EPTI'm not saying that people shouldn't empathize and be considerate, but people in general seem way too quick to get offended by what other people say.
"Rape" and Game Culture - Page 13
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Myles
United States5162 Posts
I'm not saying that people shouldn't empathize and be considerate, but people in general seem way too quick to get offended by what other people say. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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QuanticHawk
United States32027 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:18 choboPEon wrote: Why does racism get the single pass? Sexism is out the window? (To those who are about to say men can be raped: true, but it happens at a much, much lower rate than it does to women. Men suffer from it but it is really a women's issue.) Men's rape is also massively under reported. It's a PC issue, not sexism | ||
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keV.
United States3214 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:21 FabledIntegral wrote: Still not a troll because a troll INTENTIONALLY strawmans when it's obvious the OP just had a poor argument. Then we can agree that it was just a stupid fucking point? Fine. | ||
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neohero9
United States595 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:21 Bigpon86 wrote: Honestly, If you get offended just by people saying a word then you must be one angry person. Ever heard of ignoring people? It is America and people can say anything they damn well please and that includes saying you raped some faggots in starcraft. The question is not whether or not we 'can', but whether or not we 'ought to'. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:01 Liquid`Tyler wrote: I agree with the OP but I'm losing my will to provide good arguments for my opinions because they hardly ever make a difference amongst this crowd. I suppose most gamers have a strong enough combination of feebleness and selfishness that improving their vocabulary for this cause is an insurmountable task. But they feel a bit of guilt so they must repel it with embarrassingly stupid rationalizations and that's the purpose this thread now seems to serve. On August 14 2010 05:03 Megalisk wrote: inb4 kids agree with nony solely because he is nony without actually reading the thread I agree with Nony, er... Tyler, because he made an intelligent point that reflects my own desire to provide arguments for the original post along with the futility of making it. If say Kobe Bryant grabbed his crotch and said he RAped the Denver Nuggets emphatically and repeatedly, with accompanying stare downs, the public would conclude he's a lot dumber than we thought for saying something so stupid. Why would people argue it's free speech, then criticize the original poster for making the post? Free speech has become the equivalent of the Hitler argument. People aren't saying you should be put in jail for obscene language or censored for saying it, they are saying that as intelligent people with an understanding of the connotations of the language we should be able to use alternatives that don't carry the same connotations. I myself have no problem not saying it if given a good alternative. It's not like using the word rape is some hallowed part of my culture or personality. The problem is there are no word with the equivalent degree of domination/superiority. Raped is a degree past pwned, and it's pretty awkward to try to match it. You could say you massacred the other opponent, or you routed him in just about every facet while psychologically intimidating him, but it's so long and loses the flow. | ||
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AyJay
1515 Posts
You guys must really like word rape :D | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:06 KwarK wrote: It's far more selfish for someone to ask me to censor myself so they cannot be offended by their own ignorance than it is for me to speak freely and risk them hurting themselves. As I said on the first page, I don't use the word, but I will always object whenever anyone demands censorship to avoid their own issues, be it religious, scientific or emotional. You grossly misunderstand what is happening to a rape victim when they hear the word 'rape'. Offended by their own ignorance? You have a very poor understanding of the human condition if your best description of that phenomenon is "the victim is being offended by their own ignorance". From an intellectual perspective, I think you would recognize that a language that has certain words with the power to provoke powerful emotions is superior to a language that does not have such words. If 'rape' was used only to describe the sexual act, and if every time it was used, extreme care was exercised so that anyone hearing it would have an intimate understanding of what rape is, then 'rape' could be a very powerful word. When people are desensitized to the word because they have a poor understanding of its meaning (knowing a few lines from the dictionary is not truly knowing the meaning) and because the word takes on other meanings and is used in other situations, especially light-hearted and harmless situations, then the language is robbed of a unique and powerful word. Would you censor yourself to make your language better? It would go against your principle but perhaps this would be a case where you are capable of understanding the merit. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:10 SpicyCrab wrote: Kev, You seem to miss the fact that many users in this thread have indicated that they don't think it's a big deal and that the impetus should be on the victims to get over it. So I was making the point that that is incorrect. And that we should not put the blame on the victim in any way. We should not assign guilt to a victim for being hurt by the word. That is not trolling, and it's not really a straw man either. :/ It isn't the rape victim's fault for getting raped (as you stated in a previous post) and thus being "hurt" by the word rape, but it certainly isn't our duty to change our vocabulary because of certain people that were traumatized through rape. The word "rape" has developed so far that it's a commonplace verb in gaming; it's illogical to ask millions of people to stop saying "rape" rather than ask the few hundred who are offended by the word to "get over it." TL is filled with very reasonable people, and I definitely will make a conscious effort to not use this word too much anymore, but IMO, it feels weird for someone to ask the thousands of people on TL to not use a word anymore because a certain person is offended by the word. The word "rape" within the gaming community obviously doesn't mean to sexually assault; no one can really be blamed for the usage of this word. + Show Spoiler + If anything, we should be cutting down on our use of "gay" first. | ||
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:19 SpicyCrab wrote: I am not telling you not to do anything. I am asking you to be more understanding of the effect that your words can have. In the outside world this would be a very reasonable and normal point to make but I can see that within this community it is sacrilege... It is because one of the reasons people love the internet is because it allows us to escape the social conventions of the real world. Now you are trying to impose rules (or social norms) to govern their behavior. There is a good reason for those norms, but that is irrelevant to people when we come here to say exactly what we think without being afraid of hurting feelings. | ||
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neohero9
United States595 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:22 Chairman Ray wrote: A lot of people are saying how it's much easier for a person to stop saying rape than a rape victim to get over their problems. This is true, but in no way does it mean that we shouldn't say rape. People have no obligation to sacrifice a bit of themselves in order to benefit someone else a greater amount, otherwise we would be living in a communist regime. I have a nickle in my pocket. It can either buy me one gummy bear, or feed an african child for a day. I choose the former because under a capitalist society, self comes before society. Too bad for the African child. Any self sacrifice in order to benefit another individual is considered a charitable act, not a mandatory act. Free-market economic theory is incredibly applicable to moral issues, apparently. Sorry, shit my pants laughing, brb. | ||
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exeexe
Denmark937 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:18 choboPEon wrote: Why does racism get the single pass? Sexism is out the window? (To those who are about to say men can be raped: true, but it happens at a much, much lower rate than it does to women. Men suffer from it but it is really a women's issue.) Because thats the law. You heard about laws? They are awesomemuss. User was warned for this post | ||
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zerglingsfolife
United States1694 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:18 Warrior Madness wrote: Gamers love killing. Okay, maybe they don't love killing. But they certainly love the word. Gamers throw this word around like it's going out of style. You headshot that guy, oh you "killed him" TLO banshee rushed some poor guy, oh "that noob got killed." And it's not just immature idiots and kids that seem so preoccupied with the word. I've heard MLG commentators almost say it. I can tell that he doesn't mean to use it, but I have even caught Day9 using the word during casts. Always with a slight hesitation and barely noticeable "oops expression" afterwards. I don't mean to call him out here, but I think it illustrates my point. When you call people on it the response is always the same, "well we're not talking about 'real' killing, it's just an expression." I want every one to understand what that word means to people. To those who have had personal experience with killing (I am not such a person btw) it brings to mind horrid memories, horrific thoughts of powerlessness; intense agony and pain. What's worse, when the word is used in passing by ignorant gamers it cheapens its meaning, it is as if you're saying, "oh this isn't a big deal at all." I knew a girl (a daughter of a kill victim) who used to become enraged when my gamer friends would talk about "killing each other." And they would say "sorry, I didn't mean to; I meant to say I owned him" And she would say "It makes me really sad that that means the same thing." And we wonder why people don't want to join our communities and play us? Now I know a lot of people will think they are being clever when they reply to this thread and say "yeah I hate killing let's kill killing." Or make some other idiotic comment which only reinforces my point. Please don't be one of those idiots. Understand how it makes our community look from the outside, and how it makes gamers as a whole look to the rest of the world. We do not have to stoop so low just to have fun. So this is just an open letter to TL and really all of gaming. Stop using this word, there are many substitutes which are much less abhorrent. Please understand that killing is a real problem, a real issue, and that it is an emotionally charged word that can cause real emotional damage to those who hear. There is no justification and no excuse for the use of this word in the flippant way that it is thrown around. Just stop. Actually makes a lot of sense. Completely agree. | ||
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Megalisk
United States6095 Posts
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:06 keV. wrote: It does say a lot about me, you're right. I like reading and I'm an adult. No one in the entire thread ever said anything about rape being the victim's fault or that its not a big deal. The post that I quoted is either: a) An idiot posting something stupid. b) A troll, straw-maning and trying to fish for more responses. I don't have a problem with casters omitting the word rape if they want. That is their choice. The idea that, if they don't, they are being small-minded or hurtful is something I don't agree with. It's just a word being used in the correct context. There are lots of spoken words that will cause someones ears to perk up. Niggardly is a good example. You can't omit words from the english language because they are hurtful to some individuals. It's only a troll if he doesn't actually believe that the word rape preferably shouldn't be used by the gaming community as meaning winning. | ||
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Moop
Sweden50 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:17 Chairman Ray wrote: An issue is debatable when it has an obtainable, but not simple answer. There are no obtainable answers in morality. Morals have never been debated through philosophy before. A major example is the controversy about abortions. Some people believe that abortion is immoral because it's murder. Why? Because it just is. Meanwhile philosophers tackle this issue through trying to define the beginning of life, studying the societal and maternal impacts, the value of a potential human being, etc. All of which are based on logical reasoning and do not encompass morality. Yet there are still people saying abortion is murder because it just is, which denies morality progressing at all since the stone age. Well it depends on how you define morals doesn't it? I define morals/values as the well being of conscious beings, and I think most people do. And if you define it like that, there are obtainable answers in morality, why is rape wrong? Because it affects the well being of a conscious being in a negative way, and we know this because of science and that we have actually done research on it. Morals have been debated through philosophy. | ||
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TeWy
France714 Posts
When somebody proudly says "I'm raping you" or "he is getting raped", he is somehow endorsing the act, that's horrifying and totally fucked up. The worst part of all that is that some French nerds are now starting to mimick the American nerds and their expressions. So they end up using the word "viol" like it was nothing... I don't know if these people are unconscious or just want to show up as Internet thugs who ain't afraid of anything... In any cases, please refrain you from using this word. | ||
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BillClinton
232 Posts
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speedphlux
Bulgaria962 Posts
Obviously, in gaming communities, specific words have different from the original meaning. Examples were already given, so I'm not going to repeat them. Keep in mind thou, that the majority of our gaming community are not native english speakers and "rape" to them means more "total domination over an opponent", then "sexual assault". To me for example, the word "rape" is close to "rope". We ARE a gaming community first of all. What sort of language we've developed is OUR problem. Established forms, rules and regulations doesn't quite apply in here. I'm not sure thou. I mean we're not allowed to speak words in front of general public, like for example we can't say the word "dick", but if we use the word "penis" instead, then it's fair game, even thou both - dick and penis, mean the same thing. So pretty much, when you "rape someone in game", all you're doing is saying "i totally dominated someone in game", but without wasting a whole lot of energy typing or saying "totally dominated" and simply replacing it with "rape". If there was a word - "glhf" for example, that meant something terrible (I'm not going to be giving examples, just think about something awful), would we be then forced to type out the whole "good luck have fun" thingy every single time we start a game ? There's just too much hypocrisy in this. | ||
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DaCruise
Denmark2457 Posts
On August 14 2010 05:19 KwarK wrote: Okay, this thread has very rapidly turned to shit. People spamming ludicrous examples and posts like this. I'm tempted to just say it's run its course and lock it but maybe some more discussion could be had. Stupid posts will be responded to with penalties though. Consider yourself warned. I agree. Plz lock this lame-ass thread before the ignorant and narrowminded wins another victory against the freedom of speech and freedom in generel. User was warned for this post | ||
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. Please change your post I find it offensive 
