EPTWhat have people been doing as their standard build on this map? It seems like such a screwy map in some ways - easy to FFE, but hard to Nexus first on the chance of close spawns. Securing a third is really tough also considering how open they are, and when I do, I've lost a lot to mass Muta play on it as well (even opening Stargate). Most of my wins there have come from silly 2 base all-ins and I don't like to play those as much, so what have you all been successful with?
The (HotS) Protoss Help Me Thread Beta - Page 4
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Redfish
United States142 Posts
What have people been doing as their standard build on this map? It seems like such a screwy map in some ways - easy to FFE, but hard to Nexus first on the chance of close spawns. Securing a third is really tough also considering how open they are, and when I do, I've lost a lot to mass Muta play on it as well (even opening Stargate). Most of my wins there have come from silly 2 base all-ins and I don't like to play those as much, so what have you all been successful with? | ||
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
You then have to scout the gases. If he only takes 2-4 you should delay your third and get void rays. Haven't lost against Mutas, I usually get phoenix, if I see Mutas I add another Stargate and get double Phoenix production going, by the time he reaches my base I have 6 and second Stargate almost done. No way his Mutas will do damage. I still have problems with FFE on howling peak, I try to wall off nexus to ramp and place the cannon close to the nexus to protect the mineral line. However zergs either make a ton of Lings and kill me with it or they get a proxy hatch that blocks right at the ramp meaning I cannot wall off, killing me right there.. | ||
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Rife
Australia12 Posts
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brudnychuj
9 Posts
hey, i'm sorry, but does the skytoss really works in pvz on master+ level? maybe i'm executing it badly, but i die to roach/hydra pushes every time or at least i fall really behind. pvz was always my favourite matchup but i'm out of ideas in hots. could you upload some pvz replays from high level play? | ||
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
On December 30 2012 20:09 Rife wrote: Can anyone point me in the way of a build for PvP that is not 4gate? It seems like if I build oracles I die to 2 base collos push and if I go collos I die to oracle harass. Even with 3 cannons on each mineral line I lose a lot of probes to oracles if my opponent actually shift click targets the probes. 3gate blink. Don't FE, don't let him FE. Expand when you feel safe, then go chargelot archon while adding in stalkers. Eventually add VRs + tempests if he goes lolossus. except KC. just 4gate or veto there. it's the new TDA, you can't really stop a 4gate there without 4gating yourself. | ||
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Redfish
United States142 Posts
On December 30 2012 23:30 brudnychuj wrote: hey, i'm sorry, but does the skytoss really works in pvz on master+ level? maybe i'm executing it badly, but i die to roach/hydra pushes every time or at least i fall really behind. pvz was always my favourite matchup but i'm out of ideas in hots. could you upload some pvz replays from high level play? It does work, but it's best with Templar support. You need the AOE of Storm to deal with Hydralisks and they're also good for feedbacking Infestors and Vipers. | ||
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jcroisdale
United States1543 Posts
On December 30 2012 23:30 brudnychuj wrote: hey, i'm sorry, but does the skytoss really works in pvz on master+ level? maybe i'm executing it badly, but i die to roach/hydra pushes every time or at least i fall really behind. pvz was always my favourite matchup but i'm out of ideas in hots. could you upload some pvz replays from high level play? skytoss has to be supplemented with HTs to deal with hydra and coruptors. Something I seen whitera mess around with was a two oracle two void attack. He builds the oracles first and just sit till he has the first void so he can take down 1 spore and 1 queen with no losses. The second void he rallies over during this he is taking his third base. From there you can just add on fleet beacon and HTs. I think its most viable on a map like Newkirk City or Akilon wastes where you forth bases are easy to take, since this is so gas intensive. I dump my minerals into cannos and WP harass. | ||
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
1) PvP: some kind of 3stalker into fast expand. I feel like between the msc and hallu scouting, fast expand openings will be pretty safe. If he's doing some sort of stargate play try to hit a blink timing, otherwise go into the the macro game...and here i guess i'll have to play around to know what to do. Assuming stargate is weak to timing attacks (is it?) and mass colossus is (finally) bad, i guess the best way to play might be zealot/archon/stalker with a fast ish third, or maybe 2base colossus into third kinda like in PvT in WoL. Any thoughts on this? Some team mates of mine say that void rays are pretty op right now, but can't you just react by going storm and/or phoenix? 2) PvT: pretty much what Perfect posted in his guide. 2base stargate vs mech, 2base templar vs bio. I think i will try to go 2star oracle instead of 2robo colossus when i take my third, is time warp+storm+pulsar beam enough to beat ghosts and/or the new medivacs? I guess with the speed boost, adding phoenixes to snipe the medivacs is probably not worth it. How does skytoss (ish) play do vs mech? I'm thinking, double star carrier/tempest/emergency void ray and phoenix in case of a push, with a bit of gateway force for support. I think i'll also go either 16 double gas instead of 14/21 gas or even zeal/core/zeal in PvP and PvT to try and get a msc up asap without delaying my wg/stalker/whatever else. 3) PvZ: Probably some 4gate+stargate pressure with the msc to recall, into some stargate expand (pretty much how people immortal expand now), into templar, kind of like kcdc's/rsvp's old builds. I'll probably either expand or tech faster though. Pretty bw ish actually, so that sounds fun. I've tried oracles a bit, but i always run into people making 2-3 blind spores per base lol. The thing that scares the hell out of me is mutas, and that's kinda why i'll try the void ray pressure (i want to delay them as much as possible). Is having some kind of phoenix count already up mandatory? How scary are roach max and roach/hydra max on maps with open thirds? Thoughts? | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
@brudnychuj: Yes, I play Skytoss every PvZ. Like I said earlier, 1-2 Oracle and a few +1 zealots is a fast and cheap way to open vs Zerg and it allows you to place your 3rd relatively early. I haven't faced a single Roach max that was successful, and muta play is easily spot countered since phoenix is an easy switch. In fact I am winning most of my PvZ right now, and only lose if I am too slow in adding high templar to my air army and the opponent gets a good amount of hydra/roach/corruptor. Also, bad engagements and letting the game drag on without taking 4th, I'm guilty of that. | ||
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Ldawg
United States328 Posts
Has anyone experienced similar problems and have any suggestions? I'm currently platinum in beta btw. | ||
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
On January 02 2013 11:59 Ldawg wrote: I'm puzzled on how to deal with drops in the mid-late game PvT. I find that with the speed boost, not only do you have a very small window to see the drops coming but the speed boost also guarantees the medivacs take much less damage from any cannons present. One particular game I was dropped in two places concurrently. The drop in my main had two medivacs speedboost over three cannons and drop on my nexus past their main. Has anyone experienced similar problems and have any suggestions? I'm currently platinum in beta btw. Templars, blink, map awareness. Same as always. There's no magic bullet to dealing the new drops, you just have to actually be good now compared to before, when you could snooze through drop defence with a few lucky warp-ins. | ||
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DeKGenetiX
United States17 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
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jcroisdale
United States1543 Posts
On January 06 2013 07:08 Kluey wrote: I'm a high masters in WoL and am losing to diamonds in HotS. Can someone give me an outline of each matchup? in PvP I like 3 stalker MsC rush pressure into expo. Most players are used to getting sentries out to defend, but the High ground vision granted from the core you can actually push up there ramp if they decide to defend with 2 sentries, zlot, and MsC. From here im not exactly sure whats best. PvZ - I've seen a lot of Pro's going for Nexus first into double Stargate play. Get 2 oracles out first then a couple voids and attack. Then just take a third and try to go into HT, Void, Zlot, Tempest. While I like this build I do not think it is that safe if you do no damage your are very weak against a Hydra push, since you HTs won't be out yet. Recently I have been going for Nexus first into 5:30 3/4th gas, getting one immortal then going straight into colossus. I get a handful on sentries to scout with Hallu. If there is no spire I just take a third off 1 colossus then continue to get 4 of them. You can then push out with a standard 3base timing, but you are going to need a TA for HTs, because you most likely will need feedback to counter the Vipers. From there I Just go into 4+ base going for a compostion of Colossus, HTs, Tempest, Archons, Voids. The reason behind the quick colossus is to counter all the quick swarm hosts and hydra pushes I had been facing. PvT. I open with 1gate double gas, get out 1zlot, 2 stalkers, and the MsC. The pressure you can do with these units is very strong. The MsC combined with the stalkers can really do a lot of early damage. From there just expo then I go standard 3gate robo play. SG still is pretty weak against Terran. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8058 Posts
Between the abilities of the High Templars, Oracle, Mothership core, Sentries, Blinkstalkers and Phoenixes, how in the world are you suppose to keep track of them all without having top 3 control? And thats forgetting the general army splitting and collosus micro you have to do as well. I feel like I went from having too few spellcasters (generally only Sentries, Blink and HT) in wol to a massive overamount of spellcasters in hots. | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On January 06 2013 09:17 playa wrote: P v P, is there any kinda consensus on an ideal void ray count? The more, the better? When I go against void rays, I make archons and win. But it usually seems like I was ahead eco wise, so it's not exactly telling. Say I make a void ray to help aid in defense of an early attack or w/e, when would you stop making void rays? And, do you only transition to tempests when you think colossi might be in play for your opponent? What is your ideal composition to counter mass void rays? Simply try to have more than them? well yes you make the archons so the other make mass colossi where you make voidrays and vs that again archon its the mixture, i like at least as much voidrays as the other player have colossi, + some own colossi and archons  mix 4tw | ||
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Egomancer
Romania119 Posts
Currently I am loosing like 90% of the games vs zerg because it is impossible to scout what zerg is doing (same old problem from WoL). Now half of the time zergs go roach/hydra and half of the time zergling/muta. And when you scout at min 9 it is already too late if you pick the wrong strat. Going 2 stargates vs roach/hidra means insta death, so do not listen to the people that are reccomending you this on this thread. 2 stragates works against ling/muta but once more it is a thing of scouting. The opposite is true - going robo against muta/ling = insta death too, so once more it all goes down to scouting. Does any of you have an opening that is good against both zerg openings? Egomancer | ||
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