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Lorch
Germany3667 Posts
On October 02 2013 20:22 Plexa wrote: Do you honestly think we'll have OSL and GSL both running concurrently with the current state of SC2 in Korea? Think about it. Maybe not OSL as OGN seems to love lol, thats why i would have given them wcs. GSL on the other hand would have continued without wcs, they even had the entire year planned out before hand. | ||
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SeriousLus
169 Posts
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On October 02 2013 19:41 dabom88 wrote: When Blizzard first announced WCS, people hated it because it had legitimately bad problems. 2 seasons later... people still hate it and the problems have not been fixed. And that doesn't look like it'll be changing any time soon. Since SC2's inception, it seems as though Blizzard has really stuck their fingers in their ears and their heads in the ground, ignoring a lot of the major criticisms people had with them. Korea's the region that that's been effected the most by their ignorance, and it's the region that's suffering the most as the result of it. And really, should anyone really be surprised? Problems have been apparent for a long time. Players have asked Blizzard to fix them. And Blizzard has stubbornly refused or ignored them. And as much as I love SC2, Blizzard just does not seem to get that their game and approach to e-sports needs major fixing. And as a result, I really find it sad that I don't think there's any more hope for SC2 in Korea. There isn't going to be some kind messiah savior for it. No magic bullet. No healing potion. The Korean audience has made it clear that they don't care for SC2 in its current state, and Blizzard really doesn't look like they're going to do anything to change that. So, unfortunately, that's probably gonna be it. I really hope I'm wrong, but I expect SC2 to continue to decline until it eventually becomes incredibly niche like WC3 in Korea. As for the rest of the world, it's probably more resilient. SC2 still pretty popular outside of Korea. I can't make any predictions for SC2 outside of Korea right now, as the writing on the wall isn't as clear as it is in Korea. Wcs was pretty much completely overhauled between season 1 and 2, maybe they didn't make the changes you or others wanted, but they certainly made big changes to try to respond to the criticisms for season 1, the ones jumping out at me are how poorly some of the regional tourny's were run and how it was more than a little difficult to watch any of the smaller country tourny's. I get that Season 2 is still flawed, but I don't think scraping it halfway through is the right solution, the last thing the scene needs is more turmoil and uncertainty, especially where potential prize earnings are concerned. I do like Fionn's post about the Season Finals, they're unnecessary, undermine the regular season and really extend the already long WCS season so that there's even less time for other events. And those other events are vital if SC2 is ever going to grow enough to stop being dependent on Blizzard's direct monetary support. | ||
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DreamOen
Spain1400 Posts
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
Code S championship is the pinnacle of achievement with a storied 3-year history. But thanks to WCS its now just part of the bigger competition, with a "grand finals" from multiple regions about a week after it finishes to brush over any interest built up during that season. Its also way more spread out thanks to the whole sharing WCS between GOM and OGN deal, rather than it being a separate tournament. OSL had the potential to come along from BW and carve out its own niche in the SC2 scene so we'd have two big exciting Korean tournaments. But instead we have this mish-mash amalgamated mess of the WCS system. And with the best players jetting all over the place to give themselves the best chance of reaching those season finals which provide a ton of points towards Blizzcon the Korean scene itself is losing its luster. I don't blame the players but the SC2 scene has actually gone from being a competition to see who is the best to a box-ticking and point-grabbing exercise. It kinda reminds me of the criticism that school exams face in the UK, where people say the school system has gone from being about teaching kids about subjects and now its teaching them to pass exams. WCS has made SC2 go from being about competing for specific tournament titles to competing for enough points to go to Blizzcon. | ||
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On October 02 2013 19:27 Fionn wrote: We need some (up)magic and go(go) through this tough time or we'll not have the luxury to enjoy SC2 in Korea anymore. that's not the people you would want to save SC2, unless you wanted to bring BW back. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
Hope this trend doesn't continue and the sponsors keep jumping to the next big thing. | ||
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jackslater
Russian Federation604 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 02 2013 20:23 ReignSupreme. wrote: I can't really be bothered to look one up (I didn't make the previous post that you're replying to) but in PC Baang statistics WC3 was outranking SC2 in usage/playtime/whatever, mind you I believe I saw it last pre-HOTS so it could have (maybe) changed since. edit: I bothered, you can find a tonne of weekly/monthly stats here; http://gametrics.com/news/News02_View.aspx?seqid=14149 Also the listing on the right also: ![[image loading]](http://www.gametrics.com/GameTricsUpFiles/NewsTitleFiles/2013090403.jpg) Let me tell you a bit about these stats. I They come only from PC Bangs, the korean internet cafes you go to to play your game. They use special accounts for every game with special promotions. For example more XP in an MMORPG or special items. Or, big example. ALL CHAMPIONS AVAILALBE in League of Legends. Special case for me is ArcheAge, because I play that game, and I know that PC Bang visitors are like 300% more efficient in that game. So koreans prefer to play in PC Bangs and socialize. With Starcraft 2 however, you almost gain nothing from going into PC Bang. A new portrait or something? I don't even know. And you just have to be in a loud environment. So I think, as a Starcraft 2 player, you would prefer to play at home, right? Starcraft: BW is an exception, because games like Big Game Hunters and everything are pretty popular and it is more played for fun than anything. You can even see adults play it for fun without even thinking about the competetive scene. In the game mentioned(ArcheAge) I have a lot of old korean guys in my guild, like 30+, and they regularly tell me that they enjoy SC:BW more than SC2, simply because they played it when they were younger and it just sticks to them. It's hard to replace something like that, and when everyone is telling you the "#dedgame2013" because SC2 is played differently and for different reasons, has lower viewership numbers than a game that has 30+ million players you believe it even more. So my point is: These numbers are only natural. They are, however, bad indicators of the true "state of the game" in korea. If anything, we should look at league placements in korea. Those are way better indicators than PC Bang stats. That does not mean I am defending WCS or Blizzard, I just want to get rid of the self-fullfilling prophecy that SC2 is a dead game. It's only dead if you call it that way.(Not directly saying it to the guy I quoted, just in general.) EDIT: Let's make it complete. This chart includes games being played at home: http://i.imgur.com/7E0Qofv.png SC2 is #17. Still bad, but compare it to BW: it's not in there. Both are played completely different. | ||
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Caladan
Germany1238 Posts
Can anyone actually argue that the big breakdown now wouldn't have happened without WCS? Even before WCS we had empty GSL studios, etc. Why do you people actually think it's not the game's fault and that it is just plain too bad/too boring to watch, but the fault of WCS? | ||
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Rickyvalle21
United States320 Posts
On October 02 2013 20:23 ReignSupreme. wrote: I can't really be bothered to look one up (I didn't make the previous post that you're replying to) but in PC Baang statistics WC3 was outranking SC2 in usage/playtime/whatever, mind you I believe I saw it last pre-HOTS so it could have (maybe) changed since. edit: I bothered, you can find a tonne of weekly/monthly stats here; http://gametrics.com/news/News02_View.aspx?seqid=14149 Also the listing on the right also: Thank you for linking for me I couldnt find the most recent but I knew I was right. Also I was going by PC bangs most played games which is a good indicator of popularity in korea. However Ive spoken with a few koreans and they say starctaft2 isnt exactly a game you wanna be playing at a PC bang. | ||
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ReboundEU
508 Posts
1. Different atmosphere in each competition...different live events and setups make it REALLY visually appealing 2. Competition between organizers... when i watched a competition let's say MLG, in my mind i was going "oh hell this is good..i wonder what the other guys will pull out to match this experience!"...there was a sense of surprise 3. Somewhat different methods of organizing matches. 4. MORE LIVE EVENTS! These are the first that pop up in my mind at the moment but the most prominent. Now with just WCS and occasionally DH it's "mmeh....whatever..". | ||
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Aureknight
3 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 02 2013 20:38 Rickyvalle21 wrote: Thank you for linking for me I couldnt find the most recent but I knew I was right. Let's make it complete, shall we? This one includes games being played at home: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7E0Qofv.png) Starcraft 2 #17, BW not even in there. (NO shitting on BW. I LOVE IT! But the games are played completely different in Korea!) | ||
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ReboundEU
508 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 02 2013 20:44 ReboundEU wrote: What's the first RTS linked in that list? O.o Is there an english version of that list out of curiosity? It's League Of Legends! It's so popular in Korea right now that it just beats EVERYTHING played in Korea. | ||
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ReboundEU
508 Posts
Thx for the answer btw! | ||
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Caladan
Germany1238 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18311 Posts
On October 02 2013 19:41 dabom88 wrote: When Blizzard first announced WCS, people hated it because it had legitimately bad problems. 2 seasons later... people still hate it and the problems have not been fixed. And that doesn't look like it'll be changing any time soon. Since SC2's inception, it seems as though Blizzard has really stuck their fingers in their ears and their heads in the ground, ignoring a lot of the major criticisms people had with them. Korea's the region that that's been effected the most by their ignorance, and it's the region that's suffering the most as the result of it. And really, should anyone really be surprised? Problems have been apparent for a long time. Players have asked Blizzard to fix them. And Blizzard has stubbornly refused or ignored them. And as much as I love SC2, Blizzard just does not seem to get that their game and approach to e-sports needs major fixing. And as a result, I really find it sad that I don't think there's any more hope for SC2 in Korea. There isn't going to be some kind messiah savior for it. No magic bullet. No healing potion. The Korean audience has made it clear that they don't care for SC2 in its current state, and Blizzard really doesn't look like they're going to do anything to change that. So, unfortunately, that's probably gonna be it. I really hope I'm wrong, but I expect SC2 to continue to decline until it eventually becomes incredibly niche like WC3 in Korea. As for the rest of the world, it's probably more resilient. SC2 still pretty popular outside of Korea. I can't make any predictions for SC2 outside of Korea right now, as the writing on the wall isn't as clear as it is in Korea. As long as the crowd claps when some blizzard staff appears on stage in a tournament, nothing will change. I mean blizzards drm postponed dh bucharest for hours and afterwards all clap happily and cheed | ||
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Arceus
Vietnam8332 Posts
On October 02 2013 20:01 Plansix wrote: Except all the bad news comes out of Korea, which has several times as many SC2 players as any other region and a population that is watching more LoL. I hear very little bad news coming out of EU or NA. You are comparing professional & amateur. And professional business is more likely to expose to risks like economic downturn, interests and stuffs. Hey I can sign some decent Koreans and form a team too if I got a few thousand bucks. | ||
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