Four Koreans qualify from WCS AM Prelim Day 1 - Page 9

Thor.Rush

Sweden702 Posts

April 21 2013 08:37 GMT

#161

On April 21 2013 13:24 goswser wrote:
People quickly forget that the majority of NA players capable of beating koreans were invited to the premier league, NA players aren't as bad as this may indicate.

Same with EU though.

DiMano

Korea (South)2066 Posts

April 21 2013 08:38 GMT

#162

On April 21 2013 17:31 Orcasgt24 wrote:
WCS is the stupidest thing ever.

Regional based tourneys should be done by people in the region.

It is cool for people in the region but I would never watch WCS NA without Koreans

Kuni

Austria765 Posts

April 21 2013 08:40 GMT

#163

On April 21 2013 17:38 DiMano wrote:

Show nested quote +

It is cool for people in the region but I would never watch WCS NA without Koreans

There are enough people who would, so it's a win win. Some will only watch the Koreans, others would also watch WCS NA.

JJH777

United States4416 Posts

April 21 2013 08:42 GMT

#164

On April 21 2013 17:40 Kuni wrote:

Show nested quote +

There are enough people who would, so it's a win win. Some will only watch the Koreans, others would also watch WCS NA.

I doubt there are enough tbh. For purely NA players I can't picture anymore than 20-30k tuning in

Thor.Rush

Sweden702 Posts

April 21 2013 08:43 GMT

#165

I think it's great all these Koreans are getting qualified. The only sad story is DeMuslim not getting invited. That's just insane.

NarutO

Germany18839 Posts

April 21 2013 08:43 GMT

#166

On April 21 2013 17:37 Noobity wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 21 2013 17:13 Type|NarutO wrote:

On April 21 2013 17:03 Noobity wrote:

On April 21 2013 16:37 Type|NarutO wrote:

On April 21 2013 13:36 Noobity wrote:
Well, this looks like it's not getting watched by me.

So much for an outlet to watch North Americans play North Americans to win the North American qualifiers and go up against the rest of the world as representatives of where I live.

I really hoped this would end up differently, but I guess it was me just being delusional. I thought "hey, the EU qualifiers didn't have that many non-europeans, it wont be too bad!" There were more chinese players who got dicked out of a spot than there were korean players in the EU wcs.

I hope so much that someone from North America qualifies through the lower brackets, but at this point I don't think it would matter for me.

I tried jumping on the "only want to see the best games!" bandwagon but fuck, dudes, this shit is old. Give me a goddamned storyline I can get behind. Holy crap. I wanted to believe in the WCS model so bad. It's really hard being a fan of the North American SC2 scene when you have so little going for you.

Fuck, get your infos about the players and stop bitching. There is no more or less story involved in NA players. Ignorance and stupiditiy really is rising. Don't want it and leave us alone, seriously.

On April 21 2013 14:00 Noobity wrote:

On April 21 2013 13:40 Bagration wrote:

On April 21 2013 13:36 Noobity wrote:
Well, this looks like it's not getting watched by me.

So much for an outlet to watch North Americans play North Americans to win the North American qualifiers and go up against the rest of the world as representatives of where I live.

I really hoped this would end up differently, but I guess it was me just being delusional. I thought "hey, the EU qualifiers didn't have that many non-europeans, it wont be too bad!" There were more chinese players who got dicked out of a spot than there were korean players in the EU wcs.

I hope so much that someone from North America qualifies through the lower brackets, but at this point I don't think it would matter for me.

I tried jumping on the "only want to see the best games!" bandwagon but fuck, dudes, this shit is old. Give me a goddamned storyline I can get behind. Holy crap. I wanted to believe in the WCS model so bad. It's really hard being a fan of the North American SC2 scene when you have so little going for you.

Well I guess I can understand where you are coming from somewhat, but it's not like the Koreans are mindless robots with no personality. To the contrary, many of them have very unique and interesting personalities, and many of them do put on a good show (not just play, but also showmanship).

Anyways, here's to a great showing by Axiom, and hopefully Heart and Miya can rally in the LB tomorrow.

I don't think you're trying to paint me in a negative light, but to defend my point I agree, there are plenty of koreans with a ton of personality. In fact I'd argue that all of them are interesting in some way.

But we should be seeing players like QXC, Nony, and Fitzy representing North America rather than STC Miya and Crank. I don't think many would argue that the latter are currently... Better I guess, but I want to cheer on the hometown heroes. Yeah, so maybe the gameplay elitists wouldn't want to watch WCS NA at that point, but why should we be stuck watching our foreign hopes in streamed online team league cups where in order to stay competitive they have to recruit Korean players anyway?

I love Korean tournaments, but I would love to have a single North American tournament with MLG production levels that features only North American players even once a year. I don't really think that's too much to ask.

No we should not see fucking QXC, NonY or Fitze represent America or for that matter the region NA they chose in a high profile 250 000$ tournament. No one wants to see another Ro32 MLG 3-0 sweep by Koreans. If there are Americans worthy of getting that spot, they will get their spot and they will not lose horribly.

So aside from the fact that I don't think my posts warranted any of that insulting bullshit you spouted, I'm also not saying a goddamned thing about money.

Never did I say NA pros needed the same chance to win the same money that a korean player should have the chance to win. I do however think that in a tournament that's meant to represent us, we should have the opportunity to have our players do that.

And for the record, I would fucking love to see QXC, Nony and Fitzy take 3 spots in the region they live in, and quite possibly go out 0-3 in the wcs finals because they fucking made it there fighting their peers. I would watch every single game where they get demolished by Life, MC and MVP because I am proud of them. They play on my server. They live on my continent. They are people I can play if I get good enough. Don't underestimate the viewership and prestige these players could earn themselves and esports as a whole regardless of whether or not they go out 0-3 to a superior Korean player in the finals.

You say Koreans have no story behind them which is not just ignorant but its shifting towards being racist. 'They all look the same, all play the same and don't do anything'. Well for that matter, I don't blame you for not speaking Korean but if you want to get infos about a player and if you would just have the tiniest bit of interest in them, you would get your hand on information about them, because I can tell you that most Koreans are actually more interesting than herpa derp I can play a cheesy style and be entertaining foreigner.

I am not saying its bad to see locals at a final, I'm saying its bad to ban the others. If NonY and all your favorite locals are not capable of reaching the final, they are not worthy and should not fucking be there. Blizzard cheated the Koreans to begin with, what did they expect? Koreans are not stupid, if they need to pick to qualify for 250000$ or not to qualify, hell I know where I am going.

You can be proud as long as you want, but if you keep telling yourself that NonY is more deserving of his NA seed/place whatever than Center or Apocalypse... sorry man, just no. If you arrange such a tournament with a major status and money, you have to keep it real and let the big guns take their shot. We already have enough people invited that are a shame to begin with and make the scene laughable.

If you want local competition to rise aka NonY, qxc, Fitze and who else, you better do minor leagues with not hundrets of thousands of dollars so its actually worth for locals to participate but not for Koreans. Do you think Koreans would play if its about 1000$ ? Its about 150 000 regional finals and 250 000 global final. And really I cannot believe you would want to watch another 0-3 Minigun vs Life in 20 minutes compared to an epic potentially bo5 series between two of the best players that easily have a story behind them...

There is a difference in not being interested in the player and calling him out as soulless machine

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't think all koreans look the same, I don't think they are soulless, I don't think they have no stories.

I think they have few stories that I care about (some exceptions such as Flash/Life), I think I can't relate to them in many ways, I think they are not representing me.

I think I have a right to believe what I believe, that a North American resident deserves a spot in a North American Qualifier. I mean at this point you might as well just have a single offline qualifier (GSL) and then an online qualifier that encompasses everyone else for all the good it would do.

I also have a right to not be insulted here. I cannot conceivably believe you think it's OK to spout that shit. The sheer audacity you must have to imply that kind of thing about another person who in no way even hinted that he believed a race of people were "Soulless machines" is so mindblowing to me. Thread is yours, dude. Keep being that reason people are afraid to speak their minds and go against the vocal minority.

I am not hostile nor do I attack you for no reason. There's a reason I am still around with over 14000 posts right? If I were an immature dick, I would have been banned long ago. You posted

'I tried jumping on the "only want to see the best games!" bandwagon but fuck, dudes, this shit is old. Give me a goddamned storyline I can get behind.'

And I don't put any words in your mouth with saying that this basically states that Koreans don't have a storyline you could follow. I actually don't really know how you could say any Korean would have less story than a foreigner, because most rivalries arise from good players that meet often. I never said I want 100% Koreans in a tournament, I am saying I want fair competition and if it leads to majority being Korean and a few foreigners, those foreigners you can be proud of because they deserve and earned their spot.

Are you really proud if someone like NonY would blast through the field with no competition to 'represent' you or NA for that matter in a big final? Did he earn his spot? Do you really want unfair competition? Because that is exactly what your statement is going towards. To even out qualifiers and Koreans, you got invites. Check out how many Koreans got one of the 24 seeds and check out how many non-Koreans (NA players) got them.

Do you really think its fair that HelloKitty or Capoch are in over (lust as example) DemusliM or Apocalypse? The invite system alone is not fair, but I can understand that you invite locals over Koreans to not alienate the complete tournament, but really if you have qualifiers, please non-Koreans step up the game or don't complain.

Arnstein

Norway3381 Posts

April 21 2013 08:43 GMT

#167

Well, the best players qualify, no matter where they come from.

ZenithM

France15952 Posts

April 21 2013 08:47 GMT

#168

Well, whether or not NA dudes make it through because you ban non-residents, they will eventually have to face skilled players (at the finals for example) and lose. The best solution is to get better first, and get some wins only then. They're already starting doing that: with strong Koreans laddering on NA, they're getting much better practice.
I was enjoying these last days how Demuslim was really excited to play Byun several times in a row. Even though he lost a majority of the games, he did win some, and definitely improved his TvT imo.

Plus, I watched those qualifiers and have had the chance to see some third-rate foreigners' games, which I wouldn't have done if not for the presence of good players (even if they're not american). It definitely brings more spotlight on NA locals. Another WCS NA finals wouldn't have done that, I don't care at all about a ZvZ finals between Vibe and I-don't-know-who-anymore (Scarlett?).

For me, WCS is a success so far. NA qualifiers could have gone a bit smoother: filtering out maphackers earlier in the bracket, not letting Hyun waste his time trying to qualify where he isn't able to, and not so much downtime between games in the earlier rounds :D

Spidinko

Slovakia1174 Posts

April 21 2013 08:49 GMT

#169

I don't know. I'll watch WCS KR to see some top games and WCS EU to watch top foreigners.
I'm quite sad for WCS NA, though. It just doesn't have the story line.

I'm happy for WCS EU. I'll finaly get to know EU scene better.

Germany4057 Posts

April 21 2013 08:51 GMT

#170

Grats to the four qualifiers.
Looking forward to see who advances from the loser brackets

ZenithM

France15952 Posts

April 21 2013 08:51 GMT

#171

One day I'll understand what "storylines" people are referring to.

CarlosOmse

Germany507 Posts

April 21 2013 08:55 GMT

#172

poor americans!! hopefully the start the offline shit erlier so the koreans have to fully commit to the na if they wanna steal their money

SayTT

Sweden2158 Posts

April 21 2013 08:56 GMT

#173

Hm wait what? Only 2 foreigners was able to take down a Korean, out of 512 players? All the other Koreans only lost to other Koreans? Damn that is harsh, the US scene needs to step it up a notch.

Dingodile

4139 Posts

April 21 2013 08:56 GMT

#174

sc2 has a main problem (what 95% of other rts game dont have): the higher the quality, the more boring games (except TvT).
Koreans are the best to play in best quality. It is not koreans mistake, it is sc2 or blizzard mistake.

NarutO

Germany18839 Posts

April 21 2013 08:59 GMT

#175

On April 21 2013 17:56 Dingodile wrote:
sc2 has a main problem (what 95% of other rts game dont have): the higher the quality, the more boring games (except TvT).
Koreans are the best to play in best quality. It is not koreans mistake, it is sc2 or blizzard mistake.

Better games are less boring. Regardless of match up

Dodgin

Canada39254 Posts

April 21 2013 09:00 GMT

#176

On April 21 2013 17:51 ZenithM wrote:
One day I'll understand what "storylines" people are referring to.

The only way I can buy " storylines " is if you're a high ranked player on NA and you know all the NA players, personally I know way more about Korean players on average.

Ponera

Canada596 Posts

April 21 2013 09:01 GMT

#177

On April 21 2013 17:55 CarlosOmse wrote:
poor americans!! hopefully the start the offline shit erlier so the koreans have to fully commit to the na if they wanna steal their money

nah just blame canada, but be warned: We are canadian, not retarded, it's different!

What's kind of strange to me is comparing WCS to something like the NHL. If you could only present local players, Alberta, British Columbia, Quebec and Ontario would utterly dominate the NHL, leaving nothing much for places like Nashville or Los Angeles. With that in mind, perhaps there is a flaw with the invite system and indeed how they do their brackets? If you want to allow people from other regions to qualify, why not do a draft with captains and etc? Either way it'll be korean domination but it gives us a "team" to get behind that "represents" the region.

FakeDeath

Malaysia6060 Posts

April 21 2013 09:04 GMT

#178

I heard many people saying the NA scene has to step it up.

But the truth is that they are a far cry from the Korean level.

Code A/B Koreans are already slaying all the NA pros.
I don't see much hope though.

Though I don't really mind since I want to see the best high level games anyway.
It would be better if all the NA spots go to Koreans anyway.

The better player gets the deserving spot.

mikkmagro

Malta1513 Posts

April 21 2013 09:05 GMT

#179

On April 21 2013 17:37 coverpunch wrote:
I will argue to the contrary of what seems to be the consensus complaint, that Koreans playing in WCS NA is bad for NA players. In fact, I think being exposed to Korean competition is better for the NA scene in the long run. If NA pros want to stay top notch, the bar today was set by Alicia, TheSTC, Crank, and Oz.

And honestly, if foreigners want to stand any chance at winning the whole thing, the real bar was set this last week in Code S by Roro, Taeja, Flash, Symbol, etc. I don't think it would be outrageous to say those Code S players are another level above the NA qualifiers today.

Complaining that foreigners might stand a better chance or would have a better pro scene if they didn't know how high that bar is, IMO is ignorant. Sports is a meritocracy and fans ultimately want to see the highest quality of competition. Foreign players who want to get there should constantly be exposed to that level and pressure of play.

It's just not that simple. With the way things are, it is simply not possible for North Americans to defeat Koreans, ever. Firstly, there is simply no way for a North American to sustain himself until he becomes good enough to compete at the levels of the players you mentioned. Most go to college, or have a job, and have to play after they get home from their daily commute. The Koreans you mentioned, are already well established. They don't need to sustain themselves, because they play for a team who gives them a house to live in, and food to eat. Furthermore, they're exposed to the best practice environment possible. They have lag free access to the best ladder in the world, they live in a house with top notch players from all the different races with whom they can practice, exchange strategies etc, and someone like Oz also gets a legendary coach (not to mention secondary coaches) to help them perfect their skills and make sure not to slack. Without a similar infrastructure, it is simply not possible for foreigners to catch up. Period.

HereBeDragons

1429 Posts

April 21 2013 09:06 GMT

#180

On April 21 2013 17:51 ZenithM wrote:
One day I'll understand what "storylines" people are referring to.

Is it a phone line you can call in to listen to stories?

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