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On June 18 2012 23:06 Chef wrote:
The internet!
Also TL has always been elitist. Before there was SC2 there was GosuGamers.net and WarCraft III to rip on. Most of us saw the value in those things, but we also had legitimate criticisms of them that we took as encouragement to go another direction. I mean, you gotta be fucking kidding me if you think this is new for TL. This is what TL is and always will be. The SC2 community that is taking BW's place on TL is just as elitist and stupid as their predecessor. That is the whole point of an internet forum: you find like-minded people to jack off with about your favourite things, no matter how obscure and meaningless they are to the rest of the world. You make a random hobby like StarCraft that no one knows or cares about seem like the biggest thing in the world, and then you talk about it with people who think the same as you about how great it is and how much better it is than other stuff. The only issue is that now foreign BW fans have kind of lost that place to go where everyone thinks like you and it makes you feel right about your choice of hobbies. And SC2 players have the same weird contention in them, where they like SC2 and wanna talk about how its the best, but there's this weird BW community on the biggest SC2 site on the internet for some reason. Which is why I think that SC2 really should have had a new domain and website, like LiquidPoker did. But TL really wanted to assimilate BW into SC2, make sure the fans didn't get separated, and so now they have to deal with whatever this is.
This is how forums work. Everyone who has 1000s of posts, especially if they are long and well-thought out posts, should be deeply ashamed of themselves. And then realise it doesn't even matter cause everyone looks for like-minded people to make them feel right, on the internet or not.
Honestly, this analysis can be applied to every single group of nerds I've ever seen hahahaha. Great post Chef.
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You already are a bunch a elitist jerkfaces. You will be remembered as that because that's your very nature. Nothing you can do about it. When I read people who have been blessed of representing our community (because of their former work as translators, writers etc etc) shitting on everyone on the sole reason that they have come to love SC2, I lost all respect for them, and for the establishment who is backing them up (that includes you)
You want something to change GMarshal ? Start by stripping them of their privileges. 2Pac defending his veteran status and his rights to insult me because he was here first is un-acceptable. The bias towards the BW community has to stop. They have gone too far into hate to be forgiven anymore.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On June 18 2012 17:36 HawaiianPig wrote:
It's part of the grieving process.
Change sucks. BW for life, etc.
Call it a griefing process for the pun.
 I like that.
It's just not the same here anymore. It's different, maybe it's for the better, maybe for the worse.
It's just how things go I guess.
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On June 18 2012 23:53 Otolia wrote:
You already are a bunch a elitist jerkfaces.]You will be remembered as that because that's your very nature. Nothing you can do about it. When I read people who have been blessed of representing our community (because of their former work as translators, writers etc etc) shitting on everyone on the sole reason that they have come to love SC2, I lost all respect for them, and for the establishment who is backing them up (that includes you)
You want something to change GMarshal ? Start by stripping them of their privileges. 2Pac defending his veteran status and his rights to insult me because he was here first is un-acceptable. The bias towards the BW community has to stop. They have gone too far into hate to be forgiven anymore.
He has not insulted anyone nor is he in any way shape or form defending his right to insult you. wtf?
Gah the more i read your post the more it infuriates me.
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Australia1191 Posts
On June 19 2012 00:54 randomKo_Orean wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 08:26 GMarshal wrote:On June 18 2012 08:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:This blog makes me angry. Not only are you associating yourself with BW veterans when you joined TL two years ago (yes, join date on TL is a sacred thing), but you're also categorizing whole BW community with couple of comments from LR threads... (and except that first comment, other two comments have nothing to do with being a BW fan). Sure, BW fans are angry and bitter that the professional BW scene which they watched and loved for last ten years is gonna be no more. But we're mostly angry at the fact that it's not dying a natural death (loss of interest), but it's being killed by various, unnatural reasons (match fixing etc.). So while I'm not defending people who post stuff like that first comment you quoted, I'd just like you to realize where they're coming from. And yes, this once, feel free to send me angry PMs and 1/5 this blog. Solidify my thoughts. Prove me right, one way or another. This is also pretty childish. So whoever sends you angry PMs and 1/5 this blog is... proving you right? Give me a break. I'm angry and bitter that BW is dying. I actually cried when I realized that the broodwar professional scene was no more. I fully get where people are coming from. I'd like to think that the thousands of hours I've spent watching BW, the amount of threads I've read and the emotional investment i've had in the game make me eligible to consider myself a "vet", regardless of join date. I understand if you disagree though This whole blog spawned as a response to a lot of post I've been seeing *outside* of the bw section. I'm sorry this blog upsets you, because you are a person I very much respect, but my point stands that being angry doesn't justify these behaviors. I'm categorizing the whole bw community because this is what any outsider looking in is going to see. Go into the flash meme thread, or into any of the multiple threads that even mention BW and SC2 and all you see is a bitter attitude that overshadows any positive comments from any other BW fans. Negativity has a much larger impact than positiveness, and this is how the broodwar community is portraying itself, weather or not you want to consider me a member of it. Don't talk like you know about passion for BW. What 2 years? I've been in the scene since 1999 (CompUSA tournaments w00t w00t). That's 13 years. And if 13 years worth of dedication ended in death of BW scene, especially the decline started rapid with introduction of SC2, which you'd agree that it is an indeed an inferior game, then I have every right to be angry. And on TL, the amount of retarded users grew exponentially when SC2 came out, bringing down the quality of TL posts, who bashed BW without respecting its history. Don't talk like you are a "BW veteran," that you are better than "BW vets" for bashing SC2.
BW vet or not hes a better person than anyone who bashes anything, be it SC2, BW or Caeser Salad because he doesn't bash it.
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On June 18 2012 08:27 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 08:22 Kurr wrote:On June 18 2012 08:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:This blog makes me angry. Not only are you associating yourself with BW veterans when you joined TL two years ago (yes, join date on TL is a sacred thing), but you're also categorizing whole BW community with couple of comments from LR threads... (and except that first comment, other two comments have nothing to do with being a BW fan). Sure, BW fans are angry and bitter that the professional BW scene which they watched and loved for last ten years is gonna be no more. But we're mostly angry at the fact that it's not dying a natural death (loss of interest), but it's being killed by various, unnatural reasons (match fixing etc.). So while I'm not defending people who post stuff like that first comment you quoted, I'd just like you to realize where they're coming from. And yes, this once, feel free to send me angry PMs and 1/5 this blog. Solidify my thoughts. Prove me right, one way or another. This is also pretty childish. So whoever sends you angry PMs and 1/5 this blog is... proving you right? Give me a break. In every single thread I read that has anything to do with Brood War/SC2, pretty much every single brood war fan is wishing death on SC2. I don't go on the BW forums, this is just from the news sections and such and any thread on the SC2 forum even mentioning BW. I think this blog is justified and everyone who reads TL knows it. And in every thread like that, for every BW fan wishing the death on SC2, there's a SC2 fan wishing for death on BW, so BW pros can move on to their game and expand their scene even more (before the official announcement of it).
What? Not at all. I see far, far more posts from bitter BW fans trashing SC2 than I see trolls hating on BW. Many more. I agree with GMarshal, it's beyond ridiculous now. I love BW, and I used to love when new content was posted to the BW forum after it started slowing-down, but I barely venture in there other than for major news now because of how depressed everyone is there. It's hard to go a page without an anti-SC2 post even if it's an unlikely thread.
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On June 19 2012 00:58 ZodaSoda wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 00:54 randomKo_Orean wrote:On June 18 2012 08:26 GMarshal wrote:On June 18 2012 08:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:This blog makes me angry. Not only are you associating yourself with BW veterans when you joined TL two years ago (yes, join date on TL is a sacred thing), but you're also categorizing whole BW community with couple of comments from LR threads... (and except that first comment, other two comments have nothing to do with being a BW fan). Sure, BW fans are angry and bitter that the professional BW scene which they watched and loved for last ten years is gonna be no more. But we're mostly angry at the fact that it's not dying a natural death (loss of interest), but it's being killed by various, unnatural reasons (match fixing etc.). So while I'm not defending people who post stuff like that first comment you quoted, I'd just like you to realize where they're coming from. And yes, this once, feel free to send me angry PMs and 1/5 this blog. Solidify my thoughts. Prove me right, one way or another. This is also pretty childish. So whoever sends you angry PMs and 1/5 this blog is... proving you right? Give me a break. I'm angry and bitter that BW is dying. I actually cried when I realized that the broodwar professional scene was no more. I fully get where people are coming from. I'd like to think that the thousands of hours I've spent watching BW, the amount of threads I've read and the emotional investment i've had in the game make me eligible to consider myself a "vet", regardless of join date. I understand if you disagree though This whole blog spawned as a response to a lot of post I've been seeing *outside* of the bw section. I'm sorry this blog upsets you, because you are a person I very much respect, but my point stands that being angry doesn't justify these behaviors. I'm categorizing the whole bw community because this is what any outsider looking in is going to see. Go into the flash meme thread, or into any of the multiple threads that even mention BW and SC2 and all you see is a bitter attitude that overshadows any positive comments from any other BW fans. Negativity has a much larger impact than positiveness, and this is how the broodwar community is portraying itself, weather or not you want to consider me a member of it. Don't talk like you know about passion for BW. What 2 years? I've been in the scene since 1999 (CompUSA tournaments w00t w00t). That's 13 years. And if 13 years worth of dedication ended in death of BW scene, especially the decline started rapid with introduction of SC2, which you'd agree that it is an indeed an inferior game, then I have every right to be angry. And on TL, the amount of retarded users grew exponentially when SC2 came out, bringing down the quality of TL posts, who bashed BW without respecting its history. Don't talk like you are a "BW veteran," that you are better than "BW vets" for bashing SC2. BW vet or not hes a better person than anyone who bashes anything, be it SC2, BW or Caeser Salad because he doesn't bash it.
That's a pretty limited way to judge a human being. I would say not bashing anything is pretty low on my list of qualities I look for in a person. Sometimes its even a negative trait because it shows indecision and a lack of passion or drive. It is good when a person shows restraint in judging things they're not well-informed about, but bad when they are afraid to form real opinions and instead take the middle of the road half ass approach every time.
How that applies in this situation, is only to say that if someone says they find SC2 boring, I don't think that means their other contributions are less valuable than someone's whose contribution is bashing people who bash. I know very little about GMarshal, perhaps because he doesn't post where I can see it, or perhaps because he is too middle of the road to have a distinct personality on an internet forum.
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Eh although the hybrid LR threads are basically flame fests, I feel like it'll eventually die down once SC2 gets 100% implemented into the ex-BW Korean leagues, as sad is it is.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 18 2012 19:56 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 16:48 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On June 18 2012 08:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:This blog makes me angry. Not only are you associating yourself with BW veterans when you joined TL two years ago (yes, join date on TL is a sacred thing), but you're also categorizing whole BW community with couple of comments from LR threads... (and except that first comment, other two comments have nothing to do with being a BW fan). Sure, BW fans are angry and bitter that the professional BW scene which they watched and loved for last ten years is gonna be no more. But we're mostly angry at the fact that it's not dying a natural death (loss of interest), but it's being killed by various, unnatural reasons (match fixing etc.). So while I'm not defending people who post stuff like that first comment you quoted, I'd just like you to realize where they're coming from. And yes, this once, feel free to send me angry PMs and 1/5 this blog. Solidify my thoughts. Prove me right, one way or another. This is also pretty childish. So whoever sends you angry PMs and 1/5 this blog is... proving you right? Give me a break. This post makes me angry. 2006, veteran? I've been here since 2002, get off my lawn. What the BW community has become started sickening me a long time ago, and I've seen the same kind of decay in other games too... and it saddens me everytime. Beautiful game, but it's time for it to go - you are kidding yourself if you think it's purely SC2 or matchfixing's fault that its time is now coming to an end. It does kinda piss me off how elitist people who - comparatively - are complete newcomers (2-3 years) to BW progaming, can get -- Yeah, you started watching when Savior was at his prime, I watched Sync vs H.O.T and I still feel pretty newschool compared to the guys who used to post on here back then -_- I'm sorry FA, but that post sucks. It's time for it to go? Go where? Are you telling me I can't join ICCup and play a RvR vs Rekrul anymore? And besides, why is it the time for it to go away? Please enlighten me. Anyways, I'd like to point out that most of those idiotic posts from BW fans come from the threads where SC2 and BW are intertwined. And that's understandable (not justified), because the general atmosphere in those threads is usually dark and gloom due to yet another bad news for BW scene. But if you take a look at any other thread in BW community, you'd see that most BW fans are very helpful and just want to spread the awesomeness of their game. Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 17:59 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
People seem to think that justified anger equals it being okay to act like an idiot. No one thinks that... There are idiots in any community and no one is defending them. We're defending the rest of community who gets pegged as idiots just by being in the same community.
I'm not gonna be able to put into words exactly what I feel about BW, and maybe some of it comes from a distorted perception caused by stepping away from the game, but to me the BW scene has felt more and more hollow for years --- more people who watch but dont play, more gimmicks and showmanship stuff to attract attention, teams dying... Bisu/Flash/Jaedong/Fantasy/Stork were pretty much the top dogs when I stopped watching every single game sometime in 2007.... and here we are this many years later, and they still are.
WC3 had the same thing happen, I think, as the game started dying - same people on top forever. This is probably unfair, there were probably a fair amount of newcomers, and the BW scene could probably have gone on for another 2-3 years were it not for the extraneous circumstances you mentioned... but there is something to be said for going out, if not on top, then at least while still being able to walk on your own.
I guess I just dislike seeing something that was once so vibrant grow so stale and bitter --
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You're right, that isn't fair lol. There were a lot of good players ready to come into their own and overtake those 5. You include Bisu who slumped for most of those years. I would say that Soulkey Jangbi and some other key players were ready to take over if it hadn't been for extraneous circumstances. 2007 was so long ago I don't even know that Flash was anything more than the guy who cheesed Bisu out of an OSL and was bad vs carriers at that time... Savior was still playing and midas was good and a lot of other big players that died down to the big 4. Not that I think a players career span should be limited to 2 years.... That is just such a weird thing to say with Hiya's Terran stove and hive tech ZvZ and queens vs Terrans new bio -> mech build... give me a break. Things only got gimmicky when they started losing teams and having to play SC2 at the same time. Before that there were a lot of legit games going on and a lot of good A class players coming into being and leaving. You can't call a game stale because S-class players last a few years. Nal_rA and Boxer and Nada were around forever and going deep into tournaments for at least 5 years... And if you wanna talk about gimmicks and showmanship, Boxer and Nal_rA are your main event lol. Unless you mean one off events like all stars where they have a day of fun games -.-
I think you really are gonna need to try hard to analyse BW objectively, since the scene dying affirms your decision to move on from it a lot. Not to blame you or to say that you shouldn't have, you certainly found a good deal of success in SC2 and it's cool, but BW was not a stale game before they lost their practice time and came on hard times. There was still a lot of really cool stuff happening if you were watching.
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On June 19 2012 01:51 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 19:56 2Pacalypse- wrote:On June 18 2012 16:48 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On June 18 2012 08:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:This blog makes me angry. Not only are you associating yourself with BW veterans when you joined TL two years ago (yes, join date on TL is a sacred thing), but you're also categorizing whole BW community with couple of comments from LR threads... (and except that first comment, other two comments have nothing to do with being a BW fan). Sure, BW fans are angry and bitter that the professional BW scene which they watched and loved for last ten years is gonna be no more. But we're mostly angry at the fact that it's not dying a natural death (loss of interest), but it's being killed by various, unnatural reasons (match fixing etc.). So while I'm not defending people who post stuff like that first comment you quoted, I'd just like you to realize where they're coming from. And yes, this once, feel free to send me angry PMs and 1/5 this blog. Solidify my thoughts. Prove me right, one way or another. This is also pretty childish. So whoever sends you angry PMs and 1/5 this blog is... proving you right? Give me a break. This post makes me angry. 2006, veteran? I've been here since 2002, get off my lawn. What the BW community has become started sickening me a long time ago, and I've seen the same kind of decay in other games too... and it saddens me everytime. Beautiful game, but it's time for it to go - you are kidding yourself if you think it's purely SC2 or matchfixing's fault that its time is now coming to an end. It does kinda piss me off how elitist people who - comparatively - are complete newcomers (2-3 years) to BW progaming, can get -- Yeah, you started watching when Savior was at his prime, I watched Sync vs H.O.T and I still feel pretty newschool compared to the guys who used to post on here back then -_- I'm sorry FA, but that post sucks. It's time for it to go? Go where? Are you telling me I can't join ICCup and play a RvR vs Rekrul anymore? And besides, why is it the time for it to go away? Please enlighten me. Anyways, I'd like to point out that most of those idiotic posts from BW fans come from the threads where SC2 and BW are intertwined. And that's understandable (not justified), because the general atmosphere in those threads is usually dark and gloom due to yet another bad news for BW scene. But if you take a look at any other thread in BW community, you'd see that most BW fans are very helpful and just want to spread the awesomeness of their game. On June 18 2012 17:59 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
People seem to think that justified anger equals it being okay to act like an idiot. No one thinks that... There are idiots in any community and no one is defending them. We're defending the rest of community who gets pegged as idiots just by being in the same community. I'm not gonna be able to put into words exactly what I feel about BW, and maybe some of it comes from a distorted perception caused by stepping away from the game, but to me the BW scene has felt more and more hollow for years --- more people who watch but dont play, more gimmicks and showmanship stuff to attract attention, teams dying... Bisu/Flash/Jaedong/Fantasy/Stork were pretty much the top dogs when I stopped watching every single game sometime in 2007.... and here we are this many years later, and they still are. WC3 had the same thing happen, I think, as the game started dying - same people on top forever. This is probably unfair, there were probably a fair amount of newcomers, and the BW scene could probably have gone on for another 2-3 years were it not for the extraneous circumstances you mentioned... but there is something to be said for going out, if not on top, then at least while still being able to walk on your own. I guess I just dislike seeing something that was once so vibrant grow so stale and bitter --
I think it'smore a question of slower rotation rate. I mean, Flash started his carrier extremely young, so it's not surprising he's still here. Stork is more or less a NaDa of modern age in term of longevity, but he's the exception (and with silver medals^^). But there were definitely new faces recently, as Bisu has failed to get in a Ro8 for 2 years at least, and Jaedong was not the best zerg anymore. There were good rookies (this osl's group b had very promising faces, Mini is an amazing PvZer...), and people who took more time to solidify but who were amazing. I mean who was Soulkey two years ago ? He was clearly the best zerg recently...
I know there are a lot of veterans who felt like you did out there and regreted pre 2006 starcraft, but I think it had more to do with the scene solidifying than dying... And also with yourself getting bored with it.
I honestly think without those "extraneous circumstances", there was enough potential in bw for at least 10 years without it becoming stale.
As for your last line, I understand it, but why has it become so bitter ? Isn't it because of those "extraneous circumstances" ?
And yet, I'd like to believe there is still optimism and joy in people watching and playing this game. And as long as I feel that way, I don't really see a reason to move on.
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On June 19 2012 01:40 MooMooMugi wrote:
Eh although the hybrid LR threads are basically flame fests, I feel like it'll eventually die down once SC2 gets 100% implemented into the ex-BW Korean leagues, as sad is it is.
Don't mean to be rude but well no shit. The only reason i watch SPL is because of habit. I don't even watch with the hope that there might miraculously be a good game of BW. Thats for the optimists. I've tried to think positive about the hybrid league but now several weeks in i have to admit. Baby i've been faking my orgasms.
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Several months ago, the BW and SC2 fans kept to their own sub-forums. Recently, these two groups are crossing over and starting massive flamefests. The BW fans are having a field day criticizing every aspect of SC2. See this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345427 and look at how it has degenerated. On the other side, the ones who enter BW forums criticizing the game get promptly banned.
I have no idea who started all this mudslinging, but it seriously has to stop.
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On June 19 2012 02:30 Heh_ wrote:Several months ago, the BW and SC2 fans kept to their own sub-forums. Recently, these two groups are crossing over and starting massive flamefests. The BW fans are having a field day criticizing every aspect of SC2. See this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345427 and look at how it has degenerated. On the other side, the ones who enter BW forums criticizing the game get promptly banned. I have no idea who started all this mudslinging, but it seriously has to stop.
If you feel like criticizing a dying/dead game that already has proven it's worth, then go forth. But don't expect no backlash.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On June 19 2012 01:51 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
but there is something to be said for going out, if not on top, then at least while still being able to walk on your own.
I guess I just dislike seeing something that was once so vibrant grow so stale and bitter --
If you truly believe that, the last thing you'd want is this joke of a SPL that we have left for us as the final farewell for Broodwar.
The OP sounds whinier than every single BW and SC2 whine post put together lol. "1 star me and prove me right?" Come on GMarshal, really lol?
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On June 19 2012 02:34 blubbdavid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 02:30 Heh_ wrote:Several months ago, the BW and SC2 fans kept to their own sub-forums. Recently, these two groups are crossing over and starting massive flamefests. The BW fans are having a field day criticizing every aspect of SC2. See this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345427 and look at how it has degenerated. On the other side, the ones who enter BW forums criticizing the game get promptly banned. I have no idea who started all this mudslinging, but it seriously has to stop. If you feel like criticizing a dying/dead game that already has proven it's worth, then go forth. But don't expect no backlash.
Errr, did you read my post? I don't support them either. I want all this mudslinging to stop, and that requires firm action to be taken against every single individual who criticizes either game.
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There's a lot of sensitive snowflakes in the SC2 community. The witch hunts are proof enough of that. Moreover, they construe far too many things as "hating" and "bashing." They keep throwing the word "elitist" around like it's an epithet. Yes, I'm an elitist. I think BW is a better game. I think it has a better community. I think our perspective, coming from BW and seeing SC2, is more informed than a large portion of the SC2 community.
The fact is, we think BW is the best game, the best e-sport. Necessarily, that means we think SC2 is worse. Inferior. Inadequate, unsatisfactory. It is bad in comparison. Not as good. It was a disappointment. It could have been and can be better. If saying these things upsets you, is "bashing" and "hating" on SC2, is what you're calling elitism, then we don't really care. That's a problem with your sensitivity, and of course we're unapologetic for it. Many in the SC2 community have even voiced their agreement. And really, why wouldn't you want SC2 to be even better if it could be? Solely defensiveness.
You know what? I could make SC2 a markedly better game in less than five minutes and with hardly any effort. I can even perform this miracle with zero access to its codebase.
There's this strawman that pervades the OP and this thread. As a BW fan, I don't hate you for your freedoms. Love SC2 all you want, I don't care. I hate the ignorant neophytes in the SC2 community being the most defensive. The people who respond to every SC2-critical thread with, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. This is a strategy game. We don't want any of that spammy BW clickity-clack in here." Just read Barrin's super-thread on the breadth of SC2 and how he had to couch all of his ideas in the most benign language possible to assuage the ire of the BW-ignorant, and how he still got responses that amounted to "If you love BW so much, why don't you marry it, grampa?" Somehow this includes terrible, terrible damn ugh Dustin Browder. The future looks bright.
I hate that it's impossible to have any meaningful critical discussion without being shouted down by the BW-ignorant posting the same rehashed arguments that were refuted years ago and get reposted every 10 pages because they refuse to read the thread.
I hate the people who crow about "ESPORTS!" and lick their lips at the death of BW.
I hate the placatory platitudes. "They're totally different games!" No, they're not. Especially not when one is killing the other and cannibalizing its leagues, sponsors, and players. "But there's expansions!" Will they make it better with absolute certainty? What if SC2's deficiencies run deeper than a few new units can fix? Will it ever be as good as BW? Let's bet everything on a hope and a prayer, that sounds like a good idea. Forgive me if Blizzard has drained me of my hopefulness.
You say we hate the SC2 community. Maybe it only seems that way because there's so many deplorable and immature elements in it that we actually do hate. Heaven help us if we include Reddit.
Maybe the only reason you're writing about your "shame" of the BW community's handful of persistently spiteful posters, instead of your shame of the SC2 community's huge percentage of ignorant and immature is that you didn't expect better of them.
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I think the Broodwar community is still pretty good...
I can hop on a stream and discuss strategy pretty deeply with other fans and I can go on OP teamliquid and chat about random stuff and/or play games. People still respond when new players post in the strategy forums and we are getting more and more fun amateur events from competitive like the ISL to more casual and fun like Gem and Torrenhire SL.
Even though the fighting isn't so good, the reason for it is a lot of people still care. While that can lead to problems, it's also the best thing about our community.
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To be honest, even though I think many of the people on Teamliquid are intelligent, calculated, stable and empathetic individuals, I don't think we're above having emotions. I think human beings have a sense of tribalism, and at this stage in our evolution, it hasn't gone away. So yeah, I agree, "Let's all stop fighting and get along." I get that. I'm fine with it, like, I'll be saying "BW and SC2 are both cool!" and be at peace with it, but then when watching a BroodWar stream, someone will come in and go "Why do you guys still play this game? I'm not trolling, I'm just curious." even though the answer is so ostensibly obvious that the question is frivolous to ask. Repeat this a few dozen or hundred times, and it starts to make me think they're trying to piss us off. My imagination runs wild, envisioning a bunch of SC2 peeps in a chat group, colluding with one another in their boredom saying, "Hey, let's go into that bw streamchat and troll them and watch 'em squirm! Whoever takes the longest to get banned wins!"
That, compounded with this "transition" in the OSL just pisses me off. I'm sorry, it just does. I think a lot of people feel the same way, and find themselves slipping and lashing out at SC2 fans. I don't think it's right to insult them, ridicule SC2, ridicule the players, say that D- players are the equivalent of high Masters. I think BroodWar players need SOME kind of outlet to say how they feel about the state of the game though.
The reason I posted my blog post (if you're wondering where the hell that came from) had nothing to do with insulting SC2. It was like me asking, "If Blizzard made a new game that was profoundly different than SC2 (Because I know a lot of people love SC2), and the SC2 community completely died, wouldn't you feel the same way as BroodWar fans are feeling now?" I think SC2 fans would be appalled if, in some hypothetical future, someone posted saying that everyone should quit SC2 to move onto the new game because it will "help e-sports". There would be torches and pitchforks waving outside that person's house.
I really, really don't feel like you should feel "shame" for BroodWar players being upset about what is arguably the greatest game ever meeting it's end. That's a big thing. A lot of people have 10+ years of memories playing this game, and while it's just a game for some people, other people see it as something special, as something that has changed their lives for the better. When you have something like that, it's difficult to see it pass away, but it hurts when people insult the game as it passes away. The reaction you're seeing should not come as a surprise, even if a majority of the response seems to be entirely immature.
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EPT
