Shame

On June 18 2012 07:49 Complete wrote:
wow you're d-? go practice!

On June 18 2012 07:46 GMarshal wrote:
I will never get to watch another OSL, MSL or any other large tournament with Fash, bisu, soulkey or any others. I won't get to see Sea make a comeback, nor will I get to see the rise of any promising rookies or underdogs. I won't ever be graced with seeing a Hive tech ZvZ ever again.

And yes, this once, feel free to send me angry PMs and 1/5 this blog. Solidify my thoughts. Prove me right, one way or another.

do you want to be remembered as a bunch of elitist assholes?

On June 18 2012 08:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:
This blog makes me angry. Not only are you associating yourself with BW veterans when you joined TL two years ago (yes, join date on TL is a sacred thing), but you're also categorizing whole BW community with couple of comments from LR threads... (and except that first comment, other two comments have nothing to do with being a BW fan).

Sure, BW fans are angry and bitter that the professional BW scene which they watched and loved for last ten years is gonna be no more. But we're mostly angry at the fact that it's not dying a natural death (loss of interest), but it's being killed by various, unnatural reasons (match fixing etc.). So while I'm not defending people who post stuff like that first comment you quoted, I'd just like you to realize where they're coming from.


This is also pretty childish. So whoever sends you angry PMs and 1/5 this blog is... proving you right? Give me a break.

On June 18 2012 08:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:
This blog makes me angry. Not only are you associating yourself with BW veterans when you joined TL two years ago (yes, join date on TL is a sacred thing), but you're also categorizing whole BW community with couple of comments from LR threads... (and except that first comment, other two comments have nothing to do with being a BW fan).

Sure, BW fans are angry and bitter that the professional BW scene which they watched and loved for last ten years is gonna be no more. But we're mostly angry at the fact that it's not dying a natural death (loss of interest), but it's being killed by various, unnatural reasons (match fixing etc.). So while I'm not defending people who post stuff like that first comment you quoted, I'd just like you to realize where they're coming from.


This is also pretty childish. So whoever sends you angry PMs and 1/5 this blog is... proving you right? Give me a break.

On June 18 2012 08:22 Kurr wrote:


In every single thread I read that has anything to do with Brood War/SC2, pretty much every single brood war fan is wishing death on SC2. I don't go on the BW forums, this is just from the news sections and such and any thread on the SC2 forum even mentioning BW.

I think this blog is justified and everyone who reads TL knows it.

On June 18 2012 08:27 2Pacalypse- wrote:

And in every thread like that, for every BW fan wishing the death on SC2, there's a SC2 fan wishing for death on BW, so BW pros can move on to their game and expand their scene even more (before the official announcement of it).

On June 18 2012 08:27 2Pacalypse- wrote:

There's a SC2 fan wishing for death on BW, so BW pros can move on to their game and expand their scene even more (before the official announcement of it).

On June 18 2012 08:26 GMarshal wrote:

I'm angry and bitter that BW is dying. I actually cried when I realized BW was no more. I fully get where people are coming from.

I'd like to think that the thousands of hours I've spent watching BW, the amount of threads I've read and the emotional investment i've had in the game make me eligible to consider myself a "vet", regardless of join date. I understand if you disagree though

This whole blog spawned as a response to a lot of post I've been seeing *outside* of the bw section. I'm sorry this blog upsets you, because you are a person I very much respect, but my point stands that being angry doesn't justify these behaviors. I'm categorizing the whole bw community because this is what any outsider looking in is going to see. Go into the flash meme thread, or into any of the multiple threads that even mention BW and SC2 and all you see is a bitter attitude that overshadows any positive comments from any other BW fans. Negativity has a much larger impact than positiveness, and this is how the broodwar community is portraying itself, weather or not you want to consider me a member of it.

On June 18 2012 08:34 2Pacalypse- wrote:

I can agree that the being angry doesn't justify posting stuff like that, but being angry makes you have those thoughts regardless of what kind of person you are. There are just people with little self control on their posting habits, but there are people like that in every community.

I got upset because you said you were ashamed to be associated with the BW veterans who love a dying game, and I am a BW veteran who loves a dying game...

On June 18 2012 08:19 ZoW wrote:

yes, yes we do

On June 18 2012 08:56 lFrost wrote:
wouldn't call yourself a bw vet if your join date is past jan 2010.. thats when tl started getting a massive influx of ppl because of sc2 beta

On June 18 2012 08:41 jpak wrote:


ZoW knows what's up!

On June 18 2012 08:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:
This blog makes me angry. Not only are you associating yourself with BW veterans when you joined TL two years ago (yes, join date on TL is a sacred thing), but you're also categorizing whole BW community with couple of comments from LR threads... (and except that first comment, other two comments have nothing to do with being a BW fan).

Sure, BW fans are angry and bitter that the professional BW scene which they watched and loved for last ten years is gonna be no more. But we're mostly angry at the fact that it's not dying a natural death (loss of interest), but it's being killed by various, unnatural reasons (match fixing etc.). So while I'm not defending people who post stuff like that first comment you quoted, I'd just like you to realize where they're coming from.


This is also pretty childish. So whoever sends you angry PMs and 1/5 this blog is... proving you right? Give me a break.

On June 18 2012 09:07 OpticalShot wrote:
So, what do you want people to take from this blog? Shame?

You wield a hammer here. You fully know that your blog posts will have much greater impact in the community simply for the icon beside your name and the power you hold with your title.

Lead us by example, GM. I'm not ashamed to be part of this community.

On June 18 2012 09:13 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
I can believe I catch shit for some of the things I post on here, but this blog puts my cynicism to shame.

First of all -- what BW fans? Everyone is gone. Mustaju (could never spell his name right), kona, DH, Zona... Some cameos are made Hyde, or GTR, but where are Roffles, LoLwip, StorkHwaiting, Megalisk(uuu)? It's gotten so bad that there wasn't even a BW LR thread for ACE vs CJ. Got that? No one wanted to spend 2 minutes to piece together an LR, myself included.

Here's something I told Ribbon a few weeks ago: of course SC2 and BW are directly compared in LR threads: They're being played side by side! We are expected to adapt to the full --> SC2 transition. This isn't like that STX league with that FPS and BW being played together. This is sequel and prequel, one being moved in, the other being pushed out.

And let's be fair: other than the "elitism" aspect, everyone's dropped out because the game quality has been quite awful, for both games. And there still seems to be no rhythm with the casters during SC2 matches.

No, I don't root for BW gamers to go over to LoL... I wish most of these gamers would quit and go to college or learn a trade, get lasting careers, not everyone can be a Reach or Boxer or January (team coach, team owner, etc.) when it comes to longevity in gaming careers. I hope the same for SC2 players, LoL players, and so on. They're just games at the end of the day.

I really wish they would just put my BW out of its misery. This joke of a league only hurts the players and the viewers.

On June 18 2012 07:46 GMarshal wrote:
And yes, this once, feel free to send me angry PMs and 1/5 this blog. Solidify my thoughts. Prove me right, one way or another.

On June 18 2012 08:37 GMarshal wrote:

Its hyperbole, I'm trying to get an emotional reaction. I'm ashamed to be associated with a bitter, cynical poisonous attitude, which is the point the blog was trying get across. I love the BW community to pieces. it has some of the coolest and best people I know, but a splinter group of that is essentially shaming all of us. I'm sorry that I didn't translate that point as effectively as I wanted and instead upset you.

<3

On June 18 2012 09:23 craz3d wrote:


That splinter group you are referring to doesn't really have any vets in it. I mostly see some new guys who joined the forum around the time SC2 was announced. A vet is a guy who's played the shit out of the game for many many years and continues to play the shit out of the game, not someone who has 10k posts in LR threads.

On June 18 2012 08:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:
This blog makes me angry. Not only are you associating yourself with BW veterans when you joined TL two years ago (yes, join date on TL is a sacred thing), but you're also categorizing whole BW community with couple of comments from LR threads... (and except that first comment, other two comments have nothing to do with being a BW fan).

Sure, BW fans are angry and bitter that the professional BW scene which they watched and loved for last ten years is gonna be no more. But we're mostly angry at the fact that it's not dying a natural death (loss of interest), but it's being killed by various, unnatural reasons (match fixing etc.). So while I'm not defending people who post stuff like that first comment you quoted, I'd just like you to realize where they're coming from.


This is also pretty childish. So whoever sends you angry PMs and 1/5 this blog is... proving you right? Give me a break.

On June 18 2012 09:42 figq wrote:
No, it is the rise of LoL.

On June 18 2012 09:42 figq wrote:
No, it is the rise of LoL.

On June 18 2012 10:12 figq wrote:
So you admit that LoL is more successful than SC2 and BW in Korea at the moment - and it happens to be on OGN, which inevitably leads to OGN reducing their RTS TV time. Which proves my point.

On June 18 2012 10:40 DropBear wrote:
Marshal it IS sc2's fault that pro Brood War will die. Blizzard actively killed it, this new game actively killed it.

Something that a lot of people loved has been taken away. Instead they try to forcefeed us something inferior instead. People are upset about it, how can you not understand this?

On June 18 2012 10:40 DropBear wrote:
Marshal it IS sc2's fault that pro Brood War will die. Blizzard actively killed it, this new game actively killed it.

Something that a lot of people loved has been taken away. Instead they try to forcefeed us something inferior instead. People are upset about it, how can you not understand this?

On June 18 2012 10:55 figq wrote:
But it did affect BW. The match fixing and lawsuits would not have led to OGN reducing their share of RTS so much that they remove BW completely, if not for LoL.

For me the major clues are:
- LoL since its inception is based on blatantly stolen concepts (from Dota and WoW), not even disguising it; their policy is making money off of established brands (something like Adibas shoes)
- LoL comes to Korea to headbutt itself into BW's place, because that's the most established brand of esports ever; and they declared as a major goal to get successful as an esport
- it takes BW's TV, it takes BW's legends, it advertises at BW's leagues, it takes BW's PC bangs, and the BW audience eventually

On June 18 2012 11:02 StorrZerg wrote:
As one of the people playing mafia instead of watching games at mlg, no offense to the sc2 guys, but mafia is fun shit.

Personally i don't have the drive to watch sooo many games anymore. Ill still watch semis/finals etc. fav players.

I personaly feel BW fans have a right to be upset with the change to sc2, It is a hostal take over. But these comments should not be fired at fans of sc2, or players of sc2. They are just watching and enjoying the game they love.

On June 18 2012 07:49 Complete wrote:
wow you're d-? go practice!

STX Coach Lee: I think Blizzard named their new game very well. If the name of SC2 wasn’t “StarCraft 2”, I’m quite certain we wouldn’t even need to have this talk right now.

On June 18 2012 09:13 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
I can believe I catch shit for some of the things I post on here, but this blog puts my cynicism to shame.

First of all -- what BW fans? Everyone is gone. Mustaju (could never spell his name right), kona, DH, Zona... Some cameos are made Hyde, or GTR, but where are Roffles, LoLwip, StorkHwaiting, Megalisk(uuu)? It's gotten so bad that there wasn't even a BW LR thread for ACE vs CJ. Got that? No one wanted to spend 2 minutes to piece together an LR, myself included.

Here's something I told Ribbon a few weeks ago: of course SC2 and BW are directly compared in LR threads: They're being played side by side! We are expected to adapt to the full --> SC2 transition. This isn't like that STX league with that FPS and BW being played together. This is sequel and prequel, one being moved in, the other being pushed out.

And let's be fair: other than the "elitism" aspect, everyone's dropped out because the game quality has been quite awful, for both games. And there still seems to be no rhythm with the casters during SC2 matches.

No, I don't root for BW gamers to go over to LoL... I wish most of these gamers would quit and go to college or learn a trade, get lasting careers, not everyone can be a Reach or Boxer or January (team coach, team owner, etc.) when it comes to longevity in gaming careers. I hope the same for SC2 players, LoL players, and so on. They're just games at the end of the day.

I really wish they would just put my BW out of its misery. This joke of a league only hurts the players and the viewers.

On June 18 2012 12:31 Motiva wrote:
As a rabid BW fan before SC2 I often find myself caught somewhere in this territory.

I feel like BW is the better game but that I could never go back for all the obvious reasons. So I keep on playing SC2. In BW there was no justified complaining about the game.. but with SC2 everyone has plenty to complain about even if they didn't play any BW and/or it doesn't fit their ideal of Starcraft-RTS... So I understand all of the complaining from whatever angle. Sometimes I even feel like a lot of the SC2 hate from BW vets is net long-term good for SC2, but the real problem is people spewing their nonsense where it doesn't belong. Low content high anger posts really only detract regardless of the rest and that's how i feel about it all.

On June 18 2012 12:35 Ideas wrote:


I don't mean to talk about you directly but the first part of your post reminds me of so many of my friends that switched to SC2 from BW. I always ask them why and point how how so many units are way cooler in BW etc and they always reply with "well it's easier to play" or "well SC2 has more fair units" and I always thought that was what made BW so great in the first part and why we all chose to play this old-ass game. I just can't wrap my head around that viewpoint :\ (again not saying this is what you are saying, but it reminded me of what my friends said)

On June 18 2012 13:50 Nazza wrote:
As a PLAYER of BW, not just a watcher, it affects me a lot more than just someone who casually watches BW. I won't have any more heroes to look up to, and there won't be any more maps that will be made. Atm, I can't pretend to say I like playing SC2, but that does not mean that I have hope for the future.

It's a really really rough time for BW fans as well as progamers. There are those of us who will run around with torches and pitchforks, and there are those of us who know to keep the fire contained. There's a reason why BW fans only post in the BW section, cause we know that there are alot of other people who share the same opinions. The reason we go around calling things "groundArbiters" and "rampStasis", and post up 100 Dustin Browder memes is cause it's humorous. Even in these dark times, BW fans have to find some way of letting it out. Imo, I think letting it out in this way is alot better than blatant hate.

On June 18 2012 11:48 EienShinwa wrote:
I think the situation is simply best described as how one BW coach said it. It was something along the lines of:

This is the statement and reason why SC:BW fans are having such a fit. Nothing more to add really.

On June 18 2012 09:13 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
First of all -- what BW fans? Everyone is gone. Mustaju (could never spell his name right), kona, DH, Zona... Some cameos are made Hyde, or GTR, but where are Roffles, LoLwip, StorkHwaiting, Megalisk(uuu)? It's gotten so bad that there wasn't even a BW LR thread for ACE vs CJ. Got that? No one wanted to spend 2 minutes to piece together an LR, myself included.

On June 18 2012 08:14 2Pacalypse- wrote:
This blog makes me angry. Not only are you associating yourself with BW veterans when you joined TL two years ago (yes, join date on TL is a sacred thing), but you're also categorizing whole BW community with couple of comments from LR threads... (and except that first comment, other two comments have nothing to do with being a BW fan).

Sure, BW fans are angry and bitter that the professional BW scene which they watched and loved for last ten years is gonna be no more. But we're mostly angry at the fact that it's not dying a natural death (loss of interest), but it's being killed by various, unnatural reasons (match fixing etc.). So while I'm not defending people who post stuff like that first comment you quoted, I'd just like you to realize where they're coming from.


This is also pretty childish. So whoever sends you angry PMs and 1/5 this blog is... proving you right? Give me a break.

On June 18 2012 16:31 Rekrul wrote:
didn't read ur blog

but kill urself

On June 18 2012 16:48 Liquid`Jinro wrote:

This post makes me angry. 2006, veteran? I've been here since 2002, get off my lawn.

What the BW community has become started sickening me a long time ago, and I've seen the same kind of decay in other games too... and it saddens me everytime. Beautiful game, but it's time for it to go - you are kidding yourself if you think it's purely SC2 or matchfixing's fault that its time is now coming to an end.

It does kinda piss me off how elitist people who - comparatively - are complete newcomers (2-3 years) to BW progaming, can get -- Yeah, you started watching when Savior was at his prime, I watched Sync vs H.O.T and I still feel pretty newschool compared to the guys who used to post on here back then -_-

On June 18 2012 16:54 Rekrul wrote:


but...talking shit about sc2 and being a bw elitist is fun

don't hate on us for hating, we love to hate, theres nothing left to do with our time now

why so 진지해 everyone?

On June 18 2012 16:58 tofucake wrote:

Go shit on Halo, not people who enjoy SC.

On June 18 2012 17:02 Rekrul wrote:


thats no fun

On June 18 2012 07:46 GMarshal wrote:

GMarshal, proud fan of broodwar and D- player, out.
And yes, this once, feel free to send me angry PMs and 1/5 this blog. Solidify my thoughts. Prove me right, one way or another.

On June 18 2012 18:12 JerKy wrote:
Im getting scared with all the mods gods flexing for one another D:

PS: What do you call someone whos followed the KR BW scene for many years (like since 2004 on and off, as I was a child) but was never a part of a community like TL?

On June 18 2012 18:12 JerKy wrote:
Im getting scared with all the mods gods flexing for one another D:

PS: What do you call someone whos followed the KR BW scene for many years (like since 2004 on and off, as I was a child) but was never a part of a community like TL?

On June 18 2012 18:26 Teoita wrote:
I am an sc2 "newbie"; i got into the game slightly after it was released, and i have been enjoying it since. I figured i can represent reasonably well your average sc2 fan.

Honestly, i don't like hearing "yeah sc2 fans are so happy bw is dead!". It depends, but on average, we aren't. Some don't give a fuck since they only heard some far away story about it, but never really cared about it, watched it or anything. Others, like me, actually got into bw with sc2. I have watched plenty of Sayle's casts, the last OSL season, the last two proleague seasons, plenty of vods (i even blogged requesting about the most epic games featuring reavers because those things are fucking awesome). Not much, but enough to understand that bw is an amazing game (as in the best competitive rts ever made), love it deeply, and feel sad for its demise.
The only idiots that post crap about bw bashing it, are the same morons that balance whine in ever fucking lr thread ever, the same that bash idra in his fanclub every time he loses to an 11/11, and post "im at work so i didn't watch the replay, but just macro better and you'll be fine" in a strategy thread. The are just that, idiots, and we really just shouldn't give a flying fuck about them, wether we are sc2 fans, bw fans, or both. The mods at TL will eventually just ban them all or force them to shape up.

The fact is, we enjoy this game, for different reasons. To me, right now bw is definitely the better game, and at the highest level of bw, the games are better, but it's just fascinating to see the evolution of sc2, the players getting better, and the game quality rising. Hell when i watch gsl season 1 sometimes, i think "shit i could have beaten these guys". We already have some games that are arguably as good as bw ones (i've recommended plenty in other posts). Maybe, just maybe, sc2 will never be as good, it will never have that aura. But maybe it's also acceptable that yeah, it's kinda a good game, and it might eventually get as good as bw is, so why bash it. Just accept it's different, exactly like Moba games are different from Rts for example.

I understand the rage and pain of the bw community, i understand that sc2 right now isn't what they hope it would immediately become, but eh, sometimes it kinda feels like vets are like old people sitting at a bar complaining about everything used to be better (no offence to anyone of course).

On June 18 2012 18:29 BarneyEX wrote:
I think that BW fans simply do not find SC2 entertaining and losing our source of entertainment that has accompanied us over the years has made us depressed. After watching occasional SC2 games since the beta until now, I could barely squeeze out an single ounce of entertainment as most of the games simply bored me to sleep, it was so bad until I actually fell asleep once watching a GSL finals.

On June 18 2012 18:29 BarneyEX wrote:
I think that BW fans simply do not find SC2 entertaining and losing our source of entertainment that has accompanied us over the years has made us depressed. After watching occasional SC2 games since the beta until now, I could barely squeeze out an single ounce of entertainment as most of the games simply bored me to sleep, it was so bad until I actually fell asleep once watching a GSL finals.

On June 18 2012 19:28 SirJolt wrote:
As much as there are bad elements, the best I've seen from the BW community has been this fantastic little rallying call that people are putting out. The little BW tournaments that have been breaking out have been a blast; sure, the level of play is nothing like what we were going to see in the OSL/MSL, but that doesn't mean there isn't a whole lot of fun to be had with it at the amateur level.

Godspeed Trozz and Torenhire (and anyone else putting together amateur BW stuff). You're making it great.

It's important to take the good with the bad, I feel.

On June 18 2012 16:48 Liquid`Jinro wrote:

This post makes me angry. 2006, veteran? I've been here since 2002, get off my lawn.

What the BW community has become started sickening me a long time ago, and I've seen the same kind of decay in other games too... and it saddens me everytime. Beautiful game, but it's time for it to go - you are kidding yourself if you think it's purely SC2 or matchfixing's fault that its time is now coming to an end.

It does kinda piss me off how elitist people who - comparatively - are complete newcomers (2-3 years) to BW progaming, can get -- Yeah, you started watching when Savior was at his prime, I watched Sync vs H.O.T and I still feel pretty newschool compared to the guys who used to post on here back then -_-

On June 18 2012 17:59 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
People seem to think that justified anger equals it being okay to act like an idiot.

On June 18 2012 15:48 ghrur wrote:
I consider myself a BW fan. I love it to death. I still play it a ton, and I'm trying to get into the foreign community, and I think it's fine right now. You're just looking at the wrong places. I think the DRTL, ISL, ASL, etc. threads are quite good generally. The ones with interviews and summaries are filled with interesting information. I also love the fact that we get ex-pros streaming on Twitch now. It's incredible. And I love the small, close-knit community feel that comes from it.

I abhor the fact that Korean pro-BW is dying. I feel like Ideas, in that I don't want to watch these players, whom I cherished and loved, play a horrible match that ruins my idea of them. Taekbang Leessang and Fanta are supposed to be infallible. They're supposed to have insane reaction times, builds, timings, etc. that makes me drop my jaw in awe. I don't want to watch a new season where they're just as mediocre as hyvaa or Roro or somebody. So I don't watch Proleague anymore. Maybe when they get good at SC2, I will for the players, because as Harem said, support the players, but for now, I want to keep my image of my BW idols. Because... isn't that what matters at the end of the day? Our pristine images of Yellow as the Storm Zerg, Boxer as the Emperor, OoV as the Cheater Terran, NaDa as the genius terran, Flash as God, and Jaedong as the Tyrant? I don't remember them as mediocre SC2 players or has-been BW players at the end of their careers. I remember them at their prime, and Korean BW's prime has ended. I'll cherish it well, but I don't want to ruin its image now. It's too late now.

To be honest, I wish Alethios's article were true. Korean BW wasn't downed quickly in its prime. Sure it was cut, but now, it's just bleeding a slow, agonizing death. I can't bear to watch my friend die like that.

That said, I don't hate SC2. I think the community's fine. The game can be entertaining. I like watching MLGs, Dreamhacks, IPLs, etc. I mean, there are too many games for my taste, but I loved the KeSPA invitational. I'm going to enjoy Dreamhack (GO TL!). I thought DRG vs Alicia was hella entertaining.

But it's nowhere near the heights of BW. Even games like Stephano vs Polt at MLG had stupid lapses of attention, poor multitasking, late reactions, and shitty decision making when compared to the pristine matches of Leessang-rok or Jangbi vs Fantasy. And that makes me bitter. It makes me bitter as hell. I can't believe such incredible games like Bisu vs Flash at the end of Proleague is being replaced by shit like this. YOU CAN'T EVEN FORCEFIELD CORRECTLY! But then, I get a sense of elitism. Ha! You can't play as well as our pros! They'll crush you! You just wait! And I totally understand how people are posting such hateful, spiteful messages in the BW threads. Hell, I feel the same way. Fuck you SC2 for taking my pros away and making them play such shitty games like that, filled with micro-restrictions and everything! Fuck you SC2 for taking away those beautiful BW News posts! Fuck you SC2 for taking away Stork's reaver micro, Jaedong's Mutas, and Fantasy's vultures! I don't even like Fantasy!

I don't post such hateful messages, though. There's no point. Pro-BW will die, and I'll have to accept it. I hate it, I hate it to death, but I'll have to accept it. There's no point to my hate either. It's all just emotional outpourings out of grief and sadness. At the end of the day, my hate doesn't mean anything. SC2 will grow anyway. My favorite BW players have moved on. I already watch the game and get tense excitement out of it sometime. Why should I post such messages when the SC2 community is filled with incredible people anyway? No, it's better to leave my rants and temper tantrums to myself, and it's better to just watch with joy as the foreign community tries to grow up again. To watch this new home grown community find a place for itself and earn sustainability, hopefully as well as the FGC. It's time to get some new heroes in BW for me, like Sziky, Sneazel, KC, and Pike. It's time to love whatever I can get as I watch Eagle and Larva stream, and hope for more like Mahell and Minho. Besides, I think having a positive outlook makes me happier too.

So, to wrap up this uber-long post, to hell with hate. I'd rather be happy.

Beautiful game, but it's time for it to go

On June 18 2012 23:06 Chef wrote:
The internet!

Also TL has always been elitist. Before there was SC2 there was GosuGamers.net and WarCraft III to rip on. Most of us saw the value in those things, but we also had legitimate criticisms of them that we took as encouragement to go another direction. I mean, you gotta be fucking kidding me if you think this is new for TL. This is what TL is and always will be. The SC2 community that is taking BW's place on TL is just as elitist and stupid as their predecessor. That is the whole point of an internet forum: you find like-minded people to jack off with about your favourite things, no matter how obscure and meaningless they are to the rest of the world. You make a random hobby like StarCraft that no one knows or cares about seem like the biggest thing in the world, and then you talk about it with people who think the same as you about how great it is and how much better it is than other stuff. The only issue is that now foreign BW fans have kind of lost that place to go where everyone thinks like you and it makes you feel right about your choice of hobbies. And SC2 players have the same weird contention in them, where they like SC2 and wanna talk about how its the best, but there's this weird BW community on the biggest SC2 site on the internet for some reason. Which is why I think that SC2 really should have had a new domain and website, like LiquidPoker did. But TL really wanted to assimilate BW into SC2, make sure the fans didn't get separated, and so now they have to deal with whatever this is.

This is how forums work. Everyone who has 1000s of posts, especially if they are long and well-thought out posts, should be deeply ashamed of themselves. And then realise it doesn't even matter cause everyone looks for like-minded people to make them feel right, on the internet or not.

On June 18 2012 17:36 HawaiianPig wrote:
It's part of the grieving process.

Change sucks. BW for life, etc.

Call it a griefing process for the pun.

On June 18 2012 23:53 Otolia wrote:
You already are a bunch a elitist jerkfaces.]You will be remembered as that because that's your very nature. Nothing you can do about it. When I read people who have been blessed of representing our community (because of their former work as translators, writers etc etc) shitting on everyone on the sole reason that they have come to love SC2, I lost all respect for them, and for the establishment who is backing them up (that includes you)

You want something to change GMarshal ? Start by stripping them of their privileges. 2Pac defending his veteran status and his rights to insult me because he was here first is un-acceptable. The bias towards the BW community has to stop. They have gone too far into hate to be forgiven anymore.

On June 19 2012 00:54 randomKo_Orean wrote:


Don't talk like you know about passion for BW. What 2 years? I've been in the scene since 1999 (CompUSA tournaments w00t w00t). That's 13 years.

And if 13 years worth of dedication ended in death of BW scene, especially the decline started rapid with introduction of SC2, which you'd agree that it is an indeed an inferior game, then I have every right to be angry. And on TL, the amount of retarded users grew exponentially when SC2 came out, bringing down the quality of TL posts, who bashed BW without respecting its history.

Don't talk like you are a "BW veteran," that you are better than "BW vets" for bashing SC2.

On June 18 2012 08:27 2Pacalypse- wrote:

And in every thread like that, for every BW fan wishing the death on SC2, there's a SC2 fan wishing for death on BW, so BW pros can move on to their game and expand their scene even more (before the official announcement of it).

On June 19 2012 00:58 ZodaSoda wrote:


BW vet or not hes a better person than anyone who bashes anything, be it SC2, BW or Caeser Salad because he doesn't bash it.

On June 18 2012 19:56 2Pacalypse- wrote:

I'm sorry FA, but that post sucks. It's time for it to go? Go where? Are you telling me I can't join ICCup and play a RvR vs Rekrul anymore?
And besides, why is it the time for it to go away? Please enlighten me.

Anyways, I'd like to point out that most of those idiotic posts from BW fans come from the threads where SC2 and BW are intertwined. And that's understandable (not justified), because the general atmosphere in those threads is usually dark and gloom due to yet another bad news for BW scene.

But if you take a look at any other thread in BW community, you'd see that most BW fans are very helpful and just want to spread the awesomeness of their game.


No one thinks that...

There are idiots in any community and no one is defending them. We're defending the rest of community who gets pegged as idiots just by being in the same community.

On June 19 2012 01:51 Liquid`Jinro wrote:

I'm not gonna be able to put into words exactly what I feel about BW, and maybe some of it comes from a distorted perception caused by stepping away from the game, but to me the BW scene has felt more and more hollow for years --- more people who watch but dont play, more gimmicks and showmanship stuff to attract attention, teams dying... Bisu/Flash/Jaedong/Fantasy/Stork were pretty much the top dogs when I stopped watching every single game sometime in 2007.... and here we are this many years later, and they still are.

WC3 had the same thing happen, I think, as the game started dying - same people on top forever. This is probably unfair, there were probably a fair amount of newcomers, and the BW scene could probably have gone on for another 2-3 years were it not for the extraneous circumstances you mentioned... but there is something to be said for going out, if not on top, then at least while still being able to walk on your own.

I guess I just dislike seeing something that was once so vibrant grow so stale and bitter --

On June 19 2012 01:40 MooMooMugi wrote:
Eh although the hybrid LR threads are basically flame fests, I feel like it'll eventually die down once SC2 gets 100% implemented into the ex-BW Korean leagues, as sad is it is.

On June 19 2012 02:30 Heh_ wrote:
Several months ago, the BW and SC2 fans kept to their own sub-forums. Recently, these two groups are crossing over and starting massive flamefests. The BW fans are having a field day criticizing every aspect of SC2. See this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345427 and look at how it has degenerated. On the other side, the ones who enter BW forums criticizing the game get promptly banned.

I have no idea who started all this mudslinging, but it seriously has to stop.

On June 19 2012 01:51 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
but there is something to be said for going out, if not on top, then at least while still being able to walk on your own.

I guess I just dislike seeing something that was once so vibrant grow so stale and bitter --

On June 19 2012 02:34 blubbdavid wrote:

If you feel like criticizing a dying/dead game that already has proven it's worth, then go forth. But don't expect no backlash.

On June 19 2012 03:59 Chef wrote:
Did that really happen a lot, or was it like a one-off incident? I really don't remember anyone shitting on people for coming to TL because of Tasteless' GOM casts.... I guess it depends what part of the site you go to and how you act. Lots of people on the internet learn for the first time that you have to be humble when you are new to a community, be diligent in doing your own research before asking inane questions, etc. I mean your argument about not shitting on people for not having played as long makes sense, but too much sense to not arouse suspicion. Like in this thread it's sort of obnoxious for GMarshal to talk about how he knows what it's like for people who've played BW for 10 years, when he very clearly doesn't even have a vicarious understanding of it. So in that context, 2pac isn't shitting on him for having only watched 2 years, he's shitting on him for being presumptuous. If you follow a game for more or less half your life during all your most influential years of growing up it is not quite the same as something you got into 2 years ago because it was the predecessor of a new shiny game about to come out and you wanted to prepare for it. Ya your love for the game is real, but it is not the same kind of loss... So it's like... I dunno. Why would you even say that type of thing.

On June 19 2012 08:20 PrinceXizor wrote:
Saying Join dates are sacred is kind of dumb. considering i used TL links to watch BW since 05 but never joined because i didn't PLAY the game and had no skills to contribute to the community, until i got sc2 beta that is, which is what i joined. I could be considered an SC2 TL member because of my join date, and yet i've spent 7 years watching professional BW and being a fan of the same players the people who made an account were. shared the same tears, anger and joy, and to have 2pacalypse say i'm an inferior member because i chose not to make an account 7 years ago, that's silly. But i'm only an example of a long time fan with a very recent join date.

i agree with the OP, BW tlers have gone seriously downhill in the past 2 years to the point where looking at a BW thread is like playing a dota game on battle.net in terms of quality.

On June 19 2012 01:51 Liquid`Jinro wrote:

I'm not gonna be able to put into words exactly what I feel about BW, and maybe some of it comes from a distorted perception caused by stepping away from the game, but to me the BW scene has felt more and more hollow for years --- more people who watch but dont play, more gimmicks and showmanship stuff to attract attention, teams dying... Bisu/Flash/Jaedong/Fantasy/Stork were pretty much the top dogs when I stopped watching every single game sometime in 2007.... and here we are this many years later, and they still are.

I guess I just dislike seeing something that was once so vibrant grow so stale and bitter --

On June 19 2012 12:29 ZeromuS wrote:
I agree. When SC2 comes to its end I can only hope I don't succumb to spewing vitriol at others for enjoying something new.

On June 18 2012 08:19 ZoW wrote:

yes, yes we do

On June 19 2012 12:29 ZeromuS wrote:
I agree. When SC2 comes to its end I can only hope I don't succumb to spewing vitriol at others for enjoying something new.

I've been in tons of communities and seen tons of shit die. It sucks and its sad but you can't hate other people for what they enjoy its actually stupid.

Its like yelling at someone because they bought a chocolate ice cream cone and the store ran out of your favourite vanilla.

I for one tried to get into BW when I started watching SC2 but with the seriously terrible attitude a number of very vocal people had towards the SC2 side of TL, I couldn't get involved. I asked what an arbiter was and received a ton of pms and got told to go back to my shit game etc etc.

I decided it wasn't worth the effort to learn if people were going to be so negative so I went back to my SC2 side of the forum.I enjoy watching BW from time to time and I know it sucks for you guys but seriously you can't discount an individual's feelings based on time they've been on the site.

GMarshal hasn't followed BW since 1998, clearly he has no right to say he feels sad BW is slowly dying? Seriously 2pac I think you need to realise that how someone feels and how much they invest into something is personal. And GMarshall could have had BW be just as big an influence in his life as it was to you.

Also realise that for many of us, SC2 has had an influence similar to the one you experienced with BW. I don't care about the merits of the games. The influence it has had is important to me and thats the key thing. Have respect for your fellow forum goers and those of us who are passionate about our game. You don't need to like sc2, you don't need to respect it but you need to respect US the people, the users of TL.

We are expected to not make asinine comments about the BW graphics and respect how much you like the games, I expect you to respect our choice to watch the game we love just as much.

On June 18 2012 08:19 ZoW wrote:

yes, yes we do

On June 19 2012 12:29 ZeromuS wrote:
I agree. When SC2 comes to its end I can only hope I don't succumb to spewing vitriol at others for enjoying something new.

I've been in tons of communities and seen tons of shit die. It sucks and its sad but you can't hate other people for what they enjoy its actually stupid.

Its like yelling at someone because they bought a chocolate ice cream cone and the store ran out of your favourite vanilla.

I for one tried to get into BW when I started watching SC2 but with the seriously terrible attitude a number of very vocal people had towards the SC2 side of TL, I couldn't get involved. I asked what an arbiter was and received a ton of pms and got told to go back to my shit game etc etc.

I decided it wasn't worth the effort to learn if people were going to be so negative so I went back to my SC2 side of the forum.I enjoy watching BW from time to time and I know it sucks for you guys but seriously you can't discount an individual's feelings based on time they've been on the site.

GMarshal hasn't followed BW since 1998, clearly he has no right to say he feels sad BW is slowly dying? Seriously 2pac I think you need to realise that how someone feels and how much they invest into something is personal. And GMarshall could have had BW be just as big an influence in his life as it was to you.

Also realise that for many of us, SC2 has had an influence similar to the one you experienced with BW. I don't care about the merits of the games. The influence it has had is important to me and thats the key thing. Have respect for your fellow forum goers and those of us who are passionate about our game. You don't need to like sc2, you don't need to respect it but you need to respect US the people, the users of TL.

We are expected to not make asinine comments about the BW graphics and respect how much you like the games, I expect you to respect our choice to watch the game we love just as much.

On June 19 2012 13:46 Zergneedsfood wrote:


I stand with Zow.

On June 19 2012 15:09 Blennd wrote:

That's fine, just don't get mad when people call pathetic people pathetic.

On June 19 2012 15:09 Blennd wrote:

That's fine, just don't get mad when people call pathetic people pathetic.

On June 19 2012 12:29 ZeromuS wrote:
I agree. When SC2 comes to its end I can only hope I don't succumb to spewing vitriol at others for enjoying something new.

I've been in tons of communities and seen tons of shit die. It sucks and its sad but you can't hate other people for what they enjoy its actually stupid.

Its like yelling at someone because they bought a chocolate ice cream cone and the store ran out of your favourite vanilla.

I for one tried to get into BW when I started watching SC2 but with the seriously terrible attitude a number of very vocal people had towards the SC2 side of TL, I couldn't get involved. I asked what an arbiter was and received a ton of pms and got told to go back to my shit game etc etc.

I decided it wasn't worth the effort to learn if people were going to be so negative so I went back to my SC2 side of the forum.I enjoy watching BW from time to time and I know it sucks for you guys but seriously you can't discount an individual's feelings based on time they've been on the site.

GMarshal hasn't followed BW since 1998, clearly he has no right to say he feels sad BW is slowly dying? Seriously 2pac I think you need to realise that how someone feels and how much they invest into something is personal. And GMarshall could have had BW be just as big an influence in his life as it was to you.

Also realise that for many of us, SC2 has had an influence similar to the one you experienced with BW. I don't care about the merits of the games. The influence it has had is important to me and thats the key thing. Have respect for your fellow forum goers and those of us who are passionate about our game. You don't need to like sc2, you don't need to respect it but you need to respect US the people, the users of TL.

We are expected to not make asinine comments about the BW graphics and respect how much you like the games, I expect you to respect our choice to watch the game we love just as much.

On June 19 2012 17:12 Xenocide_Knight wrote:
It's like seeing your favorite and best prize fighter lose to some amateur because he was poisoned before the match. Imagine how angry you would be if Maximus lost to Commodus at the end of Gladiator. Or if V bled to death before managing to kill Creedy in V for Vendetta.

If you don't see how sc2 is directly responsible for the end of BW, you are blind. Elitist is fine for my label, and so is asshole. Just know you're calling us that on a website built from the ground up on BW. SC2 has really contributed nothing I wanted to this community.

On June 19 2012 17:32 Funnytoss wrote:


Yes, but this is all secondary to the point GMarshal was attempting to make.

I really dislike SC2's gameplay, and I was extremely hyped for the game before it was released, but ended up sticking with BW for various reasons. I also hate that Kespa basically shit all over BW to bolster support for SC2, and I think the hybrid proleague was a terrible position, and would rather Brood War go out on top.

HOWEVER, this doesn't give me the right to take all this frustration out on the SC2 Community. It may be the fault of their favorite game that BW is being killed off, but it's not *their* fault. And while it may seem disrespectful for them to be so excited for Kespa players to switch to BW, since it's also something for us to grieve, it's also completely understandable. I hate that while foreign BW is still entertaining, there's so much pettiness flung around, with grudges and fights being dragged out forever, hurting an already small community. I know of many people who are extremely helpful to those coming from SC2 wanting to try out BW, and that's exactly what we should be doing. SC2 built off of something BW started, and TL owes a lot to it. We should be upholding the reputation for excellence that this site deserves, not lashing out at each other.

On June 19 2012 17:32 Funnytoss wrote:


Yes, but this is all secondary to the point GMarshal was attempting to make.

I really dislike SC2's gameplay, and I was extremely hyped for the game before it was released, but ended up sticking with BW for various reasons. I also hate that Kespa basically shit all over BW to bolster support for SC2, and I think the hybrid proleague was a terrible position, and would rather Brood War go out on top.

HOWEVER, this doesn't give me the right to take all this frustration out on the SC2 Community. It may be the fault of their favorite game that BW is being killed off, but it's not *their* fault. And while it may seem disrespectful for them to be so excited for Kespa players to switch to BW, since it's also something for us to grieve, it's also completely understandable. I hate that while foreign BW is still entertaining, there's so much pettiness flung around, with grudges and fights being dragged out forever, hurting an already small community. I know of many people who are extremely helpful to those coming from SC2 wanting to try out BW, and that's exactly what we should be doing. SC2 built off of something BW started, and TL owes a lot to it. We should be upholding the reputation for excellence that this site deserves, not lashing out at each other.

On June 19 2012 18:35 Kreb wrote:
Good read. The main point is good, even though the ending "rate 1/5 to prove me" was unnecessary.

Off topic:
+ Show Spoiler +

On June 19 2012 18:35 Kreb wrote:
Good read. The main point is good, even though the ending "rate 1/5 to prove me" was unnecessary.

Off topic:
+ Show Spoiler +

On June 19 2012 18:57 Xenocide_Knight wrote:

Except it's completely justified. Join date = summer 2010 is probably joined purely to get a beta key. join date >2010 is probably everything they know about BW is stuff they've read in BWvsSC2 threads while they post "give it time" nonsense. I can see from your post history that you take pretty much 0 interest in BW.

On June 19 2012 18:57 Xenocide_Knight wrote:

Except it's completely justified. Join date = summer 2010 is probably joined purely to get a beta key. join date >2010 is probably everything they know about BW is stuff they've read in BWvsSC2 threads while they post "give it time" nonsense. I can see from your post history that you take pretty much 0 interest in BW.

Don't mistake our elitism. It comes from BW > sc2 and nothing more. Join date just tells us the likely hood of you being an sc2 player. Pre-sc2, I remember very very little join date relevance other than "wow, 2002 you oldschool".

Plus, what's inherently wrong with that argument. In terms of probability, older join date = more sc played(hence more skilled), more contributed to the community, more importance to the community. If you haven't noticed, that's also how real life works. Longer time = more experience = more value. Generally speaking of course.

On June 18 2012 17:56 ]343[ wrote:
I still think that with the exception of a small [but vocal] minority, BW fans are angry that:
1) BW is dead (and I'm still pretty sure the primary reasons, or at least catalysts, for that are matchfixing + Blizzard's pushing of SC2), and

sc2 players/traitors

On June 18 2012 17:59 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
People seem to think that justified anger equals it being okay to act like an idiot.

On June 19 2012 15:09 Blennd wrote:

That's fine, just don't get mad when people call pathetic people pathetic.

On June 19 2012 23:14 arioch wrote:
A very interesting and poignant read from the PoV of a broodwar fan, thanks. I agree with everything you have said.

I would like to say that I joined TL when the SC2 beta came out. I (like almost every gamer in their early 30s) played Star1 and BW when they were released, did a few games online with friends and never really cared about korean esports other than knowing it existed. But since joining I have always been struck by the strangely aggressive views of the "die-hard" bw fans intent on lording it up over newcomers.

From the point of view of someone new coming into the scene, (and I say new when I have been a member for over 2 years!) It seems like a weird and childish form of elitism... "My game is better than your game and nothing you say will change my opinion!" Gaming is my chosen form of entertainment in lieu of watching tv or films every night. I certainly do not hunt down fans of a TV series I dislike and tell them how shit they are constantly, which is what these trolls seem intent on doing.

It is sad for you guys I know, but your BW forums are so elitist and "butt-hurt" that I know non-TL members who actually come to the website just to browse the threads in there for a laugh...

I am sure it will all die out eventually - I would love to get some of these people to sit down with me and watch MKP vs Symbol from this mornings GSL and tell me exactly why that incredibly high level and exciting all-action macro game is terrible, and what they need to do precisely to fix it. Unfortunately it seems these people have already decided that their TL existence should be devoted to being elitist assholes to other innocent bemused gamers, simply because the can.

On June 19 2012 02:02 Chef wrote:
You're right, that isn't fair lol. There were a lot of good players ready to come into their own and overtake those 5. You include Bisu who slumped for most of those years. I would say that Soulkey Jangbi and some other key players were ready to take over if it hadn't been for extraneous circumstances. 2007 was so long ago I don't even know that Flash was anything more than the guy who cheesed Bisu out of an OSL and was bad vs carriers at that time... Savior was still playing and midas was good and a lot of other big players that died down to the big 4. Not that I think a players career span should be limited to 2 years.... That is just such a weird thing to say with Hiya's Terran stove and hive tech ZvZ and queens vs Terrans new bio -> mech build... give me a break. Things only got gimmicky when they started losing teams and having to play SC2 at the same time. Before that there were a lot of legit games going on and a lot of good A class players coming into being and leaving. You can't call a game stale because S-class players last a few years. Nal_rA and Boxer and Nada were around forever and going deep into tournaments for at least 5 years... And if you wanna talk about gimmicks and showmanship, Boxer and Nal_rA are your main event lol. Unless you mean one off events like all stars where they have a day of fun games -.-

I think you really are gonna need to try hard to analyse BW objectively, since the scene dying affirms your decision to move on from it a lot. Not to blame you or to say that you shouldn't have, you certainly found a good deal of success in SC2 and it's cool, but BW was not a stale game before they lost their practice time and came on hard times. There was still a lot of really cool stuff happening if you were watching.

On June 19 2012 07:42 T0MORR0W wrote:
As a newbie that has observed these things, what has always confused me is the unqualified assertion that BW is the "better" game, usually on grounds that the strategy is deeper, units take more skill to control, or whatever. What I wonder is "how can you say that?". Have all of these people who say that SC2 micro is a joke, or that the game lacks depth actually experienced or observed it's full potential? If so, I would like for them to hook me up with a pass to the league they're watching.

On June 19 2012 22:43 floor exercise wrote:
SC2 community brings a lot of this on themselves. Just look at how desperately they've wanted to disprove LoL stream numbers when it turns out to be the more popular game, making up lies and then willing them into truth like "oh the lol client is counting every player as a stream viewer"

Or look at stream chats / TL threads when a game like Dota or LoL precedes a SC2 final like Dreamhack. They go full retard and start dismissing the game, whatever it is, and making sweeping claims like it's not as good for spectators, it's hard to follow, etc, without knowing a thing about it. Not just on streams but right here as well.

Almost everything they do is that doesn't relate to SC2 anti-ESPORTS and yet ESPORTS is their mantra at the same time. It's ridiculous. Most BW fans would watch War3, CS, etc at the rare few tournaments we got a bit of every game. Yes rivalry existed with War3 but not to the extent that the average SC2 fan seems to want every single game out of their personal ESPORTS space.

That's the behaviour people should be ranting about, not the bitter resentment of the small, completely inconsequential BW fans (sorry guys it's true, we don't matter any more, we've been marginalized). It's far more disruptive to ESPORTS as an industry

On June 20 2012 00:15 Operations wrote:
Why is it ok that people who don't even play the game declare it dead?
it's actually quite the opposite, all the d and d- horde shifted to sc2, that is a good thing for bw. you say foreign talents? well they are just money and fame hungry nerds. scbw is left with real men and true gamers, because we don't need hordes of WoW players to declare our game alive.

On June 20 2012 00:17 tofucake wrote:

Because there are no more professional leagues. That makes it professionally dead. This is not a subjective statement.

On June 20 2012 00:37 tofucake wrote:
The point of the blog is that GM goes through approximately all* the reports every day and sees a lot of pointless game bashing and he's calling people out on it. There's every right to be upset, but insulting people for something they have no control over is dumb, and he's saying this about both groups.

While I understand that there are plenty of people who say stupid things like "bw is dead move on", they are partially right. Professional BW is dead. I'm sure BW will hold on with an amateur scene for a long while (just look at SSBM). But come on the flaming is fucking annoying.

*seriously there are a lot of reports

On June 19 2012 13:40 Aerisky wrote:

ROFL no kidding...the epitome of multipurpose, all-encompassing, pure unadulterated vitriolic rage is LoL/DotA, whether it's discussion or in-game play or what have ye >__<

On June 19 2012 19:23 Kreb wrote:

Bolded a few words to show the problem with your argument.

You completely judge a person which you know absolutely nothing about. Nothing. And you judge him by looking at one sole statistic. Thats a problem. Even if statistically all your claims of probabilities are true (and hell, many of them probably are, generally speaking), judging someone by just that one statistic is absolutely awful.

What you say about how real life works is also true, generally (as you point out). But that doesnt mean you judge people by it. You absolutely dont. It would be like watching two politicians have a debate, look at their birth date, see one is 50 and one is 40, and then completely judge that the 50 year old guy knows more about stuff than the 40 year old does. You dont do that. You might keep that information at the back of your head while listening to them, thats all fine. But you dont judge them. And thats the problem with the TL attitude of join dates being important. People use join dates to judge. They dont keep the join dates at the back of their heads, they use it as the sole reason to judge someone.

In real life, people are smart enough to realize that probability isnt enough to judge, hence you dont judge said politicians. But for some reason, on TL join dates seem to be all you need. Where did the smartness go? By all means, feel free to post what you think about mine, or anyone elses, BW experience based on join date. You'll only prove to yourself how wrong you are should you attempt it. So feel free to give it a shot, I dont mind.

Interesting what you said about join date having little relevance pre-sc2. That indicates a few things about why join date suddenly started to become "important". But thats another topic which i'll save for another thread.

On June 20 2012 00:47 arioch wrote:


You are generalising here - not only have I not "stomped" on Broodwar, I have watched all of the starleagues since I joined in 2010. And the vast majority of people who like SC2 are like me and also either enjoy broodwar, or simply dont care.

The difference between the two forums is night and day. One in every 500 threads in the SC2 forums contains something scathing against BW, one in every 5 threads in the broodwar forums is slagging off SC2 players and fans for no reason other than their elitism. Hence why the OP has posted this blog.

Apologies for posting what you think is "dumb shit" but I am not entirely sure what point you are trying to make.

On June 20 2012 00:47 arioch wrote:


You are generalising here - not only have I not "stomped" on Broodwar, I have watched all of the starleagues since I joined in 2010. And the vast majority of people who like SC2 are like me and also either enjoy broodwar, or simply dont care.

The difference between the two forums is night and day. One in every 500 threads in the SC2 forums contains something scathing against BW, one in every 5 threads in the broodwar forums is slagging off SC2 players and fans for no reason other than their elitism. Hence why the OP has posted this blog.

Apologies for posting what you think is "dumb shit" but I am not entirely sure what point you are trying to make.

I have watched all of the starleagues since I joined in 2010