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Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension - Page 76

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KillerSOS
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States4207 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-13 15:18:03
October 13 2014 15:17 GMT
#1501
On October 11 2014 05:50 KissBlade wrote:
Would anyone be interested in me posting a nations tier list with one two lines that roughly describes strength/weakness of the nation along with possible research targets?


Yes, the lack of guides is part of the reason I quit playing... game is too hard :p

I love the early game guide! Keep up the great work.
HeatEXTEND
Profile Joined October 2012
Netherlands836 Posts
October 13 2014 16:20 GMT
#1502
On October 12 2014 13:43 KissBlade wrote:
EA Tiers done.

+ Show Spoiler +
EA Tier List/Nation Quick Fix Notes (Water nations are incomplete at the moment as they are hard to place due to high map dependency. On standard water body maps, likely ratings are Atlantis is"A. Thug nation", Oceania "B-. Troop nation", R'lyeh "C+" magocracy, Pelagia "D" troop nation.)

Each nation has suggested pretender chassis, research path & troop recruitment.

Arco: B + . Magocracy. Can form bad flying raid squads. Flex mages & healers.
Pretender: dom 9 awake cyclops, gorgon, fire/water dragon.
Research: Evo3, thaum 1, cons 4
Troops: Peltast, Cardaces
Arco is above average simply because of the flex cost in philosophers when you need early forts and the ability to take awake pretenders SC thanks to healers. Their mages are fairly predictable in use in evocation standards while Oreiads can stand in for either thunderstrike/storm of thorns/charm.

Ermor: B. Magocracy. Principes. Decent communion spam fodder & healers
Pretender: Dom 9 awake: Cyclops, Gorgon, Virtue, Dragon. Dom 9 awake (need to forge armor) Prince of Death. Dormant + Scales: Forge Lord, Titan of Rebirth. Imprisoned + scales: Oracle/Fountain/statues
Research: Evo 3, Thaum 1, constr 4, conjuration 3
Troops: Principes
Ermor is basically the average nation. Their mages are tricky to use thanks to path spread but augur elders can always bane fire. On the other hand, their troops are completely nobrainer. Principes in block formation at the front with no script is the norm mixed in with occasionally standards. The sacred shroud knights are actually pretty good but outmatched by better EA sacreds.

Ulm: B. Troop nation. Steel maidens/warriors. Cold Res/Stealth.
Pretender: Dormant+ Scales: Tiwaz/Allfather/Volla. Imprisoned + Scales: Oracle/Idol of Sorcery/Monolith
Research: Enchantment 3, Alteration 4, construction: 4
Troops: Maidens (various), Steel Warriors
Ulm's troops are quite good for EA in terms of standard troops. The cap only mage suffers a lot of issues in that it's simply not that good. They get some decent path diversity but spamming inept researcher shamans to get some death/nature is a downer. Stealth is a bonus and potentially can sell this nation as a B+.

Maverni: C+. Magocracy. Cheap comm fodder.
Pretender: Dom 9 Awake Gorgon, Dragon. Dom 9 dormant Gorgon /w E9.
Research: Enchantment 3, Thaum 1, Evocation 5.
Troops: Eponi Knights, barechests
Maverni can actually have decent expansion but quite vulnerable to rush. Strength of giants and barechested spam can stall rushes but this nation is also marred by a rep of easily rushable. Finally the mages while easy to set up communions are fairly predictable. Versatility is also an issue as awake pretenders are often needed. The E9 variant of the Gorgon is for survivability and in case you ever want to experiment with boars.

Sauromatia: A. Archery. Cheap comm fodder
Pretender: Dom 9 Awake Medusa, Fire Dragon. Dom9 dormant Phoenix. Imprisoned + Scales: Oracle
Research: Enchant 3, evocation 4, thaum 1.
Troops: Androphag archers, sauromatian lancers, cataphracts
Sauromatia is quite flexible and strong. They have many options from archer spam, cavalry rush, nether spell spam, raise skeleton hordes and Witchking thugs. Their power scales with user but as an archer nation with access to the gorgon chassis, they're also relatively easy for new players.

Tien Chi: S. Archery. Magocracy. Scaling sacreds.
Pretender: Awake dom 9 W9 Dragon. Dormant+ scales: General e4 + misc, Nyori: e4 + misc. Imprisoned: W9 Carp, w9s4Devi of Good Fortune, S7-s9 Oracle, Devi of Darkness: E4, b9
Research: Evo3-5, conjuration 3-5, Alt 4, Enchant 4
Troops: Archers, Shields, Wo5E.
Tien Chi scales amazingly well with user skill. They have a ton of flexible and amazing gem income thanks to path spread. You can also do whatever spread of scales with them and not go wrong though standbys of growth, order, magic are all varying levels of useful. Wo5E's are one of the best scaling sacreds in the game thanks to elemental resists. Noble 1 pt pds kills most small raids. While, some would argue TC is more A+ or S-, they win a disproportionate amount of their games so results are difficult to argue.

Machaka: B+. Archery. Elephants. Spies.
Pretender: Dormant: Collosal Fetish, Neter of Crafts, Moon, Many Names.
Research: Enchantment 4, Evocation 3-5
Troops: Archers, Shields, Elephants.
Machaka has good battlemagic and access to flaming arrows from archery spam. They don't shoot as well as TC/Sauro but flaming arrows in heat dominion is extra handy. Fireball/shadow spell access is useful as well and enchantment 4 naturally gives raise skeletons for spam. Heretic/unrest battlemages are troublesome but e3 native is always welcome. Also note that the Collosal Fetish CANNOT be minddueled or traditional astral tricked if you give it Astral for teleportation tricks. Elephant rush can still catch people offguard.

Mictlan: S-. Bless nation. Summons.
Pretender: Imprisoned: Collosal Head n9b9, f9 dragon, b9 Fountain, e9n4b4 Teteo, f9w9 Teotl of Rain, S7-9 Oracles
Research: Construction 4, enchant 4, blood x.
Troops: Jaguars, Eagles
Mictlan is fairly predictable as a blood bless nation with powerful summons. Beware of various cloud spells and archery/slinger spam that are fairly prevalent. Eagle warriors are an ok counter but doesn't always work. Mictlan is also perfectly viable as a pure scales nation. Suggested chassis are just easy blesses to get rolling.

Abysia: B+. Troop nation. Bless nation.
Pretender: Imprisoned: n9, e4-9 Neteret of Joy, Oracle + Scales. Dom9 Awake: Azi
Research: Evo3-5, conjuration 3, construction 4, blood x.
Troops: Burning ones, Abysians
Abysia has an amazing early game. They're also not as predictable as people think as they are quite capable of going the blood path. The issue primarily with Abysia is the lack of advantage from growth so luck maybe a late game consideration scale. Evocation rush, bless rush, blood spam are all viable. My hunch is scales + blood is the strongest route. Demonbreds are also amazing assassins with spammable medallion of vengeances ... Also if you manage to fort 2-3 archer provinces early and spam tons of archers, flaming arrows is still threatening.

Caelum: B. Archery. Magocracy. Mammoth
Pretender: Awaken dom9 Azi, Dormant: Teleporter dom9 Chassis.
Research: Evo 2- 4, Alt 4, enchant 3, construction 2
Troops: Mammoth, airya temple guards, Archers
Caelum's expansion phase is saved by the Mammoth but the Azi is also a great chassis for early game power to assist Caelum into the mid game. Unfortunately Caelum's late game is relatively predictable unless breaking into rainbow titans. Eagle kings are amazing late game carrying staff of storms => summon storm power => wrathful skies while others spam either phantasmal army or mists of deception.

C'tis: A-. Magocracy, chaff spam.
Pretender: Dom9 awake: e2-4 Wyrm, Fire dragon, Dormant + scales: Neter of Craft, Joy, chaos, Imprisoned + Scales: Oracle
Research: Enchant 3, Evocation 3-5, Conjuration 5, thaum 1, alt 5
Troops: Light infantry, City guards, Slave/Elite Warriors, Falchion, Chariots
C'tis has great recruit anywhere death mages. You play them very close to a zerg swarm Ermor with cheapo infantry flood backed with skeleton spam or shadow evocation. Late game should be fairly predictable Tartarian + Gift of Health. Take care that a nature 4-5 pretender may be worth considering to get an early mother oak rush.

Pangaea: B. Troops, Bless nation.
Pretender: Dormant: offpath Rainbow titans. Imprisoned + scales: Idol of Sorcery, Sphinx, n9e9 Gorgon, f9e9 forge lord/statue of war,
Research: alteration 5, thaum 3, enchantment 4, evo 2
Troops: Minotaurs, White Centaurs, Revelers, Satyr Warriors, Centaurs, Centaur Warriors
Sadly I don't play Pangaea often so my assessment is likely not accurate nor will my tips be that great. The only game I played Pan successfully was a dominion 3 strat that's outdated with awaken dual bless gorgon to snowball early with a white centaurs that relied on overtax/patrol tricks. However, all of Pan's troops are incredibly solid but sadly the nation doesn't hold a lot of flavor for me. My hunch says Pan is probably B+ but they feel very average to me atm.

Argatha: B. Mindblasters, Summons, Amphibian
Pretender: Awaken dom 9 N4-9 Dragon. Dormant: Risen Oracle
Research: Conjuration 3, Construction: 4, Alteration: 5
Troops: Olms, Trogs, Pale One Warrior
This nation really got saved by the addition of mindblasters. Mindblasters, trogs and hard hitting units can stave off rushes. Tempted to give this nation a B+ thanks to great summons but general inexperience with this nation makes it hard for me to tell. Aquatic ability will probably raise them to a B+ or even A- in maps where waters aren't contested.

Tir na n'Og: A-. Bless nation. Glamour nation. Thugs.
Pretender: Imprisoned: n9e4-9 Lord of Forest, e4s4n4 Monolith, w9 Dragon, b9 Fountain.
Troops: Firbolgs, Sidhe Champion/Lords
Research: Evo 2, Alteration 3, enchant 4, construction 4-x
TNN is a standard thug nation that's easy to pilot and pretty strong thanks to fir bolg troops, out of box thugs and air evocation. Most of their "big plays" comes from raiding and hiding massive squads of thugs to take a ton of provinces at once. Airdropping thugs is a favorite TNN pasttime.

Fomoria: A, Bless nation. SC. Sailing. Amphibian.
Pretender: Imprisoned: n9e4-9 Lord of Forest, e4s4n4/9 Monolith.
Troops: Firbolgs, Nemedians, Unmarked
Research: Alt3-6, construction 4, enchantment 4
Fomoria is a SC nation with versatile options thanks to Unmarked/Nemedians as elites and firbolgs as expanders/line. The Fomorian King is arguably the best SC chassis in the game thanks to it's paths/sailing/amphibian. Air/death evo even staves off any rush in case your troops somehow can't hold the line or you botched up big time. A+ on most maps if sailing/water is available.

Vanheim: B+ Bless nation, troop nation, Sailing, Thugs
Pretender: Imprisoned: n9e4-9 Great mother, n9w9 Son of Fenrir, W9aX Father of winter, scales/rainbow titan.
Troops: Huskarl, Mounted Hirdman, Vanhere
Research: Alteration 3, Enchant 4, Construction 4-x
Vanheim & TNN are different flavors of each other. TNN's better mages edges out the Vanheim (crappy) blood access, and dwarf forging. Everything said about TNN more or less applies with Vanheim though Vanheim is more thug reliant. Scales build Vanheim is perfectly fine but lack of regen could hurt. Having access to the n9w9 bless with an reinvig item will make your vanjarls practical gods of midgame though.

Helheim: S. Bless nation, troop nation, Thugs/SC,
Pretender: Imprisoned: n9e4-9 Great mother, n9w9 Son of Fenrir, W9aX Father of winter, scales/rainbow titan.
Troops: Huskarl, Mounted Hirdman, Valkyrie, Helhirdlings
Research: Alteration 3-6, Enchant 4, Construction 4-x
There's really no reason to play Vanheim over Helheim. While Vanheim does have access to A4 easier as well as potential sailing, Helheim gains the superior death 3-4 option, flying and better dwarf. Dis + Valkyrie allows limitless headaches with even a minor bless and Hangadrotts are practically SC's with n9 buffing their hp and adding regen. Helheim being S while Vanheim hovering at a B+ displays the gap between the two nations. Similar strats apply though Helheim is much more flexible in it's pretender route.

Niefelheim: S. Bless nation. Thugs/SC
Pretender: Imprisoned: n9e4-9 Great mother
Troops: Jotun Huskarl/javelin, Jotun Skinshifter, Niefels, Skrattis, Godes.
Research: Alteration: 2, enchantment 2, construction 4, thaum 3-4, conjuration 4
Niefel is a straightforward nation. Rush with blesses or skinshifters Mid-endgame with Skrattis to enhance. You can do some cute tricks with Godes with stealth items and jotun scouts being blessable to form stealth parties. The only downside is players will take heat dominion to push against you if there's a Niefel in the game. You are also fairly predictable. However unit wise you match up so well against 90% of the game that it doesn't matter too much.

Kailasa: B. Archer nation, Sacreds
Pretender: Awake dom 9: Dragon, Destroyer of Worlds, Devi of Darkness. Dormant: Destroyer of Worlds, Devi of Darkness. Imprisoned: w9s4 Devi of Fortune, a9d4 Destroyer of Worlds
Troops: Atavi Archers, Light Bandar archers, Yavana Archers
Research: Evocation 2-5, Alteration 5, Enchantment 3
Kailasa is an unweilding nation in that it's a nation full of sacreds but your recruit anywhere sacred are magical beings. You have relatively cheap communion mages but nothing impressive early game to communion. Your late game is pretty decent and an dormant n9 dragon might be worth in a game where no one fights you for mother oak as alteration 5 gives acccess to bone melter. Your sacreds don't wear armor so slings/arrows murder them but awe makes them ok at melee. Rust mist evens the odds for you but alteration gives the much more useful destruction so it might be worth rushing straight down that line instead. This nation has potential but it seems too clunky to unlock thanks to a relatively crummy troopline.

Lanka: A-. Sacreds. Bless nations. Summons.
Pretender: Imprisoned: n9e4-9s1- 4 Monolith, n9e4-9 Great Bull, w9s4 Devi of Fortune, w9 dragon, e9s4 Nyorai, e4b9 Devi of Darkness
Research: Construction 4, Blood 6, Alteration 3, enchantment 4.
Troops: Palankasha, light bandar archers, bandar warriors
Lanka fell a bit from dom3 glory days thanks to being a turmoil nation. However, loads of freespawn thanks to priests keeps you afloat along with hard hitting Palankasha's. The Kala sacred warriors are pretty crummy but if you have a bless they're recruit anywhere with no turmoil power. Your goal is basically get to blood 6 with an ok blood econ. At that stage, Dakini's basically clean everything on the field due to how powerful they are.

Yomi: B- Archer nation. SC nation.
Pretender: Dormant: a4s4e4 Celestial General, a4w4s4 Jade Emperor, w4s4Carp, Imprisoned n4e4s6 Monolith
Research: Enchantment 4, Evocation 3-4, construction 6, alteration 6, conjuration 8
Troops: Bakemono archers, Bandits, Ao-Oni's, Aka-oni's, Kuro-oni's
I wrote an entire guide on Yomi for dom3 that's mostly applicable still.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41848&page=3

Hinnom: A. Troop nation. SC nation
Pretender: Dormant Diversity offpath Titans, Imprisoned n9e4-9 Annukai of Growth, Imprisoned b3-b9 Fountain of Blood, Imprisoned scales Oracle
Research: Construction 4, alteration 4, Enchantment 3, Blood X
Troops: Avvite Charioteer, Dawn Guards,
Hinnom is strange in for a giant nation with a strong bless troop, you actually dont' want to make any of them. Rephaite Warriors aren't sustainable thanks to unrest and pop killing and you dearly want your population for blood hunts. Blessed Melqarts are very strong early mid game t12-30 but you absolutely don't need a bless as your chariots are amazing indie expanders and dawn guards are great against players. Melqarts/Baal's are easier to use with a bless but the window when you get enough gems to gear them with rings of regen is very early so a scales build will be more preferable for veterans. Heavy blood on pretender is also fine for b9 on Melqarts and late game Grigori's.

Ur: B. Troop nation?
Pretender: Awake dom 9 Moloch, Scorpion King. Dormant: Diversity offpath Titan
Research: Alteration: 4, evocation: 3, enchantment 3.
Troops: Enkidu's Chosen (misc swamp recruit including Reaver, Archer, Hunter)
Ur doesn't really have a classification. I think the closest I would put them would be a "troop nation" but their in cap troops are pretty crummy outside of Enkidu's Chosen. On the other hand, their swamp ones are pretty good with a solid longbow archer and the bereserking reaver so it's kind of strange. They have a bunch of magic paths but they're not quite a mage nation either. An awake Moloch will serve you well since your pretender doesnt' lose path being called back and it lets you splash some fire to make Chosens hit better.

Berytos S. Magocracy, Elephants, Summons, Sailing
Pretender: Awake dom9 Moloch, Cyclops. Dormant: Forge Lord, Prince of Death, Diversity Pretender offpaths.
Research: Evocation: 2, alteration 4, enchantment 4, construction 4, blood 4
Troops: Spearman, Archers, Colossi Warrior
Berytos has excellent battle mages, good troops, cheapo researchers and sailing. On top of this they get a nice income bonus from the cap that can snowball your gold for the year pretty nicely. In addition, their priests are blood hunters that can also be used to evocation in a pinch. I feel Melqart is overpriced as a summon but it's a SC chassis option. On the other hand, the blood 3/4 national summons are very good. Much like Tien Chi, Berytos has a ton of options on how to play out the game and scales with it's user very well.


Nice !
knuckle
entropius
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1046 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-14 05:41:10
October 14 2014 05:40 GMT
#1503
On October 14 2014 00:12 Kronen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 14 2014 00:06 scFoX wrote:
On October 13 2014 23:45 Kronen wrote:
What would you guys say is the average daily time commitment for a game? I'm really excited about this game and potentially joining up, but there are weeks in the coming months in whcih I'll be gone for 1-2 days at a time. My average week includes days in which I can only imagine an hour/day max to spend on a persistent game.


Well, games can take a long time depending on map size (number of provinces per player) and whether the game is nodiplo or not (nodiplo games are faster). Usually, the turn submission frequency is 24- hours until the end of the first year (turn 12), then adds 6 hours every year. TeamLiquidGame3 for example is at turn 61 with 48 hour turn delays and started on July 9th, so three months ago. That's the longest game so far, though, and another game has started and finished in the meantime.

Turn submission is flexible; you can do your turn offline and submit it by email to the server. Generally, the new turn starts when everyone submitted their turn.


Thanks for the info! The time it takes to complete a turn varies by team then? What are some teams that require less finicky micro-management?


Being gone 1-2 days at a time should be okay; we are pretty lenient about asking for and granting extensions.

I would guess that big blood nations take a lot of micromanagement, and the freespawn nations (MA Ermor, Asphodel, Lemuria, LA R'lyeh) take a LOT of micro.

Some others can be fiddly; EA Ulm required quite a lot for me, since much of their power lies in magic, and they have lots of mages with random paths, and you have to ask: "okay, how is this guy with these particular paths going to contribute to this battle?" They also do lots of forging, and you have to herd all those items.

mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
October 14 2014 06:02 GMT
#1504
Imho there should be no downtalking of the commitment needed for dom MPs... They take a lot of time, almost every day, and over several months... Certainly... We have been giving out extensions without asking any further, but it shouldn't be overused, imho.
KissBlade
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States5718 Posts
October 14 2014 06:08 GMT
#1505
On October 14 2014 15:02 mahrgell wrote:
Imho there should be no downtalking of the commitment needed for dom MPs... They take a lot of time, almost every day, and over several months... Certainly... We have been giving out extensions without asking any further, but it shouldn't be overused, imho.



This. While, it's understandable that people have RL stuff occur, etc. Assume that MP games will be long term and generally requires commitment.
scFoX
Profile Joined September 2011
France454 Posts
October 14 2014 11:19 GMT
#1506
I got inspired by entropius's work and decided to extend his table to all ages and include crosspaths to get an idea about each nation's magical diversity. I hope this is useful. Enjoy!

[image loading]
KissBlade
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States5718 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-16 09:28:23
October 16 2014 09:40 GMT
#1507
MA Tiers complete

+ Show Spoiler +
MA Tier List/Nation Quick Fix Notes

Each nation has suggested pretender chassis, research path & troop recruitment.
Note: Ermor is not complete due to lack of data but suspect B+. dom kill/thug nation. Atlantis, Ryleh, Pelagia, Oceania are incomplete due to lack of data/dependency on map. Assume, Atlantis: B+ Thug nation. Ryleh: A-, Magocracy. Pelagia: D, troop nation. Oceania: B-, Bless nation.

Arco: A-. Magocracy. Elephants. Healers
Pretender: dom 9 awake: cyclops, gorgon, fire/water dragon. Dormant + scales: Titan of underworld/Rebirth
Research: Evo 3-6, thaum 1-5, alteration 4
Troops: Hyaspist, Elephants
Arco plays very similarly to EA Arco though elephants are slightly more reliable thanks to better escorts. Elephants are nice to rotate with priest healing and you also have access to SC though it's not really needed. Hoplites are great for holding the line and Hyaspists are quite good to place with elephants in the same squad as a line for indie expanding. While two elephants with X hyaspists seem expensive, they usually take most indies without casualties. Also less “power sacreds”in MA boosts Arco up a notch in addition to excellent battlemagic from their astrologists/mystics.

Sceleria: B+. Troop nation. Principes, Raise undeads
Pretender: Dom9 awake: w9 Dragon, Dormant: w9s4 Titan of Rivers. Imprisoned: s9 Oracle.
Research: Enchantment: 4, Evocation 5, thaum 1.
Troops: Principes, Shadow Vestals
Sceleria is essentially a solid pick. Thanks to principes, it enjoys a solid expansion and an easy troop line. In addition, it adds easy spam thanks to all priests gaining access to raise undeads and the various buffs. This allows an early snowball in terms of expansion especially if w9 shadow vestals are used. Finally, antimagic access in addition to Protection of Sepulcre allows your undeads to survive banishment spam.

Pythium: A. Magocracy. Principes. Communions.
Pretender: dom9 awake: gorgon, e9 cyclops. Dormant: diversity offpath Titans. Imprisoned + Scales: Oracle, Forge Lord.
Research: Evo 4, Thaum1-6, Alteration: 4, Enchant: 7
Troops: Principes
While it is obvious that Pythium is a communion nation from their mage lineup, they get the all purpose principe. In addition, they have a versatile core of pretender chassis as well as powerful late game in the national astral summons. Stellar Focus & Growth 3 should be considered to power your late game.

Man: B. Archer nation. Bards
Pretender: dom9 awake: f4 dragon. Dormant: Tiwaz, Master Lich. Imprisoned Oracle/Monolith + scales
Research: Evocation: 2, Alteration: 5, Conjuration 3-5
Troops: Royal Foresters, Longbow, Knights of Man/Avalon
Man is a relatively straight forward troop nation. While longbows/foresters/knights scale fairly well into a midgame squad, their mage line is sadly lackluster for late game. Consider diversity for your pretender if the map is larger or a high strength oracles hoping to have lizards for astral searching early on. The f4 dragon offers a good early game expansion rush in addition to access to flaming arrows as a flyer. Along with bard squads in groups of four, aim to shut down capitals of warring neighbors that scale better than you do. Foresters also give access to stealth raids.

Eriu: A+. Thug nation. Bards
Pretender: Imprisoned: n9e4 Lord of the Forest, w9n9 Volla, b9 Fountain.
Research: Alteration: 3, Enchantment:4, construction: 4
Troops: Firbolgs (spear), Daoine Sidhes
Eriu plays much like TNN from EA. The classic thug strategy of Sidhe Lord spam backed by a n9e4 bless works just as well as in EA if not better thanks to the lesser competition. Finally Bards are excellent spies in squads of 3-4 to shut down a capital. The proper Eriu play is often mass stealth attacking an empire with Bards shutting down centers of production.

Ulm: B+. Troop nation. Smith bonus.
Pretender: Awake: Tiwaz, All father. Dormant: all father, Tiwaz
Research: Evocation: 3, Construction: 6, alteration 4, enchantment: 3
Troops: Guardians, Black Plate Pikes/Infantry, Black Knights, Crossbow
Thanks to the smith bonus, Ulm doesn't necessarily need production scales to field their troops. Consider an awake pretender to assist snowballing early game by taking nearby forest/mountains. Setting up early forts to infantry spam is crucial. Ulm does falter late game but iron angels/iron blizzard are both still great spells. Finally, strangely, Ulm is weak to an early rush as their standard line don't match up well against Dragons/Flaming Arrows. Consider recruiting Black Knights in those events. Finally Drain scales are tempting due to one gem lanterns but I suggest keeping magic neutral as Ulm is fairly reliant mid game for some indie mages. If taking the awake Tiwaz/Allfather, consider pushing alteration, enchantment and construction earlier. The chassis is meant for an earlier site searcher rather than pure SC.

Marignon: B. Troop nation. Friars, Anti-Undead
Pretender: Dormant: Titan of Rebirth, Titan of Heavens. Imprisoned + scales: Oracle
Research: Enchantment: 4, Evocation: 3, Thaum1, Alteration: 4
Troops: Halberdiers, Crossbows
Marignon's troops are stable and pretty straightforward in their approach. Their starting army is on the crummier side so an awake pretender may be desirable or production is a possibility. Sadly their magic flexibility runs into issues late game with fire being largely useless except for allowing the angelic summons. Marignon is also unlikely to be able to contest stellar focus with stronger astral nations in many of the MA games. This tends to blunt their edge significantly. On the other hand, friar/troubadors does allow some tricks potentially in dom pushing/spying.

Tien Chi: B+. Troop nation. Consorts.
Pretender: Dormant: Nataraja, Celestial General, Master Lich. Imprisoned + scales: Oracle
Research: Alteration 4, Enchantment: 4, Thaum: 1, Evocation: 5
Troops: Archers, Ministry footmen
Tien Chi's shift from EA to MA is a drastic downgrade. Gone are the amazing sacreds and flying battle mage. The capital mages of Tien Chi are good for site searching, forging and summoning but overcosted as battle mages. Everything in Tien Chi is specialized for a role requiring lots of long term planning. It's best battle mage tends to be the imperial geomancer allowing cheap communion into gift of heavens or earth troop buffs. Celestial masters can add misc power as communion masters as well and an f2 roll on the imperial alchemist allows flaming arrow access with summon phoenix power. Consort spam is also a viable tactic as they are among the best spies in MA.

Mictlan: S. Magocracy. Jaguar Warriors, Eagle Warriors.
Pretender: Imprisoned: w9n4 Teotl of Rain, f9 dragon, b9 Fountain, e9n4b4 Teteo, S7-9 Oracles
Research: Evocation: 3, Alteration: 4, Conjuration: 3, Thaumaturgy: 1
Troops: Eagle Warriors, Jaguar Warriors
On paper, it looks crazy to rank MA Mictlan higher than EA Mictlan. Make no mistake, EA Mictlan would be an absolute giant in MA. However, relative to other nations in MA, Mictlan stands out. Recruit anywhere eagles absolutely mauls most scripts. In addition, communion access as well as Coatl's having access to power of spheres gives early thunderstrikes, stellar cascade spam. You also enjoy standard versatile evocations to counter your opponent's elements. Jaguar Warriors allow easy early expansion giving free imprisoned points to power their bless. Don't forget that turkeys fly allowing you to lead flying communions!

Machaka: B-. Magocracy
Pretender: Awake Dom9: Collosal Fetish, W4 Dragon. Dormant: Collosal Fetish, Neter of Crafts
Research: Evocation: 3-5, Enchantment: 4, Conjuration: 3
Troops: Machaka Archer, Machaka Warriors
Machaka on paper looks ok with spiders (especially the black hunter) able to do the expansion while the cap only mages are decent in their versatility. Sadly, spiders are absolutely awful against human players due to animal resistance. Sadly every other unit on their roster is practically unusable. They get a pass as in archery because they can flood short bows that can be lit on fire. It's really unfortunate that these guys stop one short of banefire. With a skull staff, death 2 witch doctors can banefire with eagle eye for consideration.

Argartha: A-. Bless nation.
Pretender: Imprisoned: Monolith: n9s4e2. Great mother: n9e4.
Research: Enchantment: 3, Alteration: 4, conjuration 3-5, evocation: 3, construction: 4,
Troops: Shard Guards, Troglodyte
Argatha got a huge facelift thanks purely to the fact that shard guards allow a much smoother expansion phase. Argatha's mid and late game is greatly augmented by incredibly durable national summons, most of which is buffed in dominion with an hp bonus. In addition, Olm Conclave gives a cheap access to anti thug/sc's. On the other hand, all of Argatha's national summons are countered by various spells (shatter for constructions, anti undead for others). Once Umbrals are attained, field them with buffs as they outfight anything in their research levels and scale very well due to life drain.

Abysia: B. Troop nation. Blood access.
Pretender: Imprisoned: n9e4-9 Neteret of Joy, e9s4 Neter of Crafts, Oracle + Scales. Dom9 Awake: Azi
Research: Evocation: 3-5, Conjuration: 3, Construction: 4, Alteration: 4, Blood: 3-5
Troops: Abysian, Lava Warriors
Abysia would rank higher were their best mages not all about to keel over from old age. As they gain no income from the powerful Growth scale, Abysia is kept at a B rank despite a great troop line and easy expansion. Dormant n9 may be considered simply to search for nature gems to eventually grab Gift of Health. Alteration: 4 also allows body ethereal to make lava warriors practically immune to non magic opposition.

Caelum: A-. Magocracy. Mammoth
Pretender: Awaken dom9 Azi, Dormant: Teleporter dom9 Chassis.
Research: Evocation 3-5, Alteration: 4, Construction: 6
Troops: Mammoth, wingless
Wingless grouped with mammoth allow easy expansion squads. The frost archers are interesting but not really worth recruiting. While lightning spam is predictable, air also gets false fetters, false horrors, ghost wolve and other tricks in addition to powerful battlefield enchants late game. Take care not to spam High Seraphs as it'll bleed your coffers. Finally ice crafters with construction 6 can form 2 gem bracelets/brands along with 7 gem water bottles with a hammer which is absolutely insane so a diversity pretender with earth is worth considering. Great pretender chassis are available despite nerfs.

C'tis: A-. Magocracy. Hostile dominion
Pretender: Dormant: Neteret of Craft, Joy, Chaos, (off path) Many Names, King. Imprisoned: e9s4 Neteret of Craft
Research: Enchantment: 3-5, Thaumaturgy: 4, Evocation: 4,
Troops: Sobeks, light infantry, falchioneer, swamp guard
While C'tis dominion may look like a boon, it's actually a bane. Thankfully the dominion doesn't agitate most neighbors as heavily and discourages building forts at the borders of your dominion. On the other hand, it prevents you from making use of most indies within your dominion. Thankfully marshmasters are quite versatile with access to battlefield spells such as foul vapors (which you are immune to), as well as the standard death spells. Thaumaturgy allows communion as well as the very undervalued "Terror" at level 4. Finally, empoisoners are amazing assassins as animate skeletons takes care of most assassination battles. This lets you conquer difficult knight provinces by simply assassinating all their commanders before attacking with a single troop to force the rout.

Pangaea: A-. Troops nation, Bless nation. Freespawns.
Pretender: Dormant: offpath Rainbow titans. Imprisoned + scales: Idol of Sorcery, Sphinx, w9n9 Titan of Rivers, n9e9 Gorgon, f9e9 forge lord/statue of war,
Research: alteration 5, thaum 3, enchantment 4, evo 2
Troops: Minotaurs, White Centaurs, Revelers, Satyr Warriors, Centaurs, Centaur Warriors
Everything from EA Pangaea applies to MA save MA Pan's more specific path break between earth/blood assists them in this field. While Pandemoniacs are better blood hunters than the Pan of earlier age, they're still not great but serviceable for blood construction & rain of toads. Also due to the lower level of competition among sacreds in MA, Pangaea receives a slight boost here.

Aspodel: S. Freespawn nation. Dom kill
Pretender: Imprisoned w9n4-9 Volla, Idol of sorcery (varying levels of path)
Research: Construction: 4, Alteration: 5, Enchantment: 4, Thaum 5.
Troops: Satyr Warriors, Black centaurs
Aspodel is incredibly difficult to attack simply because of freespawns that absolutely destroy thugs/sc's with their sleep vines. In addition, dom kill + freespawn deters most nations from warring Asopdel in the first place. This often becomes a huge mistake as 100 gold temples ensures Aspodel can dominion push very effectively. Black centaurs are likely the only non mage troop you will be building (can also make a case for Satyr Warriors) and w9 makes them incredibly effective. Turmoil/luck/growth with a splash of magic is likely the scales of choice with sloth/heat assisting with points. You absolutely need to value Mother Oak highly as it assists you heavily in your national commander summons. Thaumaturgy five is for the inevitable Burden of Time.

Vanheim: S+. Troops nation, Thugs.
Pretender: Imprisoned: n9e4-9 Great mother, n4-9w9 Son of Fenrir, W9e4 Father of winter, Idol of sorcery + scales, e4s4-6n4 Monolith.
Research: Alteration 3, Enchant 4, Evocation: 3-5, Construction 4-x
Troops: Huskarl (spears), Einhere, Skinshifters, Van.
Vanheim's powerful troopline don't necessarily need a bless as einheres (skinshifters if resource is low) & huskarls are top class but Van/Valkyries are still great sacreds and the Vanjarl is a powerful thug chassis. Vanheim also has good versatility missingly only water thanks to dwarves providing Hidden Underneath/Sand spells. A herse prophet can also use a pair of flying boots to augment a blessed valkyrie task force. Vanheim's main weakness is a weak research recruit so early owl quills are something to consider. However, make sure to save air gems upon reaching construction 4-5 to save them for late game uses.

Jotunheim: S-. Thug nation, Magocracy
Pretender: Awake dom 9: Dracolich, Dormant: Bog mummy, Imprisoned: n9e4 Great mother, n9e4 Immursil, Scales Idol, e4s4-6n4 Monolith
Research: Enchantment: 4, Thaumaturgy: 4, Construction: 4, Alteration: 2, Blood: 3-6
Troops: Jotun huskarls (spear), Garmhirdlings
Skrattirs (wolf form to stealth) with shrouds & Jarls make up the thug lines. While it may seem strange to bill this nation as a Magocracy, Vaetti Hags are incredibly cost effective with only the n1's being difficulty to use. Astral gives cheap communions, death gives animate skeletons & ghost grip while blood make the cheapest MA blood hunters. Gyjjas are effective communion leaders with reinvigoration. While frost fiends are a good stop to start a factory for, ice devils add the extra SC power for this nation's mid game.

Vanarus: A-. Magocracy
Pretender: Awake dom9: n4 dragon, Wyrm, Dormant: Allfather, e4s4-6n4 Monolith, Imprisoned: Monolith: n4e4f1s4
Research: Evocation: 3, Alteration: 4, Construction: 4, Enchantment: 4
Troops: Chud Hirdman, Oathbound, Chud Skinshifters
Vanarus starts with a poor army for expanding. Without an awake pretender, this can be remedied by the Chud skinshifters. Sadly, due to the price tag of the werebears, they are overpriced for anything beyond expanding and should be steadily replaced by hirdman/oathbounds. On the other hand, Vanarus has great magic versatility and research though the paths are unreliable. The dormant monolith chassis is purely for potential master/slave matrix crafting which greatly helps stabilize Vanarus' mage line.

Bandar log: B+. Magocracy. Communion
Pretender: Awake dom9: f4 Dragon, e4b4 Devi of Darkness, Destroyer of Worlds. Dormant: e4b4 Devi, f4s4-6e1-4 Nataraja, Destroyer of Worlds, Impisoned e9s1-4 Nyorai, f9 Dragon.
Research: Thaumaturgy: 1-5, Alteration: 4, Evocation: 5, Enchantment: 7
Troops: Elephants, Tiger Riders, Atavi Archers
While Bandar Log starts with the awful starting troops as other monkey nations, tiger riders allow for a reasonably good expansion even without a bless. An e9 bless gives synergy to your summoned comamnding chassis to convert to thugs as well give tiger riders a sizable buff. Ultimately however, it should be easier to play with the various chassis that include fire. In particular, f9 tiger riders are vicious. In terms of magic, bandar is practically pure astral. Clam of pearls should be considered as it allows light of north star, power of spheres while cheap communions allows set ups of late game astral battlefield spells. Mid game astral research should be spread split between evocation for stellar cascade or enchantment for stellar focus. Note enchantment is also more helpful for a dormant Nataraja chassis as it gives many strong buffs as well allowing SC potential.

Shinuyama: B+. Archer nation. Magocracy. Kappa.
Pretender: Dormant: e4s4-6 Nyorai, e4s4a4 Celestial General, Imprisoned: a6e4s4-5 Celestial General
Research: Enchantment: 4, Evocation: 4, construction: 4-6, Alteration: 6
Troops: Daibakemono (longbow), O-bakemono, Bakemono Sho (8/9 Yari), Bakemono archers
The standard way to play Shinuyama is using the formidable Dai-Bakemono Longbow as tanks for your weaker archers standing behind. O-bakemono will also be serviceable as initial recruits when resources are light but should be discarded shortly after due to poor gold-effectiveness ratio. Note the 8 gold 9 res bakemono shos are NOT undisciplined making them ok for decoy squading. Archery mass with flaming arrows is powerful with this nation and alteration 6 darkness takes advantage of nation's darkvision. Kappas also allow underwater assess pretty easily and stealth raids can be done with bandit/bakemono archer armies. Finally the mujina is actually a fairly effective assassin thanks to fear and the shinji-doji can be used to thug thanks to lifedrain.

Ashdod: S. Bless nation. SC nation.
Pretender: Imprisoned: n9e4 Annukai of growth and rebirth
Research: Alteration: 4, Enchantment: 3, construction 4-6
Troops: Anakites
There's really not much to say about Ashdod. Their Anakites brute force anything in MA stats wise. Adons, Talmai Elders, Zamzumites can all do various degrees of SC/thugs depending on researching levels. National summons are worth consideration for late game especially Banquet of the Dead which replaces the need for Tartarians for this nation. If you had fun with Niefelheim, Ashdod will serve you well for MA.
entropius
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1046 Posts
October 16 2014 20:18 GMT
#1508
Shinuyama: B+. Archer nation. Magocracy. Kappa.


This is probably the only time "Kappa." has been written on TL and not been a lame Twitch meme.

Kappa.
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-16 20:29:27
October 16 2014 20:26 GMT
#1509
Kiss: Bears are terrible for expansion too, unfortunately. Lack of regen makes them worse than skinshifters by far due to afflictions (even with recuperation, they're just not good for it with current gold cost/limited numbers), and Vanarus is more gold intensive early on than most nations, between sages and the ability to set up early labs in forests (and thus early mage centers).

Recruit oathbounds over them 100%, even the medium infantry is better. Their expansion can be passable if you're good at scripting or luck out with barbarians or somesuch nearby, even without an awake pretender. The early game can be somewhat mitigated by the fast research curve and the correct research against the most common rushes.


In hindsight, would almost 100% recommend an E/S pretender. The All-Father-for-boosters-late strat I was trying out doesn't work terribly well and can't snowball the mages in large enough quantities, despite some of the hilarity it can throw out as a midgame SC. Communioning them up via matrix would probably have been significantly better, despite the lack of native astral/earth gems to fuel martices.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
KissBlade
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States5718 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-16 23:29:37
October 16 2014 23:16 GMT
#1510
I recommended bears early on because you simply don't have resources for the oathbound to make them work as effectively. 6 bears is 300 gold turn 1 sure, but at least it gives you a guaranteed expansion party.

PS. Your Allfather was fine tbh. I think you just overestimated your military strength. I honestly thought declaring war on Vanheim was suicide in TL5 from your position.
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-17 03:25:21
October 17 2014 03:01 GMT
#1511
On October 17 2014 08:16 KissBlade wrote:
I recommended bears early on because you simply don't have resources for the oathbound to make them work as effectively. 6 bears is 300 gold turn 1 sure, but at least it gives you a guaranteed expansion party.

PS. Your Allfather was fine tbh. I think you just overestimated your military strength. I honestly thought declaring war on Vanheim was suicide in TL5 from your position.

I could've made it work, but there were several major prevailing diplomatic conditions which fucked me. Additionally, Vanarus' medium infantry are more than enough to carry the expansion early on, though it can be dicy if youre starting next to knights and heavy cav.

Mostly Ulm keeping me from attacking Vanheim for like 5 turns after the NAP expired was what made the whole 2v1 thing fall apart.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
scFoX
Profile Joined September 2011
France454 Posts
October 17 2014 12:54 GMT
#1512
On October 17 2014 12:01 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Mostly Ulm keeping me from attacking Vanheim for like 5 turns after the NAP expired was what made the whole 2v1 thing fall apart.


Yeah, sorry about that, but you scared me shitless with your war-mongering diplo since we first met that game. When Ulm approached me for a defensive pact, it seemed only natural to accept.
Yuljan
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
2196 Posts
October 19 2014 19:57 GMT
#1513
Sorry guys im out in MP5. Going abroad for 2 months.
KissBlade
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States5718 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-20 00:37:10
October 19 2014 23:26 GMT
#1514
Alright * your nation has been subbed. Please do not post any information about your nation.

Your sub will pm you about your current diplo contracts.
entropius
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1046 Posts
October 20 2014 19:16 GMT
#1515
Trading D or N gems for A in TL3.
entropius
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1046 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-23 03:49:15
October 23 2014 02:38 GMT
#1516
Out-of-context conversation from TL Dominions skype chat:

+ Show Spoiler +


PLAY DOMINIONS. EAT PEOPLE. PONDER MATHEMATICS.

[10:29:12 PM] scipaeus121212: I actually rekt one of my provinces down from 10k to like 2k pop just from blood feast
[10:29:21 PM] scipaeus121212: because there was a dude diseasing my dudes in tl1
[10:29:52 PM] scipaeus121212: seriously though, how do you eat 550 people in one month
[10:29:54 PM] scipaeus121212: there's no way
[10:30:57 PM] Oliver Payne: i got a new eye
[10:30:59 PM] Oliver Payne: through eating people
[10:31:00 PM] Oliver Payne: that was rad
[10:31:14 PM] Oliver Payne: i had to pick through all 1110 eyes and find one that was good enough
[10:30:59 PM] Adam {killerdog}: that's only like 12 people a day
[10:31:03 PM] Adam {killerdog}: not to hard
[10:31:12 PM] Morinethar: well, when you're a 6 meters tall giant
[10:31:16 PM] Morinethar: not too bad
[10:31:20 PM] Morinethar: especially if you're picky
[10:31:24 PM | Edited 10:31:43 PM] Morinethar: and only like eat the chest
[10:31:32 PM] Morinethar: but spit off the intestines
[10:31:34 PM] Morinethar: and what not
[10:31:57 PM] Morinethar: you eat 2 at breakfast
[10:32:20 PM] scipaeus121212: one human should be enough to sustain you for maybe like a week at least, no?
[10:32:22 PM] Morinethar: 5 at lunch, 2 at the afternoon break and 3 at dinner
[10:32:37 PM] Oliver Payne: well if you're human sized
[10:32:39 PM] Morinethar: you're missing the point of gluttony, are you?
[10:32:40 PM] Morinethar:
[10:32:45 PM] Morinethar: but yea
[10:32:53 PM] Morinethar: and energy consumption increases quadratically
[10:32:57 PM] Morinethar: with size
[10:33:00 PM] Morinethar: (or more?)
[10:33:13 PM] scipaeus121212: the bigger you are the comparatively less food you need
[10:33:21 PM] Morinethar: which is why an elephant needs some 2 tonnes of food
[10:33:21 PM] Morinethar: what
[10:33:24 PM] Morinethar: sorry?
[10:33:38 PM] scipaeus121212: a grasshopper eats its body weight in like a day or 2
[10:33:41 PM] Morinethar: you're thinking *only* about heat dispersion
[10:33:44 PM] Morinethar: it's cold blooded
xuanzue
Profile Joined October 2010
Colombia1747 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-24 02:29:33
October 24 2014 02:28 GMT
#1517
I wanna organizate a 4v4 disciples game.

It gonna be with the community where I play: http://www.puntadelanza.net/Foro/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=56

vs TL

so the game will be PDLvsTL

are you interested?

selection of nations could use the dinamic of dota ban/ban/ban/ban/pick.....

and host could be 30 hours
Dominions 4: "Thrones of Ascension".
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12083 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-24 05:07:22
October 24 2014 05:03 GMT
#1518
Oh dang. And just when I was about to start the signups for the TL disciples game too.

1) What Age (assuming MA, but just in case).

2) What mods (preferably just Worthy Heroes)

3) HOW MUCH PRIDE IS ON THE LINE.

4) What map. Random?
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
gTank
Profile Joined January 2011
Austria2564 Posts
October 24 2014 07:23 GMT
#1519
It is all about honor and pride man! :D
One crossed wire, one wayward pinch of potassium chlorate, one errant twitch...and kablooie!
xuanzue
Profile Joined October 2010
Colombia1747 Posts
October 24 2014 11:59 GMT
#1520
On October 24 2014 14:03 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Oh dang. And just when I was about to start the signups for the TL disciples game too.

1) What Age (assuming MA, but just in case).

2) What mods (preferably just Worthy Heroes)

3) HOW MUCH PRIDE IS ON THE LINE.

4) What map. Random?



1.EA or MA because the pool of nations is bigger.

2. I prefer without mods, but jut WH is ok.

3 A brazzillion of pride points

4 pelywir ot the land of squirrels, parganos or one no-random of similar size.


Dominions 4: "Thrones of Ascension".
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