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Netherlands45349 Posts
Its a space opera not a realistic war scenario.
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Hell, you could even ask why within the entire length of the construction of the Death Star, no one thought to analyze a weakness for the battlestation enough to find a fatal flaw that was found within a few hours by the Rebellion. But you shouldn't.
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Or the political process to building a space station to blow up planets, since the senate was in power when that was green lit:
Senator: Do you need the station to fight the terrorist rebellion?
Empire Rep: Yes. They are a danger to the Empire
Senator: Why do you need one that destroys entire planets? That seems excessive what you refer to as a small terrorist group.
Empire Rep: If we find their base, we can destroy them in one blow. No one will escape
Senator: You guys didn’t spend a long time brain storming other solutions, huh?
Empire Rep: Do I sense disloyalty to the Empire?
Senator: No. No. Just thinking out loud. Send the plans to me and I will make sure this is approved through my sub committee. But I will need to review the plans to approve the budget.
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Rebel Captain: "Leia, the First Order is preparing to launch Starkiller
Leia: "Sigh, fine... Fire the force star!"
Han Solo: "The force star?
Leia: "Well, since the evil guys won't stop building death stars, and we still had the plans for the first death star, it was just easier to build one of our own to destroy theirs"
Han: "So no more risky last second hail mary missions?"
Leia: "Nah, we just push a button now"
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Minor jab from the source material at the prequels: apparently the chancellor of the New Republic didn't commit too many resources to battling the First Order because he was more concerned about trade negotiations.
+ Show Spoiler +If they wanted a weapon with infinite range that destroys everything, they could have just used a siege tank from Brood War.
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On December 22 2015 05:34 Appendix wrote:
Rebel Captain: "Leia, the First Order is preparing to launch Starkiller
Leia: "Sigh, fine... Fire the force star!"
Han Solo: "The force star?
Leia: "Well, since the evil guys won't stop building death stars, and we still had the plans for the first death star, it was just easier to build one of our own to destroy theirs"
Han: "So no more risky last second hail mary missions?"
Leia: "Nah, we just push a button now"
SW7 spoilers
+ Show Spoiler +but... but Han is dead
*cries*
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Ya, we should request some financial statements for these things to make sure both the Republic and FO are making sound financial decisions. Might as well audit them, too.
It's make believe... don't expect realism in science fiction. Bad guys are always randomly well funded. Plus, we have so little information about economics in the universe, maybe Snoke masterminds some criminal empire that generates 474758484838 credits that funds their operation, or maybe he invested really smartly in the galactic stock market.
Who cares.
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On December 22 2015 06:29 Xeris wrote:
Ya, we should request some financial statements for these things to make sure both the Republic and FO are making sound financial decisions. Might as well audit them, too.
It's make believe... don't expect realism in science fiction. Bad guys are always randomly well funded. Plus, we have so little information about economics in the universe, maybe Snoke masterminds some criminal empire that generates 474758484838 credits that funds their operation, or maybe he invested really smartly in the galactic stock market.
Who cares.
Maybe he's just really old and made big money through compound interest on index funds with low management fees. 
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Senator: We have this order of mind controlling super police that run around our sytem.
Non-Republic diplomat: Why do you allow them to run around if they can control your mind and read your thoughts
Senator: They told us they are government by the Force, which governs good and evil
Non-Republic diplomat: And you BELIEVE THEM?
Later:
Non-Republic diplomat: No, we are not trading with that place, they are all brain washed by this secret order of mind controlling swordsmen. No, I am not kidding. Yes, I saw one, they are real. They look like hobos.
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On December 21 2015 23:49 Plansix wrote:
The film does seem to lean on the idea that they need to keep things brief and not explain to much or get bogged down in politics. There is part of me that wants to know more and what caused the New Republic to be so unable to deal with the First Order.
And there is part of me that knows it doesn’t really matter and its almost better to leave it unsaid. The best of part of 4-6 is that we didn’t know what the Republic was like. We didn’t know how Jedi worked, only that they were good and the world was better. And our mind and immigrations filled in the blanks of the “clone wars” and how Vader killed all the Jedi. And the more I learned about that time in the prequels, the less impressive and magical it was.
I like the narrative of the era of the Jedi and Republic to be asperational. That it’s a place that maybe the heroes can’t reach. And that the things that pull them back to the struggle don’t matter, that it its how they rise to meet the struggle that does.
Really, I just want a little back story on Stoke and some throwaway line saying “The New Republic wasn’t prepared to go to war with the First Order and hoped they could be reasoned with. They were either afraid or simply tired of war. There were those of us that knew better.” That is all I need in the next movie. But I can fill the rest of the blanks in myself as to exactly what happened.
The Force is strong in this post!
And I'm almost sure that they will explain everything... But not in the movies. Star Wars = money factory = games, books, animated series.
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Rather than nitpick the science in this movie I just want to say I really really enjoyed all of the new characters. Rey and Finn were charismatic and played off each other well. Kylo Ren was convincing as a very angry and confused young man with a lot of power and a lot closer to how Anakin's fall should have looked like. The droid was a lot of fun etc. Just about every new character they introduced made an impression on me. I'm really interested to see how the character arcs evolve in the next two movies.
My biggest qualm with the movie is how quickly they threw together a plan to destroy the Starkiller. That scene felt out of place to me.
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On December 22 2015 00:52 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village. Realistically, if a nation lost its main reserve of armed forces, it would be severely crippled - I've heard that if you lose 20% of a military unit then it has essentially ceased to be an effective fighting force. This would probably be even worse for an entity spanning a large part of a galaxy. While the remnants of the Republic fleet are probably bigger than the FO as it is now, it also has far, far more in the way of required military expenditures for upkeep. It has to keep rebellions within the planets from exploding into full-out war and it has to spread itself extremely thin around the galaxy. If the FO is capable of producing something else that's similar in scale to Starkiller Base (e.g. a massive fleet like the Emperor's in Ep 6) then it would be more than able to engage the Republic as it wishes. Add the chaos of losing the entire leadership in an unexpected single strike and you'll find that the Republic just got horribly crippled. I don't know if there's any indication that Starkiller Base can even travel. It could very well just be a two-shot wonder, with the (probably correct) presumption that destroying both the Republic and Resistance leadership will give the FO an easy path to victory.
While that makes sense, it seems odd that even 20% of a Galaxy-spanning government's fleet would be stationed in one system, even if it is a major base. Like you say, it would need to be all over the place, just like the Empire's was.
That said, new information that's been posted here makes a lot more sense. If the Republic got rid of a central military in favor of local levies and moved its capital to Hosnian, then it does seem conceivable that a major blow could be dealt to its fleet and leadership in one shot.
With just what was presented in the movie, It was just kind of strange that the huge-ass fleet we saw in VI just parked itself in a single system and just sat there until it got kaboomed.
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On December 22 2015 04:18 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 04:08 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 03:59 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 03:53 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 03:07 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 03:02 ticklishmusic wrote:On December 22 2015 00:52 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village. Realistically, if a nation lost its main reserve of armed forces, it would be severely crippled - I've heard that if you lose 20% of a military unit then it has essentially ceased to be an effective fighting force. This would probably be even worse for an entity spanning a large part of a galaxy. While the remnants of the Republic fleet are probably bigger than the FO as it is now, it also has far, far more in the way of required military expenditures for upkeep. It has to keep rebellions within the planets from exploding into full-out war and it has to spread itself extremely thin around the galaxy. If the FO is capable of producing something else that's similar in scale to Starkiller Base (e.g. a massive fleet like the Emperor's in Ep 6) then it would be more than able to engage the Republic as it wishes. Add the chaos of losing the entire leadership in an unexpected single strike and you'll find that the Republic just got horribly crippled. I don't know if there's any indication that Starkiller Base can even travel. It could very well just be a two-shot wonder, with the (probably correct) presumption that destroying both the Republic and Resistance leadership will give the FO an easy path to victory. But that begs the question what happened to the hundreds of Star Destroyers and thousands of other warships? Let's say there was a bloody civil war between various factions of the empire and the Republic which formed... somehow. The Republic is ostensibly the winner and has access to all the industry and shipbuilding capabilities of the former empire and, unless for some unfathomable reason, has completely cut their military budgets, should have a huge number of ships to field. I really don't buy that the military and political heart of the Republic could be taken out in a single shot. That's way too convenient. The First Order has only shown Starkiller Base (destroyed) and a single Star Destroyer far as capital ships go. The Rebellion apparently receives zero financial support and has a base plus a couple dozen X Wings. Is the new Star Wars universe just incredibly broke or something? New Hope has one Star Destroyer and one Death Star. And the rebellion's response to a the Death Star is 3 squads of fighters to blow it up. Sometimes less is more. Except the reasons for why that is the case are actually presented in ANH, while the justifications in TFA range from weak to non-existent. Also, the FO leaders are supposed to be cognizant of what happened to the previous two superweapons. ANH reasons = budget. No, there are reasons internal to the movie, and they are explicit. The Death Star wasn't accompanied by star destroyers because of how overconfident the Imperials were in their weapon. Which is the exuse in the script they created to justify it.
...which doesn't matter. The point is that it is internally consistent and explicitly justified within the realm of the movie.
On December 22 2015 05:12 Plansix wrote:
Or the political process to building a space station to blow up planets, since the senate was in power when that was green lit:
Senator: Do you need the station to fight the terrorist rebellion?
Empire Rep: Yes. They are a danger to the Empire
Senator: Why do you need one that destroys entire planets? That seems excessive what you refer to as a small terrorist group.
Empire Rep: If we find their base, we can destroy them in one blow. No one will escape
Senator: You guys didn’t spend a long time brain storming other solutions, huh?
Empire Rep: Do I sense disloyalty to the Empire?
Senator: No. No. Just thinking out loud. Send the plans to me and I will make sure this is approved through my sub committee. But I will need to review the plans to approve the budget.
No, again, it's explained in ANH that the reason they have the Death Star is not simply to destroy any opposition but to keep individual planets and systems obedient to the Empire for fear of being annihilated. There is a reasoning behind the existence of the Death Star that is internal to the movie.
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On December 22 2015 07:10 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 04:18 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 04:08 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 03:59 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 03:53 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 03:07 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 03:02 ticklishmusic wrote:On December 22 2015 00:52 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village. Realistically, if a nation lost its main reserve of armed forces, it would be severely crippled - I've heard that if you lose 20% of a military unit then it has essentially ceased to be an effective fighting force. This would probably be even worse for an entity spanning a large part of a galaxy. While the remnants of the Republic fleet are probably bigger than the FO as it is now, it also has far, far more in the way of required military expenditures for upkeep. It has to keep rebellions within the planets from exploding into full-out war and it has to spread itself extremely thin around the galaxy. If the FO is capable of producing something else that's similar in scale to Starkiller Base (e.g. a massive fleet like the Emperor's in Ep 6) then it would be more than able to engage the Republic as it wishes. Add the chaos of losing the entire leadership in an unexpected single strike and you'll find that the Republic just got horribly crippled. I don't know if there's any indication that Starkiller Base can even travel. It could very well just be a two-shot wonder, with the (probably correct) presumption that destroying both the Republic and Resistance leadership will give the FO an easy path to victory. But that begs the question what happened to the hundreds of Star Destroyers and thousands of other warships? Let's say there was a bloody civil war between various factions of the empire and the Republic which formed... somehow. The Republic is ostensibly the winner and has access to all the industry and shipbuilding capabilities of the former empire and, unless for some unfathomable reason, has completely cut their military budgets, should have a huge number of ships to field. I really don't buy that the military and political heart of the Republic could be taken out in a single shot. That's way too convenient. The First Order has only shown Starkiller Base (destroyed) and a single Star Destroyer far as capital ships go. The Rebellion apparently receives zero financial support and has a base plus a couple dozen X Wings. Is the new Star Wars universe just incredibly broke or something? New Hope has one Star Destroyer and one Death Star. And the rebellion's response to a the Death Star is 3 squads of fighters to blow it up. Sometimes less is more. Except the reasons for why that is the case are actually presented in ANH, while the justifications in TFA range from weak to non-existent. Also, the FO leaders are supposed to be cognizant of what happened to the previous two superweapons. ANH reasons = budget. No, there are reasons internal to the movie, and they are explicit. The Death Star wasn't accompanied by star destroyers because of how overconfident the Imperials were in their weapon. Which is the exuse in the script they created to justify it. ...which doesn't matter. The point is that it is internally consistent and justified.
Internally consistent because they added a line to the story to justify it. This is a fictional universe bound by no laws, they can justify anything. Like the starkiller being so big it can't be defended by a fleet from fighters or blah blah blah. They just make shit up and back fill logic later.
Edit: You mean they made up a reason to justify a moon sized starbase? You do know they can destroy a planet just by strapping a rocket onto an asteroid, right? Like seriously, you get a rock going fast enough, you can blow up anything.
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On December 22 2015 07:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 07:10 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 04:18 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 04:08 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 03:59 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 03:53 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 03:07 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 03:02 ticklishmusic wrote:On December 22 2015 00:52 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:
[quote]
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance.
The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village. Realistically, if a nation lost its main reserve of armed forces, it would be severely crippled - I've heard that if you lose 20% of a military unit then it has essentially ceased to be an effective fighting force. This would probably be even worse for an entity spanning a large part of a galaxy. While the remnants of the Republic fleet are probably bigger than the FO as it is now, it also has far, far more in the way of required military expenditures for upkeep. It has to keep rebellions within the planets from exploding into full-out war and it has to spread itself extremely thin around the galaxy. If the FO is capable of producing something else that's similar in scale to Starkiller Base (e.g. a massive fleet like the Emperor's in Ep 6) then it would be more than able to engage the Republic as it wishes. Add the chaos of losing the entire leadership in an unexpected single strike and you'll find that the Republic just got horribly crippled. I don't know if there's any indication that Starkiller Base can even travel. It could very well just be a two-shot wonder, with the (probably correct) presumption that destroying both the Republic and Resistance leadership will give the FO an easy path to victory. But that begs the question what happened to the hundreds of Star Destroyers and thousands of other warships? Let's say there was a bloody civil war between various factions of the empire and the Republic which formed... somehow. The Republic is ostensibly the winner and has access to all the industry and shipbuilding capabilities of the former empire and, unless for some unfathomable reason, has completely cut their military budgets, should have a huge number of ships to field. I really don't buy that the military and political heart of the Republic could be taken out in a single shot. That's way too convenient. The First Order has only shown Starkiller Base (destroyed) and a single Star Destroyer far as capital ships go. The Rebellion apparently receives zero financial support and has a base plus a couple dozen X Wings. Is the new Star Wars universe just incredibly broke or something? New Hope has one Star Destroyer and one Death Star. And the rebellion's response to a the Death Star is 3 squads of fighters to blow it up. Sometimes less is more. Except the reasons for why that is the case are actually presented in ANH, while the justifications in TFA range from weak to non-existent. Also, the FO leaders are supposed to be cognizant of what happened to the previous two superweapons. ANH reasons = budget. No, there are reasons internal to the movie, and they are explicit. The Death Star wasn't accompanied by star destroyers because of how overconfident the Imperials were in their weapon. Which is the exuse in the script they created to justify it. ...which doesn't matter. The point is that it is internally consistent and justified. Internally consistent because they added a line to the story to justify it.
They had a sound and simple reason to justify it within the movie's story. What does it say about TFA that they didn't even have that?
On December 22 2015 07:14 Plansix wrote:
Edit: You mean they made up a reason to justify a moon sized starbase? You do know they can destroy a planet just by strapping a rocket onto an asteroid, right? Like seriously, you get a rock going fast enough, you can blow up anything.
That's really great, and irrelevant. The Empire did not go the way of the "rock going fast enough", they went the way of the superlaser that could only be created by a moon-sized starbase (which, by the way, is still way more plausible than the starkiller weapon).
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TFA just didn't make a problem where there wasn't any. The only way the whole "fleet" issue comes up is if they talk about it. They are just going to write around it anyways, so just don't bring it up. And blowing up planets is really stupid, laser or otherwise. Like critically. Making a planet unlivable is super easy once your in space. So are blasters, since their shots move slower than bullets. And light sabers. Really, its all stupid if you think about it for to long. ANH is super dumb because Luke's name is Skywalker and he lives as Skywalker farm on his fathers home planet.
But WHO CARES!?!?!? Its space opera!
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On December 22 2015 07:10 kwizach wrote:
No, again, it's explained in ANH that the reason they have the Death Star is not simply to destroy any opposition but to keep individual planets and systems obedient to the Empire for fear of being annihilated.
If I were a senator I would definitely support funding an obscenely expensive weapon meant to destroy rebellious planets.
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On December 22 2015 07:29 Plansix wrote:
TFA just didn't make a problem where there wasn't any. The only way the whole "fleet" issue comes up is if they talk about it. They are just going to write around it anyways, so just don't bring it up.
Except there is a problem, because TFA doesn't exist in a vacuum but as a sequel to the OT. The fact that there is zero internal explanation or justification for how things present themselves and for some of the decisions that are taken by the protagonists is simply lazy writing.
On December 22 2015 07:29 Plansix wrote:
And blowing up planets is really stupid, laser or otherwise. Like critically. Making a planet unlivable is super easy once your in space. So are blasters, since their shots move slower than bullets. And light sabers. Really, its all stupid if you think about it for to long. ANH is super dumb because Luke's name is Skywalker and he lives as Skywalker farm on his fathers home planet.
You seem to be completely missing the point. The point is not whether or not a plot element appears stupid to you. The point is whether or not that plot element is internally justified/consistent.
On December 22 2015 07:29 Plansix wrote:
But WHO CARES!?!?!? Its space opera!
On December 22 2015 04:49 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 04:45 OneRedBeard wrote:On December 22 2015 03:59 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 03:53 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 03:07 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 03:02 ticklishmusic wrote:On December 22 2015 00:52 LegalLord wrote:On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village. Realistically, if a nation lost its main reserve of armed forces, it would be severely crippled - I've heard that if you lose 20% of a military unit then it has essentially ceased to be an effective fighting force. This would probably be even worse for an entity spanning a large part of a galaxy. While the remnants of the Republic fleet are probably bigger than the FO as it is now, it also has far, far more in the way of required military expenditures for upkeep. It has to keep rebellions within the planets from exploding into full-out war and it has to spread itself extremely thin around the galaxy. If the FO is capable of producing something else that's similar in scale to Starkiller Base (e.g. a massive fleet like the Emperor's in Ep 6) then it would be more than able to engage the Republic as it wishes. Add the chaos of losing the entire leadership in an unexpected single strike and you'll find that the Republic just got horribly crippled. I don't know if there's any indication that Starkiller Base can even travel. It could very well just be a two-shot wonder, with the (probably correct) presumption that destroying both the Republic and Resistance leadership will give the FO an easy path to victory. But that begs the question what happened to the hundreds of Star Destroyers and thousands of other warships? Let's say there was a bloody civil war between various factions of the empire and the Republic which formed... somehow. The Republic is ostensibly the winner and has access to all the industry and shipbuilding capabilities of the former empire and, unless for some unfathomable reason, has completely cut their military budgets, should have a huge number of ships to field. I really don't buy that the military and political heart of the Republic could be taken out in a single shot. That's way too convenient. The First Order has only shown Starkiller Base (destroyed) and a single Star Destroyer far as capital ships go. The Rebellion apparently receives zero financial support and has a base plus a couple dozen X Wings. Is the new Star Wars universe just incredibly broke or something? New Hope has one Star Destroyer and one Death Star. And the rebellion's response to a the Death Star is 3 squads of fighters to blow it up. Sometimes less is more. Except the reasons for why that is the case are actually presented in ANH, while the justifications in TFA range from weak to non-existent. Also, the FO leaders are supposed to be cognizant of what happened to the previous two superweapons. ANH reasons = budget. And the reason the first Deathstar was destroyed is so fucking stupid I don't know why anyone complains about the later ones. Like they are shooting at a port that leads to the core with a missile. Just close it or put something in the way. Did you really design a straight shaft that leads to the core of your super space station and didn't but a hatch on it????? Or like 20 hatches because, YO, that station is huge. At least in TFA they had people on the station itself blowing stuff up, which will destroy any ship if you blow up the right part. Why did Achilles die when he received a minor wound to just his ankle? This ain't science, it is Star Wars. Exactly. Leave pointing out all the scientific flaws with Star Wars to Neil Degrasse Tyson(spoiler: BB-8 can't roll on sand, no traction). Science and political logic have very little place in Star Wars.
Nonsense. With regards to the political dimension, the entire point of the prequels was to tell two stories: how Anakin turned to the dark side and participated in the extinction of the Jedi, and how the Empire replaced the old Republic. You can argue that there are some issues with Palpatine's plan (as Mr. Plinkett does very well), but there is still much emphasis on the political developments that led to the Empire, and many of them are perfectly sound.
With regards to the science, it is a tired argument that because a movie belongs to the science-fiction genre, we shouldn't criticize its scientific aspects because "it's not real anyway", "you can't really go faster than light", "the Force doesn't exist", etc. The truth is that what matters is, as Tolkien argued in On Fairy-Stories, the inner consistency of the imaginary world. Star Wars' physics framework includes the existence of the Force, the possibility to travel FTL through hyperspace, lightsabers with a limited length, etc. The fact that those have no real-world equivalent is not in itself problematic: we accept that they are true in the Star Wars universe, and we then immerse ourselves in the stories told within those parameters. This means that if something else suddenly pops up which completely contradicts or makes no sense with regards to these parameters, it's perfectly normal and legitimate to complain about it. For example, if someone in the Resistance briefing room suddenly whipped out a lamp during the Star killer discussion, rubbed it, got a magic rabbit genie to come out of it, and had him make the FO's planet magically disappear, everyone would be denouncing the ridiculousness of the whole scene. That's because the existence of a magic rabbit genie capable of making wishes come true does not fall within the parameters of the Star Wars universe as they have been defined throughout the movies. An example taken from TFA is the view of the Republic planets being destroyed by the Star killer's first shot: the heroes observe the entire scene with their naked eyes from Takodana, which makes absolutely zero sense with regards to how distances and lightspeed have been established previously in the Star Wars movies. Last time I checked, in RotJ the Coruscant population did not see the Death Star blow up in the Coruscant sky. You may brush this off and declare "I don't care", but that doesn't make it any less ridiculous.
On December 22 2015 07:46 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 07:10 kwizach wrote:
No, again, it's explained in ANH that the reason they have the Death Star is not simply to destroy any opposition but to keep individual planets and systems obedient to the Empire for fear of being annihilated. If I were a senator I would definitely support funding an obscenely expensive weapon meant to destroy rebellious planets.
So witty! Because the Emperor obviously gambled the construction of the Death Star on votes he did not control.
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That gif is so fucking good. Like the Storm Trooper looks DOPE. That candy cane means business.
Edit; Sorry, I can't be bothered to argue about Star Wars lore any more, because its all so stupid if you think about any of the movies for to long. This candy cane gif is my life now.
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EPT
