• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 20:50
CET 02:50
KST 10:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !11Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced! What's the best tug of war? The Grack before Christmas Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion How soO Began His ProGaming Dreams Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA)
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] LB SemiFinals - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] WB & LB Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread 12 Days of Starcraft The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
National Diversity: A Challe…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1828 users

[G] 5-s' 30 second guide to every hero - Page 3

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 Next All
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
December 27 2011 19:52 GMT
#41
I always found Lothar's to be alright when the point of it wasn't the invisibility and the invis was just a bonus. Something like Admiral where Lothar's can be used for a big hit with his whip.

A great example from HoN is Puppet Master though who has the following ability:
the next attack will have a 100% chance to deal a 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2.0x critical strike and apply 25 / 50 / 70 / 100% splash damage in radius of 150


When combined with Lothar's it gives PM a huge burst damage capability while the stealth is nice for pre-fight safety for the ranged carry. But even if your enemies have 100% truevision Lothar's on a hero like PM is still a good boost to DPS by allowing for a +300 damage AoE attack.

Though IMPORTANT note, in HoN Lothar's stacks with crits, in DotA I don't think it does. So that may make all the difference in the world.
Logo
niggy
Profile Joined March 2011
United States26 Posts
December 27 2011 20:02 GMT
#42
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.
My wife for Hiur
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 27 2011 20:05 GMT
#43
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

HotD is fine on Drow...
Moderator
Playguuu
Profile Joined April 2010
United States926 Posts
December 27 2011 20:11 GMT
#44
BKB on morph? I've never seen that or heard it suggested. Usually just get Linkens, manta, eye, eth blade.
I used to be just like you, then I took a sweetroll to the knee.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-27 20:31:45
December 27 2011 20:20 GMT
#45
On December 28 2011 05:11 Playguuu wrote:
BKB on morph? I've never seen that or heard it suggested. Usually just get Linkens, manta, eye, eth blade.

BKB vs Linken's is situational. Against teams where Linken's is not useful (lots of stuff to pop it, no ult CCs that go through BKB), you can skip Linken's and go straight for Ethereal/Manta, and get BKB later.

Until the 6.73 changes hit DotA 2, IMO skipping Linken's and getting BKB later is better. Linken's is just too unreliable with Medallion and Urn able to pop it.
Moderator
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
December 27 2011 21:00 GMT
#46
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

How is max dragon blood on dk bad? Max dragon blood gives all the lane sustain you'll ever need.
CountChocula
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada2068 Posts
December 27 2011 21:05 GMT
#47
On December 28 2011 05:11 Playguuu wrote:
BKB on morph? I've never seen that or heard it suggested. Usually just get Linkens, manta, eye, eth blade.

In recent versions, Zhou always went Treads, BKB on morph, because he felt the traditional Linken's, Manta route was too slow/passive and he likes helping his team in teamfights during mid-game more.
Writer我会让他们连馒头都吃不到 Those championships owed me over the years, I will take them back one by one.
Cirn9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1117 Posts
December 27 2011 22:00 GMT
#48
Its hard for me (someone with no dota experience) to use parts of this guide without knowing the item/hero equivalents
Unprotected sex is like fast expanding in close positions. Its risky, but feels great when it works out
NGrNecris
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand855 Posts
December 27 2011 22:18 GMT
#49
Haven't seen many people get blink on zeus. Is it really worth it?
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 27 2011 22:18 GMT
#50
On December 28 2011 06:00 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

How is max dragon blood on dk bad? Max dragon blood gives all the lane sustain you'll ever need.

I'd say its situational. A lot of your reasonable first item choices (Soul Ring, Bottle, Ring of Health) already give you regen, so it may be overkill to get more if you don't need it. Get as much Dragon Blood as you need to feel comfortable in lane, and fill out Dragon's Breath with the rest.
Moderator
5-s
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1674 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-27 22:20:18
December 27 2011 22:19 GMT
#51
On December 28 2011 07:00 Cirn9 wrote:
Its hard for me (someone with no dota experience) to use parts of this guide without knowing the item/hero equivalents

Equivalents to what? I think most of the items / heroes have the same name. Let me know which parts are unclear. I do abbreviate sometimes though, for example BKB = Black King Bar, etc.


On December 28 2011 07:18 NGrNecris wrote:
Haven't seen many people get blink on zeus. Is it really worth it?

Very much so; force staff is a good option too. Positioning is very key for zeus.
I liked Dota before it was Mainstream.
niggy
Profile Joined March 2011
United States26 Posts
December 27 2011 23:58 GMT
#52
On December 28 2011 05:05 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

HotD is fine on Drow...

Helm of the Dominator is actually terrible on Drow considering that she already has one of the best attack modifiers in the game. So many better ways to fill a slot than HotD, but guess it's debatable if you turn off auto cast. Either way, it's not very helpful to put that item in a 30 second guide without giving any explanation...
My wife for Hiur
niggy
Profile Joined March 2011
United States26 Posts
December 28 2011 00:03 GMT
#53
On December 28 2011 06:00 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

How is max dragon blood on dk bad? Max dragon blood gives all the lane sustain you'll ever need.

Because you'll have no damage output for a long time. Get one point in it instead.
My wife for Hiur
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-28 00:13:44
December 28 2011 00:06 GMT
#54
On December 28 2011 08:58 niggy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2011 05:05 TheYango wrote:
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

HotD is fine on Drow...

Helm of the Dominator is actually terrible on Drow considering that she already has one of the best attack modifiers in the game. So many better ways to fill a slot than HotD, but guess it's debatable if you turn off auto cast. Either way, it's not very helpful to put that item in a 30 second guide without giving any explanation...

In virtually every competitive game I've ever seen Drow in, she's gotten HotD (including when her Frost Arrows were even stronger and slowed attack speed as well as movement speed). Calling it "terrible" is a bit much.

The utility and improvement in farming potential you gain from having a dominated creep and being able to use it to pull camps far outweighs whatever inefficiency you feel comes with HotD's orb interfering with Frost Arrows (which, as you say, is not even an issue if you do not autocast Frost Arrows). Granted, a new player referring to these guides will probably not be able make full use out of that aspect of HotD.
Moderator
PetitCrabe
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada410 Posts
December 28 2011 00:18 GMT
#55
I rather have a rod of atos now with ancient apparition. So good, gives you that extra HP AA really lacks
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
December 28 2011 01:42 GMT
#56
On December 28 2011 09:03 niggy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2011 06:00 Ryuu314 wrote:
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

How is max dragon blood on dk bad? Max dragon blood gives all the lane sustain you'll ever need.

Because you'll have no damage output for a long time. Get one point in it instead.

Maxing breath first is probably better cause you have more damge. But maxing blood second or in tandem with breath is probably better than maxing tail second. The increase in stun length/damage of dragon tail per level is really small, especially since lvl 1 tail already has a 2 sec stun time. Maxing dragon blood second will do more than tail imo.
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-28 02:57:19
December 28 2011 02:55 GMT
#57
On December 28 2011 08:58 niggy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2011 05:05 TheYango wrote:
On December 28 2011 05:02 niggy wrote:
I appreciate all of the work you did to do this but...some of these skill and item builds are really bad (e.g. max Dragon Blood on Dragon Knight, Helm of the Dominator on Drow...). I don't think a 30 second guide for a hero is capable of doing them justice.

HotD is fine on Drow...

Helm of the Dominator is actually terrible on Drow considering that she already has one of the best attack modifiers in the game. So many better ways to fill a slot than HotD, but guess it's debatable if you turn off auto cast. Either way, it's not very helpful to put that item in a 30 second guide without giving any explanation...


the slow arrow only slows ms, so you activate it manually when neccesary or turn it on manually when neccesary

HOTD is good because, it gives her some semblance of tankability/survivability(when high level/yasha.
It gives her a whopping 20 damage, which is fairly decent for cost
It gives her the ability to dominate creeps, allowing for stacking/ancient stacking or the 30% wolf aura for more damage(although the latter isn't used as often since it dies very fast)
It also gives her the ability to farm ancients and the jungle without any worry.

The attack modifier you turn on when neccesary, that is all, I usually apply it manually unless I am chasing someone and I am in no danger of getting killed.

I consider HOTD almost core on her.
WriterXiao8~~
niggy
Profile Joined March 2011
United States26 Posts
December 28 2011 18:33 GMT
#58
I'd concede that it's debatable whether or not HotD is a decent item on Drow. I prefer stacking AGI because it synergizes so well with her steroid, but I guess you could go for one. However, like someone else has already pointed out, it's not an item that one should add to a 30 second guide because there are specific techniques (i.e. creep stacking and orb switching) required to make it viable.
My wife for Hiur
RQShatter
Profile Joined August 2010
United States459 Posts
December 28 2011 18:43 GMT
#59
On December 29 2011 03:33 niggy wrote:
I'd concede that it's debatable whether or not HotD is a decent item on Drow. I prefer stacking AGI because it synergizes so well with her steroid, but I guess you could go for one. However, like someone else has already pointed out, it's not an item that one should add to a 30 second guide because there are specific techniques (i.e. creep stacking and orb switching) required to make it viable.


HotD is gotten before finishing treads 100% of time in competitive. She can only auto attack farm and its alot of sustain.
chriZqq
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
141 Posts
December 28 2011 18:53 GMT
#60
You should add the skillbuild 1x Stun, 1x Wave, 3x Aura for some roaming situations with Venge (when you have strong lanes -> Stunduration doesnt increase, but Manacosts increase horribly)
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 10m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 273
Vindicta 102
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 708
GoRush 64
yabsab 36
NaDa 33
Dota 2
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
minikerr29
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor193
Other Games
tarik_tv6792
summit1g6302
JimRising 372
ViBE159
XaKoH 118
Mew2King87
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1429
BasetradeTV53
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki4
• Pr0nogo 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21451
League of Legends
• Doublelift6313
• Stunt323
Other Games
• imaqtpie2789
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
8h 10m
Krystianer vs Classic
TriGGeR vs SKillous
Percival vs Ryung
ByuN vs Nicoract
OSC
16h 10m
BSL 21
18h 10m
Cross vs Dewalt
Replay Cast
1d 7h
Wardi Open
1d 10h
OSC
2 days
Solar vs MaxPax
ByuN vs Krystianer
Spirit vs TBD
OSC
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
OSC
6 days
OSC
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1 - W1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Escore Tournament S1 - W2
Escore Tournament S1 - W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.