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Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension

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Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-16 04:50:51
October 11 2013 06:14 GMT
#1
Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension


[image loading]
Cthulhu vs Spanish Inquisition vs Zombie Jesus vs Nudist Cannibal Giant vs Chimpanzees vs Undead Romans. Dominions in a nutshell. (courtesy of the SA Community)


Alternately, for a more...4chan take on the game:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Table of Contents

1. Synopsis
2. Game Information
3. Lore
4. Gameplay
5. Multiplayer
6. Strategy
7. Newbie Tips
8. Additional Information
9. TL Players

(spoilers for ease of navigation)

Synposis


+ Show Spoiler +
While there are many ways to describe the Dominions series, I believe the synopsis can best be served by the introductory message presented at the start of every game.

In the beginning, there was Chaos.

Out of Chaos rose worlds populated with multitudes of beings. Wars were fought, kinds and emperors rose and fell and civilizations were built and crumbled as millennia passed. Gods, dark and strange, were worshiped in pagan temples. Still there was Chaos. The gods fought among themselves, brining even greater ruin to those who would serve them. At last there was One, a being of great power and enlightenment, who rose above His immortal peers and cast them out of the Heavens into Oblivion. From Chaos came Order, and with Order came peace, and the creatures of the world flourished. The Age of Chaos had ended.

Now the Wheel has turned once again.

The Supreme God has suddenly disappeared. Prayers are left unanswered and the smoke of offerings rises in vain to the heavens. No one knows why he disappeared, but it is certain that the people of the worlds are once again left without direction, without guiding principle, without order. Now is the time for beings of great power and ambition to try their strength. The Throne of Heaven stands empty and only the strongest can rise to supremacy over all. Only the most powerful can ascend to take the place of He Who Came Before. This is a time of great strife and suffering. This is a time of magic unequaled. This is – The Ascension Wars!


In short, the previous supreme being of power has suddenly disappeared, leaving the nations of the world without their God. Enterprising and ambitious individual that you are, you have taken on the mantle of a pretender god seeking to become God (with a capital G), leading a nation of faithful adherents. The problem is: there are pretentious charlatans seeking to become God themselves. This cannot stand, for in the end there will be only one left. Thus, you are to wage holy war against your enemies to ascend to the throne of ultimate godhood. Let the crusading begin, for the path to ascension is paved in blood. Blood and Magic. Blood, magic, and fanatically devoted followers. Or heck, fanatically devoted followers practicing blood magic through the industrial scale sacrifice of virgins to bind the Lords of Hell to your will.

[image loading]
Fear the power of the face crotch.



Game Information


+ Show Spoiler +
For those new to the Dominions series (and many probably are), it is probably the gold standard of Fantasy 4X/Grand Strategy game, which (as a devoted fan since Dominions 2) doesn’t get nearly the amount of exposure that it should (hamstrung by less flashy/indy graphics, the initial learning hump, and being shackled to the terrible and outdated distribution model espoused by their previous distributor Shrapnel Games up until recently), outside of strategy/wargame game grognards.

Beyond the extremely rich lore that the series has developed over the decade (which will be covered in the following section), the mechanics and particularly magic system provides on of the most complex and deep experiences that you will find. For reference, there are currently over 2000 different units, gods, commanders, mages, summons, and monsters in the base game, over 300 forgeable magic items (and many unique artifacts), and 800 different magic spells.

The game is also extremely moddable, all told; you can change nations, units, commanders, and spells, or add entirely new ones fairly readily. Moreover, for most modding purposes, all you need are a notepad, the modding manual, and maybe Paint (or some other tool to make pixel sprites).


Lore and Mythology


+ Show Spoiler +
The lore and mythology of the Dominions series is an extremely rich and diverse one. The game derives much of its lore, units, histories, and mythologies from historical mythological systems. For instance, the three eras of T’ien Ch’i’s history present in the game are titled Spring and Autumn, Imperial Bureaucracy, and Barbarian Kings, each clearing corresponding to pivotal periods and tropes in Chinese history. Additionally, the lore, summons, and magic systems are thoroughly embellished with traditional Chinese folklore, and a healthy of Daoist, Confucian, and Buddhist thoughts, and ancestor worship (which is more pronounced in the Early and Late eras). Most nations have similar historical inspiration: Mictlan draws strongly from Mesoamerica, early Irish myths are represented in the Tuatha/Fir Bolg Tir’Na’Nog and Fomoria, Norse myths of the Vanir and Jotun are respectively in the nations of Vanheim/Helheim and Niefelheim, while Ermor and Berytos draw STRONG parallels with Rome and Carthage/Tyr. Hindi myths of Rakshasa, Yakshas, and Nagas are all presented with the monkey nations of Lanka, Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala. And so on.

[image loading]
Little known fact about Elrond: he loved sacrificing humans to the Valar


There are of course nations without any direct historical counterpart or mythological elements, and thus draw from eclectic fantasy and mythological elements (Caelum comes to mind, as a race of winged humanoid magocracy living in high mountains located near T’ien Ch’i, though drawing heavily on Zoroastrian elements such as the Yazatas), or nations with heavy Lovecraftian elements (R’lyeh and Atlantis specifically, though LA Atlantis has a distinctly Inuit flavor to it). Nonetheless, without going through all the national lores and timelines, I think it would be safe to say that the lore of Dominions is extremely rich and diverse. This is not including the magical inspirations, from the various elementals, summons, undead, and demons you can summon. And then there are the Horrors and Doom Horrors. And there are also more standard fantasy tropes and homages, like vampires, werewolves, gnomes (whom by the way, shrink people by slapping them [hilarious]), hoburgs (and Frodo Boggit, the Hoburg Champion), dragons (of both western and eastern varieties), and so on.

There are two major timeline elements, from the fall and corruption of Ermor into an empire of the undead after unleashing Death Itself (and the array of nations and splinter provinces opposing it through various means, up to and including making pacts with infernal powers), which repeats itself with the opening of the Soul Gates by the Scelerian thaumaturgs, and the underwater nations, seeing the war between the Triton Kingdoms against the Deep Ones of Atlantis and the Arboleths of R’lyeh the fall of the Star, and the destruction of the deep Basalt Cities of Atlantis and R’lyeh (and its refounding), and the rise of the Starspawn (and spreading madness of the Void).

And there are easter eggs (there is an event that gives you a madman prophet, wielding a trout for a weapon, and the developers DnD party makes appearances in several events, even going so far as invading one of your provinces). It’s the small quirks and labors of love (for instance, Arco’s Heart Companions, whom are Theban Sacred Band analogues, being immune to seduction attempts from the opposite sex) that make it the game that it is.

[image loading]
Vampire Prophet-Hero slaughtering army of Byzantines. Still a better lovestory than Twilight.


Gameplay


+ Show Spoiler +
Turns take place on a 2D Risk-esque map and wargame strategic movement (terrain effects strategic movement, roads can be built in fortress provinces to facilitate movement in forest provinces). Orders are submitted by all nations per turn and resolved simultaneously, while battles are resolved through pre-battle scripting and then through AI (Commanders and Mages get 5 turns of scripting before being given general orders, troops can be given formations and general orders [unless they are undisciplined], and armies are arranged pre-battle). Faith and Dominion is spread by the construction of temples, by preaching from priests and inquisitors (or lowered by heretics), with your dominion’s benefits (and consequences) are designed pre-game (and also modified by Thrones of Ascensions). And you can confer blessings to your nation's sacred units (give them flaming weapons of death and decay).

[image loading]
One of the lovingly crafted maps of Dominions


However, the most important part of the gameplay system is the magic. Ultimately, the path to godhood lies in magic, and boy can you throw down some nasty magic. From binding Demon Lords and undead Titans to literally plunging the world into Darkness (or enslaving entire enemy Armies), the magic you have access to make this a crummy time to live in for the average joe.

There are 8 paths of magic (Fire, Air, Water, Earth, Astral, Nature, Death, and Blood), in addition to Holy/Unholy magic (representing religious authority). Mages have various levels and paths, and spells are accessed by research conducted by mages into the 7 Schools of Magic (Conjuration, Alteration, Evocation, Construction, Enchantment, Thaumaturgy, and Blood), with each research level unlocking new spells. The names of the schools give you a general idea what you research for: construction provides more powerful magic items and artifacts, and makes various constructs available. Evocation provides battlefield spells (like fireballs and LIGHTNING BOLTS), and Conjuration summons new units (from forest animals to literal incarnations of the elements). The depth that the magic system cannot be understated; facing an army of beings born of lava? Why not make it Rain.

[image loading]
Water mages be makin' it rain, literally


Again, I have to stress the possibilities that the system gives you. For instance, the endgame Astral Magic Spell, Wish, allows you to wish for almost anything, based on the keywords entered (everything from specific units and items to Armageddon to Death [yes, that kind of death: why you spent all those pearls for that I don’t know, but hey, more power to you; which is also incidentally a wish]).

In short, the gameplay has most everything you could want from a fantasy setting. Do you want to play as the Spanish Inquisition (no one expects that)? Blood sacrificing Aztec analogues? Egyptian lizard-men calling forth hordes of the dead, while opponents with preternatural dread, and despair? Greco-fantasy halfmen attracting unending hordes of crazed, (blood)lusty women? Fking Cthulhu, and the nightmare city of R'lyeh (what is dead may never die~)? Then try out Dominions 4.


Multiplayer


+ Show Spoiler +
Multiplayer is similarly one of the focal features of the game, as opposed to Solo Play. MP is where the depth of the gameplay can truly be appreciated. Largely carried out via PBEM, turns are sent in at player leisure at a fairly brisk pace (24-48/72hrs to submit depending on how long the game has lasted. As of yet, several communities such as SA run their own private servers, while the most popular MP server is the PBEM llamaserver.net.

Diplomacy in multiplayer ranges from the most Machiavellian to the formal (depending on house rules), though trade agreements are considered sacred. Recall, after all, that there can only be one winner of an MP game (unless it’s a Disciple/Team game) and One True God.

The TL community will be hosting in-house MP games on a fairly frequent basis. Recruitment will be announced in this thread, so check often. ^_^


Strategy

+ Show Spoiler +

EA Tier List
MA Tier List
LA Tier List
Magic Cross-Paths


Newbie Tips


+ Show Spoiler +
For those new to the Dominions series, there are several recommendations that can be made:
1) Read the manual! It’s an invaluable reference and gameplay tool, and has neat
2) The Tutorial included in the manual will walk you through the basics.
3) In general, I would not recommend the following nations as a learning experience for a new player:
  • MA Ermor/Lemuria/LA R’lyeh/Asphodel (these are nations where the nations’ dominion kills population and income, in exchange for freespawn, and for both learning and micro purposes is not very newbie friendly; In the case of Ermor/Lemuria, there are also no recruitable units [all summonables]), and in general does not make for a good learning experience in MP games
  • Blood nations (Mictlan, first and foremost) are more micro-intensive, though the recent changes to Dom4 make them far less cumbersome.
  • Heavy Bless Strategy Nations (Mictlan again); while fairly straightforward, it’s difficult to leverage game success into learning for someone new to the series.

4) To learn the game, I would recommend learning the basics of the following nations: Eriu, EA Ermor, MA Jotunheim, and EA Tien Chi (in no particular order). Each of these nations are different, and emphasize different strengths and weaknesses. MA Eriu is an essential to learn basic ponymen thugging, and a good starting point for those interested in thugs and air magic. MA Jotunheim is useful for learning to break into blood, and the use of giant troops/thugs. Meanwhile, EA Ermor and Tien Chi, between the two, generally cover the breadth of the magic system, and the strengths and different playstyles of more human armies.


Additional Information and Links


+ Show Spoiler +
Dominions can be bought over on Desura and Gamersgate with plans to bring it to Stream in the works (note that buying a Desura or Gamersgate key will be usable on Steam when it comes out there like Dominions 3, though not vice-versa). The manuals can be found on the illwinter site.

There are numerous Dominions communities scattered throughout the web, the largest ones to my knowledge are located in the following areas:
Desura (Official Forums)
Shrapnel Games (the old Dom3 forums)
SomethingAwful.com; you will need to pay and register for access, but this is the largest and most active Dom4 community period)
Dom4Mods, a community primarily consisting of Dominions 4 Vets
Grogheads had a D3 community, though there hasn't been an overall transition to D4 yet and the community appears to be evaporating.
Rock, Paper, Shotgun
Dedicated Steam group for Dominions 4 MP (hosted via a Direct Connect Server)
The /domg/ community on 4chan. This links to their steam group BUT you can find their current general thread here, in /vg/ generals. WARNING: it's 4chan ADDITIONAL NOTE: the 4chan community also has a communal poorfag game key: if you want to try the game out, go over there and say hello. ONLY ONE PERSON can use it in an MP game, however, so be warned.
The Dwarf Fortress forum also has a fairly regular D4 community.
BrokenForum also hosts an active D4 community, and seems to have been set up as an offshoot of the Qt3 podcast.
The Quarter To Three Forum hosts a friendly and active D4 community.
There is also a community on the PI forums, though you will need to be registered/have a PI game registered to view it. This was the old D3 thread.
RPG.net
The Gaming Den has a D4 community, though it seems to be inactive the past few months.

There are also several non-English communities like Punta de Lanza (Spanish)., and there is at least one Russian Dominions community (whither I know not, after multiple moves).

There are also 2 LPs which you can read over (both by the SA community). Both are of Dominions 3, but it should give you an idea what Dominions 4 gameplay is generally like (though there are numerous divergences, changes, and general interface improvements).

Dominions 3: the Elephantine Armies of Mrs. Buttersworth
Doomed to Fail: Let's Play Dominions 3! (Group AARs)
]
+ Show Spoiler +
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
HeatEXTEND
Profile Joined October 2012
Netherlands836 Posts
October 11 2013 17:51 GMT
#2
If a TL game goes up, I'm in .

For the record, the money spent on this game will most likely be the best bang for your buck in a long, long time where games are concerned. It's amazing.
knuckle
xuanzue
Profile Joined October 2010
Colombia1747 Posts
October 12 2013 01:25 GMT
#3
just a flesh wound

[image loading]

this is a very good and depth game, but i expect they bring more mod options. 2 sprites by unit are so few.
Dominions 4: "Thrones of Ascension".
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-12 02:42:48
October 12 2013 02:40 GMT
#4
The only thing I can think of modding at the moment would be all the sounds. I have a pretty good tolerance for 2-frame sprites but some of the sounds are really 90s.

I bought it just a few days ago and have been having a blast playing and screwing up. My lastest game got kind of stalemated which was probably because of my map setup... not very many good chokepoints to take advantage of and very crowded which was probably the cause of so many wars happening at once.

Also, I totally want to somehow make the death beast an SC. 1 hit ko all the time every time.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
October 12 2013 03:41 GMT
#5
On October 12 2013 11:40 phyvo wrote:
The only thing I can think of modding at the moment would be all the sounds. I have a pretty good tolerance for 2-frame sprites but some of the sounds are really 90s.

I bought it just a few days ago and have been having a blast playing and screwing up. My lastest game got kind of stalemated which was probably because of my map setup... not very many good chokepoints to take advantage of and very crowded which was probably the cause of so many wars happening at once.

Also, I totally want to somehow make the death beast an SC. 1 hit ko all the time every time.

Death Beast? To which are you referring to? If you mean the Eater of the Dead, well, that has a propensity for catastrophe.

On October 12 2013 10:25 xuanzue wrote:
*snip*

Still perplexed as to how they achieved the headless state. Normally only possible on zombies. :o

As an aside, I'll probably end up putting together an written LP of the game to help with the learning process. Any nation suggestions in particular that you guys would like to see? I'll balance them against the possible learning opportunities they will provide for a reader.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
ToT)OjKa(
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Korea (South)2437 Posts
October 12 2013 04:47 GMT
#6
Looks pretty good.

Kinda reminds me of Lords of Magic
OjKa OjKa OjKa!
HeatEXTEND
Profile Joined October 2012
Netherlands836 Posts
October 12 2013 11:46 GMT
#7
On October 12 2013 10:25 xuanzue wrote:
Retheric


Keeping that guy around is nothing short of straight up sadism .
knuckle
KissBlade
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States5718 Posts
October 12 2013 11:59 GMT
#8
Who were you on the dominion forums because I played a crap ton of this game and used to post a lot and wrote a bunch of guides but dunno who you are Lord Tolkien ...
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
October 12 2013 17:08 GMT
#9
On October 12 2013 12:41 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2013 11:40 phyvo wrote:
The only thing I can think of modding at the moment would be all the sounds. I have a pretty good tolerance for 2-frame sprites but some of the sounds are really 90s.

I bought it just a few days ago and have been having a blast playing and screwing up. My lastest game got kind of stalemated which was probably because of my map setup... not very many good chokepoints to take advantage of and very crowded which was probably the cause of so many wars happening at once.

Also, I totally want to somehow make the death beast an SC. 1 hit ko all the time every time.

Death Beast? To which are you referring to? If you mean the Eater of the Dead, well, that has a propensity for catastrophe.


I was talking pretenders actually. Just looked it up again, it's the "Devourer of Souls", which has a huge fear and a 1 hit KO attack but nothing else that would actually help it, well, not die and kill tons of little targets should they not be afraid. Not many equipment slots either.

On October 12 2013 10:25 xuanzue wrote:
*snip*

As an aside, I'll probably end up putting together an written LP of the game to help with the learning process. Any nation suggestions in particular that you guys would like to see? I'll balance them against the possible learning opportunities they will provide for a reader.[/QUOTE]

Maybe LA Jomon, the samurai nation? They seem to have pretty good basics and mages with a lot of magic paths so a lot of potential learning there. I haven't played around with MA or EA much so IDK about those.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
October 12 2013 17:34 GMT
#10
Is it better than FFH2 ?
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-12 21:45:20
October 12 2013 21:36 GMT
#11
On October 12 2013 20:59 KissBlade wrote:
Who were you on the dominion forums because I played a crap ton of this game and used to post a lot and wrote a bunch of guides but dunno who you are Lord Tolkien ...

I am currently operating under the handle of StannisDaMannis on the Desura forums, though I've had a couple other IDs on the old forums (at different periods of time). Tolkien was the main one, I think. Back then I played alot of LA Ulm and EA Helheim.

On October 13 2013 02:34 Boblion wrote:
Is it better than FFH2 ?

I've heard nothing but good things about FFH2, but the Dom4 magic system is comparatively much more well-developed than it is in FFH2, and there is a great deal of thematic diversity in the available Dominions3 Nations.

On October 13 2013 02:08 phyvo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2013 12:41 Lord Tolkien wrote:
On October 12 2013 11:40 phyvo wrote:
The only thing I can think of modding at the moment would be all the sounds. I have a pretty good tolerance for 2-frame sprites but some of the sounds are really 90s.

I bought it just a few days ago and have been having a blast playing and screwing up. My lastest game got kind of stalemated which was probably because of my map setup... not very many good chokepoints to take advantage of and very crowded which was probably the cause of so many wars happening at once.

Also, I totally want to somehow make the death beast an SC. 1 hit ko all the time every time.

Death Beast? To which are you referring to? If you mean the Eater of the Dead, well, that has a propensity for catastrophe.


I was talking pretenders actually. Just looked it up again, it's the "Devourer of Souls", which has a huge fear and a 1 hit KO attack but nothing else that would actually help it, well, not die and kill tons of little targets should they not be afraid. Not many equipment slots either.

Ah yes, that fellow.

The Devourer of Souls, by in large, is not a SC because of the problems you listed, but IS an Anti-SC/Thug because of its attack's irresistable insta-death properties (IF it lands). He can be utilized to hold the line in your dominion if you have enough research (Soul Vortex+Invulnerability+a few other Death alterations), but he can't really deal with armies of chaff in the same vein as a truly kitted out SC, or, for instance, the Gorgon.

Maybe LA Jomon, the samurai nation? They seem to have pretty good basics and mages with a lot of magic paths so a lot of potential learning there. I haven't played around with MA or EA much so IDK about those.

LA Jomon is a good LA candidate, though I've never played them before. Their magic diversity is (as characteristic of the LA) great, but the highest paths (outside of their underwater recruits [hint: there be dragons under the sea] and summonables) are pretty low. Probably a good LA candidate, though there are several (Patala, LA TC, and Bogarus), and in general LA showcases less magic. I was looking at EA T'ien C'hi (for an examination at the magic system outside of Blood) or MA Eriu (how to Thug). The LA is, generally, characterized by BSandD (Blood, Astral, and Death), which are aspects I can go into (though I do want to shy away from Blood, given the LP focus).
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
October 14 2013 02:56 GMT
#12
Yeah, sounds like EA would be better.
As for my own games, I just now figured out that for LA pangaea I can round up my dopey researchers to make scary communions. Fancy that. Too bad I'm greedy.

Any advice on commander assassins? I did the basic math on a dryad seduction for a simple commander and the success rate is so low (< 30%) that it's basically just an assassin that randomly doesn't have to fight. The awe is obviously nice and I was thinking of giving them luck amulets but I wasn't sure how much I should be spending on a mere dryad or what else to give them. Also I'm curious about how it works with stuff like Jomon ninjas.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-14 03:58:20
October 14 2013 03:57 GMT
#13
Assassins are interesting now in Dominions 4. You are correct about seduction: in general, it has a low success rate, but on the times it succeeds, for instance against an enemy mage in good paths that you otherwise have difficult/no access to, it's a pretty nice bonus. Assassins such as Jomonese ninjas just go for the attempt. Most assassins will be, out of the box, able to kill generic, indy-grade commanders (avoid committing vs Giants) and mages (before they start getting scary with the possible evocations).

In general, think economical. A skull talisman, for instance, will generally allow an assassin to guarantee a kill against most commanders in the early game (even some titans if they fatigue out), if they're without bodyguards, and it's a D1 trinket with 0 research required. For the Dyrad, something so that she can actually kill the opposing commander if it comes down to it, or force a rout (aka, either fear [which also enhances the strength of the awe] or something like dual-wielded Serpent Kryss's).

In general though, the Dyrad shouldn't be overly committed to such attempts. In the LA, she's overshadowed by the Centaur Sages, but in earlier eras, she's a major researcher/main non-Pan mage.

Specifically regarding assassins:

Theoretically, assassins could be used as a gimmicky way of expanding (assassinate all indy commanders, attack with assassins, indy army routs) to supplement regular expansion via national troops/mercs, though there are opportunity costs presented (assassin or national/cap-only mage?). This applies also to additional forts that are built: is the assassin more valuable then a lab rat or combat mage?

General musings on the stealthy commanders: there are three types of "stealthy" units. There are stealthy commanders, but that's another subject entirely (raiding/infiltration/thugs). One are scouts/generally stealthy units. They provide basic information on PD, better troop information, and overall intel. Whenever you encounter an indy province that allows you to recruit scouts, spam them! Having information on the world outside your immediate borders/dominion is essential when you end up playing MP, and is overall a convenience to have (knowing what troops the enemy has where, etc). People are generally loathe to buy national scouts at their forts because of the strong likelihood of running into an indy province with scouts, which makes buying a scout at a fortress unattractive.

The other two "stealthy" units are spies and assassins. Spies give extremely accurate intel (including which magic sites are present), and can also raise the unrest in a province. Spies are mostly limited on a nation-by-nation business, but spies can be extremely impactful by themselves despite competing for commander rec spots with mages (especially with the new unrest changes). If you have a group of spies at an enemy fort raising unrest above 100, they can't recruit units (and lose a chunk of income). Plop them in the enemy capital and, assuming they aren't patrolled away, they can raise unrest through the roof for a time, which can cripple nations especially reliant on their capitals (for cap-only troops/commanders), in addition to eating chunks of their income (especially early). Basically, spies can be used to cripple an enemy economy.

Assassins are more niche, but they can be used more as a psychological tool. While it has strategic uses against AIs (assassinating AI commanders), human players will generally adapt better. Though the changes to leadership/morale/formations/squad limits means that players want to concentrate command (as opposed to Dom3 where a lack of morale penalties that people just mass recruited indy commanders for their needs), players can still beat assassins (usually) with dummy commanders (to dilute the chances of an assassination of a key mage or commander), bodyguards (possible to overcome with gear, but either your assassin has great base stats or they becomes an enormous investment), or magic spells like Mind Hunt. As a result, they saw relatively little play in Dom3 when the choice between a mage and an assassin was clear (the mage). Assassins were simply not an effective investment.

Now, with overall weakening magic (by increasing research times) and other changes such as aforementioned leadership dynamics, assassins are an interesting proposition. They, again, force the enemy player into taking precautions (bodyguards to dilute main forces, additional dummy commanders, etc), and using an assassin once or twice, especially kitted, can by itself force the enemy player to spend resources to counter the (low investment) threat. Basically, using them as terrorists. Shouldn't mass recruit them, but a few can be useful.

These comments are generally directed at MP. In SP, you have a wider latitude to use the above strategies.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-17 22:35:52
November 17 2013 22:35 GMT
#14
Somewhat of a necro, but two updates:

1) llamaserver is up and running. With an automated MP server up, I'm wondering if we have enough players to organize a TL MP game.

2) I've also gotten off my ass to start my Dom4 LP here. It'll likely have a focus on thugging, given I've taken the Eriu route. The next part should be up sometime Monday.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
Sunaj
Profile Joined November 2009
Canada2041 Posts
November 22 2013 21:51 GMT
#15
Is Dominions 4 that much of an upgrade of over 3? Having read this, and a thing bout Eater of the Dead rampaging over the world, I wanna try this. 4th game is kinda pricey, and I'm hoping to get 3 over Xmas assuming it's gonna get a price drop. Unless 4 really is that much better anyway.
DefMatrixUltra
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada1992 Posts
November 22 2013 22:23 GMT
#16
On November 23 2013 06:51 Sunaj wrote:
Is Dominions 4 that much of an upgrade of over 3? Having read this, and a thing bout Eater of the Dead rampaging over the world, I wanna try this. 4th game is kinda pricey, and I'm hoping to get 3 over Xmas assuming it's gonna get a price drop. Unless 4 really is that much better anyway.


http://www.illwinter.com/dom4/improvements.html

From my perspective, Dominions 4 is basically Dominions 3.5. It's Dominions 3 with some interface updates, some game mechanics changes, and of course a bunch of new content. They are fundamentally the same game. You'll have to decide whether that's going to bother you.

Dominions 4 has a very nice new mechanic called Thrones of Ascension. There are Thrones placed randomly in regions on the map. When you claim a certain number of these, you auto-win. This makes end-game playable and more interesting since you're less likely to give up when "losing" (you can make a last desperate push to claim Thrones) and thus both the "winner" and "loser" are more likely to play the game out. This is a much bigger change than it sounds like, and it's probably the number one upgrade to the game imo. Thrones also provide passive bonuses and are protected by more difficult neutrals.

The other really nice things are the interface changes and the formation and order system differences - those make the enjoyable parts of the game easier to enjoy. These changes are of the quality of life kind and hard to quantify, but they are pretty big imo - it would be doable for me to "revert" to Dom3, but I would miss all these changes sorely.

The other big change I like is the seasonal terrain change. If you pay attention to the layout of the map you can create choke points based on the time of year. This will have a role in pretty much any game, and it makes the strategic layer a bit more interesting imo.

Dominions 4 is Dominions 3 but better, basically. I'd say it's worth saving up to get it. If you intend to do lots of multiplayer, I'd definitely get 4 as it's going to be significantly better in that regard.
Sunaj
Profile Joined November 2009
Canada2041 Posts
November 22 2013 22:50 GMT
#17
Well, the 3.5 doesn't bother me, given that the entire thing is new anyway, plus considering I went from EU3 > EU4 it shouldn't be that bad anyway. And I'm guessing with it just having come out last month, the chances of 4 hitting Xmas sales are low. Well, guess I'll waffle over the decision over the week, and see what happens.
HeatEXTEND
Profile Joined October 2012
Netherlands836 Posts
November 23 2013 02:04 GMT
#18
I'd like to chime in here with the fact that dom3 has been the best bang for my buck ever, and that was at full price about ?2? years ago. Paying 25 monies for an "ugly, texty indie game" might sound like a lot, but honestly, it's a steal. The amount of content you're getting is pretty much unprecedented in games (or anywhere else for that matter) and while the community isn't the largest, it's one of the most dedicated ones around, lots of mods and all that goodness.

So ye, I'd say get Dom4
knuckle
HeatEXTEND
Profile Joined October 2012
Netherlands836 Posts
November 27 2013 15:48 GMT
#19
For anyone interested, this channel has a "let's play" of a multiplayer game as well as some other stuff. Would recommend if you're interested in the game.

knuckle
Sunaj
Profile Joined November 2009
Canada2041 Posts
November 28 2013 13:54 GMT
#20
Yeah, I got it on Monday, mildly sad it's on sale on Gamersgate for $6 off, but I can live with that, game's a blast, tho I'm having a hard time getting the all the magic crafting straight.
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