• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:02
CET 22:02
KST 06:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Master's Coliseum 8 - Group A: Serral, SHIN, Astrea, Cure6GuMiho wins HomeStory Cup 2612HomeStory Cup 26 - Info and Preview14[SSL Autumn] Finals Recap: The Bill12[SSL Autumn] Finals Preview: Service!12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 9-15): herO, MaxPax, Clem, Dark split the spoils3[Interview] Grrrr... 202425Weekly Cup Results (Dec 2-8): Protoss sweep cup trio5$15,000 Master's Coliseum #8 - (Dec 14-Jan 19)32Weekly Cup Results (Nov 25-Dec 1): MaxPax & Dark win5
StarCraft 2
General
As an esports viewer, how often would you like to see all-in/cheese strategies in tournament games? How important are macro mechanics in pro SC2? Where are Arcade and Custom Campaign files stored? Weekly Cups (Dec 9-15): herO, MaxPax, Clem, Dark split the spoils Master's Coliseum 8 - Group A: Serral, SHIN, Astrea, Cure
Tourneys
WardiTV Christmas Invitational 2024 Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s #24 - Ryung vs SHIN $15,000 Master's Coliseum #8 - (Dec 14-Jan 19)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Simple Questions/Answers Mod: Observer PlusPlus Cyclone Observer PlusPlus Cyclone
External Content
Mutation # 452 Rumble in the Jungle Mutation # 451 Violent Night Mutation # 450 Survival of the Fittest Mutation # 449 Shir Chaos
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.com/ "The Revolution" docu Thoughts on rarely used units Greatest ASL game of all time? BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL19] GosuLeague grand finals & 3rd place match [BSL19] Grand Finals - Sunday 18:30 CET [BSL19] GosuLeague semi-finals matches & casts [BSL19] LB Finals - Sunday 18:30 CET
Strategy
Good army compositions for zerg vs mech? Does mech work very well in TvZ below pro level? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
WORLDS 2024 Tell me someone about the MMR system in LoL What do you think of the animated series Arcane?
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Canadian Politics Mega-thread Iraq & Syrian Civil Wars
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Books] Epic-Fantasy series discussion thread Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Aizen's message from the…
sosukeAiZEN
Inconsistent DPS? can som…
StaticNine
Crime in Fribourg!
Nebuchad
Why We Need Esports-Specific…
TrAiDoS
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Day5 match report InfiniteC…
Freeedom
Unfinished Business
Acetone
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1867 users

Why Fin looks like one of the best in sc2 already

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 41 42 43 Next All
mothergoose729
Profile Joined December 2010
United States666 Posts
December 06 2011 19:50 GMT
#1
I am probably not the only one impressed by the huge success of Fin, aka (T)fOrGG, the ex broadwar progamer. Apparently he has been playing starcraft 2 for almost a year now, but this is the first season we have in the GSL, and he is on tear.

In his code A run, he has demolished the likes of (P)Sage, (T)Polt, and (Z)July, clinching his spot in code S for the next season. In each he won 2-0, and all of the games were incredibly one sided.

In his games against Sage, he showcased probably the best marine/maurader micro that sc2 has ever seen, showing an incredible ability, in game 2, to micro continually while keeping his minerals and gas below 400 the entire time.

In his games against Polt, he used brilliant banshee micro, often picking apart Polts scvs from two different places at once, and almost always being able to pull them back before they were killed. In the first game, fin was able to push Polts' bio army with a mech force at 13 minutes, something that the rules of mech says should be impossible.

Then last night, against July, he went two rax and gained a decisive advantage. July baneling busted fin in game two, but fin used great micro and crisis management to hold off the attack, and then quickly ended it with a mass hellion run by.

I first want to preface this, by saying that I am not a broodwar fan, and I never followed fOrGG or anything in the broodwar scene closely. So when I make this praise about fin and how I expect him to win a GSL within the next two or three seasons, I do so without looking through any rose colored glass. I have no broodwar biases.

The most obvious thing to note about fin is his micro looks to easily be the best starcraft 2 has ever seen. Even though fin has only played all of six games in the GSL, I think that statement can still be made. Sage should have taken game two with his high templar/gateway army, but the kiting of fins maraurders was just picture perfect; always pullling away from strorms just enough, and kiting back the least distance as possible, so that every possible volley from his units were released. His bunker rush against july was truly amazing, keeping as many as 4 marines alive with less then 5 hitpoints at one point, willing to abandon the bunker if it meant picking of zerglings and drones for free. And of course, most impressively, in game 2 of his match against polt, he was able to micro two banshees in two bases, with missile turrents in the mineral lines, and absolutely reck polts economy; at times doing this while even carrying on a push at the same time, or defending an attack at his own base.

But its not fins micro that has me all hot and bothered; its his fundamental style. Nearly everyone that plays starcraft II plays one of two styles; super aggressive (cheese and timing attacks) or super passive(macro/harrass oriented play). This may sound like a gross over simplification... some players can do both, and some style feature aggression and macro as well. What I mean by this, is that nearly everyone who plays starcraft II uses a strategy that either exploits the mistake their opponent makes in a big way (for instance, leenocks roach/ling timing in ZvT), or they play a style that focuses on making less mistakes then their opponent (Nestea style ZvT, MVP mech style in TvT, ect). What fin did, at least in his games where he didn't open with a cheese, was play an aggressive macro style. Fin is one of the few players I have ever seen force his opponent to make mistakes without going all in. Whats more he was also comfortable being weak at times in his games, so that he could both harass and macro behind it.

Fin looked so good and so dominant because he exploited anything and everything he could in his games; meaning that he had the fewest number of units possible, with the most bases and scvs he could afford, while still putting on incredible pressure and making decisive pushes. The margins for this kind of play style are incredibly close. I can only imagine how many games fin must have lost in ladder and practice trying to figure these timings out. In all of his games, if sage, or polt, or july had made the right units to hard counter whatever fin was doing, they could have pushed his front door and won the game nearly instantly. At one point against Polt, fins army consisted of three banshees, two wounded reapers, and a handful of marines. The brilliance of his play is that he was able to keep polt, who had the larger bio army, back in his base and at the same time was able to develop his tech better and force polt, through harassment, to fall behind on economy. That kind of play is truly amazing, and still unique to starcraft II. If this is the kind of play we can expect from top level broodwar players who switch over, then I can only hope more switch over soon and show us the way these games can truly be played.

I think fin deserves a lot of attention right now, perhaps even more then he is getting already. I would like to think he is playing a style that we will see more of in the future as starcraft II strategy continues to develop. I am very excited about seeing him compete in code S next season. If he plays like he has been in his last three matchups, then I think he could easily take a GSL title.
Irritation
Profile Joined August 2010
Austria129 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-06 19:53:47
December 06 2011 19:52 GMT
#2
shouldnt this be under the blog section ?

edit: nice read, good effort
By failing to prepare, you are preparing for failure - Benjamin Franklin
Mashes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada441 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-06 19:54:26
December 06 2011 19:53 GMT
#3
I totally agree with you, he really does look impressive thus far, his control especially with multiple groups is outstanding. But you can pose the argument that July/Polt are both in slumps and Sage is massively overhyped. I'll hold off on the bandwagon (as much as I want to because I love fOrGG >_>) because we all know too much hype kills promising players hahaha.
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery"
gogogadgetflow
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2583 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-06 19:57:13
December 06 2011 19:54 GMT
#4
"The way I play is to create a pattern where I have an advantage, and then crush my opponents with momentum. That way my opponent can’t play with 100% of his skill. That’s why I think mind-games are more important than skill."
- iloveoov


I'd describe his play as being more tactic-centric as compared to strategy-centric than we have been seeing from top players since beta
sabas123
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands3121 Posts
December 06 2011 19:54 GMT
#5
i think so^^
The harder it becomes, the more you should focus on the basics.
unit
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2621 Posts
December 06 2011 19:55 GMT
#6
yea, though i do have a bw bias, that is merely being proved by forgg being a boss right now :D
if those rumors of pl having a sc2 section ever come true (in a season or two) i expect him to return to kt and teach flash how to wreck everything ;3

that said, forgg is a boss and im glad to see him in code s (despite that he plays terran -__- we have enough terrans in there already)
Grend
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1600 Posts
December 06 2011 19:55 GMT
#7
Can't we just call him ForGG? Fin is just confusing :-)
♞ Against the Wind - Bob Seger ♞
Diizzy
Profile Joined August 2011
United States828 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-06 20:00:50
December 06 2011 19:56 GMT
#8
this was the bread and butter of BW. agresssive harrass while macroing. Although it worked better in BW because static defence was a little better.

BW was a macro game. Thats why cheese was actually exciting because it was so hard to pull off.
green.at
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Austria1459 Posts
December 06 2011 19:56 GMT
#9
the part where you actually say why he looks like one of the best was rather short(and not very thought out imho). It's more like a small summary of what happened the last week or so (and i was busy all week so i appreciate it )

Inputting special characters into chat should no longer cause the game to crash.
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
December 06 2011 19:57 GMT
#10
On December 07 2011 04:52 Irritation wrote:
shouldnt this be under the blog section ?
Maybe, but it's a nice write-up.

I think that the point has to be made that Fin (aka ForGG) is not only a former BW player but by far the highest level former BW player that professional SC2 has seen make the transfer yet. (Boxer, Nada, and July are all BW legends, but they're much further past their prime than ForGG). The Starcraft 2 scene is still young and hasn't had a chance to fully develop 'home-grown' talent. At this point, I think it's safe to say that the top SC1 players still have the edge over pretty much everyone else who plays Starcraft 2, and Fin's success just underscores that fact.
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
Brosy
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States254 Posts
December 06 2011 19:58 GMT
#11
On December 07 2011 04:55 Grend wrote:
Can't we just call him ForGG? Fin is just confusing :-)


I agree. Even when I see the brackets and see Fin, I think ForGG. He should change his name back :D. I bet he'll be picked in the last round of selections for code S next season.
xSixGeneralHan
Profile Joined April 2011
United States528 Posts
December 06 2011 19:58 GMT
#12
He's been playing for over 6 months in KR top 20 gm, this isn't something insane.
Team Operations Director for CheckSix Gaming
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
December 06 2011 20:00 GMT
#13
On December 07 2011 04:58 Brosy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2011 04:55 Grend wrote:
Can't we just call him ForGG? Fin is just confusing :-)


I agree. Even when I see the brackets and see Fin, I think ForGG. He should change his name back :D. I bet he'll be picked in the last round of selections for code S next season.

Don't think anyone thinks of him as Fin rather than ForGG.
wassbix
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada499 Posts
December 06 2011 20:00 GMT
#14
Not far off given the other GSL winners were BW nobodies (woonjin terran and Iron lol) that an A-teamer (despite his bad bad baddd performance in the last year of his BW career) is dominating.

VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
December 06 2011 20:00 GMT
#15
On December 07 2011 04:58 VPGeneralHans wrote:
He's been playing for over 6 months in KR top 20 gm, this isn't something insane.

Six months as opposed to the players who have been playing for a year and a half?

Look at TSL HyuN, he's been playing for like a month and a half, with two weeks in the TSL house, and he's already beating other Korean pros in things like the Playhem Daily.
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
Vehemus
Profile Joined November 2010
United States586 Posts
December 06 2011 20:01 GMT
#16
Fin's games last night were the first games in GSL I've actually watched twice since the very first GSTL.
This space for rent.
gogogadgetflow
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2583 Posts
December 06 2011 20:02 GMT
#17
On December 07 2011 04:58 VPGeneralHans wrote:
He's been playing for over 6 months in KR top 20 gm, this isn't something insane.


You can rationalize it all you want. Nobody is saying this guy is suddenly uncontested out of the woodwork... but so far he has made 3 top players look absolutely amateurish. Actually it is kind of insane just sayin.
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-06 20:06:10
December 06 2011 20:03 GMT
#18
i agree with the part that all players(in most cases) in sc2 either go for greedy macro play or july-esque aggression nothing in between. Forgg does what most people would call "cheese"(unfortunately tt) because they dont see that its not cheese but safe aggressive play. You ask whats safe about being aggressive, well you put pressure on your opponent, also you scout him, and play more mechanic-esque starcraft which is ForGG's forte. His oppeners are not hard countered by neither early allin's nor super greedy play, his builds generally put opponent in defense which gives forgg initiative to be more "all-in" or "greedy". Its hardest style to play, because its effectiveness relies on execution but also requires that from his opponent.

Stork[gm]
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
December 06 2011 20:04 GMT
#19
He's been in the top of the ladder for several months and just now has had some "public" success. His play is impressive, but its not like he magicly became amazing. He has been amazing for quite some time.
"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-06 20:09:17
December 06 2011 20:07 GMT
#20
He's been playing official matches in the ESV Korean Weekly. You could have made some of these conclusions earlier.

edit: similarly for jjakji, by the way. /offtopic
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
1 2 3 4 5 41 42 43 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 59m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 165
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 13850
LancerX 28
Dota 2
Pyrionflax199
Counter-Strike
fl0m1350
Stewie2K535
Foxcn295
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu536
Other Games
summit1g5674
Grubby3843
FrodaN1708
ScreaM976
Dendi795
Beastyqt720
B2W.Neo331
Hui .156
KnowMe104
Trikslyr77
NeuroSwarm58
Mew2King57
mouzStarbuck1
Organizations
StarCraft 2
ESL.tv159
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HolyHit 10
• Reevou 5
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Laughngamez YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 6
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV932
League of Legends
• TFBlade2018
Other Games
• imaqtpie3580
• Shiphtur485
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 59m
Fjant vs Iba
ArT vs TBD
NightPhoenix vs TBD
Chance vs TBD
YoungYakov vs TBD
Replay Cast
11h 59m
OlimoLeague
13h 59m
Fire Grow Cup
18h 59m
Big Brain Bouts
19h 59m
OSC
20h 59m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
SOOP
1d 12h
Ryung vs SHIN
Master's Coliseum
1d 14h
MaxPax vs SKillous
MaxPax vs Reynor
SKillous vs Rogue
Fire Grow Cup
1d 18h
[ Show More ]
BSL: GosuLeague
1d 22h
Julia vs dxtr13
Hawk vs UltrA
Master's Coliseum
2 days
Rogue vs MaxPax
Reynor vs SKillous
Reynor vs Rogue
Fire Grow Cup
2 days
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
Mihu vs Zhanhun
Online Event
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
ForJumy Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 15: Qualifier 1
HSC XXVI
Bitka W Nexusie

Ongoing

Acropolis #2
BSL Season 19
KCM Race Survival 2024 Season 5
StarCastTV International League 5
CSL Season 15: Qualifier 1
Top Gun of StarCraft Season2
Master's Coliseum 8
PW Shanghai Major 2024
ESL Impact League Season 6
Shanghai Major: EU RMR B
Shanghai Major: EU RMR A
Shanghai Major: AMER RMR
BLAST Premier World Final
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Challenger Katowice '24
Elisa Masters Espoo 2024
RES Regional Champions
IEM Rio 2024
ESL Challenger Atlanta '24

Upcoming

CSL 15: 2024 Winter
Platinum Anchor Qualifying S3
HSC XXVII
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
OSC Championship Season 12
ESL Pro League S21
Skyesports Souvenir 2025
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2025
IEM Katowice 2025
BLAST Bounty Spring 2025
BLAST Bounty Spring Qual
YaLLa Compass Winter 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2024 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.