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State of the game
The overall quality of the events around the world seem pretty solid. Of course there will always be balance issues here and there that we will work on, but how the game’s show since the major patch look great so far.
Therefore, we wanted to congratulate everyone that has contributed towards making the game the way it is! Congratulations to the pro players out there who really push the limits of the game, the viewers who keep SC2 going strong, our community who work so hard to improve the game together with us, and everyone behind the scenes to make everything happen! Thank you!
They must have some really strong stuff over in California or heck maybe the water supply over here is full of LSD. I could not agree less and I think there is something completely flawed about the balance process and this community feedback.
Generally, right now T is clearly much stronger than P and Z and there are issues with PvZ. Statistics are misleading. Only top zerg players participate in most online tournaments making the statistics flawed. You will very frequently find Snute, Nerchio, Solar, Elazer, participate, while you will not find Showtime, Innovation, Marinelord, Neeb, Drogo, Major participating in such tournaments. Aligulac stats makes this even worse. The data distribution is unequal. You have to watch games and gather feedback from equally qualified players. Lets say - top 20 wcs players (Korea and Europe) and you will get the picture right.
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Leave the tank as it is and Let it perform the positional, area of control function. Instead nerf liberator or even better remove it from the game. It creates more stupid interactions than desirable ones.
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as i said many times before theres way to improve mech with cyclone, if Blizz doesnt want to buff damage overall of lockon pls, just pls short the time of shooting from 14 seconds to like so instead of 1 misslie doing 8 damage 1 shot would do 16 without changeing the damage overall. Also i still think hydras should get a buff, +10/15 hp seems good or +1armor at start or both even so unit is not that squishy as its damage is ok, nerf mines but buff cyclone AA  . Also yeah libs should be nerfed a bit.
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I think they shouldn't nerf the tank honestly. Widow mine shield nerf might be decent but what i really want is a lib nerf like everyone has been saying on twitter/reddit/etc. I feel in current patch toning down the liberator is acceptable with how strong tanks are unlike in old pvt balance where you could practically a-move tanks.
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Lets reduce the damage of Libs but then give them back the karger Circle or more Range. Alternatively give them cloak.
I'm fine with less +shield damage on Widowmines, but then give them an effective cloak like other burrowed Units....
Reduce Tank damage is also ok if larvae will cost supply and Build Time of Probes will be 10% more
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Does anyone else wonder at this point if maps are not a more central issue?
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.. because the desire to start testing specific changes is there within the community...
Apparently the community believes that the game should be balanced at least for pros, and thinks that PvT at 42% is not balanced... Absurd! Irrational!
reducing the +shield damage of Widow Mines
This is the right call, liberators and tanks defend pretty good by themselves
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The problem with TvP, I think is that:
The units Terran cheeses with are also the units it defends cheese with
The units it harasses with are also useful late in the game (widow mine drop openings every game, anyone?)
Tanks/Liberators offer the best space control in the game and Terran bio is also the most mobile composition ******
Also, Liberators and Cyclones both beat the shit out of Stalkers. But unless you open Stargate (blindly) you can't deal with Libs.
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On January 20 2017 05:11 ArtyK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 04:42 Pontius Pirate wrote:
Perhaps Liberators shouldn't 2-shot Stalkers without having to first invest in upgrades. I'd also like to see Stalkers given more wherewithal to clean out cleverly-positioned Liberators. If Zealots were just a touch better, that could also be helpful in those types of engagements, as well as encourage their usage in comparison with Adepts just a bit better. They die just a teeny bit too quickly.
I propose
Liberator ground damage reduced from 85 => 79
Liberator ground damage upgrade scaling 5 => 7
Stalker AA range 6 => 7 (ground range stays the same)
Zealot shields 50 => 60
stalkers have one armor so 80 would still 3-shot, and +5 per upgrade is enough :p as for zealot shield they would still die in one shot to WM with this value
Oops, my math is terrible. I wouldn't want to increase much health for Zealots unless they replaced charge with zealot legs. It definitely sounds like a reduction in WM shield damage would be the only appropriate solution. In an ideal world, the unit interactions would be adjusted such that Zealots can tank a single WM shot, but Adepts cannot. That might not be achievable wihout a major patch shifting around tons of different gateway units' strength.
I think the way I would do it would be to change the splash profile.
It is curently set to 40 + 40 shields in 1.75 radius
I would be interested in seeing it tested with 35 in 2 radius and + 3shields in 1 radius. This makes WM significantly less threatening against Probes, less effective against big clumps of Zealots and Stalkers, and helps to bring back Terran's HotS ability to pressure Zerg in the midgame, slightly compensating for the buffed Banelings.
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Norway839 Posts
bringing a matchup to +-10% on aligulac is a huge red flag and a feat in and of itself. even with the <insert your favorite aligulac flaws here>
surprised not to see it written out with a bit more concern for pvt
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Widow mines not doing bonus to shields would be a good place to start. Between mines, tanks, and liberators, space control is insanely good or the Terran.
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On January 20 2017 08:19 Liquid`Snute wrote:
bringing a matchup to +-10% on aligulac is a huge red flag and a feat in and of itself. even with the <insert your favorite aligulac flaws here>
surprised not to see it written out with a bit more concern for pvt
I feel like mentioning the matchup by name and saying there's a problem is already way better than they've done historically.
That's DK speak for WERE WORKING ON IT :D
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EDIT: accidental double post
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Just drastically reduce the WM shield damage on splash so that it's closer proportionally to the shield damage on the primary hit. Something like +15 or +10 to shields should make a big difference (goes from 3-shotting gateway units to 4-shotting, no longer one-shots sentries and templar).
The WM shield damage was a bandaid for HoTS TvP anyway. Now that Terran has other strong zoning tools there's no reason to keep it so strong--it makes absolutely no sense that the WM splash does MORE +damage to shields than the primary hit.
Tanks should be left alone, since they're only used in timings, not in macro TvP, and they are used in TvZ.
Protoss seem to deal with Liberators just fine once they get their colossus/disruptor deathball rolling, so any changes should be focused around nerfing their early-game potential (bring back ground-mode upgrade or add an armory requirement or reduce ground damage to 80 so it no longer 2-shots stalkers without upgrades).
But the WM change should definitely go in ASAP.
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19533 Posts
I agree with the widow mine change, the liberator deserves a nerf as well though (or a removal from the game  )
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I'd say removing (or significantly lowering) the widow mine +Shields damage on the splash and getting rid of the liberator range upgrade would be a good way to go. Maybe slightly nerf anti ground damage so stalkers survive 2 shots without upgrades.
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On January 20 2017 05:25 TentativePanda wrote:
They neverrrr help zerg. Doesn't matter that carriers have no counter (even in PvP!)? Doesn't matter that TvZ is still favored for terran?
Here are a few of my balance fixing options that I don't think I've heard very often (besides what I have to say about carriers):
Carrier: Make interceptors 5 more minerals (again) and/or remove release interceptor ability
Liberator: Fucking do something finally! This unit takes 3 clicks from a terran player to shutdown mineral lines, they dont even have to look at it. Just queue its position. It also is absolutely incredible at zoning. My suggestion is to make it a tad less beefy because it takes way too many queen/stalker/pheonix shots to kill them and/or slightly reduce the "freedom zone" size.
And here is my big one (something to consider): Terran have been benefitting from imba medivacs since they got the speed boost. I see zergs/terrans/protosses spot the medivac before it even gets to its destination and still dont have time to defend because the boost is basically blink for medivacs. I suggest removing this ability entirely. I would even be fine with giving the medivac a VERY slight natural speed boost as compensation. P.S I also think medivacs heal waaaay too fast, but I'll fight my battles one at a time haha.
Wait.... The release intereceptor ability is back ?
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I think Liberators without range are pretty interesting, and different enough from the tank to be worth keeping around. Especially the mechanic of having to constantly reposition the freedom circles while making sure that the Liberator itself isn't parked right on top of them (someone like Ty is really good at this). Plus the Terran late-game in both non-mirrors heavily depends on Liberators so you can't really nerf their raw combat power without overhauling the game.
So I would support removing the range upgrade, and maybe replacing it with a faster siege/unsiege upgrade for flavor (given that it's still on the fusion core it's going to be pretty niche). But I don't think Liberator range is the problem with TvP-- Protoss does fine when it comes to big army vs army fights.
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EPT
