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On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did.
People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games.
I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose.
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On November 03 2015 22:07 Umpteen wrote:
Right now he deserves the shitstorm. He's a professional athlete and part of the job description is that you carry the hopes and dreams of others on your shoulders, and respect the sport as much or more than the fans do. That's ultimately the only reason anyone cares about what you do enough for you to earn money doing it (unless you're so carelessly brilliant that you win anyway). You don't get to just shuck that burden without consequence.
Remember: he didn't have to show his working out here. He could have just said "That's Life - see you in LotV" and nobody would have batted an eyelid. But no - he was butthurt at getting 3-0'd by zerglings and had to offer up a public excuse.
The only question remaining is: did he ultimately make the right call by signing up for that shitstorm? We will only know when his LotV results start coming in. If he's winning tournaments then the gamble pays off. Fans will praise his judgement, his value will go up, viewership will be bolstered and everyone wins. If he nabs an early deep run and then disappears, or fails to make a mark entirely, he'll be a symbol of foreign failure: can't even win by stealing a march on the Koreans honourably striving to make the last big game of HotS a worthy spectacle. All he's done by making his thinking public is raise the stakes.
So no pressure.
I'd like to add that in reality, a little less practice in LotV beta the last few months wouldn't have had much (if not any at all) influence on his results the coming years.
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On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose.
Just from the SC2 scene in Norway I can tell you that new people do start watching SC2 and some people quite. I assume it's the same everywhere.
You put to much faith in the drama, I don't hate Lillbow, I just don't care anymore. He really did show to the world that foreigners don't belong on the big stage. I used to defend foreigners getting a region locked tournament but after this I really can't come up with a singel argument for keeping it. It just seem like a charity.
I know that foreigners are not as good as koreans but I did allways imagin the had some heart and passion. Without that, why am I watchign them play?
I can't think of a singel reason to watch them. I don't want Lillbow to lose, I don't care if he wins or loses to be honest.
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To all the ppl saying "it's Life, he had no chance against him", a half decent GM protoss wouldve won against those openings and gone 3-0 AGAINST Life.
How do you not defend a 6 pool?? All the protosses in this forum would've defended that. "He deserved to be at Blizzcon"??
IMHO he doesn't deserve to be GM playing that bad.
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On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:
I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose.
How do you practice when ~90% have switched to LotV beta? Its pretty clear all are playing LotV except the top16 who have to practice under very unfimiliar circumstance that never happened before. Blizzard should have closed LotV beta 2-3 weeks ago and not today/yesterday.
And no I wouldn't have asked TLO or wherever else, because they all are focused on LotV.
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He really did show to the world that foreigners don't belong on the big stage. I used to defend foreigners getting a region locked tournament but after this I really can't come up with a singel argument for keeping it. It just seem like a charity.
I can't agree with this, Lilbow's just one guy.
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On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent.
Are you actually serious?
Most people expected a 3-0 from Life over Lilbow. No one was surprised that Lilbow lost definitively.
The outrage is that Lilbow didn't practice or try, and made up tons of excuses. Notice that no one is hating on Zest, for example, who's infinitely better at PvAnything than Lilbow is, yet got absolutely crushed by Innovation. This is because we know that Zest practices and tries and doesn't act like a jerk on Twitter, and even though he got wrecked, he's still worthy of respect.
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On November 03 2015 22:22 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:
I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. How do you practice when ~90% have switched to LotV beta? Its pretty clear all are playing LotV except the top16 who have to practice under very unfimiliar circumstance that never happened before. Blizzard should have closed LotV beta 2-3 weeks ago and not today/yesterday. And no I wouldn't have asked TLO or wherever else, because they all are focused on LotV.
Again, this is a lie. TLO stated plenty of people were willing to practice with him and he declined. Even without that statment are you seriously so naive as to think the entire foreign scene between them can't produce a practice partner for the one person representing them at Blizzcon? That would be even mroe of a reason to stop the entire WCS program.
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On November 03 2015 22:23 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +He really did show to the world that foreigners don't belong on the big stage. I used to defend foreigners getting a region locked tournament but after this I really can't come up with a singel argument for keeping it. It just seem like a charity.
I can't agree with this, Lilbow's just one guy.
I think Stephano and Naniwa at their prime were two really good counterexamples to the claim that "foreigners don't belong on the big stage". There are others as well.
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Russian Federation1607 Posts
Reality #1:
- Lilbow makes a road to Blizzcon
- Trains hard his HotS skills for two months to gain his best form
- Plays really good games vs Life
- Loses 3-1 and is forgotten after a couple of weeks
Reality #2:
- Lilbow makes a road to Blizzcon
- Doesn't give a shit about training for Blizzcon
- Trains hard LotV to become next WCS champion next year
- Loses 3-0 to Life's cheeses miserably three games in a row
- Makes some tweets
- Becomes Starcraft superstar
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On November 03 2015 22:23 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +He really did show to the world that foreigners don't belong on the big stage. I used to defend foreigners getting a region locked tournament but after this I really can't come up with a singel argument for keeping it. It just seem like a charity.
I can't agree with this, Lilbow's just one guy.
And that one guy was representing the foreign scene and this is what it gave us.
You don't have to agree, if you want to keep watching you keep watching. I won't.
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On November 03 2015 22:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:23 Penev wrote:He really did show to the world that foreigners don't belong on the big stage. I used to defend foreigners getting a region locked tournament but after this I really can't come up with a singel argument for keeping it. It just seem like a charity.
I can't agree with this, Lilbow's just one guy. I think Stephano and Naniwa at their prime were two really good counterexamples to the claim that "foreigners don't belong on the big stage". There are others as well.
Indeed, and Lilbow himself proved to be a match for Polt and Hydra, who both performed well in their matches. So WCS isn't THAT much of a charity tourney.
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On November 03 2015 22:20 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:07 Umpteen wrote:
Right now he deserves the shitstorm. He's a professional athlete and part of the job description is that you carry the hopes and dreams of others on your shoulders, and respect the sport as much or more than the fans do. That's ultimately the only reason anyone cares about what you do enough for you to earn money doing it (unless you're so carelessly brilliant that you win anyway). You don't get to just shuck that burden without consequence.
Remember: he didn't have to show his working out here. He could have just said "That's Life - see you in LotV" and nobody would have batted an eyelid. But no - he was butthurt at getting 3-0'd by zerglings and had to offer up a public excuse.
The only question remaining is: did he ultimately make the right call by signing up for that shitstorm? We will only know when his LotV results start coming in. If he's winning tournaments then the gamble pays off. Fans will praise his judgement, his value will go up, viewership will be bolstered and everyone wins. If he nabs an early deep run and then disappears, or fails to make a mark entirely, he'll be a symbol of foreign failure: can't even win by stealing a march on the Koreans honourably striving to make the last big game of HotS a worthy spectacle. All he's done by making his thinking public is raise the stakes.
So no pressure. I'd like to add that in reality, a little less practice in LotV beta the last few months wouldn't have had much (if not any at all) influence on his results the coming years.
He qualified for Dreamhack. That wouldn't have been possible without LotV practice.
Given Dreamhack line-up, I'd say he has something like 70%+ chance of winning 1250$ (12th place finish)
Depending on who the four last players are, I'd say he has between 10 and 15% chance of winning 10k (1st).
Balance that against the 5% chance of winning 2500 more (I think? The liquipedia prize bracket for 4-8th finish is unclear)
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On November 03 2015 22:26 Jenia6109 wrote:
Reality #1:
- Lilbow makes a road to Blizzcon
- Trains hard his HotS skills for two months to gain his best form
- Plays really good games vs Life
- Loses 3-1 and is forgotten after a couple of weeks
Reality #2:
- Lilbow makes a road to Blizzcon
- Doesn't give a shit about training for Blizzcon
- Trains hard LotV to become next WCS champion next year
- Loses 3-0 to Life's cheeses miserably three games in a row
- Makes some tweets
- Becomes Starcraft superstar disliked by the community for disrespecting the game
FTFY. "Superstar" had a positive connotation to it, which is obviously not the direction his popularity is going.
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On November 03 2015 22:26 Jenia6109 wrote:
Reality #1:
- Lilbow makes a road to Blizzcon
- Trains hard his HotS skills for two months to gain his best form
- Plays really good games vs Life
- Loses 3-1 and is forgotten after a couple of weeks
Reality #2:
- Lilbow makes a road to Blizzcon
- Doesn't give a shit about training for Blizzcon
- Trains hard LotV to become next WCS champion next year
- Loses 3-0 to Life's cheeses miserably three games in a row
- Makes some tweets
- Becomes Starcraft superstar
Reality #2 is nonsense. Not because of being the WCS champion next year but because of that spending a little time on something else than LotV beta would be the difference in achieving that or not.
He qualified for Dreamhack. That wouldn't have been possible without LotV practice. He could have practiced both, he had a lot of time. He's a full time pro gamer. It wouldn't be ideal but the notion that it would've been impossible to properly prepare for both is a bit simplistic, I'm sorry to say.
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On November 03 2015 22:29 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:20 Penev wrote:On November 03 2015 22:07 Umpteen wrote:
Right now he deserves the shitstorm. He's a professional athlete and part of the job description is that you carry the hopes and dreams of others on your shoulders, and respect the sport as much or more than the fans do. That's ultimately the only reason anyone cares about what you do enough for you to earn money doing it (unless you're so carelessly brilliant that you win anyway). You don't get to just shuck that burden without consequence.
Remember: he didn't have to show his working out here. He could have just said "That's Life - see you in LotV" and nobody would have batted an eyelid. But no - he was butthurt at getting 3-0'd by zerglings and had to offer up a public excuse.
The only question remaining is: did he ultimately make the right call by signing up for that shitstorm? We will only know when his LotV results start coming in. If he's winning tournaments then the gamble pays off. Fans will praise his judgement, his value will go up, viewership will be bolstered and everyone wins. If he nabs an early deep run and then disappears, or fails to make a mark entirely, he'll be a symbol of foreign failure: can't even win by stealing a march on the Koreans honourably striving to make the last big game of HotS a worthy spectacle. All he's done by making his thinking public is raise the stakes.
So no pressure. I'd like to add that in reality, a little less practice in LotV beta the last few months wouldn't have had much (if not any at all) influence on his results the coming years. He qualified for Dreamhack. That wouldn't have been possible without LotV practice. Given Dreamhack line-up, I'd say he has something like 70%+ chance of winning 1250$ (12th place finish) Depending on who the four last players are, I'd say he has between 10 and 15% chance of winning 10k (1st). Balance that against the 0,05% chance of winning more money at blizzcon.
And he could sleep with random guys down at the docks for 500 dollars each making much more money if that's the only messurment of what the right choice is.
If you give so few fucks about the game you are supose to be a professional in that you can't be assed to practice or care about the bigest tournament of the year, hosted by the company paying your salary and the fans giving you the views you should fuck off.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose.
It certainly does show a lack of competitive integrity. Since people (casters) were drumming up Lilbow's achievement of making it to the Global Finals, the show of blatant disinterest afforded the year's grand finale would often be construed as indicative of a general mentality amongst WCS competitors. If this is the best WCS Premier could muster, I don't see that the sole representative being ravaged by rudimentary ling aggression three times in a row (and then saying he didn't practice) would make a great case for the league.
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On November 03 2015 22:34 ddayzy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:29 Nebuchad wrote:On November 03 2015 22:20 Penev wrote:On November 03 2015 22:07 Umpteen wrote:
Right now he deserves the shitstorm. He's a professional athlete and part of the job description is that you carry the hopes and dreams of others on your shoulders, and respect the sport as much or more than the fans do. That's ultimately the only reason anyone cares about what you do enough for you to earn money doing it (unless you're so carelessly brilliant that you win anyway). You don't get to just shuck that burden without consequence.
Remember: he didn't have to show his working out here. He could have just said "That's Life - see you in LotV" and nobody would have batted an eyelid. But no - he was butthurt at getting 3-0'd by zerglings and had to offer up a public excuse.
The only question remaining is: did he ultimately make the right call by signing up for that shitstorm? We will only know when his LotV results start coming in. If he's winning tournaments then the gamble pays off. Fans will praise his judgement, his value will go up, viewership will be bolstered and everyone wins. If he nabs an early deep run and then disappears, or fails to make a mark entirely, he'll be a symbol of foreign failure: can't even win by stealing a march on the Koreans honourably striving to make the last big game of HotS a worthy spectacle. All he's done by making his thinking public is raise the stakes.
So no pressure. I'd like to add that in reality, a little less practice in LotV beta the last few months wouldn't have had much (if not any at all) influence on his results the coming years. He qualified for Dreamhack. That wouldn't have been possible without LotV practice. Given Dreamhack line-up, I'd say he has something like 70%+ chance of winning 1250$ (12th place finish) Depending on who the four last players are, I'd say he has between 10 and 15% chance of winning 10k (1st). Balance that against the 0,05% chance of winning more money at blizzcon. And he could sleep with random guys down at the docks for 500 dollars each making much more money if that's the only messurment of what the right choice is.
I'm answering someone who says his choice doesn't have an influence on his future results. What do you want me to talk about? Your posts are pretty bad.
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Was there ever really a need for this post to exist? Everybody already gets why/what Lilbow is taking heat....honestly it's probably just Lycan trying to become relevant
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On November 03 2015 22:21 ddayzy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. Just from the SC2 scene in Norway I can tell you that new people do start watching SC2 and some people quite. I assume it's the same everywhere. You put to much faith in the drama, I don't hate Lillbow, I just don't care anymore. He really did show to the world that foreigners don't belong on the big stage. I used to defend foreigners getting a region locked tournament but after this I really can't come up with a singel argument for keeping it. It just seem like a charity. I know that foreigners are not as good as koreans but I did allways imagin the had some heart and passion. Without that, why am I watchign them play? I can't think of a singel reason to watch them. I don't want Lillbow to lose, I don't care if he wins or loses to be honest.
1) you're making a terrible generalization by saying all foreigners have no passion just because the actions of 1 guy.
2) I believe he showed that foreigners DO belong on the big stage. Lilbow didn't make the system and therefore can't be faulted by any perceived unfairness. Btw, I think saying the system is rigged is bullshit. Koreans living in teamhouses have their own advantages living and training in Korea and they can compete in several foreign tournaments to get wcs points.
3) why watch foreigners? I dunno, maybe like me, you're not an elitist. I think I can learn a lot from low level foreign gm. What's the difference? I like foreigners because I can relate to them. They do more fan interaction, interviews in English etc. etc.
4) why have wcs na and eu? Because region locked wcs makes it possible to go pro outside of Korea and keep the foreign dream alive. All those diamond players trying to hit masters, the master players hoping to hit gm, and the gm players trying to go pro. That's what makes the scene. Without it, sc2 would die even quicker.
edit:
On November 03 2015 22:36 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. It certainly does show a lack of competitive integrity. Since people (casters) were drumming up Lilbow's achievement of making it to the Global Finals, the show of blatant disinterest afforded the year's grand finale would often be construed as indicative of a general mentality amongst WCS competitors. If this is the best WCS Premier could muster, I don't see that the sole representative being ravaged by rudimentary ling aggression three times in a row (and then saying he didn't practice) would make a great case for the league.
They should drum up his achievement as it was remarkable. Competitive integrity, big words with a lot of potential interpretations. IMO, not practicing doesn't harm the competitive integrity. Match fixing does. Keep in mind, this is a very isolated incident and it's the first time he's done it. Most people competing in wcs practice a lot, otherwise they likely wouldn't make it very far (nevermind to the global finals).
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EPT
