GMarshal Note: I was just going to close this as per the subforum rules, instead I have made it into the HotS Protoss Help me thread. Same rules as the thread in SC2 strategy apply. Keep all advice grounded in reality, and ask any Protoss related question you need help with here.

+ Show Spoiler [original OP] +

I have been having some trouble with Zerg. Not to say there OP or anything but I'm finding them hard to deal with, So I am creating this thread because I can't find many HoTS build orders so I would like to see if people have any air based builds that are somewhat refined. I would prefer that it would use some of the new units. I would like a flat out build order not just a unit list. Please don't posts any stupid builds or any cheeses.

TokO

Norway577 Posts

November 17 2012 21:54 GMT

If I were you I would look at one of the established WoL airbuilds such as the 4gate SG early aggro, 5-phoenix styles or the airtoss off 3base. HotS isn't changed enough to make a 'early' mothership viable, so I'd rather just get a strong 2-base economy and maybe get the MsC around 5-6 min when you're worried about various all-ins etc.

JimTheCat

Canada44 Posts

November 17 2012 22:06 GMT

On November 18 2012 06:54 TokO wrote:
If I were you I would look at one of the established WoL airbuilds such as the 4gate SG early aggro, 5-phoenix styles or the airtoss off 3base. HotS isn't changed enough to make a 'early' mothership viable, so I'd rather just get a strong 2-base economy and maybe get the MsC around 5-6 min when you're worried about various all-ins etc.

Yeah I was basically meaning builds that use oracle/tempest. like oracle harass with a tempest follow up. or something like that

TokO

Norway577 Posts

November 17 2012 22:13 GMT

I know, but basically, follow some solid economical fast expo into air builds on WoL, because the build orders are 'figured' out, and then just build oracles and tempests instead of whatever other units they would build.

I don't think there are any good builds currently tailored for what you want, I assume that people primarily just wing it atm.

Day9 has a good recent daily on refining builds, maybe you should make your own skeleton and try use his method to make a good build for the purpose you are searching for

raf3776

United States1904 Posts

November 17 2012 22:29 GMT

I found if I open stargate-oracle, I just usually end up dying by roaches or a fast spire. So I usually open normal robo- 3 base. then Get a stargate to get oracles to snipe structures.

JimTheCat

Canada44 Posts

November 18 2012 06:31 GMT

On November 18 2012 07:29 raf3776 wrote:
I found if I open stargate-oracle, I just usually end up dying by roaches or a fast spire. So I usually open normal robo- 3 base. then Get a stargate to get oracles to snipe structures.

That happens to me if I stargate in PvZ. but it pvp I go 3 gate star gate fast expo then into robo . I use oracle and tempest from the stargate to harass and they usually commit to stalkers to kill my air and then I switch into usually a double robo and get a ton of sentry stalk immortal. and thats usually enough to kill them off.

PineapplePizza

United States749 Posts

November 18 2012 07:07 GMT

Are there any replays of Protoss players doing stalker + core pressure vs zerg? I'd really like to see how that plays out, it sounds really cool.

JimTheCat

Canada44 Posts

November 18 2012 10:55 GMT

On November 18 2012 16:07 Ooshmagoosh wrote:
Are there any replays of Protoss players doing stalker + core pressure vs zerg? I'd really like to see how that plays out, it sounds really cool.

Idk I think its hard to pull off so there probably isn't many replays. you can watch videos of white ra if your looking for HoTS protoss videos. I'd say hes probably one of the best HoTS protoss's right now

nonsequitur

384 Posts

November 24 2012 09:01 GMT

How are you guys dealing with Swarm Hosts contain? They go fairly quick Lair and set up a contain outside my front with 6 or so swarm hosts and a ton of lings. With the lings protecting the hosts I can't out dps the lings+broodlings. And the zerg slowly inches forward until the broodlings are in range of my expo and it's lights out.

KrazyTrumpet

United States2520 Posts

November 24 2012 10:52 GMT

#10

On November 24 2012 18:01 nonsequitur wrote:
How are you guys dealing with Swarm Hosts contain? They go fairly quick Lair and set up a contain outside my front with 6 or so swarm hosts and a ton of lings. With the lings protecting the hosts I can't out dps the lings+broodlings. And the zerg slowly inches forward until the broodlings are in range of my expo and it's lights out.

As stupid as it sounds, rushing for carrier off two base is pretty good against this.

nonsequitur

384 Posts

November 24 2012 11:28 GMT

#11

Edit: Oh crap. Wrong thread. This was supposed to go into the IEM Singapore one!

TokO

Norway577 Posts

November 24 2012 13:00 GMT

#12

I've been starting to do some Core-Stalker aggression into 7gate charge archon with warp prism multiprong attacks. I've had some success, but haven't met swarm hosts yet.

Responses I've met:

Ling\Hydralisks -> Chargelot Archon Storm handles this.
Mutalisk -> Storm + Blink instead of chargelot\archon.
Roach\Infestors -> Buy time with storm and feedback, but should transition to stalker colossus if you see him making a spine wall.I didn't do this and ended up losing to broodlord infestor.
Roaches -> Normal composition does well against this if you keeps pressure on his economy (ideally you've cancelled his third).

I haven't met any top tier zergs yet, so my experiences have little value, but if you guys are in diamond, you might experience the same stuff.

The thing I like about TC is that you have much more room for going out on the map and put pressure on the zerg, in contrast to Stalker Colossus where you really have to have a critical mass of stalkers\3colossus.

TokO

Norway577 Posts

November 26 2012 12:43 GMT

#13

Alright, so for the people who is looking for a build, I just quickly got together a short build for 5-Stalker Pressure into TC. I'm not coining it as my own or anything as it is pretty standard stuff. I have not tested this on ladder, but I did wing the same style of build a couple of times, and it seemed efficient then. It's not a counter to all build, you might get smashed, take it for what it is. I tried listing a few pros and cons of the build. So enjoy ^^

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uNkyEaruhw75Y9z_NajWT7nLIy-vRt7JOFHpyFl0zHQ/edit

TibblesEvilCat

United Kingdom766 Posts

November 26 2012 13:08 GMT

#14

9 pylon
13 gate
-cyber core asap
16 pylon
17 gas x2
22 gate
24 star gate
32 nexus.

Chrono probes,
2x zealot + mother ship core, pressure and snipe creep tumours and run home once you prevented creep.

Oracle - void ray - Phoenix .

Should be able to snipe the 3rd due to prevention of creep earlier, if he gone speeding expo (gas 1st) then you need to get cyber and quick sentry then follow up with forge, carry on with the basic build.

Hide a probe to sac at 5mins mark, you need to know I he's gone fast 3rd or 2 base play both require different approaches at 7mims hallucinate an Phoenix to see what he tech is.

Hope that some help

nonsequitur

384 Posts

December 09 2012 06:41 GMT

#15

What are you guys doing vs zerg? I'm clueless as to what to do against swarm hosts openings. Does the immortal/sentry expand still work against them? Immortals do nothing against ling/sh but I feel I have to go immortals or I die to a roach max. I don't find colossus to be useful. Against 6+ swarm hosts they do nothing, and against roach/hydra/viper abduct renders them useless.

GMarshal

United States22154 Posts

December 09 2012 07:10 GMT

#16

I'm repurposing this thread

Sprite825

France57 Posts

December 09 2012 13:42 GMT

#17

Hi, i'm a diamond terran player in WoL, and i'd like to switch to protoss in hots, and i have absolutely no idea how to play protoss. Can please some one teach me some basics build and tips to improve cause i'm totaly lost in hots( even in terran and zerg)

Decendos

Germany1341 Posts

December 09 2012 14:51 GMT

#18

has anybody tested mass oracle play + zealot HT support vs MMM? just did some tests and it is insanely strong if you combine timewarp + storm + 29 DPS to light units + zealots connecting way better thanks to timewarp. would love to see this work ^^

ZjiublingZ

United Arab Emirates439 Posts

December 09 2012 15:21 GMT

#19

@Sprite

I'm in the same boat man, so here's the guides I'm using to learn Protoss - they are all Stargate builds because that's what I like and that's what has gotten the new and improved units.

PvP - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381717 (note, the tip in this guide to get air upgrades after warpgate, and cancel later if you find out he isn't going stargate, is amazingly useful because you often will get in a stargate vs stargate battle in HotS)

PvZ gateway expand > stargate - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361740 (I feel like gateway expands are stronger now with the utility of the MSC).

PvT I don't know, I can't find any good stargate guides so I don't really have a build.

iKill

Denmark861 Posts

December 09 2012 16:46 GMT

#20

On December 09 2012 23:51 Decendos wrote:
has anybody tested mass oracle play + zealot HT support vs MMM? just did some tests and it is insanely strong if you combine timewarp + storm + 29 DPS to light units + zealots connecting way better thanks to timewarp. would love to see this work ^^

Time Warp is good but you have to open up with templar tech and add the oracles later. Fast oracles against T will just make you die, because they have so low HP any kind of focus fire from marines just rapes them.