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On January 21 2017 01:17 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +We heard your feedback, and it sounds like majority of you would like to shelf the Hydralisk buff for now. We’ll revisit this discussion if concerns about the unit come up again.
...really? After all is said and done, this was the conclusion..? Yes, shelf the wimpy hydra buff and go for something more extreme. Redesign Zerg AA across the board starting with a tier 1 hydra ffs. Also, fuck locusts give us scourge on the SH, just don't make them free. Opens up room to change the viper, queen, infestor and possibly corruptor (I seem to recall them wanting to make this unit "interesting", still waiting...) as well.
Blizzard isn't willing to invest that much effort into the multiplayer part of the game. Well the competitive part, coop gets more love i think.
I said this half a year ago already, simply don't expect anything anymore (an advise i don't follow myself though  ).
It's a bit disappointing considering that blizzard promised more, but that's how it is. Sc2 won't ever try to actually be "the best game it can be", there either isn't enough incentive for blizzard to test a lot of different things on the ptr, or the current team working on it isn't all that great. Probably a mix of both. I mean they should have done more with the expansions tbh, a lot of wasted time and potential there
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there either isn't enough incentive for blizzard to test a lot of different things on the ptr, or the current team working on it isn't all that great. Probably a mix of both. I mean they should have done more with the expansions tbh, a lot of wasted time and potential there
I mean, pretty much..
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My suggestions for making the game both funnier to play and watch, as well as more balanced.
I have been watching SC2 continously, daily, throughout its history of WoL, HotS and LotV. So even if I do not play it even though I have tried I like to think I have a good grasp on the game.
Something I have seen all through the development of SC2 is that blizzard wants to avoid using too much units from Brood War, instead introducing similar units, maybe even to different races. Often this has not been successful and the original unit would have worked well.
Terran:
1) Liberator is problematic mostly in TvP, low risk, high reward for harass, and in mass sieging up for me breaks balance as well as immersion due to beeing too powerful compared to other units. My ideas would be to remove liberator range since it is not necessary in any way, in addition I would like for the liberator to require tech lab, so it can not be reactored. How would this work in TvZ? Not sure if, but liberators are hardly the only counter to Ultralisks.
2) Slightly improve terran AA to lessen the necessity to rely on marines for this, when liberator are weak, and nerfed as above. Most popular would be to improve Cyclone AA, and/or slightly buff Thor AA again.
3) Would not mind seeing Hellbats buffed slightly, could be a core unit vs light, but beware of early Hellbat timings.
4) Mass Raven is not great watching, not sure how to nerf it, but honestly never liked autoturret, it has no real niche in the game, only for worker harrasment and pathing abuse, just give it defensive matrix instead.
Terran should still be strong without overpowered liberator.
Zerg
1) I think Zerg are in quite a good position, would be fun to see hydras and lurkers more, but buff in this tech path, could make hydras too strong vs Protoss. Hydra buff is more because I want to see this unit used more, rather than it is needed balancewise.
2) Blinding cloud, is a bit too much all or nothing in my opinion, with a nerfed liberator, and maybe slightly buffed hydra, blinding cloud should be nerfed, what about changing it into Dark Swarm!?
3) Swarm hosts, are still not fun, I suggest changing locusts into Scourge, maybe with a small mineralcost for each spawn! Could make for good mech games, Zerg has problems with maxed air armies, in my opinion they can handle ground well. In general, swarm hosts are very fast, making they difficult to catch, maybe reduce their movespeed.
Changes dynamic where units can do the job rather than all or nothing Viper being necessary
Protoss
1) Never liked the mothership core, overcharge is difficult to remove balancewise, my favorite would be to have chrono cost energy again, and beeing more powerful, but overcharge on nexus also costing nexus energy. No mothershipcore needed, has been my suggestion since its introduction....This is not absolutely necessary, cause it wont happen..
2) Carriers seem troublesome, maybe not for pros, but for everybody else... give interceptors a bit higher cost, nobody likes slow games with "free" units.
3) I would like to see the Zealot more, but we have the problem with protoss where early timings would be troublesome with buffed gateway units. Like other have suggested, give a cheap speedupgrade, but with some researchtime, to cyberneticcore and charge (at a lower cost) at twilight council. There are so many counters to Zealots in the game, so they could use a buff like this.
4) Adept, never understood the massive nerf to sight range, why not change it into something reasonable, say 5. And the increase the cooldown for shade. The problem has always been the shading back and forth into zerg mineral lines, where roaches cant keep up.
5) Protoss could use some buff to area attack. Disruptor is in my opinion not fun to watch every game, so please leave as is. Colussus is okey now, still usable, but not dominant. Why not slightly buff storm? High templar are expensive and slow and vulnerable, a buff here, combined with buffed hydra and strong counters in mine, liberator and tank gives the possibility down this path.
A slight buff to Zealots, and storm combined with a nerf to liberator, maybe slight buff to hellbat should be all that is necessary to balance TvP
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On January 20 2017 19:57 LHK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 19:34 hiroshOne wrote:On January 20 2017 17:37 LHK wrote:On January 20 2017 17:34 starslayer wrote:
i say nerf all air units and than work from there. I would really like to see something done about mobility and ignoring terrain, honestly. Love my ground positional play. doesn't do much good to cry about how fast medivacs are as it won't ever change but it's something thats bothered me since hots came out. I think that sc2 went spiral down just after introducing medivack boost. This one decision snowballed into many, many other bad bandaid decisions that ultimately broke the game. After medi boost, they buffed Mutalisks, and because of mutalisks they introduced widomines and so on and on. This one change provoked all this bad design problems changing real strategy game to "kill workers instant and win" game. I have to agree. I find myself playing a ton of Wings of Liberty lately just to go back to a time before all of that was introduced and it's actually really fun. The WOL ladder isnt exactly a high-skill place to be and WOL has its problems but all of that side i've been really enjoying simply trying to get reads on my opponent and responding appropriately. That, to me, is fun. That's starcraft 2. Not "oh, i didn't see this drop coming and now i lose a bunch of workers and am basically out of the game". I know it's a fair bit of nostalgia but I'm not trying to go pro and I want to have fun, and WOL is still heaps of fun to me. I never have to wait long for queues either.
Actually that is a nice idea. I looked over the differences and WoL does not seem half bad (except slow hydra)
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On January 21 2017 02:07 _fool wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 19:57 LHK wrote:On January 20 2017 19:34 hiroshOne wrote:On January 20 2017 17:37 LHK wrote:On January 20 2017 17:34 starslayer wrote:
i say nerf all air units and than work from there. I would really like to see something done about mobility and ignoring terrain, honestly. Love my ground positional play. doesn't do much good to cry about how fast medivacs are as it won't ever change but it's something thats bothered me since hots came out. I think that sc2 went spiral down just after introducing medivack boost. This one decision snowballed into many, many other bad bandaid decisions that ultimately broke the game. After medi boost, they buffed Mutalisks, and because of mutalisks they introduced widomines and so on and on. This one change provoked all this bad design problems changing real strategy game to "kill workers instant and win" game. I have to agree. I find myself playing a ton of Wings of Liberty lately just to go back to a time before all of that was introduced and it's actually really fun. The WOL ladder isnt exactly a high-skill place to be and WOL has its problems but all of that side i've been really enjoying simply trying to get reads on my opponent and responding appropriately. That, to me, is fun. That's starcraft 2. Not "oh, i didn't see this drop coming and now i lose a bunch of workers and am basically out of the game". I know it's a fair bit of nostalgia but I'm not trying to go pro and I want to have fun, and WOL is still heaps of fun to me. I never have to wait long for queues either. Actually that is a nice idea. I looked over the differences and WoL does not seem half bad (except slow hydra)
WOL is a lot of fun still to this day, i recommend everyone play it if you aren't enjoying LOTV. It's a much different game and comes down more to game knowledge and scouting/poking for information and responding as opposed to the way LOTV plays out. I'll probably never stop playing WOL, and if you're a tryhard at the top of the ladder there's actually a few really decent players.
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I'd like to address two units that I think Blizzard should look under the microscope.
The first is swarm hosts. I am not sure if they need any changes, but I do believe they are quite powerful. Their power comes from the safe zone they can attack/harass the enemy. In maps with many blind spots, SH harass is an easy tactic to use, compared to ling runby (simcity can take care of most ling harass), mutas (super fragile to 2 WM hits and a few turrets; have to babysit them), OL drops (vikings), and even nydus worm (maintain vision of your base at all times.
However, ease of use is balanced by deadtime; weaker main army; and vulnerability. These are the main arguments that SH doesn't need changes.
Deadtime is 43 seconds from locust wave to locust wave. 43 seconds is a long time. A lot of SH can die in 43 seconds if you catch them. That's also a lot of dead weight units, making the core army weaker. Each locust must do damage, but the question is can terran prevent the SH dmg?
In another thread, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/518001-community-feedback-update-jan-6-jan-10-update?page=16, Snute answered my question about how many SH does a zerg need to create, what he called, 'snowball effect'. His answer was 15-20 when things get out of hand for terran. I don't like snowball effects, because many times it prevents a reasonable comeback for the opponent.
So I think Blizzard should question the relative ease a zerg can get 15-20 SH. I'd imagine 15 can keep any terran pinned at home if you split the SH into 3 groups of 5. 3 points of harassment is incredibly difficult for a mech terran to deal with. I would argue too difficult. But the zerg shouldn't have much trouble doing it, as long as they have a bllind spot to safely release and retreat.
Snute did mention some counterplay, such as fast banshees can delay a zerg's SH snowball. He didn't say you can prevent a zerg from getting the snowball, but if a terran is going for mech he doesn't have many options to slow down the zerg's 15-20 SH.
Now carriers need to be addressed. That's another unit that causes a snowball effect, but for different purposes. No one would try to use a slow moving airship to harass, but the SH and carriers are designed quite similarly. They are both units that create sub-units to attack for them. Locusts are free but on CD. Interceptors aren't free, but a carrier doesn't have deadtime (except for times when all interceptors are killed.)
Instead of being a harassment unit, the carriers are essentially a siege unit or home defense. Most times they are used in both positions, usually defense first to keep the snowball carriers growing, and siege once a sufficient number is needed to push out.
Previous versions of SC2 put the carriers as an unviable unit. Design wise, Protoss could never achieve the number of carriers necessary to get a snowball going before they died. And the cost of interceptors made them more prohibitive.
But now we're at a version of SC2 where protoss can get enough carriers, and interceptors are dirt cheap. This combination gave protoss a unit that can be built and is sustainable.
I think Blizzard should increase the cost of interceptors. This will put a clock on a protoss to use the carriers. At interceptors current price, 10 mineral, the carriers aren't a huge mineral sink. This gives protoss more time to siege an opponent without fear of going mineral broke. Interceptors at the previous cost, 25 mineral, made cost very prohibitive. A fleet of carriers can very quickly put a protoss on welfare.
There is wiggle room. I think a test of 15 and 20 mineral for interceptors should be tried.
Units that spawn other units are difficult to balance. They easily become a binary design, nigh unstoppable or completely unviable, and there isn't much wiggle room to create a balanced unit. Both SH and Carriers have been difficult for Blizzard to balance, but I think they designed inherent weakness in both units. Is the weakness enough to balance them? That must be answered.
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So where is that huge redesign patch? I am waiting since last year and Zerg play did not change at all...
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On January 20 2017 21:44 Phaenoman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 21:38 SSMMA wrote:
Don't you remember the roc period where every Terran went for 1 base 1-1-1 cloacked banshees marines and tanks and totally destroyed protoss for some weeks or months. Though protoss found a way to deal with it (without any buff) and made this strategy pretty useless. I am not sure, but didn't the immortal receive a range buff for this very issue? I might be wrong.
This is correct, Protoss did never really figure out how to beat it so they upped Immortal range to 6.
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On January 20 2017 08:59 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 08:51 FFW_Rude wrote:On January 20 2017 05:25 TentativePanda wrote:
They neverrrr help zerg. Doesn't matter that carriers have no counter (even in PvP!)? Doesn't matter that TvZ is still favored for terran?
Here are a few of my balance fixing options that I don't think I've heard very often (besides what I have to say about carriers):
Carrier: Make interceptors 5 more minerals (again) and/or remove release interceptor ability
Liberator: Fucking do something finally! This unit takes 3 clicks from a terran player to shutdown mineral lines, they dont even have to look at it. Just queue its position. It also is absolutely incredible at zoning. My suggestion is to make it a tad less beefy because it takes way too many queen/stalker/pheonix shots to kill them and/or slightly reduce the "freedom zone" size.
And here is my big one (something to consider): Terran have been benefitting from imba medivacs since they got the speed boost. I see zergs/terrans/protosses spot the medivac before it even gets to its destination and still dont have time to defend because the boost is basically blink for medivacs. I suggest removing this ability entirely. I would even be fine with giving the medivac a VERY slight natural speed boost as compensation. P.S I also think medivacs heal waaaay too fast, but I'll fight my battles one at a time haha. Wait.... The release intereceptor ability is back ? It's not back. The current Carrier is identical to the WoL/HotS Carrier other than Interceptor cost being reduced from 25 to 10 and Carrier health being reduced from 300 to 250. Reverting the Interceptor cost buff without adding another counteracting buff will make the Carrier worse than it has ever been, and it was pretty dang useless before.
And they have a leash range which they didn't have in WoL and hots,
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On January 20 2017 11:20 SirPinky wrote:
CAN A PATCH BE OUT LONGER THAN 5 WEEKS BEFORE THERE IS A NERF??? Why does this always happen with Terran and not other races. Terran's are asked to "deal" with things like BL/Infestor, 8 armor ultra, swarm hosts, mass adepts, blink stalker all-ins - FOR MONTHS (in some cases entire expansions). Then one patch comes out, with very little data, then it's "Yup, we need to nerf Terran."
Do you people realize WM's have not been changed for YEARS? Liberator has been nerfed TWICE into oblivion and no longer counter any anti-air? Tankivacs were removed, so the balance was offset by a stronger tank. We haven't even seen a new map pool since this patch went live!
Why is there not talk about the cost of SH being the cost of a Maurader? Or Carriers dominating late game with inteceptors essentially being free? Deal with it kids. You sound like whiney brats; in which some people posting sound like they have not even played the game in months.
This is a very accurate post.
We've seen throughout the history of the game the other races get the most absurd things like perma cloak infestors, and swarmhost locusts that now fly into your base and run at lightspeed.
But Terran has to "adapt" to these things and win with superior skill and the top koreans somehow manage it.
But Protoss/Zerg never adapt to anything whatsoever. 1 week after changes they are spoon fed ridiculous buffs, and another round of 1000's of players quit SC2.
I know that sounds bad...but it's what's happened throughout the majority of the game's lifespan. Sad people still don't realize it yet.
Another point for this thread...i honestly think we should hi-jack this thread from the devs and just make this discussion about Swarmhosts/Carriers since the developers don't want to have any reasonable discussion about balance anymore and they've made that very clear.
Let's start talking about swarmhost and carrier balance which is impacting the game 100000x more than tanks and mines ever have lmao. A lot of people that are rational in this thread have already brought up these absurd units.
They definitely need changes, swarmhosts in particular are too strong versus both Protoss and Terran mech, maybe even in ZvZ mid/late game they are a bit worrisome. The unit just doesn't belong in the game honestly because it produces free units that don't even have an energy cost. The unit also is priced too cheaply.
As for carriers, i've played and seen games on ladder and pro level where the Protoss builds 2-3 stargate carrier, and essentially collects an autowin versus Zerg because there's no longer any counter play to the unit. Previously you could opt to go for the interceptors instead of suiciding onto the carriers.
With the interceptor change, you have no option - you must suicide onto the carriers themselves. Which then becomes theoretically and practically impossible due to archon splash and psi storm with the carriers.
These two units need to be looked at by the developers ASAP, along with mech anti-air problems.
Let's get the discussion trending on actual balance issues, rather than community fabricated ones on how to nerf Terran over and over.
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On January 21 2017 02:25 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:I'd like to address two units that I think Blizzard should look under the microscope. The first is swarm hosts. I am not sure if they need any changes, but I do believe they are quite powerful. Their power comes from the safe zone they can attack/harass the enemy. In maps with many blind spots, SH harass is an easy tactic to use, compared to ling runby (simcity can take care of most ling harass), mutas (super fragile to 2 WM hits and a few turrets; have to babysit them), OL drops (vikings), and even nydus worm (maintain vision of your base at all times. However, ease of use is balanced by deadtime; weaker main army; and vulnerability. These are the main arguments that SH doesn't need changes. Deadtime is 43 seconds from locust wave to locust wave. 43 seconds is a long time. A lot of SH can die in 43 seconds if you catch them. That's also a lot of dead weight units, making the core army weaker. Each locust must do damage, but the question is can terran prevent the SH dmg? In another thread, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/518001-community-feedback-update-jan-6-jan-10-update?page=16, Snute answered my question about how many SH does a zerg need to create, what he called, 'snowball effect'. His answer was 15-20 when things get out of hand for terran. I don't like snowball effects, because many times it prevents a reasonable comeback for the opponent. So I think Blizzard should question the relative ease a zerg can get 15-20 SH. I'd imagine 15 can keep any terran pinned at home if you split the SH into 3 groups of 5. 3 points of harassment is incredibly difficult for a mech terran to deal with. I would argue too difficult. But the zerg shouldn't have much trouble doing it, as long as they have a bllind spot to safely release and retreat. Snute did mention some counterplay, such as fast banshees can delay a zerg's SH snowball. He didn't say you can prevent a zerg from getting the snowball, but if a terran is going for mech he doesn't have many options to slow down the zerg's 15-20 SH. Now carriers need to be addressed. That's another unit that causes a snowball effect, but for different purposes. No one would try to use a slow moving airship to harass, but the SH and carriers are designed quite similarly. They are both units that create sub-units to attack for them. Locusts are free but on CD. Interceptors aren't free, but a carrier doesn't have deadtime (except for times when all interceptors are killed.) Instead of being a harassment unit, the carriers are essentially a siege unit or home defense. Most times they are used in both positions, usually defense first to keep the snowball carriers growing, and siege once a sufficient number is needed to push out. Previous versions of SC2 put the carriers as an unviable unit. Design wise, Protoss could never achieve the number of carriers necessary to get a snowball going before they died. And the cost of interceptors made them more prohibitive. But now we're at a version of SC2 where protoss can get enough carriers, and interceptors are dirt cheap. This combination gave protoss a unit that can be built and is sustainable. I think Blizzard should increase the cost of interceptors. This will put a clock on a protoss to use the carriers. At interceptors current price, 10 mineral, the carriers aren't a huge mineral sink. This gives protoss more time to siege an opponent without fear of going mineral broke. Interceptors at the previous cost, 25 mineral, made cost very prohibitive. A fleet of carriers can very quickly put a protoss on welfare. There is wiggle room. I think a test of 15 and 20 mineral for interceptors should be tried. Units that spawn other units are difficult to balance. They easily become a binary design, nigh unstoppable or completely unviable, and there isn't much wiggle room to create a balanced unit. Both SH and Carriers have been difficult for Blizzard to balance, but I think they designed inherent weakness in both units. Is the weakness enough to balance them? That must be answered.
I feel like you bring up a lot of good points - things that do need to be addressed, and how difficult it is to balance them.
I feel like SH can be in a situation where they're perhaps made a little more fragile than they already are, or give them a slightly slower off-creep speed or something to help counteract people running around the corner of a map, launching a bunch of locusts, and then bee-lining it back to their base.
Carriers, likewise, could probably use an extremely minor tweak. I feel the main issues with TvP right now is that the P doesn't have enough options to be able to deal with the myriad of openings that a T can do, and as a result, turtle up to carriers as a last resort.
I for one am interested to see how the new maps play out, and would like to see less dead space back behind each base for things like liberators to fly out and siege up in, but we'll see.
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On January 21 2017 04:38 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 11:20 SirPinky wrote:
CAN A PATCH BE OUT LONGER THAN 5 WEEKS BEFORE THERE IS A NERF??? Why does this always happen with Terran and not other races. Terran's are asked to "deal" with things like BL/Infestor, 8 armor ultra, swarm hosts, mass adepts, blink stalker all-ins - FOR MONTHS (in some cases entire expansions). Then one patch comes out, with very little data, then it's "Yup, we need to nerf Terran."
Do you people realize WM's have not been changed for YEARS? Liberator has been nerfed TWICE into oblivion and no longer counter any anti-air? Tankivacs were removed, so the balance was offset by a stronger tank. We haven't even seen a new map pool since this patch went live!
Why is there not talk about the cost of SH being the cost of a Maurader? Or Carriers dominating late game with inteceptors essentially being free? Deal with it kids. You sound like whiney brats; in which some people posting sound like they have not even played the game in months. This is a very accurate post. We've seen throughout the history of the game the other races get the most absurd things like perma cloak infestors, and swarmhost locusts that now fly into your base and run at lightspeed. But Terran has to "adapt" to these things and win with superior skill and the top koreans somehow manage it. But Protoss/Zerg never adapt to anything whatsoever. 1 week after changes they are spoon fed ridiculous buffs, and another round of 1000's of players quit SC2. I know that sounds bad...but it's what's happened throughout the majority of the game's lifespan. Sad people still don't realize it yet. Another point for this thread...i honestly think we should hi-jack this thread from the devs and just make this discussion about Swarmhosts/Carriers since the developers don't want to have any reasonable discussion about balance anymore and they've made that very clear. Let's start talking about swarmhost and carrier balance which is impacting the game 100000x more than tanks and mines ever have lmao. A lot of people that are rational in this thread have already brought up these absurd units. They definitely need changes, swarmhosts in particular are too strong versus both Protoss and Terran mech, maybe even in ZvZ mid/late game they are a bit worrisome. The unit just doesn't belong in the game honestly because it produces free units that don't even have an energy cost. The unit also is priced too cheaply. As for carriers, i've played and seen games on ladder and pro level where the Protoss builds 2-3 stargate carrier, and essentially collects an autowin versus Zerg because there's no longer any counter play to the unit. Previously you could opt to go for the interceptors instead of suiciding onto the carriers. With the interceptor change, you have no option - you must suicide onto the carriers themselves. Which then becomes theoretically and practically impossible due to archon splash and psi storm with the carriers. These two units need to be looked at by the developers ASAP, along with mech anti-air problems. Let's get the discussion trending on actual balance issues, rather than community fabricated ones on how to nerf Terran over and over.
U're so fucking full of shit...Zerg doesn't adapt? Zerg race is designed to adapt you fool. We adapted to every freaking shit that Blizzard threw at us with hands of Terran. Medivak boost, widomines, hellbats, mech. But sometimes they manage to give Terran so OP shit that adapting is not possible. And You...You of all Terrans are talking aboit adapting???TThat's jist hilarious. When did u adapt to anything???
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Avilo I agree that Blizzard should start looking at SH and Carriers, but your hyperbole explanations are way too extreme. And no need to use your aggressive tone (hi-jack this thread, spoon fed ridiculous buffs, etc.)
We can just calmly start discussing those units on any developer update thread, without resorting too aggressive and accusing tone. Just because Blizzard addresses one unit, doesn't mean they turn their backs on other units. You are making assumptions that aren't there.
I don't think Carriers and SH have more impact than tanks or mines. I think they just affect the game state very differently. However, I don't think tanks or mines creates a snowball effect, but carriers and SH are almost designed to be a snowball unit. These types of units can be balanced, but it's a question of how easy can a zerg or protoss reach a snowball of considerable threat, and is the snowball stoppable.
In my previous post I said I don't like the snowball effect. That doesn't mean it can't be implemented, but it does mean the snowball of a single unit needs to have a weakness that is exploitable by the opponent.
These are areas we should focus on about the SH and carrier.
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Lets have a closer look at these solid games Mr. Kim. For example let us take top 5 players of each race and see how they performed against each other in tournaments since the patch in late November, should be fairly balanced since these should be players on similar skill levels. Taking players and results from Aligulac we would have
Terrans: Maru, Innovation, Byun, TY, uThermal
Protoss: Showtime, Stats, Sos, Neeb, herO.
Zerg: Nerchio, Dark, Solar, Byul, Snute.
What have we been looking at in TvP.... map score 43-24 (over 64% Terran win rate)
lets see TvZ that must be balanced well, doesn't it.... map score 61-42 (over 59% Terran win rate)
PvZ map score 19-16 (over 54% Protoss win rate) - now guess why they played so little games between each other lol.
The state of the game is solid and fantastic. Apply changes next year.
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On January 20 2017 05:01 avilo wrote:
I really just wanna write my post as a one liner and write: "the developers don't play their own game anymore."
But i guess i'll just elaborate as usual and write the same post i have for over 1+ yr now of problems that have not been addressed with the game and the latest problems / balance issues that aren't addressed:
-carriers too strong, interceptor cost needs revert
-3 rax reaper coinflip is still in the game for some reason
-invulnerable nydus worm still in the game
-new swarmhost is ridiculously broken versus both protoss and mech
-infestor burrow cast is perma cloak....that needs to be reverted
-baneling buff way over the top, unneeded
-BC teleport cooldown way too low
-tempest still an oppressive lategame unit vs all races
-warp prism pick-up range is still too much
Those are issues that need looking at. The priority being swarmhosts and carriers.
It's absurd to me that the update jay wilson I MEAN david kim just put out says nothing about addressing swarmhosts, and then in the same post wants to simultaneously nerf TWO MECH UNITS ROFL.
Mech was made near unplayable on patch 3.8 because of swarmhost/carrier. Now they wanna nerf tanks and mines for no reason? Disgusting.
your suggestions make sense overall, but im fairly certain that nerfing swarmhost would make mech OP. good players playing mech would be too powerfull (blinding cloud nerf was huge)
and baneling buff was +5 hp only; it made bio more balanced
maybe if zerg wasn't hopeless vs sky terran or liberator ghost ( as well as sky protoss by the way), then perhaps a swarmhost nerf would make the game better overall.
the question is...how do you make the interaction between sky armies fun to play? It's been cancer since WOL. It seems very difficult to make enjoyable.
carriers/3 rax reaper/ warp prism pickup range/ burrow infestors are all things that need a nerf to adress balance.
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On January 21 2017 04:38 avilo wrote:
But Protoss/Zerg never adapt to anything whatsoever. 1 week after changes they are spoon fed ridiculous buffs, and another round of 1000's of players quit SC2.
Seriously, coming from the guy who decide against all odd he wants to play mech ? You playing mech to adapt to the playstyle of the other ?
As zerg,i've never started the game thinking : "Well i'd like to do this, so i do this", i'm just forced to play what i must do, oh the T want's to play the boring mech style, i'm forced to play the anti-mech way while i wanted to play LBM...
Terran is the race with the initiative, it's just your playstyle where your turtle at home and let the other do what he wants.
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But if nerfing SH makes mech OP, then perhaps look at something else for zerg?
What about burrowed roaches, there must be some potential here, right? ON top of my head (A FUCKING EXAMPLE ONLY), it can reduce then ext shoot that do 50+ in damage. Like the old immortal.
And maybe redesign SH completely.
AN EXAMPLE AGAIN: When burrowed it needs to stay burrowed for a long time. Perhaps add some very powerful siege ability(like spawns banelings once every 5th second so you really need to go there with your units.
COuld add some interesting shit.. AGAIN JUST EXAMPLES.
My point is, dont just write one liners like there is no tomorrow, eihter you discuss or you dont respond. There are possiblities around here, huge possibilities.
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On January 20 2017 23:28 SCHWARZENEGGER wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2017 23:14 Tosster wrote:
We’ve been seeing more discussion regarding PvT. Our current position on this matchup is that we aren’t seeing a specific problem that needs to be fixed.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OsaR7XC.png) when it will be at least few hundreds games in tvp then we can talk.
What about removing Innovation TvP games from the sample ?
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Please, nerf overloard speed.
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TERRAN
Reaper: grenades no longer deal damage OR unit redesign
Medivac: healing nerf (increase energy cost or decrease heal speed) OR speed movement nerf (reduce boost acceleration or boost now requires energy )
Liberator: require tech lab
ZERG
SH: Increase cost OR unit redesign
Hydralisk: Hp upgrade
PROTOSS
-Carrier: Increase interceptor cost
-Void Ray: Increase prismatic alignment cooldown
-Colossus: Increase damage
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EPT
