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chobopeon
United States7342 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:03 Megalisk wrote: inb4 kids agree with nony solely because he is nony without actually reading the thread you read the thread. it's full of bizarre hypothetical defenses and chest-thumping selfishness. "I won't change my vocabulary if it hurts someone! THAT'S FREEDOM BABY!" | ||
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Moop
Sweden50 Posts
On August 14 2010 04:54 Osmoses wrote: Morals are not debatable. There are no simple answers. Don't worry son, you'll grow out of it. They are debatable just because there are no simple answers. That's how our morals have progressed over the last couple of thousand years, through philosophy and debate. | ||
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Runsta
United States161 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:03 atrain117 wrote: I believe you are talking about ethics. Morals are the values embedded in you since day 1. They are almost impossible to change let alone debate. Argue maybe, but a moral debate for the sake of changing the other person's views is pointless and won't work. Ethic on the other hand encompass the gray area and were probably what you were thinking about. They are regularly debated and usually revolve around dilemmas where there is no 100% correct answer. On the matter of rape, I think we should create a rhyming word to express the gaming version. Shall we use Grape... oh wait, blizzard's forum word filter also filters out that word. Try discussing the Grapes of Wrath and see what it gets you on there.... but I digress... | ||
KwarK
United States44398 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:01 Liquid`Tyler wrote: I agree with the OP but I'm losing my will to provide good arguments for my opinions because they hardly ever make a difference amongst this crowd. I suppose most gamers have a strong enough combination of feebleness and selfishness that improving their vocabulary for this cause is an insurmountable task. But they feel a bit of guilt so they must repel it with embarrassingly stupid rationalizations and that's the purpose this thread now seems to serve. It's far more selfish for someone to ask me to censor myself so they cannot be offended by their own ignorance than it is for me to speak freely and risk them hurting themselves. As I said on the first page, I don't use the word, but I will always object whenever anyone demands censorship to avoid their own issues, be it religious, scientific or emotional. | ||
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BillClinton
232 Posts
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:00 neohero9 wrote: The degree of pleasure gained by gamers using the word "rape" is nearly zero; they can substitute another word, with approximately the same meaning, without the vile connotation that rape has. It's actual definition doesn't matter; the immediate thought that comes to mind when someone says the word to another normal person is the issue. However, the amount of pain dredged up from someone being reminded of this thing that happened to them is incredible. I will never know what it's like to have endured this kind of trauma-- my girlfriend does. I can see the pain she goes thru when a rape scene happens in a movie, or when my brother and his friend make rape jokes. It's something I will never feel, but it is something that is worse than anything I could ever gain by employing this word. Even if it were a million people tossing this word around, against one lone person on the planet who had been raped, we ought to change it because the degrees are in favor of doing so. See that's the problem here, is it is very hard to compare small pleasures added up many times against a single instance great suffering. There is no real mathematical way to do it even though we use mathematical terms. In the end there is only our beliefs about what produces the greatest pleasure. I personally think it produces more pleasure for the many on this site to use the word "rape" than pain to the few like you who have been personally touched. | ||
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FireBlast!
United Kingdom5251 Posts
And with Nony for that matter. My wishful thinking is that if people's defence is that the use of the word is arbitrary and harmless, then take on board some of the issues here and use apolitical words. Importantly I also sincerely do believe that a worrying proporition of the gaming community actually do use terms "Rape" "Gay" "Fag" with a 'knowing' malicious intent because, let's face it, the gaming industry promotes overwhelmingly hetero-normative values given that its audience is primarily male youth. | ||
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zerglingsfolife
United States1694 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:02 choboPEon wrote: This really has nothing to do with anything. On August 14 2010 03:56 SpicyCrab wrote: And we wonder why women don't want to join our communities and play us? | ||
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Ghad
Norway2551 Posts
 So here: The teacher comes into the class room: "Kids, there are two words I want you to stop using in my classrom. The first one is epic, and the other one is lame." "Ok teacher, sure, which words?" Ahem. Apart from that, I have to agree with OP that rape is a bad word to use. Owning, roflstomping, etc, etc, we have so many suitable synonyms that are much better. | ||
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neohero9
United States595 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:06 keV. wrote: It does say a lot about me, you're right. I like reading and I'm an adult. No one in the entire thread ever said anything about rape being the victim's fault or that its not a big deal. The post that I quoted is either: a) An idiot posting something stupid. b) A troll, straw-maning and trying to fish for more responses. I don't have a problem with casters omitting the word rape if they want. That is their choice. The idea that, if they don't, they are being small-minded or hurtful is something I don't agree with. It's just a word being used in the correct context. There are lots of spoken words that will cause someones ears to perk up. Niggardly is a good example. You can't omit words from the english language because they are hurtful to some individuals. Omitting the word from the language is not the point. Removing it from our vocabulary because it provides NO GAIN, at GREAT (if infrequently incurred) COST is. | ||
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Nytefish
United Kingdom4282 Posts
I also have to avoid using 'gay' and 'faggot' even as playful insults because it would offend my gay friends if I blurted it out of habit. And the same with 'nazi' for the few german people I know. I'm not going to convince others to do the same though, not only is it impossible, but for people who's main community is an online gaming one you could even call it the social norm. | ||
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Megalisk
United States6095 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:06 choboPEon wrote: you read the thread. it's full of bizarre hypothetical defenses and chest-thumping selfishness. "I won't change my vocabulary if it hurts someone! THAT'S FREEDOM BABY!" Ok I'm sorry, I'll stop using rape and only stick to the norm like "kill". Oh wait whats that? Thousands of more people are killed everyday than raped. I guess I cant use that either because its offensive. Those zealots got "snugglepuffed" by those vultures. Now thats more like it!~ | ||
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Moop
Sweden50 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:06 choboPEon wrote: you read the thread. it's full of bizarre hypothetical defenses and chest-thumping selfishness. "I won't change my vocabulary if it hurts someone! THAT'S FREEDOM BABY!" That's not the point people are making at all. People are making the point that words have different meaning in different context and that people will get hurt regardless, our usage of the word "Rape" is probably the least of real rape victims problems. They will not fucking forget about it if we stop using the word. | ||
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Sephy90
United States1785 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:00 SpicyCrab wrote: Why should we even force them to deal with that? Why should we push this in their faces? Because it's fun for us? Because it's easier? Because we enjoy using the word? Really? Who the hell is forcing them to deal with it and push it in their faces? Are you trying to stop the whole world from using the word "Rape" and should this word be so damned forbidden? I can understand stopping the use on forums or specific things in a thread, but one thing is for sure, you won't stop this use of the word in the real world. edit: also, don't look down on TL just because some of us like to use the word "Rape" I found that to be pretty arrogant. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32161 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:06 keV. wrote: It does say a lot about me, you're right. I like reading and I'm an adult. No one in the entire thread ever said anything about rape being the victim's fault or that its not a big deal. The post that I quoted is either: a) An idiot posting something stupid. b) A troll, straw-maning and trying to fish for more responses. I don't have a problem with casters omitting the word rape if they want. That is their choice. The idea that, if they don't, they are being small-minded or hurtful is something I don't agree with. It's just a word being used in the correct context. There are lots of spoken words that will cause someones ears to perk up. Niggardly is a good example. You can't omit words from the english language because they are hurtful to some individuals. The point is that he wasn't intentionally using a strawman or was "fishing for more responses." That is quite clear if you've followed this thread. Doing so unintentionally is completely different, and can fall under category A if you really want it to. | ||
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SpicyCrab
402 Posts
You seem to miss the fact that many users in this thread have indicated that they don't think it's a big deal and that the impetus should be on the victims to get over it. So I was making the point that that is incorrect. And that we should not put the blame on the victim in any way. We should not assign guilt to a victim for being hurt by the word. That is not trolling, and it's not really a straw man either. :/ | ||
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chobopeon
United States7342 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:02 iSiN wrote: If I say faggot it doesn't mean I'm homophobic, look at the meaning behind my yelling. If I look at a homosexual and snarl the word faggot and turn up my nose that's homophobic, BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WORD FAGGOT all of my actions tone and body language are what is offensive the word is just there to ensure they remember exactly what I was doing to them. You don't mean to be homophobic when you say faggot, but the gay dude who got the shit beaten out of him in school and had to go through hell growing up and was constantly called faggot .. well, he needs to realize that words have different meanings? How about, instead, you realize that words don't exist in a vacuum. You don't get to make up what words mean, despite what people in this thread tell you. Rape and faggot have long histories and although words do change over time, these two words have not lost any of their more terrible meanings. | ||
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:09 Megalisk wrote: Ok I'm sorry, I'll stop using rape and only stick to the norm like "kill". Oh wait whats that? Thousands of more people are killed everyday than raped. I guess I cant use that either because its offensive. Those zealots got "snugglepuffed" by those vultures. Now thats more like it!~ lol indeed | ||
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