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On November 03 2015 23:45 Kerm wrote:Show nested quote +TLO stated plenty of people were willing to practice with him and he declined. I have a lot of respect for TLO as it is a player i follow since WoL beta and his random days, yet a little less since he decided to attack Lilbow publicly on Twitter (however I can understand and forgive why he could not resist the urge to do that). However I find people a little quick on the trigger : - Who was willing to practice with Lilbow ? - When ? - How was the offer turned down ? - Why ? Lots of questions unanswered. How do you spell "hate train" again ?  ps : And yeah, Mill. staff people, come on protect your player a lil' better, some PR advices should have been given (like just cut off from the internet for 2 weeks" ^^).
Are you serious? Who, when, why? What? He had offers for practice and he turned it down, he stated he could not find practice, he lied.
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On November 04 2015 01:07 ddayzy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 23:45 Kerm wrote:TLO stated plenty of people were willing to practice with him and he declined. I have a lot of respect for TLO as it is a player i follow since WoL beta and his random days, yet a little less since he decided to attack Lilbow publicly on Twitter (however I can understand and forgive why he could not resist the urge to do that). However I find people a little quick on the trigger : - Who was willing to practice with Lilbow ? - When ? - How was the offer turned down ? - Why ? Lots of questions unanswered. How do you spell "hate train" again ? ps : And yeah, Mill. staff people, come on protect your player a lil' better, some PR advices should have been given (like just cut off from the internet for 2 weeks" ^^). Are you serious? Who, when, why? What? He had offers for practice and he turned it down, he stated he could not find practice, he lied. If the entire foreign scene could not be botherd to help their one representative practice for the bigest stage you can get on in Starcraft it is unprofessional to the point where they should not be allowed to participate in big tournaments. It is beyond naiv to believe this was the case.
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On November 03 2015 23:45 Kerm wrote:Show nested quote +TLO stated plenty of people were willing to practice with him and he declined. I have a lot of respect for TLO as it is a player i follow since WoL beta and his random days, yet a little less since he decided to attack Lilbow publicly on Twitter (however I can understand and forgive why he could not resist the urge to do that). However I find people a little quick on the trigger : - Who was willing to practice with Lilbow ? - When ? - How was the offer turned down ? - Why ? Lots of questions unanswered. How do you spell "hate train" again ? ps : And yeah, Mill. staff people, come on protect your player a lil' better, some PR advices should have been given (like just cut off from the internet for 2 weeks" ^^).
*private comment not of SGall*
The question is
"what foreigner would turn down the chance to help the only foreign hope?"
It looks like TLO definitely asked if he could help. If lilbow thought the foreign scene couldn't help him and thus declined, then congrats he is one of the most stuck up pricks I have ever known. And he loses to early lings, which any zerg can execute pretty well.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Why would TLO lie about saying people offered to practice with Lilbow?
Lilbow didnt even refute it, he just called him a caster.
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Anyway, Stephano said he is gonna give a shot at WCS 2016 qualifiers... 
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On November 04 2015 00:25 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 00:22 deacon.frost wrote:On November 04 2015 00:10 joon wrote:
This is pretty fucked thanks to lilbow.
I miss Stephano Man, Stephano at his height was such a joy to watch. I remember the EGTL foreigners struggling so hard for their first win in Proleague (which Thorzain got against a Terran Classic), yet Stephano shows up and wins on his first try against herO of all people. Even if he never could take a championship in Korea, he always felt like a serious threat to many Korean players, which is more than I could say for any foreigner nowadays. Remember that foreigners v Koreans teamgame when Stephano stepped in? That was sooo cool
Sadly both happened in his 2nd year. 1st year would be a different (much better) story.
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What's with the entitlement and hysteria? Lilbow doesn't owe anyone anything - except in your minds.
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On November 03 2015 19:29 JayuSC2 wrote:
You guys know that they contacted all the gaming houses in Korea, but they all declined to train HOTS with Lilbow? Non of you guys have been in his situation and aren't even progamers. This is his job and he is doing what is in his best financial interest and best for his future career. His decision was selfish, definitely, but when you really feel you will have no chance of beating a player like Life and no motivation to play a game you don't enjoy anymore, combined with virtually no decent practice partners (I know some offered to help him, but we don't even know who these players were and if they could even take a map off of a player like Life) then it's very understandable.
I agree that he shouldn't have talked about not practicing, he said so to protect his ego, and it's admittedly childish, but people should try to understand him before jumping on the bandwagon and bashing him. What if he had trained hard and spent hours of practicing for this, and then he would've been crushed either way. He saved himself a lot of disappointment and time by not even trying something, which to him, the chances of winning, seemed not worth the effort. It's easy to call it a "loser mentality", but from what he has achieved so far, he is pretty far from having a "loser mentality".
the message of your post is great until at the very end you mention (not verbatim) that "he saved himself [the] disappointment".
i'm going to use an analogy that many gamers can relate with.
someone who believes strongly in their ability while within their peer setting is afraid to lose to people they've never met before. or, similarly, they're afraid of what's beyond their current understanding of the game.
"Why try if i know i'm going to lose anyway." (a made up quote or idea taken out of context, keep in mind)
"I would be good if i actually tried, [but i'm not rn]" are the most usual excuses used to cope with the sentiments of getting written off.
Along the same vein of thinking is,
"I just can't find a team that doesn't suck."
"You [all] have no idea what you're talking about."
again, nothing but excuses. it doesn't say anything, it doesn't offer anything, and it becomes a tendency formed from mentality.
What people are doing and what feels so natural to do is, preying on someone who's throwing out bait and who didn't intend to do so. He is not trolling. He is crumbling and showing more weaknesses than he's capable of showing, and now he's getting crucified and called out for it because (in part) of the expectations we have of him.
It is absolutely not the first time or even one of the very few times that pros or former pros chip in their statements and direct it at players and what they're doing. Please don't act surprised that this is what people can do through social media. It's so easy to do and it's something that shapes our societies.
lol, why would you ever want to watch a movie with your favourite actor if it turned out horrible because they were focused on other projects? why would you ever look forward to watching, aside from seeing how poorly made the next movie might be? If your expectations of an entertainer are shifting this quickly, then they're in danger of just being a novelty, a blip on the map, an experience that's meaningless to you.
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On November 04 2015 01:22 stuchiu wrote:
Why would TLO lie about saying people offered to practice with Lilbow?
Lilbow didnt even refute it, he just called him a caster.
Even if no one offered, he could've asked. Serral, Namshar and ZGL were active at the time, in fact they all played at http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Insomnia_XVII, the same day of the DH qualifiers. If they weren't up to it, surely there must've been someone in the NA region to try his builds against more than two times before the show. His attitude in the pre-game video, the games themselves and the following Twitter/FB messages has remained consistent; dead game, impossible opponents, no motivation besides making an appearance in sunny Cali for the paycheck. Choosing blind Forgeless FE builds twice in a row with and without scouting was just asking for a quick exit.
I'm a Life fan but that was just a waste of everyone's time. I hope Blizzard bans him from DH.
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On November 04 2015 02:14 rotta wrote:
I hope Blizzard bans him from DH.
And this my friends is why Blizzard is and has always been so right not to listen to the "community".
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On November 04 2015 02:20 Nebuchad wrote:And this my friends is why Blizzard is and has always been so right not to listen to the "community".
Yeah, I wasn't serious with that. It isn't Kespa after all.
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On November 04 2015 01:02 ddayzy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:44 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:21 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. Just from the SC2 scene in Norway I can tell you that new people do start watching SC2 and some people quite. I assume it's the same everywhere. You put to much faith in the drama, I don't hate Lillbow, I just don't care anymore. He really did show to the world that foreigners don't belong on the big stage. I used to defend foreigners getting a region locked tournament but after this I really can't come up with a singel argument for keeping it. It just seem like a charity. I know that foreigners are not as good as koreans but I did allways imagin the had some heart and passion. Without that, why am I watchign them play? I can't think of a singel reason to watch them. I don't want Lillbow to lose, I don't care if he wins or loses to be honest. 1) you're making a terrible generalization by saying all foreigners have no passion just because the actions of 1 guy. 2) I believe he showed that foreigners DO belong on the big stage. Lilbow didn't make the system and therefore can't be faulted by any perceived unfairness. Btw, I think saying the system is rigged is bullshit. Koreans living in teamhouses have their own advantages living and training in Korea and they can compete in several foreign tournaments to get wcs points. 3) why watch foreigners? I dunno, maybe like me, you're not an elitist. I think I can learn a lot from low level foreign gm. What's the difference? I like foreigners because I can relate to them. They do more fan interaction, interviews in English etc. etc. 4) why have wcs na and eu? Because region locked wcs makes it possible to go pro outside of Korea and keep the foreign dream alive. All those diamond players trying to hit masters, the master players hoping to hit gm, and the gm players trying to go pro. That's what makes the scene. Without it, sc2 would die even quicker. edit: On November 03 2015 22:36 Zealously wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. It certainly does show a lack of competitive integrity. Since people (casters) were drumming up Lilbow's achievement of making it to the Global Finals, the show of blatant disinterest afforded the year's grand finale would often be construed as indicative of a general mentality amongst WCS competitors. If this is the best WCS Premier could muster, I don't see that the sole representative being ravaged by rudimentary ling aggression three times in a row (and then saying he didn't practice) would make a great case for the league. They should drum up his achievement as it was remarkable. Competitive integrity, big words with a lot of potential interpretations. IMO, not practicing doesn't harm the competitive integrity. Match fixing does. Keep in mind, this is a very isolated incident and it's the first time he's done it. Most people competing in wcs practice a lot, otherwise they likely wouldn't make it very far (nevermind to the global finals). 1. It's a observation based on the actions of the REPRESENTATIV of foreign starcraft at the most important tournament in Starcraft. It's the image he presented of foreign Starcraft to the world and he draged it further down by saying that nobody would practice with him, how unprofessional does that sound? What do you think the koreans or people watching for the first time think about foreign Starcraft after this? 2. The system is rigged, you can not seriously be debating this? If Lilbow had to compete versus the koreans who spot he took only to not practice he would not have gotten that far. The very least he could to for all the free money and wins he got was to try his hardest. It is the equivilent to having the winner of the scottish league play the winner of Premier League for the Premier League title. One team had a much easier road then the other. 3. Heh I love people using the word elitist, is it supose to be a insult? I general people prefer to watch people who are better at things over those worse at it. So you relate to Lilbows attitude? Giving up, no respect for fans tournament host and other players, not preparing not caring. Those are the things you can relate to? 4. I sincerly doubt there are many people playing Starcraft with a view to become pro. If the foreign scene is so ungrateful to the viewers and the organisers giving them a shielded enviorment where they have a shot at winning something that this shameful display is what they come up with I have zero interest in keeping it alive. Die, and I will still watch my GSL and Proleague and play my ladder games.
1)Lilbow isn't the representative of foreign sc2, certainly not official. As it says on his twitter, he's just a crazy dood spamming stalkers. 1 year ago nobody knew him but his mother. 6 months ago he was mentioned in a long list of "has potential." This is part of the problem. People with unreasonable expectations.
2) I can seriously debate it. Talking like your opinions are facts won't get you far. Koreans players grow up and train in a different environment. It's not fair to say x,y,z Korean could beat Lilbow.
3)I didn't mean it to be insulting. I believe that's the correct use of the word. It's your right to say you only want to watch PL and GSL. I still believe that's an elitist attitude. NA and EU scenes have a lot to offer which you are ignoring.
4)Tell that to all the masters and gm players with more than 1,500 games this season. Again with your generalizations about the foreign scene...
You don't sound like someone who cares about the growth of sc2.
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On November 03 2015 22:44 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:21 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. Just from the SC2 scene in Norway I can tell you that new people do start watching SC2 and some people quite. I assume it's the same everywhere. You put to much faith in the drama, I don't hate Lillbow, I just don't care anymore. He really did show to the world that foreigners don't belong on the big stage. I used to defend foreigners getting a region locked tournament but after this I really can't come up with a singel argument for keeping it. It just seem like a charity. I know that foreigners are not as good as koreans but I did allways imagin the had some heart and passion. Without that, why am I watchign them play? I can't think of a singel reason to watch them. I don't want Lillbow to lose, I don't care if he wins or loses to be honest. 1) you're making a terrible generalization by saying all foreigners have no passion just because the actions of 1 guy. 2) I believe he showed that foreigners DO belong on the big stage. Lilbow didn't make the system and therefore can't be faulted by any perceived unfairness. Btw, I think saying the system is rigged is bullshit. Koreans living in teamhouses have their own advantages living and training in Korea and they can compete in several foreign tournaments to get wcs points. 3) why watch foreigners? I dunno, maybe like me, you're not an elitist. I think I can learn a lot from low level foreign gm. What's the difference? I like foreigners because I can relate to them. They do more fan interaction, interviews in English etc. etc. 4) why have wcs na and eu? Because region locked wcs makes it possible to go pro outside of Korea and keep the foreign dream alive. All those diamond players trying to hit masters, the master players hoping to hit gm, and the gm players trying to go pro. That's what makes the scene. Without it, sc2 would die even quicker. edit: Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 22:36 Zealously wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. It certainly does show a lack of competitive integrity. Since people (casters) were drumming up Lilbow's achievement of making it to the Global Finals, the show of blatant disinterest afforded the year's grand finale would often be construed as indicative of a general mentality amongst WCS competitors. If this is the best WCS Premier could muster, I don't see that the sole representative being ravaged by rudimentary ling aggression three times in a row (and then saying he didn't practice) would make a great case for the league. They should drum up his achievement as it was remarkable. Competitive integrity, big words with a lot of potential interpretations. IMO, not practicing doesn't harm the competitive integrity. Match fixing does. Keep in mind, this is a very isolated incident and it's the first time he's done it. Most people competing in wcs practice a lot, otherwise they likely wouldn't make it very far (nevermind to the global finals).
I think the point is, people new to SC2 are much more likely to shrug their shoulders at Lilbow and ignore foreign events if that's how much they care about the game. Instead they'll stick with the 15 players who put on good shows and assume the place to watch them is GSL / PL / Korean events.
This was a mentality a lot of people had for *not* watching foreign events before they started inviting a few Koreans after all.
Also, I'm glad the Stephano comparisons came up, because it was really obvious from peak to near-retirment (and comeback) Stephano that despite all his bluster he really did put work into the game. He just wanted to come off as this super-gifted genius at WoL (which I suppose he was). Lilbow trying to copy that attitude without the results (and secret preparation) just doesn't seem to be working out for him lol.
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On November 04 2015 02:28 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 01:02 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:44 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:21 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. Just from the SC2 scene in Norway I can tell you that new people do start watching SC2 and some people quite. I assume it's the same everywhere. You put to much faith in the drama, I don't hate Lillbow, I just don't care anymore. He really did show to the world that foreigners don't belong on the big stage. I used to defend foreigners getting a region locked tournament but after this I really can't come up with a singel argument for keeping it. It just seem like a charity. I know that foreigners are not as good as koreans but I did allways imagin the had some heart and passion. Without that, why am I watchign them play? I can't think of a singel reason to watch them. I don't want Lillbow to lose, I don't care if he wins or loses to be honest. 1) you're making a terrible generalization by saying all foreigners have no passion just because the actions of 1 guy. 2) I believe he showed that foreigners DO belong on the big stage. Lilbow didn't make the system and therefore can't be faulted by any perceived unfairness. Btw, I think saying the system is rigged is bullshit. Koreans living in teamhouses have their own advantages living and training in Korea and they can compete in several foreign tournaments to get wcs points. 3) why watch foreigners? I dunno, maybe like me, you're not an elitist. I think I can learn a lot from low level foreign gm. What's the difference? I like foreigners because I can relate to them. They do more fan interaction, interviews in English etc. etc. 4) why have wcs na and eu? Because region locked wcs makes it possible to go pro outside of Korea and keep the foreign dream alive. All those diamond players trying to hit masters, the master players hoping to hit gm, and the gm players trying to go pro. That's what makes the scene. Without it, sc2 would die even quicker. edit: On November 03 2015 22:36 Zealously wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. It certainly does show a lack of competitive integrity. Since people (casters) were drumming up Lilbow's achievement of making it to the Global Finals, the show of blatant disinterest afforded the year's grand finale would often be construed as indicative of a general mentality amongst WCS competitors. If this is the best WCS Premier could muster, I don't see that the sole representative being ravaged by rudimentary ling aggression three times in a row (and then saying he didn't practice) would make a great case for the league. They should drum up his achievement as it was remarkable. Competitive integrity, big words with a lot of potential interpretations. IMO, not practicing doesn't harm the competitive integrity. Match fixing does. Keep in mind, this is a very isolated incident and it's the first time he's done it. Most people competing in wcs practice a lot, otherwise they likely wouldn't make it very far (nevermind to the global finals). 1. It's a observation based on the actions of the REPRESENTATIV of foreign starcraft at the most important tournament in Starcraft. It's the image he presented of foreign Starcraft to the world and he draged it further down by saying that nobody would practice with him, how unprofessional does that sound? What do you think the koreans or people watching for the first time think about foreign Starcraft after this? 2. The system is rigged, you can not seriously be debating this? If Lilbow had to compete versus the koreans who spot he took only to not practice he would not have gotten that far. The very least he could to for all the free money and wins he got was to try his hardest. It is the equivilent to having the winner of the scottish league play the winner of Premier League for the Premier League title. One team had a much easier road then the other. 3. Heh I love people using the word elitist, is it supose to be a insult? I general people prefer to watch people who are better at things over those worse at it. So you relate to Lilbows attitude? Giving up, no respect for fans tournament host and other players, not preparing not caring. Those are the things you can relate to? 4. I sincerly doubt there are many people playing Starcraft with a view to become pro. If the foreign scene is so ungrateful to the viewers and the organisers giving them a shielded enviorment where they have a shot at winning something that this shameful display is what they come up with I have zero interest in keeping it alive. Die, and I will still watch my GSL and Proleague and play my ladder games. 1)Lilbow isn't the representative of foreign sc2, certainly not official. As it says on his twitter, he's just a crazy dood spamming stalkers. 1 year ago nobody knew him but his mother. 6 months ago he was mentioned in a long list of "has potential." This is part of the problem. People with unreasonable expectations. 2) I can seriously debate it. Talking like your opinions are facts won't get you far. Koreans players grow up and train in a different environment. It's not fair to say x,y,z Korean could beat Lilbow. 3)I didn't mean it to be insulting. I believe that's the correct use of the word. It's your right to say you only want to watch PL and GSL. I still believe that's an elitist attitude. NA and EU scenes have a lot to offer which you are ignoring. 4)Tell that to all the masters and gm players with more than 1,500 games this season. Again with your generalizations about the foreign scene... You don't sound like someone who cares about the growth of sc2.
1. Yes he is, when he gets on that stage he is. This is the biggest Starcraft tournament with people who never normaly watch watching. He is the only foreigner on that stage and he is supose to be the best which makes him the face of foreign Starcraft. Many koreans do not watch foreign tournaments except this one and he is the one they see.This is what they see. If it's offical or not is completly irrelevant, it is the way it will be viewed and how it will be judged.
Unreasonable expectations? My only expectation was that he actually did his best to prepare and win, is that expect to much of someone?
2. No you can't and you aren't. Why they are better is completly irrelevant. The fact is that they are better and Lilbow is shielded against better competition. Thus giving him a easier road to a competition and easy price money.
3. What do they offer?
4. I'm not taking a wild stab in the dark at this. I am one of those masters players and I have talked to several, master and gm, and non of the ones were aspiring to become professionals. It's like chess, we like to improve and compete but most us are not planning on doing it for a living.
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On November 04 2015 02:44 ddayzy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 02:28 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 04 2015 01:02 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:44 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:21 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. Just from the SC2 scene in Norway I can tell you that new people do start watching SC2 and some people quite. I assume it's the same everywhere. You put to much faith in the drama, I don't hate Lillbow, I just don't care anymore. He really did show to the world that foreigners don't belong on the big stage. I used to defend foreigners getting a region locked tournament but after this I really can't come up with a singel argument for keeping it. It just seem like a charity. I know that foreigners are not as good as koreans but I did allways imagin the had some heart and passion. Without that, why am I watchign them play? I can't think of a singel reason to watch them. I don't want Lillbow to lose, I don't care if he wins or loses to be honest. 1) you're making a terrible generalization by saying all foreigners have no passion just because the actions of 1 guy. 2) I believe he showed that foreigners DO belong on the big stage. Lilbow didn't make the system and therefore can't be faulted by any perceived unfairness. Btw, I think saying the system is rigged is bullshit. Koreans living in teamhouses have their own advantages living and training in Korea and they can compete in several foreign tournaments to get wcs points. 3) why watch foreigners? I dunno, maybe like me, you're not an elitist. I think I can learn a lot from low level foreign gm. What's the difference? I like foreigners because I can relate to them. They do more fan interaction, interviews in English etc. etc. 4) why have wcs na and eu? Because region locked wcs makes it possible to go pro outside of Korea and keep the foreign dream alive. All those diamond players trying to hit masters, the master players hoping to hit gm, and the gm players trying to go pro. That's what makes the scene. Without it, sc2 would die even quicker. edit: On November 03 2015 22:36 Zealously wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. It certainly does show a lack of competitive integrity. Since people (casters) were drumming up Lilbow's achievement of making it to the Global Finals, the show of blatant disinterest afforded the year's grand finale would often be construed as indicative of a general mentality amongst WCS competitors. If this is the best WCS Premier could muster, I don't see that the sole representative being ravaged by rudimentary ling aggression three times in a row (and then saying he didn't practice) would make a great case for the league. They should drum up his achievement as it was remarkable. Competitive integrity, big words with a lot of potential interpretations. IMO, not practicing doesn't harm the competitive integrity. Match fixing does. Keep in mind, this is a very isolated incident and it's the first time he's done it. Most people competing in wcs practice a lot, otherwise they likely wouldn't make it very far (nevermind to the global finals). 1. It's a observation based on the actions of the REPRESENTATIV of foreign starcraft at the most important tournament in Starcraft. It's the image he presented of foreign Starcraft to the world and he draged it further down by saying that nobody would practice with him, how unprofessional does that sound? What do you think the koreans or people watching for the first time think about foreign Starcraft after this? 2. The system is rigged, you can not seriously be debating this? If Lilbow had to compete versus the koreans who spot he took only to not practice he would not have gotten that far. The very least he could to for all the free money and wins he got was to try his hardest. It is the equivilent to having the winner of the scottish league play the winner of Premier League for the Premier League title. One team had a much easier road then the other. 3. Heh I love people using the word elitist, is it supose to be a insult? I general people prefer to watch people who are better at things over those worse at it. So you relate to Lilbows attitude? Giving up, no respect for fans tournament host and other players, not preparing not caring. Those are the things you can relate to? 4. I sincerly doubt there are many people playing Starcraft with a view to become pro. If the foreign scene is so ungrateful to the viewers and the organisers giving them a shielded enviorment where they have a shot at winning something that this shameful display is what they come up with I have zero interest in keeping it alive. Die, and I will still watch my GSL and Proleague and play my ladder games. 1)Lilbow isn't the representative of foreign sc2, certainly not official. As it says on his twitter, he's just a crazy dood spamming stalkers. 1 year ago nobody knew him but his mother. 6 months ago he was mentioned in a long list of "has potential." This is part of the problem. People with unreasonable expectations. 2) I can seriously debate it. Talking like your opinions are facts won't get you far. Koreans players grow up and train in a different environment. It's not fair to say x,y,z Korean could beat Lilbow. 3)I didn't mean it to be insulting. I believe that's the correct use of the word. It's your right to say you only want to watch PL and GSL. I still believe that's an elitist attitude. NA and EU scenes have a lot to offer which you are ignoring. 4)Tell that to all the masters and gm players with more than 1,500 games this season. Again with your generalizations about the foreign scene... You don't sound like someone who cares about the growth of sc2. 1. Yes he is, when he gets on that stage he is. This is the biggest Starcraft tournament with people who never normaly watch watching. He is the only foreigner on that stage and he is supose to be the best which makes him the face of foreign Starcraft. Many koreans do not watch foreign tournaments except this one and he is the one they see.This is what they see. If it's offical or not is completly irrelevant, it is the way it will be viewed and how it will be judged. Unreasonable expectations? My only expectation was that he actually did his best to prepare and win, is that expect to much of someone?
So if he prepared all day everyday for the last month and the games looked like that, you would feel great right now.
You're mad because "foreign starcraft is embarrassed". You've got to ask yourself what exactly it was that was embarrassing. You've got to question the serious face that you make when you pretend that the games looking bad had absolutely no influence on the situation looking bad, because it makes you look either deluded or dishonest. And that goes for plenty of you.
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On November 04 2015 02:56 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 02:44 ddayzy wrote:On November 04 2015 02:28 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 04 2015 01:02 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:44 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:21 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. Just from the SC2 scene in Norway I can tell you that new people do start watching SC2 and some people quite. I assume it's the same everywhere. You put to much faith in the drama, I don't hate Lillbow, I just don't care anymore. He really did show to the world that foreigners don't belong on the big stage. I used to defend foreigners getting a region locked tournament but after this I really can't come up with a singel argument for keeping it. It just seem like a charity. I know that foreigners are not as good as koreans but I did allways imagin the had some heart and passion. Without that, why am I watchign them play? I can't think of a singel reason to watch them. I don't want Lillbow to lose, I don't care if he wins or loses to be honest. 1) you're making a terrible generalization by saying all foreigners have no passion just because the actions of 1 guy. 2) I believe he showed that foreigners DO belong on the big stage. Lilbow didn't make the system and therefore can't be faulted by any perceived unfairness. Btw, I think saying the system is rigged is bullshit. Koreans living in teamhouses have their own advantages living and training in Korea and they can compete in several foreign tournaments to get wcs points. 3) why watch foreigners? I dunno, maybe like me, you're not an elitist. I think I can learn a lot from low level foreign gm. What's the difference? I like foreigners because I can relate to them. They do more fan interaction, interviews in English etc. etc. 4) why have wcs na and eu? Because region locked wcs makes it possible to go pro outside of Korea and keep the foreign dream alive. All those diamond players trying to hit masters, the master players hoping to hit gm, and the gm players trying to go pro. That's what makes the scene. Without it, sc2 would die even quicker. edit: On November 03 2015 22:36 Zealously wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. It certainly does show a lack of competitive integrity. Since people (casters) were drumming up Lilbow's achievement of making it to the Global Finals, the show of blatant disinterest afforded the year's grand finale would often be construed as indicative of a general mentality amongst WCS competitors. If this is the best WCS Premier could muster, I don't see that the sole representative being ravaged by rudimentary ling aggression three times in a row (and then saying he didn't practice) would make a great case for the league. They should drum up his achievement as it was remarkable. Competitive integrity, big words with a lot of potential interpretations. IMO, not practicing doesn't harm the competitive integrity. Match fixing does. Keep in mind, this is a very isolated incident and it's the first time he's done it. Most people competing in wcs practice a lot, otherwise they likely wouldn't make it very far (nevermind to the global finals). 1. It's a observation based on the actions of the REPRESENTATIV of foreign starcraft at the most important tournament in Starcraft. It's the image he presented of foreign Starcraft to the world and he draged it further down by saying that nobody would practice with him, how unprofessional does that sound? What do you think the koreans or people watching for the first time think about foreign Starcraft after this? 2. The system is rigged, you can not seriously be debating this? If Lilbow had to compete versus the koreans who spot he took only to not practice he would not have gotten that far. The very least he could to for all the free money and wins he got was to try his hardest. It is the equivilent to having the winner of the scottish league play the winner of Premier League for the Premier League title. One team had a much easier road then the other. 3. Heh I love people using the word elitist, is it supose to be a insult? I general people prefer to watch people who are better at things over those worse at it. So you relate to Lilbows attitude? Giving up, no respect for fans tournament host and other players, not preparing not caring. Those are the things you can relate to? 4. I sincerly doubt there are many people playing Starcraft with a view to become pro. If the foreign scene is so ungrateful to the viewers and the organisers giving them a shielded enviorment where they have a shot at winning something that this shameful display is what they come up with I have zero interest in keeping it alive. Die, and I will still watch my GSL and Proleague and play my ladder games. 1)Lilbow isn't the representative of foreign sc2, certainly not official. As it says on his twitter, he's just a crazy dood spamming stalkers. 1 year ago nobody knew him but his mother. 6 months ago he was mentioned in a long list of "has potential." This is part of the problem. People with unreasonable expectations. 2) I can seriously debate it. Talking like your opinions are facts won't get you far. Koreans players grow up and train in a different environment. It's not fair to say x,y,z Korean could beat Lilbow. 3)I didn't mean it to be insulting. I believe that's the correct use of the word. It's your right to say you only want to watch PL and GSL. I still believe that's an elitist attitude. NA and EU scenes have a lot to offer which you are ignoring. 4)Tell that to all the masters and gm players with more than 1,500 games this season. Again with your generalizations about the foreign scene... You don't sound like someone who cares about the growth of sc2. 1. Yes he is, when he gets on that stage he is. This is the biggest Starcraft tournament with people who never normaly watch watching. He is the only foreigner on that stage and he is supose to be the best which makes him the face of foreign Starcraft. Many koreans do not watch foreign tournaments except this one and he is the one they see.This is what they see. If it's offical or not is completly irrelevant, it is the way it will be viewed and how it will be judged. Unreasonable expectations? My only expectation was that he actually did his best to prepare and win, is that expect to much of someone? So if he prepared all day everyday for the last month and the games looked like that, you would feel great right now. You're mad because "foreign starcraft is embarrassed". You've got to ask yourself what exactly it was that was embarrassing. You've got to question the serious face that you make when you pretend that the games looking bad had absolutely no influence on the situation looking bad, because it makes you look either deluded or dishonest. And that goes for plenty of you.
I have no idea how such a easy concept is so hard for you. Noboy expected him to win, even him taking a game of Life would have been a suprise. What was expected of him was to try, which goes to show just how low the expectations were and he stil managed to fall short. Nobody were expecting foreign Starcraft to be better then korean but to show you worked at least 1/10 as hard as the koreans would have been greatly appreciated. To show you don't give a singel fuck about this torunament and how it makes foreign Starcraft look is insulting to everyone involved.
If you still don't understand I'm afraid I'm running out of teaspoons.
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On November 04 2015 02:56 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 02:44 ddayzy wrote:On November 04 2015 02:28 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 04 2015 01:02 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:44 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:21 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. Just from the SC2 scene in Norway I can tell you that new people do start watching SC2 and some people quite. I assume it's the same everywhere. You put to much faith in the drama, I don't hate Lillbow, I just don't care anymore. He really did show to the world that foreigners don't belong on the big stage. I used to defend foreigners getting a region locked tournament but after this I really can't come up with a singel argument for keeping it. It just seem like a charity. I know that foreigners are not as good as koreans but I did allways imagin the had some heart and passion. Without that, why am I watchign them play? I can't think of a singel reason to watch them. I don't want Lillbow to lose, I don't care if he wins or loses to be honest. 1) you're making a terrible generalization by saying all foreigners have no passion just because the actions of 1 guy. 2) I believe he showed that foreigners DO belong on the big stage. Lilbow didn't make the system and therefore can't be faulted by any perceived unfairness. Btw, I think saying the system is rigged is bullshit. Koreans living in teamhouses have their own advantages living and training in Korea and they can compete in several foreign tournaments to get wcs points. 3) why watch foreigners? I dunno, maybe like me, you're not an elitist. I think I can learn a lot from low level foreign gm. What's the difference? I like foreigners because I can relate to them. They do more fan interaction, interviews in English etc. etc. 4) why have wcs na and eu? Because region locked wcs makes it possible to go pro outside of Korea and keep the foreign dream alive. All those diamond players trying to hit masters, the master players hoping to hit gm, and the gm players trying to go pro. That's what makes the scene. Without it, sc2 would die even quicker. edit: On November 03 2015 22:36 Zealously wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. It certainly does show a lack of competitive integrity. Since people (casters) were drumming up Lilbow's achievement of making it to the Global Finals, the show of blatant disinterest afforded the year's grand finale would often be construed as indicative of a general mentality amongst WCS competitors. If this is the best WCS Premier could muster, I don't see that the sole representative being ravaged by rudimentary ling aggression three times in a row (and then saying he didn't practice) would make a great case for the league. They should drum up his achievement as it was remarkable. Competitive integrity, big words with a lot of potential interpretations. IMO, not practicing doesn't harm the competitive integrity. Match fixing does. Keep in mind, this is a very isolated incident and it's the first time he's done it. Most people competing in wcs practice a lot, otherwise they likely wouldn't make it very far (nevermind to the global finals). 1. It's a observation based on the actions of the REPRESENTATIV of foreign starcraft at the most important tournament in Starcraft. It's the image he presented of foreign Starcraft to the world and he draged it further down by saying that nobody would practice with him, how unprofessional does that sound? What do you think the koreans or people watching for the first time think about foreign Starcraft after this? 2. The system is rigged, you can not seriously be debating this? If Lilbow had to compete versus the koreans who spot he took only to not practice he would not have gotten that far. The very least he could to for all the free money and wins he got was to try his hardest. It is the equivilent to having the winner of the scottish league play the winner of Premier League for the Premier League title. One team had a much easier road then the other. 3. Heh I love people using the word elitist, is it supose to be a insult? I general people prefer to watch people who are better at things over those worse at it. So you relate to Lilbows attitude? Giving up, no respect for fans tournament host and other players, not preparing not caring. Those are the things you can relate to? 4. I sincerly doubt there are many people playing Starcraft with a view to become pro. If the foreign scene is so ungrateful to the viewers and the organisers giving them a shielded enviorment where they have a shot at winning something that this shameful display is what they come up with I have zero interest in keeping it alive. Die, and I will still watch my GSL and Proleague and play my ladder games. 1)Lilbow isn't the representative of foreign sc2, certainly not official. As it says on his twitter, he's just a crazy dood spamming stalkers. 1 year ago nobody knew him but his mother. 6 months ago he was mentioned in a long list of "has potential." This is part of the problem. People with unreasonable expectations. 2) I can seriously debate it. Talking like your opinions are facts won't get you far. Koreans players grow up and train in a different environment. It's not fair to say x,y,z Korean could beat Lilbow. 3)I didn't mean it to be insulting. I believe that's the correct use of the word. It's your right to say you only want to watch PL and GSL. I still believe that's an elitist attitude. NA and EU scenes have a lot to offer which you are ignoring. 4)Tell that to all the masters and gm players with more than 1,500 games this season. Again with your generalizations about the foreign scene... You don't sound like someone who cares about the growth of sc2. 1. Yes he is, when he gets on that stage he is. This is the biggest Starcraft tournament with people who never normaly watch watching. He is the only foreigner on that stage and he is supose to be the best which makes him the face of foreign Starcraft. Many koreans do not watch foreign tournaments except this one and he is the one they see.This is what they see. If it's offical or not is completly irrelevant, it is the way it will be viewed and how it will be judged. Unreasonable expectations? My only expectation was that he actually did his best to prepare and win, is that expect to much of someone? So if he prepared all day everyday for the last month and the games looked like that, you would feel great right now. You're mad because "foreign starcraft is embarrassed". You've got to ask yourself what exactly it was that was embarrassing. You've got to question the serious face that you make when you pretend that the games looking bad had absolutely no influence on the situation looking bad, because it makes you look either deluded or dishonest. And that goes for plenty of you.
so if the foreigners themselves think they have no chance then why have foreigners at all in the tournament?
This Tournament gave the best foreigner the chance to compete with the best on the bigggest stage and he didn't even try.
isn't that a statement that the system is bad and there shouldn't be foreigners at blizzcon? (Not that i support that)
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Your claim is perfectly clear, but I guess if it makes you feel superior to pretend I don't get it, go ahead.
The answer is, you are able to get away with the claim that he didn't try because the games looked bad. If he had said exactly what he has said and Life had played three macro games, ultimately winning due to being better, that wouldn't be embarrassing for the foreign scene. At the most Lilbow gets a slap on the wrist for venting on twitter after a loss, which everyone ever has done. If Lilbow had said absolutely nothing and Life did that to him, that would still be embarrassing for the foreign scene. They sent their best, he got rekt in a ridiculous fashion.
You are literally arguing that "foreign scene is embarrassed" and "foreign player produces embarrassing games" have no connection to each other. I don't know what else to say.
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On November 04 2015 02:44 ddayzy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 02:28 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 04 2015 01:02 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:44 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:21 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. Just from the SC2 scene in Norway I can tell you that new people do start watching SC2 and some people quite. I assume it's the same everywhere. You put to much faith in the drama, I don't hate Lillbow, I just don't care anymore. He really did show to the world that foreigners don't belong on the big stage. I used to defend foreigners getting a region locked tournament but after this I really can't come up with a singel argument for keeping it. It just seem like a charity. I know that foreigners are not as good as koreans but I did allways imagin the had some heart and passion. Without that, why am I watchign them play? I can't think of a singel reason to watch them. I don't want Lillbow to lose, I don't care if he wins or loses to be honest. 1) you're making a terrible generalization by saying all foreigners have no passion just because the actions of 1 guy. 2) I believe he showed that foreigners DO belong on the big stage. Lilbow didn't make the system and therefore can't be faulted by any perceived unfairness. Btw, I think saying the system is rigged is bullshit. Koreans living in teamhouses have their own advantages living and training in Korea and they can compete in several foreign tournaments to get wcs points. 3) why watch foreigners? I dunno, maybe like me, you're not an elitist. I think I can learn a lot from low level foreign gm. What's the difference? I like foreigners because I can relate to them. They do more fan interaction, interviews in English etc. etc. 4) why have wcs na and eu? Because region locked wcs makes it possible to go pro outside of Korea and keep the foreign dream alive. All those diamond players trying to hit masters, the master players hoping to hit gm, and the gm players trying to go pro. That's what makes the scene. Without it, sc2 would die even quicker. edit: On November 03 2015 22:36 Zealously wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
"1100+ comments on screddit cause i got cheesed out of a tournament"
Really? Because he got cheesed? Does he actually not get why people are disappointed in him?
That's one heck of a defense mechanism he's got there... that psychological barrier keeping the truth out must be stronger than a planetary fortress... Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent. To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. It certainly does show a lack of competitive integrity. Since people (casters) were drumming up Lilbow's achievement of making it to the Global Finals, the show of blatant disinterest afforded the year's grand finale would often be construed as indicative of a general mentality amongst WCS competitors. If this is the best WCS Premier could muster, I don't see that the sole representative being ravaged by rudimentary ling aggression three times in a row (and then saying he didn't practice) would make a great case for the league. They should drum up his achievement as it was remarkable. Competitive integrity, big words with a lot of potential interpretations. IMO, not practicing doesn't harm the competitive integrity. Match fixing does. Keep in mind, this is a very isolated incident and it's the first time he's done it. Most people competing in wcs practice a lot, otherwise they likely wouldn't make it very far (nevermind to the global finals). 1. It's a observation based on the actions of the REPRESENTATIV of foreign starcraft at the most important tournament in Starcraft. It's the image he presented of foreign Starcraft to the world and he draged it further down by saying that nobody would practice with him, how unprofessional does that sound? What do you think the koreans or people watching for the first time think about foreign Starcraft after this? 2. The system is rigged, you can not seriously be debating this? If Lilbow had to compete versus the koreans who spot he took only to not practice he would not have gotten that far. The very least he could to for all the free money and wins he got was to try his hardest. It is the equivilent to having the winner of the scottish league play the winner of Premier League for the Premier League title. One team had a much easier road then the other. 3. Heh I love people using the word elitist, is it supose to be a insult? I general people prefer to watch people who are better at things over those worse at it. So you relate to Lilbows attitude? Giving up, no respect for fans tournament host and other players, not preparing not caring. Those are the things you can relate to? 4. I sincerly doubt there are many people playing Starcraft with a view to become pro. If the foreign scene is so ungrateful to the viewers and the organisers giving them a shielded enviorment where they have a shot at winning something that this shameful display is what they come up with I have zero interest in keeping it alive. Die, and I will still watch my GSL and Proleague and play my ladder games. 1)Lilbow isn't the representative of foreign sc2, certainly not official. As it says on his twitter, he's just a crazy dood spamming stalkers. 1 year ago nobody knew him but his mother. 6 months ago he was mentioned in a long list of "has potential." This is part of the problem. People with unreasonable expectations. 2) I can seriously debate it. Talking like your opinions are facts won't get you far. Koreans players grow up and train in a different environment. It's not fair to say x,y,z Korean could beat Lilbow. 3)I didn't mean it to be insulting. I believe that's the correct use of the word. It's your right to say you only want to watch PL and GSL. I still believe that's an elitist attitude. NA and EU scenes have a lot to offer which you are ignoring. 4)Tell that to all the masters and gm players with more than 1,500 games this season. Again with your generalizations about the foreign scene... You don't sound like someone who cares about the growth of sc2. 1. Yes he is, when he gets on that stage he is. This is the biggest Starcraft tournament with people who never normaly watch watching. He is the only foreigner on that stage and he is supose to be the best which makes him the face of foreign Starcraft. Many koreans do not watch foreign tournaments except this one and he is the one they see.This is what they see. If it's offical or not is completly irrelevant, it is the way it will be viewed and how it will be judged. Unreasonable expectations? My only expectation was that he actually did his best to prepare and win, is that expect to much of someone? 2. No you can't and you aren't. Why they are better is completly irrelevant. The fact is that they are better and Lilbow is shielded against better competition. Thus giving him a easier road to a competition and easy price money. 3. What do they offer? 4. I'm not taking a wild stab in the dark at this. I am one of those masters players and I have talked to several, master and gm, and non of the ones were aspiring to become professionals. It's like chess, we like to improve and compete but most us are not planning on doing it for a living.
1)You're back peddling. You called him "the representative." Now you're saying the foreign representative on that stage which means nothing as he's the only one so that's obvious enough. You say he's "supposed to be the best" which is the unreasonable expectations creeping in. I wouldn't consider him the best foreigner. One of the best, sure, but not the best. I do think it's unreasonable for you to think a pro has to prepare for every tournament (especially in cases with extenuating circumstances). The rest I can agree with. No doubt all eyes were on him and he fucked up.
2)You could say Lilbow is shielded or you could stay Korean players have unfair advantage due to "korean steroids." I know you get what I mean, but just to spell it out. 0 lag kr ladder, team houses, tournaments within driving distance. Oh, and Internet since Lilbow says he doesn't even have good connection in his home.
3)Switch the Korean names with the NA ones and see if anyone can tell the difference. MAYBE, if you were inside the replay you could check for macro mechanics, but from watching a vod REALLY hard.
4)No need to deny yourself your dream. If you want it, go for it. Anyone playing 1,500 games a season might as well be pro (or at least monetize their passion in some way through streaming etc). It's physically impossible to maintain 40 hrs a week job and play that much.
It's strange how you continue to insist Lilbow disgraced foreign sc2 when you say yourself you don't watch it and have "zero interest in keeping it alive."
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On November 04 2015 03:11 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 02:56 Nebuchad wrote:On November 04 2015 02:44 ddayzy wrote:On November 04 2015 02:28 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 04 2015 01:02 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:44 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:21 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:
[quote]
Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent.
To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. Just from the SC2 scene in Norway I can tell you that new people do start watching SC2 and some people quite. I assume it's the same everywhere. You put to much faith in the drama, I don't hate Lillbow, I just don't care anymore. He really did show to the world that foreigners don't belong on the big stage. I used to defend foreigners getting a region locked tournament but after this I really can't come up with a singel argument for keeping it. It just seem like a charity. I know that foreigners are not as good as koreans but I did allways imagin the had some heart and passion. Without that, why am I watchign them play? I can't think of a singel reason to watch them. I don't want Lillbow to lose, I don't care if he wins or loses to be honest. 1) you're making a terrible generalization by saying all foreigners have no passion just because the actions of 1 guy. 2) I believe he showed that foreigners DO belong on the big stage. Lilbow didn't make the system and therefore can't be faulted by any perceived unfairness. Btw, I think saying the system is rigged is bullshit. Koreans living in teamhouses have their own advantages living and training in Korea and they can compete in several foreign tournaments to get wcs points. 3) why watch foreigners? I dunno, maybe like me, you're not an elitist. I think I can learn a lot from low level foreign gm. What's the difference? I like foreigners because I can relate to them. They do more fan interaction, interviews in English etc. etc. 4) why have wcs na and eu? Because region locked wcs makes it possible to go pro outside of Korea and keep the foreign dream alive. All those diamond players trying to hit masters, the master players hoping to hit gm, and the gm players trying to go pro. That's what makes the scene. Without it, sc2 would die even quicker. edit: On November 03 2015 22:36 Zealously wrote:On November 03 2015 22:13 TRaFFiC wrote:On November 03 2015 22:06 ddayzy wrote:On November 03 2015 22:03 TRaFFiC wrote:
[quote]
Absolutely because he got cheesed. Do you think we'd be having this discussion if it went 2-3 or 3-2 in his favor and then he tweets that he practiced 2 games? Of course not. People would be praising his talent.
To the people saying this is bad for the scene/foreign scene/unprofessional I say to you remember Bobby Fischer. This guy would show up to tournaments late constantly, forfeit the first 2 matches in bo5, make extravagant demands about playing conditions, and to top it off he was a Jewish Nazi. Yet, he made Chess very popular. People like him are the lifeblood of the sports they compete it in. People love a good story. I dare you to find one person saying "Oh I didn't like Starcraft befor but now that Lillbow guy said he didn't respect the game paying him enough to even bother trying in the biggest torunament of the year I will definitly start watching". I can find you quite a few people who won't watch WCS again because of what he did. People who don't like sc2 most likely won't watch it regardless. But yes, drama always attracts randoms. I'll definitely make a point of watching his next games. I don't understand why Lilbow not taking the tournament seriously would cause people to not watch wcs? It's easy enough to not watch his matches, though I suspect most everybody will, if not to see him lose. It certainly does show a lack of competitive integrity. Since people (casters) were drumming up Lilbow's achievement of making it to the Global Finals, the show of blatant disinterest afforded the year's grand finale would often be construed as indicative of a general mentality amongst WCS competitors. If this is the best WCS Premier could muster, I don't see that the sole representative being ravaged by rudimentary ling aggression three times in a row (and then saying he didn't practice) would make a great case for the league. They should drum up his achievement as it was remarkable. Competitive integrity, big words with a lot of potential interpretations. IMO, not practicing doesn't harm the competitive integrity. Match fixing does. Keep in mind, this is a very isolated incident and it's the first time he's done it. Most people competing in wcs practice a lot, otherwise they likely wouldn't make it very far (nevermind to the global finals). 1. It's a observation based on the actions of the REPRESENTATIV of foreign starcraft at the most important tournament in Starcraft. It's the image he presented of foreign Starcraft to the world and he draged it further down by saying that nobody would practice with him, how unprofessional does that sound? What do you think the koreans or people watching for the first time think about foreign Starcraft after this? 2. The system is rigged, you can not seriously be debating this? If Lilbow had to compete versus the koreans who spot he took only to not practice he would not have gotten that far. The very least he could to for all the free money and wins he got was to try his hardest. It is the equivilent to having the winner of the scottish league play the winner of Premier League for the Premier League title. One team had a much easier road then the other. 3. Heh I love people using the word elitist, is it supose to be a insult? I general people prefer to watch people who are better at things over those worse at it. So you relate to Lilbows attitude? Giving up, no respect for fans tournament host and other players, not preparing not caring. Those are the things you can relate to? 4. I sincerly doubt there are many people playing Starcraft with a view to become pro. If the foreign scene is so ungrateful to the viewers and the organisers giving them a shielded enviorment where they have a shot at winning something that this shameful display is what they come up with I have zero interest in keeping it alive. Die, and I will still watch my GSL and Proleague and play my ladder games. 1)Lilbow isn't the representative of foreign sc2, certainly not official. As it says on his twitter, he's just a crazy dood spamming stalkers. 1 year ago nobody knew him but his mother. 6 months ago he was mentioned in a long list of "has potential." This is part of the problem. People with unreasonable expectations. 2) I can seriously debate it. Talking like your opinions are facts won't get you far. Koreans players grow up and train in a different environment. It's not fair to say x,y,z Korean could beat Lilbow. 3)I didn't mean it to be insulting. I believe that's the correct use of the word. It's your right to say you only want to watch PL and GSL. I still believe that's an elitist attitude. NA and EU scenes have a lot to offer which you are ignoring. 4)Tell that to all the masters and gm players with more than 1,500 games this season. Again with your generalizations about the foreign scene... You don't sound like someone who cares about the growth of sc2. 1. Yes he is, when he gets on that stage he is. This is the biggest Starcraft tournament with people who never normaly watch watching. He is the only foreigner on that stage and he is supose to be the best which makes him the face of foreign Starcraft. Many koreans do not watch foreign tournaments except this one and he is the one they see.This is what they see. If it's offical or not is completly irrelevant, it is the way it will be viewed and how it will be judged. Unreasonable expectations? My only expectation was that he actually did his best to prepare and win, is that expect to much of someone? So if he prepared all day everyday for the last month and the games looked like that, you would feel great right now. You're mad because "foreign starcraft is embarrassed". You've got to ask yourself what exactly it was that was embarrassing. You've got to question the serious face that you make when you pretend that the games looking bad had absolutely no influence on the situation looking bad, because it makes you look either deluded or dishonest. And that goes for plenty of you. so if the foreigners themselves think they have no chance then why have foreigners at all in the tournament? This Tournament gave the best foreigner the chance to compete with the best on the bigggest stage and he didn't even try. isn't that a statement that the system is bad and there shouldn't be foreigners at blizzcon? (Not that i support that)
First of all, that doesn't answer my post, so, that's one thing.
But I can still answer: you have foreigners in the tournament because that's what the WCS system is about. You create more opportunities for foreigners. You can tell that the system worked because Lilbow had enough opportunities to actually make it to the end, and qualify for the Blizzcon. He was one of the 16 most successful players of the year. Your moment of foreigner pride should have been when he got there; and maybe it was. As far as the system goes, it has worked as it was intended to work.
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EPT
