|
United States47024 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:53 chriZqq wrote:
You should add the skillbuild 1x Stun, 1x Wave, 3x Aura for some roaming situations with Venge (when you have strong lanes -> Stunduration doesnt increase, but Manacosts increase horribly)
The stun duration on VS's stun does increase, unlike in HoN. The damage/mana also increases very significantly, so even though the mana cost increases (110->140 is also not "horribly"), it's worth it considering that rank 1 Magic Missile does less than 1 damage per mana, while rank 4 does more than 2 damage per mana.
|
I'm a Dota newbie(I played Hon for over a year), and have a lot of trouble with roles/etc for heroes with no HoN equivalent, obviously.
Drow Ranger.....just wtf is her purpose? I see her all the time, and she's always farming constantly while going 3/10/5. Is she supposed to be a hard carry?
|
On December 29 2011 04:19 Sm3agol wrote:
I'm a Dota newbie(I played Hon for over a year), and have a lot of trouble with roles/etc for heroes with no HoN equivalent, obviously.
Drow Ranger.....just wtf is her purpose? I see her all the time, and she's always farming constantly while going 3/10/5. Is she supposed to be a hard carry?
She is a carry, but she's pretty tough to play correctly (poor escape ability, counter-intuitive optimal skillbuild, attack animation takes a lot of getting used to), so if you're playing in low-level games you will see a lot of people failing with her. She often hits a strong stride w/Treads, 2 Wraith Bands, and Black King Bar or Helm of the Dominator around 25 mins in
|
|
|
On December 29 2011 04:23 theqat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 04:19 Sm3agol wrote:
I'm a Dota newbie(I played Hon for over a year), and have a lot of trouble with roles/etc for heroes with no HoN equivalent, obviously.
Drow Ranger.....just wtf is her purpose? I see her all the time, and she's always farming constantly while going 3/10/5. Is she supposed to be a hard carry?
She is a carry, but she's pretty tough to play correctly (poor escape ability, counter-intuitive optimal skillbuild, attack animation takes a lot of getting used to), so if you're playing in low-level games you will see a lot of people failing with her. She often hits a strong stride w/Treads, 2 Wraith Bands, and Black King Bar or Helm of the Dominator around 25 mins in
What is the "optimal skill build"? I haven't played her much but I assumed it was 1 in arrows, max silence and stats until 8 or 9 then max slow and get TSA to hit full skills at 16-17.
e: I mean, I know this guide says to max TSA but I don't like that ONE BIT, so maybe you can explain.
|
On December 29 2011 04:52 scorch- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 04:23 theqat wrote:On December 29 2011 04:19 Sm3agol wrote:
I'm a Dota newbie(I played Hon for over a year), and have a lot of trouble with roles/etc for heroes with no HoN equivalent, obviously.
Drow Ranger.....just wtf is her purpose? I see her all the time, and she's always farming constantly while going 3/10/5. Is she supposed to be a hard carry?
She is a carry, but she's pretty tough to play correctly (poor escape ability, counter-intuitive optimal skillbuild, attack animation takes a lot of getting used to), so if you're playing in low-level games you will see a lot of people failing with her. She often hits a strong stride w/Treads, 2 Wraith Bands, and Black King Bar or Helm of the Dominator around 25 mins in What is the "optimal skill build"? I haven't played her much but I assumed it was 1 in arrows, max silence and stats until 8 or 9 then max slow and get TSA to hit full skills at 16-17. e: I mean, I know this guide says to max TSA but I don't like that ONE BIT, so maybe you can explain.
There is no perfect build, it all depends on what you want to accomplish - your build focuses on silence - why? On the first few levels 1 second more of silence isn't really important. Who are you going to cast it on?
The main decision (imo) is between TSA and arrows, one of which will get maxed at level 7(silence is maxed after that, then the other skill). Going for the arrows early makes you a better ganker, but your DPS is comparatively low. With an early TSA the boost you get from your ultimate at level 6 is pretty big, but you won't be able to chase effectively. In both cases you will need support against other heroes, because, as you noticed Drow is a carry.
|
On December 29 2011 04:52 scorch- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 04:23 theqat wrote:On December 29 2011 04:19 Sm3agol wrote:
I'm a Dota newbie(I played Hon for over a year), and have a lot of trouble with roles/etc for heroes with no HoN equivalent, obviously.
Drow Ranger.....just wtf is her purpose? I see her all the time, and she's always farming constantly while going 3/10/5. Is she supposed to be a hard carry?
She is a carry, but she's pretty tough to play correctly (poor escape ability, counter-intuitive optimal skillbuild, attack animation takes a lot of getting used to), so if you're playing in low-level games you will see a lot of people failing with her. She often hits a strong stride w/Treads, 2 Wraith Bands, and Black King Bar or Helm of the Dominator around 25 mins in What is the "optimal skill build"? I haven't played her much but I assumed it was 1 in arrows, max silence and stats until 8 or 9 then max slow and get TSA to hit full skills at 16-17. e: I mean, I know this guide says to max TSA but I don't like that ONE BIT, so maybe you can explain.
No matter what you think the optimal build is, it's not commonly 4/1/1/1 or 4/0/2/1 by 7, which is what the average newbie would probably assume--hence me calling it "counter-intuitive." Lots of people like maxing TSA by 7 to make her last-hitting unstoppable. Many good Drow players go for 1/4/4/3 by 16 (i.e. 4 levels of stats by 16) because you don't necessarily need 0-cd frost arrows to be effective.
|
her frost arrow is 0 cd at level 1 btw, just the slow changes from 10-40%
Her skill build depends on your team. If you have another slower in lane, you can get away with 1 in frost arrow. I prefer maxing trueshot though. I feel it helps pushing towers and lets you kill the stacked ancients faster with Hotd.
|
Drow is situational, she should hit her 'stride' so to say at level 16 after maxing the ultimate. The skill build can range from 1 aura, 1 frost, 1 silence, max aura and get stats and add in a level 2 of frost when you need it (level 1 frost wont give you enough to chase someone down indefinitely, 2 can sometimes, 3 is ideal). Leveling silence doesn't do enough in my opinion so i'd rather pump aura stats, but once again, it varies
Item build is also situational, i tend to prefer getting two wraith bands and treads and going either yasha ultimate orb manta then helm or helm manta, or yasha helm manta, all depends on how the games been and how yoru farm is, how safe you are, etc. In pubs if they aren't ganking very coordinated against you, then don't get a shadowblade, a lot of people feel its required on her but I disagree, its only useful if they are a good pub ganking team. Usually when pushing into their level 3's and rax you'll have enough farm, can grab a daedalus, finish into satanic (i like this the least though), or get a butterfly.
If I'm getting good farm though, and my game is going ideal, I'd get the wraith bands treads manta helm butterfly aegis then....i dunno crystalis/daedalus but would rather save money for rebuy.
|
On December 29 2011 03:53 chriZqq wrote:
You should add the skillbuild 1x Stun, 1x Wave, 3x Aura for some roaming situations with Venge (when you have strong lanes -> Stunduration doesnt increase, but Manacosts increase horribly)
Stun duration does increase now, if ever slightly. The build I have is pretty standard now among competitive players (I know this wasn't the case a few patches ago). The main reason is because the mana increase from rank 1 to 4 for stun isn't very much anymore.
|
Or you could just read the guides on playdota.com...reading these half thought 3 sentences doesnt provide you with anything and you will end up having to look up an actual guide anyway. So you've effectively wasted time looking at these to only have to go and read the actual guide.
I don't see the point because reading the actual guide you will be able to gather these 3 sentences easily and much more knowledge that is actually required to play a hero effectively.
|
On December 29 2011 06:43 Zlasher wrote:
Drow is situational, she should hit her 'stride' so to say at level 16 after maxing the ultimate. The skill build can range from 1 aura, 1 frost, 1 silence, max aura and get stats and add in a level 2 of frost when you need it (level 1 frost wont give you enough to chase someone down indefinitely, 2 can sometimes, 3 is ideal). Leveling silence doesn't do enough in my opinion so i'd rather pump aura stats, but once again, it varies
Item build is also situational, i tend to prefer getting two wraith bands and treads and going either yasha ultimate orb manta then helm or helm manta, or yasha helm manta, all depends on how the games been and how yoru farm is, how safe you are, etc. In pubs if they aren't ganking very coordinated against you, then don't get a shadowblade, a lot of people feel its required on her but I disagree, its only useful if they are a good pub ganking team. Usually when pushing into their level 3's and rax you'll have enough farm, can grab a daedalus, finish into satanic (i like this the least though), or get a butterfly.
If I'm getting good farm though, and my game is going ideal, I'd get the wraith bands treads manta helm butterfly aegis then....i dunno crystalis/daedalus but would rather save money for rebuy.
wraith bands are not very good on her, they slow down her item progression, she seriously needs helm manta bkb or helm yasha bkb asap (treads included). you should really be hitting your stride when you hit level 11, at this point you should be hitting 150-200 damage on average, if not you are behind. reason is you get +30 from ultimate, 70 natural, and then +8 and +40ish from yasha and helm. the timing should be around midgame, meaning you really should have farmed about this much by that time.
silence can change a few things, its situational but in the end it can really pay off. i only get 1 level of frost, for maximum stat abuse.
|
On December 29 2011 07:10 Retrospecd wrote:
Or you could just read the guides on playdota.com...reading these half thought 3 sentences doesnt provide you with anything and you will end up having to look up an actual guide anyway. So you've effectively wasted time looking at these to only have to go and read the actual guide.
I don't see the point because reading the actual guide you will be able to gather these 3 sentences easily and much more knowledge that is actually required to play a hero effectively.
If you know the basics of Dota (or the genre in general), all you really need is a build to play around with when starting a new hero. This is meant for players who have some experience but perhaps not with all of the heroes; for complete beginnners it'll be useless as they won't even know what the items do. For people trying to play specifically heroes competitively - well there are not really good guides for that, at least from what I've seen; you're better off watching replays or vods in that case.
|
On December 29 2011 07:27 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 06:43 Zlasher wrote:
Drow is situational, she should hit her 'stride' so to say at level 16 after maxing the ultimate. The skill build can range from 1 aura, 1 frost, 1 silence, max aura and get stats and add in a level 2 of frost when you need it (level 1 frost wont give you enough to chase someone down indefinitely, 2 can sometimes, 3 is ideal). Leveling silence doesn't do enough in my opinion so i'd rather pump aura stats, but once again, it varies
Item build is also situational, i tend to prefer getting two wraith bands and treads and going either yasha ultimate orb manta then helm or helm manta, or yasha helm manta, all depends on how the games been and how yoru farm is, how safe you are, etc. In pubs if they aren't ganking very coordinated against you, then don't get a shadowblade, a lot of people feel its required on her but I disagree, its only useful if they are a good pub ganking team. Usually when pushing into their level 3's and rax you'll have enough farm, can grab a daedalus, finish into satanic (i like this the least though), or get a butterfly.
If I'm getting good farm though, and my game is going ideal, I'd get the wraith bands treads manta helm butterfly aegis then....i dunno crystalis/daedalus but would rather save money for rebuy. wraith bands are not very good on her, they slow down her item progression, she seriously needs helm manta bkb or helm yasha bkb asap (treads included).
If you're starting with 2 slippers in lane, you're investing 190g (335 per band that you sell back for 242) for the 2 wraith bands that give you early game stats. Those bands have to get you 4-5 extra creep kills or one hero kill or non-death to pay themselves off. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
|
On December 29 2011 08:24 scorch- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 07:27 rabidch wrote:On December 29 2011 06:43 Zlasher wrote:
Drow is situational, she should hit her 'stride' so to say at level 16 after maxing the ultimate. The skill build can range from 1 aura, 1 frost, 1 silence, max aura and get stats and add in a level 2 of frost when you need it (level 1 frost wont give you enough to chase someone down indefinitely, 2 can sometimes, 3 is ideal). Leveling silence doesn't do enough in my opinion so i'd rather pump aura stats, but once again, it varies
Item build is also situational, i tend to prefer getting two wraith bands and treads and going either yasha ultimate orb manta then helm or helm manta, or yasha helm manta, all depends on how the games been and how yoru farm is, how safe you are, etc. In pubs if they aren't ganking very coordinated against you, then don't get a shadowblade, a lot of people feel its required on her but I disagree, its only useful if they are a good pub ganking team. Usually when pushing into their level 3's and rax you'll have enough farm, can grab a daedalus, finish into satanic (i like this the least though), or get a butterfly.
If I'm getting good farm though, and my game is going ideal, I'd get the wraith bands treads manta helm butterfly aegis then....i dunno crystalis/daedalus but would rather save money for rebuy. wraith bands are not very good on her, they slow down her item progression, she seriously needs helm manta bkb or helm yasha bkb asap (treads included). If you're starting with 2 slippers in lane, you're investing 190g (335 per band that you sell back for 242) for the 2 wraith bands that give you early game stats. Those bands have to get you 4-5 extra creep kills or one hero kill or non-death to pay themselves off. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
dont bother. if you are any decent with drow you will get those "4-5 extra creep kills" since you have trueshot aura and stats since you shoot at 70-80 damage very early on. you need to get up your core items asap otherwise you are just an autoattacker with 1 aoe silence skill. once you get bkb and manta you can start dealing out the damage without worrying about anything. the 335*2 gold u spend on 2 wraith bands is a big deal as it sets you back for fast treads, something you should have before level 6 otherwise again you are behind. i only get wraith bands if we're doing extremely well and i want to get the most out of jungle + static farming
|
I dunno, I disagree still but I don't think either of us will convince each other. You kill two creep waves and get those wraith bands so early that it doesn't impede your investment on your Yasha next. It helps you survive a bit more and the extra 12 damage is a pretty good early game boost. (20%)
|
United States47024 Posts
What the hell is the point of arguing about Wraiths/Nulls/Bracers? Whether or not to get them or to just sell your Slippers/Mantles/Gauntlets very much depends on how the game is going. This is true for anybody, Drow included. You don't always rush double Wraith Bands, but you also don't discount getting them when they're needed.
|
To also be fair, the type of people who are going to benefit mostly by skipping Wraiths/Nulls/Bracers are not the type of people who are going to be reading this guide anyway.
The extra stats are definitely worth it to a new player or somebody trying a new hero, imo.
|
I will always pick up wraiths/bracers whenever I fell I'm losing my lane and not getting good last hits. It really helps early and if you already picked up pieces at start, it's such a cheap boost.
|
This helps me a lot for the dota heroes that don't have a hon counterpart in dota 2. However I have had a lot more success maxing poison sting first on venomancer, followed by wards and stats. Just played a game with him where I went 8-0 in the first 15 minutes and completely shut down the lane just with auto attacks. Wards first seems situational, like if you're in a lane against double ranged and don't need to shut down a carry's farm early.
Cool guide though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
