On August 14 2010 05:03 HeavOnEarth wrote: If i said rape in front of a rape victim and they broke down in tears, i wouldn't change my vocabulary or ideals or values or w/e the shit u guys are sprouting in here. I would just call a therapist and get her/him(?) some help. Dodeedo
/signed.
Seriously if you have trouble with a word being a problem to you; seek help. I dont care what the word is, if ANY word causes you fierce trauma you need to work out some personal issues.
Freedom of speech shouldn't be restricted becaise some people might have their feelings get hurt. Especially in the internet where you can talk to so many different people, trying not to offend anyone is a waste of time. Now it's "don't say rape, it hurts my feelings." After a while it'll be "don't say kill because my X was killed and it offends me."
On August 14 2010 05:11 UbOs wrote: seriously though, it's SO much easier to not say rape than it is to get over the psychological damage of being raped.
Yes, I think all of us in the real world would refrain from use the word "rape" in front of women that we are less familiar with or people we think might have a problem with it. The question is should we do it in an online setting.
Here, only a very few people will have to get over the psychological damage, while a great many people will have to change their behavior to accommodate. Furthermore, a lot of people simply don't really care about you. They don't know who you are, and you are a stranger to them. You can talk about the pain of being raped and most will post some sympathetic one-liner, but the amount of time out of the day they take to feel bad for you, and the feeling itself, is infinitesimal. In a real world setting you usually have more attachment to the people you talk to and really see their pain and feel bad for them.
And it's not just immature idiots and kids that seem so preoccupied with the word. I've heard MLG commentators almost say it.
I can tell that he doesn't mean to use it, but I have even caught Day9 using the word during casts. Always with a slight hesitation and barely noticeable "oops expression" afterwards. I don't mean to call him out here, but I think it illustrates my point.
When you call people on it the response is always the same, "well we're not talking about 'real' killing, it's just an expression."
I want every one to understand what that word means to people. To those who have had personal experience with killing (I am not such a person btw) it brings to mind horrid memories, horrific thoughts of powerlessness; intense agony and pain.
What's worse, when the word is used in passing by ignorant gamers it cheapens its meaning, it is as if you're saying, "oh this isn't a big deal at all."
I knew a girl (a daughter of a kill victim) who used to become enraged when my gamer friends would talk about "killing each other."
And they would say "sorry, I didn't mean to; I meant to say I owned him"
And she would say "It makes me really sad that that means the same thing."
And we wonder why people don't want to join our communities and play us?
Now I know a lot of people will think they are being clever when they reply to this thread and say "yeah I hate killing let's kill killing." Or make some other idiotic comment which only reinforces my point. Please don't be one of those idiots.
Understand how it makes our community look from the outside, and how it makes gamers as a whole look to the rest of the world. We do not have to stoop so low just to have fun.
So this is just an open letter to TL and really all of gaming. Stop using this word, there are many substitutes which are much less abhorrent. Please understand that killing is a real problem, a real issue, and that it is an emotionally charged word that can cause real emotional damage to those who hear.
There is no justification and no excuse for the use of this word in the flippant way that it is thrown around. Just stop.
"Red" is a sensitive word to me , i associate it with bleeding - pls refrain from using that word in the future thx gg no re
Why does racism get the single pass? Sexism is out the window?
(To those who are about to say men can be raped: true, but it happens at a much, much lower rate than it does to women. Men suffer from it but it is really a women's issue.)
I think its quite thoughtless and naive to not understand and account for the fact that the context that other people interpret words that you use may differ from yours.
Sure by saying rape, faggot, or n*gger you may *mean* to say something that is not offensive to rape victims, gays or black people, but the bottom line is that it doesn't matter what you intend if it is quite obvious that people could/will interpret it differently in a manner that is very offensive to them.
The infantile defense of using words like this just gives the mainstream more reason to stereotype the gaming/online community in negative ways.
If you genuinely are interested in the growth of e-sports and the gaming community, and have the maturity to realize that not everyone interprets things from the narrow point of reference that is yours (this isn't an insult -> everyone's point of reference is narrow in comparison to the collective), then the overwhelmingly obvious choice is to not use these words unless you are in a context (i.e. a custom game with a friend) where you know they will be interpreted in a way that doesn't make gamers seem like bigot trolls who hide in their basements.
I would love to see the gaming community get more mainstream (SC2) in particular. This would lead to way bigger tournaments, a bigger fanbase, and mostly good things for the community and TL. Try to do what you can to not hinder this process.
I agree with the OP. We really should be more cautious when it comes to words that can be offensive to some people, even if they're considered a minority. Why? Understanding different cultures is HARD. Just because the gaming culture allows the use of words like "rape" doesn't mean it's acceptable universally. Yeah, you can say they're ignorant, but who in their right mind will want to explore a culture, particularly the gaming culture, if the first thing he's heard was something unacceptable in his culture his entire life? It's like the gaming culture isn't opening up to others. We all want this culture to grow, right? Well how about we start conforming to the language the majority accepts, and not just us.
But anyway, the word "rape" isn't really a problem in this culture just because of the fact that only a few people still use that word. Still, I understand where the OP is coming from.
Something that's changed over the years in language is the word nigger. you hear black people say it but it's not offensive anymore(at least when they use it). They've changed it into something different through the wonders of the english language. Not sure if rape could do that, but I don't think words can really hurt someone. It's just the meaning and context they're used in after all. Languages have a lot of double speak and rhetorical devices etc. I've learned to dismiss the never-matured kids that use 'gay' or 'fag' even in their late 20s as a hate word because it's their issue, not mine. I know it can be hard to do this(I'm gay), but the alternative is quite extreme political correctness.
On August 14 2010 05:03 Megalisk wrote: inb4 kids agree with nony solely because he is nony without actually reading the thread
you read the thread. it's full of bizarre hypothetical defenses and chest-thumping selfishness. "I won't change my vocabulary if it hurts someone! THAT'S FREEDOM BABY!"
Ok I'm sorry, I'll stop using rape and only stick to the norm like "kill". Oh wait whats that? Thousands of more people are killed everyday than raped. I guess I cant use that either because its offensive. Those zealots got "snugglepuffed" by those vultures. Now thats more like it!~
lol indeed
yeah because the 'norms' reduce your degree of articulation into words of complete semantic irrelevance like "snugglepuff"
Best watch out homie or I'll have to snugglepuff u.
Be my guest, ill dragonite you to into submission
I once owned a dragonite, but hes gone now . Please change your post I find it offensive .
I'm tempted to just say it's run its course and lock it but maybe some more discussion could be had. Stupid posts will be responded to with penalties though. Consider yourself warned.
It seems like people are really blowing OP's request out of proportion, i.e. if someone doesn't stop saying 'rape' then he will literally go to their house and rape them
Personally, I feel that the issue is more that gaming partly doesn't get the respect it deserves in North American society, because of the behaviour of the players involved (at least of the average joes, like the thirteen-year-olds on xbox live). Like someone said in a post above, it may be ok to say the n-word between your friends when you have good mutual understanding, but it's absolutely inacceptable to say it on a broadcasted match.
Edit: lol I have the same point as reason - i swear i wasn't just copying your post
On August 14 2010 05:15 Badjas wrote: Agree with OP. Giving rape a double meaning (well, triple if you count the plant) in the way it does, where the action of rape in one context is a glorification of 'the rapist', while in the other context it is one of the most gruesome things in life, is bad. Me saying it is bad won't help out the cause of getting rid of it at all, but perhaps those 'in power' for such things, mainly casters, could make a difference. If they so feel like, of course.
The statistics for sexual harassment are shocking. It's hard to find some global statics, I googled this and I've read numbers between 50% and 80% before. There are a lot of people who don't feel comfortable with the usage of such a word, think about it. Even if peer pressure makes you fear to be seen as a wuss for abstaining from using 'rape' the wrong way.
They get girls to admit they've been sexually harassed in the most retarded ways though. I remember some group came to my school once, and they asked if girls had ever been to clubs before and some guy came and started dancing with them via grinding without asking them first. If that caused an uncomfortable situation for them/they didn't want him to do it, they have been sexually harassed. A guy not even hardcore grindng but putting his hands on a girls waist in the same manner at a club (aka one of the main ways you dance wiht strangers) is also considered sexual harassment.
Also having sex with a drunk girl is rape, so you never know how those skew numbers (aka girl that got too drunk, had sex with guy consenting [well not legally] then next morning says guy took advantage of her. And I'm not talking about her being blacked out or anything, just drunk).
You seem to miss the fact that many users in this thread have indicated that they don't think it's a big deal and that the impetus should be on the victims to get over it.
So I was making the point that that is incorrect. And that we should not put the blame on the victim in any way. We should not assign guilt to a victim for being hurt by the word. That is not trolling, and it's not really a straw man either. :/
Actually, it is a straw man. You are indicating that people who disagree with you believe that rape is the victim's fault. This is the definition of a straw man.
On August 14 2010 05:02 iSiN wrote: If I say faggot it doesn't mean I'm homophobic, look at the meaning behind my yelling. If I look at a homosexual and snarl the word faggot and turn up my nose that's homophobic, BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WORD FAGGOT all of my actions tone and body language are what is offensive the word is just there to ensure they remember exactly what I was doing to them.
You don't mean to be homophobic when you say faggot, but the gay dude who got the shit beaten out of him in school and had to go through hell growing up and was constantly called faggot .. well, he needs to realize that words have different meanings? How about, instead, you realize that words don't exist in a vacuum. You don't get to make up what words mean, despite what people in this thread tell you. Rape and faggot have long histories and although words do change over time, these two words have not lost any of their more terrible meanings.
i think the main problem in this whole thread is missing empathy
On August 14 2010 05:03 Megalisk wrote: inb4 kids agree with nony solely because he is nony without actually reading the thread
you read the thread. it's full of bizarre hypothetical defenses and chest-thumping selfishness. "I won't change my vocabulary if it hurts someone! THAT'S FREEDOM BABY!"
Ok I'm sorry, I'll stop using rape and only stick to the norm like "kill". Oh wait whats that? Thousands of more people are killed everyday than raped. I guess I cant use that either because its offensive. Those zealots got "snugglepuffed" by those vultures. Now thats more like it!~
lol indeed
yeah because the 'norms' reduce your degree of articulation into words of complete semantic irrelevance like "snugglepuff"
Best watch out homie or I'll have to snugglepuff u.
Be my guest, ill dragonite you to into submission
I once owned a dragonite, but hes gone now . Please change your post I find it offensive .
I'm tempted to just say it's run its course and lock it but maybe some more discussion could be had. Stupid posts will be responded to with penalties though. Consider yourself warned.
For the record I made a post after that before this warning was out. And I stopped myself from responding to chobopeons latest post knowing I would surely get banned. I guess I'm done trawling around. Good day to you sir.
You seem to miss the fact that many users in this thread have indicated that they don't think it's a big deal and that the impetus should be on the victims to get over it.
So I was making the point that that is incorrect. And that we should not put the blame on the victim in any way. We should not assign guilt to a victim for being hurt by the word. That is not trolling, and it's not really a straw man either. :/
Actually, it is a straw man. You are indicating that people who disagree with you believe that rape is the victim's fault. This is the definition of a straw man.
I guess option b was the wrong answer.
Still not a troll because a troll INTENTIONALLY strawmans when it's obvious the OP just had a poor argument.
I only agree that people shouldn't use the word 'rape' in game commentaries. In that situation, it's more of an issue of appearing professional.
Everything else however is unlikely to happen. People certainly aren't going to stop saying rape unless the word somehow goes out of style on its own. It's pretty much part of the gamer vocabulary now, and although it can offend, it certainly won't go away by a simple post.
On August 14 2010 05:03 HeavOnEarth wrote: If i said rape in front of a rape victim and they broke down in tears, i wouldn't change my vocabulary or ideals or values or w/e the shit u guys are sprouting in here. I would just call a therapist and get her/him(?) some help. Dodeedo
Honestly, If you get offended just by people saying a word then you must be one angry person. Ever heard of ignoring people? It is America and people can say anything they damn well please and that includes saying you raped some faggots in starcraft.
On August 14 2010 05:19 SpicyCrab wrote: I am not telling you not to do anything. I am asking you to be more understanding of the effect that your words can have.
In the outside world this would be a very reasonable and normal point to make but I can see that within this community it is sacrilege...
Apparently the freedom to say "rape" is a sacred institution and above questioning. Much like the Abrahamic 'god' so many people are so touchy about.
EPT
. Please change your post I find it offensive 
