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Active: 12225 users

Four Koreans qualify from WCS AM Prelim Day 1 - Page 25

Forum Index > SC2 General
485 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 23 24 25 All
rename
Profile Joined February 2012
Estonia329 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-23 16:06:25
April 23 2013 15:55 GMT
#481
On April 23 2013 19:25 TigerKarl wrote:
I don't understand why there's so many people that want to see Starcraft 2 declining, by allowing koreans to continue their dominance. It'll take a while longer until even the most vocal community members will understand that the lack of foreign players is hurting the growth of Starcraft 2 E-Sports on the big scale. Yet the vocal community members don't quite realise that their not producing the numbers, that are needed for growth, it's the casual players. They need to be drawn into the scene (few as they might be, due to Blizzards 20th century business model) to make it bigger, but right now the generation of players that bought HOTS are being lost, because everything about WCS has been the biggest joke in E-Sports so far. The production value is an insult. When these potential fans have finally lost their interest in the game, because they're not been offered good experiences like WCS Europe finals or MLG / RIOT like production values, they're just gone forever. So next try is Legacy of the void. Maybe then Blizzard, tournament organizers and vocal community figures have figured out that everything about this WCS model is going to make the game decline.
But maybe by then teams and players have figured out how to actually be good at the game. There's nothing genetic about koreans, that makes them better players. It's willpower and infrastructure. Remember how TB got insulted for calling the EG Lair what it was then and is at this moment, a frat house? Well, how did that turn out, with EG now having to build another house that is actually supposed to be used for training?
Yet casual viewers don't actually need foreign players on the same level as koreans to be excited for national leagues, just look at sports in general, where national leagues are sustainable business models. There's nothing wrong about a exclusively north american league. Germany has one, which still exists, despite suffering from horrible production value and marketing.
So imagine a world, where foreigners actually develope the willpower to be good at this game, so they'll actually be able to beat koreans. Then SC2 is going to explode, but up until then we need a sustainable national league system with production value to draw in the casuals that make for the big numbers and growth. Oh and Blizzard need to arrive in the 21st century.


There is nothing wrong about an exclusively north american league.

There is lot of wrong about banning players from the most elite tournament in the region based on where they are from.

<edit> the following part is not a reply to the above post, but to many others that keep bringing up the prizemoney raid part</edit>

And about the "they take the prizemoney and go back to Seoul stuff" : As WCS goes on the players will have to move to their WCS region cause the 2 week lan period for NA Season 1 is just the beginning, and the aim is to have premier league 100% LAN.

Perhaps the full GSL 8 week schedule ( Week1-3 Ro32, Week 4-5 Ro16, Week 6 Ro8, Week7 Ro4, Week8 Finals ) wont arrive this year, but in US its already online for 2 weeks, or pretty much 20-25% of the season.

4 week offline part is very plausible for season 2 - how do you play from korea then, huh?
Branman
Profile Joined March 2013
United States203 Posts
April 23 2013 18:49 GMT
#482
On April 23 2013 16:43 TiberiusAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 06:34 Branman wrote:
With the Koreans entering the NA tournament, they basically come in and take the money from our own scene without contributing anything themselves. Because Koreans take up all of the spots in NA tourneys at all levels, there's 0 chance for a similar structure in NA to evolve. There's no incentive for any up and comers to actually go all in and actually train all the time because they start out at a disadvantage and there's no way to actually catch up because you get to practice on the NA ladder. The highest-placing NA player is an immigrant who is lucky enough to have a very marketable personality and has a team that allows him to commit to practicing.

I disagree, for at least three reasons.

First, numbers, Koreans currently have less than half (13/32) of the spots in premier (liquidpedia), and looking at the lower brackets for the premiere qualifier (remember 9th-40th place get invites--perhaps others will too, and I sorta doubt MLG/Blizz will invite more Koreans) means that Koreans will probably be in the minority for challenger league too. That is hardly "all of the spots in NA tourneys at all levels".

Second, building on the former reason, this season is the worst that it will be in terms of Korean advantage, because as time goes on the AM and EU events will be moved from online to the studios, making participation from Korean team houses impractical. Korean long-distance participation should only decrease over time. Combine that with the fact that Koreans aren't even the majority now. The current season's system is the worst it will get, and it will improve over time, assuming you don't mind Koreans residing in AM to play in AM (which I think is fair).

Third on taking "the money from our scene without contributing anything themselves", glance at what teams those Koreans in AM premier are on. Aside from Nestea, they are from EG, Liquid, Complexity, Axiom, Root...see the pattern? These are foreign teams. Aren't Korean players on foreign teams contributing to our teams (and thus to our scene)? Do we want to force our teams to always leave their Korean players in Korea? How will that help the Korean players contribute to their foreign teammates in AM/EU (which, by the way, will include the up-and-comers mentioned, because our teams are looking to and actively picking up new foreign talent as they find it)?

Long term, I should hope we want our teams here in our regions, especially with any of their Korean players who want to come. But we won't get them here any faster by banning them all at the start of season 1. Hence this gradual transition from "Korean (and other countries'!) players can play from home online a bit more this first season." to the eventual "Time to move to the EU/AM equivalents of Seoul (i.e. whatever city the studio and team houses end up in on each continent) so you can play offline as much as you are required if you want to compete in the global league."

I'm not claiming this was the best system; there are good arguments for alternatives. But the system we've been given is neither Korean theft nor the makings of the total Korean takeover the quoted poster describes.


I mostly agree. Long term it will equal out. I was just trying to address why people are upset about it. Just because it is something that should fix itself in a year doesn't mean people can't be upset about it now.

However, the point about the foreign teams is misplaced. They don't necessarily have to develop the NA scene. That's just their key market that they are selling to. For example, Axiom has specifically said that they don't plan on signing any foreigners; they just plan on focusing on Koreans. With EG, I don't think Coach Park is working with their NA or EU based players; the Suppy to Korea news release specifically said "he'll be going to Korea to train under Coach Park." Another example with EG, they could have signed foreigners to go play in proleague, but they sign Oz, Revival, and Alive (though to be fair to EG, Scarlett said that EG was interested in signing her in an interview).

Koreans on NA/EU teams serve as a way to gain exposure by placing highly in tournaments; the foreigners on these teams serve to gain exposure through streaming and being personalities. EG has said that they are changing their approach toward the NA team house, so we'll hope that they will succeed in getting better tournament results out of their NA-based players.
thepotatoman
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States73 Posts
April 23 2013 19:07 GMT
#483
On April 23 2013 15:47 thepuppyassassin wrote:
"Q: You are at a disadvantage not earning points from foreign tournaments.
A: It's not something we can do anything about. All we can do is clear our minds, and do the best in our given situation. I don't think about it as a disadvantage, I just try do the best from where I am."
-Flash

Americans need to stop whining about incentives. Greatness isn't something achieved with handouts, it's something fought for, tooth and nail.


If you're a player, you're right, that is the mindset you want to have.

But for fans and for businesses there's no point in such a mindset. We're allowed to say that there's a gap here that is only going to get bigger and it needs to be addressed before it gets so ridiculous the foreign scene just dies altogether. Not for the players sakes, but for our sakes.
Madars
Profile Joined December 2011
Latvia166 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-24 12:43:52
April 24 2013 09:29 GMT
#484
On April 22 2013 23:14 Bjarne wrote:
And YES, I WANT to see real NA Players compete in MLG Ro32.

When a player selects NA as his region, he is "real" NA player, right?
<3 Alexis Eusebio, Lee Shin Hyung, Choi Seong Hun, Joo Sung Wook, Jang Min Chul, Kim Yoo Jin, Lee Young Ho, Lee Shin Hyung, Yun Young Seo, Kim Joon Ho, Jeong Jong Hyeon, Eo Yoon Su, Johan Lucchesi, Ilyes Satouri
Madars
Profile Joined December 2011
Latvia166 Posts
April 24 2013 12:42 GMT
#485
On April 23 2013 06:17 skeldark wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2013 06:12 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:
On April 23 2013 05:58 skeldark wrote:
Its disgusting how much racism flooded over TL lately.

Is he Korean or "foreigner". Thats all what people care about.
And than the same people complain Koreans have no identity.
Well, hard to have an identity if big chunks of this community see only the race of a person.
Its a global online computer game. I don't understand why the country a player is born in, matters at all.

I love that there are Koreans in WCS NA and am more likely to watch now, but calling the Korean/foreigner distinction racism is fucking stupid.


If you dont know what racism is look it up first.
Or here a more simple way:

Go throw the post in all the "korean"-threads and just replace the words foreigner and korean, with black and white.
Then read them again.

Its good old plain racism ... wearing a new suit.


All I see is SPAM vs SPAM, and SPAM is not a race!
<3 Alexis Eusebio, Lee Shin Hyung, Choi Seong Hun, Joo Sung Wook, Jang Min Chul, Kim Yoo Jin, Lee Young Ho, Lee Shin Hyung, Yun Young Seo, Kim Joon Ho, Jeong Jong Hyeon, Eo Yoon Su, Johan Lucchesi, Ilyes Satouri
GOLIQUIDDOER5299
Profile Joined April 2013
United Kingdom2 Posts
April 25 2013 00:24 GMT
#486
this is so good we can find out more about lots of players and it show you how good they are it is so good /what do you think people
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