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The film does seem to lean on the idea that they need to keep things brief and not explain to much or get bogged down in politics. There is part of me that wants to know more and what caused the New Republic to be so unable to deal with the First Order.
And there is part of me that knows it doesn’t really matter and its almost better to leave it unsaid. The best of part of 4-6 is that we didn’t know what the Republic was like. We didn’t know how Jedi worked, only that they were good and the world was better. And our mind and immigrations filled in the blanks of the “clone wars” and how Vader killed all the Jedi. And the more I learned about that time in the prequels, the less impressive and magical it was.
I like the narrative of the era of the Jedi and Republic to be asperational. That it’s a place that maybe the heroes can’t reach. And that the things that pull them back to the struggle don’t matter, that it its how they rise to meet the struggle that does.
Really, I just want a little back story on Stoke and some throwaway line saying “The New Republic wasn’t prepared to go to war with the First Order and hoped they could be reasoned with. They were either afraid or simply tired of war. There were those of us that knew better.” That is all I need in the next movie. But I can fill the rest of the blanks in myself as to exactly what happened.
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I feel this movie would have been everything I hoped for if they just never bothered with the new death star and the whole political situation. Use those 20 minutes of screen time on developing the relationships between Ren-Rey-Finn and Reys discovery of the force instead. Explore the political situation in the second movie instead.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On December 21 2015 17:10 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 09:23 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 07:02 Manit0u wrote:
And about Mara Jade, as I mentioned already, they showed her in the Rebels as a child (episode titled The Future of the Force specifically). Rebels is canon now according to Disney. Might not turn out the way she did in EU, but she's there. Ok, I watched it and I think you mean the red-headed human female baby. The Rebels baby is honestly too young to be Mara though. She'd be about as old as the youth in Rebels, i.e. about Luke's age. Personally I think she'd fit well into the story and it'd be a good idea to add her in. We'll see though. Yes, that's the baby I was referring to. Her grandmother calls her "Mara" so I assume she's Mara Jade. It would make her younger than the original one (by 12 years more or less). This would still make her around 40 at the time of ep VII. Let's just say for the sake of argument that she had Rey when she was around 20 and left her on Jakku for some yet unspecified reason.
The baby's name is Lara.
On December 21 2015 18:56 NukeD wrote:I wonder that too. She seems like a lame character after a quick Google search.
The short version: she was a Force-sensitive assassin trained to complete secret missions for the Emperor. After the Emperor died, he gives her a recurring nightmare that ends in "YOU WILL KILL LUKE SKYWALKER" and when she meets him she is obsessed with killing him. The circumstances lead to the two of them working together to escape the Empire and eventually they fall in love and get married.
Probably either the most popular or the second most popular character from the EU (the other is Thrawn). One of the best characters introduced in "Heir to the Empire."
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On December 22 2015 00:35 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 18:56 NukeD wrote:On December 21 2015 18:48 MattBarry wrote:
Why is Mara Jade so important? I wonder that too. She seems like a lame character after a quick Google search. The short version: she was a Force-sensitive assassin trained to complete secret missions for the Emperor. After the Emperor died, he gives her a recurring nightmare that ends in "YOU WILL KILL LUKE SKYWALKER" and when she meets him she is obsessed with killing him. The circumstances lead to the two of them working together to escape the Empire and eventually they fall in love and get married. Probably either the most popular or the second most popular character from the EU (the other is Thrawn). One of the best characters introduced in "Heir to the Empire."
Which is arguable. A lot of people don't like Mara Jade very much - she is written as a rather difficult to believe badass, an every nerd's wet dream, and as a perfect-fit romantic interest for Luke. Her whole character ark is very cliché. But within the mess that the EU eventually became, she is still one of the more memorable additions.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village.
Realistically, if a nation lost its main reserve of armed forces, it would be severely crippled - I've heard that if you lose 20% of a military unit then it has essentially ceased to be an effective fighting force. This would probably be even worse for an entity spanning a large part of a galaxy. While the remnants of the Republic fleet are probably bigger than the FO as it is now, it also has far, far more in the way of required military expenditures for upkeep. It has to keep rebellions within the planets from exploding into full-out war and it has to spread itself extremely thin around the galaxy. If the FO is capable of producing something else that's similar in scale to Starkiller Base (e.g. a massive fleet like the Emperor's in Ep 6) then it would be more than able to engage the Republic as it wishes. Add the chaos of losing the entire leadership in an unexpected single strike and you'll find that the Republic just got horribly crippled.
I don't know if there's any indication that Starkiller Base can even travel. It could very well just be a two-shot wonder, with the (probably correct) presumption that destroying both the Republic and Resistance leadership will give the FO an easy path to victory.
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On December 22 2015 00:43 OneRedBeard wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 00:35 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 18:56 NukeD wrote:On December 21 2015 18:48 MattBarry wrote:
Why is Mara Jade so important? I wonder that too. She seems like a lame character after a quick Google search. The short version: she was a Force-sensitive assassin trained to complete secret missions for the Emperor. After the Emperor died, he gives her a recurring nightmare that ends in "YOU WILL KILL LUKE SKYWALKER" and when she meets him she is obsessed with killing him. The circumstances lead to the two of them working together to escape the Empire and eventually they fall in love and get married. Probably either the most popular or the second most popular character from the EU (the other is Thrawn). One of the best characters introduced in "Heir to the Empire." Which is arguable. A lot of people don't like Mara Jade very much - she is written as a rather difficult to believe badass, an every nerd's wet dream, and as a perfect-fit romantic interest for Luke. Her whole character ark is very cliché. But within the mess that the EU eventually became, she is still one of the more memorable additions.
The fan art for her over the era has gotten more and more cringe worthy. Apparently body suits are a big thing in the EU as far as I can tell.
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On December 22 2015 00:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 00:43 OneRedBeard wrote:On December 22 2015 00:35 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 18:56 NukeD wrote:On December 21 2015 18:48 MattBarry wrote:
Why is Mara Jade so important? I wonder that too. She seems like a lame character after a quick Google search. The short version: she was a Force-sensitive assassin trained to complete secret missions for the Emperor. After the Emperor died, he gives her a recurring nightmare that ends in "YOU WILL KILL LUKE SKYWALKER" and when she meets him she is obsessed with killing him. The circumstances lead to the two of them working together to escape the Empire and eventually they fall in love and get married. Probably either the most popular or the second most popular character from the EU (the other is Thrawn). One of the best characters introduced in "Heir to the Empire." Which is arguable. A lot of people don't like Mara Jade very much - she is written as a rather difficult to believe badass, an every nerd's wet dream, and as a perfect-fit romantic interest for Luke. Her whole character ark is very cliché. But within the mess that the EU eventually became, she is still one of the more memorable additions. The fan art for her over the era has gotten more and more cringe worthy. Apparently body suits are a big thing in the EU as far as I can tell.
Yeah, that kind of aesthetic goes through most of the later EU stuff. It all feels so much like bad adolescent fan fiction.
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On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village.
The two alien X-Wing pilots are Ello Asty, an Abednedo, and Nien Nunb, a Sullustan. The latter is actually the same guy as Lando's jolly co-pilot on the Millennium Falcon during the Battle of Endor.
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On December 22 2015 00:35 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 17:10 Manit0u wrote:On December 21 2015 09:23 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 07:02 Manit0u wrote:
And about Mara Jade, as I mentioned already, they showed her in the Rebels as a child (episode titled The Future of the Force specifically). Rebels is canon now according to Disney. Might not turn out the way she did in EU, but she's there. Ok, I watched it and I think you mean the red-headed human female baby. The Rebels baby is honestly too young to be Mara though. She'd be about as old as the youth in Rebels, i.e. about Luke's age. Personally I think she'd fit well into the story and it'd be a good idea to add her in. We'll see though. Yes, that's the baby I was referring to. Her grandmother calls her "Mara" so I assume she's Mara Jade. It would make her younger than the original one (by 12 years more or less). This would still make her around 40 at the time of ep VII. Let's just say for the sake of argument that she had Rey when she was around 20 and left her on Jakku for some yet unspecified reason. The baby's name is Lara.
I'm sure I heard "Mara"  Perhaps it's the mix of old age and wishful thinking that makes me hear things...
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On December 22 2015 00:52 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village. Realistically, if a nation lost its main reserve of armed forces, it would be severely crippled - I've heard that if you lose 20% of a military unit then it has essentially ceased to be an effective fighting force. This would probably be even worse for an entity spanning a large part of a galaxy. While the remnants of the Republic fleet are probably bigger than the FO as it is now, it also has far, far more in the way of required military expenditures for upkeep. It has to keep rebellions within the planets from exploding into full-out war and it has to spread itself extremely thin around the galaxy. If the FO is capable of producing something else that's similar in scale to Starkiller Base (e.g. a massive fleet like the Emperor's in Ep 6) then it would be more than able to engage the Republic as it wishes. Add the chaos of losing the entire leadership in an unexpected single strike and you'll find that the Republic just got horribly crippled. I don't know if there's any indication that Starkiller Base can even travel. It could very well just be a two-shot wonder, with the (probably correct) presumption that destroying both the Republic and Resistance leadership will give the FO an easy path to victory.
But that begs the question what happened to the hundreds of Star Destroyers and thousands of other warships? Let's say there was a bloody civil war between various factions of the empire and the Republic which formed... somehow. The Republic is ostensibly the winner and has access to all the industry and shipbuilding capabilities of the former empire and, unless for some unfathomable reason, has completely cut their military budgets, should have a huge number of ships to field.
I really don't buy that the military and political heart of the Republic could be taken out in a single shot. That's way too convenient. The First Order has only shown Starkiller Base (destroyed) and a single Star Destroyer far as capital ships go. The Rebellion apparently receives zero financial support and has a base plus a couple dozen X Wings. Is the new Star Wars universe just incredibly broke or something?
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On December 22 2015 03:02 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 00:52 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village. Realistically, if a nation lost its main reserve of armed forces, it would be severely crippled - I've heard that if you lose 20% of a military unit then it has essentially ceased to be an effective fighting force. This would probably be even worse for an entity spanning a large part of a galaxy. While the remnants of the Republic fleet are probably bigger than the FO as it is now, it also has far, far more in the way of required military expenditures for upkeep. It has to keep rebellions within the planets from exploding into full-out war and it has to spread itself extremely thin around the galaxy. If the FO is capable of producing something else that's similar in scale to Starkiller Base (e.g. a massive fleet like the Emperor's in Ep 6) then it would be more than able to engage the Republic as it wishes. Add the chaos of losing the entire leadership in an unexpected single strike and you'll find that the Republic just got horribly crippled. I don't know if there's any indication that Starkiller Base can even travel. It could very well just be a two-shot wonder, with the (probably correct) presumption that destroying both the Republic and Resistance leadership will give the FO an easy path to victory. But that begs the question what happened to the hundreds of Star Destroyers and thousands of other warships? Let's say there was a bloody civil war between various factions of the empire and the Republic which formed... somehow. The Republic is ostensibly the winner and has access to all the industry and shipbuilding capabilities of the former empire and, unless for some unfathomable reason, has completely cut their military budgets, should have a huge number of ships to field. I really don't buy that the military and political heart of the Republic could be taken out in a single shot. That's way too convenient. The First Order has only shown Starkiller Base (destroyed) and a single Star Destroyer far as capital ships go. The Rebellion apparently receives zero financial support and has a base plus a couple dozen X Wings. Is the new Star Wars universe just incredibly broke or something?
New Hope has one Star Destroyer and one Death Star. And the rebellion's response to a the Death Star is 3 squads of fighters to blow it up. Sometimes less is more.
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On December 22 2015 03:07 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 03:02 ticklishmusic wrote:On December 22 2015 00:52 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village. Realistically, if a nation lost its main reserve of armed forces, it would be severely crippled - I've heard that if you lose 20% of a military unit then it has essentially ceased to be an effective fighting force. This would probably be even worse for an entity spanning a large part of a galaxy. While the remnants of the Republic fleet are probably bigger than the FO as it is now, it also has far, far more in the way of required military expenditures for upkeep. It has to keep rebellions within the planets from exploding into full-out war and it has to spread itself extremely thin around the galaxy. If the FO is capable of producing something else that's similar in scale to Starkiller Base (e.g. a massive fleet like the Emperor's in Ep 6) then it would be more than able to engage the Republic as it wishes. Add the chaos of losing the entire leadership in an unexpected single strike and you'll find that the Republic just got horribly crippled. I don't know if there's any indication that Starkiller Base can even travel. It could very well just be a two-shot wonder, with the (probably correct) presumption that destroying both the Republic and Resistance leadership will give the FO an easy path to victory. But that begs the question what happened to the hundreds of Star Destroyers and thousands of other warships? Let's say there was a bloody civil war between various factions of the empire and the Republic which formed... somehow. The Republic is ostensibly the winner and has access to all the industry and shipbuilding capabilities of the former empire and, unless for some unfathomable reason, has completely cut their military budgets, should have a huge number of ships to field. I really don't buy that the military and political heart of the Republic could be taken out in a single shot. That's way too convenient. The First Order has only shown Starkiller Base (destroyed) and a single Star Destroyer far as capital ships go. The Rebellion apparently receives zero financial support and has a base plus a couple dozen X Wings. Is the new Star Wars universe just incredibly broke or something? New Hope has one Star Destroyer and one Death Star. And the rebellion's response to a the Death Star is 3 squads of fighters to blow it up. Sometimes less is more.
Except the reasons for why that is the case are actually presented in ANH, while the justifications in TFA range from weak to non-existent. Also, the FO leaders are supposed to be cognizant of what happened to the previous two superweapons.
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On December 22 2015 03:53 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 03:07 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 03:02 ticklishmusic wrote:On December 22 2015 00:52 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village. Realistically, if a nation lost its main reserve of armed forces, it would be severely crippled - I've heard that if you lose 20% of a military unit then it has essentially ceased to be an effective fighting force. This would probably be even worse for an entity spanning a large part of a galaxy. While the remnants of the Republic fleet are probably bigger than the FO as it is now, it also has far, far more in the way of required military expenditures for upkeep. It has to keep rebellions within the planets from exploding into full-out war and it has to spread itself extremely thin around the galaxy. If the FO is capable of producing something else that's similar in scale to Starkiller Base (e.g. a massive fleet like the Emperor's in Ep 6) then it would be more than able to engage the Republic as it wishes. Add the chaos of losing the entire leadership in an unexpected single strike and you'll find that the Republic just got horribly crippled. I don't know if there's any indication that Starkiller Base can even travel. It could very well just be a two-shot wonder, with the (probably correct) presumption that destroying both the Republic and Resistance leadership will give the FO an easy path to victory. But that begs the question what happened to the hundreds of Star Destroyers and thousands of other warships? Let's say there was a bloody civil war between various factions of the empire and the Republic which formed... somehow. The Republic is ostensibly the winner and has access to all the industry and shipbuilding capabilities of the former empire and, unless for some unfathomable reason, has completely cut their military budgets, should have a huge number of ships to field. I really don't buy that the military and political heart of the Republic could be taken out in a single shot. That's way too convenient. The First Order has only shown Starkiller Base (destroyed) and a single Star Destroyer far as capital ships go. The Rebellion apparently receives zero financial support and has a base plus a couple dozen X Wings. Is the new Star Wars universe just incredibly broke or something? New Hope has one Star Destroyer and one Death Star. And the rebellion's response to a the Death Star is 3 squads of fighters to blow it up. Sometimes less is more. Except the reasons for why that is the case are actually presented in ANH, while the justifications in TFA range from weak to non-existent. Also, the FO leaders are supposed to be cognizant of what happened to the previous two superweapons.
ANH reasons = budget.
And the reason the first Deathstar was destroyed is so fucking stupid I don't know why anyone complains about the later ones. Like they are shooting at a port that leads to the core with a missile. Just close it or put something in the way. Did you really design a straight shaft that leads to the core of your super space station and didn't but a hatch on it????? Or like 20 hatches because, YO, that station is huge.
At least in TFA they had people on the station itself blowing stuff up, which will destroy any ship if you blow up the right part.
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eh i figured that was way past the point of even trying to talk abuot how dumb that one was some 30 odd years later haha
like I remember loving the first movie as kid at maybe 6 or 7 and being like damn, that was some movie bullshit
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On December 22 2015 03:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 03:53 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 03:07 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 03:02 ticklishmusic wrote:On December 22 2015 00:52 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village. Realistically, if a nation lost its main reserve of armed forces, it would be severely crippled - I've heard that if you lose 20% of a military unit then it has essentially ceased to be an effective fighting force. This would probably be even worse for an entity spanning a large part of a galaxy. While the remnants of the Republic fleet are probably bigger than the FO as it is now, it also has far, far more in the way of required military expenditures for upkeep. It has to keep rebellions within the planets from exploding into full-out war and it has to spread itself extremely thin around the galaxy. If the FO is capable of producing something else that's similar in scale to Starkiller Base (e.g. a massive fleet like the Emperor's in Ep 6) then it would be more than able to engage the Republic as it wishes. Add the chaos of losing the entire leadership in an unexpected single strike and you'll find that the Republic just got horribly crippled. I don't know if there's any indication that Starkiller Base can even travel. It could very well just be a two-shot wonder, with the (probably correct) presumption that destroying both the Republic and Resistance leadership will give the FO an easy path to victory. But that begs the question what happened to the hundreds of Star Destroyers and thousands of other warships? Let's say there was a bloody civil war between various factions of the empire and the Republic which formed... somehow. The Republic is ostensibly the winner and has access to all the industry and shipbuilding capabilities of the former empire and, unless for some unfathomable reason, has completely cut their military budgets, should have a huge number of ships to field. I really don't buy that the military and political heart of the Republic could be taken out in a single shot. That's way too convenient. The First Order has only shown Starkiller Base (destroyed) and a single Star Destroyer far as capital ships go. The Rebellion apparently receives zero financial support and has a base plus a couple dozen X Wings. Is the new Star Wars universe just incredibly broke or something? New Hope has one Star Destroyer and one Death Star. And the rebellion's response to a the Death Star is 3 squads of fighters to blow it up. Sometimes less is more. Except the reasons for why that is the case are actually presented in ANH, while the justifications in TFA range from weak to non-existent. Also, the FO leaders are supposed to be cognizant of what happened to the previous two superweapons. ANH reasons = budget.
No, there are reasons internal to the movie, and they are explicit. The Death Star wasn't accompanied by star destroyers because of how overconfident the Imperials were in their weapon.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Don't analyze Star Wars as if it were Star Trek.
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On December 22 2015 04:08 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 03:59 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 03:53 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 03:07 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 03:02 ticklishmusic wrote:On December 22 2015 00:52 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village. Realistically, if a nation lost its main reserve of armed forces, it would be severely crippled - I've heard that if you lose 20% of a military unit then it has essentially ceased to be an effective fighting force. This would probably be even worse for an entity spanning a large part of a galaxy. While the remnants of the Republic fleet are probably bigger than the FO as it is now, it also has far, far more in the way of required military expenditures for upkeep. It has to keep rebellions within the planets from exploding into full-out war and it has to spread itself extremely thin around the galaxy. If the FO is capable of producing something else that's similar in scale to Starkiller Base (e.g. a massive fleet like the Emperor's in Ep 6) then it would be more than able to engage the Republic as it wishes. Add the chaos of losing the entire leadership in an unexpected single strike and you'll find that the Republic just got horribly crippled. I don't know if there's any indication that Starkiller Base can even travel. It could very well just be a two-shot wonder, with the (probably correct) presumption that destroying both the Republic and Resistance leadership will give the FO an easy path to victory. But that begs the question what happened to the hundreds of Star Destroyers and thousands of other warships? Let's say there was a bloody civil war between various factions of the empire and the Republic which formed... somehow. The Republic is ostensibly the winner and has access to all the industry and shipbuilding capabilities of the former empire and, unless for some unfathomable reason, has completely cut their military budgets, should have a huge number of ships to field. I really don't buy that the military and political heart of the Republic could be taken out in a single shot. That's way too convenient. The First Order has only shown Starkiller Base (destroyed) and a single Star Destroyer far as capital ships go. The Rebellion apparently receives zero financial support and has a base plus a couple dozen X Wings. Is the new Star Wars universe just incredibly broke or something? New Hope has one Star Destroyer and one Death Star. And the rebellion's response to a the Death Star is 3 squads of fighters to blow it up. Sometimes less is more. Except the reasons for why that is the case are actually presented in ANH, while the justifications in TFA range from weak to non-existent. Also, the FO leaders are supposed to be cognizant of what happened to the previous two superweapons. ANH reasons = budget. No, there are reasons internal to the movie, and they are explicit. The Death Star wasn't accompanied by star destroyers because of how overconfident the Imperials were in their weapon.
Which is the exuse in the script they created to justify it.
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On December 22 2015 03:02 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 00:52 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village. Realistically, if a nation lost its main reserve of armed forces, it would be severely crippled - I've heard that if you lose 20% of a military unit then it has essentially ceased to be an effective fighting force. This would probably be even worse for an entity spanning a large part of a galaxy. While the remnants of the Republic fleet are probably bigger than the FO as it is now, it also has far, far more in the way of required military expenditures for upkeep. It has to keep rebellions within the planets from exploding into full-out war and it has to spread itself extremely thin around the galaxy. If the FO is capable of producing something else that's similar in scale to Starkiller Base (e.g. a massive fleet like the Emperor's in Ep 6) then it would be more than able to engage the Republic as it wishes. Add the chaos of losing the entire leadership in an unexpected single strike and you'll find that the Republic just got horribly crippled. I don't know if there's any indication that Starkiller Base can even travel. It could very well just be a two-shot wonder, with the (probably correct) presumption that destroying both the Republic and Resistance leadership will give the FO an easy path to victory. But that begs the question what happened to the hundreds of Star Destroyers and thousands of other warships? Let's say there was a bloody civil war between various factions of the empire and the Republic which formed... somehow. The Republic is ostensibly the winner and has access to all the industry and shipbuilding capabilities of the former empire and, unless for some unfathomable reason, has completely cut their military budgets, should have a huge number of ships to field. I really don't buy that the military and political heart of the Republic could be taken out in a single shot. That's way too convenient. The First Order has only shown Starkiller Base (destroyed) and a single Star Destroyer far as capital ships go. The Rebellion apparently receives zero financial support and has a base plus a couple dozen X Wings. Is the new Star Wars universe just incredibly broke or something?
It seems that the background literature that was published over the last weeks clears a lot of that up:
+ Show Spoiler +- The New Republic, as the old one, is de-militarized. The new Chancellor Mon Mothma (the nice lady that did the briefing before the Battle of Endor) went back to the ways of the Republic before the Army Creation Act. Planetary governments may still own fleets, police forces or militaries, but the Republic does not.
- The Imperial Fleet was engaged and destroyed in the Battle of Jakku, shortly after the Battle of Endor. Ever wondered where all those wrecks on Jakku come from? That's where from, and that is where most of the fleets from the Civil War went.
- Therefore, there is no military opposition to the First Order, besides the band of guerilla fighters called "The Resistence", led by former Rebel Alliance personell.
- How the First Order got the resources to build that freakin' planetary size battle station is of course difficult to explain, and I see some heavy handwaving on the horizon for it. But the fact that they put all their eggs in one basket with it (again!) may explain why their fleet appears relatively small.
So, yes, the Civil War drained a load of resources, and the Galaxy is pretty broke.
Plus, the new administration is led by war-weary peaceniks. Thanks, Space-Obama!
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On December 22 2015 03:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 03:53 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 03:07 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 03:02 ticklishmusic wrote:On December 22 2015 00:52 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village. Realistically, if a nation lost its main reserve of armed forces, it would be severely crippled - I've heard that if you lose 20% of a military unit then it has essentially ceased to be an effective fighting force. This would probably be even worse for an entity spanning a large part of a galaxy. While the remnants of the Republic fleet are probably bigger than the FO as it is now, it also has far, far more in the way of required military expenditures for upkeep. It has to keep rebellions within the planets from exploding into full-out war and it has to spread itself extremely thin around the galaxy. If the FO is capable of producing something else that's similar in scale to Starkiller Base (e.g. a massive fleet like the Emperor's in Ep 6) then it would be more than able to engage the Republic as it wishes. Add the chaos of losing the entire leadership in an unexpected single strike and you'll find that the Republic just got horribly crippled. I don't know if there's any indication that Starkiller Base can even travel. It could very well just be a two-shot wonder, with the (probably correct) presumption that destroying both the Republic and Resistance leadership will give the FO an easy path to victory. But that begs the question what happened to the hundreds of Star Destroyers and thousands of other warships? Let's say there was a bloody civil war between various factions of the empire and the Republic which formed... somehow. The Republic is ostensibly the winner and has access to all the industry and shipbuilding capabilities of the former empire and, unless for some unfathomable reason, has completely cut their military budgets, should have a huge number of ships to field. I really don't buy that the military and political heart of the Republic could be taken out in a single shot. That's way too convenient. The First Order has only shown Starkiller Base (destroyed) and a single Star Destroyer far as capital ships go. The Rebellion apparently receives zero financial support and has a base plus a couple dozen X Wings. Is the new Star Wars universe just incredibly broke or something? New Hope has one Star Destroyer and one Death Star. And the rebellion's response to a the Death Star is 3 squads of fighters to blow it up. Sometimes less is more. Except the reasons for why that is the case are actually presented in ANH, while the justifications in TFA range from weak to non-existent. Also, the FO leaders are supposed to be cognizant of what happened to the previous two superweapons. ANH reasons = budget. And the reason the first Deathstar was destroyed is so fucking stupid I don't know why anyone complains about the later ones. Like they are shooting at a port that leads to the core with a missile. Just close it or put something in the way. Did you really design a straight shaft that leads to the core of your super space station and didn't but a hatch on it????? Or like 20 hatches because, YO, that station is huge. At least in TFA they had people on the station itself blowing stuff up, which will destroy any ship if you blow up the right part.
Why did Achilles die when he received a minor wound to just his ankle?
This ain't science, it is Star Wars.
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On December 22 2015 04:45 OneRedBeard wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 03:59 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 03:53 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 03:07 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 03:02 ticklishmusic wrote:On December 22 2015 00:52 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village. Realistically, if a nation lost its main reserve of armed forces, it would be severely crippled - I've heard that if you lose 20% of a military unit then it has essentially ceased to be an effective fighting force. This would probably be even worse for an entity spanning a large part of a galaxy. While the remnants of the Republic fleet are probably bigger than the FO as it is now, it also has far, far more in the way of required military expenditures for upkeep. It has to keep rebellions within the planets from exploding into full-out war and it has to spread itself extremely thin around the galaxy. If the FO is capable of producing something else that's similar in scale to Starkiller Base (e.g. a massive fleet like the Emperor's in Ep 6) then it would be more than able to engage the Republic as it wishes. Add the chaos of losing the entire leadership in an unexpected single strike and you'll find that the Republic just got horribly crippled. I don't know if there's any indication that Starkiller Base can even travel. It could very well just be a two-shot wonder, with the (probably correct) presumption that destroying both the Republic and Resistance leadership will give the FO an easy path to victory. But that begs the question what happened to the hundreds of Star Destroyers and thousands of other warships? Let's say there was a bloody civil war between various factions of the empire and the Republic which formed... somehow. The Republic is ostensibly the winner and has access to all the industry and shipbuilding capabilities of the former empire and, unless for some unfathomable reason, has completely cut their military budgets, should have a huge number of ships to field. I really don't buy that the military and political heart of the Republic could be taken out in a single shot. That's way too convenient. The First Order has only shown Starkiller Base (destroyed) and a single Star Destroyer far as capital ships go. The Rebellion apparently receives zero financial support and has a base plus a couple dozen X Wings. Is the new Star Wars universe just incredibly broke or something? New Hope has one Star Destroyer and one Death Star. And the rebellion's response to a the Death Star is 3 squads of fighters to blow it up. Sometimes less is more. Except the reasons for why that is the case are actually presented in ANH, while the justifications in TFA range from weak to non-existent. Also, the FO leaders are supposed to be cognizant of what happened to the previous two superweapons. ANH reasons = budget. And the reason the first Deathstar was destroyed is so fucking stupid I don't know why anyone complains about the later ones. Like they are shooting at a port that leads to the core with a missile. Just close it or put something in the way. Did you really design a straight shaft that leads to the core of your super space station and didn't but a hatch on it????? Or like 20 hatches because, YO, that station is huge. At least in TFA they had people on the station itself blowing stuff up, which will destroy any ship if you blow up the right part. Why did Achilles die when he received a minor wound to just his ankle? This ain't science, it is Star Wars.
Exactly. Leave pointing out all the scientific flaws with Star Wars to Neil Degrasse Tyson(spoiler: BB-8 can't roll on sand, no traction). Science and political logic have very little place in Star Wars.
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EPT
