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Please, wait a bit before nerfing liberators and chaging tvp
Don't you remember the roc period where every Terran went for 1 base 1-1-1 cloacked banshees marines and tanks and totally destroyed protoss for some weeks or months. Though protoss found a way to deal with it (without any buff) and made this strategy pretty useless. I'm sure top Protoss will find a way to coop with Liberators and Innovation push.
By the way, nerf carrier, it is way too abusive in lower leagues and it will drive away promising players. Because towers + mass air strategy is not what sc2 needs and what people want for sc2. If we wanted to sit back behind towers regardless of what the opponent does, we would just play League of Legend.
Much love,
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On January 20 2017 21:38 SSMMA wrote:
Don't you remember the roc period where every Terran went for 1 base 1-1-1 cloacked banshees marines and tanks and totally destroyed protoss for some weeks or months. Though protoss found a way to deal with it (without any buff) and made this strategy pretty useless.
I am not sure, but didn't the immortal receive a range buff for this very issue? I might be wrong.
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On January 20 2017 04:34 bObA wrote:
Protoss has been being OP vs terran for months, terran should adapt with everything and for only 2 or 3 weeks it seems there is a bit too op for terran and immediately we are talking about nerfing Terran...
When Protoss was imba in multiple ways, terran should find strategies and adapt to survive.
I remember the time when Innovation TY and Maru got rekt by Zest stats and $o$.
And as a terran player, we lost tankivas for a damage buff and now what ? we won't have tankivas anymore and the buff will be cancelled ?
PvT dropped under 40% wirate. How many Protoss do you encounter on ladder? Me about 1 in 10 games.
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Who is that "majority of you" who dont want give some love to Hydras? Everything I see is asking for buff.
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remove lib range and it will be better for everyone, tvt, tvp and tvz. But ffs dont tone down the tank or widow mines. The tank is finally decent and mines are more less the only splash unit.
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On January 20 2017 19:34 hiroshOne wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 17:37 LHK wrote:On January 20 2017 17:34 starslayer wrote:
i say nerf all air units and than work from there. I would really like to see something done about mobility and ignoring terrain, honestly. Love my ground positional play. doesn't do much good to cry about how fast medivacs are as it won't ever change but it's something thats bothered me since hots came out. I think that sc2 went spiral down just after introducing medivack boost. This one decision snowballed into many, many other bad bandaid decisions that ultimately broke the game. After medi boost, they buffed Mutalisks, and because of mutalisks they introduced widomines and so on and on. This one change provoked all this bad design problems changing real strategy game to "kill workers instant and win" game.
Totally agrees with this.
Things snowball when they start boosting the "speed" of units.
Being faster means players can forgo good positioning & escape bad fights due to bad positioning with little to no risks.
There's nothing your opponent can do to counter that when you have 1000x more move speed.
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first of all, i know my post here arent always formulated in a nice manner and im sorry of that. Still I want to bring my thoughts on this topic in here, since there already seem to be a lot of discussions regarding the balance changes.
To clarify things, i started playing SC2 when HotS launched and already back then, people said WoL or the old unit designs in general were more enjoyable to play. You see, its a common thing to claim "old is better". Although one can blame this on harrasment units beeing way stronger nowadays or the new worker count in LotV beeing higher than before (which in my opinion is the best thing that happened to this game in a long time, since you dont have to build up your worker count 2 minutes first, before making any adjustments to your build), those are still personal opinions. I dont think the game is ruined in any way yet but the fact that there dont seem to be effective changes incoming is a reason to be worried indeed.
I have spent a lot of time playing and studying this game. Its a masterpiece and despite may beeing a bit toxic ingames, I still care a lot about it and it beeing enjoyable. Therefore i understand why people are attacking the balance team. It really feels like they dont play the game at all. Or even watch tournament games. Their work (in terms of changing the game up) is nothing to be proud of in the slightest. I know that it requires a lot of technical skill to patch certain things and not make them buggy, but when I watch TL-threads or other forums about SC2 it SHOCKS me, that causal ladder players come up with TEN TIMES BETTER CHANGES than the balance team itself.
For example, i read something about a change to the Liberators attack in here, to make them 3 shot stalkers without an attack upgrade, but 2 shot them with the upgrade. a simple change, that doesnt give the terran the option to kill the toss with a lucky lib-rallying in the early-mid-game straight away, while also not killing its purpose in the late game entirely. As far as i have watched throught the units-guide, this shouldnt affect any other matchup or at least not give terran an/a advantage/disadvantage.
Compared to the changes blizzard implements (or doesnt), its reasonable that one gets upset with the team. just honest words.
And last but not least, I TOTALLY agree with the community claiming blizzard just makes us stay with their stupid PR shit. The "redesign" was not more than the mineral and the worker change. Sure, chrono doesnt have to be used every 25 energy and larva injects are queueable, but still.
-We didnt get the hydra as a key zerg unit, tanks get nerfed back, old collossus are pretty much back as they were (just that they deal less damage, but faster)
It feels like playing HotS again, having LotV just bought to spend money and beeing able to keep up playing the game (nobody really wants to get good at old expansions, right?^^) As dedicated player it makes me simply angry, to see blazzurd not giving a shit about their own game or the community. just PR, PR everywhere
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also i dont want to say, we have to work every community suggestion into the game, i just say that they are better than blizzards suggestions. (since they dont play the game)
also sorry for bad engrish
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We’ve been seeing more discussion regarding PvT. Our current position on this matchup is that we aren’t seeing a specific problem that needs to be fixed.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OsaR7XC.png)
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On January 20 2017 23:14 Tosster wrote:Show nested quote +
We’ve been seeing more discussion regarding PvT. Our current position on this matchup is that we aren’t seeing a specific problem that needs to be fixed.
when it will be at least few hundreds games in tvp then we can talk.
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On January 20 2017 23:28 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 23:14 Tosster wrote:
We’ve been seeing more discussion regarding PvT. Our current position on this matchup is that we aren’t seeing a specific problem that needs to be fixed.
when it will be at least few hundreds games in tvp then we can talk.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Y4NONSy.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/04gN2Ts.png)
What now?
Will I hear "People don't like playing protoss"?
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On January 20 2017 21:58 ioncreature wrote:
Who is that "majority of you" who dont want give some love to Hydras? Everything I see is asking for buff.
The people on the b.net forums - the forums that they posted that information on.
Though I do think it's worth noting that I feel those forums are heavily T - centric, and would have a disproportionate number of people wanting to continue to buff T for some reason.
On January 20 2017 23:31 Tosster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 23:28 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:On January 20 2017 23:14 Tosster wrote:
We’ve been seeing more discussion regarding PvT. Our current position on this matchup is that we aren’t seeing a specific problem that needs to be fixed.
when it will be at least few hundreds games in tvp then we can talk. What now? Will I hear "People don't like playing protoss"?
Well, technically, "People don't like playing protoss" wouldn't be wrong...they just don't like playing it because it gets stomped into the ground most of the time. 
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On January 20 2017 23:31 Tosster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 23:28 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:On January 20 2017 23:14 Tosster wrote:
We’ve been seeing more discussion regarding PvT. Our current position on this matchup is that we aren’t seeing a specific problem that needs to be fixed.
when it will be at least few hundreds games in tvp then we can talk. What now? Will I hear "People don't like playing protoss"?
it's just a matter of time, i've heard Stats feels not terrible in pvt, one man protoss as well as Dark for zergs.
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for crying out loud are those updates back to nothing but DK patting himself on the back? Only adressing the most urgent balance issue while completely ignoring the rest of the concerns the game faces?
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On January 21 2017 00:09 JackONeill wrote:
for crying out loud are those updates back to nothing but DK patting himself on the back? Only adressing the most urgent balance issue while completely ignoring the rest of the concerns the game faces?
Yeah it's really not worth the time it takes to write that down tbh. As i said in the last thread, i would rather see less updates but more detailed ones. I wanna see reasoning, ideas, goals so the community actually understands what is going on. I get that most people aren't interested in actual "meat" but the sc2 community has a few very dedicated people who would be happy to get more insight.
That's especially true because david now accused the community two times of only complaining and having no solutions. Well it's hard to make constructive posts when the updates lack any relevant information
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Oh, and one thing i still want to say. It seems to me like the patches often hit so late, that people most of the time already figured out how to counter a certain thing or play around it. And when the solution is finally here, it gets changed again. The best example for that was the cylone hellion style in TvZ i think. INNovatioN somehow made it work, then it got patched.
dont want to say it was perfectly refined already, but it was going towards a direction, causual players could use it as well.
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On January 20 2017 23:51 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 23:31 Tosster wrote:On January 20 2017 23:28 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:On January 20 2017 23:14 Tosster wrote:
We’ve been seeing more discussion regarding PvT. Our current position on this matchup is that we aren’t seeing a specific problem that needs to be fixed.
when it will be at least few hundreds games in tvp then we can talk. What now? Will I hear "People don't like playing protoss"? it's just a matter of time, i've heard Stats feels not terrible in pvt, one man protoss as well as Dark for zergs.
I take it you didn't watch Stats vs Innovation? Last time I checked, Stats had under 50% win rate on ladder, versus Terran. You making things up man?
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On January 21 2017 00:34 Dungeontay wrote:
Oh, and one thing i still want to say. It seems to me like the patches often hit so late, that people most of the time already figured out how to counter a certain thing or play around it. And when the solution is finally here, it gets changed again. The best example for that was the cylone hellion style in TvZ i think. INNovatioN somehow made it work, then it got patched.
dont want to say it was perfectly refined already, but it was going towards a direction, causual players could use it as well.
Perhaps that's the reason why you see such hesitation in actually putting out patches & updates?
They're trying to establish what actually is an issue, vs. what people just don't enjoy playing against right now.
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On January 21 2017 00:46 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 23:51 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:On January 20 2017 23:31 Tosster wrote:On January 20 2017 23:28 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:On January 20 2017 23:14 Tosster wrote:
We’ve been seeing more discussion regarding PvT. Our current position on this matchup is that we aren’t seeing a specific problem that needs to be fixed.
when it will be at least few hundreds games in tvp then we can talk. What now? Will I hear "People don't like playing protoss"? it's just a matter of time, i've heard Stats feels not terrible in pvt, one man protoss as well as Dark for zergs. I take it you didn't watch Stats vs Innovation? Last time I checked, Stats had under 50% win rate on ladder, versus Terran. You making things up man?
he beat maru very confidently previously, but innovation is a monster and for some reason stats played very bad vs him compare to vs maru, +1 attack for 4 phoenixes in 1st game, then couple of dumb allins, what was that lol. oh yes I watched that, every replay very attentively.
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We heard your feedback, and it sounds like majority of you would like to shelf the Hydralisk buff for now. We’ll revisit this discussion if concerns about the unit come up again.
...really? After all is said and done, this was the conclusion..?
Yes, shelf the wimpy hydra buff and go for something more extreme. Redesign Zerg AA across the board starting with a tier 1 hydra ffs. Also, fuck locusts give us scourge on the SH, just don't make them free. Opens up room to change the viper, queen, infestor and possibly corruptor (I seem to recall them wanting to make this unit "interesting", still waiting...) as well.
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EPT
