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People need to understand that words have a straight-forward literal definition and another metaphorical definition that the person attaches to the word themselves. You can't ban the use of a word just because your attachment to the word is different from another person's. It's like banning yo-mama jokes because somewhere out there, someone might have lost their mother and were emotionally scarred by it. It 'tarded.
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On August 14 2010 06:11 HeIios wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 06:06 keV. wrote:On August 14 2010 06:00 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:59 DaCruise wrote:On August 14 2010 05:56 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:53 ShinyGerbil wrote:On August 14 2010 05:46 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:43 ShinyGerbil wrote:
No, I won't stop saying rape. I won't say "are you retarded" in front of my disabled friends, I won't say "that faggot dt dropped me" in front of my gay friends, I won't say "stupid nigger" in front of my black friends, and I won't say "damn i got jewed" in front of my jewish friends. And I probably won't say rape in front of you OP, because you are sensitive about it (regardless of whether you are a victim or not). But that gives me no reason to stop saying it in general. This is the ideal trade off. This is a surprisingly calm and articulate way to imply that, when your black friends aren't around, you use the word nigger regularly. Did I misinterpret that? Potentially. Regardless of how regularly I use the word, I try not to make people feel bad, but I also try not to go out of my way to hold things back. Balance. I'll give you credit for at least honest about your use of the words. Words in themselves are harmless. Its the way they are told, and the situation they are told in that matters. You don't get to remove the meaning and history of the word nigger just because you want to. Sorry. You don't get to remove the meaning and history of the word rape just because you want to. Sorry. Read this: Show nested quote +rape (v.) Look up rape at Dictionary.com
late 14c., "seize prey, take by force," from Anglo-Fr. raper "to seize, abduct," a legal term, probably from L. rapere "seize, carry off by force, abduct" (see rapid). Latin rapere was used for "sexual violation," but only very rarely; the usual Latin word being stuprum, lit. "disgrace." Sense of "sexual violation or ravishing of a woman" first recorded in English as a noun, late 15c. (the noun sense of "taking anything -- including a woman -- away by force" is from c.1400). The verb in this sense is from 1570s. Related: Raped; raping. Uncertain connection to Low Ger. and Du. rapen in the same sense. Rapist is from 1883. So as you can see, rape means to take something by force.
Read this:
"I was raped."
So as you can see, that person's body was taken by force.
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On August 14 2010 06:11 HeIios wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 06:06 keV. wrote:On August 14 2010 06:00 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:59 DaCruise wrote:On August 14 2010 05:56 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:53 ShinyGerbil wrote:On August 14 2010 05:46 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:43 ShinyGerbil wrote:
No, I won't stop saying rape. I won't say "are you retarded" in front of my disabled friends, I won't say "that faggot dt dropped me" in front of my gay friends, I won't say "stupid nigger" in front of my black friends, and I won't say "damn i got jewed" in front of my jewish friends. And I probably won't say rape in front of you OP, because you are sensitive about it (regardless of whether you are a victim or not). But that gives me no reason to stop saying it in general. This is the ideal trade off. This is a surprisingly calm and articulate way to imply that, when your black friends aren't around, you use the word nigger regularly. Did I misinterpret that? Potentially. Regardless of how regularly I use the word, I try not to make people feel bad, but I also try not to go out of my way to hold things back. Balance. I'll give you credit for at least honest about your use of the words. Words in themselves are harmless. Its the way they are told, and the situation they are told in that matters. You don't get to remove the meaning and history of the word nigger just because you want to. Sorry. You don't get to remove the meaning and history of the word rape just because you want to. Sorry. Read this: Show nested quote +rape (v.) Look up rape at Dictionary.com
late 14c., "seize prey, take by force," from Anglo-Fr. raper "to seize, abduct," a legal term, probably from L. rapere "seize, carry off by force, abduct" (see rapid). Latin rapere was used for "sexual violation," but only very rarely; the usual Latin word being stuprum, lit. "disgrace." Sense of "sexual violation or ravishing of a woman" first recorded in English as a noun, late 15c. (the noun sense of "taking anything -- including a woman -- away by force" is from c.1400). The verb in this sense is from 1570s. Related: Raped; raping. Uncertain connection to Low Ger. and Du. rapen in the same sense. Rapist is from 1883. So as you can see, rape means to take something by force. [edit] Not always sexual, is my point.
Yes, I'm agreeing with you... Rape originally meant to seize, or take by force. You can't change is definition to the most offensive one automatically.
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On August 14 2010 06:12 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 06:11 HeIios wrote:On August 14 2010 06:06 keV. wrote:On August 14 2010 06:00 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:59 DaCruise wrote:On August 14 2010 05:56 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:53 ShinyGerbil wrote:On August 14 2010 05:46 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:43 ShinyGerbil wrote:
No, I won't stop saying rape. I won't say "are you retarded" in front of my disabled friends, I won't say "that faggot dt dropped me" in front of my gay friends, I won't say "stupid nigger" in front of my black friends, and I won't say "damn i got jewed" in front of my jewish friends. And I probably won't say rape in front of you OP, because you are sensitive about it (regardless of whether you are a victim or not). But that gives me no reason to stop saying it in general. This is the ideal trade off. This is a surprisingly calm and articulate way to imply that, when your black friends aren't around, you use the word nigger regularly. Did I misinterpret that? Potentially. Regardless of how regularly I use the word, I try not to make people feel bad, but I also try not to go out of my way to hold things back. Balance. I'll give you credit for at least honest about your use of the words. Words in themselves are harmless. Its the way they are told, and the situation they are told in that matters. You don't get to remove the meaning and history of the word nigger just because you want to. Sorry. You don't get to remove the meaning and history of the word rape just because you want to. Sorry. Read this: rape (v.) Look up rape at Dictionary.com
late 14c., "seize prey, take by force," from Anglo-Fr. raper "to seize, abduct," a legal term, probably from L. rapere "seize, carry off by force, abduct" (see rapid). Latin rapere was used for "sexual violation," but only very rarely; the usual Latin word being stuprum, lit. "disgrace." Sense of "sexual violation or ravishing of a woman" first recorded in English as a noun, late 15c. (the noun sense of "taking anything -- including a woman -- away by force" is from c.1400). The verb in this sense is from 1570s. Related: Raped; raping. Uncertain connection to Low Ger. and Du. rapen in the same sense. Rapist is from 1883. So as you can see, rape means to take something by force. [edit] Not always sexual, is my point. Yes, I'm agreeing with you...
I meant to continue your conversation, I just thought it would fit in when we were talking about history fo words.
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I agree entirely with the OP. "Rape" can be an offensive word to /people/people who know people/people who think about people/ who have been raped or severely traumatized, including torture victims, domestic violence victims, et al.
Now, though, I'd like to share an equally important word(s) that should be thrown out of the vocabulary when speaking in most contexts. Please note I do not intend to offend anyone, nor am I implying that taking the word "rape" out of the language of gamer culture isn't important.
The word is "god." I am a spiritual person, and I believe in a One Supreme Being I'll call the Creator. However, if you're talking about "god," you should not use that word. You should use something like "creator" instead. The reason for this is that the word "god" implies a certain kind of ownership by a human or otherwise lesser being than the creator. If you think about your idea of "god," that is showing disrespect to the creator. You should instead think about THE creator, and not "your god." When you talk about pagan gods or the Christian god or the Muslim god, etc, the word "god" is used as a word that means "THEIR version of THE creator."
This implication of "ownership" of the creator, while convenient to use in vernacular, might be alarming to some of you non-atheists when you first recognize this possibility. I am currently trying to take the word "god" out of my vocabulary and replace it with "creator" or "the one eternal source" or something similar.
This is also the reason why I'm shaky on the whole "gay marriage" debate. Now, I support gay marriage in the legal sense, because I believe the more equal we are written into our laws the better, but you have to look at the very definition of "marriage" to understand that "gay marriage" is a paradox. The word "marriage" is a biblical term, and we all know what orthodox conservatives think about gay marriage. It's like saying "same-sex heterosexual spiritual union." The very word "marriage," due to it originating from the bible which is allegedly against gay marriage, discriminates against gays.
There are other words that have more meaning than you may like to give them, including "enormous," which, in addition to "very big," also means "wicked" or "evil." So if you see a holy angel one day and it is very big, do not call it "enormous," for you would be attributing more to it than you actually mean.
Sorry to ramble, but if you're spiritual/religious you may find that your life improves when you stop implying ownership of the very being that created you, the universe, and everything. Once, again, I'm not trying to offend people or spark debate. My major point is that there are words like this everywhere that have lost their full meaning because they are thrown around so carelessly in modern times.
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On August 14 2010 06:12 fly.stat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 06:11 HeIios wrote:On August 14 2010 06:06 keV. wrote:On August 14 2010 06:00 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:59 DaCruise wrote:On August 14 2010 05:56 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:53 ShinyGerbil wrote:On August 14 2010 05:46 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:43 ShinyGerbil wrote:
No, I won't stop saying rape. I won't say "are you retarded" in front of my disabled friends, I won't say "that faggot dt dropped me" in front of my gay friends, I won't say "stupid nigger" in front of my black friends, and I won't say "damn i got jewed" in front of my jewish friends. And I probably won't say rape in front of you OP, because you are sensitive about it (regardless of whether you are a victim or not). But that gives me no reason to stop saying it in general. This is the ideal trade off. This is a surprisingly calm and articulate way to imply that, when your black friends aren't around, you use the word nigger regularly. Did I misinterpret that? Potentially. Regardless of how regularly I use the word, I try not to make people feel bad, but I also try not to go out of my way to hold things back. Balance. I'll give you credit for at least honest about your use of the words. Words in themselves are harmless. Its the way they are told, and the situation they are told in that matters. You don't get to remove the meaning and history of the word nigger just because you want to. Sorry. You don't get to remove the meaning and history of the word rape just because you want to. Sorry. Read this: rape (v.) Look up rape at Dictionary.com
late 14c., "seize prey, take by force," from Anglo-Fr. raper "to seize, abduct," a legal term, probably from L. rapere "seize, carry off by force, abduct" (see rapid). Latin rapere was used for "sexual violation," but only very rarely; the usual Latin word being stuprum, lit. "disgrace." Sense of "sexual violation or ravishing of a woman" first recorded in English as a noun, late 15c. (the noun sense of "taking anything -- including a woman -- away by force" is from c.1400). The verb in this sense is from 1570s. Related: Raped; raping. Uncertain connection to Low Ger. and Du. rapen in the same sense. Rapist is from 1883. So as you can see, rape means to take something by force. Read this: "I was raped." So as you can see, that person's body was taken by force.
Read this:
"those zerglings are raping the hellions!"
Better put those Hellions in a councelling group.
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I specifically don't use "rape" online because its a pretty awkward word to use. Are you going to walk down the street discussing how you raped someone? What if someone overheard you? It's just not a pleasant word to have in your vocabulary.
I do agree it is completely overused online. What I find disturbing is how many non-english speakers use it. It seems to be one of the words they learn early, just because of how common it is online.
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Has anyone's stance on this issue changed as a result of this thread?
Has anyone even considered changing their stance?
If not, then I think the sides have been taken, and the arguments for and against have been presented, in various strengths and degrees of efficacy. The end is come.
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On August 14 2010 05:56 neohero9 wrote:Show nested quote +
That is an example of hyperbole. The hellions are not actually raping zerglings in the ass. They are simply killing zerglings in a game.
Then why not simply say that...?
people love sensationalism and emotionalism. hyperbole is the means to that end. you'll notice this happens in a fair amount of the time in day to day living if you keep an eye out for it.
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On August 14 2010 06:15 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 05:56 neohero9 wrote:
That is an example of hyperbole. The hellions are not actually raping zerglings in the ass. They are simply killing zerglings in a game.
Then why not simply say that...? people love sensationalism and emotionalism. hyperbole is the means to that end. you'll notice this happens in a fair amount of the time in day to day living if you keep an eye out for it.
And thus the sloppiness of our language is not only continued, but embraced and celebrated.
It's amazing how much smoother communication becomes when one is deliberate about the words they choose to use.
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On August 14 2010 06:09 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 14 2010 06:06 FireBlast! wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 06:04 FabledIntegral wrote:On August 14 2010 06:03 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 06:01 Fontong wrote:On August 14 2010 05:36 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:32 Fontong wrote:
The amount I'm offended by the word 'rape' is zero. If this was about the words 'gay' or 'faggot', or any other derogatory term referring to homosexuality, I would be much more open.
Rape victims are not being oppressed by society like homosexuals are, so let's deal with the bigger issues first, eh? I'm not about to play 'who is worse off' but to say that homosexuals have a monopoly on negative treatment by society is ludicrous. Good thing I didn't say that You did say that you can';t be bothered with rape victims because homosexuals have a much worse situation. Which is ridiculous. Not so much that he can't be bothered, but rather "there are bigger issues that need to be addressed first." wait. what. 1) what other bigger issues 2) who has the say on the prioritisation of these issues 3) what kind of bubble do you live in where rape is not a ubiquitous issue that needs perennial addressing? I'm fairly sure he said that homosexual slurs being used was far more offensive than words that could offend rape victims. He didn't say rape wasn't an issue but rather that there is a huge amount of homophobic language casually used that makes this single issue of the word rape look rather minor.
So would you say kwark that the use of homophobic language is an issue that needs to be addressed?
And if so you're saying it would require a certain amount of prominent, mainstream use of a word for it to become a sufficient enough political issue?
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On August 14 2010 06:15 HeIios wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 06:12 fly.stat wrote:On August 14 2010 06:11 HeIios wrote:On August 14 2010 06:06 keV. wrote:On August 14 2010 06:00 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:59 DaCruise wrote:On August 14 2010 05:56 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:53 ShinyGerbil wrote:On August 14 2010 05:46 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:43 ShinyGerbil wrote:
No, I won't stop saying rape. I won't say "are you retarded" in front of my disabled friends, I won't say "that faggot dt dropped me" in front of my gay friends, I won't say "stupid nigger" in front of my black friends, and I won't say "damn i got jewed" in front of my jewish friends. And I probably won't say rape in front of you OP, because you are sensitive about it (regardless of whether you are a victim or not). But that gives me no reason to stop saying it in general. This is the ideal trade off. This is a surprisingly calm and articulate way to imply that, when your black friends aren't around, you use the word nigger regularly. Did I misinterpret that? Potentially. Regardless of how regularly I use the word, I try not to make people feel bad, but I also try not to go out of my way to hold things back. Balance. I'll give you credit for at least honest about your use of the words. Words in themselves are harmless. Its the way they are told, and the situation they are told in that matters. You don't get to remove the meaning and history of the word nigger just because you want to. Sorry. You don't get to remove the meaning and history of the word rape just because you want to. Sorry. Read this: rape (v.) Look up rape at Dictionary.com
late 14c., "seize prey, take by force," from Anglo-Fr. raper "to seize, abduct," a legal term, probably from L. rapere "seize, carry off by force, abduct" (see rapid). Latin rapere was used for "sexual violation," but only very rarely; the usual Latin word being stuprum, lit. "disgrace." Sense of "sexual violation or ravishing of a woman" first recorded in English as a noun, late 15c. (the noun sense of "taking anything -- including a woman -- away by force" is from c.1400). The verb in this sense is from 1570s. Related: Raped; raping. Uncertain connection to Low Ger. and Du. rapen in the same sense. Rapist is from 1883. So as you can see, rape means to take something by force. Read this: "I was raped." So as you can see, that person's body was taken by force. Read this: "those zerglings are raping the hellions!" Better put those Hellions in a councelling group.
Sorry, but your attempt at circumventing the cultural understanding of what the word rape means is funny at best.
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Raping people isn't nice and no amount of awesome unit control can change that. Cool etymology lesson though.
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On August 14 2010 05:59 Phyrion wrote:
The main point I take away from the OP is this:
If we want to see ESports come to the West, we have to adhere to the same standards of language that is on public TV sports. I would love to see Starcraft II Tournaments shown on TV and make into the mainstream just like football or soccer or basketball.
I have never once heard a football commentator say "JESUS CHRIST did you see that pass?" Or a basketball commentator say "That was the longest fucking three pointer I have ever seen!" "GOD he is raping the other team all by himself!"
If we continue to use the words rape, faggot, Jesus Christ to commentate games, we will never move ESports to any major network ever. Having read this thread and seeing that most gamers don't care too much about others feelings and sensitivity to certain words and phrases, ESports will never make it in the West.
Here's the problem with that. We're talking about amateur sport. What the caster's do on their own streams is their business. It isn't professional. Get that through your head. Sure, they might take it seriously, but the thing is many of us don't. It's something we do in our leisure time for shits, giggles and entertainment purposes. You are taking things out of context. It's purely situational.
Many gamers here don't feel the necessity, correction. Let me rephrase that. Don't want, or need to be taken seriously.
This whole crusade is ridiculous.
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I think this is political correctness gone overboard.
It's all about context guys. If lings raped a bunch of hellions, it certainly does not imply that the zerglings did the down and dirty and force themselves on the hellions... It's part of the gaming culture, just like how the hip hop scene uses such as nigga, bling and booty and all that junk.
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Neo, at least a couple of people have said that they never thought about the issue before and will be more mindful of their use of the word in the future. :/
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On August 14 2010 06:19 SpicyCrab wrote:
Neo, at least a couple of people have said that they never thought about the issue before and will be more mindful of their use of the word in the future. :/
Good. Then this thread wasn't merely ending with my brain exploding out of my ears.
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On August 14 2010 06:14 HeIios wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 06:12 keV. wrote:On August 14 2010 06:11 HeIios wrote:On August 14 2010 06:06 keV. wrote:On August 14 2010 06:00 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:59 DaCruise wrote:On August 14 2010 05:56 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:53 ShinyGerbil wrote:On August 14 2010 05:46 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:43 ShinyGerbil wrote:
No, I won't stop saying rape. I won't say "are you retarded" in front of my disabled friends, I won't say "that faggot dt dropped me" in front of my gay friends, I won't say "stupid nigger" in front of my black friends, and I won't say "damn i got jewed" in front of my jewish friends. And I probably won't say rape in front of you OP, because you are sensitive about it (regardless of whether you are a victim or not). But that gives me no reason to stop saying it in general. This is the ideal trade off. This is a surprisingly calm and articulate way to imply that, when your black friends aren't around, you use the word nigger regularly. Did I misinterpret that? Potentially. Regardless of how regularly I use the word, I try not to make people feel bad, but I also try not to go out of my way to hold things back. Balance. I'll give you credit for at least honest about your use of the words. Words in themselves are harmless. Its the way they are told, and the situation they are told in that matters. You don't get to remove the meaning and history of the word nigger just because you want to. Sorry. You don't get to remove the meaning and history of the word rape just because you want to. Sorry. Read this: rape (v.) Look up rape at Dictionary.com
late 14c., "seize prey, take by force," from Anglo-Fr. raper "to seize, abduct," a legal term, probably from L. rapere "seize, carry off by force, abduct" (see rapid). Latin rapere was used for "sexual violation," but only very rarely; the usual Latin word being stuprum, lit. "disgrace." Sense of "sexual violation or ravishing of a woman" first recorded in English as a noun, late 15c. (the noun sense of "taking anything -- including a woman -- away by force" is from c.1400). The verb in this sense is from 1570s. Related: Raped; raping. Uncertain connection to Low Ger. and Du. rapen in the same sense. Rapist is from 1883. So as you can see, rape means to take something by force. [edit] Not always sexual, is my point. Yes, I'm agreeing with you... I meant to continue your conversation, I just thought it would fit in when we were talking about history fo words.
Ah, OK, that makes sense!
On August 14 2010 06:12 fly.stat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 06:11 HeIios wrote:On August 14 2010 06:06 keV. wrote:On August 14 2010 06:00 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:59 DaCruise wrote:On August 14 2010 05:56 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:53 ShinyGerbil wrote:On August 14 2010 05:46 choboPEon wrote:On August 14 2010 05:43 ShinyGerbil wrote:
No, I won't stop saying rape. I won't say "are you retarded" in front of my disabled friends, I won't say "that faggot dt dropped me" in front of my gay friends, I won't say "stupid nigger" in front of my black friends, and I won't say "damn i got jewed" in front of my jewish friends. And I probably won't say rape in front of you OP, because you are sensitive about it (regardless of whether you are a victim or not). But that gives me no reason to stop saying it in general. This is the ideal trade off. This is a surprisingly calm and articulate way to imply that, when your black friends aren't around, you use the word nigger regularly. Did I misinterpret that? Potentially. Regardless of how regularly I use the word, I try not to make people feel bad, but I also try not to go out of my way to hold things back. Balance. I'll give you credit for at least honest about your use of the words. Words in themselves are harmless. Its the way they are told, and the situation they are told in that matters. You don't get to remove the meaning and history of the word nigger just because you want to. Sorry. You don't get to remove the meaning and history of the word rape just because you want to. Sorry. Read this: rape (v.) Look up rape at Dictionary.com
late 14c., "seize prey, take by force," from Anglo-Fr. raper "to seize, abduct," a legal term, probably from L. rapere "seize, carry off by force, abduct" (see rapid). Latin rapere was used for "sexual violation," but only very rarely; the usual Latin word being stuprum, lit. "disgrace." Sense of "sexual violation or ravishing of a woman" first recorded in English as a noun, late 15c. (the noun sense of "taking anything -- including a woman -- away by force" is from c.1400). The verb in this sense is from 1570s. Related: Raped; raping. Uncertain connection to Low Ger. and Du. rapen in the same sense. Rapist is from 1883. So as you can see, rape means to take something by force. Read this: "I was raped." So as you can see, that person's body was taken by force.
So like... captured? Or kidnapped? I'm still missing the part about sexual intercourse.
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Oh and the comparison to professional sports casting is ludicrous. If E-sports got sponsored with millions of dollars and was seen on national TV, you're going to see a lot more mature casters lol.
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On August 14 2010 06:18 toadstool wrote:
I think this is political correctness gone overboard.
It's all about context guys. If lings raped a bunch of hellions, it certainly does not imply that the zerglings did the down and dirty and force themselves on the hellions... It's part of the gaming culture, just like how the hip hop scene uses such as nigga, bling and booty and all that junk.
They did force themselves on the hellions, and violate the bodies of the hellion pilots. That they tore them open rather than merely penetrating a pre-existing orifice makes the event far worse.
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EPT
