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I always found Lothar's to be alright when the point of it wasn't the invisibility and the invis was just a bonus. Something like Admiral where Lothar's can be used for a big hit with his whip.
A great example from HoN is Puppet Master though who has the following ability:
the next attack will have a 100% chance to deal a 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2.0x critical strike and apply 25 / 50 / 70 / 100% splash damage in radius of 150
When combined with Lothar's it gives PM a huge burst damage capability while the stealth is nice for pre-fight safety for the ranged carry. But even if your enemies have 100% truevision Lothar's on a hero like PM is still a good boost to DPS by allowing for a +300 damage AoE attack.
Though IMPORTANT note, in HoN Lothar's stacks with crits, in DotA I don't think it does. So that may make all the difference in the world.
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I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.
HotD is fine on Drow...
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BKB on morph? I've never seen that or heard it suggested. Usually just get Linkens, manta, eye, eth blade.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:11 Playguuu wrote:
BKB on morph? I've never seen that or heard it suggested. Usually just get Linkens, manta, eye, eth blade.
BKB vs Linken's is situational. Against teams where Linken's is not useful (lots of stuff to pop it, no ult CCs that go through BKB), you can skip Linken's and go straight for Ethereal/Manta, and get BKB later.
Until the 6.73 changes hit DotA 2, IMO skipping Linken's and getting BKB later is better. Linken's is just too unreliable with Medallion and Urn able to pop it.
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On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.
How is max dragon blood on dk bad? Max dragon blood gives all the lane sustain you'll ever need.
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Canada2068 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:11 Playguuu wrote:
BKB on morph? I've never seen that or heard it suggested. Usually just get Linkens, manta, eye, eth blade.
In recent versions, Zhou always went Treads, BKB on morph, because he felt the traditional Linken's, Manta route was too slow/passive and he likes helping his team in teamfights during mid-game more.
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Its hard for me (someone with no dota experience) to use parts of this guide without knowing the item/hero equivalents
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Haven't seen many people get blink on zeus. Is it really worth it?
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United States47024 Posts
On December 28 2011 06:00 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice. How is max dragon blood on dk bad? Max dragon blood gives all the lane sustain you'll ever need.
I'd say its situational. A lot of your reasonable first item choices (Soul Ring, Bottle, Ring of Health) already give you regen, so it may be overkill to get more if you don't need it. Get as much Dragon Blood as you need to feel comfortable in lane, and fill out Dragon's Breath with the rest.
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On December 28 2011 07:00 Cirn9 wrote:
Its hard for me (someone with no dota experience) to use parts of this guide without knowing the item/hero equivalents
Equivalents to what? I think most of the items / heroes have the same name. Let me know which parts are unclear. I do abbreviate sometimes though, for example BKB = Black King Bar, etc.
On December 28 2011 07:18 NGrNecris wrote:
Haven't seen many people get blink on zeus. Is it really worth it?
Very much so; force staff is a good option too. Positioning is very key for zeus.
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On December 28 2011 05:05 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice. HotD is fine on Drow...
Helm of the Dominator is actually terrible on Drow considering that she already has one of the best attack modifiers in the game. So many better ways to fill a slot than HotD, but guess it's debatable if you turn off auto cast. Either way, it's not very helpful to put that item in a 30 second guide without giving any explanation...
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On December 28 2011 06:00 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice. How is max dragon blood on dk bad? Max dragon blood gives all the lane sustain you'll ever need.
Because you'll have no damage output for a long time. Get one point in it instead.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 28 2011 08:58 niggy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 05:05 TheYango wrote:On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice. HotD is fine on Drow... Helm of the Dominator is actually terrible on Drow considering that she already has one of the best attack modifiers in the game. So many better ways to fill a slot than HotD, but guess it's debatable if you turn off auto cast. Either way, it's not very helpful to put that item in a 30 second guide without giving any explanation...
In virtually every competitive game I've ever seen Drow in, she's gotten HotD (including when her Frost Arrows were even stronger and slowed attack speed as well as movement speed). Calling it "terrible" is a bit much.
The utility and improvement in farming potential you gain from having a dominated creep and being able to use it to pull camps far outweighs whatever inefficiency you feel comes with HotD's orb interfering with Frost Arrows (which, as you say, is not even an issue if you do not autocast Frost Arrows). Granted, a new player referring to these guides will probably not be able make full use out of that aspect of HotD.
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I rather have a rod of atos now with ancient apparition. So good, gives you that extra HP AA really lacks
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On December 28 2011 09:03 niggy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 06:00 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice. How is max dragon blood on dk bad? Max dragon blood gives all the lane sustain you'll ever need. Because you'll have no damage output for a long time. Get one point in it instead.
Maxing breath first is probably better cause you have more damge. But maxing blood second or in tandem with breath is probably better than maxing tail second. The increase in stun length/damage of dragon tail per level is really small, especially since lvl 1 tail already has a 2 sec stun time. Maxing dragon blood second will do more than tail imo.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On December 28 2011 08:58 niggy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 05:05 TheYango wrote:On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice. HotD is fine on Drow... Helm of the Dominator is actually terrible on Drow considering that she already has one of the best attack modifiers in the game. So many better ways to fill a slot than HotD, but guess it's debatable if you turn off auto cast. Either way, it's not very helpful to put that item in a 30 second guide without giving any explanation...
the slow arrow only slows ms, so you activate it manually when neccesary or turn it on manually when neccesary
HOTD is good because, it gives her some semblance of tankability/survivability(when high level/yasha.
It gives her a whopping 20 damage, which is fairly decent for cost
It gives her the ability to dominate creeps, allowing for stacking/ancient stacking or the 30% wolf aura for more damage(although the latter isn't used as often since it dies very fast)
It also gives her the ability to farm ancients and the jungle without any worry.
The attack modifier you turn on when neccesary, that is all, I usually apply it manually unless I am chasing someone and I am in no danger of getting killed.
I consider HOTD almost core on her.
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I'd concede that it's debatable whether or not HotD is a decent item on Drow. I prefer stacking AGI because it synergizes so well with her steroid, but I guess you could go for one. However, like someone else has already pointed out, it's not an item that one should add to a 30 second guide because there are specific techniques (i.e. creep stacking and orb switching) required to make it viable.
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On December 29 2011 03:33 niggy wrote:
I'd concede that it's debatable whether or not HotD is a decent item on Drow. I prefer stacking AGI because it synergizes so well with her steroid, but I guess you could go for one. However, like someone else has already pointed out, it's not an item that one should add to a 30 second guide because there are specific techniques (i.e. creep stacking and orb switching) required to make it viable.
HotD is gotten before finishing treads 100% of time in competitive. She can only auto attack farm and its alot of sustain.
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You should add the skillbuild 1x Stun, 1x Wave, 3x Aura for some roaming situations with Venge (when you have strong lanes -> Stunduration doesnt increase, but Manacosts increase horribly)
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EPT
