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Kasu
United Kingdom345 Posts
On April 22 2013 23:10 Bagi wrote: Demuslim was considered an EU player since he played in WCS EU last year and is still a UK citizen AFAIK. Of the invited players 16 were from the Americas and 8 were from other regions. Ah thanks. Makes sense as the EU invites (Terran, anyways) are rather more stacked. | ||
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Branman
United States203 Posts
On April 22 2013 23:16 geokilla wrote: You mean MLG fucked up. Polt is a KR player with KR citizenship (I think). He's only in USA for school. He played in WCS Korea too last year I think. Yet he's seeded into WCS NA. Ya I didn't know DeMuslim was living in USA until recently, but MLG should've known right? Even if they didn't, they should've fixed the seeding and given him a seed. He's the best foreigner on NA ladder after all. Giving Polt a seed just like NA-citizen players is perfectly fine because Polt is a NA resident and plays on the NA ladder. The outrage should be about the idea that players who are foreign to your scene just show up and take money out of the scene back to theirs. No matter how hard you practice on the NA ladder, you won't be ready to play against the players that actually qualified because they practice on the Korean ladder. EDIT: That said Demu should have also been considered a NA resident. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On April 22 2013 23:16 geokilla wrote: You mean MLG fucked up. Polt is a KR player with KR citizenship (I think). He's only in USA for school. He played in WCS Korea too last year I think. Yet he's seeded into WCS NA. Ya I didn't know DeMuslim was living in USA until recently, but MLG should've known right? Even if they didn't, they should've fixed the seeding and given him a seed. He's the best foreigner on NA ladder after all. Polt was one of the 8 invites from other regions. If you look at the list its 5 top Koreans, Sen, Moonglade and Snute. If Demuslim would have better results than any of them, he would have qualified, but he doesn't. Just being good on ladder only gets you so far. | ||
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Branman
United States203 Posts
On April 22 2013 23:29 Bagi wrote: Polt was one of the 8 invites from other regions. If you look at the list its 5 top Koreans, Sen, Moonglade and Snute. If Demuslim would have better results than any of them, he would have qualified, but he doesn't. Just being good on ladder only gets you so far. I think everyone agrees with how MLG picked from the lists. However, most people upset at this decision think that they lists were made incorrectly. If you live in NA, practice in NA, and play for an NA team, then you should be considered an NA player subject to NA invites. The 8 spots for "outside of NA" should be reserved for people who don't actually live in NA. | ||
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TheShimmy
United States1808 Posts
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j4vz
Canada976 Posts
On April 23 2013 02:21 TheShimmy wrote: The remaining rounds begin tonight at 8 correct? they already have been played and everyone know the result, but yes if you dont know yet... | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
On April 22 2013 14:43 rename wrote: Are you joking? Every EG foreigner earns much more salary, prize money and glory compared to any korean with similar skill level. PS, im not saying that they dont deserve it - its a good thing they can actually make somewhat of a living without having to be the very best. I just havent seen anything to back up the "everybody from korea can devote 100% on the game EZ " claim. You're arguing a straw man. No one wants to be a dude who maybe wins some matches in Code A. Aspiring pro gamers want to be the best. And at the highest level, Korean players make more money from salary, endorsements and prize purse. It's not close. Even at the highest end of foreigner salaries - probably Stephano and Huk and Idra before renegotiation - they aren't making any more than half of what Flash makes, or what Moon made. And none of the foreign players have close to the level of exposure and brand recognition that Flash, Boxer, Nada, Jaedong and the other legendary Korean players have. The rewards for being at the top of the Korean scene are much, much greater than anywhere else. | ||
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hZCube
87 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:34 j4vz wrote: they already have been played and everyone know the result, but yes if you dont know yet... So TheShimmy, you're wrong, and apparently everyone else is in the know but you, and you can watch tonight if somehow you haven't got access to the results ahead of time, which he's frankly amazed at. (I think that's why he put the elipissis at the end, complete shock that you don't know results ahead of public performances?) Or, put as a more gentler, less abrasive answer. Yes, you are right, the rounds begin at 8. | ||
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Elitios
France164 Posts
1.- if the koreans can get over lag issues to stomp NA players, that means that NA player can now train on KR server without lag being that big an issue. That will surely improve the level of top NA players. 2.-The koreans who belong to NA team should be encouraged to help their fellow NA players to improve (at least it seems to make sense), if it isn't the case, they belong to said team in name only, which is something to think about at least. 3.- you can't really blame the format, since no Korean also means that ratings will drop, so they had to have a system which allowed koreans to enter... The fact that it was so one sided, blizz(MLG) could do nothing about. 4.- if there is such a skill gap, maybe it's better that it turns out that way since players that can't stand up to koreans have no place in the world champinship anyways. 5.- from what I saw, Na players didn't perform that badly, but they lack the decisiveness of koreans, so maybe this result will challenge them to crank it up in the next qualifier? | ||
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
On April 23 2013 05:44 Elitios wrote: It is kind of bad for the americas to be represented by koreans, but also maybe this will be a kick in the butt: 1.- if the koreans can get over lag issues to stomp NA players, that means that NA player can now train on KR server without lag being that big an issue. That will surely improve the level of top NA players. 2.-The koreans who belong to NA team should be encouraged to help their fellow NA players to improve (at least it seems to make sense), if it isn't the case, they belong to said team in name only, which is something to think about at least. 3.- you can't really blame the format, since no Korean also means that ratings will drop, so they had to have a system which allowed koreans to enter... The fact that it was so one sided, blizz could do nothing about. 4.- if there is such a skill gap, maybe it's better that it turns out that way since players that can't stand up to koreans have no place in the world champinship anyways. 5.- from what I saw, Na players didn't perform that badly, but they lack the decisiveness of koreans, so maybe this result will challenge them to crank it up in the next qualifier? I just want to address point 3. It's pretty common knowledge that Korean v Korean provides the worst ratings, and until MLG, WCS Europe had the highest viewer count of any tournament. | ||
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Bumblebee
3237 Posts
On April 23 2013 03:49 LuckoftheIrish wrote: You're arguing a straw man. No one wants to be a dude who maybe wins some matches in Code A. Aspiring pro gamers want to be the best. And at the highest level, Korean players make more money from salary, endorsements and prize purse. It's not close. Even at the highest end of foreigner salaries - probably Stephano and Huk and Idra before renegotiation - they aren't making any more than half of what Flash makes, or what Moon made. And none of the foreign players have close to the level of exposure and brand recognition that Flash, Boxer, Nada, Jaedong and the other legendary Korean players have. The rewards for being at the top of the Korean scene are much, much greater than anywhere else. You're right and wrong at the same time. The very top of the Koreans do have some very neat salaries and stuff, but they're arguing more of a general sense of Korea and they do earn considerably less, if anything at all, than people on foreign teams. | ||
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Elitios
France164 Posts
On April 23 2013 05:47 LuckoftheIrish wrote: I just want to address point 3. It's pretty common knowledge that Korean v Korean provides the worst ratings, and until MLG, WCS Europe had the highest viewer count of any tournament. Sure but I don't think that Catz vs Illusion (as an example) would attract the kind of audience WCS is needing either. I think we all agree that it needs to be koreans vs "foreigners". Which is my point. You can't apply quotas to tourneys, if you allow the koreans to enter, you must know that they will be doing their best to win... | ||
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goiflin
Canada1218 Posts
On April 23 2013 05:47 LuckoftheIrish wrote: I just want to address point 3. It's pretty common knowledge that Korean v Korean provides the worst ratings, and until MLG, WCS Europe had the highest viewer count of any tournament. Korean v Korean doesn't provide the WORST ratings, just lower than Korean v Hyped Foreigner or Hyped Foreigner v Hyped Foreigner. No name foreigner v No name foreigner is bound to produce less viewers than almost any two koreans. | ||
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
Is he Korean or "foreigner". Thats all what people care about. And than the same people complain Koreans have no identity. Well, hard to have an identity if big chunks of this community see only the race of a person. Its a global online computer game. I don't understand why the country a player is born in, matters at all. | ||
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Griffins
United States98 Posts
On April 23 2013 05:58 skeldark wrote: Its disgusting how much racism flooded over TL lately. Is he Korean of foreigner. Thats all what people care about. And than the same people complain Koreans have no identity. Well prity hard to have an identity if big chunks of this community see only the race of a person. I don't understand why people care for the country someone is born in an global computer game. It's always sort of been there, but the region lock is causing people to draw lines in the sand. I agree with your last point, global play should mean less boundaries. | ||
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Yorke
England881 Posts
On April 23 2013 05:58 skeldark wrote: Its disgusting how much racism flooded over TL lately. Is he Korean or "foreigner". Thats all what people care about. And than the same people complain Koreans have no identity. Well, hard to have an identity if big chunks of this community see only the race of a person. Its a global online computer game. I don't understand why the country a player is born in, matters at all. I love that there are Koreans in WCS NA and am more likely to watch now, but calling the Korean/foreigner distinction racism is fucking stupid. | ||
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
On April 23 2013 06:12 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote: I love that there are Koreans in WCS NA and am more likely to watch now, but calling the Korean/foreigner distinction racism is fucking stupid. If you dont know what racism is look it up first. Or here a more simple way: Go throw the post in all the "korean"-threads and just replace the words foreigner and korean, with black and white. Then read them again. Its good old plain racism ... wearing a new suit. | ||
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Branman
United States203 Posts
On April 23 2013 05:44 Elitios wrote: It is kind of bad for the americas to be represented by koreans, but also maybe this will be a kick in the butt: 1.- if the koreans can get over lag issues to stomp NA players, that means that NA player can now train on KR server without lag being that big an issue. That will surely improve the level of top NA players. 2.-The koreans who belong to NA team should be encouraged to help their fellow NA players to improve (at least it seems to make sense), if it isn't the case, they belong to said team in name only, which is something to think about at least. 3.- you can't really blame the format, since no Korean also means that ratings will drop, so they had to have a system which allowed koreans to enter... The fact that it was so one sided, blizz(MLG) could do nothing about. 4.- if there is such a skill gap, maybe it's better that it turns out that way since players that can't stand up to koreans have no place in the world champinship anyways. 5.- from what I saw, Na players didn't perform that badly, but they lack the decisiveness of koreans, so maybe this result will challenge them to crank it up in the next qualifier? On point 1, it's a question of where the US players are located-- Internet infrastructure means a lot. The physical location of the US battle.net servers are in Southern California. They are connected to an internet backbone (cogent) and should have great access to the undersea cables to Asia. If Korean internet is good (and everyone says it's pretty good), then the backbones in Seoul will have pretty good latency to the undersea cables that connect to NA. Conversely, a random American on Comcast or AT&T will have a much larger amount of hops to even reach the routers by the undersea cables. In network latency, the time spent traversing a physical distance has less to do with the distance and more to do with the number of routers it must bounce between (obvious exception for satellite signals). This is one of the big reasons EG is moving from Arizona to San Francisco. If they can get a good internet provider with good access to backbone, they could significantly decrease their ping to the KR bnet server. You can do a traceroute to see what your latency to the KR server would be. Sitting in Atlanta on AT&T internet, I have about 224 ms ping to the KR bnet server. So a theoretical opponent would be able to take twice as many turns as I could (while SC2 is realtime, it only evaluates commands every .1 seconds). https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/performing-a-traceroute Of course, all of this is speculative and would be dependent on the actual implementation of internet in their houses. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
On April 23 2013 05:58 skeldark wrote: Its disgusting how much racism flooded over TL lately. Is he Korean or "foreigner". Thats all what people care about. And than the same people complain Koreans have no identity. Well, hard to have an identity if big chunks of this community see only the race of a person. Its a global online computer game. I don't understand why the country a player is born in, matters at all. If a top (or the best) foreign player cant speak english like the koreans, then he is in the same boat like the koreans. Its all about english language. | ||
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