|
Ahhh TLO and all the hate train on this thread, so prompt to judge people.
I don't blame Lilbow. He just did a PR mistake, but his choice is understandable.
You have Life in Ro16 and most likely Innovation in Ro8. You're in bad conditions to train properly, while they're in teams and whatnot. Would you REALLY throw all you have knowing it's pointless?
Dario, it's easy to say "You have a shitty mentality bla bla, foreigner too bad bla bla, gotta win now bla bla". At some point, you gotta look at the facts. You have games ahead that are hugely not in your favor. AND, it's even harder for you to train enough to "equalize" the odds. Considering all that, may as well accept it and move on.
If he would have said during the interview the usual bullshit : "I'm gonna try my best to put on a good show", even without training at all, everybody would have blamed Life for cheesing and this stupid shitstorm would never have happenned.
Guys, give him a break. Last time I checked, he won his ticket to get there and he doesn't owe you shit. He just made a PR mistake. You feel sad he got crushed ? Sure, me too. But that how it his and we can't blame him for that. I'm pretty sure he will learn from this mistake.
|
Lilbow just a standard protoss player :~)
|
On November 03 2015 19:29 JayuSC2 wrote:
You guys know that they contacted all the gaming houses in Korea, but they all declined to train HOTS with Lilbow? Non of you guys have been in his situation and aren't even progamers. This is his job and he is doing what is in his best financial interest and best for his future career. His decision was selfish, definitely, but when you really feel you will have no chance of beating a player like Life and no motivation to play a game you don't enjoy anymore, combined with virtually no decent practice partners (I know some offered to help him, but we don't even know who these players were and if they could even take a map off of a player like Life) then it's very understandable.
I agree that he shouldn't have talked about not practicing, he said so to protect his ego, and it's admittedly childish, but people should try to understand him before jumping on the bandwagon and bashing him. What if he had trained hard and spent hours of practicing for this, and then he would've been crushed either way. He saved himself a lot of disappointment and time by not even trying something, which to him, the chances of winning, seemed not worth the effort. It's easy to call it a "loser mentality", but from what he has achieved so far, he is pretty far from having a "loser mentality".
The decision is of course his to make. But judgment for his actions is also the prerogative of viewers and the community. You see, many here have mentioned that "what if he trained hard and still lost?". Well we will never know would we - because he did not train at all. Not training just to save yourself from disappointment sounds pretty close to a "loser mentality", simply since you have given up without even trying.
Think about it for a bit - one of the traits that we love and value in the greatest personalities in Starcraft - the Boxers and the Mvps of our sport, is that even when things are tough, when they are down 50 supply 10 minutes in, or when their wrists hurt, or when they are just too old to compete anymore... these guys just keep giving it their 100%.
Sorry, but Lilbow is the complete opposite of this.
|
i've done this. i've had a hard test and couldn't find proper study material or any one to study with and just went to the test blind. usually cause i didn't try hard enough...
if he really couldn't find anyone to practice with this highlights the problems in the foreign scene...
|
On November 03 2015 16:22 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 14:28 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
But yeah, giving excuses of any kind for loosing in a competition is lame anyway, There is no such thing as a good excuse, the worst player looses and the better player wins; as simple as that. Lilbow was clearly the worst player in this match, so he lost, end of story.
You become a champion in your mind long before you do in real life. Not everyone who has that mindset becomes a champion, but no one without that mindset has ever become one (in anything meaningful). Thus, anytime a champion loses, they externalize why they lost. They believe they are the best, bar none, and the reason they lost isn't because the weren't the best it was an outside factor. You can call it an excuse, but if you make no excuses and just say the other guy is better, then you don't believe in yourself enough to be a champion. You have to know you are the best. And when champions win, they internalize why they won and it reinforces their belief they are the best. Sports psychology tells us this is the best way for champions to act. Check it out. Lilbow is a true champion, he believes in himself. He is doing the right thing by externalizing why he lost. And if he lost because he didn't care about HOTS, that is fine too. True champions don't care what anyone else thinks, all that matter is how they see themselves.
How can he be a winner when he lost the viewers respect and the tournament itself?
He is not a winner until he proved himself in lotv. Not to mention he felt it was impossible to beat innovation (forgive me if I rmb wrongly) plus his blame on life cheesing him out
|
People need to stop hating on Lilbow. It was the perfect decision as a professional to go and prepare the switch from HOTS to LOTV since his chances in winning against Life even with preperation are just okay. It gets him a Ro8 at Global Finals which obviously is an amazing success to him or any foreign player but so is being in the top 16 overall as well. It also grants him 2500$ more prize money.
He can easily achieve 2500$ when he is starting off Legacy in a really good shape as well as a chance to potentially win Dreamhack and if qualified for HSC even that event. A professional should always consider doing what gives him the most benefit in his career and it wasnt certainly not going all out practice to prepare vs Life.
For League of Legends check out the Worlds - even a team in the worlds could have prepared patch 5.21 instead of 5.18 if they have little to no chance to even make it out of the groups. I can understand and relate people didnt like it - Lilbow didnt play well, but Life also didnt put him in any basic situation where he could have showed his mid or lategame strategies.
And for people saying Lilbow could have skipped to play at all then: He fucking earned the spot - the only foreigner to earn it - why would he give it up?
|
On November 03 2015 20:07 NarutO wrote:
He can easily achieve 2500$ when he is starting off Legacy in a really good shape as well as a chance to potentially win Dreamhack and if qualified for HSC even that event. A professional should always consider doing what gives him the most benefit in his career and it wasnt certainly not going all out practice to prepare vs Life.
There is nothing between 2 games and going all out? How much practice does it take to repel a 6pool?
|
On November 03 2015 20:06 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 16:22 BronzeKnee wrote:On November 03 2015 14:28 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
But yeah, giving excuses of any kind for loosing in a competition is lame anyway, There is no such thing as a good excuse, the worst player looses and the better player wins; as simple as that. Lilbow was clearly the worst player in this match, so he lost, end of story.
You become a champion in your mind long before you do in real life. Not everyone who has that mindset becomes a champion, but no one without that mindset has ever become one (in anything meaningful). Thus, anytime a champion loses, they externalize why they lost. They believe they are the best, bar none, and the reason they lost isn't because the weren't the best it was an outside factor. You can call it an excuse, but if you make no excuses and just say the other guy is better, then you don't believe in yourself enough to be a champion. You have to know you are the best. And when champions win, they internalize why they won and it reinforces their belief they are the best. Sports psychology tells us this is the best way for champions to act. Check it out. Lilbow is a true champion, he believes in himself. He is doing the right thing by externalizing why he lost. And if he lost because he didn't care about HOTS, that is fine too. True champions don't care what anyone else thinks, all that matter is how they see themselves. How can he be a winner when he lost the viewers respect and the tournament itself? He is not a winner until he proved himself in lotv. Not to mention he felt it was impossible to beat innovation (forgive me if I rmb wrongly) plus his blame on life cheesing him out
Yeah I was pretty shocked when I read what the bronzeknee said. This is the first time in my life I am reading that apparently sports psychology states that giving up, and blaming external factors, is the proper mindset of a champion.
|
On November 03 2015 20:10 rotta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 20:07 NarutO wrote:
He can easily achieve 2500$ when he is starting off Legacy in a really good shape as well as a chance to potentially win Dreamhack and if qualified for HSC even that event. A professional should always consider doing what gives him the most benefit in his career and it wasnt certainly not going all out practice to prepare vs Life. There is nothing between 2 games and going all out? How much practice does it take to repel a 6pool?
He did defend against the 6pool - he lost because he made a questionable decision and went for a 4 gate allin after. He should have taken his expand. I dont believe he came with 2 games prepared but even if he would have, it would still have been the right call as a professional to make.
|
On November 03 2015 20:06 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 16:22 BronzeKnee wrote:On November 03 2015 14:28 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
But yeah, giving excuses of any kind for loosing in a competition is lame anyway, There is no such thing as a good excuse, the worst player looses and the better player wins; as simple as that. Lilbow was clearly the worst player in this match, so he lost, end of story.
You become a champion in your mind long before you do in real life. Not everyone who has that mindset becomes a champion, but no one without that mindset has ever become one (in anything meaningful). Thus, anytime a champion loses, they externalize why they lost. They believe they are the best, bar none, and the reason they lost isn't because the weren't the best it was an outside factor. You can call it an excuse, but if you make no excuses and just say the other guy is better, then you don't believe in yourself enough to be a champion. You have to know you are the best. And when champions win, they internalize why they won and it reinforces their belief they are the best. Sports psychology tells us this is the best way for champions to act. Check it out. Lilbow is a true champion, he believes in himself. He is doing the right thing by externalizing why he lost. And if he lost because he didn't care about HOTS, that is fine too. True champions don't care what anyone else thinks, all that matter is how they see themselves. How can he be a winner when he lost the viewers respect and the tournament itself? He is not a winner until he proved himself in lotv. Not to mention he felt it was impossible to beat innovation (forgive me if I rmb wrongly) plus his blame on life cheesing him out
He made top 16 - what do you want him to say? Yeah INnoVation who is that scrub? Its one point being confident - a whole other point being dumb.
|
On November 03 2015 19:49 Fej wrote:
Lilbow just a standard protoss player :~)
Nope. He is gifted. Without any doubt ! he will show it entirely in a near future.
|
On November 03 2015 20:17 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 20:06 ETisME wrote:On November 03 2015 16:22 BronzeKnee wrote:On November 03 2015 14:28 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
But yeah, giving excuses of any kind for loosing in a competition is lame anyway, There is no such thing as a good excuse, the worst player looses and the better player wins; as simple as that. Lilbow was clearly the worst player in this match, so he lost, end of story.
You become a champion in your mind long before you do in real life. Not everyone who has that mindset becomes a champion, but no one without that mindset has ever become one (in anything meaningful). Thus, anytime a champion loses, they externalize why they lost. They believe they are the best, bar none, and the reason they lost isn't because the weren't the best it was an outside factor. You can call it an excuse, but if you make no excuses and just say the other guy is better, then you don't believe in yourself enough to be a champion. You have to know you are the best. And when champions win, they internalize why they won and it reinforces their belief they are the best. Sports psychology tells us this is the best way for champions to act. Check it out. Lilbow is a true champion, he believes in himself. He is doing the right thing by externalizing why he lost. And if he lost because he didn't care about HOTS, that is fine too. True champions don't care what anyone else thinks, all that matter is how they see themselves. How can he be a winner when he lost the viewers respect and the tournament itself? He is not a winner until he proved himself in lotv. Not to mention he felt it was impossible to beat innovation (forgive me if I rmb wrongly) plus his blame on life cheesing him out He made top 16 - what do you want him to say? Yeah INnoVation who is that scrub? Its one point being confident - a whole other point being dumb.
The reigning WCS champion can't even tell that 12 pool isn't a proxy hatch in HotS. He's not even sad about losing on the biggest stage in Starcraft. He blames it all on Life.
Is any of this shit professional? Any of his tweets?
Somebody please prevent him from using social media after a tournament loss.
|
On November 03 2015 20:17 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 20:06 ETisME wrote:On November 03 2015 16:22 BronzeKnee wrote:On November 03 2015 14:28 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
But yeah, giving excuses of any kind for loosing in a competition is lame anyway, There is no such thing as a good excuse, the worst player looses and the better player wins; as simple as that. Lilbow was clearly the worst player in this match, so he lost, end of story.
You become a champion in your mind long before you do in real life. Not everyone who has that mindset becomes a champion, but no one without that mindset has ever become one (in anything meaningful). Thus, anytime a champion loses, they externalize why they lost. They believe they are the best, bar none, and the reason they lost isn't because the weren't the best it was an outside factor. You can call it an excuse, but if you make no excuses and just say the other guy is better, then you don't believe in yourself enough to be a champion. You have to know you are the best. And when champions win, they internalize why they won and it reinforces their belief they are the best. Sports psychology tells us this is the best way for champions to act. Check it out. Lilbow is a true champion, he believes in himself. He is doing the right thing by externalizing why he lost. And if he lost because he didn't care about HOTS, that is fine too. True champions don't care what anyone else thinks, all that matter is how they see themselves. How can he be a winner when he lost the viewers respect and the tournament itself? He is not a winner until he proved himself in lotv. Not to mention he felt it was impossible to beat innovation (forgive me if I rmb wrongly) plus his blame on life cheesing him out He made top 16 - what do you want him to say? Yeah INnoVation who is that scrub? Its one point being confident - a whole other point being dumb.
But there is also being dumb, and just giving up. Obviously, anyone going against life or innovation would have to recognize that these are two of the best SC 2 players, and that it will be difficult. However, if you think that it is impossible (i.e. giving up), then this is in no way the mindset of a champ. Life and Innovation have all lost maps to foreigners before, so it is obviously doable.
|
On November 03 2015 20:07 NarutO wrote:
People need to stop hating on Lilbow. It was the perfect decision as a professional to go and prepare the switch from HOTS to LOTV since his chances in winning against Life even with preperation are just okay. It gets him a Ro8 at Global Finals which obviously is an amazing success to him or any foreign player but so is being in the top 16 overall as well. It also grants him 2500$ more prize money.
He can easily achieve 2500$ when he is starting off Legacy in a really good shape as well as a chance to potentially win Dreamhack and if qualified for HSC even that event. A professional should always consider doing what gives him the most benefit in his career and it wasnt certainly not going all out practice to prepare vs Life.
For League of Legends check out the Worlds - even a team in the worlds could have prepared patch 5.21 instead of 5.18 if they have little to no chance to even make it out of the groups. I can understand and relate people didnt like it - Lilbow didnt play well, but Life also didnt put him in any basic situation where he could have showed his mid or lategame strategies.
And for people saying Lilbow could have skipped to play at all then: He fucking earned the spot - the only foreigner to earn it - why would he give it up?
I agree that some people should hold back a little in their critique but calling it "the perfect decision" is taking it a bit too far. He had a lot of time, it's not a given preparing more for Blizzcon would've certainly diminished his chances in LotV. Besides upcoming Dreamhack off-season is starting giving a lot of additional time to properly prepare for it and it's probably going to end up quite differently to the current game as well.
|
On November 03 2015 20:17 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 20:06 ETisME wrote:On November 03 2015 16:22 BronzeKnee wrote:On November 03 2015 14:28 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
But yeah, giving excuses of any kind for loosing in a competition is lame anyway, There is no such thing as a good excuse, the worst player looses and the better player wins; as simple as that. Lilbow was clearly the worst player in this match, so he lost, end of story.
You become a champion in your mind long before you do in real life. Not everyone who has that mindset becomes a champion, but no one without that mindset has ever become one (in anything meaningful). Thus, anytime a champion loses, they externalize why they lost. They believe they are the best, bar none, and the reason they lost isn't because the weren't the best it was an outside factor. You can call it an excuse, but if you make no excuses and just say the other guy is better, then you don't believe in yourself enough to be a champion. You have to know you are the best. And when champions win, they internalize why they won and it reinforces their belief they are the best. Sports psychology tells us this is the best way for champions to act. Check it out. Lilbow is a true champion, he believes in himself. He is doing the right thing by externalizing why he lost. And if he lost because he didn't care about HOTS, that is fine too. True champions don't care what anyone else thinks, all that matter is how they see themselves. How can he be a winner when he lost the viewers respect and the tournament itself? He is not a winner until he proved himself in lotv. Not to mention he felt it was impossible to beat innovation (forgive me if I rmb wrongly) plus his blame on life cheesing him out He made top 16 - what do you want him to say? Yeah INnoVation who is that scrub? Its one point being confident - a whole other point being dumb.
I don't see how that is categorised as a champion.
great achiever is not the same as a champion.
|
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress...
|
On November 03 2015 20:14 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 20:06 ETisME wrote:On November 03 2015 16:22 BronzeKnee wrote:On November 03 2015 14:28 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
But yeah, giving excuses of any kind for loosing in a competition is lame anyway, There is no such thing as a good excuse, the worst player looses and the better player wins; as simple as that. Lilbow was clearly the worst player in this match, so he lost, end of story.
You become a champion in your mind long before you do in real life. Not everyone who has that mindset becomes a champion, but no one without that mindset has ever become one (in anything meaningful). Thus, anytime a champion loses, they externalize why they lost. They believe they are the best, bar none, and the reason they lost isn't because the weren't the best it was an outside factor. You can call it an excuse, but if you make no excuses and just say the other guy is better, then you don't believe in yourself enough to be a champion. You have to know you are the best. And when champions win, they internalize why they won and it reinforces their belief they are the best. Sports psychology tells us this is the best way for champions to act. Check it out. Lilbow is a true champion, he believes in himself. He is doing the right thing by externalizing why he lost. And if he lost because he didn't care about HOTS, that is fine too. True champions don't care what anyone else thinks, all that matter is how they see themselves. How can he be a winner when he lost the viewers respect and the tournament itself? He is not a winner until he proved himself in lotv. Not to mention he felt it was impossible to beat innovation (forgive me if I rmb wrongly) plus his blame on life cheesing him out Yeah I was pretty shocked when I read what the bronzeknee said. This is the first time in my life I am reading that apparently sports psychology states that giving up, and blaming external factors, is the proper mindset of a champion.
Sports psychology is not really an exact science, I'm sure that there are people who do not agree with it or at least nuance it a bit. Bronzeknee also tailored this "knowledge" exactly to fit his opinion about the case.
|
On November 03 2015 20:30 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 20:14 levelping wrote:On November 03 2015 20:06 ETisME wrote:On November 03 2015 16:22 BronzeKnee wrote:On November 03 2015 14:28 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
But yeah, giving excuses of any kind for loosing in a competition is lame anyway, There is no such thing as a good excuse, the worst player looses and the better player wins; as simple as that. Lilbow was clearly the worst player in this match, so he lost, end of story.
You become a champion in your mind long before you do in real life. Not everyone who has that mindset becomes a champion, but no one without that mindset has ever become one (in anything meaningful). Thus, anytime a champion loses, they externalize why they lost. They believe they are the best, bar none, and the reason they lost isn't because the weren't the best it was an outside factor. You can call it an excuse, but if you make no excuses and just say the other guy is better, then you don't believe in yourself enough to be a champion. You have to know you are the best. And when champions win, they internalize why they won and it reinforces their belief they are the best. Sports psychology tells us this is the best way for champions to act. Check it out. Lilbow is a true champion, he believes in himself. He is doing the right thing by externalizing why he lost. And if he lost because he didn't care about HOTS, that is fine too. True champions don't care what anyone else thinks, all that matter is how they see themselves. How can he be a winner when he lost the viewers respect and the tournament itself? He is not a winner until he proved himself in lotv. Not to mention he felt it was impossible to beat innovation (forgive me if I rmb wrongly) plus his blame on life cheesing him out Yeah I was pretty shocked when I read what the bronzeknee said. This is the first time in my life I am reading that apparently sports psychology states that giving up, and blaming external factors, is the proper mindset of a champion. Sports psychology is not really an exact science, I'm sure that there are people who do not agree with it or at least nuance it a bit. Bronzeknee also tailored this "knowledge" exactly to fit his opinion about the case.
Agree. I am obviously not a sports psychologist, but looking at the best athletes, they do not shrug off losses or blame it entirely on external factors. I'm sure some might, but the best ones seem to take ownership of the failure and dig deep and try to improve.
|
I had little respect for Lilbow to begin with, and after this showing I have lost what little I had. I am glad he is out of the tournament and it might even please me somewhat if he fails in every tournament he plays after this. Life didn't even execute the baneling all-in in the second game all that well.
Also, most athletes I've seen interviewed after a loss just go "the other team/guy simply played better". Whats this nonsense about "externalizing losses"?
|
at first he was a lucky guy who got himself some money while at the same time disappointing the majority of his fans by not preparing at all (or so he claims).
but what he's doing now is just poor sports, blaming cheese and stating the tournament wouldn't mean anything to him. of course it did. i would be pissed if, as an example, Snute would do that. blizzard gave him money to play well, not to show up and lose as fast as he can
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
