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On August 14 2010 05:41 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:Show nested quote +Just pisses me off whenever people say 'Expected more from TL' in this thread. You apparently haven't been on TL for long... It was a way of saying "I didn't expect much, but I didn't expect you guys to be this clueless." Plus, TL has been one of the better communities I've visited in terms of maturity. Possibly the best. Maybe I just visit horrible communities.
I don't think it's fair to call TL clueless when a few posters seem clueless. I'd prefer you calling "them" clueless instead of calling "TL" clueless, and not everyone is going to be damned perfect. But you might've already meant it this way, I just wanted to post this to the other people that might look down on TL just because some posters make TL seem a certain way. Although they might seem to represent TL, they are just normal posters.
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On August 14 2010 05:43 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 05:40 neohero9 wrote:On August 14 2010 05:37 Myles wrote:On August 14 2010 05:36 neohero9 wrote:On August 14 2010 05:34 Myles wrote:On August 14 2010 05:27 Cham wrote:On August 14 2010 05:22 Myles wrote:
Whatever happened to sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me?
I'm not saying that people shouldn't empathize and be considerate, but people in general seem way too quick to get offended by what other people say. I think you missed the point about offending people who have actually been raped. Yes, but why are they offended because of the word? Words are used all the time that convey meanings which are offensive to certain people. Are we picking and choosing which are acceptable and which are not? Is any offensive word out of bounds, or only certain ones? I get that rape is horrible thing, but so is murder and war. Should we stop saying I killed or destroyed someone? Well, if the dead were around to be offended by the word "killed", perhaps. But they're not. Many rape victims are. The dead people are around, but thier family is. This whole issue is a huge double standard on word use. No. I'm engaged to someone who has been raped. I'm not offended by the word 'rape' as she is, by orders of magnitude. More sensitive to it, yes, but I don't break down at its mention. The comparison is not fitting. The concepts of "kill" and "rape" are completely different, too. Read my post on pg3, and compare that to the concept of "kill". There are huge differences. The comparision is fitting, You're making an arbitrrary determination that the word rape is more offensive than other words because you have a personal stake in the matter. That's why its a double standard.
You're missing my point.
Even before I knew a girl who had been raped, I didn't use that word, because it's a dick thing to do. Your assumption about my personal stake is incorrect.
The point I'm making is that the victim is still around to be affected by the word "rape", making it much worse than "kill", because the only person with an actual personal stake in the act of "killing" is DEAD.
The families and friends of both types of victims can be offended, but their pain is much less than that of the victim. The difference, again, is that one is DEAD and the other is grossly scarred.
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Sticks and stones etc...
Stop being a victim to a word, freedom to say whatever you want is usually what you americans treasure above all.
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They (Edit: SVU) are not trivializing the issue by applying the use of the word to a video game.
They are, if any thing, doing good by pointing out the erroneous beliefs that our society has about rape and how tragic and sad many victims experiences are.
I would imagine that most rape victims support what SVU does. I would also imagine that most rape victims would be horrified or at the very least disgusted by what TL does.
Sound reasonable?
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On August 14 2010 05:50 HeIios wrote:
Sticks and stones etc...
Stop being a victim to a word, freedom to say whatever you want is usually what you americans treasure above all.
Amen.
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I can personally say that I rarely use words like this, but I still think this entire topic is a bit wonky... Let people say what they want, it is not the actual meaning of the word that has any significance, its what they are meaning by saying it. As in this example it means to have beaten someone in some way, it has no sexual connection whatsoever
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So when someone says "those hellions raped my zerglings in the ass" that has no sexual connotation whatsoever and has nothing to do with the actual act of rape?
I believe that in virtually 100% of instances this is how the word is used and meant. And I also believe that any one taking an honest look at the use of the word would draw the very same conclusion. If people are going to disagree than that is fine but does it have to be under such false pretenses?
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On August 14 2010 05:46 choboPEon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 05:43 ShinyGerbil wrote:
No, I won't stop saying rape. I won't say "are you retarded" in front of my disabled friends, I won't say "that faggot dt dropped me" in front of my gay friends, I won't say "stupid nigger" in front of my black friends, and I won't say "damn i got jewed" in front of my jewish friends. And I probably won't say rape in front of you OP, because you are sensitive about it (regardless of whether you are a victim or not). But that gives me no reason to stop saying it in general. This is the ideal trade off. This is a surprisingly calm and articulate way to imply that, when your black friends aren't around, you use the word nigger regularly. Did I misinterpret that?
Potentially. Regardless of how regularly I use the word, I try not to make people feel bad, but I also try not to go out of my way to hold things back. Balance.
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On August 14 2010 05:50 SpicyCrab wrote:
They (Edit: SVU) are not trivializing the issue by applying the use of the word to a video game.
They are, if any thing, doing good by pointing out the erroneous beliefs that our society has about rape and how tragic and sad many victims experiences are.
I would imagine that most rape victims support what SVU does. I would also imagine that most rape victims would be horrified or at the very least disgusted by what TL does.
Sound reasonable?
Whoa whoa whoa. now you're going in circles. What's the problem here?
Trivializing a word?
- You can't trivialize a word by using it properly.
Offending rape victims?
-see this
Horrific violence, dramatic reenactments, imperfect justice.... That certainly wouldn't give rise to more horrible memories than some nerd shouting RAPPPPPED at the top of his lungs when a probe kills an SCV.
But hey, they are condemning it.
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United States44038 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:52 SpicyCrab wrote:
So when someone says "those hellions raped my zerglings in the ass" that has no sexual connotation whatsoever and has nothing to do with the actual act of rape?
I believe that in virtually 100% of instances this is how the word is used and meant.
That is an example of hyperbole. The hellions are not actually raping zerglings in the ass. They are simply killing zerglings in a game. Anyone at all familiar with Starcraft will understand that that is hyperbole.
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On August 14 2010 05:49 neohero9 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 05:43 Myles wrote:On August 14 2010 05:40 neohero9 wrote:On August 14 2010 05:37 Myles wrote:On August 14 2010 05:36 neohero9 wrote:On August 14 2010 05:34 Myles wrote:On August 14 2010 05:27 Cham wrote:On August 14 2010 05:22 Myles wrote:
Whatever happened to sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me?
I'm not saying that people shouldn't empathize and be considerate, but people in general seem way too quick to get offended by what other people say. I think you missed the point about offending people who have actually been raped. Yes, but why are they offended because of the word? Words are used all the time that convey meanings which are offensive to certain people. Are we picking and choosing which are acceptable and which are not? Is any offensive word out of bounds, or only certain ones? I get that rape is horrible thing, but so is murder and war. Should we stop saying I killed or destroyed someone? Well, if the dead were around to be offended by the word "killed", perhaps. But they're not. Many rape victims are. The dead people are around, but thier family is. This whole issue is a huge double standard on word use. No. I'm engaged to someone who has been raped. I'm not offended by the word 'rape' as she is, by orders of magnitude. More sensitive to it, yes, but I don't break down at its mention. The comparison is not fitting. The concepts of "kill" and "rape" are completely different, too. Read my post on pg3, and compare that to the concept of "kill". There are huge differences. The comparision is fitting, You're making an arbitrrary determination that the word rape is more offensive than other words because you have a personal stake in the matter. That's why its a double standard. You're missing my point. Even before I knew a girl who had been raped, I didn't use that word, because it's a dick thing to do. Your assumption about my personal stake is incorrect. The point I'm making is that the victim is still around to be affected by the word "rape", making it much worse than "kill", because the only person with an actual personal stake in the act of "killing" is DEAD. The families and friends of both types of victims can be offended, but their pain is much less than that of the victim. The difference, again, is that one is DEAD and the other is grossly scarred.
I feel as if someone who watched his entire family be murderd in front of him would feel much more pain than a person who was raped, especially depending on circumstance. Remember, you're raping someone if you have sex with them drunk, according to law. I am so sick of groups coming in and preaching out our school on how so many of us are raping girls when we have sex with drunk women. And I'm not talking blacked out, just drunk.
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That is an example of hyperbole. The hellions are not actually raping zerglings in the ass. They are simply killing zerglings in a game.
Then why not simply say that...?
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This is how the outside world sees you.
http://www.royalpurplenews.com/think-before-you-say-the-word-rape-1.1262486
On August 14 2010 05:55 KwarK wrote:
That is an example of hyperbole. The hellions are not actually raping zerglings in the ass. They are simply killing zerglings in a game. Anyone at all familiar with Starcraft will understand that that is hyperbole.
And you do not believe that that use of the word has a direct relation to the actual real world act that is is... directly referring to?
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On August 14 2010 05:53 ShinyGerbil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 05:46 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:43 ShinyGerbil wrote:
No, I won't stop saying rape. I won't say "are you retarded" in front of my disabled friends, I won't say "that faggot dt dropped me" in front of my gay friends, I won't say "stupid nigger" in front of my black friends, and I won't say "damn i got jewed" in front of my jewish friends. And I probably won't say rape in front of you OP, because you are sensitive about it (regardless of whether you are a victim or not). But that gives me no reason to stop saying it in general. This is the ideal trade off. This is a surprisingly calm and articulate way to imply that, when your black friends aren't around, you use the word nigger regularly. Did I misinterpret that? Potentially. Regardless of how regularly I use the word, I try not to make people feel bad, but I also try not to go out of my way to hold things back. Balance.
I'll give you credit for at least honest about your use of the words.
I'd say you probably shouldn't be tossing 'nigger' around but I don't want to start another 20 page shitstorm.
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On August 14 2010 05:52 SpicyCrab wrote:
So when someone says "those hellions raped my zerglings in the ass" that has no sexual connotation whatsoever and has nothing to do with the actual act of rape?
just one question, do zerglings actually have asses? and i'm not talking about the ass-end...
i honestly have no idea...
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On August 14 2010 04:48 SpicyCrab wrote:
For all of the people who insist that this is not a big deal, I implore you to go to a real rape victim and explain to them why it's a really cool word to use and trivialize and why they should just get over it. The impetus should be on them to "Get over it" right? I mean it's their fault after all.
I can only express intense disappointment at the complete lack of maturity and understanding from this community and what makes me even more sad is that I know that TL is one of the most mature gaming communities that exists; I can only imagine what the response would be on a normal gaming forum.
I am quite honestly tired of you continuously spouting this bullshit. Post after post you say the same thing: I'm immature because I can't understand how a rape victim feels, and I won't stop using a word that might offend them. Who the hell are you to tell me this? I worked as a paralegal for years, and I guarantee you that unless you're a rape victim counselor, I have, seen, talked with, interacted with, been in a court room with, read statements from, seen tapes, and been around more rape victims than you will ever be over your entire life. I see how it has affected them, and I see how they've reacted when they had to recount what happened to them over and over. I understand perfectly clear what kind of emotional damage these people (yes people, because not only women are raped) have because of the action associated with the term rape and how it interacted negatively in their life.
Will that stop me from every using the word? Hell no. Do I completely understand where you're coming from? Yes, but you have to understand that no matter what I do, no matter what I say, at some point, someone will be offended. What should I do at that point? Live my life trying to never offend someone? Go off and live alone in the woods so that the chance I offend someone will never come up? Or should I just continue living my life, and if I offend someone, either apologize to them, or just not care?
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On August 14 2010 05:32 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
I expect more from TL about this kind of thing.
OP has a good point about the word "raped" used as a colloquialism for "completely defeated." It trivializes the severity of rape, is insensitive to those who have been sexually abused, and just holds both a terrible denotation and connotation. One of the biggest problems gamers face is the desire to be taken seriously, but how seriously could you take a community of people who equates defeating somebody in a game to physically raping them?
A few people have taken the liberty of linguistically analyzing the situation. I'll ask them not to now, as their arguments are pretty terrible. Let's examine them.
Argument One:
Words are just combinations of letters. They are harmless--it is the intended meaning which scars.
This argument makes the mistake of implying that people individually assign meanings to words. For obvious reasons, this is not true. Language communities assign both denotative and connotative meanings to words. Racial slurs have their meanings due to historical and sociolinguistic factors; the same holds true to words like "rape." All native speakers of English should understand that it is a word associated with a particularly taboo image, and should not be thrown around irresponsibly.
Argument Two:
"Rape" as in "defeat" does not necessarily have the same meaning as "sexually abuse." They are two separate lexical items. Just look at "beat" and "beat."
Another incorrect assumption.
The etymology of "beat" shows that the two meanings evolved independently. They simply happen to be homophones. "Beat," as in "strike," was the earliest known form of the word. "Beat," as in "defeat," actually evolved from a later form of "beat" which meant "escape" or "legally avoid."
"Rape" is a completely different story. It obviously derived from the word "sexually abuse" due to the mental trauma and complete helplessness of the victim.
Argument Three:
People choose to be offended!
No, they don't. While some people do go out of their way to complain about certain things, our language is ingrained in our culture and our brain. It is a living part of us and its items necessarily incite emotional response. Calling an obese person a "fat sack of shit" is obviously going to hurt his or feelings, just as the word "rape" can cause emotional damage.
All languages in all cultures have taboo lexical items with communities who avoid them. This alone shows why telling people to just "chill out" is ridiculous.
OP has a good point. People's failure to understand it is what created this huge thread.
Quoting myself and hoping that more than two people will read it this time.
User was warned for this post
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On August 14 2010 05:56 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 05:49 neohero9 wrote:On August 14 2010 05:43 Myles wrote:On August 14 2010 05:40 neohero9 wrote:On August 14 2010 05:37 Myles wrote:On August 14 2010 05:36 neohero9 wrote:On August 14 2010 05:34 Myles wrote:On August 14 2010 05:27 Cham wrote:On August 14 2010 05:22 Myles wrote:
Whatever happened to sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me?
I'm not saying that people shouldn't empathize and be considerate, but people in general seem way too quick to get offended by what other people say. I think you missed the point about offending people who have actually been raped. Yes, but why are they offended because of the word? Words are used all the time that convey meanings which are offensive to certain people. Are we picking and choosing which are acceptable and which are not? Is any offensive word out of bounds, or only certain ones? I get that rape is horrible thing, but so is murder and war. Should we stop saying I killed or destroyed someone? Well, if the dead were around to be offended by the word "killed", perhaps. But they're not. Many rape victims are. The dead people are around, but thier family is. This whole issue is a huge double standard on word use. No. I'm engaged to someone who has been raped. I'm not offended by the word 'rape' as she is, by orders of magnitude. More sensitive to it, yes, but I don't break down at its mention. The comparison is not fitting. The concepts of "kill" and "rape" are completely different, too. Read my post on pg3, and compare that to the concept of "kill". There are huge differences. The comparision is fitting, You're making an arbitrrary determination that the word rape is more offensive than other words because you have a personal stake in the matter. That's why its a double standard. You're missing my point. Even before I knew a girl who had been raped, I didn't use that word, because it's a dick thing to do. Your assumption about my personal stake is incorrect. The point I'm making is that the victim is still around to be affected by the word "rape", making it much worse than "kill", because the only person with an actual personal stake in the act of "killing" is DEAD. The families and friends of both types of victims can be offended, but their pain is much less than that of the victim. The difference, again, is that one is DEAD and the other is grossly scarred. I feel as if someone who watched his entire family be murderd in front of him would feel much more pain than a person who was raped, especially depending on circumstance. Remember, you're raping someone if you have sex with them drunk, according to law. I am so sick of groups coming in and preaching out our school on how so many of us are raping girls when we have sex with drunk women. And I'm not talking blacked out, just drunk.
Well it's easy to feel that way when you're comparing someone who saw their entire family murdered in front of them (extreme circumstance), and a drunk girl who's crying 'rape' at someone she regrets sleeping with (minor circumstance).
Here, I'll play your version in reverse:
I feel as if someone who watched their entire family be raped in front of them (extreme circumstance) would feel much more than a person who was killed. And I don't mean like tortured and killed, but like, lethal injection by the state (minor circumstance).
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Okay, I don't see this going anywhere else. Just saying.
Superfluous.
I was going to write more, but you know what? I think I'll just stay out of this one until it runs it's course.
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Are you retarded? That's a student newspaper article most likely published in the editorial section. It has an under-graduate class of around 1,100.
EDIT: Note retarded was used in italics not so much as to emphasize stupidity, but because I felt it appropriate in this thread. It's simply how words are used.
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EPT
