EPTLilbow and his Approach to WCS Finals 2015 - Page 20
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Ludwigvan
Germany2364 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12128 Posts
On November 03 2015 20:07 NarutO wrote: People need to stop hating on Lilbow. It was the perfect decision as a professional to go and prepare the switch from HOTS to LOTV since his chances in winning against Life even with preperation are just okay. It gets him a Ro8 at Global Finals which obviously is an amazing success to him or any foreign player but so is being in the top 16 overall as well. It also grants him 2500$ more prize money. He can easily achieve 2500$ when he is starting off Legacy in a really good shape as well as a chance to potentially win Dreamhack and if qualified for HSC even that event. A professional should always consider doing what gives him the most benefit in his career and it wasnt certainly not going all out practice to prepare vs Life. For League of Legends check out the Worlds - even a team in the worlds could have prepared patch 5.21 instead of 5.18 if they have little to no chance to even make it out of the groups. I can understand and relate people didnt like it - Lilbow didnt play well, but Life also didnt put him in any basic situation where he could have showed his mid or lategame strategies. And for people saying Lilbow could have skipped to play at all then: He fucking earned the spot - the only foreigner to earn it - why would he give it up? And how do these teams say this to the public? Do they use the "I don't give a shit about fans or people around here" attitude or do they communicate a little bit more seriously? | ||
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On November 03 2015 20:44 Ludwigvan wrote: If he really didn't care, he should have given Hyun the spot. and give up 5000 $? | ||
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ThunderBum
Australia192 Posts
I wouldn't blame Blizzard for not inviting him back again. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15867 Posts
On November 03 2015 20:07 NarutO wrote: People need to stop hating on Lilbow. It was the perfect decision as a professional to go and prepare the switch from HOTS to LOTV since his chances in winning against Life even with preperation are just okay. It gets him a Ro8 at Global Finals which obviously is an amazing success to him or any foreign player but so is being in the top 16 overall as well. It also grants him 2500$ more prize money. He can easily achieve 2500$ when he is starting off Legacy in a really good shape as well as a chance to potentially win Dreamhack and if qualified for HSC even that event. A professional should always consider doing what gives him the most benefit in his career and it wasnt certainly not going all out practice to prepare vs Life. For League of Legends check out the Worlds - even a team in the worlds could have prepared patch 5.21 instead of 5.18 if they have little to no chance to even make it out of the groups. I can understand and relate people didnt like it - Lilbow didnt play well, but Life also didnt put him in any basic situation where he could have showed his mid or lategame strategies. And for people saying Lilbow could have skipped to play at all then: He fucking earned the spot - the only foreigner to earn it - why would he give it up? from a logical standpoint his decision makes sense but as a progamer you owe something to the fans and the tournament organizers. If he had maybe practiced HotS and LotV 50-50 or 60-40 I would have understood him but not practicing at all gives the feeling he doesn't care. Doesn't care about the tournament, his fans, the whole esports scene. Of course he's still young and probably didn't know what it means but he has still done a huge mistake. Maybe if he performs well and shows great sportmanship in the future he can redeem himself but right now he deserves the shitstorm. | ||
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On November 03 2015 21:04 Charoisaur wrote: from a logical standpoint his decision makes sense but as a progamer you owe something to the fans and the tournament organizers. If he had maybe practiced HotS and LotV 50-50 or 60-40 I would have understood him but not practicing at all gives the feeling he doesn't care. Doesn't care about the tournament, his fans, the whole esports scene. Of course he's still young and probably didn't know what it means but he has still done a huge mistake. Maybe if he performs well and shows great sportmanship in the future he can redeem himself but right now he deserves the shitstorm. I don't think he deserves the shitstorm. Criticism, yes but the whole thing is blown way out of proportion. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23570 Posts
On November 03 2015 21:04 Charoisaur wrote: from a logical standpoint his decision makes sense but as a progamer you owe something to the fans and the tournament organizers. If he had maybe practiced HotS and LotV 50-50 or 60-40 I would have understood him but not practicing at all gives the feeling he doesn't care. Doesn't care about the tournament, his fans, the whole esports scene. Of course he's still young and probably didn't know what it means but he has still done a huge mistake. Maybe if he performs well and shows great sportmanship in the future he can redeem himself but right now he deserves the shitstorm. Usually I would agree with you, but seeing how the circumstanes almost did not allow him to practice and LotV tournaments are already announced, he did the right thing. Nobody in EU playing HotS, Koreans not willing to help him, it was a tough situation. So he prepared for Life as good as he could, but put his main focus on LotV (which already paid off by qualifying for DH Winter). Sadly he didn't get to show anything he prepared vs Life and got crushed too fast, so now it looks like he didn't try at all. The games might've looked the same even if he had practiced 100% HotS, Life just has a way to make foreigners look really bad. His only mistake were the tweets directly afterwards, in my opinion. He exaggerated, to make the loss feel less bad, but people got the wrong impression. | ||
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Penev
28440 Posts
On November 03 2015 21:04 Charoisaur wrote: from a logical standpoint his decision makes sense but as a progamer you owe something to the fans and the tournament organizers. If he had maybe practiced HotS and LotV 50-50 or 60-40 I would have understood him but not practicing at all gives the feeling he doesn't care. Doesn't care about the tournament, his fans, the whole esports scene. Of course he's still young and probably didn't know what it means but he has still done a huge mistake. Maybe if he performs well and shows great sportmanship in the future he can redeem himself but right now he deserves the shitstorm. He owed it to himself too. He might never get this chance again. It sucked for him he made it to the finals just before a new expansion gets out (practicing wise) but not making the best of it might haunt him for a long time and not just because of the subsequent shitstorm caused by his "clumsy" tweets. He didn't try (hard enough). Life has proven not to be unbeatable, Inno can be beaten (well, maybe not at the moment  ) as well. Maybe a lucky PvP after that? Who knows? Not Lilbow.Yes this scenario is very unlikely but to not have even tried.. It would haunt me but I'm not him I guess. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43762 Posts
On November 03 2015 20:44 Ludwigvan wrote: If he really didn't care, he should have given Hyun the spot. The issue with that is that he was guaranteed money, so it was to his benefit (financially) to show up even if it was to basically dick around... if he wasn't getting money for simply showing up, then I definitely think he should have deferred to HyuN or whoever was next, since you know they'd take the tournament seriously. But that's not the case. | ||
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Zerg.Zilla
Hungary5029 Posts
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Penev
28440 Posts
On November 03 2015 21:21 Zerg.Zilla wrote: Life unleashes blitzkrieg,and Lilbow surrenders. He even avoided the Maginot line. | ||
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Muffloe
Sweden6061 Posts
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cheekymonkey
France1387 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
On November 03 2015 21:44 Muffloe wrote: Haven't followed this really, but this sounds way worse than Naniwa, who basically was forced to go(iirc, it's been awhile) Nah, just the fallout is worse. As with professional tennis, it is considered incredibly rude to chalk up a loss to lack of practice or playing poorly rather than simply congratulating the opponent for playing well, doubly so if you start the excuses before the match is even played. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: "1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament" Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him? That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. | ||
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ddayzy
259 Posts
On November 03 2015 21:12 Musicus wrote: Usually I would agree with you, but seeing how the circumstanes almost did not allow him to practice and LotV tournaments are already announced, he did the right thing. Nobody in EU playing HotS, Koreans not willing to help him, it was a tough situation. So he prepared for Life as good as he could, but put his main focus on LotV (which already paid off by qualifying for DH Winter). Sadly he didn't get to show anything he prepared vs Life and got crushed too fast, so now it looks like he didn't try at all. The games might've looked the same even if he had practiced 100% HotS, Life just has a way to make foreigners look really bad. His only mistake were the tweets directly afterwards, in my opinion. He exaggerated, to make the loss feel less bad, but people got the wrong impression. This is a complete lie, TLO tweeted that there were people willing to help him and he declined. I also know that several top GMs from EU were willing to practice with him. The cheeses Life did are not good against Protoss if you have the slightest idea your oponent might do something like that, which Lillbow would have known if he had botherd watching 3 vods from Lifes games. People defending the representative of foreign Starcraft showing to the world that we are bad, don't practice and don't care is beyond sad. Just to poke hole at some of the arguments for why he did it: He coulden't get practice - As allready stated this is not true. He could, he choose not to. He doesn't owe us anything - Yes he does, we are the ones making him relevant and paying his salary by watching him. Like competators in real sports are so fond of saying - they owe everything to the fans. Being so fucking arrogant that you think you don't owe the people making you relevant something is beyond rediculus. Without viewers Lillbow is a unemployed kid playing video games all day in his parents hous. He can do whatever he want's - Yes, yes he can and what he chose to do was show the middlefinger to every player working hard and dreaming about getting that spot. There are so many people out there who would practice their heart out for that spot. How should they feel after seeing how disrespectful the one taking their spot on a pity quota of foreigners coulden't be botherd to try? He deserved it - No he didn't, if he had to qualify in Korea he would never have gotten to Blizzcon. He got in because Blizzard want's to give the foreign fans a hope they can cheer for. He broke that entire system by not only playing badly but stating to the world he don't care and didn't bother to try. So why should a foreigner now get a spot over a hardworking and simply better korean player? We did show to the world that we have nothing to contribute with on the big stage and that WCS truly is a pitty league. LotV - Blizzcon is not a random online tournament with a few hundred viewers, it is the biggest stage Starcraft gets put on all year. You are showing of Starcraft to many people watching it for the first time. You are representing the entire foreign scene to all those people. You do have a responsibility and if your excuse is "Sorry wanted to get to number five on a beta ladder" it is the equivilent of a football player stating that he did not pratice for the World Cup final because he and his mates were bussy playing basketball in the park for the last months. If you can't succeed in LotV because you took a month to practice the biggest tournament of the year you were never good enough to succeed in LotV to begin with. | ||
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ddayzy
259 Posts
On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote: Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. | ||
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
Remember: he didn't have to show his working out here. He could have just said "That's Life - see you in LotV" and nobody would have batted an eyelid. But no - he was butthurt at getting 3-0'd by zerglings and had to offer up a public excuse. The only question remaining is: did he ultimately make the right call by signing up for that shitstorm? We will only know when his LotV results start coming in. If he's winning tournaments then the gamble pays off. Fans will praise his judgement, his value will go up, viewership will be bolstered and everyone wins. If he nabs an early deep run and then disappears, or fails to make a mark entirely, he'll be a symbol of foreign failure: can't even win by stealing a march on the Koreans honourably striving to make the last big game of HotS a worthy spectacle. All he's done by making his thinking public is raise the stakes. So no pressure. | ||
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Weird
United States832 Posts
On November 03 2015 20:07 NarutO wrote: People need to stop hating on Lilbow. It was the perfect decision as a professional to go and prepare the switch from HOTS to LOTV since his chances in winning against Life even with preperation are just okay. It gets him a Ro8 at Global Finals which obviously is an amazing success to him or any foreign player but so is being in the top 16 overall as well. It also grants him 2500$ more prize money. He can easily achieve 2500$ when he is starting off Legacy in a really good shape as well as a chance to potentially win Dreamhack and if qualified for HSC even that event. A professional should always consider doing what gives him the most benefit in his career and it wasnt certainly not going all out practice to prepare vs Life. For League of Legends check out the Worlds - even a team in the worlds could have prepared patch 5.21 instead of 5.18 if they have little to no chance to even make it out of the groups. I can understand and relate people didnt like it - Lilbow didnt play well, but Life also didnt put him in any basic situation where he could have showed his mid or lategame strategies. And for people saying Lilbow could have skipped to play at all then: He fucking earned the spot - the only foreigner to earn it - why would he give it up? LOL I bet Polt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP wouldn't have quit like a bitch/wasted our time, the caster's time, the organizer's time would they? (Maybe MKP for the right price?) Get your head out of your ass. User was warned for this post | ||
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