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On November 03 2015 23:35 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 23:31 Nebuchad wrote:On November 03 2015 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. To be fair Bobby Fischer was a master in his field and we cannot say this about Lilbow. When Parting/MC were doing their "I don't give a shit" stances they were respected as the best players. They were winning, they were innovating meta. Lilbow isn't. And that's the difference. Also remember that this started by Lycan who was very vocal about some places reserved for foreigners and Lilbow now made this a little bit harder to pass. Even if Blizzard will make 2-4 spots in Blizzcon for foreigners Lilbow will be used as an example why this is a bad idea/decision ;-) The WCS system is designed to give an opportunity to foreigners to get to Blizzcon. Lilbow got to Blizzcon. The system works. There is no clause in the WCS system that says "you will magically look like you have a good shot against Life". If you had a good shot against Life, you wouldn't need a WCS system in the first place. I wasn't saying this. I was saying that Lycan (and some other people) wants to have some places at Blizzcon reserved for foreigners. The last time he was saying 4 places. Because otherwise there's a low chance of seeing a foreigner at Blizzcon. Now this idea is damaged by Lilbow because he will be used as an example that we had a foreigner there and look what happened.Or am I missing something? I wasn't against WCS ... not sure, my headache is killing me now, so I am a "little bit" off
I don't think so. I think this part of the discussion is artificially built up by people who don't like the WCS system to begin with. You could make a similar case to the "all foreigners are lazy and are not worth to play at Blizzcon" for "all Kespa players are cheaters and shouldn't be invited". It's plainly stupid. I don't see blizzard changing the system due to Lilbow's twitter reaction. Unless of course a majority of the community jumps on the train based on these flimsy grounds, in which case I'd say the community doesn't support the system anyways and the current situation is just the tip of the iceberg. Which I don't think is the situation at all, given that (at least this is my perception) WCS Global is one of the most popular leagues in terms of spectators.
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On November 03 2015 22:29 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:20 Penev wrote:On November 03 2015 22:07 Umpteen wrote:
Right now he deserves the shitstorm. He's a professional athlete and part of the job description is that you carry the hopes and dreams of others on your shoulders, and respect the sport as much or more than the fans do. That's ultimately the only reason anyone cares about what you do enough for you to earn money doing it (unless you're so carelessly brilliant that you win anyway). You don't get to just shuck that burden without consequence.
Remember: he didn't have to show his working out here. He could have just said "That's Life - see you in LotV" and nobody would have batted an eyelid. But no - he was butthurt at getting 3-0'd by zerglings and had to offer up a public excuse.
The only question remaining is: did he ultimately make the right call by signing up for that shitstorm? We will only know when his LotV results start coming in. If he's winning tournaments then the gamble pays off. Fans will praise his judgement, his value will go up, viewership will be bolstered and everyone wins. If he nabs an early deep run and then disappears, or fails to make a mark entirely, he'll be a symbol of foreign failure: can't even win by stealing a march on the Koreans honourably striving to make the last big game of HotS a worthy spectacle. All he's done by making his thinking public is raise the stakes.
So no pressure. I'd like to add that in reality, a little less practice in LotV beta the last few months wouldn't have had much (if not any at all) influence on his results the coming years. He qualified for Dreamhack. That wouldn't have been possible without LotV practice. Given Dreamhack line-up, I'd say he has something like 70%+ chance of winning 1250$ (12th place finish) Depending on who the four last players are, I'd say he has between 10 and 15% chance of winning 10k (1st). Balance that against the 5% chance of winning 2500 more (I think? The liquipedia prize bracket for 4-8th finish is unclear)
Lilbow qualified for Dreamhack for the exact same reason he made Blizzcon. Koreans weren't allowed to compete
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On November 03 2015 23:45 Kerm wrote:Show nested quote +TLO stated plenty of people were willing to practice with him and he declined. I have a lot of respect for TLO as it is a player i follow since WoL beta and his random days, yet a little less sincehe decided to attack Lilbow publicly on Twitter (however I can understand and forgive why he could not resist the urge to do that). However I find people a little quick on the trigger : - Who was willing to practice with Lilbow ? - When ? - How was the offer turned down ? - Why ? Lots of questions unanswered. How do you spell "hate train" again ?  ps : And yeah, Mill. staff people, come on protect your player a lil' better, some PR advices should have been given (like just cut off from the internet for 2 weeks" ^^).
It might be TLO offered to help. Would justify his tweets a bit more as well.
Edit: I'm fine with TLO's tweets btw
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On November 03 2015 23:40 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 23:37 Nebuchad wrote:On November 03 2015 23:35 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 23:31 Nebuchad wrote:On November 03 2015 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. To be fair Bobby Fischer was a master in his field and we cannot say this about Lilbow. When Parting/MC were doing their "I don't give a shit" stances they were respected as the best players. They were winning, they were innovating meta. Lilbow isn't. And that's the difference. Also remember that this started by Lycan who was very vocal about some places reserved for foreigners and Lilbow now made this a little bit harder to pass. Even if Blizzard will make 2-4 spots in Blizzcon for foreigners Lilbow will be used as an example why this is a bad idea/decision ;-) The WCS system is designed to give an opportunity to foreigners to get to Blizzcon. Lilbow got to Blizzcon. The system works. There is no clause in the WCS system that says "you will magically look like you have a good shot against Life". If you had a good shot against Life, you wouldn't need a WCS system in the first place. I wasn't saying this. I was saying that Lycan (and some other people) wants to have some places at Blizzcon reserved for foreigners. The last time he was saying 4 places. Because otherwise there's a low chance of seeing a foreigner at Blizzcon. Now this idea is damaged by Lilbow because he will be used as an example that we had a foreigner there and look what happened. Or am I missing something? I wasn't against WCS ... not sure, my headache is killing me now, so I am a "little bit" off Well it's a good thing then, four places reserved to foreigners for Blizzcon is a terrible idea. Incontrol(I think) asked Lycan to name 4 competent foreigners. He said Lilbow, Mana, Snute and maybe TLO(I think)... then the case was closed with "we have a problem naming 4 competent players and you want 4 places there?" statement  It is not accurate and I am at work and cannot find the episode of TLG where it happened.
You're spot on.
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On November 03 2015 23:51 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 23:45 Kerm wrote:TLO stated plenty of people were willing to practice with him and he declined. I have a lot of respect for TLO as it is a player i follow since WoL beta and his random days, yet a little less sincehe decided to attack Lilbow publicly on Twitter (however I can understand and forgive why he could not resist the urge to do that). However I find people a little quick on the trigger : - Who was willing to practice with Lilbow ? - When ? - How was the offer turned down ? - Why ? Lots of questions unanswered. How do you spell "hate train" again ? ps : And yeah, Mill. staff people, come on protect your player a lil' better, some PR advices should have been given (like just cut off from the internet for 2 weeks" ^^). It might be TLO offered to help. Would justify his tweets a bit more as well.
That's how I understood it anyway. It's a normal reaction, most foreigners wanted Lilbow to do well, and so did TLO. He offered to help, lilbow turned him down. I got the impression TLO knew Lilbow didn't practice much during the "couch session" before the games
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On November 03 2015 23:56 Sakat wrote:
It might be TLO offered to help. Would justify his tweets a bit more as well.
That's how I understood it anyway. It's a normal reaction, most foreigners wanted Lilbow to do well, and so did TLO. He offered to help, lilbow turned him down. I got the impression TLO knew Lilbow didn't practice much during the "couch session" before the games
Again, that's pure speculation from your part.
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On November 03 2015 23:47 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 23:35 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 23:31 Nebuchad wrote:On November 03 2015 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. To be fair Bobby Fischer was a master in his field and we cannot say this about Lilbow. When Parting/MC were doing their "I don't give a shit" stances they were respected as the best players. They were winning, they were innovating meta. Lilbow isn't. And that's the difference. Also remember that this started by Lycan who was very vocal about some places reserved for foreigners and Lilbow now made this a little bit harder to pass. Even if Blizzard will make 2-4 spots in Blizzcon for foreigners Lilbow will be used as an example why this is a bad idea/decision ;-) The WCS system is designed to give an opportunity to foreigners to get to Blizzcon. Lilbow got to Blizzcon. The system works. There is no clause in the WCS system that says "you will magically look like you have a good shot against Life". If you had a good shot against Life, you wouldn't need a WCS system in the first place. I wasn't saying this. I was saying that Lycan (and some other people) wants to have some places at Blizzcon reserved for foreigners. The last time he was saying 4 places. Because otherwise there's a low chance of seeing a foreigner at Blizzcon. Now this idea is damaged by Lilbow because he will be used as an example that we had a foreigner there and look what happened.Or am I missing something? I wasn't against WCS ... not sure, my headache is killing me now, so I am a "little bit" off I don't think so. I think this part of the discussion is artificially built up by people who don't like the WCS system to begin with. You could make a similar case to the "all foreigners are lazy and are not worth to play at Blizzcon" for "all Kespa players are cheaters and shouldn't be invited". It's plainly stupid. I don't see blizzard changing the system due to Lilbow's twitter reaction. Unless of course a majority of the community jumps on the train based on these flimsy grounds, in which case I'd say the community doesn't support the system anyways and the current situation is just the tip of the iceberg. Which I don't think is the situation at all, given that (at least this is my perception) WCS Global is one of the most popular leagues in terms of spectators.
C'mon, taking match selling by Prime to this discussion? They were not even close to advance to Blizzcon. And Lilbow with his attitude just made the case for foreigners worse. Had he been silent... (I am not very good with ifs so if it's wrong ignore it  )
Anyway, because I am under affection of my painkillers all I have to say is>
Ready to roar, ready or not
Ready to give it all I've got
Gotta live to win, get up, get out, get even
Ready to roar, ready or not
Ready to give it one more shot
Let the game begin, need something to believe in
Ready to roar!
And that's why Life is a GSL winner and Lilbow is just a player who don't know when to be silent
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On November 04 2015 00:01 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 23:47 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 23:35 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 23:31 Nebuchad wrote:On November 03 2015 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. To be fair Bobby Fischer was a master in his field and we cannot say this about Lilbow. When Parting/MC were doing their "I don't give a shit" stances they were respected as the best players. They were winning, they were innovating meta. Lilbow isn't. And that's the difference. Also remember that this started by Lycan who was very vocal about some places reserved for foreigners and Lilbow now made this a little bit harder to pass. Even if Blizzard will make 2-4 spots in Blizzcon for foreigners Lilbow will be used as an example why this is a bad idea/decision ;-) The WCS system is designed to give an opportunity to foreigners to get to Blizzcon. Lilbow got to Blizzcon. The system works. There is no clause in the WCS system that says "you will magically look like you have a good shot against Life". If you had a good shot against Life, you wouldn't need a WCS system in the first place. I wasn't saying this. I was saying that Lycan (and some other people) wants to have some places at Blizzcon reserved for foreigners. The last time he was saying 4 places. Because otherwise there's a low chance of seeing a foreigner at Blizzcon. Now this idea is damaged by Lilbow because he will be used as an example that we had a foreigner there and look what happened.Or am I missing something? I wasn't against WCS ... not sure, my headache is killing me now, so I am a "little bit" off I don't think so. I think this part of the discussion is artificially built up by people who don't like the WCS system to begin with. You could make a similar case to the "all foreigners are lazy and are not worth to play at Blizzcon" for "all Kespa players are cheaters and shouldn't be invited". It's plainly stupid. I don't see blizzard changing the system due to Lilbow's twitter reaction. Unless of course a majority of the community jumps on the train based on these flimsy grounds, in which case I'd say the community doesn't support the system anyways and the current situation is just the tip of the iceberg. Which I don't think is the situation at all, given that (at least this is my perception) WCS Global is one of the most popular leagues in terms of spectators. C'mon, taking match selling by Prime to this discussion? They were not even close to advance to Blizzcon. And Lilbow with his attitude just made the case for foreigners worse. Had he been silent... (I am not very good with ifs so if it's wrong ignore it ) Anyway, because I am under affection of my painkillers all I have to say is> Ready to roar, ready or not Ready to give it all I've got
Gotta live to win, get up, get out, get evenReady to roar, ready or not Ready to give it one more shot Let the game begin, need something to believe in Ready to roar! And that's why Life is a GSL winner and Lilbow is just a player who don't know when to be silent
Somehow the "adorable" and "Prime" in your sig don't seem to be very compatible anymore.
Poor Lorning
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On November 03 2015 14:30 Joedaddy wrote:
Go home Lycan. You're drunk.
seriously though, the sheer emotion in your post is bewildering. Stephano used to brag about how little he prepared too, and I don't remember any witch hunt propaganda back then. The only thing this OP has me wondering is what Lilbow really did to spur you into pitchfork wielding action? And please don't tell me its blatant disregard for your viewing pleasure. No rational adult reacts the way you did because some stranger didn't meet their standards of trying hard.
What an absurd OP.
I did a pretty good job of keeping the emotions low and sticking to the logical side of the situation. "Witch hunt propaganda" is a tad hyperbolic, mate. I wield no pitch forks. I'm not asking for people to do stupid shit like write to his sponsors or blacklist him from tournament invites.
He made a decision, he let people know about the decision, and now his choices are being scrutinized like every other professional athlete's choices. We're on the cusp of WCS 2016 where people want the system to give foreigners a better chance at Blizzcon, and his choices undermine the fan base who wants to see them there and the people running the tournaments. Let's be real, when we talk about region locking, we aren't satisfied with players only having a chance to get to the Round of 16 and possibly win the season finals - we want their asses at Blizzcon. For better or worse, we want them at the global finals. There will always be an unbeatable Korean v. Foreigner match up at Blizzcon and we should expect every foreigner to face that challenge with determination and their eye on the prize - not looking past the WCS Finals Trophy for a DreamHack or WCS Season 1 that hasn't even started yet.
This is a post filled with emotion.
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On November 04 2015 00:04 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 00:01 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 23:47 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 23:35 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 23:31 Nebuchad wrote:On November 03 2015 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. To be fair Bobby Fischer was a master in his field and we cannot say this about Lilbow. When Parting/MC were doing their "I don't give a shit" stances they were respected as the best players. They were winning, they were innovating meta. Lilbow isn't. And that's the difference. Also remember that this started by Lycan who was very vocal about some places reserved for foreigners and Lilbow now made this a little bit harder to pass. Even if Blizzard will make 2-4 spots in Blizzcon for foreigners Lilbow will be used as an example why this is a bad idea/decision ;-) The WCS system is designed to give an opportunity to foreigners to get to Blizzcon. Lilbow got to Blizzcon. The system works. There is no clause in the WCS system that says "you will magically look like you have a good shot against Life". If you had a good shot against Life, you wouldn't need a WCS system in the first place. I wasn't saying this. I was saying that Lycan (and some other people) wants to have some places at Blizzcon reserved for foreigners. The last time he was saying 4 places. Because otherwise there's a low chance of seeing a foreigner at Blizzcon. Now this idea is damaged by Lilbow because he will be used as an example that we had a foreigner there and look what happened.Or am I missing something? I wasn't against WCS ... not sure, my headache is killing me now, so I am a "little bit" off I don't think so. I think this part of the discussion is artificially built up by people who don't like the WCS system to begin with. You could make a similar case to the "all foreigners are lazy and are not worth to play at Blizzcon" for "all Kespa players are cheaters and shouldn't be invited". It's plainly stupid. I don't see blizzard changing the system due to Lilbow's twitter reaction. Unless of course a majority of the community jumps on the train based on these flimsy grounds, in which case I'd say the community doesn't support the system anyways and the current situation is just the tip of the iceberg. Which I don't think is the situation at all, given that (at least this is my perception) WCS Global is one of the most popular leagues in terms of spectators. C'mon, taking match selling by Prime to this discussion? They were not even close to advance to Blizzcon. And Lilbow with his attitude just made the case for foreigners worse. Had he been silent... (I am not very good with ifs so if it's wrong ignore it ) Anyway, because I am under affection of my painkillers all I have to say is> Ready to roar, ready or not Ready to give it all I've got
Gotta live to win, get up, get out, get evenReady to roar, ready or not Ready to give it one more shot Let the game begin, need something to believe in Ready to roar! And that's why Life is a GSL winner and Lilbow is just a player who don't know when to be silent Somehow the "adorable" and "Prime" in your sig don't seem to be very compatible anymore. Poor Lorning
GOD DAMN IT! Yeah, I forgot, I don't care about my signature and I've seen this somewhere. I'll change it.
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This is pretty fucked thanks to lilbow.
I miss Stephano
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Lilbow still doesn't understand why people are disappointed in him. He still thinks it's because he got cheesed and died to Life.
That's some defense mechanism there, trying his hardest to not understand jack shit.
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On November 04 2015 00:08 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 00:04 Penev wrote:On November 04 2015 00:01 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 23:47 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 23:35 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 23:31 Nebuchad wrote:On November 03 2015 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. To be fair Bobby Fischer was a master in his field and we cannot say this about Lilbow. When Parting/MC were doing their "I don't give a shit" stances they were respected as the best players. They were winning, they were innovating meta. Lilbow isn't. And that's the difference. Also remember that this started by Lycan who was very vocal about some places reserved for foreigners and Lilbow now made this a little bit harder to pass. Even if Blizzard will make 2-4 spots in Blizzcon for foreigners Lilbow will be used as an example why this is a bad idea/decision ;-) The WCS system is designed to give an opportunity to foreigners to get to Blizzcon. Lilbow got to Blizzcon. The system works. There is no clause in the WCS system that says "you will magically look like you have a good shot against Life". If you had a good shot against Life, you wouldn't need a WCS system in the first place. I wasn't saying this. I was saying that Lycan (and some other people) wants to have some places at Blizzcon reserved for foreigners. The last time he was saying 4 places. Because otherwise there's a low chance of seeing a foreigner at Blizzcon. Now this idea is damaged by Lilbow because he will be used as an example that we had a foreigner there and look what happened.Or am I missing something? I wasn't against WCS ... not sure, my headache is killing me now, so I am a "little bit" off I don't think so. I think this part of the discussion is artificially built up by people who don't like the WCS system to begin with. You could make a similar case to the "all foreigners are lazy and are not worth to play at Blizzcon" for "all Kespa players are cheaters and shouldn't be invited". It's plainly stupid. I don't see blizzard changing the system due to Lilbow's twitter reaction. Unless of course a majority of the community jumps on the train based on these flimsy grounds, in which case I'd say the community doesn't support the system anyways and the current situation is just the tip of the iceberg. Which I don't think is the situation at all, given that (at least this is my perception) WCS Global is one of the most popular leagues in terms of spectators. C'mon, taking match selling by Prime to this discussion? They were not even close to advance to Blizzcon. And Lilbow with his attitude just made the case for foreigners worse. Had he been silent... (I am not very good with ifs so if it's wrong ignore it ) Anyway, because I am under affection of my painkillers all I have to say is> Ready to roar, ready or not Ready to give it all I've got
Gotta live to win, get up, get out, get evenReady to roar, ready or not Ready to give it one more shot Let the game begin, need something to believe in Ready to roar! And that's why Life is a GSL winner and Lilbow is just a player who don't know when to be silent Somehow the "adorable" and "Prime" in your sig don't seem to be very compatible anymore. Poor Lorning GOD DAMN IT! Yeah, I forgot, I don't care about my signature and I've seen this somewhere. I'll change it.
Do a Lilbow one 
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On November 04 2015 00:11 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 00:08 deacon.frost wrote:On November 04 2015 00:04 Penev wrote:On November 04 2015 00:01 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 23:47 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 23:35 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 23:31 Nebuchad wrote:On November 03 2015 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. To be fair Bobby Fischer was a master in his field and we cannot say this about Lilbow. When Parting/MC were doing their "I don't give a shit" stances they were respected as the best players. They were winning, they were innovating meta. Lilbow isn't. And that's the difference. Also remember that this started by Lycan who was very vocal about some places reserved for foreigners and Lilbow now made this a little bit harder to pass. Even if Blizzard will make 2-4 spots in Blizzcon for foreigners Lilbow will be used as an example why this is a bad idea/decision ;-) The WCS system is designed to give an opportunity to foreigners to get to Blizzcon. Lilbow got to Blizzcon. The system works. There is no clause in the WCS system that says "you will magically look like you have a good shot against Life". If you had a good shot against Life, you wouldn't need a WCS system in the first place. I wasn't saying this. I was saying that Lycan (and some other people) wants to have some places at Blizzcon reserved for foreigners. The last time he was saying 4 places. Because otherwise there's a low chance of seeing a foreigner at Blizzcon. Now this idea is damaged by Lilbow because he will be used as an example that we had a foreigner there and look what happened.Or am I missing something? I wasn't against WCS ... not sure, my headache is killing me now, so I am a "little bit" off I don't think so. I think this part of the discussion is artificially built up by people who don't like the WCS system to begin with. You could make a similar case to the "all foreigners are lazy and are not worth to play at Blizzcon" for "all Kespa players are cheaters and shouldn't be invited". It's plainly stupid. I don't see blizzard changing the system due to Lilbow's twitter reaction. Unless of course a majority of the community jumps on the train based on these flimsy grounds, in which case I'd say the community doesn't support the system anyways and the current situation is just the tip of the iceberg. Which I don't think is the situation at all, given that (at least this is my perception) WCS Global is one of the most popular leagues in terms of spectators. C'mon, taking match selling by Prime to this discussion? They were not even close to advance to Blizzcon. And Lilbow with his attitude just made the case for foreigners worse. Had he been silent... (I am not very good with ifs so if it's wrong ignore it ) Anyway, because I am under affection of my painkillers all I have to say is> Ready to roar, ready or not Ready to give it all I've got
Gotta live to win, get up, get out, get evenReady to roar, ready or not Ready to give it one more shot Let the game begin, need something to believe in Ready to roar! And that's why Life is a GSL winner and Lilbow is just a player who don't know when to be silent Somehow the "adorable" and "Prime" in your sig don't seem to be very compatible anymore. Poor Lorning GOD DAMN IT! Yeah, I forgot, I don't care about my signature and I've seen this somewhere. I'll change it. Do a Lilbow one
I used the post from Zealously from the O'Gaming nation wars event
(I am not a creative person)
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On November 03 2015 14:28 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
Players don't owe shit to anyone. So sick of hearing all those entitled pricks saying X player behaviour is disrespectful towards the fans; or that they should do Y or Z because of shit. People saying Lilbow should have given his spot away if he was not going to prepare well enough. "lack of respect for the most prestogious event of the year", what a load of nonsense....
It's an individual competition. If you get to whichever point you get to, it's because you've earned it, it's the spot you deserve. You don't just hand a spot to someone else, it's not the "Care Bare association for not good enough player that couldn't make it but are nice so let's give them a free spot".
The 17th player on the list is undeserving of even putting a foot in the WCS global 16 men finals. period. That's just what competition is. And any of the 16 players who earned their spot isn't required to do anything else than qualifying to still deserve their spot.
They can still come as unprepared as you may imagine it doesn't take anything from what they did to get there before. They don't even have to practice, which shows how much more e-sports has to go to meet established sports standards in which athletes get fined when they miss training, because it's in their contract and in this case they owe their employer to be present at every training session.
When you are alone competing in an individual competition for a prize it's very different, the tournaments organizers are not your employers and you don't owe them anything else than respecting their rules. You think what Lilbow did is bad for them? It's not. This public shaming is ridiculous.
A player doesn't owe his fans or the viewers anything, it's not like you are doing someone a favour by watching/cheering for him; you do it for yourself to entertain yourself and that's a fair exchange.
A quick 3-0 doesn't sound that shocking vs Life, one of the best Koreans ever, even if Lilbow did practice a lot and lost in similar fashion it would not have been a huge surprise.
But yeah, giving excuses of any kind for loosing in a competition is lame anyway, There is no such thing as a good excuse, the worst player looses and the better player wins; as simple as that. Lilbow was clearly the worst player in this match, so he lost, end of story.
"i'll give Lilbow the benefit of the doubt" ,"You, as a fan of Lilbow, have every right to be upset"
Get off your high horse.
It really seems like you directly came out of a recent South Park episode with all the PC stuff going on.
I disagree with a lot of what you said, especially your little jabs at the end. I'm on no high horse, friend. And yeah, I'm PC OSU Chapter. WOO WOO on YOU.
Just to touch on a few of the points you made:
People saying Lilbow should have given his spot away...
I never said that. I don't believe he should have. He earned it, he deserved to be there.
Players don't owe shit to anyone. So sick of hearing all those entitled pricks saying X player behaviour is disrespectful towards the fans; or that they should do Y or Z because of shit.
I hate when a fan base has unrealistic expectations of what they are "owed" by a player. But the reality is players DO owe their fans to some degree. Fans make players relevant. Fans are why players have a job. Fans come to the competitions, watch the streams, buy the merchandise, etc. I don't believe lilbow acted maliciously and thought "fuck you all" when he made his decision. That doesn't change how disrespectful it was - and yes, contrary to your hyper aggressive, "players are not accountable to anyone but themselves" outlook, there is disrespect in his actions.
When you are alone competing in an individual competition for a prize it's very different, the tournaments organizers are not your employers and you don't owe them anything else than respecting their rules.
Blizzcon does deserve respect. If he and other foreigners don't respect the WCS, then I say open the flood gates and let the Koreans back in.
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On November 04 2015 00:10 joon wrote:
This is pretty fucked thanks to lilbow.
I miss Stephano
Man, Stephano at his height was such a joy to watch. I remember the EGTL foreigners struggling so hard for their first win in Proleague (which Thorzain got against a Terran Classic), yet Stephano shows up and wins on his first try against herO of all people. Even if he never could take a championship in Korea, he always felt like a serious threat to many Korean players, which is more than I could say for any foreigner nowadays.
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On November 04 2015 00:22 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 00:11 Penev wrote:On November 04 2015 00:08 deacon.frost wrote:On November 04 2015 00:04 Penev wrote:On November 04 2015 00:01 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 23:47 Big J wrote:On November 03 2015 23:35 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 23:31 Nebuchad wrote:On November 03 2015 23:26 deacon.frost wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:
[quote]
Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent.
To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. To be fair Bobby Fischer was a master in his field and we cannot say this about Lilbow. When Parting/MC were doing their "I don't give a shit" stances they were respected as the best players. They were winning, they were innovating meta. Lilbow isn't. And that's the difference. Also remember that this started by Lycan who was very vocal about some places reserved for foreigners and Lilbow now made this a little bit harder to pass. Even if Blizzard will make 2-4 spots in Blizzcon for foreigners Lilbow will be used as an example why this is a bad idea/decision ;-) The WCS system is designed to give an opportunity to foreigners to get to Blizzcon. Lilbow got to Blizzcon. The system works. There is no clause in the WCS system that says "you will magically look like you have a good shot against Life". If you had a good shot against Life, you wouldn't need a WCS system in the first place. I wasn't saying this. I was saying that Lycan (and some other people) wants to have some places at Blizzcon reserved for foreigners. The last time he was saying 4 places. Because otherwise there's a low chance of seeing a foreigner at Blizzcon. Now this idea is damaged by Lilbow because he will be used as an example that we had a foreigner there and look what happened.Or am I missing something? I wasn't against WCS ... not sure, my headache is killing me now, so I am a "little bit" off I don't think so. I think this part of the discussion is artificially built up by people who don't like the WCS system to begin with. You could make a similar case to the "all foreigners are lazy and are not worth to play at Blizzcon" for "all Kespa players are cheaters and shouldn't be invited". It's plainly stupid. I don't see blizzard changing the system due to Lilbow's twitter reaction. Unless of course a majority of the community jumps on the train based on these flimsy grounds, in which case I'd say the community doesn't support the system anyways and the current situation is just the tip of the iceberg. Which I don't think is the situation at all, given that (at least this is my perception) WCS Global is one of the most popular leagues in terms of spectators. C'mon, taking match selling by Prime to this discussion? They were not even close to advance to Blizzcon. And Lilbow with his attitude just made the case for foreigners worse. Had he been silent... (I am not very good with ifs so if it's wrong ignore it ) Anyway, because I am under affection of my painkillers all I have to say is> Ready to roar, ready or not Ready to give it all I've got
Gotta live to win, get up, get out, get evenReady to roar, ready or not Ready to give it one more shot Let the game begin, need something to believe in Ready to roar! And that's why Life is a GSL winner and Lilbow is just a player who don't know when to be silent Somehow the "adorable" and "Prime" in your sig don't seem to be very compatible anymore. Poor Lorning GOD DAMN IT! Yeah, I forgot, I don't care about my signature and I've seen this somewhere. I'll change it. Do a Lilbow one I used the post from Zealously from the O'Gaming nation wars event (I am not a creative person)
Haha, I like it
On November 04 2015 00:25 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 00:10 joon wrote:
This is pretty fucked thanks to lilbow.
I miss Stephano Man, Stephano at his height was such a joy to watch. I remember the EGTL foreigners struggling so hard for their first win in Proleague (which Thorzain got against a Terran Classic), yet Stephano shows up and wins on his first try against herO of all people. Even if he never could take a championship in Korea, he always felt like a serious threat to many Korean players, which is more than I could say for any foreigner nowadays.
Remember that foreigners v Koreans teamgame when Stephano stepped in? That was sooo cool
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On November 04 2015 00:01 Kerm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 23:56 Sakat wrote:
It might be TLO offered to help. Would justify his tweets a bit more as well. Show nested quote +
That's how I understood it anyway. It's a normal reaction, most foreigners wanted Lilbow to do well, and so did TLO. He offered to help, lilbow turned him down. I got the impression TLO knew Lilbow didn't practice much during the "couch session" before the games
Again, that's pure speculation from your part.
Yes. I never claimed otherwise.
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On November 03 2015 22:44 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:21 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. Just from the SC2 scene in Norway I can tell you that new people do start watching SC2 and some people quite. I assume it's the same everywhere. You put to much faith in the drama, I don't hate Lillbow, I just don't care anymore. He really did show to the world that foreigners don't belong on the big stage. I used to defend foreigners getting a region locked tournament but after this I really can't come up with a singel argument for keeping it. It just seem like a charity. I know that foreigners are not as good as koreans but I did allways imagin the had some heart and passion. Without that, why am I watchign them play? I can't think of a singel reason to watch them. I don't want Lillbow to lose, I don't care if he wins or loses to be honest. 1) you're making a terrible generalization by saying all foreigners have no passion just because the actions of 1 guy. 2) I believe he showed that foreigners DO belong on the big stage. Lilbow didn't make the system and therefore can't be faulted by any perceived unfairness. Btw, I think saying the system is rigged is bullshit. Koreans living in teamhouses have their own advantages living and training in Korea and they can compete in several foreign tournaments to get wcs points. 3) why watch foreigners? I dunno, maybe like me, you're not an elitist. I think I can learn a lot from low level foreign gm. What's the difference? I like foreigners because I can relate to them. They do more fan interaction, interviews in English etc. etc. 4) why have wcs na and eu? Because region locked wcs makes it possible to go pro outside of Korea and keep the foreign dream alive. All those diamond players trying to hit masters, the master players hoping to hit gm, and the gm players trying to go pro. That's what makes the scene. Without it, sc2 would die even quicker. edit: Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:36 Zealously wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. It certainly does show a lack of competitive integrity. Since people (casters) were drumming up Lilbow's achievement of making it to the Global Finals, the show of blatant disinterest afforded the year's grand finale would often be construed as indicative of a general mentality amongst WCS competitors. If this is the best WCS Premier could muster, I don't see that the sole representative being ravaged by rudimentary ling aggression three times in a row (and then saying he didn't practice) would make a great case for the league. They should drum up his achievement as it was remarkable. Competitive integrity, big words with a lot of potential interpretations. IMO, not practicing doesn't harm the competitive integrity. Match fixing does. Keep in mind, this is a very isolated incident and it's the first time he's done it. Most people competing in wcs practice a lot, otherwise they likely wouldn't make it very far (nevermind to the global finals).
1. It's a observation based on the actions of the REPRESENTATIV of foreign starcraft at the most important tournament in Starcraft. It's the image he presented of foreign Starcraft to the world and he draged it further down by saying that nobody would practice with him, how unprofessional does that sound? What do you think the koreans or people watching for the first time think about foreign Starcraft after this?
2. The system is rigged, you can not seriously be debating this? If Lilbow had to compete versus the koreans who spot he took only to not practice he would not have gotten that far. The very least he could to for all the free money and wins he got was to try his hardest. It is the equivilent to having the winner of the scottish league play the winner of Premier League for the Premier League title. One team had a much easier road then the other.
3. Heh I love people using the word elitist, is it supose to be a insult? I general people prefer to watch people who are better at things over those worse at it. So you relate to Lilbows attitude? Giving up, no respect for fans tournament host and other players, not preparing not caring. Those are the things you can relate to?
4. I sincerly doubt there are many people playing Starcraft with a view to become pro. If the foreign scene is so ungrateful to the viewers and the organisers giving them a shielded enviorment where they have a shot at winning something that this shameful display is what they come up with I have zero interest in keeping it alive. Die, and I will still watch my GSL and Proleague and play my ladder games.
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On November 03 2015 23:14 Nixer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:36 Zealously wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. It certainly does show a lack of competitive integrity. Since people (casters) were drumming up Lilbow's achievement of making it to the Global Finals, the show of blatant disinterest afforded the year's grand finale would often be construed as indicative of a general mentality amongst WCS competitors. If this is the best WCS Premier could muster, I don't see that the sole representative being ravaged by rudimentary ling aggression three times in a row (and then saying he didn't practice) would make a great case for the league. I'm really not sure how it would affect the general integrity, perhaps the integrity of the player himself (still somewhat of a stretch) but I don't think that's not of any relevance in broad terms.
We are a small group of friends that gather for tournaments like this to watch and usually we drag along people to watch it with us. This did damage the foreign scenes integrity, this WCS was the last foreing Starcraft we will watch. People showing up to not try would be a huge scandal in any sport, even more when the player is the representative of the entire foreign scene.
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EPT
