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Watched it a second time. Less bugged by the stuff that bothered me the first time. Maybe just need to get used to the new way of doing things.
The Finn vs. Ren fight made more sense too. I still think Finn is a little force sensitive, but either way he was tapping into his anger in a really powerful way. That said, Ren was firmly in control of that fight the entire time. Clearly toying with him, one-handing it casually (rather than aggressively, as Rey does). Compare to the beginning of the Ep V fight where Vader does a toying kind of fighting until Luke starts figuring out this whole saber fighting thing. Sure Ren takes a hit, but only out of silly overconfidence.
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
Main problem I see is how unimpressive the villains are, and how utterly impressive Rey is. Of course, her weakness is a bunch of dark-side urges just below the surface. I really hope next movie she falls to the dark side. She would make a badass villain.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Well we never even saw the Supreme Leader in action. All we saw is a Nazi general and a Dark Jedi apprentice who have overwhelming raw strength but also have a tendency to be reckless in using it.
On December 21 2015 15:43 Jibba wrote:
It's interesting that people are levying Star Trek-level scrutiny on Star Wars. Is it because of JJ Abrams? It was extremely entertaining, albeit a bit unoriginal, but Wars has always been space opera over sci fi. I pretty much expect things to happen for drama's sake, rather than actually making sense.
The Star Wars universe seems perfect for him because it's not bound in logic the way Star Trek is (or was generally supposed to be).
Unfortunately Star Trek style nitpicking is the norm these days. But there's no escaping the fact that Ep 7 has a legacy to uphold and baggage to consider that Ep 4 never did.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
What is awkward I suppose is that Ren is sort of a ''sith'' and they are usually portrayed as incredibly powerfull, cunnning and sinister. But Ren isn't actually that, he is an incomplete sith or something like that who struggles with who he is. The movie suffers a bit from having no true villain. There is the great leader whatever figure but he is basicaly a hologram at this point(and I am not even sure he "'truly" exists haha tinfoil hat on). We have seen troubled Jedi many times, we haven't seen troubled Sith.
So that makes it feel like there arent any real villains really present at the moment, atleast not competent ones.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Now that I know what actually happened, I think they should really have stretched out the firing scene for Starkiller base and showed how the Republic and its fleet perish in the blast. They did explicitly say "this weapon will destroy the Republic and its fleet" but I don't think I was the only person who didn't take that comment as literally as it was meant to be taken.
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On December 21 2015 16:00 Kipsate wrote:
What is awkward I suppose is that Ren is sort of a ''sith'' and they are usually portrayed as incredibly powerfull, cunnning and sinister. But Ren isn't actually that, he is an incomplete sith or something like that who struggles with who he is. The movie suffers a bit from having no true villain. There is the great leader whatever figure but he is basicaly a hologram at this point(and I am not even sure he "'truly" exists haha tinfoil hat on). We have seen troubled Jedi many times, we haven't seen troubled Sith.
So that makes it feel like there arent any real villains really present at the moment, atleast not competent ones.
He isn't a sith, at least not yet. It's pretty clear that he's in the beginning stages of his own training. It's what's so interesting about the character. There has rarely been a villain with so much indecision/inner conflict/depth
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On December 21 2015 09:23 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 07:02 Manit0u wrote:
And about Mara Jade, as I mentioned already, they showed her in the Rebels as a child (episode titled The Future of the Force specifically). Rebels is canon now according to Disney. Might not turn out the way she did in EU, but she's there. Ok, I watched it and I think you mean the red-headed human female baby. The Rebels baby is honestly too young to be Mara though. She'd be about as old as the youth in Rebels, i.e. about Luke's age. Personally I think she'd fit well into the story and it'd be a good idea to add her in. We'll see though.
Yes, that's the baby I was referring to. Her grandmother calls her "Mara" so I assume she's Mara Jade. It would make her younger than the original one (by 12 years more or less). This would still make her around 40 at the time of ep VII. Let's just say for the sake of argument that she had Rey when she was around 20 and left her on Jakku for some yet unspecified reason.
But that's just one of my theories. They could also make Rey a bit like Ezra Bridger, who was force sensitive even though his parents weren't. Their pasts are pretty similar though, she was a scavenger, he was a thief. Both of them are waiting for the parents that won't show up. Both end up among the rebels. They might reveal some more about her parents, although it took them 2 TV show seasons to provide any definitive info on Ezra's mom and dad.
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I think of myself as having extremelly high criteria for a Star Wars movie but I loved the movie. I haven't had any problems with some of the things you guys did.
+ Show Spoiler +I also loved that pilot character, forgot his name. He is an excellent replacement for a roguesque character Han Solo was. Finn was a little whiny, Rey's acting was unconvincing a lot of times for me, but overall I like them as faces of the new SW movies. Snoke's design was really underwhelming for me, obvious CGI, generic warped face villain. That Yoda character was also a bit too much CGI, non original design with simple face features. Kylo Ren is okay.
Biggest grip with the movie for me is how the whole ending battle was rushed. It all happens in a really short timespan. It could have used a lot more fodder shots with the character interaction during the setup for the battle and during the battle itself. The air battle was done very confusing. In the OT you had a very clear picture where the ships were flying, their priorities for battle etc, where im this movie it feels a bit like a clusterfk.
The stupidest thing however is when they go at lightspeed to the surface of the planet and the timing when they pull out of lightspeed is Han Solo saying "now". I mean it's lightspeed. You'd have to pull out of it at a 0,00000001 second precise time and a human couldn't possibly pull this of or build a strategy around this.
Overall 8,3/10.
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I liked the movie a lot. I have no idea about anything from the New Republic Era EU, seemed sacrilegious to me to continue after the end of episode 6. Like, who do these 2nd rate authors think they are writing about Luke fucking Skywalker. I've always been a fan of the other EU material though. Why is Mara Jade so important?
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On December 21 2015 18:48 MattBarry wrote:
Why is Mara Jade so important?
I wonder that too. She seems like a lame character after a quick Google search.
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On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance.
The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village.
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Just saw it in theaters. Overall I liked it, I think I would have preferred it if they had continued the story instead of remaking the original movie, but I guess after 40 years it was due for a remake with actual up to date special effects and so on. The only clear downgrade was the new vader character but noone was ever going to match the original anyway so whatever.
I forgot how much I loved the music, omg so happy they let so much of it be the same. Also all the goosbumps when they first heard those Tie-Fighters flying in, sounds can really be quite nostalgia inducing
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On December 21 2015 19:00 Coppermantis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 15:50 Yoav wrote:
Interesting that "The Republic" is used in this continuity to basically mean "the Republic central government" rather than "the contents of the political union." On second viewing I caught the Rebel fleet being vaporized. Very sad for Mon Calamari. Was the Alien starfighter pilot a Mon Cal?
I'm guessing that wasn't the entire rebel fleet. Why would every ship be based in a single system? Could have been a major base, like the Republic's equivalent of Pearl Harbor, but it seems unlikely that taking out a single system would even kill the bulk of the fleet. Just the part of it close enough to help the resistance. The rebel pilot wasn't a Mon Cal. I think he was the same species as the alien who was seen with a gun to his head in the first scene at the village.
Seems pretty silly to me to declare war on the republic when they can barely handle rebellion inside their own territory. They didn't just declare a war really, they made sure it's total war. Not a single sane politician in the republic is gonna oppose a total war on the first order after a ruthless attack on civilians
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After the travesty that was the hobbit movies I came with low expectations but was very satisfied with what I saw. It wasn't perfect but all in all it was well balanced and had a lot of good moments.
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On December 21 2015 18:56 NukeD wrote:I wonder that too. She seems like a lame character after a quick Google search.
Some people suggested that Luke might be Rey's father. Mara Jade was Luke's wife.
You can read more on it here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mara_Jade_Skywalker
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The film was carried by the awesome actors they chose for the "young" roles. Everything done right there. Minus points for the fat death star, overblown. Minus points for it not feeling as super quirky and vivid as the OT with Lucas in charge - Abrams just has another thumbprint, more clean, more dissectable, more sterile (he did really good though on this one). And I didn't like the location nor the style of the shady headhunter bar at all - in some old ruins looking like a Scottish castle? I felt that could have been Harry Potter.
Apart from that, purely the entertainment value and overall feeling and not too many questions asked about political background etc. etc. I think it came out really good. Abrams should also do the other parts since it clearly worked and he seems like a reliable director. (I could also have imagined the director of Guardians of the Galaxy or Joss Whedon, but James Gunn has only had one big hit so far and Joss Whedon disappointed with his second Avengers movie)
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If anything there might be a slight call back, since Rey's mother isn't around in the films. The woman many have red hair, but it is pretty clear that the movies are breaking from the EU in almost every way.
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are we done with spoiler tags now? lol
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On December 21 2015 21:09 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 18:56 NukeD wrote:On December 21 2015 18:48 MattBarry wrote:
Why is Mara Jade so important? I wonder that too. She seems like a lame character after a quick Google search. Some people suggested that Luke might be Rey's father. Mara Jade was Luke's wife. You can read more on it here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mara_Jade_Skywalker
that's not considered canon though.
i believe the only things considered canon are the kotor games and the 7 films.
edit: read the rest of the thread. Rebels is considered canon? lol, didn't know that, where's the official word on it?
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On December 21 2015 21:26 KOFgokuon wrote:
are we done with spoiler tags now? lol
+ Show Spoiler +
On December 21 2015 22:00 malcram wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 21:09 Manit0u wrote:On December 21 2015 18:56 NukeD wrote:On December 21 2015 18:48 MattBarry wrote:
Why is Mara Jade so important? I wonder that too. She seems like a lame character after a quick Google search. Some people suggested that Luke might be Rey's father. Mara Jade was Luke's wife. You can read more on it here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mara_Jade_Skywalker that's not considered canon though. i believe the only things considered canon are the kotor games and the 7 films.
The only things considered cannon are the 7 films, the Clone wars movie, and the two animated series (Clone wars and Rebels) and specific novels.
On April 25, 2014, after a year of ownership by the Walt Disney Company, a StarWars.com press release confirmed that the films of the sequel trilogy would not adhere to the post–Return of the Jedi Expanded Universe,[10] with further comments from LucasBooks Senior Editor Jennifer Heddle confirming that the EU as a whole is no longer considered canon. The EU has been re-termed "Legends," with related publications remaining in print under that banner.
Since then, the only previously published material still considered canon are the six original trilogy/prequel trilogy films and the Star Wars: The Clone Wars television series and film. Most material published after April 25—such as the Star Wars Rebels TV series and all novels beginning with A New Dawn—is also considered part of the new canon, on account of the creation of the Lucasfilm Story Group, which currently oversees continuity as a whole. Characters under the Legends banner are still available for use as needed, even if events concerning them are no longer canon. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon (Under 2014 reboot)
More information here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Canon_policy
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On December 21 2015 13:04 LegalLord wrote:By the way, reading the wiki shows that while it wasn't Coruscant that was destroyed, it might as well have been: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hosnian_systemThe Starkiller base destroyed the Hosnian system, which was the star system that was the capital of the New Republic (and also contained the bulk of its military capabilities). So that attack alone was pretty significant.
Yeah that is what I am saying! The movie did not significantly play up what happened. That move essentially decapitated the Republic Army, leaving only the Resistance.
That whole arc is over and done with so goddamn fast, the chars hardly react to a genocide 5x the size of the one in the first movie, and it will have lasting effects in the next two. Laaaaameeeee
On December 21 2015 13:25 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 13:15 Emnjay808 wrote:
Also can someone TLDR me why the stormtroopers weren't clones? Was there a reason behind this or did they just want to try mix it up with their armies?? It's been well-known for a long time that imperial stormtroopers are conscripts rather than clones. Ren briefly chastises his military leaders for not using clones though, so it seems that both are in use at this period in time.
I wouldn't say well known. The movie canon up until this point was all clones. This is only a change that happened with the new movie, which is why when the trailer first hit and everyone say a black Stormtrooper, everyone was like WTF, and non-nerds thought nerds are racist
On December 21 2015 15:44 Kipsate wrote:
I love how simple the lightsaber choreo was because it reflects that both participants are not fully trained (or in Ren's case not capeable) of fighting properly yet. Its also why I really like Ren's lightsaber design because it reflects who he is.
2 DEEP 4 ME.
Rylo is basically what Anikin was supposed to be in the prequels. It's amazing that with a fraction of the screen time he better conveyed the massive power contained in his still very child like mind, right down to the temper tantrums and being a petulant little shit.
also ffs people it's a goddamn thread about the movie, anyone who stolls in here and didnt see it deserves to have the fucking movie spoiled for being so goddamn dumb
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