• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:32
CEST 21:32
KST 04:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash8[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy16ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research8Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool49Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win4
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 519 Inner Power The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat
Brood War
General
Gypsy to Korea ASL21 General Discussion How Can I Add Timer & APM Count? A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Azhi's Colosseum - Foreign KCM Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1585 users

[G] 5-s' 30 second guide to every hero - Page 3

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 Next All
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
December 27 2011 19:52 GMT
#41
I always found Lothar's to be alright when the point of it wasn't the invisibility and the invis was just a bonus. Something like Admiral where Lothar's can be used for a big hit with his whip.

A great example from HoN is Puppet Master though who has the following ability:
the next attack will have a 100% chance to deal a 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2.0x critical strike and apply 25 / 50 / 70 / 100% splash damage in radius of 150


When combined with Lothar's it gives PM a huge burst damage capability while the stealth is nice for pre-fight safety for the ranged carry. But even if your enemies have 100% truevision Lothar's on a hero like PM is still a good boost to DPS by allowing for a +300 damage AoE attack.

Though IMPORTANT note, in HoN Lothar's stacks with crits, in DotA I don't think it does. So that may make all the difference in the world.
Logo
niggy
Profile Joined March 2011
United States26 Posts
December 27 2011 20:02 GMT
#42
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.
My wife for Hiur
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 27 2011 20:05 GMT
#43
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

HotD is fine on Drow...
Moderator
Playguuu
Profile Joined April 2010
United States926 Posts
December 27 2011 20:11 GMT
#44
BKB on morph? I've never seen that or heard it suggested. Usually just get Linkens, manta, eye, eth blade.
I used to be just like you, then I took a sweetroll to the knee.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-27 20:31:45
December 27 2011 20:20 GMT
#45
On December 28 2011 05:11 Playguuu wrote:
BKB on morph? I've never seen that or heard it suggested. Usually just get Linkens, manta, eye, eth blade.

BKB vs Linken's is situational. Against teams where Linken's is not useful (lots of stuff to pop it, no ult CCs that go through BKB), you can skip Linken's and go straight for Ethereal/Manta, and get BKB later.

Until the 6.73 changes hit DotA 2, IMO skipping Linken's and getting BKB later is better. Linken's is just too unreliable with Medallion and Urn able to pop it.
Moderator
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
December 27 2011 21:00 GMT
#46
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

How is max dragon blood on dk bad? Max dragon blood gives all the lane sustain you'll ever need.
CountChocula
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada2068 Posts
December 27 2011 21:05 GMT
#47
On December 28 2011 05:11 Playguuu wrote:
BKB on morph? I've never seen that or heard it suggested. Usually just get Linkens, manta, eye, eth blade.

In recent versions, Zhou always went Treads, BKB on morph, because he felt the traditional Linken's, Manta route was too slow/passive and he likes helping his team in teamfights during mid-game more.
Writer我会让他们连馒头都吃不到 Those championships owed me over the years, I will take them back one by one.
Cirn9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1117 Posts
December 27 2011 22:00 GMT
#48
Its hard for me (someone with no dota experience) to use parts of this guide without knowing the item/hero equivalents
Unprotected sex is like fast expanding in close positions. Its risky, but feels great when it works out
NGrNecris
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand855 Posts
December 27 2011 22:18 GMT
#49
Haven't seen many people get blink on zeus. Is it really worth it?
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 27 2011 22:18 GMT
#50
On December 28 2011 06:00 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

How is max dragon blood on dk bad? Max dragon blood gives all the lane sustain you'll ever need.

I'd say its situational. A lot of your reasonable first item choices (Soul Ring, Bottle, Ring of Health) already give you regen, so it may be overkill to get more if you don't need it. Get as much Dragon Blood as you need to feel comfortable in lane, and fill out Dragon's Breath with the rest.
Moderator
5-s
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1674 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-27 22:20:18
December 27 2011 22:19 GMT
#51
On December 28 2011 07:00 Cirn9 wrote:
Its hard for me (someone with no dota experience) to use parts of this guide without knowing the item/hero equivalents

Equivalents to what? I think most of the items / heroes have the same name. Let me know which parts are unclear. I do abbreviate sometimes though, for example BKB = Black King Bar, etc.


On December 28 2011 07:18 NGrNecris wrote:
Haven't seen many people get blink on zeus. Is it really worth it?

Very much so; force staff is a good option too. Positioning is very key for zeus.
I liked Dota before it was Mainstream.
niggy
Profile Joined March 2011
United States26 Posts
December 27 2011 23:58 GMT
#52
On December 28 2011 05:05 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

HotD is fine on Drow...

Helm of the Dominator is actually terrible on Drow considering that she already has one of the best attack modifiers in the game. So many better ways to fill a slot than HotD, but guess it's debatable if you turn off auto cast. Either way, it's not very helpful to put that item in a 30 second guide without giving any explanation...
My wife for Hiur
niggy
Profile Joined March 2011
United States26 Posts
December 28 2011 00:03 GMT
#53
On December 28 2011 06:00 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

How is max dragon blood on dk bad? Max dragon blood gives all the lane sustain you'll ever need.

Because you'll have no damage output for a long time. Get one point in it instead.
My wife for Hiur
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-28 00:13:44
December 28 2011 00:06 GMT
#54
On December 28 2011 08:58 niggy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2011 05:05 TheYango wrote:
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

HotD is fine on Drow...

Helm of the Dominator is actually terrible on Drow considering that she already has one of the best attack modifiers in the game. So many better ways to fill a slot than HotD, but guess it's debatable if you turn off auto cast. Either way, it's not very helpful to put that item in a 30 second guide without giving any explanation...

In virtually every competitive game I've ever seen Drow in, she's gotten HotD (including when her Frost Arrows were even stronger and slowed attack speed as well as movement speed). Calling it "terrible" is a bit much.

The utility and improvement in farming potential you gain from having a dominated creep and being able to use it to pull camps far outweighs whatever inefficiency you feel comes with HotD's orb interfering with Frost Arrows (which, as you say, is not even an issue if you do not autocast Frost Arrows). Granted, a new player referring to these guides will probably not be able make full use out of that aspect of HotD.
Moderator
PetitCrabe
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada410 Posts
December 28 2011 00:18 GMT
#55
I rather have a rod of atos now with ancient apparition. So good, gives you that extra HP AA really lacks
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
December 28 2011 01:42 GMT
#56
On December 28 2011 09:03 niggy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2011 06:00 Ryuu314 wrote:
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

How is max dragon blood on dk bad? Max dragon blood gives all the lane sustain you'll ever need.

Because you'll have no damage output for a long time. Get one point in it instead.

Maxing breath first is probably better cause you have more damge. But maxing blood second or in tandem with breath is probably better than maxing tail second. The increase in stun length/damage of dragon tail per level is really small, especially since lvl 1 tail already has a 2 sec stun time. Maxing dragon blood second will do more than tail imo.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-28 02:57:19
December 28 2011 02:55 GMT
#57
On December 28 2011 08:58 niggy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2011 05:05 TheYango wrote:
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

HotD is fine on Drow...

Helm of the Dominator is actually terrible on Drow considering that she already has one of the best attack modifiers in the game. So many better ways to fill a slot than HotD, but guess it's debatable if you turn off auto cast. Either way, it's not very helpful to put that item in a 30 second guide without giving any explanation...


the slow arrow only slows ms, so you activate it manually when neccesary or turn it on manually when neccesary

HOTD is good because, it gives her some semblance of tankability/survivability(when high level/yasha.
It gives her a whopping 20 damage, which is fairly decent for cost
It gives her the ability to dominate creeps, allowing for stacking/ancient stacking or the 30% wolf aura for more damage(although the latter isn't used as often since it dies very fast)
It also gives her the ability to farm ancients and the jungle without any worry.

The attack modifier you turn on when neccesary, that is all, I usually apply it manually unless I am chasing someone and I am in no danger of getting killed.

I consider HOTD almost core on her.
WriterXiao8~~
niggy
Profile Joined March 2011
United States26 Posts
December 28 2011 18:33 GMT
#58
I'd concede that it's debatable whether or not HotD is a decent item on Drow. I prefer stacking AGI because it synergizes so well with her steroid, but I guess you could go for one. However, like someone else has already pointed out, it's not an item that one should add to a 30 second guide because there are specific techniques (i.e. creep stacking and orb switching) required to make it viable.
My wife for Hiur
RQShatter
Profile Joined August 2010
United States459 Posts
December 28 2011 18:43 GMT
#59
On December 29 2011 03:33 niggy wrote:
I'd concede that it's debatable whether or not HotD is a decent item on Drow. I prefer stacking AGI because it synergizes so well with her steroid, but I guess you could go for one. However, like someone else has already pointed out, it's not an item that one should add to a 30 second guide because there are specific techniques (i.e. creep stacking and orb switching) required to make it viable.


HotD is gotten before finishing treads 100% of time in competitive. She can only auto attack farm and its alot of sustain.
chriZqq
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
141 Posts
December 28 2011 18:53 GMT
#60
You should add the skillbuild 1x Stun, 1x Wave, 3x Aura for some roaming situations with Venge (when you have strong lanes -> Stunduration doesnt increase, but Manacosts increase horribly)
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 28m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 163
ProTech136
Hui .91
gerald23 28
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4517
Mini 967
Horang2 623
EffOrt 399
firebathero 318
BeSt 226
Soulkey 215
actioN 155
Dewaltoss 90
hero 51
[ Show more ]
Backho 34
Aegong 22
Sexy 20
910 16
IntoTheRainbow 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever103
capcasts58
Counter-Strike
fl0m1355
byalli746
minikerr0
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu405
MindelVK8
Other Games
gofns9646
summit1g3622
Grubby3268
FrodaN1710
Beastyqt618
RotterdaM528
ArmadaUGS192
Fuzer 157
ToD134
C9.Mang0119
QueenE73
Trikslyr43
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 42
• 80smullet 24
• HerbMon 12
• RayReign 9
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV781
• lizZardDota2110
Other Games
• imaqtpie929
• Shiphtur186
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 28m
RSL Revival
14h 28m
Maru vs MaxPax
BSL
23h 28m
RSL Revival
1d 11h
Cure vs Rogue
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 18h
BSL
1d 23h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.