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On December 22 2015 08:50 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 08:48 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 08:46 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 08:43 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 08:40 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 08:34 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 08:30 Plansix wrote:
Why not? Do you not read my posts or something? I did. I was not swayed by the arguments. None of those specific problems effected my enjoyment of the film. I do not care about your enjoyment of the film. My point is factual: people standing on Takodana should not be able to witness in real time the destruction of the planets in the Hosnian system, let alone with their naked eyes. That is not how physics work in this universe or in the Star Wars universe. With that agrument, I give zero fucks about your personal issues with the film and your need to nitpick the physics in a world with space wizards. I've replied to the "it has space wizards argument" several times: internal consistency matters. If you don't care about it, that's great, perhaps you can stop replying to me as if your life depended upon defending every single aspect of this movie. You know you're the comic book guy from the Simpsons right now, right?
I'm anyone who thinks internal consistency matters. But if it makes you feel better to go for personal attacks because you're utterly incapable of responding intelligently to my arguments, go for it.
On December 22 2015 08:50 The_Red_Viper wrote:
The movie not explaining everything 100% also isn't really a inconsistency issue, it just didn't explain it.
Absolutely, the lack of explanations for various plot elements and the lack of internal consistency are two separate issues I have with the movie. They just happened to get mixed up in this discussion because Plansix confused the two.
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On December 22 2015 08:43 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 08:40 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 08:34 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 08:30 Plansix wrote:
Why not? Do you not read my posts or something? I did. I was not swayed by the arguments. None of those specific problems effected my enjoyment of the film. I do not care about your enjoyment of the film. My point is factual: people standing on Takodana should not be able to witness in real time the destruction of the planets in the Hosnian system, let alone with their naked eyes. That is not how physics work in this universe or in the Star Wars universe.
Meh Star Wars was always more on the fiction part then on the science part and stuff like this shouldn't really matter.
+ Show Spoiler +
What confuses me more is that there is even a rebellion or resistance still around although they have the republic, which should pown the imperials and strike the planet killer with a major fleet instead of just 20-30? Xwings.
Maybe there is a good explanation, but we are not given one.
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On December 22 2015 08:52 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 08:50 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 08:48 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 08:46 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 08:43 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 08:40 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 08:34 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 08:30 Plansix wrote:
Why not? Do you not read my posts or something? I did. I was not swayed by the arguments. None of those specific problems effected my enjoyment of the film. I do not care about your enjoyment of the film. My point is factual: people standing on Takodana should not be able to witness in real time the destruction of the planets in the Hosnian system, let alone with their naked eyes. That is not how physics work in this universe or in the Star Wars universe. With that agrument, I give zero fucks about your personal issues with the film and your need to nitpick the physics in a world with space wizards. I've replied to the "it has space wizards argument" several times: internal consistency matters. If you don't care about it, that's great, perhaps you can stop replying to me as if your life depended upon defending every single aspect of this movie. You know you're the comic book guy from the Simpsons right now, right? I'm anyone who thinks internal consistency matters. But if it makes you feel better to go for personal attacks because you're utterly incapable of responding intelligently to my arguments, go for it.
And cares deeply about the accurate representation of the physics of the star wars universe.
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On December 22 2015 08:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 08:52 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 08:50 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 08:48 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 08:46 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 08:43 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 08:40 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 08:34 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 08:30 Plansix wrote:
Why not? Do you not read my posts or something? I did. I was not swayed by the arguments. None of those specific problems effected my enjoyment of the film. I do not care about your enjoyment of the film. My point is factual: people standing on Takodana should not be able to witness in real time the destruction of the planets in the Hosnian system, let alone with their naked eyes. That is not how physics work in this universe or in the Star Wars universe. With that agrument, I give zero fucks about your personal issues with the film and your need to nitpick the physics in a world with space wizards. I've replied to the "it has space wizards argument" several times: internal consistency matters. If you don't care about it, that's great, perhaps you can stop replying to me as if your life depended upon defending every single aspect of this movie. You know you're the comic book guy from the Simpsons right now, right? I'm anyone who thinks internal consistency matters. But if it makes you feel better to go for personal attacks because you're utterly incapable of responding intelligently to my arguments, go for it. And cares deeply about the accurate representation of the physics of the star wars universe.
You're not even discussing the actual issue anymore; for some reason you're now discussing my sentiments -- as if you had anything intelligent to say about them. If you don't care about anything making sense, that's great. If the Takodana scene doesn't bother you, that's great. In itself, it didn't bother me that much, but it was just one more stupid moment that could not possibly exist in the SW universe. Remind me why you are still replying to me?
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Holy_AT:
I think the villains are great in this movie :D They are more than just purely evil, they are actual human beings which i prefer 100%.
Other than that,
This is the opening text:
+ Show Spoiler +Luke Skywalker has vanished.
In his absence, the sinister
FIRST ORDER has risen
from the ashes of the Empire
and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi,
has been destroyed.
With the support of the REPUBLIC,
General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE.
She is desperate to find her
brother Luke and gain his
help in restoring peace and
justice to the galaxy.
Leia has sent her most daring
pilot on a secret mission
to Jakku, where an old ally
has discovered a clue to
Luke’s whereabouts . . . .
Maybe the FO simply wasn't that big of a deal yet? Sure they have troops, etc but the destruction of the planets probably was the first real 'inconvenience' for the republic? Maybe it isn't a story about saving the whole universe, maybe it's a big smaller after all 
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I'm a lot more surprised that the Resistance are super hyped and excited at the end when the entire Senate...or whatever, they never said where it was except for the Space Nazis talking about it...was exploded and now presumably the entire Republic is boned since their whole fleet and core system was wiped out.
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On December 22 2015 09:01 The_Red_Viper wrote:Holy_AT: I think the villains are great in this movie :D They are more than just purely evil, they are actual human beings which i prefer 100%. This is the opening text: + Show Spoiler +Luke Skywalker has vanished.
In his absence, the sinister
FIRST ORDER has risen
from the ashes of the Empire
and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi,
has been destroyed.
With the support of the REPUBLIC,
General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE.
She is desperate to find her
brother Luke and gain his
help in restoring peace and
justice to the galaxy.
Leia has sent her most daring
pilot on a secret mission
to Jakku, where an old ally
has discovered a clue to
Luke’s whereabouts . . . . Maybe the FO simply wasn't that big of a deal yet? Sure they have troops, etc but the destruction of the planets probably was the first real 'inconvenience' for the republic? Maybe it isn't a story about saving the whole universe, maybe it's a big smaller after all
Well if they were not that big of a deal, then why was there a need to restore peace and order?
but thats not that important to me and I don't really need an explantion for that, its a small plothole I will overlook.
+ Show Spoiler +
The villains to me, (and their apperaance) are just borderline ridiculous and absurd.
I mean come on you can't place a 25-30 year old redhead in command of a battlestation that is a planet or at least has some dimenions of it. The new emporer looks like a dork and Captain Phasma has a shitty name and a girly stormtrooper outfit. And Kylo Ren is not conflicted, he is just batshit crazy....
Give me back my Nazis in outer space ....
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I don't give a shit about physics and I think the overall movie was good far as making the characters likeable and keeping the plot compelling rolling along (even if I disagree with certain events, one of which stands out).
But far as context though, a lot of things don't make sense or are just a bit of a stretch. Like, maybe I'm a little biased because of all the super cool shit in the Extended Universe/ novels, but the direction JJ Abrams/ Disney just seems so... pedestrian. Yeah, I called a fucking weaponized planet killing planet pedestrian. Like, do we accept that the Republic is some sort of toothless intergalactic UN (without the benefit of the US or NATO to supply troops) when the government it is ostensibly a "continuation" of had thousands of capital ships across the galaxy, millions of storm troopers and god knows what other military force?
Spoilers:
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah, Snoke was dumb AF. It's a lame name for a lame villain who wasn't really scary. Kylo Ren was kinda scary until it was revealed he was a scrawny hooknosed brat who threw temper tantrums.
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Hyrule18982 Posts
On December 22 2015 08:06 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 08:00 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 07:51 Plansix wrote:
because its all so stupid if you think about any of the movies for to long. Still missing the point. Stupid != internally inconsistent/unjustified. The point doesn't matter. The movies are big dump pulpy romps with sci-fi trapping. They have space wizards that fight was laser swords and space Nazis that are taken down by a scrappy group of pilots, a space princess and a smuggler with a heart of gold. The main villain is named Dark Father in German because thatch show smart the film's are.
I'm going to assume you got that bit of trivia out of Pitch Perfect, because it's not actually true: Dark Father is dunkler Vater.
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Hey guys I wrote a review of Star Wars - The Force Awakens in the movie thread. I avoided spoilers so you can read it even if you haven't seen the movie yet and avoid spoilers like the plague. Everybody else can of course read it, too  .
Please no hatemail.
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It was a great remake of IV
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The movie was decent i guess. Something that bothers me the most is the combat, it kinda felt kinda lame overall.
The good side characters usually dont cover themself from the lasers that is shoot from the bad guys.
Also, the laser fight was pretty underhelming. I guess there is a big chance the sequel can be alot better actually.
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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
It wasn't even bad, it was just 100% commercial and completely hollow. At least the prequels had something to say. So disappointed.
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On December 22 2015 08:53 Holy_AT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 08:43 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 08:40 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 08:34 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 08:30 Plansix wrote:
Why not? Do you not read my posts or something? I did. I was not swayed by the arguments. None of those specific problems effected my enjoyment of the film. I do not care about your enjoyment of the film. My point is factual: people standing on Takodana should not be able to witness in real time the destruction of the planets in the Hosnian system, let alone with their naked eyes. That is not how physics work in this universe or in the Star Wars universe. Meh Star Wars was always more on the fiction part then on the science part and stuff like this shouldn't really matter. + Show Spoiler +
What confuses me more is that there is even a rebellion or resistance still around although they have the republic, which should pown the imperials and strike the planet killer with a major fleet instead of just 20-30? Xwings.
Maybe there is a good explanation, but we are not given one.
The "official" definition of the New Republic:
The Rebel Alliance became the New Republic after its victory over the Empire at the Battle of Endor. Eager to win over the war-weary citizens of the galaxy, the New Republic revived the Senate, signed a peace treaty – the Galactic Concordance – with the Empire’s remnants, and drastically reduced its military capabilities. That policy aroused the ire of rebel hero Leia Organa, who warned that elements of the Empire were still seeking power. Sidelined from the political process, Organa founded the Resistance to oppose the Empire’s successor state, the mysterious First Order.
The "official" definition of the Resistance:
A small, secretive private military force, the Resistance was founded by rebel hero Leia Organa to monitor the actions of the First Order. Most New Republic power brokers tolerate the Resistance while regarding Organa and her fighters as dead-enders with an unfortunate fixation on the past. Organa’s cash-strapped movement relies on credits, ships and equipment quietly funneled to it from the few senators who share her concerns.
The "official" definition of the First Order:
The New Republic’s rise reduced the once-mighty Empire to a rump state hemmed in by strict disarmament treaties and punishing reparations. But in the galaxy’s Unknown Regions, former Imperial officers, nobles and technologists plotted a return to power, building fleets and armies in secret. This movement became the First Order, ruled by Supreme Leader Snoke, and is now ready to reclaim the Imperial legacy.
The FO is basically not considered a threat by the relatively small Republic fleet. The Resistance recognizes the threat and tries to stop them, but not in time for them to unleash their super weapon on the Republic, basically leveling the playing field (though losing the base has to hurt them as well).
Makes sense to me, but I too wish they explained this better in the movie.
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With regards to physics I agree you shouldn't really care about the inner workings in a Star Wars film, but I think they somewhat brought it upon themselves when they incorporated quasi-science into their film.
"How can they power such a weapon?"
"They drain the sun...."
Had they just never mentioned it I would not have given any thoughts to physics at all.
"The planetary death beam of doom takes 20 minutes to charge"
"Cool"
EDIT Star Wars should basically operate under the don't-ask-don't-tell principle
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Hey just wondering why the New Republic is not backing up The Resistance during battles. Like first hand military involvement.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
They scrubbed out and died.
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Am I the only person who hopes Maarek Steele, the guy from the TIE fighter games, plays a pivotal role here on out? What a great setup...a hero Poe vs. another hero Maarek who has his different ideals and stuff?
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On December 22 2015 10:23 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 08:53 Holy_AT wrote:On December 22 2015 08:43 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 08:40 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 08:34 kwizach wrote:On December 22 2015 08:30 Plansix wrote:
Why not? Do you not read my posts or something? I did. I was not swayed by the arguments. None of those specific problems effected my enjoyment of the film. I do not care about your enjoyment of the film. My point is factual: people standing on Takodana should not be able to witness in real time the destruction of the planets in the Hosnian system, let alone with their naked eyes. That is not how physics work in this universe or in the Star Wars universe. Meh Star Wars was always more on the fiction part then on the science part and stuff like this shouldn't really matter. + Show Spoiler +
What confuses me more is that there is even a rebellion or resistance still around although they have the republic, which should pown the imperials and strike the planet killer with a major fleet instead of just 20-30? Xwings.
Maybe there is a good explanation, but we are not given one. The "official" definition of the New Republic:
The Rebel Alliance became the New Republic after its victory over the Empire at the Battle of Endor. Eager to win over the war-weary citizens of the galaxy, the New Republic revived the Senate, signed a peace treaty – the Galactic Concordance – with the Empire’s remnants, and drastically reduced its military capabilities. That policy aroused the ire of rebel hero Leia Organa, who warned that elements of the Empire were still seeking power. Sidelined from the political process, Organa founded the Resistance to oppose the Empire’s successor state, the mysterious First Order. The "official" definition of the Resistance: A small, secretive private military force, the Resistance was founded by rebel hero Leia Organa to monitor the actions of the First Order. Most New Republic power brokers tolerate the Resistance while regarding Organa and her fighters as dead-enders with an unfortunate fixation on the past. Organa’s cash-strapped movement relies on credits, ships and equipment quietly funneled to it from the few senators who share her concerns. The "official" definition of the First Order: The New Republic’s rise reduced the once-mighty Empire to a rump state hemmed in by strict disarmament treaties and punishing reparations. But in the galaxy’s Unknown Regions, former Imperial officers, nobles and technologists plotted a return to power, building fleets and armies in secret. This movement became the First Order, ruled by Supreme Leader Snoke, and is now ready to reclaim the Imperial legacy. The FO is basically not considered a threat by the relatively small Republic fleet. The Resistance recognizes the threat and tries to stop them, but not in time for them to unleash their super weapon on the Republic, basically leveling the playing field (though losing the base has to hurt them as well). Makes sense to me, but I too wish they explained this better in the movie.
Sounds like the Republic is a bunch of pansies, and if they're such cowards it seems inconceivable that one Imperial faction or another couldn't have knocked them over. Was the Empire's control structure so centralized that the death of the Emperor and whoever else at Endor made whatever was left completely unable to go against the Republic?
On December 22 2015 10:46 Appendix wrote:
With regards to physics I agree you shouldn't really care about the inner workings in a Star Wars film, but I think they somewhat brought it upon themselves when they incorporated quasi-science into their film.
"How can they power such a weapon?"
"They drain the sun...."
Had they just never mentioned it I would not have given any thoughts to physics at all.
"The planetary death beam of doom takes 20 minutes to charge"
"Cool"
EDIT Star Wars should basically operate under the don't-ask-don't-tell principle
It's not the physics that breaks suspense of disbelief, it's the fact that you can't really link the end of Episode 6 with the beginning of Episode 7.
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On December 22 2015 10:22 Random() wrote:
It wasn't even bad, it was just 100% commercial and completely hollow. At least the prequels had something to say. So disappointed.
JJ Abrams' forte
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EPT
