Semifinal or better since 2006, Germany would be stupid to fire him.
Add I've been arguing for years, it isn't due to Löw. Germany has been winning on talent.
You don't win on talent alone. See Spain, Italy, England, Portugal, Belgium - all failed sometime since 2006, most of them more than once.
So, you arguments are void.
I'd you can actually look at the quality of players in Germany and tell me that their performances here and in 2014 are the best performances they can put up, I can't take you seriously.
I saw Germany playing kamikaze in 2010 and lose to Spain. Germany play defense in 2014 and win the title. Löw did everything correctly.
Your reasoning is incredibly lazy.
You thinking talent can win you matches in football is just so stupid... Talent does shit without tactics.
It's like I'm talking to a child.
No fucking shit talent alone doesn't win everything. 11 of the world's best players running around like headless chickens won't win.
If you had any kind of intellectual integrity you would realize that the argument is that there are clearly better tactical choices that can be made with the amount of talent that Germany has. There is no excuse for having only 1 striker on the roster. There's no excuse for sticking to a system that makes this team consistently underperform relative to the amount of quality they have. Slowing the game down this much and trying to pass the ball into the back of the net doesn't work with this team. It didn't win them the WC (they won that on an awful Brazilian side and a brilliant 2-man counter attack in the 113th minute).
Again, I ask you to say with a straight face that you think that the unimpressive performances that Germany has put on in the last two tournaments (against Ghana, the U.S., Algeria, France, Argentina, Ukraine, Poland, North Ireland, Italy, and France, none of which looked convincing even when they won) are actually indicative of the quality of players that Germany has at its disposal.
It brought them results, that's all people like you care.
Also Löw changed his system three times this tournament. Why do you blame him for Boateng and Schweinsteiger's Ballerina handballs? Or Neuer having a blackout.
Löw changed from Götze to Gomez and then changed formations and then back. He's stuck to his ways of a serious lack of strikers, slowing down the game immensely, and prioritizing possession and a passing game over the strong attack and pace that Germany played with until around 2013.
And on what planet do you live on? I've been following this team for nearly 2 decades and have been a consistent critic of Löw on these boards since I first started talking about football here in 2010. Results aren't the only thing that matter precisely because of this; if your results aren't reliable, then you're liable to slip up and lose when it matters.
Tbh Löw doesn't have much options in the range of strikers. It's a sad day when Spain produces better and more strikers than Germany does.
Also, I am not saying you can't criticise Löw. I am saying you can't just expect his head after one loss in a SEMIFINAL of a EURO against the HOST country... I am emphasizing these words because you expect Germany to win all the titles in the last decade or what?
Countries with squads as good as this Germany have failed to perform in big tournaments. Yet Löw managed to go to semifinal or better every single time. Be happy.
Btw I might be the only one apart from the Portuguese, but I am rooting for Portugal now.
I always had kind of a soft spot for them, and they never won a major tournament. Moreover, while Griezmann is an awesome player, and Lloris had a great game today, I am not too impressed with the French team.
On July 08 2016 06:29 Maenander wrote: Btw I might be the only one apart from the Portuguese, but I am rooting for Portugal now.
I always had kind of a soft spot for them, and they never won a major tournament. Moreover, while Griezmann is an awesome player, and Lloris had a great game today, I am not too impressed with the French team.
On July 08 2016 05:51 Stratos_speAr wrote: [quote]
Add I've been arguing for years, it isn't due to Löw. Germany has been winning on talent.
You don't win on talent alone. See Spain, Italy, England, Portugal, Belgium - all failed sometime since 2006, most of them more than once.
So, you arguments are void.
I'd you can actually look at the quality of players in Germany and tell me that their performances here and in 2014 are the best performances they can put up, I can't take you seriously.
I saw Germany playing kamikaze in 2010 and lose to Spain. Germany play defense in 2014 and win the title. Löw did everything correctly.
Your reasoning is incredibly lazy.
You thinking talent can win you matches in football is just so stupid... Talent does shit without tactics.
It's like I'm talking to a child.
No fucking shit talent alone doesn't win everything. 11 of the world's best players running around like headless chickens won't win.
If you had any kind of intellectual integrity you would realize that the argument is that there are clearly better tactical choices that can be made with the amount of talent that Germany has. There is no excuse for having only 1 striker on the roster. There's no excuse for sticking to a system that makes this team consistently underperform relative to the amount of quality they have. Slowing the game down this much and trying to pass the ball into the back of the net doesn't work with this team. It didn't win them the WC (they won that on an awful Brazilian side and a brilliant 2-man counter attack in the 113th minute).
Again, I ask you to say with a straight face that you think that the unimpressive performances that Germany has put on in the last two tournaments (against Ghana, the U.S., Algeria, France, Argentina, Ukraine, Poland, North Ireland, Italy, and France, none of which looked convincing even when they won) are actually indicative of the quality of players that Germany has at its disposal.
It brought them results, that's all people like you care.
Also Löw changed his system three times this tournament. Why do you blame him for Boateng and Schweinsteiger's Ballerina handballs? Or Neuer having a blackout.
Löw changed from Götze to Gomez and then changed formations and then back. He's stuck to his ways of a serious lack of strikers, slowing down the game immensely, and prioritizing possession and a passing game over the strong attack and pace that Germany played with until around 2013.
And on what planet do you live on? I've been following this team for nearly 2 decades and have been a consistent critic of Löw on these boards since I first started talking about football here in 2010. Results aren't the only thing that matter precisely because of this; if your results aren't reliable, then you're liable to slip up and lose when it matters.
Tbh Löw doesn't have much options in the range of strikers. It's a sad day when Spain produces better and more strikers than Germany does.
Also, I am not saying you can't criticise Löw. I am saying you can't just expect his head after one loss in a SEMIFINAL of a EURO against the HOST country... I am emphasizing these words because you expect Germany to win all the titles in the last decade or what?
Countries with squads as good as this Germany have failed to perform in big tournaments. Yet Löw managed to go to semifinal or better every single time. Be happy.
I'm not calling for his head after one loss in a semifinal. I'm calling for his head after disappointing performances for several years now.
I 100% guarantee you that the only reason he's still the manager is the fact that he won the WC, in a game that Germany was by no means the better team.
My apologies for being confrontational, but I'm bitter because this isn't some miracle run. Germany easily has the most talented pool of players in the world to pick from, and they shouldn't be squandering that talent when they could definitely be winning more than they currently are.
You don't win on talent alone. See Spain, Italy, England, Portugal, Belgium - all failed sometime since 2006, most of them more than once.
So, you arguments are void.
I'd you can actually look at the quality of players in Germany and tell me that their performances here and in 2014 are the best performances they can put up, I can't take you seriously.
I saw Germany playing kamikaze in 2010 and lose to Spain. Germany play defense in 2014 and win the title. Löw did everything correctly.
Your reasoning is incredibly lazy.
You thinking talent can win you matches in football is just so stupid... Talent does shit without tactics.
It's like I'm talking to a child.
No fucking shit talent alone doesn't win everything. 11 of the world's best players running around like headless chickens won't win.
If you had any kind of intellectual integrity you would realize that the argument is that there are clearly better tactical choices that can be made with the amount of talent that Germany has. There is no excuse for having only 1 striker on the roster. There's no excuse for sticking to a system that makes this team consistently underperform relative to the amount of quality they have. Slowing the game down this much and trying to pass the ball into the back of the net doesn't work with this team. It didn't win them the WC (they won that on an awful Brazilian side and a brilliant 2-man counter attack in the 113th minute).
Again, I ask you to say with a straight face that you think that the unimpressive performances that Germany has put on in the last two tournaments (against Ghana, the U.S., Algeria, France, Argentina, Ukraine, Poland, North Ireland, Italy, and France, none of which looked convincing even when they won) are actually indicative of the quality of players that Germany has at its disposal.
It brought them results, that's all people like you care.
Also Löw changed his system three times this tournament. Why do you blame him for Boateng and Schweinsteiger's Ballerina handballs? Or Neuer having a blackout.
Löw changed from Götze to Gomez and then changed formations and then back. He's stuck to his ways of a serious lack of strikers, slowing down the game immensely, and prioritizing possession and a passing game over the strong attack and pace that Germany played with until around 2013.
And on what planet do you live on? I've been following this team for nearly 2 decades and have been a consistent critic of Löw on these boards since I first started talking about football here in 2010. Results aren't the only thing that matter precisely because of this; if your results aren't reliable, then you're liable to slip up and lose when it matters.
Tbh Löw doesn't have much options in the range of strikers. It's a sad day when Spain produces better and more strikers than Germany does.
Also, I am not saying you can't criticise Löw. I am saying you can't just expect his head after one loss in a SEMIFINAL of a EURO against the HOST country... I am emphasizing these words because you expect Germany to win all the titles in the last decade or what?
Countries with squads as good as this Germany have failed to perform in big tournaments. Yet Löw managed to go to semifinal or better every single time. Be happy.
I'm not calling for his head after one loss in a semifinal. I'm calling for his head after disappointing performances for several years now.
I 100% guarantee you that the only reason he's still the manager is the fact that he won the WC, in a game that Germany was by no means the better team.
My apologies for being confrontational, but I'm bitter because this isn't some miracle run. Germany easily has the most talented pool of players in the world to pick from, and they shouldn't be squandering that talent when they could definitely be winning more than they currently are.
You won't get anyone to agree with you there. Winning a WC - no matter how - is never a disappointing performance. I actually felt that this tournament Germany overperformed a little bit. Löw just needs more time to cope with Klose and Lahm gone. It's not a everyday scenario to lose the best striker AND fullback your country ever had. Also Germany won only one U21 didn't they? So other countries are also having a big pool of talent, not only Germany.
On July 08 2016 05:57 Stratos_speAr wrote: [quote]
I'd you can actually look at the quality of players in Germany and tell me that their performances here and in 2014 are the best performances they can put up, I can't take you seriously.
I saw Germany playing kamikaze in 2010 and lose to Spain. Germany play defense in 2014 and win the title. Löw did everything correctly.
Your reasoning is incredibly lazy.
You thinking talent can win you matches in football is just so stupid... Talent does shit without tactics.
It's like I'm talking to a child.
No fucking shit talent alone doesn't win everything. 11 of the world's best players running around like headless chickens won't win.
If you had any kind of intellectual integrity you would realize that the argument is that there are clearly better tactical choices that can be made with the amount of talent that Germany has. There is no excuse for having only 1 striker on the roster. There's no excuse for sticking to a system that makes this team consistently underperform relative to the amount of quality they have. Slowing the game down this much and trying to pass the ball into the back of the net doesn't work with this team. It didn't win them the WC (they won that on an awful Brazilian side and a brilliant 2-man counter attack in the 113th minute).
Again, I ask you to say with a straight face that you think that the unimpressive performances that Germany has put on in the last two tournaments (against Ghana, the U.S., Algeria, France, Argentina, Ukraine, Poland, North Ireland, Italy, and France, none of which looked convincing even when they won) are actually indicative of the quality of players that Germany has at its disposal.
It brought them results, that's all people like you care.
Also Löw changed his system three times this tournament. Why do you blame him for Boateng and Schweinsteiger's Ballerina handballs? Or Neuer having a blackout.
Löw changed from Götze to Gomez and then changed formations and then back. He's stuck to his ways of a serious lack of strikers, slowing down the game immensely, and prioritizing possession and a passing game over the strong attack and pace that Germany played with until around 2013.
And on what planet do you live on? I've been following this team for nearly 2 decades and have been a consistent critic of Löw on these boards since I first started talking about football here in 2010. Results aren't the only thing that matter precisely because of this; if your results aren't reliable, then you're liable to slip up and lose when it matters.
Tbh Löw doesn't have much options in the range of strikers. It's a sad day when Spain produces better and more strikers than Germany does.
Also, I am not saying you can't criticise Löw. I am saying you can't just expect his head after one loss in a SEMIFINAL of a EURO against the HOST country... I am emphasizing these words because you expect Germany to win all the titles in the last decade or what?
Countries with squads as good as this Germany have failed to perform in big tournaments. Yet Löw managed to go to semifinal or better every single time. Be happy.
I'm not calling for his head after one loss in a semifinal. I'm calling for his head after disappointing performances for several years now.
I 100% guarantee you that the only reason he's still the manager is the fact that he won the WC, in a game that Germany was by no means the better team.
My apologies for being confrontational, but I'm bitter because this isn't some miracle run. Germany easily has the most talented pool of players in the world to pick from, and they shouldn't be squandering that talent when they could definitely be winning more than they currently are.
You won't get anyone to agree with you there. Winning a WC - no matter how - is never a disappointing performance. I actually felt that this tournament Germany overperformed a little bit. Löw just needs more time to cope with Klose and Lahm gone. It's not a everyday scenario to lose the best striker AND fullback your country ever had. Also Germany won only one U21 didn't they? So other countries are also having a big pool of talent, not only Germany.
Germany's total talent pool is the sum of their youth teams and their senior team (which obviously doesn't play in youth tournaments).
Of course winning the WC wasn't a disappointing performance - we won. That said, the performance against Argentina was by no means convincing, and the vast majority of games both before and after that either weren't convincing (e.g. quarters against France) or downright disappointing (e.g. Ghana, Algeria, Poland), even when they were wins.
As I've said, Löw has had many options for years. He actively chooses not to promote these options. Again, he didn't even take a 2nd striker to the tournament with a team that he knew struggles without a true striker.. Even if he chose never to use him, how can you justify that?
I saw Germany playing kamikaze in 2010 and lose to Spain. Germany play defense in 2014 and win the title. Löw did everything correctly.
Your reasoning is incredibly lazy.
You thinking talent can win you matches in football is just so stupid... Talent does shit without tactics.
It's like I'm talking to a child.
No fucking shit talent alone doesn't win everything. 11 of the world's best players running around like headless chickens won't win.
If you had any kind of intellectual integrity you would realize that the argument is that there are clearly better tactical choices that can be made with the amount of talent that Germany has. There is no excuse for having only 1 striker on the roster. There's no excuse for sticking to a system that makes this team consistently underperform relative to the amount of quality they have. Slowing the game down this much and trying to pass the ball into the back of the net doesn't work with this team. It didn't win them the WC (they won that on an awful Brazilian side and a brilliant 2-man counter attack in the 113th minute).
Again, I ask you to say with a straight face that you think that the unimpressive performances that Germany has put on in the last two tournaments (against Ghana, the U.S., Algeria, France, Argentina, Ukraine, Poland, North Ireland, Italy, and France, none of which looked convincing even when they won) are actually indicative of the quality of players that Germany has at its disposal.
It brought them results, that's all people like you care.
Also Löw changed his system three times this tournament. Why do you blame him for Boateng and Schweinsteiger's Ballerina handballs? Or Neuer having a blackout.
Löw changed from Götze to Gomez and then changed formations and then back. He's stuck to his ways of a serious lack of strikers, slowing down the game immensely, and prioritizing possession and a passing game over the strong attack and pace that Germany played with until around 2013.
And on what planet do you live on? I've been following this team for nearly 2 decades and have been a consistent critic of Löw on these boards since I first started talking about football here in 2010. Results aren't the only thing that matter precisely because of this; if your results aren't reliable, then you're liable to slip up and lose when it matters.
Tbh Löw doesn't have much options in the range of strikers. It's a sad day when Spain produces better and more strikers than Germany does.
Also, I am not saying you can't criticise Löw. I am saying you can't just expect his head after one loss in a SEMIFINAL of a EURO against the HOST country... I am emphasizing these words because you expect Germany to win all the titles in the last decade or what?
Countries with squads as good as this Germany have failed to perform in big tournaments. Yet Löw managed to go to semifinal or better every single time. Be happy.
I'm not calling for his head after one loss in a semifinal. I'm calling for his head after disappointing performances for several years now.
I 100% guarantee you that the only reason he's still the manager is the fact that he won the WC, in a game that Germany was by no means the better team.
My apologies for being confrontational, but I'm bitter because this isn't some miracle run. Germany easily has the most talented pool of players in the world to pick from, and they shouldn't be squandering that talent when they could definitely be winning more than they currently are.
You won't get anyone to agree with you there. Winning a WC - no matter how - is never a disappointing performance. I actually felt that this tournament Germany overperformed a little bit. Löw just needs more time to cope with Klose and Lahm gone. It's not a everyday scenario to lose the best striker AND fullback your country ever had. Also Germany won only one U21 didn't they? So other countries are also having a big pool of talent, not only Germany.
Germany's total talent pool is the sum of their youth teams and their senior team (which obviously doesn't play in youth tournaments).
Of course winning the WC wasn't a disappointing performance - we won. That said, the performance against Argentina was by no means convincing, and the vast majority of games both before and after that either weren't convincing (e.g. quarters against France) or downright disappointing (e.g. Ghana, Algeria, Poland), even when they were wins.
As I've said, Löw has had many options for years. He actively chooses not to promote these options. Again, he didn't even take a 2nd striker to the tournament with a team that he knew struggles without a true striker.. Even if he chose never to use him, how can you justify that?
You can't justify it. But every coach makes mistakes. Only Chelsea would fire a coach after one mistake though. And if your "biggest" mistake is losing in semifinal because your players want to be ballerinas - well I am sure Netherlands would take Löw in a heartbeat. There are no perfect tactics or perfect coaches. You really expect too much
On July 08 2016 06:01 Stratos_speAr wrote: [quote]
Your reasoning is incredibly lazy.
You thinking talent can win you matches in football is just so stupid... Talent does shit without tactics.
It's like I'm talking to a child.
No fucking shit talent alone doesn't win everything. 11 of the world's best players running around like headless chickens won't win.
If you had any kind of intellectual integrity you would realize that the argument is that there are clearly better tactical choices that can be made with the amount of talent that Germany has. There is no excuse for having only 1 striker on the roster. There's no excuse for sticking to a system that makes this team consistently underperform relative to the amount of quality they have. Slowing the game down this much and trying to pass the ball into the back of the net doesn't work with this team. It didn't win them the WC (they won that on an awful Brazilian side and a brilliant 2-man counter attack in the 113th minute).
Again, I ask you to say with a straight face that you think that the unimpressive performances that Germany has put on in the last two tournaments (against Ghana, the U.S., Algeria, France, Argentina, Ukraine, Poland, North Ireland, Italy, and France, none of which looked convincing even when they won) are actually indicative of the quality of players that Germany has at its disposal.
It brought them results, that's all people like you care.
Also Löw changed his system three times this tournament. Why do you blame him for Boateng and Schweinsteiger's Ballerina handballs? Or Neuer having a blackout.
Löw changed from Götze to Gomez and then changed formations and then back. He's stuck to his ways of a serious lack of strikers, slowing down the game immensely, and prioritizing possession and a passing game over the strong attack and pace that Germany played with until around 2013.
And on what planet do you live on? I've been following this team for nearly 2 decades and have been a consistent critic of Löw on these boards since I first started talking about football here in 2010. Results aren't the only thing that matter precisely because of this; if your results aren't reliable, then you're liable to slip up and lose when it matters.
Tbh Löw doesn't have much options in the range of strikers. It's a sad day when Spain produces better and more strikers than Germany does.
Also, I am not saying you can't criticise Löw. I am saying you can't just expect his head after one loss in a SEMIFINAL of a EURO against the HOST country... I am emphasizing these words because you expect Germany to win all the titles in the last decade or what?
Countries with squads as good as this Germany have failed to perform in big tournaments. Yet Löw managed to go to semifinal or better every single time. Be happy.
I'm not calling for his head after one loss in a semifinal. I'm calling for his head after disappointing performances for several years now.
I 100% guarantee you that the only reason he's still the manager is the fact that he won the WC, in a game that Germany was by no means the better team.
My apologies for being confrontational, but I'm bitter because this isn't some miracle run. Germany easily has the most talented pool of players in the world to pick from, and they shouldn't be squandering that talent when they could definitely be winning more than they currently are.
You won't get anyone to agree with you there. Winning a WC - no matter how - is never a disappointing performance. I actually felt that this tournament Germany overperformed a little bit. Löw just needs more time to cope with Klose and Lahm gone. It's not a everyday scenario to lose the best striker AND fullback your country ever had. Also Germany won only one U21 didn't they? So other countries are also having a big pool of talent, not only Germany.
Germany's total talent pool is the sum of their youth teams and their senior team (which obviously doesn't play in youth tournaments).
Of course winning the WC wasn't a disappointing performance - we won. That said, the performance against Argentina was by no means convincing, and the vast majority of games both before and after that either weren't convincing (e.g. quarters against France) or downright disappointing (e.g. Ghana, Algeria, Poland), even when they were wins.
As I've said, Löw has had many options for years. He actively chooses not to promote these options. Again, he didn't even take a 2nd striker to the tournament with a team that he knew struggles without a true striker.. Even if he chose never to use him, how can you justify that?
You can't justify it. But every coach makes mistakes. Only Chelsea would fire a coach after one mistake though. And if your "biggest" mistake is losing in semifinal because your players want to be ballerinas - well I am sure Netherlands would take Löw in a heartbeat. There are no perfect tactics or perfect coaches. You really expect too much
As I've been saying over and over again, it isn't one mistake.
Oh well. I dont think in my lifetime of being a football, germany being eliminated from a big tournament has ever hurt less than today. It was just one of these games where from start (and even before, with the injuries) to finish not the slightest bit of luck seemed to be on our side. Such games just occasionally happen, and it's part of football. The ball never seemed to bounce our way, and than for second goal, France could hardly ask for a better rebound. I'm not saying France didn't deserve it though. At least this time I felt that our players gave everything and didnt lose their composure, unlike in some other decisive losses. I'd go as far as saying that except for the individual errors that gifted France the two goals, germany were the better side. But I guess this still means that overall, we were not. In a tournament with no outstanding team, the small margins decide.
I dont think there is anyone to blame in particular. Yes, Kimmich was a joke in defense and thankfully neither Italy no France targeted him in particular, but he is still very young. It is not his fault that noone better was around, andI think fullback might be the most challenging position to play atm. I am optimistic he will mature quickly and be a rock in the national team for the foreseeable future. Schweinsteiger's handball was ofc unnecessary, but with all what he has done over the last decade, he deserves to have some credit. Özil has grown to become a go-to scapegoat but in reality I don't think he did any worse than the other attackers. Draxler was the most visible one, but at times he wanted force something to happen too much.
On July 08 2016 05:54 OtherWorld wrote: The only two teams I didn't want to well out of the whole 24 are in the finals. The two teams that got the easiest groups too, and, for France, the easiest Ro16 & 8 opponents. Fuck this.
On July 08 2016 05:54 OtherWorld wrote: The only two teams I didn't want to well out of the whole 24 are in the finals. The two teams that got the easiest groups too, and, for France, the easiest Ro16 & 8 opponents. Fuck this.
Don't be mad you just have bad mentality lol.
I'd be wasted and happy as fuck if NL were in the finals His mentality is ridiculous
This is the first time in my lifetime we beat Germany in an important match I think. Don't blame Muller too much, this guy is a hero, he sucked this Euro but was so good before that, it's unfair to hate him imo ! There are people in the streets celebrating, it's insane haha, everyone is partying like we won already (and not because they think we won already, but because beating Germany is a that big of a deal).
GG to my German friends and neighbors I know you got used to win, but you can't win everytime =p
GG, deserved win France. Excited to see Griezmann and Payet in the finals. ggwp.
On July 08 2016 07:05 Mafe wrote: Oh well. I dont think in my lifetime of being a football [ fan ], germany being eliminated from a big tournament has ever hurt less than today..
I still feel Müller is completely misused as solo striker. He always showed up when there is some massive threat up front, while he can do crazy stuff everywhere on the pitch. With Bayern you have Lewa keeping the defenders busy, and suddenly Müller shows up out of nothing. Even before Lewa, Bayern always brought some real striker so Müller can shine. In the national team at WC and before we had a Klose, tying up defenders, again Mülller did really well. Even this EC, in the games with Gomez, Müllers presence was felt. And without Gomez, Müller was just not himself.
Hopefully our players stay focused because the finals will be hard: one rest day more for Portugal plus even though their side was a bit easier, they had to beat a good Croatian team as well as a solid Poland and a dark horse Wales. They became increasingly better and they'll want the trophy as much as us after the 2004 fail.
Yet I think the home advantage will pull us through! I dislike French Portugese fans but I kind of always liked their team when I still watched euro/WC with hope (until 2006).
EPT
