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Korea (South)227 Posts
Its hard to understand all this attention on Lilbow.
Why are all of us wasting time with a guy who needs to procrastinate in order to salvage whatever is left of his big ass ego?
Its sad to see that foreign SC2 players time and time again seem to just throw away opportunities that many other progamers, both foreign and Korean, would desperately want.
He just wears his mouth on his sleeve, and with this uncanny move of stupidity, is now in my eyes no longer a championship caliber player, but a whiner who despite being presented a gift that many others also wanted, and in terms of mechanical skill and mentality shouldn't really have had it in the first place decided that saving his bloated mentality was more important after losing.
If he had the presence of mind to just keep quiet or say the traditional 'I tried my best, but its unfortunate I couldn't show more", then no flak would have been given.
But yeah, the korean side of me just laughs at this juvenile pro-gamer that can't hold his losses unless he blurts his teenage feelings out into public disgrace.
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Players don't owe shit to anyone. So sick of hearing all those entitled pricks saying X player behaviour is disrespectful towards the fans; or that they should do Y or Z because of shit. People saying Lilbow should have given his spot away if he was not going to prepare well enough. "lack of respect for the most prestogious event of the year", what a load of nonsense....
It's an individual competition. If you get to whichever point you get to, it's because you've earned it, it's the spot you deserve. You don't just hand a spot to someone else, it's not the "Care Bare association for not good enough player that couldn't make it but are nice so let's give them a free spot".
The 17th player on the list is undeserving of even putting a foot in the WCS global 16 men finals. period. That's just what competition is. And any of the 16 players who earned their spot isn't required to do anything else than qualifying to still deserve their spot.
They can still come as unprepared as you may imagine it doesn't take anything from what they did to get there before. They don't even have to practice, which shows how much more e-sports has to go to meet established sports standards in which athletes get fined when they miss training, because it's in their contract and in this case they owe their employer to be present at every training session.
When you are alone competing in an individual competition for a prize it's very different, the tournaments organizers are not your employers and you don't owe them anything else than respecting their rules. You think what Lilbow did is bad for them? It's not. This public shaming is ridiculous.
A player doesn't owe his fans or the viewers anything, it's not like you are doing someone a favour by watching/cheering for him; you do it for yourself to entertain yourself and that's a fair exchange.
A quick 3-0 doesn't sound that shocking vs Life, one of the best Koreans ever, even if Lilbow did practice a lot and lost in similar fashion it would not have been a huge surprise.
But yeah, giving excuses of any kind for loosing in a competition is lame anyway, There is no such thing as a good excuse, the worst player looses and the better player wins; as simple as that. Lilbow was clearly the worst player in this match, so he lost, end of story.
"i'll give Lilbow the benefit of the doubt" ,"You, as a fan of Lilbow, have every right to be upset"
Get off your high horse.
It really seems like you directly came out of a recent South Park episode with all the PC stuff going on.
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Go home Lycan. You're drunk.
seriously though, the sheer emotion in your post is bewildering. Stephano used to brag about how little he prepared too, and I don't remember any witch hunt propaganda back then. The only thing this OP has me wondering is what Lilbow really did to spur you into pitchfork wielding action? And please don't tell me its blatant disregard for your viewing pleasure. No rational adult reacts the way you did because some stranger didn't meet their standards of trying hard.
What an absurd OP.
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So.. Lilbow chose to not practice HOTS, a game he is definitely pretty good at, but instead chose to practice LOTV, which was still in beta and subject to changes before actual release.
In the end he will get crushed in LOTV by any korean who starts to practice LOTV after the actual release when a clear meta will emerge, while he will probably never get to play in another Blizzcon in his career and has alienated most of his fans for good; I hope it was worth it.
I'm just a bit sad that someone a lot more deserving, like Hyun, didn't get his spot, and we, as fans and viewers were robbed of the opportunity to see a real match between 2 real players who lay it on the line, instead of a worthless stand-in who just came to collect his $5000.
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On November 03 2015 14:30 Joedaddy wrote:
Go home Lycan. You're drunk.
seriously though, the sheer emotion in your post is bewildering. Stephano used to brag about how little he prepared too, and I don't remember any witch hunt propaganda back then. The only thing this OP has me wondering is what Lilbow really did to spur you into pitchfork wielding action? And please don't tell me its blatant disregard for your viewing pleasure. No rational adult reacts the way you did because some stranger didn't meet their standards of trying hard.
What an absurd OP.
Stephano was not as big as lilbow.
Lilbow could have made history and then threw it away.
Are you really going to continue to call him LilBonaparte and honor him as a progamer after he showed his "love" for the game? No progamer blames his loss on cheese when he played the game less than a casual. I don't understand how you guys, as fans, think that only unconditional love is your only option. Lilbow, as a public person, has an obligation, yes, he does have an obligation no matter how servile you guys are, to the fans to try to show his best. Never liked Stephano because he kept on saying that he didn't practice either, but notice Stephano actually did play like he practiced a lot and got pretty ok results. I always thought Stephano was half bluffing because he also wanted to let down the guards of his opponent.
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On November 03 2015 14:28 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
Players don't owe shit to anyone. So sick of hearing all those entitled pricks saying X player behaviour is disrespectful towards the fans; or that they should do Y or Z because of shit. People saying Lilbow should have given his spot away if he was not going to prepare well enough. "lack of respect for the most prestogious event of the year", what a load of nonsense....
It's an individual competition. If you get to whichever point you get to, it's because you've earned it, it's the spot you deserve. You don't just hand a spot to someone else, it's not the "Care Bare association for not good enough player that couldn't make it but are nice so let's give them a free spot".
The 17th player on the list is undeserving of even putting a foot in the WCS global 16 men finals. period. That's just what competition is. And any of the 16 players who earned their spot isn't required to do anything else than qualifying to still deserve their spot.
They can still come as unprepared as you may imagine it doesn't take anything from what they did to get there before. They don't even have to practice, which shows how much more e-sports has to go to meet established sports standards in which athletes get fined when they miss training, because it's in their contract and in this case they owe their employer to be present at every training session.
When you are alone competing in an individual competition for a prize it's very different, the tournaments organizers are not your employers and you don't owe them anything else than respecting their rules. You think what Lilbow did is bad for them? It's not. This public shaming is ridiculous.
A player doesn't owe his fans or the viewers anything, it's not like you are doing someone a favour by watching/cheering for him; you do it for yourself to entertain yourself and that's a fair exchange.
A quick 3-0 doesn't sound that shocking vs Life, one of the best Koreans ever, even if Lilbow did practice a lot and lost in similar fashion it would not have been a huge surprise.
But yeah, giving excuses of any kind for loosing in a competition is lame anyway, There is no such thing as a good excuse, the worst player looses and the better player wins; as simple as that. Lilbow was clearly the worst player in this match, so he lost, end of story.
"i'll give Lilbow the benefit of the doubt" ,"You, as a fan of Lilbow, have every right to be upset" get off your high horse. It really seems like you directly came out of a recent South Park episode with all the PC stuff going on.
Oh yeah setting a new record for the quickest elimination in Blizzcon totally deserving to play there lol. I supported lilbow because foreign hope. Lilbow did deserve to play at Blizzcon, and really had a good chance to win vs Life, but he just kicked the bucket on himself and I don't think a guy who played 2 games of hots to prepare deserves a spot in Blizzcon.
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On November 03 2015 14:43 RCCar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 14:30 Joedaddy wrote:
Go home Lycan. You're drunk.
seriously though, the sheer emotion in your post is bewildering. Stephano used to brag about how little he prepared too, and I don't remember any witch hunt propaganda back then. The only thing this OP has me wondering is what Lilbow really did to spur you into pitchfork wielding action? And please don't tell me its blatant disregard for your viewing pleasure. No rational adult reacts the way you did because some stranger didn't meet their standards of trying hard.
What an absurd OP. Are you really going to continue to call him LilBonaparte and honor him as a progamer after he showed his "love" for the game?
Yeah sure.
I mean, I would never call him LilBonaparte, as it is utterly ridiculous, but on the sentiment, yeah.
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If we are going to keep the region lock it would be nice to see WCS points for PL wins.
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Sounds to me more like a sore loser than anything, which only makes it more entertaining for the audience. Not the biggest deal, but then again his critics don't owe him anything either. Taking flak is part and parcel of being in the scene, and he set himself up for it.
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On November 03 2015 13:04 thecrazymunchkin wrote:
To flip this around, consider the fact that there are currently four protosses remaining in the bracket, one of whom Life is guaranteed to play should he beat INnoVation. Why the hell would he reveal anything that he doesn't need to?
Exactly, how could anyone be entitled enough to say Life should take negative ev decisions in order to please the audience?
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Even if he had practiced 18 hours a day with the time he had, he still would have lost to life. So... who cares?
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On November 03 2015 15:13 Foxbat wrote:
Even if he had practiced 18 hours a day with the time he had, he still would have lost to life. So... who cares?
He may have lost or he may have won, we will never know. The point is that foreigners essentially have the system designed to give them the best chances of making it to Blizzon. LilBow was given the chance to play in BlizCon by a combination of this and his own skill, he would never have made it there if Koreans were allowed to play in whatever region they wished.
LilBow ignoring this opportunity reduces the justification for the current system which attempts to promote foreign players. If the foreigners are all going to put in zero effort in the WCS finals at blizzcon, why not let the koreans who will put up a decent show have 16 out of 16 slots? If this is done, the best 16 players are more likely to be playing/getting the money they deserve.
I don't actually want the above scenario at all but events like this make it very hard to argue against.
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On November 03 2015 14:28 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
But yeah, giving excuses of any kind for loosing in a competition is lame anyway, There is no such thing as a good excuse, the worst player looses and the better player wins; as simple as that. Lilbow was clearly the worst player in this match, so he lost, end of story.
You become a champion in your mind long before you do in real life. Not everyone who has that mindset becomes a champion, but no one without that mindset has ever become one (in anything meaningful).
Thus, anytime a champion loses, they externalize why they lost. They believe they are the best, bar none, and the reason they lost isn't because the weren't the best it was an outside factor. You can call it an excuse, but if you make no excuses and just say the other guy is better, then you don't believe in yourself enough to be a champion. You have to know you are the best. And when champions win, they internalize why they won and it reinforces their belief they are the best.
Sports psychology tells us this is the best way for champions to act. Check it out.
Lilbow is a true champion, he believes in himself. He is doing the right thing by externalizing why he lost. And if he lost because he didn't care about HOTS, that is fine too. True champions don't care what anyone else thinks, all that matter is how they see themselves.
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On November 03 2015 14:28 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
Players don't owe shit to anyone. So sick of hearing all those entitled pricks saying X player behaviour is disrespectful towards the fans; or that they should do Y or Z because of shit. People saying Lilbow should have given his spot away if he was not going to prepare well enough. "lack of respect for the most prestogious event of the year", what a load of nonsense....
It's an individual competition. If you get to whichever point you get to, it's because you've earned it, it's the spot you deserve. You don't just hand a spot to someone else, it's not the "Care Bare association for not good enough player that couldn't make it but are nice so let's give them a free spot".
The 17th player on the list is undeserving of even putting a foot in the WCS global 16 men finals. period. That's just what competition is. And any of the 16 players who earned their spot isn't required to do anything else than qualifying to still deserve their spot.
They can still come as unprepared as you may imagine it doesn't take anything from what they did to get there before. They don't even have to practice, which shows how much more e-sports has to go to meet established sports standards in which athletes get fined when they miss training, because it's in their contract and in this case they owe their employer to be present at every training session.
When you are alone competing in an individual competition for a prize it's very different, the tournaments organizers are not your employers and you don't owe them anything else than respecting their rules. You think what Lilbow did is bad for them? It's not. This public shaming is ridiculous.
A player doesn't owe his fans or the viewers anything, it's not like you are doing someone a favour by watching/cheering for him; you do it for yourself to entertain yourself and that's a fair exchange.
A quick 3-0 doesn't sound that shocking vs Life, one of the best Koreans ever, even if Lilbow did practice a lot and lost in similar fashion it would not have been a huge surprise.
But yeah, giving excuses of any kind for loosing in a competition is lame anyway, There is no such thing as a good excuse, the worst player looses and the better player wins; as simple as that. Lilbow was clearly the worst player in this match, so he lost, end of story.
"i'll give Lilbow the benefit of the doubt" ,"You, as a fan of Lilbow, have every right to be upset"
Get off your high horse.
It really seems like you directly came out of a recent South Park episode with all the PC stuff going on.
you're saying someone who earns a salary as an entertainer (athletes are entertainers) doesn't owe his fans anything?
or are you saying someone that earns a salary as a competitor doesn't need to try to compete?
fans and pros both need/owe each other
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On November 03 2015 14:00 Lunareste wrote:
If Life didn't know who Lilbow was before Blizzcon, he laughs at who he knows he is now.
What a pathetic excuse for a player, honestly.
Any bottom tier Korean player would KILL for the chance to play in Lilbow's spot for even the slightest chance of glory in front of the fans, and this kid throws it away because he's more concerned with a vague future than any sense of integrity for the game or the community.
It takes a lot to fucking disgust me, but this honestly takes the fucking cake.
Lilbow is honestly just as a bad as someone who matchfixed to me now.
You heard it here first folks, not practicing is as bad as match fixing.
On November 03 2015 12:17 Larkin wrote:
More disappointed in Life for cheesing him. He had just as much responsibility as Lilbow did to put on an entertaining show.
Rofl, these posts.
Just saw the games just now. There's something beautiful about a good 3-0 most people just can't appreciate. A 3-0 can be just as good as a 3-2.
Anyway, it's easy enough for people to judge, but walk in a man's shoes before you judge him. Spending months of your time studying a dead game for nothing more than "honor" is something I doubt any of the haters (even pros) would ever do. His twitter comments were admittedly stupid, oh well.
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On November 03 2015 14:28 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
Players don't owe shit to anyone. So sick of hearing all those entitled pricks saying X player behaviour is disrespectful towards the fans; or that they should do Y or Z because of shit. People saying Lilbow should have given his spot away if he was not going to prepare well enough. "lack of respect for the most prestogious event of the year", what a load of nonsense....
It's an individual competition. If you get to whichever point you get to, it's because you've earned it, it's the spot you deserve. You don't just hand a spot to someone else, it's not the "Care Bare association for not good enough player that couldn't make it but are nice so let's give them a free spot".
The 17th player on the list is undeserving of even putting a foot in the WCS global 16 men finals. period. That's just what competition is. And any of the 16 players who earned their spot isn't required to do anything else than qualifying to still deserve their spot.
They can still come as unprepared as you may imagine it doesn't take anything from what they did to get there before. They don't even have to practice, which shows how much more e-sports has to go to meet established sports standards in which athletes get fined when they miss training, because it's in their contract and in this case they owe their employer to be present at every training session.
When you are alone competing in an individual competition for a prize it's very different, the tournaments organizers are not your employers and you don't owe them anything else than respecting their rules. You think what Lilbow did is bad for them? It's not. This public shaming is ridiculous.
A player doesn't owe his fans or the viewers anything, it's not like you are doing someone a favour by watching/cheering for him; you do it for yourself to entertain yourself and that's a fair exchange.
A quick 3-0 doesn't sound that shocking vs Life, one of the best Koreans ever, even if Lilbow did practice a lot and lost in similar fashion it would not have been a huge surprise.
But yeah, giving excuses of any kind for loosing in a competition is lame anyway, There is no such thing as a good excuse, the worst player looses and the better player wins; as simple as that. Lilbow was clearly the worst player in this match, so he lost, end of story.
"i'll give Lilbow the benefit of the doubt" ,"You, as a fan of Lilbow, have every right to be upset"
Get off your high horse.
It really seems like you directly came out of a recent South Park episode with all the PC stuff going on.
Oh please; come off of it.
The only reason that Lilbow even got to go to Blizzcon is because he benefitted from the Region Locking that the fan base pressured Blizzard into implementing.
Without it, he wouldn't have done anything. hardly anyone outside of France would even know who he is, I know for sure I wouldn't. Foreign players don't get to bitch about not having fair opportunities to compete with the "infrastructure of Korea" and then turn around and say they don't owe the fans anything when it's the fans that give them the very opportunities they ask for.
Personally, I'd like to do away with the charity that is WCS premier league but I can understand why a lot of fans want it. But as long as it's here it needs to be acknowledged that it is a charity and when the pros are receiving charity they have an obligation on their end to hold up in order to warrant receiving it.
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On November 03 2015 14:43 RCCar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 14:30 Joedaddy wrote:
Go home Lycan. You're drunk.
seriously though, the sheer emotion in your post is bewildering. Stephano used to brag about how little he prepared too, and I don't remember any witch hunt propaganda back then. The only thing this OP has me wondering is what Lilbow really did to spur you into pitchfork wielding action? And please don't tell me its blatant disregard for your viewing pleasure. No rational adult reacts the way you did because some stranger didn't meet their standards of trying hard.
What an absurd OP. Stephano was not as big as lilbow. Lilbow could have made history and then threw it away. Are you really going to continue to call him LilBonaparte and honor him as a progamer after he showed his "love" for the game? No progamer blames his loss on cheese when he played the game less than a casual. I don't understand how you guys, as fans, think that only unconditional love is your only option. Lilbow, as a public person, has an obligation, yes, he does have an obligation no matter how servile you guys are, to the fans to try to show his best. Never liked Stephano because he kept on saying that he didn't practice either, but notice Stephano actually did play like he practiced a lot and got pretty ok results. I always thought Stephano was half bluffing because he also wanted to let down the guards of his opponent.
Stephano has his gimmick, just luck a wrestler.
"I haven't practiced for this ", oh yeah so what are those 500 games on your smurf bro ? shhht.
He practiced a lot but just had this relaxed persona which we all liked.
Lilbow is young, you guys are just being over critical my god.
Everyone makes mistake, he just made on on both his approach to the game and his public relationship management.
Its not the end of the world relax, i know we were all apprehending this and wanted to see a dominant lilbow instead of a bitchy one but stress can make the best of us look like fools.
Just let it slide and let time heal the wounds, if he ever do this kind of retarded shit again then turn against him.
But you can't really blame someone for one mistake...How many time did your mother forgave you ?
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"Lilbow and his Approach to WCS Finals 2015"
Ironically he did not even approach it 
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On November 03 2015 17:26 shid0x wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 14:43 RCCar wrote:On November 03 2015 14:30 Joedaddy wrote:
Go home Lycan. You're drunk.
seriously though, the sheer emotion in your post is bewildering. Stephano used to brag about how little he prepared too, and I don't remember any witch hunt propaganda back then. The only thing this OP has me wondering is what Lilbow really did to spur you into pitchfork wielding action? And please don't tell me its blatant disregard for your viewing pleasure. No rational adult reacts the way you did because some stranger didn't meet their standards of trying hard.
What an absurd OP. Stephano was not as big as lilbow. Lilbow could have made history and then threw it away. Are you really going to continue to call him LilBonaparte and honor him as a progamer after he showed his "love" for the game? No progamer blames his loss on cheese when he played the game less than a casual. I don't understand how you guys, as fans, think that only unconditional love is your only option. Lilbow, as a public person, has an obligation, yes, he does have an obligation no matter how servile you guys are, to the fans to try to show his best. Never liked Stephano because he kept on saying that he didn't practice either, but notice Stephano actually did play like he practiced a lot and got pretty ok results. I always thought Stephano was half bluffing because he also wanted to let down the guards of his opponent. Stephano has his gimmick, just luck a wrestler. "I haven't practiced for this ", oh yeah so what are those 500 games on your smurf bro ? shhht. He practiced a lot but just had this relaxed persona which we all liked. Lilbow is young, you guys are just being over critical my god. Everyone makes mistake, he just made on on both his approach to the game and his public relationship management. Its not the end of the world relax, i know we were all apprehending this and wanted to see a dominant lilbow instead of a bitchy one but stress can make the best of us look like fools. Just let it slide and let time heal the wounds, if he ever do this kind of retarded shit again then turn against him. But you can't really blame someone for one mistake...How many time did your mother forgave you ?
People will be over it in a couple days as with most drama. Unless he does it again or wins his next tourney or something then it'll come up again.
Mothers are a little more obliged to be forgiving than a random fan too 
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Lilbow is not too exciting of a player. He's far from being a foreign hope, he won a rather weak WCS, cool, congratulations. I never cheered for him and won't do so in the future.
His behaviour however is dumb. He had the opportunity to probably play the biggest tournament that there is. And instead of doing his best, he slipped and fell into a swamp of shit.
My disinterest however turned into a severe lack of respect. He should drink a beer with Naniwa.
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EPT
