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Let's be honest here, without swarm hosts zerg has almost no potential to harass a mech terran. Mech terran composition can defend with impunity if zerg doesn't have SH.
Let's assume SH is completely removed from the game. There is nearly zero potential for a zerg to harass a mech terran fortification. Give me one viable unit or tactic for a zerg to harass a mech terran.
Zerg needs SH to poke and harass a mech terran, because all other options are either incredibly difficult, or easily countered.
But SH shouldn't be a harass unit that is risk-free, which I believe it currently might be. If a mech terran catches a SH hit squad, the zerg should be punished. I think reducing the health of the SH would make them punishable. It should be reduced to the point two banshees with +1 attack can one shot the SH. If someone can give me that number please 
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Wow... i don't want be toxic but obviously this feedback is so pathetic..
"The overall quality of the events around the world seem pretty solid" : Really ? we lost a lot of big competition, all day all night people stop play Starcraft 2 and go on other games but yeah !! its look great !
"we wanted to congratulate everyone that has contributed towards making the game the way it is!" But the game sucks guys, wake up, we lost a big part of the community why say Thank you ? what did you change ? you listen the community ? When ? How ? If we were making a great job, Starcraft 2 will be come back on Twitch, a lot of people will come back on the game, where are these guys ? I was a big caster in France, i dont come back on the game... still no Tutorial... how u can be happy ? its unbelievable.
What is this new commucation about : Now we listen the community ? you input some old map cause you need to slow the game, cause you input +6 haversters with LOTV for no valaible reason, all the pro player stop the game cause we can't read the build order and we can't counter like on WOL/HOTS... game lenght is 13 min now, late game is 9 min now... what is this game ?
It's 6 month now, you communicate on how about you listen the community and what change ? that just proof that you don't know what to do, so you think if you do what "most of the people think" we good.. but no... Do exactly what you girlfriend want all day, and you will lost here, life is more complicated than this.
Like i said on a previous youtube video : /https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5xgjsv71y8&t=1s the BIG problem of Starcraft 2 is not the balance, you can buff or not Hydralisk, people will not come back on the game, the big problem is on the speed, you make a wrong decision with the 12 harvester start, that's broke the game, cause you can't have a good Esport game if casual player can't play it. And now, only Pro player, David Kim, Caster, and people who spend her life on this game can play it, for other people it's just too fast, too boring, one game it's 2 liberator at 3 min mark, an other it's a drop with a tank on your B1, you have no time to scout, to read, you need some good mechanics all the game, it's just stupid Blizzard.
Starcraft 2 is a copy paste of Starcraft Broodwar on a lot of things, but you add this 12 harvester and you kill the game sens that's all, so you can spend 3 years to congrats the community, you just kill the game to gain 2 min on early game for no reason, i was a caster, i see a lot of game, was my job, and even this slow start was cool, you have time to speak about the map, about the player, was interesting to watch the timing of the gas, of the scout, now you take your gas always at the same time, you dont lose money if you scout too earlier, sorry David, but this game now, was not the great game we had with wol/hots. You had just to add unit to open the valaible composition possible, and you choose to add 6 harvesters first... how to kill a game for nothing, for 2 min.. congratz.
Sorry for my english, was german first language in school, and i don't speak german too
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On January 21 2017 05:54 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2017 04:38 avilo wrote:
But Protoss/Zerg never adapt to anything whatsoever. 1 week after changes they are spoon fed ridiculous buffs, and another round of 1000's of players quit SC2.
Seriously, coming from the guy who decide against all odd he wants to play mech ? You playing mech to adapt to the playstyle of the other ? As zerg,i've never started the game thinking : "Well i'd like to do this, so i do this", i'm just forced to play what i must do, oh the T want's to play the boring mech style, i'm forced to play the anti-mech way while i wanted to play LBM... Terran is the race with the initiative, it's just your playstyle where your turtle at home and let the other do what he wants.
That guy is full of shit.
What "adaptation" is he talking about when Terran masses MMMM each & every single game?
The only time terrans need to "adapt" is when ultralisk/storms/collosus are on the field. But with liberators to counter everything z&p can throw at terrans.
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TERRAN:
Liberator: 85(+5) => 80(+5); ( stalker => 3 shot; hydra(+1 armor =2shot).
Siege Tank: Health 175 =>160 and 32s=>42s; or 150/125 => 200/150.
PROTOSS:
Colossus: 12(+1)x2 => 12(+2)x2.
Tempest: supply( 6)=>(4).
Zerg: keep stable.
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On January 21 2017 04:49 hiroshOne wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2017 04:38 avilo wrote:On January 20 2017 11:20 SirPinky wrote:
CAN A PATCH BE OUT LONGER THAN 5 WEEKS BEFORE THERE IS A NERF??? Why does this always happen with Terran and not other races. Terran's are asked to "deal" with things like BL/Infestor, 8 armor ultra, swarm hosts, mass adepts, blink stalker all-ins - FOR MONTHS (in some cases entire expansions). Then one patch comes out, with very little data, then it's "Yup, we need to nerf Terran."
Do you people realize WM's have not been changed for YEARS? Liberator has been nerfed TWICE into oblivion and no longer counter any anti-air? Tankivacs were removed, so the balance was offset by a stronger tank. We haven't even seen a new map pool since this patch went live!
Why is there not talk about the cost of SH being the cost of a Maurader? Or Carriers dominating late game with inteceptors essentially being free? Deal with it kids. You sound like whiney brats; in which some people posting sound like they have not even played the game in months. This is a very accurate post. We've seen throughout the history of the game the other races get the most absurd things like perma cloak infestors, and swarmhost locusts that now fly into your base and run at lightspeed. But Terran has to "adapt" to these things and win with superior skill and the top koreans somehow manage it. But Protoss/Zerg never adapt to anything whatsoever. 1 week after changes they are spoon fed ridiculous buffs, and another round of 1000's of players quit SC2. I know that sounds bad...but it's what's happened throughout the majority of the game's lifespan. Sad people still don't realize it yet. Another point for this thread...i honestly think we should hi-jack this thread from the devs and just make this discussion about Swarmhosts/Carriers since the developers don't want to have any reasonable discussion about balance anymore and they've made that very clear. Let's start talking about swarmhost and carrier balance which is impacting the game 100000x more than tanks and mines ever have lmao. A lot of people that are rational in this thread have already brought up these absurd units. They definitely need changes, swarmhosts in particular are too strong versus both Protoss and Terran mech, maybe even in ZvZ mid/late game they are a bit worrisome. The unit just doesn't belong in the game honestly because it produces free units that don't even have an energy cost. The unit also is priced too cheaply. As for carriers, i've played and seen games on ladder and pro level where the Protoss builds 2-3 stargate carrier, and essentially collects an autowin versus Zerg because there's no longer any counter play to the unit. Previously you could opt to go for the interceptors instead of suiciding onto the carriers. With the interceptor change, you have no option - you must suicide onto the carriers themselves. Which then becomes theoretically and practically impossible due to archon splash and psi storm with the carriers. These two units need to be looked at by the developers ASAP, along with mech anti-air problems. Let's get the discussion trending on actual balance issues, rather than community fabricated ones on how to nerf Terran over and over. U're so fucking full of shit...Zerg doesn't adapt? Zerg race is designed to adapt you fool. We adapted to every freaking shit that Blizzard threw at us with hands of Terran. Medivak boost, widomines, hellbats, mech. But sometimes they manage to give Terran so OP shit that adapting is not possible. And You...You of all Terrans are talking aboit adapting???TThat's jist hilarious. When did u adapt to anything???
How Zerg adapted to LOTV:
-zergling adrenal gland buff
-nydus worm buff / re-design to be uncounterable/untargettable
-ultralisk +armor buff that ruined the first year of LOTV
-corruptor buff with added ability for free
-broodlord buff at start of LOTV + 1range
-arbitrary hydralisk buffs
-viper buff with added ability for free (para bomb), blinding cloud buff at one point early on in LOTV arbitrarily
-roach buff in form of ravager with free ability added
-arbitrary and most random +queen range buff after nerfing the liberator many times beforehand
-spore/spine root time buffs
-most current swarmhost insane buffs
-most current infestor insane permacloak buff
-most recent arbitrary and insane baneling health buff
How is that adaptation? That's not even an argument from me or anyone it's just me listing that every single Zerg unit in the game except for the drone was arbitrarily buffed before LOTV even began.
Historically, over the last year the only OP Terran unit in the game was the liberator which received many buffs to the point that it cannot kill corruptors/trade with anything anymore. And now people are asking for even more liberator buffs not remembering that things like queens were made completely bullshit with +range specifically to deal with liberators. Will the queen buff be reverted if liberators are further nerfed?
As the other poster i quoted in this thread said, historically, Z/P players have never adapted to the game or superiority of korean Terrans. At one point in time Protosses were even complaining about the 1/1/1 build which had a really easy counter from Protoss with their own 1/1/1 immortals/phoenix etc. But you remember what happened right? Blizzard hand picked an arbitrary immortal buff lol to make it so Terran no longer had any all-ins VS toss while leaving every single Protoss all-in still available to Protoss xD
The anti-Terran bias from the dev team has existed for years, and the community now is buying into it and spreading that Terran needs to be nerfed because of some mysterious winrate that people keep quoting.
There was one point at time in HOTS when 99% of the community was complaining Zerg has no counter to mech and 100% of the SC2 Zergs at pro level and on ladder refused to build more than 6 vipers per game, let alone some games build ZERO vipers lol.
Then on the other end of the spectrum, mech has been nerfed mysteriously 50 times throughout SC2's history, over and over, never given any anti-air, and finally the one time they decide to give in and buff the siege tank the buff is so irrelevant because they simultaneously buffed so many anti-mech things in the game like the current absurd swarmhost lol.
So now Blizzard puts out an update saying they wanna nerf 3 more mech units? Give me a break. Their update is laughable.
User was warned for this post
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On January 21 2017 15:12 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2017 04:49 hiroshOne wrote:On January 21 2017 04:38 avilo wrote:On January 20 2017 11:20 SirPinky wrote:
CAN A PATCH BE OUT LONGER THAN 5 WEEKS BEFORE THERE IS A NERF??? Why does this always happen with Terran and not other races. Terran's are asked to "deal" with things like BL/Infestor, 8 armor ultra, swarm hosts, mass adepts, blink stalker all-ins - FOR MONTHS (in some cases entire expansions). Then one patch comes out, with very little data, then it's "Yup, we need to nerf Terran."
Do you people realize WM's have not been changed for YEARS? Liberator has been nerfed TWICE into oblivion and no longer counter any anti-air? Tankivacs were removed, so the balance was offset by a stronger tank. We haven't even seen a new map pool since this patch went live!
Why is there not talk about the cost of SH being the cost of a Maurader? Or Carriers dominating late game with inteceptors essentially being free? Deal with it kids. You sound like whiney brats; in which some people posting sound like they have not even played the game in months. This is a very accurate post. We've seen throughout the history of the game the other races get the most absurd things like perma cloak infestors, and swarmhost locusts that now fly into your base and run at lightspeed. But Terran has to "adapt" to these things and win with superior skill and the top koreans somehow manage it. But Protoss/Zerg never adapt to anything whatsoever. 1 week after changes they are spoon fed ridiculous buffs, and another round of 1000's of players quit SC2. I know that sounds bad...but it's what's happened throughout the majority of the game's lifespan. Sad people still don't realize it yet. Another point for this thread...i honestly think we should hi-jack this thread from the devs and just make this discussion about Swarmhosts/Carriers since the developers don't want to have any reasonable discussion about balance anymore and they've made that very clear. Let's start talking about swarmhost and carrier balance which is impacting the game 100000x more than tanks and mines ever have lmao. A lot of people that are rational in this thread have already brought up these absurd units. They definitely need changes, swarmhosts in particular are too strong versus both Protoss and Terran mech, maybe even in ZvZ mid/late game they are a bit worrisome. The unit just doesn't belong in the game honestly because it produces free units that don't even have an energy cost. The unit also is priced too cheaply. As for carriers, i've played and seen games on ladder and pro level where the Protoss builds 2-3 stargate carrier, and essentially collects an autowin versus Zerg because there's no longer any counter play to the unit. Previously you could opt to go for the interceptors instead of suiciding onto the carriers. With the interceptor change, you have no option - you must suicide onto the carriers themselves. Which then becomes theoretically and practically impossible due to archon splash and psi storm with the carriers. These two units need to be looked at by the developers ASAP, along with mech anti-air problems. Let's get the discussion trending on actual balance issues, rather than community fabricated ones on how to nerf Terran over and over. U're so fucking full of shit...Zerg doesn't adapt? Zerg race is designed to adapt you fool. We adapted to every freaking shit that Blizzard threw at us with hands of Terran. Medivak boost, widomines, hellbats, mech. But sometimes they manage to give Terran so OP shit that adapting is not possible. And You...You of all Terrans are talking aboit adapting???TThat's jist hilarious. When did u adapt to anything??? How Zerg adapted to LOTV: -zergling adrenal gland buff -nydus worm buff / re-design to be uncounterable/untargettable -ultralisk +armor buff that ruined the first year of LOTV -corruptor buff with added ability for free -broodlord buff at start of LOTV + 1range -arbitrary hydralisk buffs -viper buff with added ability for free (para bomb), blinding cloud buff at one point early on in LOTV arbitrarily -roach buff in form of ravager with free ability added -arbitrary and most random +queen range buff after nerfing the liberator many times beforehand -spore/spine root time buffs -most current swarmhost insane buffs -most current infestor insane permacloak buff -most recent arbitrary and insane baneling health buff How is that adaptation? That's not even an argument from me or anyone it's just me listing that every single Zerg unit in the game except for the drone was arbitrarily buffed before LOTV even began. Historically, over the last year the only OP Terran unit in the game was the liberator which received many buffs to the point that it cannot kill corruptors/trade with anything anymore. And now people are asking for even more liberator buffs not remembering that things like queens were made completely bullshit with +range specifically to deal with liberators. Will the queen buff be reverted if liberators are further nerfed? As the other poster i quoted in this thread said, historically, Z/P players have never adapted to the game or superiority of korean Terrans. At one point in time Protosses were even complaining about the 1/1/1 build which had a really easy counter from Protoss with their own 1/1/1 immortals/phoenix etc. But you remember what happened right? Blizzard hand picked an arbitrary immortal buff lol to make it so Terran no longer had any all-ins VS toss while leaving every single Protoss all-in still available to Protoss xD The anti-Terran bias from the dev team has existed for years, and the community now is buying into it and spreading that Terran needs to be nerfed because of some mysterious winrate that people keep quoting. There was one point at time in HOTS when 99% of the community was complaining Zerg has no counter to mech and 100% of the SC2 Zergs at pro level and on ladder refused to build more than 6 vipers per game, let alone some games build ZERO vipers lol. Then on the other end of the spectrum, mech has been nerfed mysteriously 50 times throughout SC2's history, over and over, never given any anti-air, and finally the one time they decide to give in and buff the siege tank the buff is so irrelevant because they simultaneously buffed so many anti-mech things in the game like the current absurd swarmhost lol. So now Blizzard puts out an update saying they wanna nerf 3 more mech units? Give me a break. Their update is laughable.
at least they said: "Our current position on this matchup is that we aren’t seeing a specific problem that needs to be fixed"
maybe there's a good chance that not all 3 will be nerfed.
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I would like to add a topic to this massive whine. The problem is that Blizz wanted to make sc2 game of agression and they did, but not equally for everyone. They wanted to make sc2 a game with high skill cap but not equally for everyone. We focus on pro gamers but the game's core are casualss - diamond and lower league players. Lets take an example to ilustrate what i'm about here:
For example Terran and his double medivak, 16 marines with stim drop- Byun style. As in GM and pro its relatively easy to defend whrn u know its coming, in lower leagues it pretty much often ends the game for Zerg. Its because Blizzard decided that attacking must be easier than defending agression especially in matchups against Terran. Its easy to rush to 16 marines, 2 medivacks and stim- drop it in mineral line, stim and a-move everythingg even for low league players. But defending it is not. U need to have right amount of lings, banes and Queens. U nust hit every transfuse, snipe medivacks with queens and choose carefuly where u engage those marines (minerals blocking attack paths and shit).
U kknowwhat i mean? There are more examples. I feel like its the fault of design. In perfect world attacking and defending should be equally difficult for both players. Now, this example i made- is giving huge advantage to Terran. I hope it was clear what i ment, as english is not my native.
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I really don't know how to respond to this anymore. They aren't up to the task. They have a game that is already heavily in decline but won't accept any evidence that they're doing a bad job.
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On January 21 2017 18:26 Probe1 wrote:
I really don't know how to respond to this anymore. They aren't up to the task. They have a game that is already heavily in decline but won't accept any evidence that they're doing a bad job.
Yeah, this is kind of the last straw for me, honestly. I've doubted blizzards competence for a long time but have tried to bite my tongue and just hope they do something right. This update just shows they have no idea what they're doing unfortunately. Hate to say it. not everything is fine, this game is in the worst state its ever been. I almost feel bad for the guys over at blizzard. They're just trying to do their job and I know its a really hard job to do. But that doesn't change that the game is really bad right now, and pretending it's not doesn't do anybody any good.
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On January 21 2017 15:12 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2017 04:49 hiroshOne wrote:On January 21 2017 04:38 avilo wrote:On January 20 2017 11:20 SirPinky wrote:
CAN A PATCH BE OUT LONGER THAN 5 WEEKS BEFORE THERE IS A NERF??? Why does this always happen with Terran and not other races. Terran's are asked to "deal" with things like BL/Infestor, 8 armor ultra, swarm hosts, mass adepts, blink stalker all-ins - FOR MONTHS (in some cases entire expansions). Then one patch comes out, with very little data, then it's "Yup, we need to nerf Terran."
Do you people realize WM's have not been changed for YEARS? Liberator has been nerfed TWICE into oblivion and no longer counter any anti-air? Tankivacs were removed, so the balance was offset by a stronger tank. We haven't even seen a new map pool since this patch went live!
Why is there not talk about the cost of SH being the cost of a Maurader? Or Carriers dominating late game with inteceptors essentially being free? Deal with it kids. You sound like whiney brats; in which some people posting sound like they have not even played the game in months. This is a very accurate post. We've seen throughout the history of the game the other races get the most absurd things like perma cloak infestors, and swarmhost locusts that now fly into your base and run at lightspeed. But Terran has to "adapt" to these things and win with superior skill and the top koreans somehow manage it. But Protoss/Zerg never adapt to anything whatsoever. 1 week after changes they are spoon fed ridiculous buffs, and another round of 1000's of players quit SC2. I know that sounds bad...but it's what's happened throughout the majority of the game's lifespan. Sad people still don't realize it yet. Another point for this thread...i honestly think we should hi-jack this thread from the devs and just make this discussion about Swarmhosts/Carriers since the developers don't want to have any reasonable discussion about balance anymore and they've made that very clear. Let's start talking about swarmhost and carrier balance which is impacting the game 100000x more than tanks and mines ever have lmao. A lot of people that are rational in this thread have already brought up these absurd units. They definitely need changes, swarmhosts in particular are too strong versus both Protoss and Terran mech, maybe even in ZvZ mid/late game they are a bit worrisome. The unit just doesn't belong in the game honestly because it produces free units that don't even have an energy cost. The unit also is priced too cheaply. As for carriers, i've played and seen games on ladder and pro level where the Protoss builds 2-3 stargate carrier, and essentially collects an autowin versus Zerg because there's no longer any counter play to the unit. Previously you could opt to go for the interceptors instead of suiciding onto the carriers. With the interceptor change, you have no option - you must suicide onto the carriers themselves. Which then becomes theoretically and practically impossible due to archon splash and psi storm with the carriers. These two units need to be looked at by the developers ASAP, along with mech anti-air problems. Let's get the discussion trending on actual balance issues, rather than community fabricated ones on how to nerf Terran over and over. U're so fucking full of shit...Zerg doesn't adapt? Zerg race is designed to adapt you fool. We adapted to every freaking shit that Blizzard threw at us with hands of Terran. Medivak boost, widomines, hellbats, mech. But sometimes they manage to give Terran so OP shit that adapting is not possible. And You...You of all Terrans are talking aboit adapting???TThat's jist hilarious. When did u adapt to anything??? How Zerg adapted to LOTV: -zergling adrenal gland buff -nydus worm buff / re-design to be uncounterable/untargettable -ultralisk +armor buff that ruined the first year of LOTV -corruptor buff with added ability for free -broodlord buff at start of LOTV + 1range -arbitrary hydralisk buffs -viper buff with added ability for free (para bomb), blinding cloud buff at one point early on in LOTV arbitrarily -roach buff in form of ravager with free ability added -arbitrary and most random +queen range buff after nerfing the liberator many times beforehand -spore/spine root time buffs -most current swarmhost insane buffs -most current infestor insane permacloak buff -most recent arbitrary and insane baneling health buff How is that adaptation? That's not even an argument from me or anyone it's just me listing that every single Zerg unit in the game except for the drone was arbitrarily buffed before LOTV even began. Historically, over the last year the only OP Terran unit in the game was the liberator which received many buffs to the point that it cannot kill corruptors/trade with anything anymore. And now people are asking for even more liberator buffs not remembering that things like queens were made completely bullshit with +range specifically to deal with liberators. Will the queen buff be reverted if liberators are further nerfed? As the other poster i quoted in this thread said, historically, Z/P players have never adapted to the game or superiority of korean Terrans. At one point in time Protosses were even complaining about the 1/1/1 build which had a really easy counter from Protoss with their own 1/1/1 immortals/phoenix etc. But you remember what happened right? Blizzard hand picked an arbitrary immortal buff lol to make it so Terran no longer had any all-ins VS toss while leaving every single Protoss all-in still available to Protoss xD The anti-Terran bias from the dev team has existed for years, and the community now is buying into it and spreading that Terran needs to be nerfed because of some mysterious winrate that people keep quoting. There was one point at time in HOTS when 99% of the community was complaining Zerg has no counter to mech and 100% of the SC2 Zergs at pro level and on ladder refused to build more than 6 vipers per game, let alone some games build ZERO vipers lol. Then on the other end of the spectrum, mech has been nerfed mysteriously 50 times throughout SC2's history, over and over, never given any anti-air, and finally the one time they decide to give in and buff the siege tank the buff is so irrelevant because they simultaneously buffed so many anti-mech things in the game like the current absurd swarmhost lol. So now Blizzard puts out an update saying they wanna nerf 3 more mech units? Give me a break. Their update is laughable. User was warned for this post
Please keep your raging act to your stream and stay away from balance, you're just an awful barely 5.5k mmr player on Na, and when you want to prove how op zerg is you play your 5k zerg matches, wonder why you're not 7k mmr with zerg.
You say carriers have no counter when they are completely useless vs Bcs, Protoss cant do shit vs
Yamato PDd late game.
I'll stop here because you don't really deserve any attention, hopefully you'll be banned on TL as well.
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TY went for mech in gsl against armani, who built swarm hostsand killed ty no problem. Granted armani was already winning but if pro terran start to go mech and pro zerg start to shut it down with shs, maybe the issue will finally be acknowledged.
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Very funny as both Zergs in this group didn't advance. Yeah, let's nerf Zerg more and buff mech more. That will definitely make things better. You know...there are many game where pro Terran goes mech and Pro Zerg is trying to shotdown and fails to do so. Your argument is invalid.
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On January 21 2017 21:38 JackONeill wrote:
TY went for mech in gsl against armani, who built swarm hostsand killed ty no problem. Granted armani was already winning but if pro terran start to go mech and pro zerg start to shut it down with shs, maybe the issue will finally be acknowledged.
I hope so. It is unnecessary having a single unit preventing an entire playstyle. All Blizzard has to do is to increase the price of Swarm Hosts so that mass Swarm Hosts comes at a later timing.
Mech can deal with Swarm Hosts in the late game but the problem is that Swarm Hosts comes in mass to early before Terran has enough hellbats with bluflame to deal with the locust.
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On January 21 2017 21:47 hiroshOne wrote:
Very funny as both Zergs in this group didn't advance. Yeah, let's nerf Zerg more and buff mech more. That will definitely make things better. You know...there are many game where pro Terran goes mech and Pro Zerg is trying to shotdown and fails to do so. Your argument is invalid.
I love people focusing on balance instead of how the game works.
If reapers dealt 50 damage per shot but that mutas had 500 hps, would TvZ it be zerg favored? Probably not since they'll die before the 4 min mark. With doesn't change the fact that the design would be extremely stupid.
Armani choked hard vs TY especially in game 3, and TY completely outplayed Solar, especially on whirlwind. And no one talked about a SH nerf, but a redesign for it to be usefull in other roles than shutting mech down. So please cut the waterworks.
And please, show us the games you're talking about. Show us any pro mech game where terran hasn't already won with his initial harass phase and where the zerg goes for swarm hosts. I'd be extremely interested.
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On January 21 2017 06:39 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:But SH shouldn't be a harass unit that is risk-free, which I believe it currently might be. If a mech terran catches a SH hit squad, the zerg should be punished. I think reducing the health of the SH would make them punishable. It should be reduced to the point two banshees with +1 attack can one shot the SH. If someone can give me that number please
You're right on principle, but 52 health is unreasonably low for a SH.
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On January 21 2017 21:38 JackONeill wrote:
TY went for mech in gsl against armani, who built swarm hostsand killed ty no problem. Granted armani was already winning but if pro terran start to go mech and pro zerg start to shut it down with shs, maybe the issue will finally be acknowledged.
You say it yourself: Armani was already ahead. You're saying that if a Z sees a T player going mech, and is in the lead, then they didn't be able to do anything about it?
I don't feel like that's a very good way at looking at matchups add trying to find balance in the game. I feel like that's like those people who get their spire scouted, then proceed to be sad that the T poster put up defenses in their main and just shut it down.
There is supposed to be an answer to mech, and right now, that is swarm hosts.
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SC2 is doomed.
It is kinda obvious that SC2 is lacking the clear vision of one brilliant mind who has envisioned how every little detail and interaction must look like and subordinate everything else to it. Fixing SC2 can no longer be a group effort based on democratic decisions, making it this way one time and the other way the other time to make everyone happy and to take each narrative into concern. The issues are too diverse and overwhelming. Decisions must be made instead of holding discussions. Reasonability must be created instead of balance. Sources must be attacked instead of surfaces. The only thing that can fix SC2 is the route of highest risks and highest casualties but highest potential reward. And it still would only work out if everything would be subordinated to that one vision and narrative of SC2 no matter what.
The latest chance of a 3/4 year development recap was not only missed but heavily failed. Buffs over nerfs once again proved to be as wrong as they were in 2010. Community feedback will continue to show up issues of tiny nature about high level balance but they wont bring the great effort of a rounded construct, that SC2 requires to be in order to become a satisfying gameplay experience. That can only come out of a single mind or very few minds that think alike.
What SC2 is, is the consequence of mixing up different kinds of good ideas and approaches instead of strictly following one basic vision and concept and dissmissing others. It is the offort of making everybody happy. Games should not take longer than X amount of time. Game should have constant action. Buffs over nerfs. One unit must be cooler than the other. You got exactly that, nothing else is SC2 now.
Add to that that inner racial balance is fucked up and needs to be redone from zero. Hydralisk tier 2 is quite odd with no other real anti air than that. Terran building one kind of unit mix that is best in main army, best in harrassment and best in base def at the same time. Protoss being as bad that it requires first force fields and colossi in every mix and then nexus/pylon cannon and MSC teleport to stay competitive at all.
It is really not my thing to blame few single persons as SC2 was a group effort. But at this point of time personnel consequences are inevitable. What does Dustin Browder that crashed the whole C&C series into ground have to do with starcraft? Starcraft is the level he has never reached with about 10+ C&C titles throughout the years and continues to do so with SC2. DB is probably the right guy to make games look cool and sell them but not to give them a solid substance for years to hold. DK, probably not even responsible for the mess that SC2 is himself, is still not the right guy to pull it out of that.
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On January 22 2017 04:22 LSN wrote:
SC2 is doomed.
Man, I'm starting to actually love these threads, it's kind like watching a comical show 
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SC2 is doomed to remain in the uncomplete state it has been in since the beginning. It cannot be fixed with current philosophies and ways of doing things. It is doomed to continue with what it is doing wrong.
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Except for all the people who enjoy the game.
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's doomed.
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EPT
