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The fact that Koreans can qualify through NA is stupid I feel. Just give Korea more WCS slots and let the actual North Americans play each other for fewer spots.
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On April 22 2013 05:54 Malpractice.248 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 05:52 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:47 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:21 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:00 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 04:53 Mauldo wrote:
The "step up your game" argument is atrocious. After so many years of having little to no infrastructure, despite the constant promise of such, NA is behind. Everyone admits it. But then Koreans come through and roll a qualifier for a region that they speak neither of the languages for (English OR Spanish), nor do they live or even visit the region for longer than it takes to roll through an MLG, and the argument is "Well, play better."
No. I'm sick of it. Why should NA players grind to play better when the infrastructure they were promised by no fewer than three different companies (MLG, IPL, NASL) is non-existent? There was never any reason to grind out to play better unless you were on an international team like TL or EG because the local NA tournaments were flooded with Koreans (despite the fact that we were promised every time that we would have our own tourney to "help grow the scene). So lower-level up and comers fell away, and with that a decent ladder.
And now we finally have a chance at a league all our own, to give everyone in NA a chance to fight back, and BAM. MLG shits on us. And their defense is "get better." How? By playing qualifiers against players we never see on the ladder? By playing against people who train in Korea, log onto their NA accounts for as long as it takes to play the qualifier, then go back to their Proleague match?
The argument that "Koreans flooding in for easy money will make NA better" is absurd. It's not like the Premier League players are forced to play NA ladder, or even live here, so how does it make NA pro-players better? By giving them the one-off chance to play the Koreans in a 512 man qualifier? NASL did more for that argument (Make regular, weekly games against Code S Koreans that NA players wouldn't normally get) than anything the now WCS Wherever You Want will ever do.
The worst part is, what about if they ever want the players to live in NA, ala LCS? The Koreans will just give up their spots, and we'll end up with players who never made it to Premier League getting scraps that they never qualified for, thereby further wrecking the legitimacy of the tournament. I can see it now, front page of Reddit. "Lol, half of WCS NA Premier League pulled from Challenger's because Koreans forfeit spots due to residency concerns." Little to no infrastructure? Houses were bought, players were sent overseas. (Idra, Scarlett, Major, Huk, Jinro to name a few) Environments were given (Look at the EG house. Exactly like a korean one, just 10x the size) -- They went to work out, practice 4-6 hours a day, had fun with eachother etc. They dont buy into the korean culture. Koreans practice harder, harder work ethic. Theres also global play if they wanted to play against koreans. Theres even koreans LIVING here, they could practice against if they got in touch. Dont play the card that options arent there. There ARE options. Just no one takes full advantage of them (aside from a few, who takes games off/beat koreans, or flat out MOVE to korea) I dont care about nationality. I care about putting the best players on the field. Thats it. EDIT: So, I have an important question. MLG, IPL preached the same infrastructure thing for league, as well. How come league players can keep up, and beat, players from korea, EU etc? Whats different? Because they practice 8-10 Hours a day at curse. Much like koreans do. They have to travel for MLG and all the other tournaments, and when they face koreans, they do just fine. League is huge in korea. Far bigger than SC. Why is there a disparity in SC, but not league? Dont blame the system. Blame the players for not committing enough. How on earth are people supposed to commit 10-12 hours a day to this game if they can't make a living off of it. In Korea, SC2 is an accepted profession, and if you're good like Life, MC, or mvp you actually make a lot of money. No NA players are making enough off of tournaments or team salaries to truly spend all of their time on this game. HuK might be, but that's about it. For IdrA, ROOT players, qxc, etc to make money they have to waste time streaming and doing ads and keeping their names out there, otherwise they'd go broke. Not only that, they need to get an education because throwing their lives in the esports basket when they have almost no shot at getting tournament money ever in a job that isn't culturally accepted is a terrible idea. To blame this on the players is ridiculous. Risking their livelihoods/education/future in order to maybe beat some Koreans in a NA QUALIFIER is absurd. How many people arent in college, living paycheck to paycheck, not really saving money, hoping to go back soon? Or just not going yet? Or graduated yet have no job? Or go into military for 4 years, getting nothing out of it. They arent throwing away their lives by going "ima dedicate myself for a year, in a house, where they PAY MY WAY, and see if i have a shot" People take a year off ALL the time. This wouldnt risk anything long term. You can keep spitting out NA qualifier, and emphasizing NA, but its for the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. They should have named regions Purple Blue and Pink for all i care. Its a server. And if someone wants to come to this server to play, gl hf. Why arent you guys raging that chinese are trying to play, instead of them playing in KR? Instead, youre raging THEY DIDNT GET TO PLAY OMG SOME DIAMOND GOT THE SPOT. Seriously? Use some common sense. You've got to be kidding if you think people living paycheck to paycheck or just graduated and have no job can afford to take a year off to play Starcraft 2. You have to be pretty privileged, or not seen much of the world if you think just anyone out there can take a year off to play starcraft. Do you think anyone living in a team house pays rent? Or do they have sponsors that pay for it?
You realize you don't just get into a team house, right? Like you don't just email a team and say "I want to be a Starcraft player, let me into your team house for free". You have to actually make an impact on the scene, like making code S (IdrA), winning tournaments (HuK), or all killing IM (qxc) to get into a team house where you actually get a salary/rent paid for.
It'd be nice if that wasn't a requirement though, you know, like if they had some NA tournament where they could determine who the best players in North America were? Maybe then those best players could get into a house and train the way you think they should.
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On April 22 2013 05:54 Malpractice.248 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 05:52 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:47 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:21 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:00 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 04:53 Mauldo wrote:
The "step up your game" argument is atrocious. After so many years of having little to no infrastructure, despite the constant promise of such, NA is behind. Everyone admits it. But then Koreans come through and roll a qualifier for a region that they speak neither of the languages for (English OR Spanish), nor do they live or even visit the region for longer than it takes to roll through an MLG, and the argument is "Well, play better."
No. I'm sick of it. Why should NA players grind to play better when the infrastructure they were promised by no fewer than three different companies (MLG, IPL, NASL) is non-existent? There was never any reason to grind out to play better unless you were on an international team like TL or EG because the local NA tournaments were flooded with Koreans (despite the fact that we were promised every time that we would have our own tourney to "help grow the scene). So lower-level up and comers fell away, and with that a decent ladder.
And now we finally have a chance at a league all our own, to give everyone in NA a chance to fight back, and BAM. MLG shits on us. And their defense is "get better." How? By playing qualifiers against players we never see on the ladder? By playing against people who train in Korea, log onto their NA accounts for as long as it takes to play the qualifier, then go back to their Proleague match?
The argument that "Koreans flooding in for easy money will make NA better" is absurd. It's not like the Premier League players are forced to play NA ladder, or even live here, so how does it make NA pro-players better? By giving them the one-off chance to play the Koreans in a 512 man qualifier? NASL did more for that argument (Make regular, weekly games against Code S Koreans that NA players wouldn't normally get) than anything the now WCS Wherever You Want will ever do.
The worst part is, what about if they ever want the players to live in NA, ala LCS? The Koreans will just give up their spots, and we'll end up with players who never made it to Premier League getting scraps that they never qualified for, thereby further wrecking the legitimacy of the tournament. I can see it now, front page of Reddit. "Lol, half of WCS NA Premier League pulled from Challenger's because Koreans forfeit spots due to residency concerns." Little to no infrastructure? Houses were bought, players were sent overseas. (Idra, Scarlett, Major, Huk, Jinro to name a few) Environments were given (Look at the EG house. Exactly like a korean one, just 10x the size) -- They went to work out, practice 4-6 hours a day, had fun with eachother etc. They dont buy into the korean culture. Koreans practice harder, harder work ethic. Theres also global play if they wanted to play against koreans. Theres even koreans LIVING here, they could practice against if they got in touch. Dont play the card that options arent there. There ARE options. Just no one takes full advantage of them (aside from a few, who takes games off/beat koreans, or flat out MOVE to korea) I dont care about nationality. I care about putting the best players on the field. Thats it. EDIT: So, I have an important question. MLG, IPL preached the same infrastructure thing for league, as well. How come league players can keep up, and beat, players from korea, EU etc? Whats different? Because they practice 8-10 Hours a day at curse. Much like koreans do. They have to travel for MLG and all the other tournaments, and when they face koreans, they do just fine. League is huge in korea. Far bigger than SC. Why is there a disparity in SC, but not league? Dont blame the system. Blame the players for not committing enough. How on earth are people supposed to commit 10-12 hours a day to this game if they can't make a living off of it. In Korea, SC2 is an accepted profession, and if you're good like Life, MC, or mvp you actually make a lot of money. No NA players are making enough off of tournaments or team salaries to truly spend all of their time on this game. HuK might be, but that's about it. For IdrA, ROOT players, qxc, etc to make money they have to waste time streaming and doing ads and keeping their names out there, otherwise they'd go broke. Not only that, they need to get an education because throwing their lives in the esports basket when they have almost no shot at getting tournament money ever in a job that isn't culturally accepted is a terrible idea. To blame this on the players is ridiculous. Risking their livelihoods/education/future in order to maybe beat some Koreans in a NA QUALIFIER is absurd. How many people arent in college, living paycheck to paycheck, not really saving money, hoping to go back soon? Or just not going yet? Or graduated yet have no job? Or go into military for 4 years, getting nothing out of it. They arent throwing away their lives by going "ima dedicate myself for a year, in a house, where they PAY MY WAY, and see if i have a shot" People take a year off ALL the time. This wouldnt risk anything long term. You can keep spitting out NA qualifier, and emphasizing NA, but its for the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. They should have named regions Purple Blue and Pink for all i care. Its a server. And if someone wants to come to this server to play, gl hf. Why arent you guys raging that chinese are trying to play, instead of them playing in KR? Instead, youre raging THEY DIDNT GET TO PLAY OMG SOME DIAMOND GOT THE SPOT. Seriously? Use some common sense. You've got to be kidding if you think people living paycheck to paycheck or just graduated and have no job can afford to take a year off to play Starcraft 2. You have to be pretty privileged, or not seen much of the world if you think just anyone out there can take a year off to play starcraft. Do you think anyone living in a team house pays rent? Or do they have sponsors that pay for it?
Which is why Koreans can do well. They can move into a teamhouse and train. Americans don't have that opportunity. It's a lot easier to commit a year or two if you have someone paying for your housing and meals (and health insurance).
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On April 22 2013 06:00 Branman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 05:54 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:52 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:47 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:21 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:00 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 04:53 Mauldo wrote:
The "step up your game" argument is atrocious. After so many years of having little to no infrastructure, despite the constant promise of such, NA is behind. Everyone admits it. But then Koreans come through and roll a qualifier for a region that they speak neither of the languages for (English OR Spanish), nor do they live or even visit the region for longer than it takes to roll through an MLG, and the argument is "Well, play better."
No. I'm sick of it. Why should NA players grind to play better when the infrastructure they were promised by no fewer than three different companies (MLG, IPL, NASL) is non-existent? There was never any reason to grind out to play better unless you were on an international team like TL or EG because the local NA tournaments were flooded with Koreans (despite the fact that we were promised every time that we would have our own tourney to "help grow the scene). So lower-level up and comers fell away, and with that a decent ladder.
And now we finally have a chance at a league all our own, to give everyone in NA a chance to fight back, and BAM. MLG shits on us. And their defense is "get better." How? By playing qualifiers against players we never see on the ladder? By playing against people who train in Korea, log onto their NA accounts for as long as it takes to play the qualifier, then go back to their Proleague match?
The argument that "Koreans flooding in for easy money will make NA better" is absurd. It's not like the Premier League players are forced to play NA ladder, or even live here, so how does it make NA pro-players better? By giving them the one-off chance to play the Koreans in a 512 man qualifier? NASL did more for that argument (Make regular, weekly games against Code S Koreans that NA players wouldn't normally get) than anything the now WCS Wherever You Want will ever do.
The worst part is, what about if they ever want the players to live in NA, ala LCS? The Koreans will just give up their spots, and we'll end up with players who never made it to Premier League getting scraps that they never qualified for, thereby further wrecking the legitimacy of the tournament. I can see it now, front page of Reddit. "Lol, half of WCS NA Premier League pulled from Challenger's because Koreans forfeit spots due to residency concerns." Little to no infrastructure? Houses were bought, players were sent overseas. (Idra, Scarlett, Major, Huk, Jinro to name a few) Environments were given (Look at the EG house. Exactly like a korean one, just 10x the size) -- They went to work out, practice 4-6 hours a day, had fun with eachother etc. They dont buy into the korean culture. Koreans practice harder, harder work ethic. Theres also global play if they wanted to play against koreans. Theres even koreans LIVING here, they could practice against if they got in touch. Dont play the card that options arent there. There ARE options. Just no one takes full advantage of them (aside from a few, who takes games off/beat koreans, or flat out MOVE to korea) I dont care about nationality. I care about putting the best players on the field. Thats it. EDIT: So, I have an important question. MLG, IPL preached the same infrastructure thing for league, as well. How come league players can keep up, and beat, players from korea, EU etc? Whats different? Because they practice 8-10 Hours a day at curse. Much like koreans do. They have to travel for MLG and all the other tournaments, and when they face koreans, they do just fine. League is huge in korea. Far bigger than SC. Why is there a disparity in SC, but not league? Dont blame the system. Blame the players for not committing enough. How on earth are people supposed to commit 10-12 hours a day to this game if they can't make a living off of it. In Korea, SC2 is an accepted profession, and if you're good like Life, MC, or mvp you actually make a lot of money. No NA players are making enough off of tournaments or team salaries to truly spend all of their time on this game. HuK might be, but that's about it. For IdrA, ROOT players, qxc, etc to make money they have to waste time streaming and doing ads and keeping their names out there, otherwise they'd go broke. Not only that, they need to get an education because throwing their lives in the esports basket when they have almost no shot at getting tournament money ever in a job that isn't culturally accepted is a terrible idea. To blame this on the players is ridiculous. Risking their livelihoods/education/future in order to maybe beat some Koreans in a NA QUALIFIER is absurd. How many people arent in college, living paycheck to paycheck, not really saving money, hoping to go back soon? Or just not going yet? Or graduated yet have no job? Or go into military for 4 years, getting nothing out of it. They arent throwing away their lives by going "ima dedicate myself for a year, in a house, where they PAY MY WAY, and see if i have a shot" People take a year off ALL the time. This wouldnt risk anything long term. You can keep spitting out NA qualifier, and emphasizing NA, but its for the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. They should have named regions Purple Blue and Pink for all i care. Its a server. And if someone wants to come to this server to play, gl hf. Why arent you guys raging that chinese are trying to play, instead of them playing in KR? Instead, youre raging THEY DIDNT GET TO PLAY OMG SOME DIAMOND GOT THE SPOT. Seriously? Use some common sense. You've got to be kidding if you think people living paycheck to paycheck or just graduated and have no job can afford to take a year off to play Starcraft 2. You have to be pretty privileged, or not seen much of the world if you think just anyone out there can take a year off to play starcraft. Do you think anyone living in a team house pays rent? Or do they have sponsors that pay for it? Which is why Koreans can do well. They can move into a teamhouse and train. Americans don't have that opportunity. It's a lot easier to commit a year or two if you have someone paying for your housing and meals (and health insurance).
so Koreanas can just randomly get into a Teamhouse OKOKKOKOKOKOKOKO got it :D
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On April 22 2013 06:11 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:00 Branman wrote:On April 22 2013 05:54 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:52 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:47 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:21 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:00 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 04:53 Mauldo wrote:
The "step up your game" argument is atrocious. After so many years of having little to no infrastructure, despite the constant promise of such, NA is behind. Everyone admits it. But then Koreans come through and roll a qualifier for a region that they speak neither of the languages for (English OR Spanish), nor do they live or even visit the region for longer than it takes to roll through an MLG, and the argument is "Well, play better."
No. I'm sick of it. Why should NA players grind to play better when the infrastructure they were promised by no fewer than three different companies (MLG, IPL, NASL) is non-existent? There was never any reason to grind out to play better unless you were on an international team like TL or EG because the local NA tournaments were flooded with Koreans (despite the fact that we were promised every time that we would have our own tourney to "help grow the scene). So lower-level up and comers fell away, and with that a decent ladder.
And now we finally have a chance at a league all our own, to give everyone in NA a chance to fight back, and BAM. MLG shits on us. And their defense is "get better." How? By playing qualifiers against players we never see on the ladder? By playing against people who train in Korea, log onto their NA accounts for as long as it takes to play the qualifier, then go back to their Proleague match?
The argument that "Koreans flooding in for easy money will make NA better" is absurd. It's not like the Premier League players are forced to play NA ladder, or even live here, so how does it make NA pro-players better? By giving them the one-off chance to play the Koreans in a 512 man qualifier? NASL did more for that argument (Make regular, weekly games against Code S Koreans that NA players wouldn't normally get) than anything the now WCS Wherever You Want will ever do.
The worst part is, what about if they ever want the players to live in NA, ala LCS? The Koreans will just give up their spots, and we'll end up with players who never made it to Premier League getting scraps that they never qualified for, thereby further wrecking the legitimacy of the tournament. I can see it now, front page of Reddit. "Lol, half of WCS NA Premier League pulled from Challenger's because Koreans forfeit spots due to residency concerns." Little to no infrastructure? Houses were bought, players were sent overseas. (Idra, Scarlett, Major, Huk, Jinro to name a few) Environments were given (Look at the EG house. Exactly like a korean one, just 10x the size) -- They went to work out, practice 4-6 hours a day, had fun with eachother etc. They dont buy into the korean culture. Koreans practice harder, harder work ethic. Theres also global play if they wanted to play against koreans. Theres even koreans LIVING here, they could practice against if they got in touch. Dont play the card that options arent there. There ARE options. Just no one takes full advantage of them (aside from a few, who takes games off/beat koreans, or flat out MOVE to korea) I dont care about nationality. I care about putting the best players on the field. Thats it. EDIT: So, I have an important question. MLG, IPL preached the same infrastructure thing for league, as well. How come league players can keep up, and beat, players from korea, EU etc? Whats different? Because they practice 8-10 Hours a day at curse. Much like koreans do. They have to travel for MLG and all the other tournaments, and when they face koreans, they do just fine. League is huge in korea. Far bigger than SC. Why is there a disparity in SC, but not league? Dont blame the system. Blame the players for not committing enough. How on earth are people supposed to commit 10-12 hours a day to this game if they can't make a living off of it. In Korea, SC2 is an accepted profession, and if you're good like Life, MC, or mvp you actually make a lot of money. No NA players are making enough off of tournaments or team salaries to truly spend all of their time on this game. HuK might be, but that's about it. For IdrA, ROOT players, qxc, etc to make money they have to waste time streaming and doing ads and keeping their names out there, otherwise they'd go broke. Not only that, they need to get an education because throwing their lives in the esports basket when they have almost no shot at getting tournament money ever in a job that isn't culturally accepted is a terrible idea. To blame this on the players is ridiculous. Risking their livelihoods/education/future in order to maybe beat some Koreans in a NA QUALIFIER is absurd. How many people arent in college, living paycheck to paycheck, not really saving money, hoping to go back soon? Or just not going yet? Or graduated yet have no job? Or go into military for 4 years, getting nothing out of it. They arent throwing away their lives by going "ima dedicate myself for a year, in a house, where they PAY MY WAY, and see if i have a shot" People take a year off ALL the time. This wouldnt risk anything long term. You can keep spitting out NA qualifier, and emphasizing NA, but its for the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. They should have named regions Purple Blue and Pink for all i care. Its a server. And if someone wants to come to this server to play, gl hf. Why arent you guys raging that chinese are trying to play, instead of them playing in KR? Instead, youre raging THEY DIDNT GET TO PLAY OMG SOME DIAMOND GOT THE SPOT. Seriously? Use some common sense. You've got to be kidding if you think people living paycheck to paycheck or just graduated and have no job can afford to take a year off to play Starcraft 2. You have to be pretty privileged, or not seen much of the world if you think just anyone out there can take a year off to play starcraft. Do you think anyone living in a team house pays rent? Or do they have sponsors that pay for it? Which is why Koreans can do well. They can move into a teamhouse and train. Americans don't have that opportunity. It's a lot easier to commit a year or two if you have someone paying for your housing and meals (and health insurance). so Koreanas can just randomly get into a Teamhouse OKOKKOKOKOKOKOKO got it :D
This. As well as:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Suppy#Achievements
What did he win? Online shit. Anyone can do those.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Scarlett
She won online things, too.
Bly? Nothing.
Opportunities are there. These players "overcame the odds" and got sponsored. Why cant anyone else?
Sorry, Im not a fan of handouts.
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On April 22 2013 06:30 Malpractice.248 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:11 rasers wrote:On April 22 2013 06:00 Branman wrote:On April 22 2013 05:54 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:52 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:47 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:21 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:00 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 04:53 Mauldo wrote:
The "step up your game" argument is atrocious. After so many years of having little to no infrastructure, despite the constant promise of such, NA is behind. Everyone admits it. But then Koreans come through and roll a qualifier for a region that they speak neither of the languages for (English OR Spanish), nor do they live or even visit the region for longer than it takes to roll through an MLG, and the argument is "Well, play better."
No. I'm sick of it. Why should NA players grind to play better when the infrastructure they were promised by no fewer than three different companies (MLG, IPL, NASL) is non-existent? There was never any reason to grind out to play better unless you were on an international team like TL or EG because the local NA tournaments were flooded with Koreans (despite the fact that we were promised every time that we would have our own tourney to "help grow the scene). So lower-level up and comers fell away, and with that a decent ladder.
And now we finally have a chance at a league all our own, to give everyone in NA a chance to fight back, and BAM. MLG shits on us. And their defense is "get better." How? By playing qualifiers against players we never see on the ladder? By playing against people who train in Korea, log onto their NA accounts for as long as it takes to play the qualifier, then go back to their Proleague match?
The argument that "Koreans flooding in for easy money will make NA better" is absurd. It's not like the Premier League players are forced to play NA ladder, or even live here, so how does it make NA pro-players better? By giving them the one-off chance to play the Koreans in a 512 man qualifier? NASL did more for that argument (Make regular, weekly games against Code S Koreans that NA players wouldn't normally get) than anything the now WCS Wherever You Want will ever do.
The worst part is, what about if they ever want the players to live in NA, ala LCS? The Koreans will just give up their spots, and we'll end up with players who never made it to Premier League getting scraps that they never qualified for, thereby further wrecking the legitimacy of the tournament. I can see it now, front page of Reddit. "Lol, half of WCS NA Premier League pulled from Challenger's because Koreans forfeit spots due to residency concerns." Little to no infrastructure? Houses were bought, players were sent overseas. (Idra, Scarlett, Major, Huk, Jinro to name a few) Environments were given (Look at the EG house. Exactly like a korean one, just 10x the size) -- They went to work out, practice 4-6 hours a day, had fun with eachother etc. They dont buy into the korean culture. Koreans practice harder, harder work ethic. Theres also global play if they wanted to play against koreans. Theres even koreans LIVING here, they could practice against if they got in touch. Dont play the card that options arent there. There ARE options. Just no one takes full advantage of them (aside from a few, who takes games off/beat koreans, or flat out MOVE to korea) I dont care about nationality. I care about putting the best players on the field. Thats it. EDIT: So, I have an important question. MLG, IPL preached the same infrastructure thing for league, as well. How come league players can keep up, and beat, players from korea, EU etc? Whats different? Because they practice 8-10 Hours a day at curse. Much like koreans do. They have to travel for MLG and all the other tournaments, and when they face koreans, they do just fine. League is huge in korea. Far bigger than SC. Why is there a disparity in SC, but not league? Dont blame the system. Blame the players for not committing enough. How on earth are people supposed to commit 10-12 hours a day to this game if they can't make a living off of it. In Korea, SC2 is an accepted profession, and if you're good like Life, MC, or mvp you actually make a lot of money. No NA players are making enough off of tournaments or team salaries to truly spend all of their time on this game. HuK might be, but that's about it. For IdrA, ROOT players, qxc, etc to make money they have to waste time streaming and doing ads and keeping their names out there, otherwise they'd go broke. Not only that, they need to get an education because throwing their lives in the esports basket when they have almost no shot at getting tournament money ever in a job that isn't culturally accepted is a terrible idea. To blame this on the players is ridiculous. Risking their livelihoods/education/future in order to maybe beat some Koreans in a NA QUALIFIER is absurd. How many people arent in college, living paycheck to paycheck, not really saving money, hoping to go back soon? Or just not going yet? Or graduated yet have no job? Or go into military for 4 years, getting nothing out of it. They arent throwing away their lives by going "ima dedicate myself for a year, in a house, where they PAY MY WAY, and see if i have a shot" People take a year off ALL the time. This wouldnt risk anything long term. You can keep spitting out NA qualifier, and emphasizing NA, but its for the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. They should have named regions Purple Blue and Pink for all i care. Its a server. And if someone wants to come to this server to play, gl hf. Why arent you guys raging that chinese are trying to play, instead of them playing in KR? Instead, youre raging THEY DIDNT GET TO PLAY OMG SOME DIAMOND GOT THE SPOT. Seriously? Use some common sense. You've got to be kidding if you think people living paycheck to paycheck or just graduated and have no job can afford to take a year off to play Starcraft 2. You have to be pretty privileged, or not seen much of the world if you think just anyone out there can take a year off to play starcraft. Do you think anyone living in a team house pays rent? Or do they have sponsors that pay for it? Which is why Koreans can do well. They can move into a teamhouse and train. Americans don't have that opportunity. It's a lot easier to commit a year or two if you have someone paying for your housing and meals (and health insurance). so Koreanas can just randomly get into a Teamhouse OKOKKOKOKOKOKOKO got it :D This. As well as: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Suppy#AchievementsWhat did he win? Online shit. Anyone can do those. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ScarlettShe won online things, too. Bly? Nothing. Opportunities are there. These players "overcame the odds" and got sponsored. Why cant anyone else? Sorry, Im not a fan of handouts.
Scarlett got noticed because of her performance at IPL where she beat Bumblebee.Prime and then took a game of Oz in a really close series. The only reason she was able to participate in IPL was because she won a region locked IPL qualifier. She's a perfect example of why region lock is important and good for a developing scene. The only reason any of us know about Scarlett is because she won one of your so called "handouts".
Suppy similarly did well in region locked qualifiers in order to get into the NA WCS championships, and won an all foreigner qualifier (with the exception of Dragon, Nara, and Daisy who all play for European teams) to get into ASUS ROG Summer 2012. These results led to him getting picked up by EG. Again, he was able to get make it into the scene via region locked, mostly foreigner qualifiers.
Bly has been in the esports scene for years now. He made his name in WCIII and competed in WCG 2009 in China (I assume he made it by qualifying in a region-locked qualifier). He switched to SC2 after completing school and due to his WCIII skills he was picked up by Acer. He's been around for years and competing on a high level for years, he didn't just come out of nowhere.
EDIT: My favorite thing is how you cite Scarlett and Suppy's wins and then if you actually look at it almost all their actual tournament wins come from the region-locked, foreigner only events you've been bashing.
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I've talked to a lot of Korean players and I can confirm they get excellent health coverage.
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On April 22 2013 06:44 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:30 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 06:11 rasers wrote:On April 22 2013 06:00 Branman wrote:On April 22 2013 05:54 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:52 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:47 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:21 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:00 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 04:53 Mauldo wrote:
The "step up your game" argument is atrocious. After so many years of having little to no infrastructure, despite the constant promise of such, NA is behind. Everyone admits it. But then Koreans come through and roll a qualifier for a region that they speak neither of the languages for (English OR Spanish), nor do they live or even visit the region for longer than it takes to roll through an MLG, and the argument is "Well, play better."
No. I'm sick of it. Why should NA players grind to play better when the infrastructure they were promised by no fewer than three different companies (MLG, IPL, NASL) is non-existent? There was never any reason to grind out to play better unless you were on an international team like TL or EG because the local NA tournaments were flooded with Koreans (despite the fact that we were promised every time that we would have our own tourney to "help grow the scene). So lower-level up and comers fell away, and with that a decent ladder.
And now we finally have a chance at a league all our own, to give everyone in NA a chance to fight back, and BAM. MLG shits on us. And their defense is "get better." How? By playing qualifiers against players we never see on the ladder? By playing against people who train in Korea, log onto their NA accounts for as long as it takes to play the qualifier, then go back to their Proleague match?
The argument that "Koreans flooding in for easy money will make NA better" is absurd. It's not like the Premier League players are forced to play NA ladder, or even live here, so how does it make NA pro-players better? By giving them the one-off chance to play the Koreans in a 512 man qualifier? NASL did more for that argument (Make regular, weekly games against Code S Koreans that NA players wouldn't normally get) than anything the now WCS Wherever You Want will ever do.
The worst part is, what about if they ever want the players to live in NA, ala LCS? The Koreans will just give up their spots, and we'll end up with players who never made it to Premier League getting scraps that they never qualified for, thereby further wrecking the legitimacy of the tournament. I can see it now, front page of Reddit. "Lol, half of WCS NA Premier League pulled from Challenger's because Koreans forfeit spots due to residency concerns." Little to no infrastructure? Houses were bought, players were sent overseas. (Idra, Scarlett, Major, Huk, Jinro to name a few) Environments were given (Look at the EG house. Exactly like a korean one, just 10x the size) -- They went to work out, practice 4-6 hours a day, had fun with eachother etc. They dont buy into the korean culture. Koreans practice harder, harder work ethic. Theres also global play if they wanted to play against koreans. Theres even koreans LIVING here, they could practice against if they got in touch. Dont play the card that options arent there. There ARE options. Just no one takes full advantage of them (aside from a few, who takes games off/beat koreans, or flat out MOVE to korea) I dont care about nationality. I care about putting the best players on the field. Thats it. EDIT: So, I have an important question. MLG, IPL preached the same infrastructure thing for league, as well. How come league players can keep up, and beat, players from korea, EU etc? Whats different? Because they practice 8-10 Hours a day at curse. Much like koreans do. They have to travel for MLG and all the other tournaments, and when they face koreans, they do just fine. League is huge in korea. Far bigger than SC. Why is there a disparity in SC, but not league? Dont blame the system. Blame the players for not committing enough. How on earth are people supposed to commit 10-12 hours a day to this game if they can't make a living off of it. In Korea, SC2 is an accepted profession, and if you're good like Life, MC, or mvp you actually make a lot of money. No NA players are making enough off of tournaments or team salaries to truly spend all of their time on this game. HuK might be, but that's about it. For IdrA, ROOT players, qxc, etc to make money they have to waste time streaming and doing ads and keeping their names out there, otherwise they'd go broke. Not only that, they need to get an education because throwing their lives in the esports basket when they have almost no shot at getting tournament money ever in a job that isn't culturally accepted is a terrible idea. To blame this on the players is ridiculous. Risking their livelihoods/education/future in order to maybe beat some Koreans in a NA QUALIFIER is absurd. How many people arent in college, living paycheck to paycheck, not really saving money, hoping to go back soon? Or just not going yet? Or graduated yet have no job? Or go into military for 4 years, getting nothing out of it. They arent throwing away their lives by going "ima dedicate myself for a year, in a house, where they PAY MY WAY, and see if i have a shot" People take a year off ALL the time. This wouldnt risk anything long term. You can keep spitting out NA qualifier, and emphasizing NA, but its for the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. They should have named regions Purple Blue and Pink for all i care. Its a server. And if someone wants to come to this server to play, gl hf. Why arent you guys raging that chinese are trying to play, instead of them playing in KR? Instead, youre raging THEY DIDNT GET TO PLAY OMG SOME DIAMOND GOT THE SPOT. Seriously? Use some common sense. You've got to be kidding if you think people living paycheck to paycheck or just graduated and have no job can afford to take a year off to play Starcraft 2. You have to be pretty privileged, or not seen much of the world if you think just anyone out there can take a year off to play starcraft. Do you think anyone living in a team house pays rent? Or do they have sponsors that pay for it? Which is why Koreans can do well. They can move into a teamhouse and train. Americans don't have that opportunity. It's a lot easier to commit a year or two if you have someone paying for your housing and meals (and health insurance). so Koreanas can just randomly get into a Teamhouse OKOKKOKOKOKOKOKO got it :D This. As well as: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Suppy#AchievementsWhat did he win? Online shit. Anyone can do those. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ScarlettShe won online things, too. Bly? Nothing. Opportunities are there. These players "overcame the odds" and got sponsored. Why cant anyone else? Sorry, Im not a fan of handouts. Scarlett got noticed because of her performance at IPL where she beat Bumblebee.Prime and then took a game of Oz in a really close series. The only reason she was able to participate in IPL was because she won a region locked IPL qualifier. She's a perfect example of why region lock is important and good for a developing scene. The only reason any of us know about Scarlett is because she won one of your so called "handouts". Suppy similarly did well in region locked qualifiers in order to get into the NA WCS championships, and won an all foreigner qualifier (with the exception of Dragon, Nara, and Daisy who all play for European teams) to get into ASUS ROG Summer 2012. These results led to him getting picked up by EG. Again, he was able to get make it into the scene via region locked, mostly foreigner qualifiers. Bly has been in the esports scene for years now. He made his name in WCIII and competed in WCG 2009 in China (I assume he made it by qualifying in a region-locked qualifier). He switched to SC2 after completing school and I due to his WCIII skills he was picked up by Acer. He's been around for years and competing on a high level for years, he didn't just come out of nowhere. EDIT: My favorite thing is how you cite Scarlett and Suppy's wins and then if you actually look at it almost all their actual tournament wins come from the region-locked, foreigner only events you've been bashing.
This actually contradicts your previous arguement that its harder for foreigners to get into starcraft - since those two players actually received handouts which up&comer koreans dont have.
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On April 22 2013 06:46 rift wrote:
I've talked to a lot of Korean players and I can confirm they get excellent health coverage.
But that has nothing to do with Starcraft or e-sport or Korean Houses.
European players, Canadian players, well anyone but American Players would have a good health coverage by virtue of the societies they live in and not the largess or good will of their employers.
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On April 22 2013 06:58 rename wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:44 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 06:30 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 06:11 rasers wrote:On April 22 2013 06:00 Branman wrote:On April 22 2013 05:54 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:52 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:47 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:21 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:00 Malpractice.248 wrote:
[quote]
Little to no infrastructure? Houses were bought, players were sent overseas. (Idra, Scarlett, Major, Huk, Jinro to name a few)
Environments were given (Look at the EG house. Exactly like a korean one, just 10x the size) -- They went to work out, practice 4-6 hours a day, had fun with eachother etc.
They dont buy into the korean culture. Koreans practice harder, harder work ethic.
Theres also global play if they wanted to play against koreans. Theres even koreans LIVING here, they could practice against if they got in touch. Dont play the card that options arent there. There ARE options. Just no one takes full advantage of them (aside from a few, who takes games off/beat koreans, or flat out MOVE to korea)
I dont care about nationality. I care about putting the best players on the field. Thats it.
EDIT:
So, I have an important question. MLG, IPL preached the same infrastructure thing for league, as well. How come league players can keep up, and beat, players from korea, EU etc? Whats different? Because they practice 8-10 Hours a day at curse. Much like koreans do. They have to travel for MLG and all the other tournaments, and when they face koreans, they do just fine.
League is huge in korea. Far bigger than SC.
Why is there a disparity in SC, but not league?
Dont blame the system. Blame the players for not committing enough.
How on earth are people supposed to commit 10-12 hours a day to this game if they can't make a living off of it. In Korea, SC2 is an accepted profession, and if you're good like Life, MC, or mvp you actually make a lot of money. No NA players are making enough off of tournaments or team salaries to truly spend all of their time on this game. HuK might be, but that's about it. For IdrA, ROOT players, qxc, etc to make money they have to waste time streaming and doing ads and keeping their names out there, otherwise they'd go broke. Not only that, they need to get an education because throwing their lives in the esports basket when they have almost no shot at getting tournament money ever in a job that isn't culturally accepted is a terrible idea. To blame this on the players is ridiculous. Risking their livelihoods/education/future in order to maybe beat some Koreans in a NA QUALIFIER is absurd. How many people arent in college, living paycheck to paycheck, not really saving money, hoping to go back soon? Or just not going yet? Or graduated yet have no job? Or go into military for 4 years, getting nothing out of it. They arent throwing away their lives by going "ima dedicate myself for a year, in a house, where they PAY MY WAY, and see if i have a shot" People take a year off ALL the time. This wouldnt risk anything long term. You can keep spitting out NA qualifier, and emphasizing NA, but its for the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. They should have named regions Purple Blue and Pink for all i care. Its a server. And if someone wants to come to this server to play, gl hf. Why arent you guys raging that chinese are trying to play, instead of them playing in KR? Instead, youre raging THEY DIDNT GET TO PLAY OMG SOME DIAMOND GOT THE SPOT. Seriously? Use some common sense. You've got to be kidding if you think people living paycheck to paycheck or just graduated and have no job can afford to take a year off to play Starcraft 2. You have to be pretty privileged, or not seen much of the world if you think just anyone out there can take a year off to play starcraft. Do you think anyone living in a team house pays rent? Or do they have sponsors that pay for it? Which is why Koreans can do well. They can move into a teamhouse and train. Americans don't have that opportunity. It's a lot easier to commit a year or two if you have someone paying for your housing and meals (and health insurance). so Koreanas can just randomly get into a Teamhouse OKOKKOKOKOKOKOKO got it :D This. As well as: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Suppy#AchievementsWhat did he win? Online shit. Anyone can do those. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ScarlettShe won online things, too. Bly? Nothing. Opportunities are there. These players "overcame the odds" and got sponsored. Why cant anyone else? Sorry, Im not a fan of handouts. Scarlett got noticed because of her performance at IPL where she beat Bumblebee.Prime and then took a game of Oz in a really close series. The only reason she was able to participate in IPL was because she won a region locked IPL qualifier. She's a perfect example of why region lock is important and good for a developing scene. The only reason any of us know about Scarlett is because she won one of your so called "handouts". Suppy similarly did well in region locked qualifiers in order to get into the NA WCS championships, and won an all foreigner qualifier (with the exception of Dragon, Nara, and Daisy who all play for European teams) to get into ASUS ROG Summer 2012. These results led to him getting picked up by EG. Again, he was able to get make it into the scene via region locked, mostly foreigner qualifiers. Bly has been in the esports scene for years now. He made his name in WCIII and competed in WCG 2009 in China (I assume he made it by qualifying in a region-locked qualifier). He switched to SC2 after completing school and I due to his WCIII skills he was picked up by Acer. He's been around for years and competing on a high level for years, he didn't just come out of nowhere. EDIT: My favorite thing is how you cite Scarlett and Suppy's wins and then if you actually look at it almost all their actual tournament wins come from the region-locked, foreigner only events you've been bashing. This actually contradicts your previous arguement that its harder for foreigners to get into starcraft - since those two players actually received handouts which up&comer koreans dont have.
There are also Korea region-locked qualifiers for these events, they get the same handouts, with a much bigger payoff if they make it big in Korea.
My main argument though is that having WCS NA region locked would be a good thing for the scene as it allows for new Scarlett's and Suppy's to be exposed, get into team houses, and then do well at events with top Koreans.
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On April 22 2013 07:08 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 06:58 rename wrote:On April 22 2013 06:44 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 06:30 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 06:11 rasers wrote:On April 22 2013 06:00 Branman wrote:On April 22 2013 05:54 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:52 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:47 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:21 Swords wrote:
[quote]
How on earth are people supposed to commit 10-12 hours a day to this game if they can't make a living off of it. In Korea, SC2 is an accepted profession, and if you're good like Life, MC, or mvp you actually make a lot of money. No NA players are making enough off of tournaments or team salaries to truly spend all of their time on this game. HuK might be, but that's about it. For IdrA, ROOT players, qxc, etc to make money they have to waste time streaming and doing ads and keeping their names out there, otherwise they'd go broke. Not only that, they need to get an education because throwing their lives in the esports basket when they have almost no shot at getting tournament money ever in a job that isn't culturally accepted is a terrible idea.
To blame this on the players is ridiculous. Risking their livelihoods/education/future in order to maybe beat some Koreans in a NA QUALIFIER is absurd.
How many people arent in college, living paycheck to paycheck, not really saving money, hoping to go back soon? Or just not going yet? Or graduated yet have no job? Or go into military for 4 years, getting nothing out of it. They arent throwing away their lives by going "ima dedicate myself for a year, in a house, where they PAY MY WAY, and see if i have a shot" People take a year off ALL the time. This wouldnt risk anything long term. You can keep spitting out NA qualifier, and emphasizing NA, but its for the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP. They should have named regions Purple Blue and Pink for all i care. Its a server. And if someone wants to come to this server to play, gl hf. Why arent you guys raging that chinese are trying to play, instead of them playing in KR? Instead, youre raging THEY DIDNT GET TO PLAY OMG SOME DIAMOND GOT THE SPOT. Seriously? Use some common sense. You've got to be kidding if you think people living paycheck to paycheck or just graduated and have no job can afford to take a year off to play Starcraft 2. You have to be pretty privileged, or not seen much of the world if you think just anyone out there can take a year off to play starcraft. Do you think anyone living in a team house pays rent? Or do they have sponsors that pay for it? Which is why Koreans can do well. They can move into a teamhouse and train. Americans don't have that opportunity. It's a lot easier to commit a year or two if you have someone paying for your housing and meals (and health insurance). so Koreanas can just randomly get into a Teamhouse OKOKKOKOKOKOKOKO got it :D This. As well as: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Suppy#AchievementsWhat did he win? Online shit. Anyone can do those. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ScarlettShe won online things, too. Bly? Nothing. Opportunities are there. These players "overcame the odds" and got sponsored. Why cant anyone else? Sorry, Im not a fan of handouts. Scarlett got noticed because of her performance at IPL where she beat Bumblebee.Prime and then took a game of Oz in a really close series. The only reason she was able to participate in IPL was because she won a region locked IPL qualifier. She's a perfect example of why region lock is important and good for a developing scene. The only reason any of us know about Scarlett is because she won one of your so called "handouts". Suppy similarly did well in region locked qualifiers in order to get into the NA WCS championships, and won an all foreigner qualifier (with the exception of Dragon, Nara, and Daisy who all play for European teams) to get into ASUS ROG Summer 2012. These results led to him getting picked up by EG. Again, he was able to get make it into the scene via region locked, mostly foreigner qualifiers. Bly has been in the esports scene for years now. He made his name in WCIII and competed in WCG 2009 in China (I assume he made it by qualifying in a region-locked qualifier). He switched to SC2 after completing school and I due to his WCIII skills he was picked up by Acer. He's been around for years and competing on a high level for years, he didn't just come out of nowhere. EDIT: My favorite thing is how you cite Scarlett and Suppy's wins and then if you actually look at it almost all their actual tournament wins come from the region-locked, foreigner only events you've been bashing. This actually contradicts your previous arguement that its harder for foreigners to get into starcraft - since those two players actually received handouts which up&comer koreans dont have. There are also Korea region-locked qualifiers for these events, they get the same handouts, with a much bigger payoff if they make it big in Korea. My main argument though is that having WCS NA region locked would be a good thing for the scene as it allows for new Scarlett's and Suppy's to be exposed, get into team houses, and then do well at events with top Koreans.
What bigger payoffs?
Also what handouts - are you saying that up&coming koreans get some kind of benefit for playing with bunch of established korean pros in their "region locked" qualifiers - why are you against the same pros playing in NA/EU regions then?
The region lock part is moot. The LAN part will eventually force the region lock anyway.
Requiring some sort of residency documents instead of just "be present at the lan events" just screws with people who are in process of moving from one reagion or another.
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I was really looking forward to seeing more NA players make it. Oh well.
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On April 22 2013 07:43 rename wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 07:08 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 06:58 rename wrote:On April 22 2013 06:44 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 06:30 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 06:11 rasers wrote:On April 22 2013 06:00 Branman wrote:On April 22 2013 05:54 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:52 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 05:47 Malpractice.248 wrote:
[quote]
How many people arent in college, living paycheck to paycheck, not really saving money, hoping to go back soon?
Or just not going yet?
Or graduated yet have no job?
Or go into military for 4 years, getting nothing out of it.
They arent throwing away their lives by going "ima dedicate myself for a year, in a house, where they PAY MY WAY, and see if i have a shot"
People take a year off ALL the time. This wouldnt risk anything long term.
You can keep spitting out NA qualifier, and emphasizing NA, but its for the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.
They should have named regions Purple Blue and Pink for all i care. Its a server. And if someone wants to come to this server to play, gl hf.
Why arent you guys raging that chinese are trying to play, instead of them playing in KR?
Instead, youre raging THEY DIDNT GET TO PLAY OMG SOME DIAMOND GOT THE SPOT.
Seriously? Use some common sense. You've got to be kidding if you think people living paycheck to paycheck or just graduated and have no job can afford to take a year off to play Starcraft 2. You have to be pretty privileged, or not seen much of the world if you think just anyone out there can take a year off to play starcraft. Do you think anyone living in a team house pays rent? Or do they have sponsors that pay for it? Which is why Koreans can do well. They can move into a teamhouse and train. Americans don't have that opportunity. It's a lot easier to commit a year or two if you have someone paying for your housing and meals (and health insurance). so Koreanas can just randomly get into a Teamhouse OKOKKOKOKOKOKOKO got it :D This. As well as: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Suppy#AchievementsWhat did he win? Online shit. Anyone can do those. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ScarlettShe won online things, too. Bly? Nothing. Opportunities are there. These players "overcame the odds" and got sponsored. Why cant anyone else? Sorry, Im not a fan of handouts. Scarlett got noticed because of her performance at IPL where she beat Bumblebee.Prime and then took a game of Oz in a really close series. The only reason she was able to participate in IPL was because she won a region locked IPL qualifier. She's a perfect example of why region lock is important and good for a developing scene. The only reason any of us know about Scarlett is because she won one of your so called "handouts". Suppy similarly did well in region locked qualifiers in order to get into the NA WCS championships, and won an all foreigner qualifier (with the exception of Dragon, Nara, and Daisy who all play for European teams) to get into ASUS ROG Summer 2012. These results led to him getting picked up by EG. Again, he was able to get make it into the scene via region locked, mostly foreigner qualifiers. Bly has been in the esports scene for years now. He made his name in WCIII and competed in WCG 2009 in China (I assume he made it by qualifying in a region-locked qualifier). He switched to SC2 after completing school and I due to his WCIII skills he was picked up by Acer. He's been around for years and competing on a high level for years, he didn't just come out of nowhere. EDIT: My favorite thing is how you cite Scarlett and Suppy's wins and then if you actually look at it almost all their actual tournament wins come from the region-locked, foreigner only events you've been bashing. This actually contradicts your previous arguement that its harder for foreigners to get into starcraft - since those two players actually received handouts which up&comer koreans dont have. There are also Korea region-locked qualifiers for these events, they get the same handouts, with a much bigger payoff if they make it big in Korea. My main argument though is that having WCS NA region locked would be a good thing for the scene as it allows for new Scarlett's and Suppy's to be exposed, get into team houses, and then do well at events with top Koreans. What bigger payoffs? Also what handouts - are you saying that up&coming koreans get some kind of benefit for playing with bunch of established korean pros in their "region locked" qualifiers - why are you against the same pros playing in NA/EU regions then? The region lock part is moot. The LAN part will eventually force the region lock anyway. Requiring some sort of residency documents instead of just "be present at the lan events" just screws with people who are in process of moving from one reagion or another.
Higher salaries for the best of the best, more prize money - GSL has a larger purse than any other tournament - and significantly more glory.
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Curious how in the American qualifiers, Americans are still called 'foreigners'.
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Alive, Revival, Heart, Apocalypse, TheStC, Alicia, Oz, Crank. Congrats to the 8 NA players who made it into WCS.
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so why is it that american players can't win? we playing the same game..... is it just practice? dayum
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On April 22 2013 04:42 Malpractice.248 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 04:40 FXOkaRmy wrote:
Wooot have a qualifier for NA and only koreans make it. Good job WCS you're really boosting the NA scene! QQ less. Practice more, get involved in a house, live the same life koreans live (or find an opportunity to go there) and youll improve. Whining wont make someone improve, ever. Id rather see the top grand finals be the 32 best players in the world. Regardless of race.
Isn't that what the WCS KR is for though? If the point of WCS is to grow the scene, then grow the scene. If the point of WCS is to show the best competition, have a single, global league. It doesn't make sense to separate into 3 tournaments with WCS EU, WCS KR, and WCS KR#2. Nothing is ever going to grow. I love skilled players, but in the interest of the best players in the world, I'm not happy about some of them (MVP, others) leaving GSL to get easy money.
It sucks, either way. The qualifiers would have been more interesting if 13 koreans had been seeded already, and we had NA's fighting for fewer spots. As is, everything happened as expected anyways.
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"Koreans showed dominance in the American qualifiers with only two upsets by foreigners in the whole tournament." Lol, so surprising.
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As already stated a thousand times...community wants the best players...so we get we best players,
If anybody is interested in a US only tourney...fine...just organise it.
From my point of view there are enough tournaments.
Although i am a bit dissapointed because of invitionals for WCS. Seeing players like Idra,Stephano or Forgg fight their ways through online qualifier. Wow...i would pay a lot for that!!!
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On April 22 2013 08:24 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 07:43 rename wrote:On April 22 2013 07:08 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 06:58 rename wrote:On April 22 2013 06:44 Swords wrote:On April 22 2013 06:30 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 06:11 rasers wrote:On April 22 2013 06:00 Branman wrote:On April 22 2013 05:54 Malpractice.248 wrote:On April 22 2013 05:52 Swords wrote:
[quote]
You've got to be kidding if you think people living paycheck to paycheck or just graduated and have no job can afford to take a year off to play Starcraft 2.
You have to be pretty privileged, or not seen much of the world if you think just anyone out there can take a year off to play starcraft. Do you think anyone living in a team house pays rent? Or do they have sponsors that pay for it? Which is why Koreans can do well. They can move into a teamhouse and train. Americans don't have that opportunity. It's a lot easier to commit a year or two if you have someone paying for your housing and meals (and health insurance). so Koreanas can just randomly get into a Teamhouse OKOKKOKOKOKOKOKO got it :D This. As well as: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Suppy#AchievementsWhat did he win? Online shit. Anyone can do those. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ScarlettShe won online things, too. Bly? Nothing. Opportunities are there. These players "overcame the odds" and got sponsored. Why cant anyone else? Sorry, Im not a fan of handouts. Scarlett got noticed because of her performance at IPL where she beat Bumblebee.Prime and then took a game of Oz in a really close series. The only reason she was able to participate in IPL was because she won a region locked IPL qualifier. She's a perfect example of why region lock is important and good for a developing scene. The only reason any of us know about Scarlett is because she won one of your so called "handouts". Suppy similarly did well in region locked qualifiers in order to get into the NA WCS championships, and won an all foreigner qualifier (with the exception of Dragon, Nara, and Daisy who all play for European teams) to get into ASUS ROG Summer 2012. These results led to him getting picked up by EG. Again, he was able to get make it into the scene via region locked, mostly foreigner qualifiers. Bly has been in the esports scene for years now. He made his name in WCIII and competed in WCG 2009 in China (I assume he made it by qualifying in a region-locked qualifier). He switched to SC2 after completing school and I due to his WCIII skills he was picked up by Acer. He's been around for years and competing on a high level for years, he didn't just come out of nowhere. EDIT: My favorite thing is how you cite Scarlett and Suppy's wins and then if you actually look at it almost all their actual tournament wins come from the region-locked, foreigner only events you've been bashing. This actually contradicts your previous arguement that its harder for foreigners to get into starcraft - since those two players actually received handouts which up&comer koreans dont have. There are also Korea region-locked qualifiers for these events, they get the same handouts, with a much bigger payoff if they make it big in Korea. My main argument though is that having WCS NA region locked would be a good thing for the scene as it allows for new Scarlett's and Suppy's to be exposed, get into team houses, and then do well at events with top Koreans. What bigger payoffs? Also what handouts - are you saying that up&coming koreans get some kind of benefit for playing with bunch of established korean pros in their "region locked" qualifiers - why are you against the same pros playing in NA/EU regions then? The region lock part is moot. The LAN part will eventually force the region lock anyway. Requiring some sort of residency documents instead of just "be present at the lan events" just screws with people who are in process of moving from one reagion or another. Higher salaries for the best of the best, more prize money - GSL has a larger purse than any other tournament - and significantly more glory.
Are you joking? Every EG foreigner earns much more salary, prize money and glory compared to any korean with similar skill level.
PS, im not saying that they dont deserve it - its a good thing they can actually make somewhat of a living without having to be the very best. I just havent seen anything to back up the "everybody from korea can devote 100% on the game EZ " claim.
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EPT
