| Blogs > GMarshal |
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Gheed
United States972 Posts
It would be nice if a company came along and released a good RTS worthy of being a big time esport, but right now Blizzard pretty much has the monopoly with SC2. Personally, I find myself watching SC2 these days (when I do bother to watch it) just because it's on and I have some interest in the players, not because I have a deep love for the game. | ||
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AmorFatiAbyss
51 Posts
Denial-Anger-Bargaining-Depression-Acceptance | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
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Kerotan
England2109 Posts
I've been debating myself if I should reply to this, but here goes: I really got into BW around the GSI, actually having an internet connection and English commentary provided more than enough of a draw for me to try and watch every single game, PL,OSL,MSL,GOM and even go back and watch classic vods way before my time. As a result, I remember people shitting on all the newcomers that only came to TL because of Tasteless's plugs, people like me in short. Now that its been 4 years, and I'm a relatively old veteran of TL, I can't help but feel I shouldn't fall into the same trap as the people that once bashed me, I would like arguments founded in TL join dates to stop, Brood war has been such an influential part of my life, and I would hate to be the person that shits on someone, and devalues what brood war means to them, just because they only watched it for 2 years, likewise, I wouldn't like someone to devalue what Brood war means to me, just because I joined TL in 2008 and not in 2002. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
~~ This comes from someone who has had a fair amount of hate directed at himself on this website (although for very different reasons than what you describe), so it's not as though I don't know there are a lot of users on this site who can be assholes or very cruel, but like I say, it's not so simple as me just having once been new or anything. It is usually a conflict with who I am as a human being and my personality and generally holding controversial and unpopular sometimes critical opinions while at the same time being obnoxious enough to voice them. | ||
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Kerotan
England2109 Posts
On June 19 2012 03:59 Chef wrote: Did that really happen a lot, or was it like a one-off incident? I really don't remember anyone shitting on people for coming to TL because of Tasteless' GOM casts.... I guess it depends what part of the site you go to and how you act. Lots of people on the internet learn for the first time that you have to be humble when you are new to a community, be diligent in doing your own research before asking inane questions, etc. I mean your argument about not shitting on people for not having played as long makes sense, but too much sense to not arouse suspicion. Like in this thread it's sort of obnoxious for GMarshal to talk about how he knows what it's like for people who've played BW for 10 years, when he very clearly doesn't even have a vicarious understanding of it. So in that context, 2pac isn't shitting on him for having only watched 2 years, he's shitting on him for being presumptuous. If you follow a game for more or less half your life during all your most influential years of growing up it is not quite the same as something you got into 2 years ago because it was the predecessor of a new shiny game about to come out and you wanted to prepare for it. Ya your love for the game is real, but it is not the same kind of loss... So it's like... I dunno. Why would you even say that type of thing. yeah, you kinda do have me on that. I guess I'm just kinda nervous that in the future those 4 years of my life are going to be shit on and devalued by people that hold brood war as dear as I do, with the only difference being that they registered on TL before me. (I wasn't referencing Gmarshal or 2pac - I kinda just wanted to muse on my feelings of TL veterancy or the lack there of) | ||
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mangoloid
100 Posts
The level of incivility from the bw community has shocked me in the past few months. However sad or bitter they are, it is completely out of line to insult people in the sc2 community as they have. (The same goes for the sc2 community insulting bw people, but I have seen much less of this.) At the risk of sounding preachy: growing up requires learning how to deal with disappointment and pain (you don't do it by attacking others). It is good to see at least one voice speaking up from the other side. The bw community has represented itself badly in the sc2 transition, and I hope they realize that. Jokes about sc2 are one thing, but when it turns into anger and insults it is out of line. | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32277 Posts
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
I'm probably gonna write a longer response to this, but for now I have to sleep. | ||
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vndestiny
Singapore3441 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + And besides, just like Rekrul said, what else do they suppose to do. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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DerNebel
Denmark648 Posts
The BW vets are a dying breed, in video game terms they are almost from a different age. They are being made obsolete because they refuse to move on to the younger, shinier, Blizzard supported game. When Kespa announced the joint ProLeague, it was the first nail in the coffin, and the undertaker is already rasing the hammer for the next one, so of course the BW community backlashes. Theys stuck with the game, damnit, they stuck with it and the proscene organisations spat on them. I can put myself in their shoes as well, though I count myself as one of the luckier ones. I played DotA until I discovered BW and it just sort of took over everything else. The game was THAT good. When SC2 came out I played it. I played it a lot. I played it as much as I did, because I REALLY wanted to like it but just could not. I came to miss the epic moments that BW would have, even on the shittier ladder filled with smurfs, that just didn't exist for me in SC2. If DotA2 didn't appear, I would be one of the people who just wanted BW to keep being awesome and consistently got disappointed. Instead I luckily have a game that consistently gives me great matches to watch as a spectator and is incredibly deep and challenging to play. You know, or I could watch professional players 2base allin each other at DH summer. I understand the hate from the BW community and I sympathise with them. P.S. People still need to stop writing "SCToo". Hate the game all you want, that is just childish. | ||
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L3gendary
Canada1470 Posts
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T0MORR0W
United States101 Posts
Looking at both games, it seems fairly obvious to me that the level of play in SC2 has vast amounts of room for improvement, especially in the micro department. It would obviously not be the same KIND of micro as in BW, but it could be just as skill intensive and impressive. When it comes down to it, a fairly large amount of the stuff people hate about SC2 (when they give reasons for their hate) has nothing to do with anything that can actually be known for sure about the game itself, but rather just that BW has existed for far longer, and that more is known about it's strategy, or that the top BW players are the most skilled gamers in the world. Then we SC2 fans hear about how amazing the BW gamers are, and we see their amazing skill level and think "wow, wouldn't it be great if people that amazing were playing SC2?". No wonder we get so excited to hear that Flash or Bisu will be playing SC2. At least for me personally, it's not that all else equal I want BW to die. It's that I've heard so much about how far superior the top players are and I want to see SC2 explored to its fullest potential. Knowing whether that potential exceeds, equals or falls short of Brood War's will take time, maybe more time than SC2 will be popular for. In any case, the Brood War elitist crowd seems to be full of unfounded assertions with regard to the superiority of their game that has always confused me a bit. Nobody is saying that MC has more skill than Bisu, or that the level of strategy in the GSL is equal to that in the OSL, but why must that difference be attributed to something innate in the game rather than a difference in time played and skill level of individuals? | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
i agree with the OP, BW tlers have gone seriously downhill in the past 2 years to the point where looking at a BW thread is like playing a dota game on battle.net in terms of quality. | ||
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nbaker
United States1341 Posts
On June 19 2012 08:20 PrinceXizor wrote: Saying Join dates are sacred is kind of dumb. considering i used TL links to watch BW since 05 but never joined because i didn't PLAY the game and had no skills to contribute to the community, until i got sc2 beta that is, which is what i joined. I could be considered an SC2 TL member because of my join date, and yet i've spent 7 years watching professional BW and being a fan of the same players the people who made an account were. shared the same tears, anger and joy, and to have 2pacalypse say i'm an inferior member because i chose not to make an account 7 years ago, that's silly. But i'm only an example of a long time fan with a very recent join date. i agree with the OP, BW tlers have gone seriously downhill in the past 2 years to the point where looking at a BW thread is like playing a dota game on battle.net in terms of quality. The thing is, you didn't play or contribute while people like 2pac were. Just because you might have both been watching at the same time doesn't make it the same. Also, I'm not saying I don't believe you but it seems like everyone claims to be a long time lurker. | ||
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seodoth
Netherlands318 Posts
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10344 Posts
On June 19 2012 01:51 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I'm not gonna be able to put into words exactly what I feel about BW, and maybe some of it comes from a distorted perception caused by stepping away from the game, but to me the BW scene has felt more and more hollow for years --- more people who watch but dont play, more gimmicks and showmanship stuff to attract attention, teams dying... Bisu/Flash/Jaedong/Fantasy/Stork were pretty much the top dogs when I stopped watching every single game sometime in 2007.... and here we are this many years later, and they still are. I guess I just dislike seeing something that was once so vibrant grow so stale and bitter -- What are you talking about? The pre-Savior era was more absurdly top-heavy than the TBLS era. Nada, Boxer, iloveoov, yellow failing. For about 4-5 years. Also, random July peaks. Think of all the different starleague champions we've had since savior, excluding TBLS: Calm, Hydra, GGplay, ForGG, Effort, Jangbi, off the top of my head. In leagues there was tons of parity. It seems you're picking one year out of the whole sample size (Flash's six consecutive finals) and ignoring the retarded terran dominance between '01 and '06. What gimmicks and showmanship? Firebathero 5 years ago? Leta in a dress? Certainly the sc2 scene does not resort to gimmicks and showmanship either, right? Like using blondes in short skirts? Perhaps overblown signing announcements and preannouncements? Idra or incontrol? Twitter smacktalk?  | ||
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empty.bottle
685 Posts
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
I've been in tons of communities and seen tons of shit die. It sucks and its sad but you can't hate other people for what they enjoy its actually stupid. Its like yelling at someone because they bought a chocolate ice cream cone and the store ran out of your favourite vanilla. I for one tried to get into BW when I started watching SC2 but with the seriously terrible attitude a number of very vocal people had towards the SC2 side of TL, I couldn't get involved. I asked what an arbiter was and received a ton of pms and got told to go back to my shit game etc etc. I decided it wasn't worth the effort to learn if people were going to be so negative so I went back to my SC2 side of the forum.I enjoy watching BW from time to time and I know it sucks for you guys but seriously you can't discount an individual's feelings based on time they've been on the site. GMarshal hasn't followed BW since 1998, clearly he has no right to say he feels sad BW is slowly dying? Seriously 2pac I think you need to realise that how someone feels and how much they invest into something is personal. And GMarshall could have had BW be just as big an influence in his life as it was to you. Also realise that for many of us, SC2 has had an influence similar to the one you experienced with BW. I don't care about the merits of the games. The influence it has had is important to me and thats the key thing. Have respect for your fellow forum goers and those of us who are passionate about our game. You don't need to like sc2, you don't need to respect it but you need to respect US the people, the users of TL. We are expected to not make asinine comments about the BW graphics and respect how much you like the games, I expect you to respect our choice to watch the game we love just as much. | ||
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