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On December 23 2015 00:03 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2015 22:53 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 15:45 malcram wrote:
Kylo is cool, when his mask is on. His face though. Perhaps it was an appropriate reflection of his childish behaviour, but to me, it was just a little bit too goofy looking. Not that he's ugly or anything, just has that goofy looking face. I think it was intentional to make him look so youthful. His character is supposed to be conflicted, have uncontrolled anger and exude loneliness and Adam Driver pulls that off. You also have to wonder if he is opposed with finding Luke because he wants to kill his master or he secretly hopes Luke can stop him. You can make similar arguments about Vader and his quest to find Luke. The actor who played him really did an excellent job. I have really felt that Kylo is disturbed on so many levels, like he really feels betrayed by everyone and is really lost in the world. You can definitelly feel that something went wrong in his life and he ended up alone and messed in the head. Great performance. However we should have a more clear villain for the E8 imo as the movie feels beheaded in that regard. Kylo should tell his own story which should be somewhere in the middle of two opposing poles which is the good (resistance) and the evil (empire). Snoke works as a behind the curtain overmind (but please less CGI) but we need a new Darth Vader.
When he tells Rey “I can teach you how to use the force,” had that such an undertone of desperation to it. Like saying “Please join me, I don’t want to be alone anymore.” That character was everything Anakin should have been.
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On December 23 2015 00:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2015 00:03 NukeD wrote:On December 22 2015 22:53 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 15:45 malcram wrote:
Kylo is cool, when his mask is on. His face though. Perhaps it was an appropriate reflection of his childish behaviour, but to me, it was just a little bit too goofy looking. Not that he's ugly or anything, just has that goofy looking face. I think it was intentional to make him look so youthful. His character is supposed to be conflicted, have uncontrolled anger and exude loneliness and Adam Driver pulls that off. You also have to wonder if he is opposed with finding Luke because he wants to kill his master or he secretly hopes Luke can stop him. You can make similar arguments about Vader and his quest to find Luke. The actor who played him really did an excellent job. I have really felt that Kylo is disturbed on so many levels, like he really feels betrayed by everyone and is really lost in the world. You can definitelly feel that something went wrong in his life and he ended up alone and messed in the head. Great performance. However we should have a more clear villain for the E8 imo as the movie feels beheaded in that regard. Kylo should tell his own story which should be somewhere in the middle of two opposing poles which is the good (resistance) and the evil (empire). Snoke works as a behind the curtain overmind (but please less CGI) but we need a new Darth Vader. When he tells Rey “I can teach you how to use the force,” had that such an undertone of desperation to it. Like saying “Please join me, I don’t want to be alone anymore.” That character was everything Anakin should have been.
yup! noticed that too, he seems really alone but loves the power
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On December 23 2015 00:23 QuanticHawk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2015 00:16 Plansix wrote:On December 23 2015 00:03 NukeD wrote:On December 22 2015 22:53 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 15:45 malcram wrote:
Kylo is cool, when his mask is on. His face though. Perhaps it was an appropriate reflection of his childish behaviour, but to me, it was just a little bit too goofy looking. Not that he's ugly or anything, just has that goofy looking face. I think it was intentional to make him look so youthful. His character is supposed to be conflicted, have uncontrolled anger and exude loneliness and Adam Driver pulls that off. You also have to wonder if he is opposed with finding Luke because he wants to kill his master or he secretly hopes Luke can stop him. You can make similar arguments about Vader and his quest to find Luke. The actor who played him really did an excellent job. I have really felt that Kylo is disturbed on so many levels, like he really feels betrayed by everyone and is really lost in the world. You can definitelly feel that something went wrong in his life and he ended up alone and messed in the head. Great performance. However we should have a more clear villain for the E8 imo as the movie feels beheaded in that regard. Kylo should tell his own story which should be somewhere in the middle of two opposing poles which is the good (resistance) and the evil (empire). Snoke works as a behind the curtain overmind (but please less CGI) but we need a new Darth Vader. When he tells Rey “I can teach you how to use the force,” had that such an undertone of desperation to it. Like saying “Please join me, I don’t want to be alone anymore.” That character was everything Anakin should have been. yup! noticed that too, he seems really alone but loves the power
Its amazing how much better it is when the villains are humans with emotions/desires and not perfect robot killing machines powered by malice.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On December 23 2015 00:09 Volband wrote:
One thing I did not understand however, is why there were only X-wings? You are attacking a base on a planet and you don't even bring Y-wings to the battles??!! I know they are going to top off the space and lightsaber (and we'll probbaly have ground as well) battles in the next episodes, so they did not want to go full out, but come on... at least bring two and say these were the only ones they could get ready in time or something. That annoyed me more than anything.
My guess would be that X-Wings have evolved further to serve as a versatile fighter-bomber craft rather than just a fighter.
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On December 23 2015 00:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2015 00:03 NukeD wrote:On December 22 2015 22:53 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 15:45 malcram wrote:
Kylo is cool, when his mask is on. His face though. Perhaps it was an appropriate reflection of his childish behaviour, but to me, it was just a little bit too goofy looking. Not that he's ugly or anything, just has that goofy looking face. I think it was intentional to make him look so youthful. His character is supposed to be conflicted, have uncontrolled anger and exude loneliness and Adam Driver pulls that off. You also have to wonder if he is opposed with finding Luke because he wants to kill his master or he secretly hopes Luke can stop him. You can make similar arguments about Vader and his quest to find Luke. The actor who played him really did an excellent job. I have really felt that Kylo is disturbed on so many levels, like he really feels betrayed by everyone and is really lost in the world. You can definitelly feel that something went wrong in his life and he ended up alone and messed in the head. Great performance. However we should have a more clear villain for the E8 imo as the movie feels beheaded in that regard. Kylo should tell his own story which should be somewhere in the middle of two opposing poles which is the good (resistance) and the evil (empire). Snoke works as a behind the curtain overmind (but please less CGI) but we need a new Darth Vader. When he tells Rey “I can teach you how to use the force,” had that such an undertone of desperation to it. Like saying “Please join me, I don’t want to be alone anymore.” That character was everything Anakin should have been.
I also thought he was afraid of her, mixed with respect. Like the instant he recognized the force and it's level in her, he was in awe. And if it's true, it's even cooler he did not choose the envy way out, killing her right there, then lying to Snooke about it, given how he seemingly wanted to be the best, so letting someone as her live, or even practice besides him as an apprentice would mean he forfeits ever being the strongest.
Edit: then again, good luck understanding the motives and actions of someone who probably has no idea why he's doing those things in the first place.
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On December 23 2015 00:42 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2015 00:16 Plansix wrote:On December 23 2015 00:03 NukeD wrote:On December 22 2015 22:53 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 15:45 malcram wrote:
Kylo is cool, when his mask is on. His face though. Perhaps it was an appropriate reflection of his childish behaviour, but to me, it was just a little bit too goofy looking. Not that he's ugly or anything, just has that goofy looking face. I think it was intentional to make him look so youthful. His character is supposed to be conflicted, have uncontrolled anger and exude loneliness and Adam Driver pulls that off. You also have to wonder if he is opposed with finding Luke because he wants to kill his master or he secretly hopes Luke can stop him. You can make similar arguments about Vader and his quest to find Luke. The actor who played him really did an excellent job. I have really felt that Kylo is disturbed on so many levels, like he really feels betrayed by everyone and is really lost in the world. You can definitelly feel that something went wrong in his life and he ended up alone and messed in the head. Great performance. However we should have a more clear villain for the E8 imo as the movie feels beheaded in that regard. Kylo should tell his own story which should be somewhere in the middle of two opposing poles which is the good (resistance) and the evil (empire). Snoke works as a behind the curtain overmind (but please less CGI) but we need a new Darth Vader. When he tells Rey “I can teach you how to use the force,” had that such an undertone of desperation to it. Like saying “Please join me, I don’t want to be alone anymore.” That character was everything Anakin should have been. I also thought he was afraid of her, mixed with respect. Like the instant he recognized the force and it's level in her, he was in awe. And if it's true, it's even cooler he did not choose the envy way out, killing her right there, then lying to Snooke about it, given how he seemingly wanted to be the best, so letting someone as her live, or even practice besides him as an apprentice would mean he forfeits ever being the strongest.
I think the his actions can be viewed a lot like Vader’s in the series once he figures out that Luke is part of the rebellion. All of this actions during Empire and on are to find Luke, which can either been seen as him wanting to turn his son or Vader hoping his son would redeem him and turn him away from the dark side. He was aware of Luke before the Emperor and its interesting to assume he unconsciously wanted to get to Luke first before the Emperor. Maybe to turn Luke, or be turned away from the Dark Side.
Ren is the same way. He is afraid of the light side of the force and has convinced himself Vader failed and was turned. But also he feels the pull of his better self. There is this aspect of self sabotage in both their actions that is fun to read into. Does Ren want Rey on board to get the map, or because he feels in her someone that can challenge him. Maybe he sees an ally that can challenge Stoke and with that, Ren would be free. He notices Finn having an internal conflict in the beginning, but does not tell anyone or report him.
Ren is a fascinating character if we assume he desperately wants to be saved from himself, but no one can do it. And he unconsciously sabotages himself and the First Order because he hopes someone will stop him.
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Idk at the end of the day kylo Ren seems like a easily manipulated brat. Reminds me of a book I read where a total incompetent somehow ends up as a war hero, gains power and then generally acts like a baby and executed a bunch of people.
He's just not... Villainy enough. He's basically a teenager who shops at hot topic and listens to my chemical romance, except with force powers and a light saber.
And pls if he wanted to be saved he could have you know, not done that one thing which he did near the end.
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Underrated aspect of star wars films: never seeing ad placement
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On December 23 2015 00:57 KOFgokuon wrote:
Underrated aspect of star wars films: never seeing ad placement
- Poe, are you ready?
- *drinks up a can of Red Bull* I was born ready. *puts up designer shades*
Would it be worse than Jar-Jar though? Interesting shower thought.
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On December 23 2015 00:57 ticklishmusic wrote:
Idk at the end of the day kylo Ren seems like a easily manipulated brat. Reminds me of a book I read where a total incompetent somehow ends up as a war hero, gains power and then generally acts like a baby and executed a bunch of people.
He's just not... Villainy enough. He's basically a teenager who shops at hot topic and listens to my chemical romance, except with force powers and a light saber.
And pls if he wanted to be saved he could have you know, not done that one thing which he did near the end.
Unconscious desire to be saved. Like when people do destructive things in the hopes of receiving help and treatment. My time in probation taught me that there is a reason people get black out drunk in bars, rather than their home where no one could stop them.
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On December 23 2015 00:57 ticklishmusic wrote:
And pls if he wanted to be saved he could have you know, not done that one thing which he did near the end.
But that's the whole point, he was conflicted. He wanted to be on the dark side, but the Light side's calling was tearing him apart. I believe that when he gave Han his saber, he was debating whether to surrender or kill him, and the surrender part was winning. Then, just as the sun faded out, the war within him settled, and even though the good was winning in him, it eventually lost, and so he killed his father.
It's like when a drug addict genuinly asks for help, but then turns back to his bad habit, even long into therapy. It's a continious struggle, and it is unfair to highlight one frame where he was more good, than bad. I mean, the guy was mental even when he was all alone, no surprise he is a walking atomic bomb, when he is face to face with his father.
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I don't know if i buy this "Kylo wants to be saved". He wants to be a dark side user, he thinks there is more power, Vader was one, he thinks he does the right thing (no these guys probably don't think they are 'evil')
But he struggles, he still has the light side in him, it's no easy for him.
Snoke tells him he needs to kill his father as the next step, he does so. (i am not sure if that was the end of his struggle, probably not entirely, especially after seeing Rey)
"From his POV the Jedi are evil"  and after watching the prequels i cannot even deny that ^^
At the end of the day you can interprete the stuff the way you want, but i don't really see him "wanting to be saved" tbh.
Unconscious desire to be saved
Ok maybe, but especially the 'unconscious' part makes it hard to prove if you know what i mean :D
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There is no proving, it is a way to interpret the film and his actions. The best films has multiple valid points of view on the intent and actions of the characters and none of them can be proven conclusively.
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Ofc Ren doesn't want to be saved. Look at what he says to Solo.
"I have something I must do but I don't know if I can." He asks for Solos help, who says he will do anything. Ren then kills Solo and says "Thank you. " Clearly he did what he wanted to ultimately do. Solo even seems to forgive him in the end in a way.
Ren is a very well done villian imo. His emotion in the white forest is palpable.
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Nah i agree with you. It's all interpretation at the end.
I guess we agree that 'human villain' at the beginning of his path is more interesting than another 'big evil bad guy' though.
This is exactly where JJ (and the writers) took the risk and we already see some people not liking it at all.
At the end of the day all these "it could have been more original" guys (which i am part of too tbh) can just look at this and think about it. The more you leave the old Star Wars stories conceptually the more people will also be mad about it one way or another.
Will be interesting to see what happens with Episode VIII and IX
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On December 23 2015 00:36 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2015 00:23 QuanticHawk wrote:On December 23 2015 00:16 Plansix wrote:On December 23 2015 00:03 NukeD wrote:On December 22 2015 22:53 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 15:45 malcram wrote:
Kylo is cool, when his mask is on. His face though. Perhaps it was an appropriate reflection of his childish behaviour, but to me, it was just a little bit too goofy looking. Not that he's ugly or anything, just has that goofy looking face. I think it was intentional to make him look so youthful. His character is supposed to be conflicted, have uncontrolled anger and exude loneliness and Adam Driver pulls that off. You also have to wonder if he is opposed with finding Luke because he wants to kill his master or he secretly hopes Luke can stop him. You can make similar arguments about Vader and his quest to find Luke. The actor who played him really did an excellent job. I have really felt that Kylo is disturbed on so many levels, like he really feels betrayed by everyone and is really lost in the world. You can definitelly feel that something went wrong in his life and he ended up alone and messed in the head. Great performance. However we should have a more clear villain for the E8 imo as the movie feels beheaded in that regard. Kylo should tell his own story which should be somewhere in the middle of two opposing poles which is the good (resistance) and the evil (empire). Snoke works as a behind the curtain overmind (but please less CGI) but we need a new Darth Vader. When he tells Rey “I can teach you how to use the force,” had that such an undertone of desperation to it. Like saying “Please join me, I don’t want to be alone anymore.” That character was everything Anakin should have been. yup! noticed that too, he seems really alone but loves the power Its amazing how much better it is when the villains are humans with emotions/desires and not perfect robot killing machines powered by malice.
The villains are just bad in this movie sorry ...
When Ren took his mask of, people in the cinema started laughing and the only emotion he showed was "bat shit crazy".
The supreme leader is just fresh out of some harry potter movie and don't get me started on the 25 year old red head who commands a battlestation that took perhaps millions of people to build and run ?
Also, Snoke ... is this like Snape from Harry Potter, no snape is Ren at least he looks like him but then ... forget it its just crappy villains ....
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
I dunno, I like the new villains. There's no pleasing everyone when expectations for this movie are as high as they are.
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On December 23 2015 02:25 Holy_AT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2015 00:36 Plansix wrote:On December 23 2015 00:23 QuanticHawk wrote:On December 23 2015 00:16 Plansix wrote:On December 23 2015 00:03 NukeD wrote:On December 22 2015 22:53 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 15:45 malcram wrote:
Kylo is cool, when his mask is on. His face though. Perhaps it was an appropriate reflection of his childish behaviour, but to me, it was just a little bit too goofy looking. Not that he's ugly or anything, just has that goofy looking face. I think it was intentional to make him look so youthful. His character is supposed to be conflicted, have uncontrolled anger and exude loneliness and Adam Driver pulls that off. You also have to wonder if he is opposed with finding Luke because he wants to kill his master or he secretly hopes Luke can stop him. You can make similar arguments about Vader and his quest to find Luke. The actor who played him really did an excellent job. I have really felt that Kylo is disturbed on so many levels, like he really feels betrayed by everyone and is really lost in the world. You can definitelly feel that something went wrong in his life and he ended up alone and messed in the head. Great performance. However we should have a more clear villain for the E8 imo as the movie feels beheaded in that regard. Kylo should tell his own story which should be somewhere in the middle of two opposing poles which is the good (resistance) and the evil (empire). Snoke works as a behind the curtain overmind (but please less CGI) but we need a new Darth Vader. When he tells Rey “I can teach you how to use the force,” had that such an undertone of desperation to it. Like saying “Please join me, I don’t want to be alone anymore.” That character was everything Anakin should have been. yup! noticed that too, he seems really alone but loves the power Its amazing how much better it is when the villains are humans with emotions/desires and not perfect robot killing machines powered by malice. The villains are just bad in this movie sorry ... When Ren took his mask of, people in the cinema started laughing and the only emotion he showed was "bat shit crazy". The supreme leader is just fresh out of some harry potter movie and don't get me started on the 25 year old red head who commands a battlestation that took perhaps millions of people to build and run ? Also, Snoke ... is this like Snape from Harry Potter, no snape is Ren at least he looks like him but then ... forget it its just crappy villains ....
So a villain who is unstable = bad villain? What's a good villain then? xXxDestroyer_Of_LifexXx "I am literally Hitler"?
Imo with Kylo you can see someone becoming the big bad guy, and it's great. We already had Vader once shoved into our faces as "he's very strong and evil, hurr-durr", and Darth Maul being just your regular crazy, silent, ugly dude.
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On December 23 2015 02:25 Holy_AT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2015 00:36 Plansix wrote:On December 23 2015 00:23 QuanticHawk wrote:On December 23 2015 00:16 Plansix wrote:On December 23 2015 00:03 NukeD wrote:On December 22 2015 22:53 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2015 15:45 malcram wrote:
Kylo is cool, when his mask is on. His face though. Perhaps it was an appropriate reflection of his childish behaviour, but to me, it was just a little bit too goofy looking. Not that he's ugly or anything, just has that goofy looking face. I think it was intentional to make him look so youthful. His character is supposed to be conflicted, have uncontrolled anger and exude loneliness and Adam Driver pulls that off. You also have to wonder if he is opposed with finding Luke because he wants to kill his master or he secretly hopes Luke can stop him. You can make similar arguments about Vader and his quest to find Luke. The actor who played him really did an excellent job. I have really felt that Kylo is disturbed on so many levels, like he really feels betrayed by everyone and is really lost in the world. You can definitelly feel that something went wrong in his life and he ended up alone and messed in the head. Great performance. However we should have a more clear villain for the E8 imo as the movie feels beheaded in that regard. Kylo should tell his own story which should be somewhere in the middle of two opposing poles which is the good (resistance) and the evil (empire). Snoke works as a behind the curtain overmind (but please less CGI) but we need a new Darth Vader. When he tells Rey “I can teach you how to use the force,” had that such an undertone of desperation to it. Like saying “Please join me, I don’t want to be alone anymore.” That character was everything Anakin should have been. yup! noticed that too, he seems really alone but loves the power Its amazing how much better it is when the villains are humans with emotions/desires and not perfect robot killing machines powered by malice. The villains are just bad in this movie sorry ... When Ren took his mask of, people in the cinema started laughing and the only emotion he showed was "bat shit crazy". The supreme leader is just fresh out of some harry potter movie and don't get me started on the 25 year old red head who commands a battlestation that took perhaps millions of people to build and run ? Also, Snoke ... is this like Snape from Harry Potter, no snape is Ren at least he looks like him but then ... forget it its just crappy villains ....
I find none of these arguments even remotely compelling to why the villains are bad, so no need to apologize.
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Kylo Ren is a lot like what Anakin should have been in the prequels. He is a young guy with a lot of raw power but he has been mislead down a darker path. He's a tool being used by Snoke (who better to corrupt than the son of the leader of the resistance) and isn't the man with the plan. He would be a way less interesting person if he was totally competent, completely trained and totally in control. I don't think it is a mistake that he looks a bit nerdy and out of his depth with his mask off.
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EPT
