|
Well the whole extended series stuff just creates more drama (thus more attention towards MLG) for them.
|
I think that a much bigger issue than the extended series with players who have played against each other before.... Is the extended series if they haven't.
The only advantage for the winners' bracket player is that they can cut the Bo7 short if they win 2 out of the first 3 games. If not, it's just a straight Bo7 with no advantages, with both players needing 4 won games in total to win. That's just wrong. At least with extended series between players who played earlier the player coming from the losers' bracket always needs to win more games.
|
I'm delighted to see them back because I think extended series are fair and excellent.
As an aside, I also think that GSL-style Swiss groups are absolutely crying out for them. Lead the way, MLG!
|
Actually I never understood why extended series was a necessary rule. Not to be confused with the single bracket double elim finals where the loser bracket guy has to beat the winner bracket guy twice to win. This rule is fair and normal.
|
On June 17 2013 18:49 Irrational_Animal wrote:
Well the whole extended series stuff just creates more drama (thus more attention towards MLG) for them.
The drama is created OUTSIDE the tournament though ... and you know that it takes ages to build a good reputation while it takes only seconds to ruin it. MLG has had some publicity missteps - like the many screw-ups during the WCS qualifier - only recently and this just adds to their reputation of not really knowing what they should do.
|
Worst news ever. This is worse than MLG becoming a 4p-invitational between Deezer, Combatx, Mia Rose and Lauren Elise.
|
its only semis ?
its super fair why you guys complain ?
|
On June 17 2013 18:55 Shikyo wrote:
I think that a much bigger issue than the extended series with players who have played against each other before.... Is the extended series if they haven't.
The only advantage for the winners' bracket player is that they can cut the Bo7 short if they win 2 out of the first 3 games. If not, it's just a straight Bo7 with no advantages, with both players needing 4 won games in total to win. That's just wrong. At least with extended series between players who played earlier the player coming from the losers' bracket always needs to win more games.
This makes no sense. There is no extended series for 2 players that haven't played yet.
|
On June 17 2013 16:24 habeck wrote:
I dont understand why everybody is/are crying? Its more fair for the players, if you beat him before - you have the advantage in the next match, its normal, stop crying. You just came here to complain about everything, which is stupid thing to do .
but if you go to the same position in the tourney by definition that means you have performed equally well, i may have put you down the loser bracket, but that means there must be someone out there who put me down.
to put it another way, if i fall down the loser bracket and im watching the match to see who progresses in the loser bracket to face me, why does who i face decide the format we play in? we have all earned the right to be in that exact same match, why do i have a 50% chance at that point of having a free 2-1 head start?
or to use real sport examples, imagine the champions league or world series finals. if the teams have played before in the regular season, does 1 get a free advantage in the final? no.
|
On June 17 2013 19:57 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 16:24 habeck wrote:
I dont understand why everybody is/are crying? Its more fair for the players, if you beat him before - you have the advantage in the next match, its normal, stop crying. You just came here to complain about everything, which is stupid thing to do . but if you go to the same position in the tourney by definition that means you have performed equally well, i may have put you down the loser bracket, but that means there must be someone out there who put me down. to put it another way, if i fall down the loser bracket and im watching the match to see who progresses in the loser bracket to face me, why does who i face decide the format we play in? we have all earned the right to be in that exact same match, why do i have a 50% chance at that point of having a free 2-1 head start? or to use real sport examples, imagine the champions league or world series finals. if the teams have played before in the regular season, does 1 get a free advantage in the final? no.
And if they want to provide an advantage let the person who won previously pick first map or something.
But like you said no other tournament does this. Have you ever seen a soccer match where a team started up 1-0?
|
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 17 2013 18:14 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 17:31 Nyvis wrote:On June 17 2013 16:01 Rabiator wrote:On June 17 2013 15:11 MonkSEA wrote:On June 17 2013 13:36 StarStruck wrote:Leave it to the good Ol' MLG Commissioner to keep this crap up boys. If they were so torn about deadlines on the production perhaps they should do more bo1 :3 On June 17 2013 05:26 Plexa wrote:On June 17 2013 05:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On June 17 2013 05:22 Plexa wrote:On June 17 2013 05:20 Vindicare605 wrote:
Of course it's back guys, this is how they do double elimination.
Would you all rather have traditional double elimination where the person coming from the lower bracket has to win two series to win the finals?
It's double elimination, viewers want double elimination. This is part of what makes double elimination what it is. I don't understand the whining about it at all. Sometimes the 'fairest' option is not the best option for the viewers. Let's be honest here Plexa, the viewers are going to complain about something, no matter how much you try to appease them. Extended Series is actually better for the viewers than the double series format we had at Blizzcon and IPL and people really hated that shit. I didn't hear any complaints when people assumed that extended series wasn't going to be present at this MLG, knowing that it was going to be a double elim bracket. You have to ask yourself whether MLG is a tournament where you want the best player to win, or if you want the viewers to have the best possible viewing experience. To have the best player win I would argue in defense of extended series, but I would argue that extended series is not the best thing for viewers. The pinnacle of anti-climatic finishes. Indeed. People just like to jump on the bandwagon of "Extended series is bad because it knocked out my favorite player unfairly!!!". I think the vocal majority of people don't care what happens as long as the player their rooting for gets past. Extended series if a fair advantage, I don't know how anyone else can complain otherwise. Explain to me why the extended series is FAIR. Player A plays against player B and one of them goes down to the losers bracket. The loser has "paid his price" by losing one of his two lives. Why should he be penalized later on if they meet again, because both of them are losers? Its like a criminal who has served his sentence in prison and who commits another crime later on ... he only gets tried for the new crime instead of all his crimes, because he paid the penalty already. No. Extended series allow you to make a difference between 2-1 and 2-0 in a Bo3. As long as it doesn't affect the finals, I'm okay with it. So a criminal in your world will be sentenced for all his crimes from the past ... no matter if he already served time in prison? I understand your point but this is a truly terrible example. In almost every country in the world, repeat offenders get more severe punishments.
|
On June 17 2013 19:57 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 16:24 habeck wrote:
I dont understand why everybody is/are crying? Its more fair for the players, if you beat him before - you have the advantage in the next match, its normal, stop crying. You just came here to complain about everything, which is stupid thing to do . but if you go to the same position in the tourney by definition that means you have performed equally well, i may have put you down the loser bracket, but that means there must be someone out there who put me down. to put it another way, if i fall down the loser bracket and im watching the match to see who progresses in the loser bracket to face me, why does who i face decide the format we play in? we have all earned the right to be in that exact same match, why do i have a 50% chance at that point of having a free 2-1 head start? or to use real sport examples, imagine the champions league or world series finals. if the teams have played before in the regular season, does 1 get a free advantage in the final? no.
Well there is a equal chance that a player could have a stupid easy losers bracket and get back into the winners bracket. There is a scenario where the winner has to play 5-6 professional players, while the loser gets a few low masters players a pro or two. Then the player who smashed through the winners bracket gets to play the player they already knocked out, who had to play only the losing players from the bracket.
I long as it doesn't affect the finals, I am ok with extended series. It doesn't work great with all professional brackets, but when it is this mix of pros and amateur players, I am fine with it.
|
On June 17 2013 20:10 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 18:14 Rabiator wrote:On June 17 2013 17:31 Nyvis wrote:On June 17 2013 16:01 Rabiator wrote:On June 17 2013 15:11 MonkSEA wrote:On June 17 2013 13:36 StarStruck wrote:Leave it to the good Ol' MLG Commissioner to keep this crap up boys. If they were so torn about deadlines on the production perhaps they should do more bo1 :3 On June 17 2013 05:26 Plexa wrote:On June 17 2013 05:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On June 17 2013 05:22 Plexa wrote:On June 17 2013 05:20 Vindicare605 wrote:
Of course it's back guys, this is how they do double elimination.
Would you all rather have traditional double elimination where the person coming from the lower bracket has to win two series to win the finals?
It's double elimination, viewers want double elimination. This is part of what makes double elimination what it is. I don't understand the whining about it at all. Sometimes the 'fairest' option is not the best option for the viewers. Let's be honest here Plexa, the viewers are going to complain about something, no matter how much you try to appease them. Extended Series is actually better for the viewers than the double series format we had at Blizzcon and IPL and people really hated that shit. I didn't hear any complaints when people assumed that extended series wasn't going to be present at this MLG, knowing that it was going to be a double elim bracket. You have to ask yourself whether MLG is a tournament where you want the best player to win, or if you want the viewers to have the best possible viewing experience. To have the best player win I would argue in defense of extended series, but I would argue that extended series is not the best thing for viewers. The pinnacle of anti-climatic finishes. Indeed. People just like to jump on the bandwagon of "Extended series is bad because it knocked out my favorite player unfairly!!!". I think the vocal majority of people don't care what happens as long as the player their rooting for gets past. Extended series if a fair advantage, I don't know how anyone else can complain otherwise. Explain to me why the extended series is FAIR. Player A plays against player B and one of them goes down to the losers bracket. The loser has "paid his price" by losing one of his two lives. Why should he be penalized later on if they meet again, because both of them are losers? Its like a criminal who has served his sentence in prison and who commits another crime later on ... he only gets tried for the new crime instead of all his crimes, because he paid the penalty already. No. Extended series allow you to make a difference between 2-1 and 2-0 in a Bo3. As long as it doesn't affect the finals, I'm okay with it. So a criminal in your world will be sentenced for all his crimes from the past ... no matter if he already served time in prison? I understand your point but this is a truly terrible example. In almost every country in the world, repeat offenders get more severe punishments.
Massachusetts has it written into the law that drunk drivers MUST get a great punishment each time that they are convicted of the offense. There is no judicial discretion on the matter, it has to happen.
|
On June 17 2013 18:55 Shikyo wrote:
The only advantage for the winners' bracket player is that they can cut the Bo7 short if they win 2 out of the first 3 games. If not, it's just a straight Bo7 with no advantages, with both players needing 4 won games in total to win. That's just wrong. At least with extended series between players who played earlier the player coming from the losers' bracket always needs to win more games.
This is what people seem to really not understand about double elimination brackets in relation to BoX games/matches; the loser's bracket winner had to go to the loser's bracket and win even more matches to even reach the final. That is the disadvantage the upper winner didn't have to go through. They don't get to play less opponents and get an advantage in the final, that's ridiculous.
All that said, extended series is bad and MLG is just being MLG.
|
On June 17 2013 20:10 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 18:14 Rabiator wrote:On June 17 2013 17:31 Nyvis wrote:On June 17 2013 16:01 Rabiator wrote:On June 17 2013 15:11 MonkSEA wrote:On June 17 2013 13:36 StarStruck wrote:Leave it to the good Ol' MLG Commissioner to keep this crap up boys. If they were so torn about deadlines on the production perhaps they should do more bo1 :3 On June 17 2013 05:26 Plexa wrote:On June 17 2013 05:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On June 17 2013 05:22 Plexa wrote:On June 17 2013 05:20 Vindicare605 wrote:
Of course it's back guys, this is how they do double elimination.
Would you all rather have traditional double elimination where the person coming from the lower bracket has to win two series to win the finals?
It's double elimination, viewers want double elimination. This is part of what makes double elimination what it is. I don't understand the whining about it at all. Sometimes the 'fairest' option is not the best option for the viewers. Let's be honest here Plexa, the viewers are going to complain about something, no matter how much you try to appease them. Extended Series is actually better for the viewers than the double series format we had at Blizzcon and IPL and people really hated that shit. I didn't hear any complaints when people assumed that extended series wasn't going to be present at this MLG, knowing that it was going to be a double elim bracket. You have to ask yourself whether MLG is a tournament where you want the best player to win, or if you want the viewers to have the best possible viewing experience. To have the best player win I would argue in defense of extended series, but I would argue that extended series is not the best thing for viewers. The pinnacle of anti-climatic finishes. Indeed. People just like to jump on the bandwagon of "Extended series is bad because it knocked out my favorite player unfairly!!!". I think the vocal majority of people don't care what happens as long as the player their rooting for gets past. Extended series if a fair advantage, I don't know how anyone else can complain otherwise. Explain to me why the extended series is FAIR. Player A plays against player B and one of them goes down to the losers bracket. The loser has "paid his price" by losing one of his two lives. Why should he be penalized later on if they meet again, because both of them are losers? Its like a criminal who has served his sentence in prison and who commits another crime later on ... he only gets tried for the new crime instead of all his crimes, because he paid the penalty already. No. Extended series allow you to make a difference between 2-1 and 2-0 in a Bo3. As long as it doesn't affect the finals, I'm okay with it. So a criminal in your world will be sentenced for all his crimes from the past ... no matter if he already served time in prison? I understand your point but this is a truly terrible example. In almost every country in the world, repeat offenders get more severe punishments.
TL: home of the terribad analogies. As for CoR the word anti-climatic seems to escape you.
|
On June 17 2013 20:10 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 18:14 Rabiator wrote:On June 17 2013 17:31 Nyvis wrote:On June 17 2013 16:01 Rabiator wrote:On June 17 2013 15:11 MonkSEA wrote:On June 17 2013 13:36 StarStruck wrote:Leave it to the good Ol' MLG Commissioner to keep this crap up boys. If they were so torn about deadlines on the production perhaps they should do more bo1 :3 On June 17 2013 05:26 Plexa wrote:On June 17 2013 05:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On June 17 2013 05:22 Plexa wrote:On June 17 2013 05:20 Vindicare605 wrote:
Of course it's back guys, this is how they do double elimination.
Would you all rather have traditional double elimination where the person coming from the lower bracket has to win two series to win the finals?
It's double elimination, viewers want double elimination. This is part of what makes double elimination what it is. I don't understand the whining about it at all. Sometimes the 'fairest' option is not the best option for the viewers. Let's be honest here Plexa, the viewers are going to complain about something, no matter how much you try to appease them. Extended Series is actually better for the viewers than the double series format we had at Blizzcon and IPL and people really hated that shit. I didn't hear any complaints when people assumed that extended series wasn't going to be present at this MLG, knowing that it was going to be a double elim bracket. You have to ask yourself whether MLG is a tournament where you want the best player to win, or if you want the viewers to have the best possible viewing experience. To have the best player win I would argue in defense of extended series, but I would argue that extended series is not the best thing for viewers. The pinnacle of anti-climatic finishes. Indeed. People just like to jump on the bandwagon of "Extended series is bad because it knocked out my favorite player unfairly!!!". I think the vocal majority of people don't care what happens as long as the player their rooting for gets past. Extended series if a fair advantage, I don't know how anyone else can complain otherwise. Explain to me why the extended series is FAIR. Player A plays against player B and one of them goes down to the losers bracket. The loser has "paid his price" by losing one of his two lives. Why should he be penalized later on if they meet again, because both of them are losers? Its like a criminal who has served his sentence in prison and who commits another crime later on ... he only gets tried for the new crime instead of all his crimes, because he paid the penalty already. No. Extended series allow you to make a difference between 2-1 and 2-0 in a Bo3. As long as it doesn't affect the finals, I'm okay with it. So a criminal in your world will be sentenced for all his crimes from the past ... no matter if he already served time in prison? I understand your point but this is a truly terrible example. In almost every country in the world, repeat offenders get more severe punishments.
I would say they are let off easy the first time since the actual severity of the punishment is up to the judge, but that isnt really the point. In every country you are only charged with the current offense instead of all the things you have done wrong before serving your time in prison. The point is: You got dropped to losers bracket - which is the punishment - and should have a clean slate against everyone you have to play.
On June 17 2013 20:18 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 20:10 Plexa wrote:On June 17 2013 18:14 Rabiator wrote:On June 17 2013 17:31 Nyvis wrote:On June 17 2013 16:01 Rabiator wrote:On June 17 2013 15:11 MonkSEA wrote:On June 17 2013 13:36 StarStruck wrote:Leave it to the good Ol' MLG Commissioner to keep this crap up boys. If they were so torn about deadlines on the production perhaps they should do more bo1 :3 On June 17 2013 05:26 Plexa wrote:On June 17 2013 05:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On June 17 2013 05:22 Plexa wrote:
[quote]
Sometimes the 'fairest' option is not the best option for the viewers. Let's be honest here Plexa, the viewers are going to complain about something, no matter how much you try to appease them. Extended Series is actually better for the viewers than the double series format we had at Blizzcon and IPL and people really hated that shit. I didn't hear any complaints when people assumed that extended series wasn't going to be present at this MLG, knowing that it was going to be a double elim bracket. You have to ask yourself whether MLG is a tournament where you want the best player to win, or if you want the viewers to have the best possible viewing experience. To have the best player win I would argue in defense of extended series, but I would argue that extended series is not the best thing for viewers. The pinnacle of anti-climatic finishes. Indeed. People just like to jump on the bandwagon of "Extended series is bad because it knocked out my favorite player unfairly!!!". I think the vocal majority of people don't care what happens as long as the player their rooting for gets past. Extended series if a fair advantage, I don't know how anyone else can complain otherwise. Explain to me why the extended series is FAIR. Player A plays against player B and one of them goes down to the losers bracket. The loser has "paid his price" by losing one of his two lives. Why should he be penalized later on if they meet again, because both of them are losers? Its like a criminal who has served his sentence in prison and who commits another crime later on ... he only gets tried for the new crime instead of all his crimes, because he paid the penalty already. No. Extended series allow you to make a difference between 2-1 and 2-0 in a Bo3. As long as it doesn't affect the finals, I'm okay with it. So a criminal in your world will be sentenced for all his crimes from the past ... no matter if he already served time in prison? I understand your point but this is a truly terrible example. In almost every country in the world, repeat offenders get more severe punishments. Massachusetts has it written into the law that drunk drivers MUST get a great punishment each time that they are convicted of the offense. There is no judicial discretion on the matter, it has to happen.
Is the punishment increased for each time they are convicted OR is it the same harsh punishment each time?
|
On June 17 2013 20:49 divito wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 18:55 Shikyo wrote:
The only advantage for the winners' bracket player is that they can cut the Bo7 short if they win 2 out of the first 3 games. If not, it's just a straight Bo7 with no advantages, with both players needing 4 won games in total to win. That's just wrong. At least with extended series between players who played earlier the player coming from the losers' bracket always needs to win more games. This is what people seem to really not understand about double elimination brackets in relation to BoX games/matches; the loser's bracket winner had to go to the loser's bracket and win even more matches to even reach the final. That is the disadvantage the upper winner didn't have to go through. They don't get to play less opponents and get an advantage in the final, that's ridiculous. All that said, extended series is bad and MLG is just being MLG.
If you lose in the second to last round you have to win just as many matches as the guy from the upper bracket.
|
Extended series is not the best option for the viewing experience. Especially when there was an earlier dominate performance making the viewer think the series is almost over at the finals. With that said it isn't unfair. You did have the chance to win earlier you simply didn't. You also got to play losers while the guy who beat you was still playing winners. I really don't see the issue with it for people except that it can and usually does make the finals lackluster.
|
On June 17 2013 21:49 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 20:10 Plexa wrote:On June 17 2013 18:14 Rabiator wrote:On June 17 2013 17:31 Nyvis wrote:On June 17 2013 16:01 Rabiator wrote:On June 17 2013 15:11 MonkSEA wrote:On June 17 2013 13:36 StarStruck wrote:Leave it to the good Ol' MLG Commissioner to keep this crap up boys. If they were so torn about deadlines on the production perhaps they should do more bo1 :3 On June 17 2013 05:26 Plexa wrote:On June 17 2013 05:24 Vindicare605 wrote:On June 17 2013 05:22 Plexa wrote:
[quote]
Sometimes the 'fairest' option is not the best option for the viewers. Let's be honest here Plexa, the viewers are going to complain about something, no matter how much you try to appease them. Extended Series is actually better for the viewers than the double series format we had at Blizzcon and IPL and people really hated that shit. I didn't hear any complaints when people assumed that extended series wasn't going to be present at this MLG, knowing that it was going to be a double elim bracket. You have to ask yourself whether MLG is a tournament where you want the best player to win, or if you want the viewers to have the best possible viewing experience. To have the best player win I would argue in defense of extended series, but I would argue that extended series is not the best thing for viewers. The pinnacle of anti-climatic finishes. Indeed. People just like to jump on the bandwagon of "Extended series is bad because it knocked out my favorite player unfairly!!!". I think the vocal majority of people don't care what happens as long as the player their rooting for gets past. Extended series if a fair advantage, I don't know how anyone else can complain otherwise. Explain to me why the extended series is FAIR. Player A plays against player B and one of them goes down to the losers bracket. The loser has "paid his price" by losing one of his two lives. Why should he be penalized later on if they meet again, because both of them are losers? Its like a criminal who has served his sentence in prison and who commits another crime later on ... he only gets tried for the new crime instead of all his crimes, because he paid the penalty already. No. Extended series allow you to make a difference between 2-1 and 2-0 in a Bo3. As long as it doesn't affect the finals, I'm okay with it. So a criminal in your world will be sentenced for all his crimes from the past ... no matter if he already served time in prison? I understand your point but this is a truly terrible example. In almost every country in the world, repeat offenders get more severe punishments. I would say they are let off easy the first time since the actual severity of the punishment is up to the judge, but that isnt really the point. In every country you are only charged with the current offense instead of all the things you have done wrong before serving your time in prison. The point is: You got dropped to losers bracket - which is the punishment - and should have a clean slate against everyone you have to play. Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 20:18 Plansix wrote:On June 17 2013 20:10 Plexa wrote:On June 17 2013 18:14 Rabiator wrote:On June 17 2013 17:31 Nyvis wrote:On June 17 2013 16:01 Rabiator wrote:On June 17 2013 15:11 MonkSEA wrote:On June 17 2013 13:36 StarStruck wrote:Leave it to the good Ol' MLG Commissioner to keep this crap up boys. If they were so torn about deadlines on the production perhaps they should do more bo1 :3 On June 17 2013 05:26 Plexa wrote:On June 17 2013 05:24 Vindicare605 wrote:
[quote]
Let's be honest here Plexa, the viewers are going to complain about something, no matter how much you try to appease them.
Extended Series is actually better for the viewers than the double series format we had at Blizzcon and IPL and people really hated that shit.
I didn't hear any complaints when people assumed that extended series wasn't going to be present at this MLG, knowing that it was going to be a double elim bracket. You have to ask yourself whether MLG is a tournament where you want the best player to win, or if you want the viewers to have the best possible viewing experience. To have the best player win I would argue in defense of extended series, but I would argue that extended series is not the best thing for viewers. The pinnacle of anti-climatic finishes. Indeed. People just like to jump on the bandwagon of "Extended series is bad because it knocked out my favorite player unfairly!!!". I think the vocal majority of people don't care what happens as long as the player their rooting for gets past. Extended series if a fair advantage, I don't know how anyone else can complain otherwise. Explain to me why the extended series is FAIR. Player A plays against player B and one of them goes down to the losers bracket. The loser has "paid his price" by losing one of his two lives. Why should he be penalized later on if they meet again, because both of them are losers? Its like a criminal who has served his sentence in prison and who commits another crime later on ... he only gets tried for the new crime instead of all his crimes, because he paid the penalty already. No. Extended series allow you to make a difference between 2-1 and 2-0 in a Bo3. As long as it doesn't affect the finals, I'm okay with it. So a criminal in your world will be sentenced for all his crimes from the past ... no matter if he already served time in prison? I understand your point but this is a truly terrible example. In almost every country in the world, repeat offenders get more severe punishments. Massachusetts has it written into the law that drunk drivers MUST get a great punishment each time that they are convicted of the offense. There is no judicial discretion on the matter, it has to happen. Is the punishment increased for each time they are convicted OR is it the same harsh punishment each time?
It increases each time you are convicted, in both fines and length of licence suspension. After three times, you go to jail. There is no discretion is allowed.(excluding previous convictions going unnoticed by the court, which happens if someone a split criminal record) It is there to avoid issues where repeat offenders keep getting released until they finally kill someone, which is why the minimums were put in place.
|
MLG is like one of those smokers that get cured of lung cancer and immediately light one up again.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
