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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On January 20 2017 08:51 FFW_Rude wrote: Wait.... The release intereceptor ability is back ? It's not back. The current Carrier is identical to the WoL/HotS Carrier other than Interceptor cost being reduced from 25 to 10 and Carrier health being reduced from 300 to 250. Reverting the Interceptor cost buff without adding another counteracting buff will make the Carrier worse than it has ever been, and it was pretty dang useless before. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16788 Posts
so if you must nerf Terran please make it an air unit that you nerf. if you must buff Terran please make it a ground unit. now that the Tank is finally strong please do not nerf it. Nerf anything in the air or even some other ground unit, but please do not nerf the Tank. | ||
Liquid`Snute
Norway839 Posts
On January 20 2017 08:59 eviltomahawk wrote: It's not back. The current Carrier is identical to the WoL/HotS Carrier other than Interceptor cost being reduced from 25 to 10 and Carrier health being reduced from 300 to 250. Reverting the Interceptor cost buff without adding another counteracting buff will make the Carrier worse than it has ever been, and it was pretty dang useless before. also don't forget that the primary reason carriers were useless before (vs zerg) was the old swarmhost. without templar support and the ease for zerg to get static defense, carriers were useless compared to their superior tempest counterpart. we might have seen some carriers towards the end of heart of the swarm, had not 200/200 protoss with tempest been the superior alternative that fit better into the standard game flow framework. | ||
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PtitDrogo
France163 Posts
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DeadByDawn
United Kingdom476 Posts
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reneg
United States859 Posts
On January 20 2017 08:03 WeddingEpisode wrote: Does anyone else wonder at this point if maps are not a more central issue? Yes. It feels like a lot of the maps were not fully ready for lotv, and so I'm hopeful that the new maps might be able to do SOMEthing. But we'll see I guess, since nothing else is happening in the immediate future | ||
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Mahanaim
Korea (South)1002 Posts
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xTJx
Brazil419 Posts
Btw, people wanted hydralisks to counter interceptors better, not leave the unit as it is. All you needed to do was adding a extra +1 armor upgrade for hydras or some shit. But i guess the children from balance team got mad we didn't like their idea and will give us nothing. | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
On January 20 2017 09:52 reneg wrote: Yes. It feels like a lot of the maps were not fully ready for lotv, and so I'm hopeful that the new maps might be able to do SOMEthing. But we'll see I guess, since nothing else is happening in the immediate future Agree, maps like echo had a lot of dead air space (and Echo is one of many), something which made libs and skytoss stronger (may be skyterran as well). On this map pool I had many issues with libs even though they were nerfed compared to the pre-patch. I guess thats why there is no hurry with balance at the moment, as it won't give that much info. The win ratios on these maps wouldn't have been similar to that with the maps of the previous pool (with the current version). I hope many of these issues will be solved with the following map pool. | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On January 20 2017 10:14 bulya wrote: Agree, maps like echo had a lot of dead air space (and Echo is one of many), something which made libs and skytoss stronger (may be skyterran as well). On this map pool I had many issues with libs even though they were nerfed compared to the pre-patch. I guess thats why there is no hurry with balance at the moment, as it won't give that much info. The win ratios on these maps wouldn't have been similar to that with the maps of the previous pool (with the current version). I hope many of these issues will be solved with the following map pool. The maps definitely make Raven mineral line harassment a lot more viable than it would be on a more normal map pool where you can't just fly them in and out with little chance of losing them except to air units. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
DON'T YOU FUCKING DARE NERF THE SIEGE TANK AGAIN | ||
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SirPinky
United States525 Posts
Do you people realize WM's have not been changed for YEARS? Liberator has been nerfed TWICE into oblivion and no longer counter any anti-air? Tankivacs were removed, so the balance was offset by a stronger tank. We haven't even seen a new map pool since this patch went live! Why is there not talk about the cost of SH being the cost of a Maurader? Or Carriers dominating late game with inteceptors essentially being free? Deal with it kids. You sound like whiney brats; in which some people posting sound like they have not even played the game in months. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On January 20 2017 09:44 PtitDrogo wrote: I'll disagree with you here on a tiny point, with 25 mineral interceptor in a split map scenario fungal + wall of spores dealt with carrier just fine. But do we really want that to be the way to beat carriers? How boring is that? For Zergs to have to sit on their asses with spores + fungal. Yeah it deals with it, but is it really how we want it to be dealt with? Anything that requires a specific race to turtle with static D + units to beat an army composition needs to be changed or that leads to boring games. | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
So it looks like as protoss it is mainly surviving the early game, getting to the mid game, either winning there somehow surviving till the late game while terran have even more tools to harass in the early game now. I'm a zerg player, so I'm not biased when it comes to PvT, and I offrace with both. I didn't see pro games getting to the late game in PvT lately. A change which will effect only PvT games without interfering with TvZ and PvZ is a widow mine change which will nerf its splash bonus to shield. So either the new map pool will show us that PvT is playable for protoss, or some change will have to be made. Regarding the timing, hydras were already nerfed, carriers as well, the terran nerf is still considered (even though a nerf was actually reverted with the cyclone having its full range from the get go without an upgrade). So I don't see anything wrong with the timing. I guess the only problem is the change of the map pool, and both changes can't be done together as it will not show us the real consequences of the balance change. Thus, either protoss will find it easier in PvT on the new map pool or a change will be necessary. | ||
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Ignorant prodigy
United States385 Posts
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
Community balancing the game seems good. | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On January 20 2017 11:20 SirPinky wrote: CAN A PATCH BE OUT LONGER THAN 5 WEEKS BEFORE THERE IS A NERF??? Why does this always happen with Terran and not other races. Terran's are asked to "deal" with things like BL/Infestor, 8 armor ultra, swarm hosts, mass adepts, blink stalker all-ins - FOR MONTHS (in some cases entire expansions). Then one patch comes out, with very little data, then it's "Yup, we need to nerf Terran." Do you people realize WM's have not been changed for YEARS? Liberator has been nerfed TWICE into oblivion and no longer counter any anti-air? Tankivacs were removed, so the balance was offset by a stronger tank. We haven't even seen a new map pool since this patch went live! I can speak for the Protoss issues for Terran. The widow mine was buffed late July 2014, which was after Terran had started to win again against Protoss through Protoss nerfs and maps that were not good for blink all ins. Actually, fun fact, Terran and Protoss both had the same number of mirror finals and a very similar number of premier tournament wins in 2014. If the first half was the blink era, then the second half was certainly the widowmine era. It took Protoss many months to fully deal with widowmines. (Though, it did culminate in Protoss in late 2015 completely shutting down widowmine drops) And despite aligulac's flaws, there has been no recent period in LotV or HotS where Terran has had a matchup at a 40% winrate. In recent history, there have been two times where Protoss had around a 40% winrate (admittedly one of those times was when LotV launched, but that still counts). Also, it's been almost two months since the patch went live, and we've seen quite a few games since then. This has actually happened a number of times with Protoss and Zerg, where they were asked to "deal with it." I can mainly speak to Protoss in that respect, but both the widowmine, the liberator, and the marauder (to a cetain degree) were all things that they had to "get used to." | ||
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