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On August 14 2010 05:22 Myles wrote:
Whatever happened to sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me?
I'm not saying that people shouldn't empathize and be considerate, but people in general seem way too quick to get offended by what other people say.
I think you missed the point about offending people who have actually been raped.
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It is horrifying for one person to kill another.
It is horrifying for one person to own another.
it is horrifying for one person to rape another.
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On August 14 2010 05:27 DaCruise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 05:19 KwarK wrote:Okay, this thread has very rapidly turned to shit. People spamming ludicrous examples and posts like this. On August 14 2010 05:15 Megalisk wrote:On August 14 2010 05:14 FireBlast! wrote:On August 14 2010 05:13 Megalisk wrote:On August 14 2010 05:12 FireBlast! wrote:On August 14 2010 05:11 EleanorRIgby wrote:On August 14 2010 05:09 Megalisk wrote:On August 14 2010 05:06 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:03 Megalisk wrote:
inb4 kids agree with nony solely because he is nony without actually reading the thread you read the thread. it's full of bizarre hypothetical defenses and chest-thumping selfishness. "I won't change my vocabulary if it hurts someone! THAT'S FREEDOM BABY!" Ok I'm sorry, I'll stop using rape and only stick to the norm like "kill". Oh wait whats that? Thousands of more people are killed everyday than raped. I guess I cant use that either because its offensive. Those zealots got "snugglepuffed" by those vultures. Now thats more like it!~ lol indeed yeah because the 'norms' reduce your degree of articulation into words of complete semantic irrelevance like "snugglepuff" Best watch out homie or I'll have to snugglepuff u. Be my guest, ill dragonite you to into submission I once owned a dragonite, but hes gone now  . Please change your post I find it offensive . I'm tempted to just say it's run its course and lock it but maybe some more discussion could be had. Stupid posts will be responded to with penalties though. Consider yourself warned. I agree. Plz lock this lame-ass thread before the ignorant and narrowminded wins another victory against the freedom of speech and freedom in generel.
'Please lock this thread before the guys I disagree with win internets over the noble and right group I'm a part of.'
Who's narrowminded?
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On August 14 2010 05:16 Railxp wrote:
ok cool lets shift over to "LOL YOU GOT HOLOCAUSTED," since the demographic that is offended by that is decreasing per day.
more seriously though, i think the use of "rape" in videogame domination context actually contains a bit of sympathy for the victim? or maybe this is just in my head?
That isn't the same. Rape is a general word, holocaust isn't. Using the word holocaust is like using Tiananmen square in a sentence.
''Lolz, those zealots got Tiananmen squared out there!''
Personally I don't care about the use of the word at all. I can't imagine what it is like being raped, but I cant imagine myself either being offended by the word rape being thrown around in different context casually, had I been raped.
When I was a kid, I got my ass kicked by some elder kids. It was a painful and an agonizing experience for me. I felt totally powerless when these elderly kids kicked me around causing me to bleed from my mouth and nose.
If someone says ''TLO is up for an ass kicking'' should I be offended because that set of words might trigger some type of bad memories? No. Should I be offended to any set of words or sentences that imply physical violence? No, that would be ridicolous. I know, rape is usually alot worse then this, but my point imo still stands.
Should a victim of 9/11 be offended by the word Muslim because it might trigger bad memories?
Rape is a horrible thing, but imo this is going to the side of oversensitivity
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On August 14 2010 05:27 speedphlux wrote:
We ARE a gaming community first of all. What sort of language we've developed is OUR problem. Established forms, rules and regulations doesn't quite apply in here.
Erm, why wouldnt they? Look around you? You're on TL.net, not a youtube comments page.
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On August 14 2010 04:36 SpicyCrab wrote:
I really am not full of myself. I am just passionate on this issue and I am confident that I am right.
Some of you seem very confident that you are "correct" that rape "should be used" or perhaps that it's "not a big deal to use it"
You are wrong. Sorry.
The very unlikely hypothetical that talking about "murder" is going to offend a murder victim is not even remotely analagous to the very likely and entirely non-hypothetical notion that trivializing the word "rape" by throwing it around constantly could offend or hurt a rape victim.
... "not a big deal to use it" is completely subjective, you can't say "you are wrong." to that...
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United States43597 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:23 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 05:06 KwarK wrote:On August 14 2010 05:01 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
I agree with the OP but I'm losing my will to provide good arguments for my opinions because they hardly ever make a difference amongst this crowd. I suppose most gamers have a strong enough combination of feebleness and selfishness that improving their vocabulary for this cause is an insurmountable task. But they feel a bit of guilt so they must repel it with embarrassingly stupid rationalizations and that's the purpose this thread now seems to serve. It's far more selfish for someone to ask me to censor myself so they cannot be offended by their own ignorance than it is for me to speak freely and risk them hurting themselves. As I said on the first page, I don't use the word, but I will always object whenever anyone demands censorship to avoid their own issues, be it religious, scientific or emotional. You grossly misunderstand what is happening to a rape victim when they hear the word 'rape'. Offended by their own ignorance? You have a very poor understanding of the human condition if your best description of that phenomenon is "the victim is being offended by their own ignorance". From an intellectual perspective, I think you would recognize that a language that has certain words with the power to provoke powerful emotions is superior to a language that does not have such words. If 'rape' was used only to describe the sexual act, and if every time it was used, extreme care was exercised so that anyone hearing it would have an intimate understanding of what rape is, then 'rape' could be a very powerful word. When people are desensitized to the word because they have a poor understanding of its meaning (knowing a few lines from the dictionary is not truly knowing the meaning) and because the word takes on other meanings and is used in other situations, especially light-hearted and harmless situations, then the language is robbed of a unique and powerful word. Would you censor yourself to make your language better? It would go against your principle but perhaps this would be a case where you are capable of understanding the merit.
If they mistakenly believe that when a gamer says rape then he means something comparable to what happened to them then it is their own ignorance that is offending them. If on the other hand it's simply the word association then that's unfortunate but also probably the least of their worries. Places, people, sounds, smells etc will also all be associated with the incident and will also remind them of it. Rape is a terrible thing and I don't expect people to just ignore it. However nor will they be happily going along with their lives until someone says rape near them and brings it all back. They have to deal with it each and every day and it's only after they themselves manage to put it behind them that it'll be resolved. It's not their fault, it's the fault of the rapist. But unfortunately it is their problem.
From an intellectual perspective powerful words always suffer degeneration as people seek to draw on that power to make points. Genocide is a particularly good example of this as it has a very strict specific definition which is almost always ignored when bashing particular nations or policies. Rape is too far gone, it's had other meanings for hundreds of years, but we may yet save genocide.
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The amount I'm offended by the word 'rape' is zero. If this was about the words 'gay' or 'faggot', or any other derogatory term referring to homosexuality, I would be much more open.
Rape victims are not being oppressed by society like homosexuals are, so let's deal with the bigger issues first, eh?
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On August 14 2010 05:29 FireBlast! wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 05:27 speedphlux wrote:
We ARE a gaming community first of all. What sort of language we've developed is OUR problem. Established forms, rules and regulations doesn't quite apply in here.
Erm, why wouldnt they? Look around you? You're on TL.net, not a youtube comments page.
Well, if our game commentators use the word "rape" to describe a total domination over someone, then ... what's the big deal ? I haven't seen Day9 getting kicked out of here for claiming that he got raped repeatedly by ... his own brother.
Therefor - our world, our rules. Some outside stuff applies, some doesn't.
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I expect more from TL about this kind of thing.
OP has a good point about the word "raped" used as a colloquialism for "completely defeated." It trivializes the severity of rape, is insensitive to those who have been sexually abused, and just holds both a terrible denotation and connotation. One of the biggest problems gamers face is the desire to be taken seriously, but how seriously could you take a community of people who equates defeating somebody in a game to physically raping them?
A few people have taken the liberty of linguistically analyzing the situation. I'll ask them not to now, as their arguments are pretty terrible. Let's examine them.
Argument One:
Words are just combinations of letters. They are harmless--it is the intended meaning which scars.
This argument makes the mistake of implying that people individually assign meanings to words. For obvious reasons, this is not true. Language communities assign both denotative and connotative meanings to words. Racial slurs have their meanings due to historical and sociolinguistic factors; the same holds true to words like "rape." All native speakers of English should understand that it is a word associated with a particularly taboo image, and should not be thrown around irresponsibly.
Argument Two:
"Rape" as in "defeat" does not necessarily have the same meaning as "sexually abuse." They are two separate lexical items. Just look at "beat" and "beat."
Another incorrect assumption.
The etymology of "beat" shows that the two meanings evolved independently. They simply happen to be homophones. "Beat," as in "strike," was the earliest known form of the word. "Beat," as in "defeat," actually evolved from a later form of "beat" which meant "escape" or "legally avoid."
"Rape" is a completely different story. It obviously derived from the word "sexually abuse" due to the mental trauma and complete helplessness of the victim.
Argument Three:
People choose to be offended!
No, they don't. While some people do go out of their way to complain about certain things, our language is ingrained in our culture and our brain. It is a living part of us and its items necessarily incite emotional response. Calling an obese person a "fat sack of shit" is obviously going to hurt his or feelings, just as the word "rape" can cause emotional damage.
All languages in all cultures have taboo lexical items with communities who avoid them. This alone shows why telling people to just "chill out" is ridiculous.
OP has a good point. People's failure to understand it is what created this huge thread.
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On August 14 2010 05:30 synapse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 04:36 SpicyCrab wrote:
I really am not full of myself. I am just passionate on this issue and I am confident that I am right.
Some of you seem very confident that you are "correct" that rape "should be used" or perhaps that it's "not a big deal to use it"
You are wrong. Sorry.
The very unlikely hypothetical that talking about "murder" is going to offend a murder victim is not even remotely analagous to the very likely and entirely non-hypothetical notion that trivializing the word "rape" by throwing it around constantly could offend or hurt a rape victim. ... "not a big deal to use it" is completely subjective, you can't say "you are wrong." to that...
It is a big deal to the victims. :/
Rape is something which is very often not taken very seriously. Victims have their stories denied or are told that they're probably lying or that they "misunderstood". When victims are so used to seeing their experiences trivialized it must be very painful for them to see people using those words and throwing them around like it isn't a big deal.
To them it is a big deal, it is not so unreasonable to ask people to think about that in the course of their daily discussions.
I know that my arguments were not entirely perfect; but this is something I feel strongly about so maybe my emotions got the best of me.
I can see that most of TL is completely unresponsive, and that disappoints me. However, I can also tell that I have reached at least a couple people. So in the end I am happy for that.
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Just posting to say I agree with the OP. The word is thrown around so much I've had to make a conscious effort not to use it in the past.
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This reminds me of a friend back in high school who felt confident about an exam he just took, wrote "RAPED" in big letters on the back of the exam sheet, and ended up failing the exam (although he originally had like a 98 or something). Yeah, it was probably an inappropriate thing to do, but failing his exam was just overkill.
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United States5162 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:27 Cham wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 05:22 Myles wrote:
Whatever happened to sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me?
I'm not saying that people shouldn't empathize and be considerate, but people in general seem way too quick to get offended by what other people say. I think you missed the point about offending people who have actually been raped.
Yes, but what is so much more offesive about the word rape? Words are used all the time that convey meanings which are offensive to certain people. Are we picking and choosing which are acceptable and which are not? Is any offensive word out of bounds, or only certain ones?
I get that rape is horrible thing, but so is murder and war. Should we stop saying I killed or destroyed someone?
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I agree with the fag part. Gamers using fag and faggot is extremely immature. Raping faggots is just not cool. I am just not down with the word.
Why can't you just say pwning noobs? And not offend anyone except who you actually are trying to offend (dem noobs)
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On August 14 2010 05:34 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 05:27 Cham wrote:On August 14 2010 05:22 Myles wrote:
Whatever happened to sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me?
I'm not saying that people shouldn't empathize and be considerate, but people in general seem way too quick to get offended by what other people say. I think you missed the point about offending people who have actually been raped. Yes, but why are they offended because of the word? Words are used all the time that convey meanings which are offensive to certain people. Are we picking and choosing which are acceptable and which are not? Is any offensive word out of bounds, or only certain ones? I get that rape is horrible thing, but so is murder and war. Should we stop saying I killed or destroyed someone?
Well, if the dead were around to be offended by the word "killed", perhaps.
But they're not.
Many rape victims are.
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On August 14 2010 05:33 SpicyCrab wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 05:30 synapse wrote:On August 14 2010 04:36 SpicyCrab wrote:
I really am not full of myself. I am just passionate on this issue and I am confident that I am right.
Some of you seem very confident that you are "correct" that rape "should be used" or perhaps that it's "not a big deal to use it"
You are wrong. Sorry.
The very unlikely hypothetical that talking about "murder" is going to offend a murder victim is not even remotely analagous to the very likely and entirely non-hypothetical notion that trivializing the word "rape" by throwing it around constantly could offend or hurt a rape victim. ... "not a big deal to use it" is completely subjective, you can't say "you are wrong." to that... It is a big deal to the victims. :/
How did they feel about it before they got raped
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On August 14 2010 05:32 Fontong wrote:
The amount I'm offended by the word 'rape' is zero. If this was about the words 'gay' or 'faggot', or any other derogatory term referring to homosexuality, I would be much more open.
Rape victims are not being oppressed by society like homosexuals are, so let's deal with the bigger issues first, eh?
I'm not about to play 'who is worse off' but to say that homosexuals have a monopoly on negative treatment by society is ludicrous.
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United States5162 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:36 neohero9 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 05:34 Myles wrote:On August 14 2010 05:27 Cham wrote:On August 14 2010 05:22 Myles wrote:
Whatever happened to sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me?
I'm not saying that people shouldn't empathize and be considerate, but people in general seem way too quick to get offended by what other people say. I think you missed the point about offending people who have actually been raped. Yes, but why are they offended because of the word? Words are used all the time that convey meanings which are offensive to certain people. Are we picking and choosing which are acceptable and which are not? Is any offensive word out of bounds, or only certain ones? I get that rape is horrible thing, but so is murder and war. Should we stop saying I killed or destroyed someone? Well, if the dead were around to be offended by the word "killed", perhaps. But they're not. Many rape victims are.
The dead people aren't around, but thier family probably is. This whole issue is a huge double standard on word use.
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On August 14 2010 05:28 Severedevil wrote:
It is horrifying for one person to kill another.
It is horrifying for one person to own another.
it is horrifying for one person to rape another.
Listen, there's a big difference between the word kill and rape.
In any circumstances, a rape is never the good thing to do. It is an horrifying act that should theoretically never be allowed. On the other hand killing and owning people can in some cases be the norm (on a battle field for instance).
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EPT
