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On August 19 2014 09:43 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 06:40 lpunatic wrote:
I dramatically underestimated Ulm's magic, which basically lost me the war in one big fight. I think I could have gone much further saccing a fort and pushing into Ulm's territory while avoiding that big fight, but I think I still would have lost in the end because I was having a lot of trouble massing units. I had a force that was highly effective in small to medium engagements but a bit weak in big ones. Ulm made better use of his mages than me - I had tons of 1D mages that I just didn't know what to do with, and my flying raiding parties weren't strong enough and died too often.
I also think a big mistake was accepting a peace offer with Icapica and going after Ermor. It left me diplomatically isolated and meant my forces were committed to war for a few turns longer, which was part of the problem when Ulm attacked. Tien Chi S&A late game has very good battlefield wide evo's that are incredibly hard to defend against. Boosters/Empowers are things you shouldn't be too stingy on with them. D1's are great ghost grip spammers but also you want master of the ways to assist with summoning vitrols/water demons, etc. You had lizards so communions are probably the best mid game scenario. You actually have the stronger late game due to how much gems EA TC gets thanks to it's site searching and the fact that their sacreds scale as one of the best late game sacreds. IMO your main issue was committing to a bad fight from the looks of it because you basically just got outmaged which is what mid game fights mostly come down to. You also had very little archers that fight for EA TC especially since EA TC is an archer nation. Wind guide + Flaming arrows + 100 archers would've made a really big difference that fight for obvious reasons.
I don't think he expected to get outmaged, since half of my mages (or more) moved in from two provinces away the turn of combat, to be fair.
Yeah, I knew I couldn't compete with TC once those communioned-up huge spells came out, along with his national summons -- that sort of dictated the timing of my attack, really. There were a bunch of flaming arrows'd archers elsewhere; the big battle took place at the province that's Bogarus's capital in TL3, but we had a few other battles a few provinces to the east (along the mountain range) at about the same time, and in one of them I got mangled by those flaming composite bow archers.
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I absolutely agree about committing to a bad fight. I had some archers, but only about half as many as Ulm, so I thought I might be better off sending them elsewhere and throwing up a storm (which might also have helped against blade wind?); unfortunately, my A2 Mot5E didn't cast storm, so that didn't work out.
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On August 19 2014 13:33 lpunatic wrote:
I absolutely agree about committing to a bad fight. I had some archers, but only about half as many as Ulm, so I thought I might be better off sending them elsewhere and throwing up a storm (which might also have helped against blade wind?); unfortunately, my A2 Mot5E didn't cast storm, so that didn't work out.
Your archers could outshoot mine, all other things equal -- you've got better bows and better armor. I was sort of expecting to lose the archery battle without magical help.
Did you ever figure out what happened to your storm guy? I know some of your mages got caught in an early archery volley, but I don't remember if one of them had air gems. That might have swung the battle, especially if you had stormpower etc. scripted afterwards.
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His boss didn't read the rulebook.
"However, a mage may never increase his skill level by more than one by using gems"
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I warned you guys Ulm was getting 4 forts for free in like the second year right ?
WHY DIDN'T YOU LISTEN 
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We listened but I guess I felt I was busy with something else. Anyway, I prioritized things really poorly all game long. I should have just let TC take the province we fought about and avoided a war with him but I wasn't quite aware of just how good are his sacred troops. But even despite that I should have avoided the conflict as the province was much closer to his cap than mine and he would have been able to bring more reinforcements easier. Instead of that I should have joined Ulm in the war against Mictlan as I think I had pretty decent magic against him and it's always better to fight two against one than one against one. I'd have gotten at least one more fort that way and Ulm wouldn't have become quite as big. But no, I held to this stupid idea that the islands are mine. Pride only hurts in games like this.
There were plenty of other, smaller lessons too. At certain key moments my scouting was so poor that I had really no idea what was happening around me and missed several great opportunities. In addition to that, after I got flaming arrows I didn't anymore know what to research so I should have spent more time looking at the spells I could cast and thinking about what could best help me. Anyway, I guess it wasn't totally awful for a first game.
Edit - Great, the graphs are here. That's quite a massive difference in gem income and research.
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You could see exactly where my downfall happened. :D
In review, my poor position this game came from a soddy expansion phase. If I had been able to expand properly, my early position would've been much stronger and potentially left me with more options than rushing Yomi in an effort to shore up my income/prov count.
Also, my disciples game has finished this turn.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tku7xxf7ordunn5/AACadQcTR4AWMvDekkfjTArsa?m=
For graphs if you are all interested at how the game went.
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I got a rather nasty lesson on how good TC sacreds are rather early, when an expansion party of his bumped into mine and wiped it out. To be fair he had a major bless for them, so I'd expect them to be pretty murderous.
You could have joined in against Mictlan, or joined Mictlan against me, actually -- I was expecting that to be a lot harder than it was, as I didn't appreciate how far behind he was on research. I had pulled scouts down to Mictlan's land and hadn't realized that you'd expanded up to my border (in the north, near the fortress you attacked) until a big stack of yours materialized next to my building fort with one turn to go. I was able to convince you I was friendly (and I was, since I was worried about Mictlan and saw you as a potential ally). Hitting me then would have hurt (a lot), and a doubleteam from you and Mictlan would have been a mess. (Of course, then TC would have wrecked your southern border...)
I'm surprised to see Yomi as research #2; I figured it would be Sauro or TC. Did all those Hannyas have Lightless Lanterns? I did have a big pile of owl quills and lightless lanterns, which helped keep my research going despite pulling mages for war. (All the air gems I kept trading for went into owl quills, although my air income was stubbornly low all game.)
Someone in the skype group asked for the scoregraphs; here they are. I'll type up a longer AAR later.
+ Show Spoiler +The legend is hard to read, but it's: Red = T'ien Ch'i (Ipunatic), W9S6 Celestial Carp, order3 sloth1 cold3 magic1 Won war with Machaka mid-early, won war with Ermor mid, lost war with Ulm + a bit of Machaka mid-late Orange = Machaka (Icapica), not sure on pretender, order3 prod1 heat3 growth3 misf1 Lost war with TC mid-early, won war with TC mid-late Grey = Yomi (Sunaj), awake S4A4E4 Celestial General, turm3 sloth3 growth3 luck3 magic3 Stalemate with Ermor midgame Brown = Sauro (mahrgell), A6 E4 x4 (I think) Titan of Heaven, turm1 sloth1 luck3 magic3 Won long-ish war with C'tis from early Yellow = C'tis (Shloober), no-bless Neter of the Moon, order2 prod3 luck2 magic2 Lost war with Sauro starting early Purple = Ermor (Tolkien), S6D3 Sphinx, order3 growth3 magic3 Stalemate with Yomi midgame; lost war to TC mid-late Green = Mictlan (HeatEXTEND), F9B4D4 Smoking Mirror, order3 sloth3 growth3 heat2 (I think) Lost war with Ulm midgame Blue = Ulm (entropius), F4A4E4S4 Tiwaz of War, order3 sloth1 cold1 growth2 misf1 Won war with Mictlan midgame, won war with TC mid-late, won war with everyone late ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/n1qUemS.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jaQu85A.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Cw8QSue.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/K4QEWlE.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UivqMjf.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xL9CZ7b.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Z11Umzx.jpg)
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XD Maybe those graphs need to be spoilered. It's HUGE.
BTW as a tip for Tien Chi S&A. You should be going heat3 instead of cold 3. It assists your demon of fires. Powerhouses such as Niefel/Helheim will benefit from the cold3 dominion.Your fire evo and flaming arrows will also be helped by the heat3. Finally if you ever want the expensive f9w9 bless for your sacreds, it's quite potent  .
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Reminder, TL4 is still recruiting!
I'll also sign up tentatively since my disciples is done: won't choose until everyone else gets first pick.
Skirm: Eriu
gTank: ??? (I believe Jotun but just in case?)
Shloober: Ulm
mahrgell: Abysia
Icapica: Marignon
Ipunatic: Bandar Log
Lord Tolkien: ???
I believe Sunaj and Entropius are also considering signing up,
so we are currently at 9 (!!) players. We still have 3-6 open slots for everyone else, get em while they're available.
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Graphs fixed, sorry.
Yeah, I was wondering about the cold3; actually, it makes me think I should have taken cold 3 too, since Ulm likes it chilly.
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If the game starts after the 26th, I can sign up. I could try out Vanheim (or MA Caelum ! °o°). Not sure about other nation choices.
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Yeah I will settle for Jotunheim then.
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I'll sign up for TL4, Pangaea please.
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On August 20 2014 16:32 scFoX wrote:
If the game starts after the 26th, I can sign up. I could try out Vanheim (or MA Caelum ! °o°). Not sure about other nation choices.
It presently looks like that will be the case, so I'll sign you up for now.
For now, I will say:
Skirm: Eriu
gTank: Jotunheim
Shloober: Ulm
mahrgell: Abysia
Icapica: Marignon
Ipunatic: Bandar Log
scFoX: Vanheim (or Caelum?)
Zhang Mayi: Pangaea
Lord Tolkien: ???
Filled up once we hit 12-14 players, so we're getting there soon (with a +2 on their way).
EDIT: Also, you gaiz took muh ponymans. no tryhard 4 me I guess.
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Sunaj and I are playing too, but are not sure about nations.
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I've played on the TL4 map against AI now for a while and I've noticed that some provinces are considered adjacent even though they're clearly not supposed to be. First thing I saw was that 45 and 39 are neighbors even though there's one province between them. But that's not the biggest problem.
Link to a screenshot
That throne province on the left is for some reason considered to be adjacent to the selected province on the right.
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Already fixed that. It'll be fixed in the "final" version of the map.
Final notes on the TL4 game: I will be closing recruitment for it this Monday, and will be hosting the game on llamaserver at that time. I'll also be releasing the final version of the "Liquidia" map with fixed starts for this game at that time (if you want to view the starts, look at the map with the Map Editor tool; you should also be able to see those preset throne provinces with the "many sites" tag, as well as some of the "known" sites which were RNG'd on).
Why then? So I know exactly how many starts to put in for BALANCE. :3
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Because of Hi all, I am on holiday this week in Cornwall, a part of England where there is virtually no phone reception at all. I've just driven to a relatively big town to check emails and it seems that the llamaserver is down (as always happens when I go away!). My best guess is that one of my housemates accidentally unplugged it (I haven't completed the transfer to a hosted server yet).
I've texted my most reliable housemate to ask him to turn it back on, so hopefully service will be resumed this evening when he gets back from work. If not it will be Saturday, when I get back to Cambridge.
Many apologies to everyone for this! Also if someone could please repost this to Desura that would be much appreciated.
I postponed TLG3 by 24 hours. Sadly even admin commands are not processed, so I HOPE it gets through before the server assumes everyone having staled...
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EPT
