided with the women raped and beaten and even though Dany stopped most of the rape Khal Drogo was the whole reason any of it happened so its perfectly logical she would try to assassinate his baby given her life had pretty much been destroyed by him. Thats more Karma for Drogo than it is for Mirri ofc they are not villains, there are no villains in GoT, everybody simply got their own goal, even Joffrey, he was just a kid that had no friends, had no father but had money and power. Ramsey is simply insane, still kinda don't get how Roose Bolton left him alive after all those trash he has done. Grey world with Grey ppl, not black and white... Imagine Ned were sitting on the iron throne after Robert's death, and I assume he could something do with Joffreys mind since he was a person that followed his word, almost always, but Cersei. Everything could be freaking different, sometimes little things matters much Being a villain does not mean that you can't have any character at all. Ransay and Joffrey are villains, by just about all definitions of the word. Does villain always follow someone's orders? Joffrey were more like a puppet of Cersei and Tywin later, while Ramsay will always follow the word of Roose Bolton. Look deeper The fuck? Joffrey killed Ned on someone's orders, then made sure the entirety of King's Landing hates his guts due to his sadistic nature because someone ordered him to be like that? Ramsay tortures and kills people for his pleasure on someone's orders? I don't even..
U don't get it, Joffrey made almost everything that told him Cersei except for few things and Ned's beheading exclusivly, Ramsay will do everything what Roose is going to say but it doesn't mean he cannot torture ppl as a "hobbie". But Roose will never ever tell him to torture ppl, he wants Ramsay to be as quite as possible to remain peace on the North.
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The Hound was one of the very few people I really felt sorry for when they died (assuming he is really dead as the actual last breath was not shown). Ned, Renley, Robb, Tywin etc... they played the Game and lost. The Hound was not a "good guy", but he was victim to weird circumstances and had twisted, but real morals - and the things he died for were a completely nuts Brienne and some crazy revenge by Arya for something if he hadn't done he would be killed anyway.
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On July 02 2015 18:49 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 09:40 Conti wrote:On July 02 2015 09:27 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 09:21 Drazerk wrote:On July 02 2015 09:17 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 07:40 Drazerk wrote:
I wouldn't really call The Hound / Mirri Maz Duur villains
The hound was simply having to follow orders from Satan and given he was beaten / tortured by his brother all his life it seemed a rather cruel way for him to go given the only really bad thing we see him do is killing the butcher's boy back in S1E2.
Mirri Maz Duur had her entire village raided with the women raped and beaten and even though Dany stopped most of the rape Khal Drogo was the whole reason any of it happened so its perfectly logical she would try to assassinate his baby given her life had pretty much been destroyed by him. Thats more Karma for Drogo than it is for Mirri ofc they are not villains, there are no villains in GoT, everybody simply got their own goal, even Joffrey, he was just a kid that had no friends, had no father but had money and power. Ramsey is simply insane, still kinda don't get how Roose Bolton left him alive after all those trash he has done. Grey world with Grey ppl, not black and white... While yes it is a very grey world a lot of characters swing heavily on one side of the spectrum (Ned for good / Oli for evil) Sure it was sarcastic, Oli was a tool of Ser Aliser Torne, although I do belive Oli hated wildings due to a few obvious reasons, but still :D And Ned also was not a saint person, he killed a lot of ppl during the war and probably never told the truth about Jon Snow since we don't rly know who was his mom and dad. As I told before, everything is grey, and even Davos used to be a person against the law On July 02 2015 09:23 Conti wrote:On July 02 2015 09:17 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 07:40 Drazerk wrote:
I wouldn't really call The Hound / Mirri Maz Duur villains
The hound was simply having to follow orders from Satan and given he was beaten / tortured by his brother all his life it seemed a rather cruel way for him to go given the only really bad thing we see him do is killing the butcher's boy back in S1E2.
Mirri Maz Duur had her entire village raided with the women raped and beaten and even though Dany stopped most of the rape Khal Drogo was the whole reason any of it happened so its perfectly logical she would try to assassinate his baby given her life had pretty much been destroyed by him. Thats more Karma for Drogo than it is for Mirri ofc they are not villains, there are no villains in GoT, everybody simply got their own goal, even Joffrey, he was just a kid that had no friends, had no father but had money and power. Ramsey is simply insane, still kinda don't get how Roose Bolton left him alive after all those trash he has done. Grey world with Grey ppl, not black and white... Imagine Ned were sitting on the iron throne after Robert's death, and I assume he could something do with Joffreys mind since he was a person that followed his word, almost always, but Cersei. Everything could be freaking different, sometimes little things matters much Being a villain does not mean that you can't have any character at all. Ransay and Joffrey are villains, by just about all definitions of the word. Does villain always follow someone's orders? Joffrey were more like a puppet of Cersei and Tywin later, while Ramsay will always follow the word of Roose Bolton. Look deeper The fuck? Joffrey killed Ned on someone's orders, then made sure the entirety of King's Landing hates his guts due to his sadistic nature because someone ordered him to be like that? Ramsay tortures and kills people for his pleasure on someone's orders? I don't even.. U don't get it, Joffrey made almost everything that told him Cersei except for few things and Ned's beheading exclusivly, Ramsay will do everything what Roose is going to say but it doesn't mean he cannot torture ppl as a "hobbie". But Roose will never ever tell him to torture ppl, he wants Ramsay to be as quite as possible to remain peace on the North.
Actually Joffrey was the opposite, he usually made what he wanted, Cersei was not able to stop him, only Tywin had some power over him, He was really the representation of a bad guy.
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On July 02 2015 22:07 palexhur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 18:49 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 09:40 Conti wrote:On July 02 2015 09:27 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 09:21 Drazerk wrote:On July 02 2015 09:17 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 07:40 Drazerk wrote:
I wouldn't really call The Hound / Mirri Maz Duur villains
The hound was simply having to follow orders from Satan and given he was beaten / tortured by his brother all his life it seemed a rather cruel way for him to go given the only really bad thing we see him do is killing the butcher's boy back in S1E2.
Mirri Maz Duur had her entire village raided with the women raped and beaten and even though Dany stopped most of the rape Khal Drogo was the whole reason any of it happened so its perfectly logical she would try to assassinate his baby given her life had pretty much been destroyed by him. Thats more Karma for Drogo than it is for Mirri ofc they are not villains, there are no villains in GoT, everybody simply got their own goal, even Joffrey, he was just a kid that had no friends, had no father but had money and power. Ramsey is simply insane, still kinda don't get how Roose Bolton left him alive after all those trash he has done. Grey world with Grey ppl, not black and white... While yes it is a very grey world a lot of characters swing heavily on one side of the spectrum (Ned for good / Oli for evil) Sure it was sarcastic, Oli was a tool of Ser Aliser Torne, although I do belive Oli hated wildings due to a few obvious reasons, but still :D And Ned also was not a saint person, he killed a lot of ppl during the war and probably never told the truth about Jon Snow since we don't rly know who was his mom and dad. As I told before, everything is grey, and even Davos used to be a person against the law On July 02 2015 09:23 Conti wrote:On July 02 2015 09:17 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 07:40 Drazerk wrote:
I wouldn't really call The Hound / Mirri Maz Duur villains
The hound was simply having to follow orders from Satan and given he was beaten / tortured by his brother all his life it seemed a rather cruel way for him to go given the only really bad thing we see him do is killing the butcher's boy back in S1E2.
Mirri Maz Duur had her entire village raided with the women raped and beaten and even though Dany stopped most of the rape Khal Drogo was the whole reason any of it happened so its perfectly logical she would try to assassinate his baby given her life had pretty much been destroyed by him. Thats more Karma for Drogo than it is for Mirri ofc they are not villains, there are no villains in GoT, everybody simply got their own goal, even Joffrey, he was just a kid that had no friends, had no father but had money and power. Ramsey is simply insane, still kinda don't get how Roose Bolton left him alive after all those trash he has done. Grey world with Grey ppl, not black and white... Imagine Ned were sitting on the iron throne after Robert's death, and I assume he could something do with Joffreys mind since he was a person that followed his word, almost always, but Cersei. Everything could be freaking different, sometimes little things matters much Being a villain does not mean that you can't have any character at all. Ransay and Joffrey are villains, by just about all definitions of the word. Does villain always follow someone's orders? Joffrey were more like a puppet of Cersei and Tywin later, while Ramsay will always follow the word of Roose Bolton. Look deeper The fuck? Joffrey killed Ned on someone's orders, then made sure the entirety of King's Landing hates his guts due to his sadistic nature because someone ordered him to be like that? Ramsay tortures and kills people for his pleasure on someone's orders? I don't even.. U don't get it, Joffrey made almost everything that told him Cersei except for few things and Ned's beheading exclusivly, Ramsay will do everything what Roose is going to say but it doesn't mean he cannot torture ppl as a "hobbie". But Roose will never ever tell him to torture ppl, he wants Ramsay to be as quite as possible to remain peace on the North. Actually Joffrey was the opposite, he usually made what he wanted, Cersei was not able to stop him, only Tywin had some power over him, He was really the representation of a bad guy.
What a strange explanation for me. I'm considering Tywin as one of the very best rulers in entire Westeros, a man who had powers/knowleges/authority/gold and army, and he knew how to use it all. It wasn't his fault that his daugther were thinking only about how to rule by her own, while she grew her own son as a half-monster. Basicly what he was trying was to safe his family and his family's name and he had to restore everything Cersei/Jaime wasted at some point. If u are Stark than ofc - Tywin is a source of everything that is bad, but what if u are Lannister?
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On July 02 2015 22:46 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 22:07 palexhur wrote:On July 02 2015 18:49 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 09:40 Conti wrote:On July 02 2015 09:27 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 09:21 Drazerk wrote:On July 02 2015 09:17 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 07:40 Drazerk wrote:
I wouldn't really call The Hound / Mirri Maz Duur villains
The hound was simply having to follow orders from Satan and given he was beaten / tortured by his brother all his life it seemed a rather cruel way for him to go given the only really bad thing we see him do is killing the butcher's boy back in S1E2.
Mirri Maz Duur had her entire village raided with the women raped and beaten and even though Dany stopped most of the rape Khal Drogo was the whole reason any of it happened so its perfectly logical she would try to assassinate his baby given her life had pretty much been destroyed by him. Thats more Karma for Drogo than it is for Mirri ofc they are not villains, there are no villains in GoT, everybody simply got their own goal, even Joffrey, he was just a kid that had no friends, had no father but had money and power. Ramsey is simply insane, still kinda don't get how Roose Bolton left him alive after all those trash he has done. Grey world with Grey ppl, not black and white... While yes it is a very grey world a lot of characters swing heavily on one side of the spectrum (Ned for good / Oli for evil) Sure it was sarcastic, Oli was a tool of Ser Aliser Torne, although I do belive Oli hated wildings due to a few obvious reasons, but still :D And Ned also was not a saint person, he killed a lot of ppl during the war and probably never told the truth about Jon Snow since we don't rly know who was his mom and dad. As I told before, everything is grey, and even Davos used to be a person against the law On July 02 2015 09:23 Conti wrote:On July 02 2015 09:17 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 07:40 Drazerk wrote:
I wouldn't really call The Hound / Mirri Maz Duur villains
The hound was simply having to follow orders from Satan and given he was beaten / tortured by his brother all his life it seemed a rather cruel way for him to go given the only really bad thing we see him do is killing the butcher's boy back in S1E2.
Mirri Maz Duur had her entire village raided with the women raped and beaten and even though Dany stopped most of the rape Khal Drogo was the whole reason any of it happened so its perfectly logical she would try to assassinate his baby given her life had pretty much been destroyed by him. Thats more Karma for Drogo than it is for Mirri ofc they are not villains, there are no villains in GoT, everybody simply got their own goal, even Joffrey, he was just a kid that had no friends, had no father but had money and power. Ramsey is simply insane, still kinda don't get how Roose Bolton left him alive after all those trash he has done. Grey world with Grey ppl, not black and white... Imagine Ned were sitting on the iron throne after Robert's death, and I assume he could something do with Joffreys mind since he was a person that followed his word, almost always, but Cersei. Everything could be freaking different, sometimes little things matters much Being a villain does not mean that you can't have any character at all. Ransay and Joffrey are villains, by just about all definitions of the word. Does villain always follow someone's orders? Joffrey were more like a puppet of Cersei and Tywin later, while Ramsay will always follow the word of Roose Bolton. Look deeper The fuck? Joffrey killed Ned on someone's orders, then made sure the entirety of King's Landing hates his guts due to his sadistic nature because someone ordered him to be like that? Ramsay tortures and kills people for his pleasure on someone's orders? I don't even.. U don't get it, Joffrey made almost everything that told him Cersei except for few things and Ned's beheading exclusivly, Ramsay will do everything what Roose is going to say but it doesn't mean he cannot torture ppl as a "hobbie". But Roose will never ever tell him to torture ppl, he wants Ramsay to be as quite as possible to remain peace on the North. Actually Joffrey was the opposite, he usually made what he wanted, Cersei was not able to stop him, only Tywin had some power over him, He was really the representation of a bad guy. What a strange explanation for me. I'm considering Tywin as one of the very best rulers in entire Westeros, a man who had powers/knowleges/authority/gold and army, and he knew how to use it all. It wasn't his fault that his daugther were thinking only about how to rule by her own, while she grew her own son as a half-monster. Basicly what he was trying was to safe his family and his family's name and he had to restore everything Cersei/Jaime wasted at some point. If u are Stark than ofc - Tywin is a source of everything that is bad, but what if u are Lannister?
He meant Joffrey, not Tywin
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On July 02 2015 22:46 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 22:07 palexhur wrote:On July 02 2015 18:49 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 09:40 Conti wrote:On July 02 2015 09:27 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 09:21 Drazerk wrote:On July 02 2015 09:17 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 07:40 Drazerk wrote:
I wouldn't really call The Hound / Mirri Maz Duur villains
The hound was simply having to follow orders from Satan and given he was beaten / tortured by his brother all his life it seemed a rather cruel way for him to go given the only really bad thing we see him do is killing the butcher's boy back in S1E2.
Mirri Maz Duur had her entire village raided with the women raped and beaten and even though Dany stopped most of the rape Khal Drogo was the whole reason any of it happened so its perfectly logical she would try to assassinate his baby given her life had pretty much been destroyed by him. Thats more Karma for Drogo than it is for Mirri ofc they are not villains, there are no villains in GoT, everybody simply got their own goal, even Joffrey, he was just a kid that had no friends, had no father but had money and power. Ramsey is simply insane, still kinda don't get how Roose Bolton left him alive after all those trash he has done. Grey world with Grey ppl, not black and white... While yes it is a very grey world a lot of characters swing heavily on one side of the spectrum (Ned for good / Oli for evil) Sure it was sarcastic, Oli was a tool of Ser Aliser Torne, although I do belive Oli hated wildings due to a few obvious reasons, but still :D And Ned also was not a saint person, he killed a lot of ppl during the war and probably never told the truth about Jon Snow since we don't rly know who was his mom and dad. As I told before, everything is grey, and even Davos used to be a person against the law On July 02 2015 09:23 Conti wrote:On July 02 2015 09:17 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 07:40 Drazerk wrote:
I wouldn't really call The Hound / Mirri Maz Duur villains
The hound was simply having to follow orders from Satan and given he was beaten / tortured by his brother all his life it seemed a rather cruel way for him to go given the only really bad thing we see him do is killing the butcher's boy back in S1E2.
Mirri Maz Duur had her entire village raided with the women raped and beaten and even though Dany stopped most of the rape Khal Drogo was the whole reason any of it happened so its perfectly logical she would try to assassinate his baby given her life had pretty much been destroyed by him. Thats more Karma for Drogo than it is for Mirri ofc they are not villains, there are no villains in GoT, everybody simply got their own goal, even Joffrey, he was just a kid that had no friends, had no father but had money and power. Ramsey is simply insane, still kinda don't get how Roose Bolton left him alive after all those trash he has done. Grey world with Grey ppl, not black and white... Imagine Ned were sitting on the iron throne after Robert's death, and I assume he could something do with Joffreys mind since he was a person that followed his word, almost always, but Cersei. Everything could be freaking different, sometimes little things matters much Being a villain does not mean that you can't have any character at all. Ransay and Joffrey are villains, by just about all definitions of the word. Does villain always follow someone's orders? Joffrey were more like a puppet of Cersei and Tywin later, while Ramsay will always follow the word of Roose Bolton. Look deeper The fuck? Joffrey killed Ned on someone's orders, then made sure the entirety of King's Landing hates his guts due to his sadistic nature because someone ordered him to be like that? Ramsay tortures and kills people for his pleasure on someone's orders? I don't even.. U don't get it, Joffrey made almost everything that told him Cersei except for few things and Ned's beheading exclusivly, Ramsay will do everything what Roose is going to say but it doesn't mean he cannot torture ppl as a "hobbie". But Roose will never ever tell him to torture ppl, he wants Ramsay to be as quite as possible to remain peace on the North. Actually Joffrey was the opposite, he usually made what he wanted, Cersei was not able to stop him, only Tywin had some power over him, He was really the representation of a bad guy. What a strange explanation for me. I'm considering Tywin as one of the very best rulers in entire Westeros, a man who had powers/knowleges/authority/gold and army, and he knew how to use it all. It wasn't his fault that his daugther were thinking only about how to rule by her own, while she grew her own son as a half-monster. Basicly what he was trying was to safe his family and his family's name and he had to restore everything Cersei/Jaime wasted at some point. If u are Stark than ofc - Tywin is a source of everything that is bad, but what if u are Lannister?
Tyrion's a Lannister...
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On July 02 2015 23:10 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 22:46 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 22:07 palexhur wrote:On July 02 2015 18:49 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 09:40 Conti wrote:On July 02 2015 09:27 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 09:21 Drazerk wrote:On July 02 2015 09:17 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 07:40 Drazerk wrote:
I wouldn't really call The Hound / Mirri Maz Duur villains
The hound was simply having to follow orders from Satan and given he was beaten / tortured by his brother all his life it seemed a rather cruel way for him to go given the only really bad thing we see him do is killing the butcher's boy back in S1E2.
Mirri Maz Duur had her entire village raided with the women raped and beaten and even though Dany stopped most of the rape Khal Drogo was the whole reason any of it happened so its perfectly logical she would try to assassinate his baby given her life had pretty much been destroyed by him. Thats more Karma for Drogo than it is for Mirri ofc they are not villains, there are no villains in GoT, everybody simply got their own goal, even Joffrey, he was just a kid that had no friends, had no father but had money and power. Ramsey is simply insane, still kinda don't get how Roose Bolton left him alive after all those trash he has done. Grey world with Grey ppl, not black and white... While yes it is a very grey world a lot of characters swing heavily on one side of the spectrum (Ned for good / Oli for evil) Sure it was sarcastic, Oli was a tool of Ser Aliser Torne, although I do belive Oli hated wildings due to a few obvious reasons, but still :D And Ned also was not a saint person, he killed a lot of ppl during the war and probably never told the truth about Jon Snow since we don't rly know who was his mom and dad. As I told before, everything is grey, and even Davos used to be a person against the law On July 02 2015 09:23 Conti wrote:On July 02 2015 09:17 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On July 02 2015 07:40 Drazerk wrote:
I wouldn't really call The Hound / Mirri Maz Duur villains
The hound was simply having to follow orders from Satan and given he was beaten / tortured by his brother all his life it seemed a rather cruel way for him to go given the only really bad thing we see him do is killing the butcher's boy back in S1E2.
Mirri Maz Duur had her entire village raided with the women raped and beaten and even though Dany stopped most of the rape Khal Drogo was the whole reason any of it happened so its perfectly logical she would try to assassinate his baby given her life had pretty much been destroyed by him. Thats more Karma for Drogo than it is for Mirri ofc they are not villains, there are no villains in GoT, everybody simply got their own goal, even Joffrey, he was just a kid that had no friends, had no father but had money and power. Ramsey is simply insane, still kinda don't get how Roose Bolton left him alive after all those trash he has done. Grey world with Grey ppl, not black and white... Imagine Ned were sitting on the iron throne after Robert's death, and I assume he could something do with Joffreys mind since he was a person that followed his word, almost always, but Cersei. Everything could be freaking different, sometimes little things matters much Being a villain does not mean that you can't have any character at all. Ransay and Joffrey are villains, by just about all definitions of the word. Does villain always follow someone's orders? Joffrey were more like a puppet of Cersei and Tywin later, while Ramsay will always follow the word of Roose Bolton. Look deeper The fuck? Joffrey killed Ned on someone's orders, then made sure the entirety of King's Landing hates his guts due to his sadistic nature because someone ordered him to be like that? Ramsay tortures and kills people for his pleasure on someone's orders? I don't even.. U don't get it, Joffrey made almost everything that told him Cersei except for few things and Ned's beheading exclusivly, Ramsay will do everything what Roose is going to say but it doesn't mean he cannot torture ppl as a "hobbie". But Roose will never ever tell him to torture ppl, he wants Ramsay to be as quite as possible to remain peace on the North. Actually Joffrey was the opposite, he usually made what he wanted, Cersei was not able to stop him, only Tywin had some power over him, He was really the representation of a bad guy. What a strange explanation for me. I'm considering Tywin as one of the very best rulers in entire Westeros, a man who had powers/knowleges/authority/gold and army, and he knew how to use it all. It wasn't his fault that his daugther were thinking only about how to rule by her own, while she grew her own son as a half-monster. Basicly what he was trying was to safe his family and his family's name and he had to restore everything Cersei/Jaime wasted at some point. If u are Stark than ofc - Tywin is a source of everything that is bad, but what if u are Lannister? Tyrion's a Lannister...
An exception and we know why
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On July 02 2015 12:17 Black Gun wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2015 10:13 Hier wrote:On July 02 2015 09:20 Black Gun wrote:On July 02 2015 07:40 Drazerk wrote:
I wouldn't really call The Hound / Mirri Maz Duur villains
The hound was simply having to follow orders from Satan and given he was beaten / tortured by his brother all his life it seemed a rather cruel way for him to go given the only really bad thing we see him do is killing the butcher's boy back in S1E2. well, he was close to raping sansa on several occasions, as he admitted himself. [...] Don't make stuff up. he literally said to arya: "your pretty sister - I should have fucked her bloody when I had the chance to - that would be at least one good memory." he was obviously taunting arya to make her kill him, but someone who is exhausted and fatally wounded wont on the fly make up thoughts like that out of thin air. at least in the bedroom scene in the blackwater episode, he was clearly aware of sansas beauty and clearly aware that he could do whatever he wants with her.
You did not understand the scene. That wasn't a confession.
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What I still don't understand about Ramsey is why he didn't kill his father the moment he became a Bolton.
You'd expect from someone like him to want to have absolute power.
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The Hound is a very nasty, messed up person, but he does basically have a good heart. He might threaten to rape Sansa (though he never did directly afaik, it was just his presence that was intimidating), and he might threaten to beat the shit out of Arya if she tries to run away, but he'd never do either; he's a very reflected, damaged person who isn't capable of true evil on his own, like the Mountain.
What I still don't understand about Ramsey is why he didn't kill his father the moment he became a Bolton.
You'd expect from someone like him to want to have absolute power.
On this note, I think Roose is maybe the only person that Ramsay has any reverence/fear/respect for, and although we don't see exactly how fucked up Roose is, you can imagine he's very terrible, if Ramsay genuinely is afraid of him
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On July 04 2015 22:36 Zandar wrote:
What I still don't understand about Ramsey is why he didn't kill his father the moment he became a Bolton.
You'd expect from someone like him to want to have absolute power.
What makes you thing he has any shot? Roose is insanely good at this game, he would probably deflect any attempt and kill his "son" without blinking an eye. Overall, Rosse is a very weird character - he was introduced kinda randomly, but slowly we were shown that he is one of the most dangerous people around. Unless he is killed soon, I can see him having a lot of influence on the story in the future.
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On July 04 2015 23:40 marttorn wrote:The Hound is a very nasty, messed up person, but he does basically have a good heart. He might threaten to rape Sansa (though he never did directly afaik, it was just his presence that was intimidating), and he might threaten to beat the shit out of Arya if she tries to run away, but he'd never do either; he's a very reflected, damaged person who isn't capable of true evil on his own, like the Mountain. Show nested quote +What I still don't understand about Ramsey is why he didn't kill his father the moment he became a Bolton.
You'd expect from someone like him to want to have absolute power. On this note, I think Roose is maybe the only person that Ramsay has any reverence/fear/respect for, and although we don't see exactly how fucked up Roose is, you can imagine he's very terrible, if Ramsay genuinely is afraid of him
You overestimate his humanity. Just because he isn't a complete asshole doesn't mean he's a nice guy. Remember this is the same guy who in the beginning of the show killed a random farm boy and didn't give a shit about it.
Roose gives Ramsay legitimacy. Roose just has to say the word and Ramsay could lose everything, which naturally he doesn't want.
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I don't think Ramsay would even think of killing Roose. He's the only person who has any authority over him, and what Ramsay desires most is to be recognized and respected by his father by improving the family's position.
However, I don't know what would happen if Roose took away Ramsay's position and privileges. I could see him going berserk in that situation.
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On July 05 2015 03:27 Scorch wrote:
I don't think Ramsay would even think of killing Roose. He's the only person who has any authority over him, and what Ramsay desires most is to be recognized and respected by his father by improving the family's position.
However, I don't know what would happen if Roose took away Ramsay's position and privileges. I could see him going berserk in that situation.
roose would ofc know beforehand and bring a dozen guards with him... he probably knows better than anybody else how far ramsay is willing to go.
on the contrary, I think the people of the north wouldnt accept ramsay as their new warden, should he blatantly butcher his father. so he would have to make it look like an accident...
oh, and ofc there is this ridiculous theory that roose is a vampire or an 'undercover agent' of the white walkers... 
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On July 05 2015 03:21 killa_robot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2015 23:40 marttorn wrote:The Hound is a very nasty, messed up person, but he does basically have a good heart. He might threaten to rape Sansa (though he never did directly afaik, it was just his presence that was intimidating), and he might threaten to beat the shit out of Arya if she tries to run away, but he'd never do either; he's a very reflected, damaged person who isn't capable of true evil on his own, like the Mountain. What I still don't understand about Ramsey is why he didn't kill his father the moment he became a Bolton.
You'd expect from someone like him to want to have absolute power. On this note, I think Roose is maybe the only person that Ramsay has any reverence/fear/respect for, and although we don't see exactly how fucked up Roose is, you can imagine he's very terrible, if Ramsay genuinely is afraid of him You overestimate his humanity. Just because he isn't a complete asshole doesn't mean he's a nice guy. Remember this is the same guy who in the beginning of the show killed a random farm boy and didn't give a shit about it. [...]
The word 'random' isn't an entirely correct term. As Joffrey's bodyguard he was ordered to execute the butcher's boy for assaulting the prince. Hardly random. As far as giving a shit goes, you're right... he didn't lose sleep over it.
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I've always viewed The Hound as an anti-hero more than anything else. He was nowhere near perfect, but he had a good heart as the series went on. Killing that boy was probably a big wake up call for him, and he realized it. Looking at how he treated Sansa (and in some cases, Arya) was the very definition of his character.
If you watch scenes that just had interactions between The Hound and Sansa, you'd see he cares deeply for her, but he won't stop being who he is at his most basic level. The one exception is that he would have most likely NEVER hurt Sansa, a character that has been physically, emotionally, and mentally abused throughout this entire series. The Hound was one of the few if not the ONLY character that treated her as an actual person in this show.
"You'll be glad of the hateful things I do someday when you're queen, and I'm all that stands between you and your beloved king."
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so there is no technical prizes in emmys ? like special effects, music ...
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EPT![[image loading]](https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/game-of-thrones-emmy-nominations-hbo.jpg?w=670&h=377&crop=1)
